MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Net migration to UK, 333.000 in 2015, provides more ammo to the Leave campaign
Campaigners wanting Britain to leave the European Union warned that immigration has “spun out of control”, as the new mayor of London launched his campaign for the country to stay in the bloc. Four weeks before the so-called Brexit referendum on June 23, the Office for National Statistics published data putting net migration - the difference between those arriving and leaving Britain - at 333,000 last year. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesThere is a simple answer to these immigrants: VOTE LEAVE!
May 28th, 2016 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Boris for P.M.!
,
May 28th, 2016 - 11:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0DAVID Cameron was last night forced to concede Britain is an “amazing country” capable ...
German MEP says UK could be asked to forego right to block other countries if it wants to be exempt from ever closer union with Europe
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/02/britain-eu-veto-opt-out-david-cameron
Britain could lose its prized EU veto on some subjects if it opts out from the commitment to “ever closer union” in the bloc’s treaties under David Cameron’s reform plans, a senior German MEP said.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/02/britain-eu-veto-opt-out-david-cameron
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Philip Hammond tried to have a senior General court martialled for speaking out over defence cuts, it is claimed.
General Sir Richard Shire said the then Defence Secretary was furious that he had criticised the Government for “hollowing out” the Royal Navy
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/02/britain-eu-veto-opt-out-david-cameron
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EU External Action - UK no longer has an independent foreign policy
EU External Action was set up under the EU Treaties as amended by Lisbon
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/02/britain-eu-veto-opt-out-david-cameron
as with immigration we have no control,
we are run by faceless unelected irremovable twats,
VOTE TO LEAVE this gravy train
The polls have consistently had the remain vote ahead.
May 28th, 2016 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Aren't you am immigrant? @1.
At RAF St. Mawgan in Cornwall, there is apparently a joint UK/France headquarters for joint operations under NATO and also EU command,
May 28th, 2016 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We are being lied to by Euro Camron
@ 3 ElaineB
May 28th, 2016 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”Aren't you am(SIC) immigrant? @1.”
No.
I have no idea which of the polls you are looking at other than the 'bent' ones published by the BBC, The Telegraph 'Special Poll', etc. if you claim remain is leading.
Truly independent polls have consistently run the two camps neck and neck when graphed, with the don't know and won't vote around 14%.
BUT, and there's always a but isn't there, the poll that counts will be along shortly.
You were wrong about Trump, you will be wrong about this as well.
@5 I thought you were an economic immigrant in Uruguay. That's what you told us. You moved there for a better life both financial and health wise. Why would you begrudge other people that opportunity?
May 28th, 2016 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Typically you think if a poll doesn't agree with your point of view it must be bent. Haha. I looked at a poll tracker = one that takes data across the political spectrum.
Is Trump president? How am I wrong about him?
And I haven't indicated how I will vote so how could I be wrong? Immigration is only one issue to consider - a minor one as we have always welcomed immigrants long before we were members of the E.U. It doesn't even factor in my decision.
@6
May 29th, 2016 - 12:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0There is a big difference in the numbers to whom we have traditionally allowed in to the country, we simply cannot carry on at this rate of immigration numbers, there is absolutely no control measures in place, we do not have control of our borders and no self respecting country can allow its borders to collapse.
We will most likely take a short term financial hit, but then the deals will have to be done as we import vastly more from the EU than they buy from us, a punitive trade embargo would hurt them more.
The polls are not telling the truth, they are skewed in favour of remain and Cameron has painted himself as a liar and unfit to govern our country and I think he has finally realised that he has undermined his position as Prime Minister, he will be dead in the water after this referendum whatever the decision is.
VOTE LEAVE
@6
May 29th, 2016 - 06:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0We have indeed allowed immigrants into the Uk, but what the Americans did in the Middle East is now having a marked effect on net migration to this country of ours. The USA decided to change the way that the Middle Eastern countries governed their countries to the detriment of their populations. The end result is that Europe and particularly the UK is going to be flooded with economic migrants. Why do you think we do not have enough nurses and doctors and teachers? and it is not just a question of the government not funding them properly.
@8 I think you will find that allowing healthcare workers from South Asia has kept our NHS functioning for decades. Similarly the Wind Rush provided much needed workers. Immigration is not bad but certainly needs to be controlled. If you think leaving the E.U. is the answer you are being played like a fool.
May 29th, 2016 - 08:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0The real issue you should be concerned about is the economic impact. Anyone relying on a pension should be concerned about the devaluation of the pound and stock market when we are no longer part of the biggest trading block. Most of us will recover but pensioners will be hit badly.
But I am not suggesting people vote one way or another. They should look at all of the consequences either way and make an informed decision. Isolationist mentality in this world has huge consequences. And to think we used to mock the Kirchners.
Mostly I was pointing out the irony of an immigrant complaining about immigrants.
