MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
One in three Argentines, 8.8 million live in poverty and 1.7 million are indigent
Nearly one-third of Argentina’s population lives in poverty, the government said on Wednesday in the first official poverty data published in three years, underscoring the difficulty of reaching President Mauricio Macri’s stated “zero poverty” goal. The ranks of the poor surveyed in Argentina totaled 8.8 million people, or 32.2% of the population in 31 urban areas surveyed. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesTMBOA is so pleased!
Sep 29th, 2016 - 10:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0She should be shot for this alone.
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell Stink and Nostrils, now you know. Or, if you are at 65 Brook Street or safe in Western Canada, maybe you don't? Jajajajaja Juuuuuup! and other nonsensical RG expressions
Sep 29th, 2016 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse -1Anyone that has visited the Dark Country will already have a good handle on these statistics already. Now the RG government has published the truth for all to see?
http://townhall.com/columnists/davidlimbaugh/2016/08/19/obama-the-worst-president-ever-except-maybe-for-hillary-n2207204
Sep 29th, 2016 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Finally we have a government that has the guts to measure poverty. Peronism, that fills its mouth talking about the poor, has always avoided the figures, and statistics, of poverty because the reality is that it needs the poor to use them.
Sep 29th, 2016 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As a joke I would like to remind all of us that CFK once said that “Argentina had less poor than Germany”. She also said that “the argentine international reserves” were higher than international reserves of both, Canada and Australia.
Argie Turnip at (4)
Sep 29th, 2016 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just to expose... (once again) your total ignorance about all things Argentine, I ask you kindly to link us to any place in the universe where we can see, read or hear Mme Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner saying that...: ”Argentina had less poor than Germany”....
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1799970-en-la-argentina-hay-menos-pobreza-que-en-dinamarca-segun-cristina-kirchner
Sep 29th, 2016 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1799970-en-la-argentina-hay-menos-pobreza-que-en-dinamarca-segun-cristina-kirchner
Enjoy.....
That Argentina is one rather large villa miseria should be obvious to anyone who lives here.
Sep 29th, 2016 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For those who may wish to review the Kirchner lies and silliness in English
2015: 'Argentina is home to poverty levels “below 5 percent, and 1 percent severe poverty,” President Cristina Kirchner argued on Monday in a speech before the UN Food and Agriculture Office (FAO) in Rome.'
https://panampost.com/panam-staff/2015/06/08/kirchner-argentina-has-lower-poverty-levels-than-norway/
Even the leftist The Guardian recognised the Kirchner lies
“President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner’s suggestion that Argentina’s poverty rate has been cut to less than 5% rings false with experts and locals alike...”
https://panampost.com/panam-staff/2015/06/08/kirchner-argentina-has-lower-poverty-levels-than-norway/
----
“Kirchner Lives in a Fool’s Paradise ”
https://panampost.com/panam-staff/2015/06/08/kirchner-argentina-has-lower-poverty-levels-than-norway/
Brainwashed Argie Turnip at (6)
Sep 29th, 2016 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hereby, the full transcription, in writing and video of Mme. Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, at the FAO conference 08/06/15...:
http://www.cfkargentina.com/cristina-kirchner-expuso-ante-la-39a-conferencia-de-la-organizacion-de-las-naciones-unidas-para-la-alimentacion-y-la-agricultura-fao/
As you can read and hear with those little brainwashed ears and eyes of you, Mme. Kirchner does NOT mention Denmark..., Germany..., Norway... nor any other European Country in ANY part of her speech...
Having said the above..., I fully subscribed then..., as I do now that...:
”President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner’s suggestion that Argentina’s poverty rate had been cut to less than 5% rang false with experts and locals alike...”
Inform yourself... Turnip!
Oops! Looks like you touched a raw nerve with old man Think!
Sep 29th, 2016 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bear in mind any criticism of his daaaaaahrling Cristina has him foaming at tbe mouth. Keep it up and no doubt he will have a seizure.
We always welcome new clients like him down here.
Chuckle chuckle..
I love it when he calls people Turnips (Argie term for Pricks)
Brainwashed Argie Turnip at (6)
Sep 29th, 2016 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I just want t made this poin clear for you...