@ 6 ElaineB
May 29th, 2016 - 10:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh dear, I had thought after the sensible question you asked me about ex-pats voting rules that your extended break had resulted in your rehabilitation into the real world, but it seems that was a forlorn hope.
Knock yourself out, I don't care what the likes of you claim for my wife and me.
I do hope and trust that you have a male partner who is capable of dealing with your problems because you can't deal with them yourself, that much is crystal clear.
As for being an immigrant (in relation to the UK, my place of birth) I am an emigrant! Something else you have gotten wrong.
I am an immigrant into Urugu7ay.
As for complaining about the immigrants, please show me where in @ 1 I did that. All I did was state the blindly obvious response to the article but you missed that as well, or are you well and truly back into your old ways of stirring trouble up, it seems so to me?
YOU are being played for a fool (your disparaging comment to @8) as you have clearly swallowed the fear campaign. You keep telling us that you can read things and make your own mind up. I should start practicing what you claim for once, the data pushed by the government are clearly at odds to the economic reality.
Perhaps another extended leave from Mercopress would help settle your nerves, please make it twice as long this time.
Brokenshire tells us why we cannot control immigration instead of thinking of ways to fulfil his Tory promises. Maybe he should have told the Country at the last General Election that he was useless and not worth electing.
May 29th, 2016 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Amazing how these political creatures can break every rule in the book to get us to go to war but won't do a thing to protect living standards for the average working man.
The crafty liberal elite in politics, Civil Service, City of London, media and big business who have plundered the UK for years are in for a shock.
Just to add my bit to this debate. I only speak from personal experience and my conclusions may be dead wrong. I would appreciate other peoples thoughts on the subject.
May 29th, 2016 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0During the boom times about six to eight years ago we were flooded with migrants mostly from Eastern Europe, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria etc. etc. just as the UK is now. When the s..t hit the fan and our economy collapsed it seemed that most of these migrants packed their bags and went looking for greener pastures.
Of course some who had put down roots stayed and are very welcome.
Now from that experience it would seem to me that most migrants within the EC are economic migrants and the way to control that is to have a poor economy. i.e. no jobs, no migrants. So if migration into the UK is a problem and I can see that it is then perhaps you would be better off in both the short term and long term by letting the UK economy stutter for a while.
A simplistic argument I know but just my thoughts on the subject.
kind regards on this beautiful sunny morning.
@10 “I am an immigrant into Urugu7ay” I think you mean Uruguay but, yes, that is what I said. You are an immigrant.
May 29th, 2016 - 11:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Voting to leave the E.U. won't stop immigrants heading to the U.K.. Take Norway, it has a immigration problem and gets told what to do by Brussels but doesn't have much say as it is not a member.
I have not said how I am voting, just putting out some thoughts to consider. I don't expect people to vote how I tell them to vote and if they have a different view that is fine by me.
Go take your pills, old man, you are frothing at the mouth again.
@12 You might be interested to know that more U.K. citizens emigrate than any other European country. I think there are a lot of myths that lead to so many wishing to live in the U.K. . It is not streets paved with gold and all free hand outs. Otherwise why would so many U.K. citizens move away for economic reasons?
Who says we can't control our own borders when we are still capable of a ridiculous fiasco like this?
May 29th, 2016 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/australian-family-faces-deportation-from-scotland-under-new-rules-to-control-immigration/news-story/b5472d5e971a9ccb8a674f4d1c2a4ea4
@ 13 ElaineB
May 29th, 2016 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you continue with the rabid old man approach I will bring up the topic that you fear most, the one you claim you are too young for but starts in the early fifties, the dreaded M word!
And yes, I have cut my fingernails now.
Anyway, if only you would broaden your reading you would discover that the EU trade agreements with countries outside the EU have to be based on the WTO rules to which the UK is also an independent signatory. So the UK will not be out in the cold or be unable to sell it's services abroad.
Perhaps you think that BMW, Mercedes and indeed VW will stop selling cars to their biggest market because the EU idiots won't allow it. YES, the UK is their biggest market for luxury cars! That is just one example, there are plenty more such as RR aero engines and the complete main wings for Airbus products (made in Ruthin).
I really hope that the LEAVE campaign succeeds even though I will probably be dead before it all works through but at least my extended family will be prospering from my vote and those of forward thinking, like minded citizens.
But we will see for ourselves very soon.
@13
May 29th, 2016 - 01:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As I said before the USA has a lot to answer to, I worked in Libya years ago and Gaddaffi as a dictator was extremely good at keeping the various religious factions in line. Where are the immigrants departing from, yes , you guessed Libya.We have the yanks to thank for the rise of Isis and various other religious bodies opposed to our way of life. We should control our borders and let only the few that will make a difference to our economy enter , not every Tom, Dick and Harry without background checks.
@15 You started with the insults first but can't take it when a woman stands up to you. It is your weakness.
May 29th, 2016 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I never said we would not be able to trade if we left the E.U. But we would not have the benefit of preferential trade and intellectual sharing that we have now. We would not be part of a huge trading block but out on our own - back of the queue in some instances. We just would not be as significant.
But the real damage to our economy would be the devaluation of the pound, a falling stock market and reduced pension benefits for chaps like you. It could be far worse than 2008 if you think it through.
We will survive whatever the majority votes for and people like me will not be significantly affected one way or another. I have never been nationalist, isolationist or populist in thinking but clearly there are people no longer living in the U.K. that wish it on the people that stayed and didn't jump ship for a little more spending power.
@16 Yes, the consequences of the Middle East were not thought through and we are dealing with the consequences. We can only hope people think through the very real consequences of leaving the E.U. It won't fix what is wrong with our country.
“Go take your pills, old man, you are frothing at the mouth again”.
May 29th, 2016 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That really advances the discussion. Well done.
Anyway.... putting petty, personal insults aside, leaving the EU will likely cause some short term pain.
In the long run UK society will be stronger, fairer, more cohesive, more democratic and far better offer.
@18 Says who? You? Er. I'll make my own judgement, thanks.
May 29th, 2016 - 02:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 019
May 29th, 2016 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No thanks necessary.
#14
May 29th, 2016 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Home Office have made an own goal on this one. Can you imagine what a chance this has given the SNP . English Tory government threaten expulsion of Australian family against the wishes of the Scottish people. I reckon this will be quietly kicked into the long grass !
Meanwhile immigrants pour in. How many more Romanian/Bulgarian street corner accordion players or sellers of the Big Issue do we need ?
@ 19 ElaineB
May 29th, 2016 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, dear, it's always the man to a feminist.
I don't think you know what it is to be a real women in the real world, you are far too detached in the First Class world you travel in.
VOTE LEAVE!
@22 Jealous much. Why do you let my success neuter you?
May 29th, 2016 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You did leave!
No disrespect but ??
May 29th, 2016 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the more immigrant doctors and nurses we have, the less British trained doctors and nurses we have,
one cant keep throwing immigrants into our faces time and time again,
without the immigrants ?? they built this country,
REALLY.
so what were the British people doing all this time that the immigrants were building this country, sitting their bums,
this is used just as an excuse to justify largo amounts of immigrants by the governments who have no answer or power to stop them,
we do not want to ban all immigrants, all we want is a sensible system of control,
so we decide who comes in or not, is this so hard for others to understand,
we want control of our own country to make our own laws is this so wrong.
perhaps if we looked after our own people better, they would not have left Britain for better pastures,
and do you realise every doctor or other skilled person, we are in fact, depriving that country of its own professionals, and the people suffer, is that fair,
we are not saying they cant come,
we are saying that it must be controlled.
just my humble opinion.
@24 It is impossible to train enough British doctors. We started recruiting (plundering) abroad when demand outstripped the ability to produce enough of our own. You make a fair point about depriving other countries of their trained doctors and it has been much debated. BUT they are not kidnapped and forced to the U.K., they make the choice for a better standard of living, just as people move abroad for a better standard of living on a U.K. pension.
May 29th, 2016 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you saying we should never recruit abroad or that U.K. citizens should not be allowed to live and work abroad? How are you going to stop people?
I don't know who 'we want' refers to or 'our own people' - perhaps you could qualify what you mean.
Brexitismo is Britain's answer to Malvinismo.
May 29th, 2016 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you saying we should never recruit abroad or that U.K. citizens should not be allowed to live and work abroad? How are you going to stop people
May 29th, 2016 - 10:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0my blog was self evident,
we the British people want to control who comes here,
as re[ported, we don't want to stop immigration,
did you read that bit,
yes we will at times want to recruit abroad, just as any other country, as stated, we the British people want to control who comes here,
you seem to object to this,
I don't know who 'we want' refers to or 'our own people'
WE the British people, unless one wants to get technical and wants precise figures,
or perhaps you will accept [me] that's what I want,
and I think you will find that millions of British people want to control immigration,
its that simple,
or am I and millions wrong, perhaps some think we should just let in millions and millions, but the time will come when even you will say, enough is enough.
does this help
The figures show there was more immigration from outside the EU than inside it last year. Cameron promised to get the numbers below 100,000 but 277,000 non-EU citizens moved to the UK, the government was not forced to allow any of them. What makes you think anything will change if Britain leaves? The fact is the government doesn't want to lower immigration, it's good for the economy even if it's bad for ordinary people.
May 30th, 2016 - 01:35 am - Link - Report abuse 027
May 30th, 2016 - 08:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0I agree with you Briton.
UK Government has cut budget for NHS to train our own nurses and about 1 in 10 of our medical school places go to foreigners. Whether all of the foreign doctors and nurses we recruit are of sufficient standard in terms of expertise and language skills is debatable. Everything seems to be done on the cheap from the NHS to the armed forces. Protecting the City of London, immigration and Foreign aid seem to be the only things that matter to David Cameron and George Osborne. Next general election is going to be interesting.