Even if I FULLY DISAGREE with the applicability of the World Bank's International Poverty Treshold chosen by Mme. Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner for her 2015 FAO speech.... it does not make her words untrue...:
http://blogs.worldbank.org/developmenttalk/international-poverty-line-has-just-been-raised-190-day-global-poverty-basically-unchanged-how-even
Applying (wrongly, in this Patagonian dweller humble opinion) the 2015 World Bank's International Poverty Treshold of 1.90 U$S per person per day, Ms. Akirchnerr's Argentinean poverty percent of ~5% was quite correct...:
http://blogs.worldbank.org/developmenttalk/international-poverty-line-has-just-been-raised-190-day-global-poverty-basically-unchanged-how-even
Mas claro..., echale agua....
Nice try Think -----Fail! That isnt the definition. Its household income less than 50% of the median.
Sep 29th, 2016 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The old bat was misinformed… . or Lying more likely .
There is massive poverty in Argentina. The railway yards in BA, an utter disgrace. Whilst she got pumped full of Botox in the Pink Palace arranging opponents murders.
Geeeeeeeee.....
Sep 29th, 2016 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0An Anglo Turnip honouring an Anglo Nanny Murderer pretends to teach me about statistical methodology!
The *“household income less than 50% of the median”* he mentions is just one of the many poverty treshholds used by the EU and the OECD...
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/EU_statistics_on_income_and_living_conditions_(EU-SILC)_methodology_-_monetary_poverty
Most of the rest of the World uses the World's Bank $ 1,90 & $ 3,10 per Capita / per Day povsrty gap treshholds...
ALL OF THEM equaly imprecise..., potentially misleading... and politically manipulable...
Geeeeee… .
Sep 29th, 2016 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argie Turnip Think scrabbling about desperately blinking at real statistics that he can't believe through his State supplied rose tinted specs.
She's gone Think, she's been rumbled Think, she's not coming back.
She dragged your country down, lied cheated, falsified figures to hoodwink the proles. But you seem like an intelligent person.
Have you been brainwashed or are they still giving you bungs?
Chuckle chuckle..
Around 2014 the Kirchner government was saying poverty in Argentina was about 4.7 percent.
Sep 29th, 2016 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For the same year, the Kirchnerist-linked “Equis” agency was reporting poverty here at about 14 percent, or about three times what the Kirchner government was reporting.
For the same time, the Observatorio de la Deuda Social Argentina at the Universidad Católica Argentina (ODSA-UCA), placed the poverty percentages here at between 25.6% and 27.5%, between 5.5 and 5.9 times what the Kirchner government was reporting.
For the Centro de Investigaciones Participativas en Políticas Económicas y Sociales, for the same time, the poverty rate was estimated at 26.4%
For the same period, the Observatorio de la CGT put the poverty rate at 30.1%, or about 6.4 times as much as the Kirchner government numbers.
For the same time, the Instituto Pensamiento y Políticas Públicas calculated the poverty rate at 36.5 percent, or about 7.8 times as much as the Kirchner government rate.
During this time, the Kirchner government attempted to prosecute and fine anyone here who published economic statistics that differed from those approved by the Kirchner government.
To those in here that are not monolingual Turnips..., can read a graph...and know how to compare apples with apples and pears with pears...
Sep 30th, 2016 - 02:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://chequeado.com/el-explicador/como-evoluciono-la-pobreza-segun-estas-fuentes-alternativas-al-indec/
I rest me case...
The Macri administration deserves credit for publishing statistics about poverty in Argentina.
Sep 30th, 2016 - 04:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Now, Macri has said he will only accept responsibility for poverty from now on.
He is not taking responsibility for the last nine months (who would have been in charge--aliens from the other Galaxy?), during which poverty increased by 1.4 million people as recently reported by the UCA’s Social Debt Observatory.
Beyond the statistics, the citizens feel every day the effects of the aggressive re-distribution of wealth towards a small sector of society currently taking place in Argentina.
Purchase power keeps falling, unemployment increases, small and medium-size enterprises slow down or close doors as a result of increased imports.