@27 I am a British person and you don't speak for me. So why not be bold and instead of writing 'we', own your words.
May 30th, 2016 - 08:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0@26 It is certainly not far of Kirchnerism ideals. Blame the foreigners. Isolationism. Nationalism. It won't solve the problems. It is idealism over realism.
@29 The NHS costs us £2 billion each week. 9 out of 10 medical students in our universities are British. The overseas students bring in much needed cash to all our universities whatever they study. You are not making sense with your point.
This 'blame foreigners for everything' is nothing to do with staying in or leaving the E.U. it is just another chance for people to air their prejudices. It is UKIP all over again. Fortunately they did not represent the majority.
30
May 30th, 2016 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0There are plenty of British born candidates for those medical school places. UK should properly manage and finance its universities. I would rather we trained our own people rather than foreigners.
No party represented a majority at the last election so your point about UKIP is correct but not really relevant. The main point about UKIP and the last election is that large number of votes UKIP amassed and the discredited first past the post system which denied appropriate representation in Parliament.
I suspect a substantial amount of UK public perhaps even a majority are against further mass immigration. Perhaps we should have another referendum to confirm or otherwise.
We all have the right to air our opinions. To try and close down debate with petty comments because you disagree with another's views isn't really acceptable.
Listening to Cameron sharing a platform with that ISIS supporting London Mayor. Strange world.
It's 10.58 30th May.
@29 Are you volunteering to pay more tax so things aren't done 'on the cheap'? The fees foreign students pay have been subsidising the home students for years. Recruiting doctors and nurses abroad means we don't have to pay to train them. People complain but no one is willing to pay more to change things.
May 30th, 2016 - 10:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0The government uses the EU as a scapegoat and has done for years. It's similar to how the Latin American countries blame all their problems on the US.
When the A8 countries joined the EU in 2004 the existing members were allowed to apply restrictions to free movement for a period of time, but the UK government chose not to (the other EU countries except Sweden and Ireland did have the restriction). So the British government decided to let people in at a time when hardly anyone else was, with the predictable result.
They've been encouraging immigration, not trying to stop it.
@32
May 30th, 2016 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0And now we have the irony of a lady called Patel in charge of the “They come over here ....” department.
@31 “I would rather we trained our own people rather than foreigners. ”
May 30th, 2016 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0YOU do not train anyone. Overseas students PAY universities to learn. Our Universities would not survive without the subsidies from overseas students.
“Listening to Cameron sharing a platform with that ISIS supporting London Mayor. Strange world.”
You are dangerously stupid if you believe that.
The problem with the referendum is that it has been hijacked by the racists bigots like you, Little Englander. Leaving the E.U. will not stop immigration, though the bigots would have you believe it. We had mass immigration before we were part of the E.U.
@32 You are, of course, right. TB encouraged immigration because there are simply not enough people paying into the system to cover the outgoings. Immigrants contribute to our economy. They are not the problem.
The real debate should be about the economic consequences of staying or leaving.
@34
May 30th, 2016 - 10:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The real debate should be about the economic consequences of staying or leaving.”
That and the chimera of sovereignity in the modern world.
@35 Yes.
May 30th, 2016 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse 034
May 30th, 2016 - 11:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are losing the debate so you resort to your usual standard ignorant abuse.
I could call you nasty names but that would simply descend to your level.
Cameron did accuse The Mayor of London of sharing a platform with ISIS sympathisers, suggesting he had terrorist sympathies.
Cameron is sharing a platform with the Mayor of London.
If you don't believe these two facts, I can't help you.
Immigration can be controlled.
Mass immigration can be stopped.
I am not a bigot or a racist but I believe the UK has had sufficient immigration and a system like that employed by say Australia would serve the Country better.
Let's have a referendum and see what the majority believe.
There are no serious studies that establish without question that immigrants benefit the UK. I dont believe they have been of benefit and have put unacceptable strain on public services and divided society. Leaving the EU will not end immigration but it will take away the automatic right for millions of people in the EU to relocate to the UK. Should Turkey join the position would quickly become chaotic.
Remain is certainly in the lead and has scored well enlisting foreigners to tell us what will happen to our economy if we leave. If we do vote to leave next month, there will be an initial shack and the share market will suffer. But remember the rules are that nothing happens for a period of 2 years to allow negotiations to take place. I would expect markets to stabilise as we gradually start to disengage, renegotiate and seek new opportunities around the World.
It's 11.59 30th May.
@ 23 ElaineB
May 30th, 2016 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Why do you let my success neuter you?”
I wasn't aware of any success given the fact that we know very little about you.
I do know this much: when I first started reading your posts (was it 3 or 4 years ago?) I found them insightful and of help in me understanding LatAm.
Your posts are now bitter, without any real intelligence and when people disagree with you are full of insults and invective. What is it with the confusion on 'we'. Consider it a collective, one which the majority subscribe to. If you are not part of the collective mind then say so but don't try and bully others into accepting the nonsense that Camoron, Osborne and the rest of the moneyed elite who just do not understand the devastation that mass immigrant population have caused in many areas.