Meanwhile, Macri, who promised “poverty zero” for Argentina during his election campaign, has been increasingly qualifying that goal, now saying it will not be reached during his four-year term. And before any Macri cheerleader berates me for believing Macri's folish promises, let me say I did not believe it--but many Argentine citizens did believe it and voted for him on this statement that, at the very least, showed intention to reduce poverty--not to increase it.
Oh, please, Shrinkbrain who fled Chubut many years ago, the 2015 World Bank's International Poverty Treshold of US$ 1.90 per person per day added up to less than 20 pesos/day = 1 kg pancitos + 2 litros de agua.
Sep 30th, 2016 - 04:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0The US$ 1.90 per person per day is what you needed if you lived in a subsaharan country.
In Argentina, according to the kirchnerista controlled INDEC all you needed in 2012 was 6 AR$ a day, calculated like this:
1 kg of potatoes .... 11 pesos
1 liter of milk ......... 8 pesos
0,7 kg of verduras . 14 pesos
-------------------------------
Total ....................... 6 pesos
2012.09.07: Argentina’s dubious poverty line: The six-peso diet http://www.economist.com/node/21562238
If you lived here, you would know.
2011.03 Una familia tipo necesitó $2.219 para no caer en la pobreza [1]
2011.07 Para no ser pobre hay que percibir más de $ 1.314 por persona [2]
2012.09 Según el INDEC, con 13 pesos al día alcanza para dejar de ser pobre [3]
2013.04 ACU Social Observatory: Eleven million Argentines live in poverty conditions [4]
2013.12 Por cada punto que la inflación sube, 5.000 personas caen en la pobreza en Gran Mendoza [5]
2014.05 CTA: 7 mio. (18.8%) under the poverty line, 1.7 mio. (4.2%) in extreme poverty [6]
2014.07 Over 30% of Argentine children below poverty line [7]
[1] http://www.economist.com/node/21562238
[2] http://www.economist.com/node/21562238
[3] http://www.economist.com/node/21562238
[4] http://www.economist.com/node/21562238
[5] http://www.economist.com/node/21562238
[6] http://www.economist.com/node/21562238
[7] http://www.economist.com/node/21562238
Turnip at (17)
Sep 30th, 2016 - 07:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you read my posts (8) & (10) you would find out that I clearly critizice the political manipulation of statistics by the previous administration...
All that “faux indignation” of yours is unneccessary....
If you read my linked article at (15) you will find out that...,a s Mr. Massot correctly mentiones at (16)..., the present administration has created 1.4 million new poor in just 4 months of gestion...
And that seems only to be the beginning...
Open your eyes...
Turnip...
16
Sep 30th, 2016 - 07:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mr Massot would have us believe just a year ago, that Evita K was telling the truth when she insisted the INDEC figures were correct, Argentina had 5% poverty.
Now, he is insisting that Macri is responsible for creating a poverty rate of 32% of Argentina's population in less than a year.
They can't ALL have lost their jobs at Aerolineas, can they?
Titter titter… what a Turnip!
Sep 30th, 2016 - 07:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0@19 Also he does not seem to understand that such economic situations don't change over night with a change of government. The circumstances that create the problem can take years to change. The K's suppressed the information of the true dire state of the country and it is only now becoming clear. Just because Macri's government found the truth doesn't mean they created the poor.
Sep 30th, 2016 - 07:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0The problem with suppressing the poverty numbers was that the K's could not implement any policies to help the poor because in their eyes they didn't exist. Now Macri has acknowledged them he can start to rectify the problem.
Geeeeeeee....
Sep 30th, 2016 - 08:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0The turnips continue with their comparison of apples and pears...
The information from the ODSA/UCA..., staunch opositors of the Kirchner administration..., has been available since 2010... here publicized by the most right wing conservative newspaper of Argentina...:
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1885450-en-solo-tres-meses-14-millones-de-personas-cayeron-en-la-pobreza
It clearly shows that the Macri administration has provoked a 3.6% jump in poverty in just 3 months of gestion...
3.6% traduces to 1.4 million new poor... in three (3) months!!
The worst part of it is that those stats from the ODSA/ UCA are already old...
... They are from April 2016, just before the savage price increases of utilities and the lost of some 200.000 more jobs in Argentina...