I have still to find an independent poll where remain is clearly leading. Yes, they have a 2% lead in most polls which frankly is within the margin of error. Don't overlook that the vast majority of these polls are done using a landline phone which immediately vetoes the wished of those without a LL phone, many preferring cell phones or no phone at all ! Do the wishes of these people not count?
@37 Look up the meaning of 'bigot' and it will describe you. It isn't an insult but a fact.
May 30th, 2016 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0“There are no serious studies that establish without question that immigrants benefit the UK. I dont believe they have been of benefit and have put unacceptable strain on public services and divided society.” No SERIOUS studies? So there are studies but you don't believe them because they don't support your prejudices.
“Remain is certainly in the lead and has scored well enlisting foreigners to tell us what will happen to our economy if we leave” Yes, Remain is in the lead in polls, thus the voice of the majority. It is not just 'foreigners' supporting the Remain campaign, that is just your prejudiced view.
@38 You are the one who refers to my class of travel; envy much. You bring it up all the time. Eats at you, doesn't it?
It is true you know very little about me but it didn't stop you searching the internet trying to find me did it? How revolting is that? You even found a picture of someone you thought was me and threw insults at the poor woman's appearance. You have a sick mind. Who but some old pervert would do that?
You decided not to like me when I challenged some of your statements. You don't like when women do that, do you? Your own posts have become more bitter over the years as you have become increasingly disillusioned with your life as an immigrant in Uruguay. That is the truth of it.
Earlier you said “I have no idea which of the polls you are looking at other than the 'bent' ones published by the BBC, The Telegraph 'Special Poll', etc. if you claim remain is leading. Truly independent polls have consistently run the two camps neck and neck”
Now you say….“I have still to find an independent poll where remain is clearly leading. Yes, they have a 2% lead in most polls” Yes, a lead, not 'neck and neck'. I taught you something.
@ 39 ElaineB
May 30th, 2016 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Yes, a lead, not 'neck and neck'. I taught you something.”
By invitation (I was sought out for my knowledge and experience) I used to lecture on statistics at a Midlands University.
Clearly you know very little about 'margin of error' as related to polls. Any result that is so close to the other function as to fall within the margin of error is considered to be 'neck and neck'.
Try pulling back from the Feminist movement and join the rest of us in the real world. Your bluster does nothing to 'prove' your point which in most cases (according to you) is simply an opinion. My comment was based on judging the facts of the matter, I cannot be held responsible for your lack of knowledge.
So you think that the views of people without landline phones or only cell phones don't count? I am not surprised by that.
@40 Well you claim to be a lot of things but have proved nothing so I don't believe you. Based on your posts here I can't imagine anyone would seek out your 'knowledge and experience' on anything. You are just a blustering old fool full of your own self-importance. But worse than that you have a really nasty, perverted trait of trying to trash any woman who disagrees with you. It exposes you.
May 30th, 2016 - 01:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You don't live in the real world, You live in the past. You are the past. But it is good to know you are still learning from me. Now you know you are an immigrant and that the polls are not 'neck and neck'. Independent poll trackers have a much wider margin in favour of Remain. How did you miss that with all your 'knowledge and experience'?
39
May 30th, 2016 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only person here, showing intolerance to others views is you.
I repeat I am not a bigot and I am not a racist either.
In any event your views about me are of no concern to me whatsoever.
I merely want the best for my children, my fellow Countrymen and my Country.
There was one study conducted by a German fellow, widely quoted by the BBC, who concluded immigrants were of benefit to the UK but he failed to consider or take account of the additional costs imposed on local services and housing.
Foreigners have rarely intervened in UK General Elections and have tended to respect our process. In the case of this referendum however we have witnessed interventions from Obama, the incompetent Frenchwoman heading up the IMF, an Irishman from the UN refugee council, the Canadian Governor of the BoE and various European Presidents and Prime Ministers. Mrs Merkel is due to issue some threats later this week.
You always frame my opinions as prejudice ....but in doing so merely betray your own prejudice.
It is 14.19 on 30th May.
@42 “I am not a bigot and I am not a racist either” You are. You really are. Did you look up the meaning of bigot?
May 30th, 2016 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I merely want the best for my children, my fellow Countrymen and my Country”
I am British and care about my country but don't agree with you. You have just one vote like everyone else. It is just your opinion it doesn't mean you care more than people that don't agree with you.
You said @18 “In the long run UK society will be stronger, fairer, more cohesive, more democratic and far better offer.” How exactly will it be better? I have heard these 'milk and honey' delusional claims from the Leave campaigners but when asked exactly how the country will be better off they cannot come up with facts, just a great unknown. You want to blame everything that is wrong with the country on foreigners just like CFK and her Kirchnerists did. Do you realise that?