The Wild Capitalism party continues in Argentina...
Luckily, it's only one short year to legislative elections...
There we will have the chance to rectify the course of things...
Think, calm down dear. Go and relieve youself with a Guanacoor something :-)
Sep 30th, 2016 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Relieving oneself with ruminants is an old Anglo male tradition...
Sep 30th, 2016 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'll leave you Anglo experts to that...
We latino males use women and them chicks luuuuuv us for that...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/6241440/German-men-are-worlds-worst-lovers-with-English-men-in-second-place.html
Hypocrisy is rampant among MP cheerleaders as it is among Macri administration members.
Sep 30th, 2016 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Those who were outraged by numbers of poor--published by UCA--during the last part of the CFK government, have become surprisingly accommodating when the same UCA documents fresh poverty increases under the Macri administration.
Of course, there was a different (political) value to poverty between then and now.
Hear, hear...
Sep 30th, 2016 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@25 You are adopting a sanctimonious attitude if you think anyone here is celebrating the number of Argentines living in poverty. The only positive about this is that now the poor have been acknowledged they can be helped. It will take time to turn around an economy wrecked by the K's.
Sep 30th, 2016 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That the K's were liars and thieves is undisputed and fact.
Reekie is characteristically untouched by the obvious nature of the lies of the Kirchner government concerning its overt concealment of high poverty rates, and instead expresses his disdain for the momentum of a trend that was well underway during that same Kirchner government.
Sep 30th, 2016 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But Think… you are not a Latino lover but a serious cold hearted Swede?
Sep 30th, 2016 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you the sort that sits on a farm gate with a vacant expression, grunting, wearing a straw hat and a smock, chewing a strand of wheat?
You certainly sound thick enough. :-) Thick enough to swallow Cristinas lies whole!
Although the adict press which supports this government makes great efforts to minimize the responsability of the new administration, for the rise in the levels of poverty, nobody in this country is too idiot to believe that only C. F. K. is guilty for the number of poor people.
Sep 30th, 2016 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If i were opportunist, i would take seriously these figures, just to criticise a government that i don't like, but i prefer being coherent with what i have always thought about the different statistics. Although it's undeniable the great damage that Macri's policies are provoking in most of our social sectors, it's well known that there are different ways to measure poverty, that's why there are always big differences among the indexes that the institutions publish every month. I don't think they should be ignored, but it would be too stupid to make a religion of them. There are other objetive facts which show our social situation in a much better way, for example, in the huge marches that happened during C. F. K's government, despite the serious problems that we have always had, which were not solved by the former administration, unemployment and poverty were not included in absolute among the main motives, however now there are big manifestations of people who are losing their jobs, because of the policies of this government. If there are not jobs, there is nothing, although there is zero inflation.
On the other hand, i can understand that probably there are still many people who believe the hypocritical argument of the government about, '' the soposed heavy inherance'', however it's necesary that they don't forget that the same government which complains about the situation it found when it took office, is the same one which reduced such important taxes, as it did with the agrarian sector and the mining one, beside, it tries to replace them with more and more debts and cuts.
Anglo Turnip at (29)
Sep 30th, 2016 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) Viking heritage... Not Swedish... Biiiiiiiiig difference....
2) Them ladies tell me, I feel like a Latino Viking...
3) Some assimilation pays..., I reckon...
;-)))
#27 Elaine
Sep 30th, 2016 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“It will take time to turn things around.”
Come on, Elaine. One-hundred per cent of the Macri administration measures have gone in a single direction.
Name one measure attempting to mitigate the plight of the poorest. You can't because there is none.
This is a Carnaval for the Argentine elite, who are finally feeling the populace is being put where they belong: at ground level or below.
The only thing they need is to have a relatively calm social situation so that they can achieve their scorched-earth program of income redistribution.
For that, Macri receives valuable help from the concentrated media and part of the judiciary, in charge of the daily feeding of bread and circus to the public.
When the bulk of the electorate wakes up, it'll be way too late.
Glad to see that Think and Enrique accept how much poverty the CFK government created.
Sep 30th, 2016 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Weeeeeeell Thinky Poo. Viking eh? Big horns bad breath and shaggy beards. After they came here they died out, disappeared. Some of us do have their genes though. Danes are famous for Bacon here, not much else.