43
May 30th, 2016 - 02:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know what a racist is and I am not a racist.
I know what a bigot is and I am not a bigot.
If anybody here is a bigot it is you. You refuse to accept any opinions other than your own and resort to pettiness and abuse when people disagree with you.
“You have just one vote like everyone else” - wow ....thanks for letting me know.
“It is just your opinion” - yeah ...that's right.
“It doesn't mean you care more than people who don't agree with you” - where did I say it did?
“You want to blame everything that is wrong with the country on foreigners” - you have just made that up as well. Do you realise that?
Cameron has just hugged the Mayor of London. That's nice.
@44 On the contrary, I accept you have a different opinion to me. I just don't accept your opinion is more valid.
May 30th, 2016 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You can't come up with any facts to support your claim that the U.K. will be better if we left the E.U. You see, that is the problem. No facts just blame the foreigners.
Now read back from the start of this thread and see who started insulting first. Clue: It wasn't me.
@45
May 30th, 2016 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You can't come up with any facts to support your claim that the U.K. will be better if we left the E.U. ”
How would you know that? Discussions to date have been name calling, mostly from you. Would it be the case that your opinion is formed and any leave justification is to be dismissed whatever its merits? Sounds like it.
In any event you haven't come up with any facts to support your claim that the UK would be better off remaining in the EU.
“just blame the foreigners.”
Not correct. Just part of your imagination to fit your twisted narrative.
How about YOU read through our exchanges and see who started the name calling and who continued to insult throughout.
17.23 30th May.
@46 Clearly you cannot make a case for leaving the E.U. beyond blaming foreigners and distraction. You would have made a fine Kirchnerite.
May 30th, 2016 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 047
May 30th, 2016 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Clearly you can't make a case to stay beyond insulting and name calling.
As for blaming foreigners it's all in your mind, get over yourself.
Distraction? Would that be your Kirchner line?
18.01 30th May
And so as a democracy we have to accept that others have their own opinions,
May 30th, 2016 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0some will let millions in and think they are in the right,
others want to control immigration,
you cannot argue against those who would open the door for all,
come 23rd June we will all find out if we are in or out,
then things will change forever.
Elaine B has tried to make the referendum about the economy.
May 30th, 2016 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The referendum isn't about the economy its about Sovereignty. The ability to make our own decisions for better or worse. Elaines issue about Doctors & Nurses would not be affected by an out vote at all. An Austrailian style points based system would enable us to recruit however many we require from wherever we require them.
Elaine says we couldn't possibly train enough of our own Dr's or Nurses - why not Elaine we managed perfectly well before we joined the EU ?
Elaine doesn't want to influence any ones vote but if you are thinking of brexit you are “delusional, racist and a bigot.”
Elaine is only concerned for your pensions because your much safer in the EU. Really, tell that to the Greeks who are not only in the EU but also the Eurozone. What is happening to their pensions Elaine ?
Your safer in the EU. Really I thought Paris and Brussells were at the heart of the EU didn't seem to keep them very safe did it ?
Were much better off together - if your happy with 45% youth unemployment- ask Spain ?
Mrs Merkel & Mr Hollande wants Britain to remain in the EU, so much so that when Cameron asked for next to nothing, they wouldn't even give him that.
Obama, IMF, Merkel, Hollande couldn't give a toss about Britain - they are bricking it about the potential collapse of the EU project. Remember they wet themselves when there was talk of Greece exiting let alone GB. Money markets like stability & don't like change.
EU promises - they haven't even lasted till the referendum - “David you might need to surrender your vetow in exchange for opting out of ever closer union” - well fancy that !
Elaine are you sure your not on the EU gravy train yourself ?
,Why one should get out,
May 30th, 2016 - 11:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0its corrupt
has not been signed of in decades
has an unelected president that cannot be voted out
has an unelected government, that cannot b e voted out
interferes with every bit of our daily lives
brainwashes people,
one has been lied to by our government over immigration
lies about what will happen
they make most of our laws, that we cannot change
one does not want a united states of Europe run by unelected people who cannot be thrown out,
its not the biggest trading block=in fact its getting smaller
Europe has not grown in production for years
Europe has NOT saved us from conflict, NATO has
we now do 47% with Europe [ but some of this goes on to other countries outside of the EU
53% with the rest of the world
the majority want our own elected British government
with British laws , rights and courts,
you cannot change it from the inside, the government have tried for over 70 years and failed,
they want to control banks , pensions , benefits Taxes
they also want a European military , destroying ours.
Our government does less and less, so the EU can slowly do more and more with our money,
the people are being systemically bit by bit sold and handed over to a foreign government without the consent of the British people.
P/s
Don’t forget that on the 23-3-2017
After this date, the terms of the Lisbon treaty kick in,
anyone who criticises the EU is liable to arrest,
and don’t forget that under the terms of the treaty we lose the right to a trail by jury, so you can be arrested and jailed ,
Do you want to remain in a dictatorial Europe.
Vote leave
Oh, dear, 'McGregor'. What a lot of random nonsense. Do you need me to tell you where you left the shed key?
May 31st, 2016 - 07:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 41 Saint ElaineB : lovely that, and SO inappropriate! :o)
May 31st, 2016 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Reverting to insults then, no change there.
Not going too well for you on here is it. Posters dissenting from the saintly word no less.
I think I was correct all along about your health and if I wasn't I will soon be. TIP: ALL 'intact' women, still living, have to undergo the menopause. Given your erratic behavior of late I pity your partner, he or she is going to have a hell of a time with the accent on HELL.
Have a bad day, you deserve one.
@53 What is your obsession with the menopause? I have never heard any man talk about it as much as you do. Men have a menopause too when they develop depression, loss of sex drive, erectile dysfunction and other physical and emotional problems. That is probably why you are a senile piss-dribbling old man with an unhealthy interest in my personal life. Your poor beaten-down wife is the one to be pitied having to endure a bombastic old prick like you every day.
May 31st, 2016 - 12:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My live is fucking fantastic - no need for you to worry, you old pervert.
Far be it for me to intercede BUT maybe it would be more productive discussing the topic...Net migration to UK, 333.000 in 2015, provides more ammo to the Leave campaign
May 31st, 2016 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@55 Indeed it does but leaving will not solve the problem.
May 31st, 2016 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 52 & @56
May 31st, 2016 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Random noise” Elaine - you regard a sensible immigration policy, the fact the Greece is on its knees trying to stay in the Euro, 45% Youth unemployment in Spain & elsewhere, bombs going off in Paris & Brussels, the potential loss of Britains vetoes as “random noise”........... no wonder you want to vote to Remain - your mad.
Leaving WILL solve that problem because we would be free to adopt the Austrailian points based system. It DOES work for the Austrailians !!!
Why you worried about me shed - your not thinking lf housing another migrant in there are you ?
@57 I said random nonsense not noise. Your post was full of unconnected drivel.
May 31st, 2016 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have nothing against a sensible immigration policy and we take far less than other European countries as it is.
We are not in the Euro.
Youth unemployment is Spain is high whilst ours remains low and we are in the EU. Explain how it will suddenly change if we stay in. If anything it proves we can retain low unemployment whilst remaining. The blow to our economy and predicted return to 2008-like recession if we leave will increase unemployment.
Leaving the EU will not stop the boats arriving at our shores and the illegals getting in as they do now. In fact, I am pretty sure the French will assist more to get to us once we are no longer in the same club as them. They won't feel so inclined to keep them in France.
I have never said I am voting to remain - I am trying to get someone devoted to leaving to give a coherent reason to do so that is not based on isolationism and a whole lot of unknown.
@ 54 Saint ElaineB
May 31st, 2016 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Methinks I hit a nerve.
Don't worry about my wife she always reads your posts and says she would love to meet you if only to encourage you to see a doctor.
I don't care whether you vote or what you vote if you do. One thing is for certain you cannot see the wood for the trees about the issues and are so frightened of the 'unknown' in leaving that you WILL vote remain.
@59 Creepy ChrisR
May 31st, 2016 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah, yeah, I am sure your beaten-down wife agrees with everything you say. Of course, we only have your worthless word for it.
Oh but you care so much about what I think and say to an obsessional level. It is down right creepy the way you try to obtain information about my personal life. Creepy Chris the Pervert. That is SO appropriate. Since you love nick-names I'll make sure that one sticks to you.
You will never know how I vote. Never. You will assume all kinds of nonsense as you obsess over me but you can never know.
Still not one Leave supporter can give a coherent reason beyond their bigoted views.
@ 60
May 31st, 2016 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It would be an utter waste for anybody to try and educate you about anything as you always have your own mind made up DESPITE the facts.
@61
May 31st, 2016 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I do have a mind of my own. Imagine that. A woman with her own opinions. You just can't stand that I won't agree with you just because you tell me to.
You cannot make a case for leaving the EU. You are not intelligent enough.
@ 62
May 31st, 2016 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Loads of people have posted coherent reasons for leaving the EU - you have reacted by labelling them bigots. If they mention the word Migrant you react like you have been hit with a cattle prod............I wonder why
@63 Chris R he is the only immigrant posting in this thread as far as I know. But, so what? What is the relevance?
May 31st, 2016 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, no one has posted coherent reasons for leaving the EU in this thread. There must be some good reasons but not one of you seems able to articulate them.
@64 Thought Chris R was an Emigrant from UK....... but I didn't mention him in my post....are you getting a bit obsessed ?
May 31st, 2016 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes plenty of reasons for leaving EU - all coherent. Just you can't or won't acknowledge them. As the prison governor in Cool Hand Luke says “Some men you just can't reach”
To me you seem overly & unecessarily protective of Migrants, over reacting by instantaneously labelling any one for Brexit as a bigot amongst other things - theres usually a reason for this type of kneejerk response ?