Sep 30th, 2016 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argies arent used to pain, they run away, give up, prostrate themselves, pitiful really. Mr Macri is applying the ointment and its painful but it will start to heal the malaise. Whether it will succeed is dubious because time and again people in RGland gave up and doled out printed money ( while leaders pocketed lots ) and trashed the economy through corruption, theft and incompetence. Says lots that RG poster here appear to support continuous trashing of your basket case Peronist economy and continual economic and social decline. Like Spain, you had it all (when Britain ran the place) and lost it all - Turnips!
(33) Skippy, me dear uninformed Roo...
Sep 30th, 2016 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In 2003.., year when the Kirchner administration took over..., poverty was about 58%...
http://edant.clarin.com/diario/2003/02/01/e-00401.htm
When they left, in 2015, poverty was at about 29%...
I Think..., Mr. Massot and I can easily calculate the fact that the Kirchners reduced poverty with about 50% during their 12 years of democratically elected administration...
Question is...
Can you calculate...?
@27 ElaineB
Sep 30th, 2016 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Assuming the K government was as bad as you say, do you really think Macri's policies are going to fix things? They've certainly made unemployment and poverty considerably worse in the short term. You don't think it should be possible to fix the economy without making it worse first?
@32 Enrique Massot
Didn't Macri create a social tariff to reduce the effect of his utility price rises on the poorest households? I suppose that could be considered a measure attempting to mitigate the plight of the poorest.
I'm not expecting to find too many others though.
#35 Think
Sep 30th, 2016 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Can you calculate...?”
No. They can't.
As you mentioned in your post, the Kirchners' governments purposely reduced poverty--committing some errors in the process.
The Macri government, instead, is working to purposely create additional poverty in Argentina, while concentrating wealth in fewer hands.
Peronism has nothing to do with Socialism. Juan Perón simply proposed to the Argentine elite that they had to give up a little in order to avoid social revolution. He proposed the participation of workers in the GDP should amount to 50 per cent. The Argentine elite never accepted this. They wanted all or nothing, and workers by the ground with a foot on their head.
In 1954, Peron had increased workers' participation to 49.6 per cent, from 31 per cent in 1938.
It fell to 36.6 per cent in 1959, four years into the Revolucion “Libertadora.”
It was increased again to 49.7 per cent in 1974, falling to 29.7 in 1977 during the dark years.
It reached 51.2 per cent in 2015.
It has already gone downhill to 48.5 per cent in 2016...and falling.
(37) Sr. Massot...
Sep 30th, 2016 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Charlando el otro día con algunos canas de Viedma, Rawson y Comodoro, me dicen que estan recibiendo fondos extras de Buenos Aires y estokeando material antidisturbios...
Vaya uno a saber pá qué...
Think fomenting revolution! Bahahaha
Sep 30th, 2016 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0El Camping it up!
The KFC revolutionarys!
And hypocrite ex pats too!
@5 Think
Sep 30th, 2016 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I ask you kindly to link us to any place in the universe where we can see, read or hear Mme Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner saying that...: ”Argentina had less poor than Germany”....
Try Googleing it ; perhaps she didn't mention Germany, but it makes no difference as she mentioned other countries, with even lower poverty levels than Germany:
”ARGENTINA’S PRESIDENT RAISES EYEBROWS WITH CLAIMS THE COUNTRY'S POVERTY RATE IS AMONG LOWEST IN THE WORLD
admin | June 10, 2015
Argentina has one of the world’s lowest poverty rates, rivaling that of countries like Iceland, Finland and Denmark — if you believe Argentine President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, who boasted the statistics at the U.N. Food and Agriculture meeting in Rome this week. But there are plenty of Argentines who don’t believe her, and they’re taking the president to task for her remarks.
Source: International Business Times
#38 Think
Sep 30th, 2016 - 11:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I believe you. Next year's budget is also very generous towards police and military forces.
A brutal redistribution of wealth such as Macri is achieving in Argentina cannot be done without repression. It has already started here and there, more as a test of what society will withstand. No doubt Macri knows at some point people are going to get real mad at him and his policies--and he no doubt will use force at that time.