So what are the good reasons to stay...?
May 31st, 2016 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Trade...?
Plenty of countries to trade with...
Easy travel in Europe...?
Never been a problem travelling through Europe before the EU...
The right to live anywhere in Europe...?
99% of Brits living in the UK don't want to live in Continental Europe....
The right to work anywhere in Europe...
99% of Brits living in the UK don't want to work on the Continent...
Defence...?
UK is an Island....
I've run out of reasons for staying....
Some one help me out....
Anyone care to list the negative impact of the EU on the UK...?
Ha, ha. I've just found out that the slogan for the party that wants to leave is, “We want our country back”. Now where have we heard that before? And not only has this party adopted this slogan in the absence of an elected black president it has adopted it in the absence of any president or other elected officer. Well done you British.
Jun 01st, 2016 - 02:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0The President of the US has issued a direct order that you British are to remain in the EU and we expect you to follow orders. But, from the point of view of the US national interest, this is unfortunate. A British exit would certainly prompt the US to leave NATO sooner that it otherwise might.
#67
Jun 01st, 2016 - 08:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0HA, ha . The Falklands will still be British in 25 years time.
With your anti-NATO stance, I presume you are employed by RT.
@65 I am really not sure what you are trying to imply and don't have the balls to say directly. If you are trying to imply I am an immigrant I will reiterate that the only contributor to this thread living as an immigrant (in Uruguay) is ChrisR. He agreed he is an immigrant and he is not ashamed of it. If I were an immigrant in the UK I would not be hiding it. You infer that it is something to be ashamed of. Why is that? Is that your prejudice talking? Your small-minded bigoted views? What have you against people living in other countries? Maybe you could explain it to ChrisR and educate him.
Jun 01st, 2016 - 09:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 65 McGregor
Jun 01st, 2016 - 10:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0I admire your tenacity, sir!
Saint Elaine has been increasingly erratic, compared to her previous record of posting, for some months now.
I used to joke with her and she reacted how any good humoured women would but not now, alas.
If it wasn't so pitiful to see it would be amusing but if she isn't careful she will turn into an Anglo Hepatia and that would be tragic.
Luckily we have in Isolde a well balanced, worldly wise woman. I love reading her posts and she always manages to put the argies down in a very effective way without invoking feminism, she is too much of a successful women to need that crutch.
that is not based on isolationism .
Jun 01st, 2016 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Fact= Britain has never been an isolationist country,
unless one can prove different,
most are confused with Europe and Europe,
in fact there are TWO ,
one is EUROPE,
the second one is the European Union,
we don't want to pull out of Europe,
we want out of the European Union, this is a political union heading head on towards a united states of Europe in time,
we [Britain] will still trade with European nations, we will still buy cars , cheese , wine , bacon and everything else that we but right now, Britain will still export to Europe, nothing will change unless they wish it too,
people are confused, and this is what the Remainians want, for confusion helps them ,
the Lisbon treaty that is being played out and he 5 presidents treaty states quite clearly what Junker and his gang want,
control of all pensions , banks , trade , military , benefits , taxes or all sorts,
the European government is unelected and totally irremovable,
and so is the European president,
Did any of you vote him or them in, no you did not,
so even if one is still on the fence,
would you rather live under a freely elected government that you vote for, and thus if you don't like them, you can vote out at the next election,
with the EU,
you cannot elect them, democracy or dictatorship,
the EU already has control over most things we take for granted,
they already have the borderless wild lands, Euros , flag , national anthem ,
passports , car licences ,
and they wont stop until they get it all,
last but not least,
Name me one thing that Europe can do for the British people,
that the British government cannot do,
and if the British government , cannot or will not do, then there is something very badly wrong with the government.
just my opinion,
Vote Leave please.
@70 Creepy ChrisR the Pervert,
Jun 01st, 2016 - 01:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I remember Isolde telling you off about your behaviour towards me. You lost your temper when I challenged you on your love of guns. Let's face it, you just cannot stand when a woman disagrees with you. You especially deteriorated when you realised I am successful unlike you.
Your disgusting language and silly name calling has increased with your age and disillusionment with life as an immigrant in Uruguay.
Remember you were the one who tried to find me in real life - just so you could make disparaging remarks about my appearance. What kind of a pervert would do that? Someone seriously deranged. Or senile. You didn't find me because I don't use my real name on line - only an idiot would do that. But the poor woman you decided was me was subjected to revoltingly rude remarks about her appearance.
You started the insults in this thread. You are a pathetic old man. You don't have much time left so why not take a good look at yourself before all anyone remembers you as it a bitter, nasty old man.
@ 72 ElaineB
Jun 01st, 2016 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You started the insults in this thread.”
Please show me where.
We give
Jun 03rd, 2016 - 11:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0they take,
they order, we obey,
they cut the bread, we get he crumbs,
David sweats on SKY we all get to laugh ,
vote leave please.
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