#40 Jack Bauer
While Macri cheerleaders keep commenting ad nausea about how “bad” Cristina Fernandez was, they are turning a blind eye to Macri's monumental blunders such as “PM May told me she's open to negotiate on Malvinas,” the famous “poverty zero” which from being a promise has become a vague goal for another president to achieve sometime in the future, without even beginning to talk about Macri's numerous off-shore, undeclared companies.
Again, Argentina's poverty was noticed during CFK government--now cheerleaders are just celebrating the fact that statistics are being published--and the 1.4 million of new poor who are a consequence of Macri's economic measures are totally ignored.
41
Oct 01st, 2016 - 01:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0EM
“A brutal redistribution of wealth such as Macri is achieving in Argentina...”
Huh?
What “redistribution” of “wealth”?
I thought you said the economy was contracting?
“... cannot be done without repression.” Perhaps you're talking about Evita K's Socialist/Fascist regime.
“It has already started here and there...”
Repression?? Really?
“No doubt Macri knows at some point people are going to get real mad at him and his policies” -- sure, Evita K has already said that's what she's planning, and people like you have continued to repeat it.
“he no doubt will use force at that time.”
You're already condemning him and nothing has actually happened.
It's ironic that your wishful thinking is that Argentina's economic recovery will fail,
It's sad that you hope for repression and violence, to vindicate your support for a gang of Socialist thieves.
#42 Kanye
Oct 01st, 2016 - 03:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0What a cry baby you are.
“Your wishful thinking is that Argentina's economic recovery will fail.”
So when the country goes up in flames (it will) are you going to say it's the fault of my wishful thinking?
No, things do not work that way, Kanye.
Macri has it in his DNA. He can't do otherwise.
“Macri has it in his DNA.”
Oct 01st, 2016 - 03:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0EM
You are one of the funnier characters on here. A living caricature. :-)
Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving, showing the British for the deluded, hallucinating, completely out of touch with the reality and time era they live in people they are today.
Oct 01st, 2016 - 08:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.businessinsider.com/theresa-may-goverment-brexit-european-union-2016-9
“Theresa May's government is reaching out to leaders across the EU to seek reassurance that Britain's requests aren't completely rejected during Brexit negotiations.”
Well, that bodes well for your negotiating power when your own leader is making calls imploring to have even just one of their ideas to merely listened to!
“Whitehall, which is recruiting over 500 new civil servants to ease the task of negotiating Brexit, is worried that Britain's departure from the 28-nation bloc could be disastrous, according to the Times.”
Sure, it's disastrous because the British are not on Planet Earth when it comes to their real situation. They are trapped in a bubble of nostalgia of Empire and total denial of what their power today is.
“Leaders of the 27 other EU member states have agreed on a ”no negotiation without notification“ policy — meaning Britain will not be able to negotiate post-Brexit arrangements until May has triggered Article 50. ”
Tick tock, tick tock... (to WTO rules that send the UK into an economic depression).
“ The key issue is whether Britain will be able to retain access to the European single market without continuing the free movement of people. This is the deal the British public wants. Some of the EU's most powerful officials, including Commission President Jean Claude-Juncker and the Parliament's Brexit negotiator Guy Verhofstadt, have made it clear that Britain will not be allowed this deal.”
Tick tock...
“It's for this reason that it's easy to understand why May fears Britain could face humiliation when it eventually sits down with EU leaders and tries to negotiate a Brexit which suits both sides.”
Tick tock.
Anyone unfrozen Benjamin Disrali yet so he can pitot the Brittania?
Where do you get your info from,
Oct 01st, 2016 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0you should not take to much notice of paper or TV report.
We will leave the past behind,
something you argies should do with the Falkland's.
@42 Kanye
Oct 01st, 2016 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why do you assume EM wants the economic recovery to fail? Believing it will fail is hardly the same thing as wanting it to.
@45 Capi
Hope you're enjoying your schadenfreude.
I don't know what nostalgia for empire has to do with wanting more sovereignty and less immigration, but whatever.
Nostalgia for Empire is believe you will arrive at the negotiations with a big stick and dictate to them the terms of your own exit, mainly, that the EU give to you all the benefits of membership and you abjure all the obligations.
Oct 01st, 2016 - 02:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0While we are at it, you all buy me a Lamborghini, bake me some Italian white truffles bathed in melted To'ak cholocate, and sprinkled in Iranian Caviar...
...And clean the dishes afterwards, with both hands tied to your back just for fun.
You Brits and your Brittania are happlessly lost in the Have-my-Cake-and-eat-it-Tooic Ocean.
47
Oct 01st, 2016 - 02:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DT
Mr. Massot does not want a successful economic recovery under Macri's Presidency.
Massot is ideologically opposed to Macri.
A success like that would vindicate Macri's economic strategies and an ideology that is directly at odds with CFK's previous policies.
CFK and the Peronists that EM appears to slavishly support, would be unelectable if Macri succeeeds.
If Macri fails, and the economy worsens, the setting would be ripe for a populist government that promises handouts, nationalisation of industries, and the sort of non-productive jobs that have swollen the ranks at Aerolineas
# 49 Kanye
Oct 01st, 2016 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Mr. Massot does not want a successful economic recovery under Macri's Presidency.”
Wrong. Nothing would make me happier than Argentina's full economic success--under ANY government. So far, however, there are no signs of such success--on the contrary--every day the news are worse. Contraction of the domestic market, increasing unemployment, increasing foreign debt, closure of PYMES (small and medium-size enterprises), etc. etc.
“Massot is ideologically opposed to Macri.”
You bet! Thank you for noticing that. I am totally opposed to Macri's ideology because it's the same that led Argentina to economic disasters in the past. Now: are you suggesting that being ideologically opposed to Macri would somehow be a character's flaw?
@48 Capi
Oct 01st, 2016 - 04:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If people believe that, it's because politicians who should have known better told them it was possible. It's amazing how willing people are to believe something they very much want to be true. Just look at Trump's supporters.
I think a lot of people in Britain are in for a very rude awakening. :(
@49 Kanye
And you know what he wants better than he does?
When I said that the idea that the people you disagree with don't want the best for their country, was harming politics in the USA, you agreed.
You don't think this is true for Argentina too?
EM
Oct 01st, 2016 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Wrong. Nothing would make me happier than Argentina's full economic success--under ANY government.”
That is very clearly NOT the case.
You defy logic and do your best to misrepresent facts in an attempt to discredit Macri's financial and economic policies and sow doubt, discontent and anger.
It is also very clear that during the 10 years of Kirchnerism there was high 30%+ poverty, high 25%+ annual inflation, a tumbling Peso, a fracturing of education and health services, crumbling infrastructure, loss of investment, oppressive taxation, unsustainable depletion of National Reserves, economic default, implications of monetary corruption and influence peddling, and increasing provocation and alienation from the International Community.
So much for Kirchnerist policies and ideology.
Macri is attempting to bring in reforms to address the failed model of Kirchnerism.
You characterise that as political and economic oppression.
You consistently repeat the Peronist rhetoric, threats that there will be violent mass protests against the government if Macri attempts reforms, along with charges that private business will steal from the people.
Is it a personal flaw that you mis-represent facts and are closely aligned and supportive vocally supportive of a flawed ideology ?
You Brits and your Brittania are happlessly lost in the Have-my-Cake-and-eat-it-
Oct 01st, 2016 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But we made the cake, so its ours to eat,
Argentina cannot afford a cake, so has to buy bits from others to eat.
,,,,,,,,,,,,
Some of the best reasons to be happy we're OUT of the EU
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/716418/Brexit-100-days-best-reasons-happy-OUT-EU-Referendum
closing the door on decades of bureaucracy, red tape and meddling
David Cameron dramatically resigned
Far from naysayers' predictions that the economy would flounder, trading would collapse and hardworking families would be worse off, the nation has been bolstered by Brexit and these claims have been blasted out of the water
Project Fear’s apocalyptic claims turned out to be bunkum. We are not in the midst of World War Three.
Western Civilization has not collapsed
By voting to leave on 23rd June, we have avoided being subsumed by the new European Union joint defence system, despite claims from Remainders during the referendum that there were absolutely no plans for an EU army.
business is doing ok,
we may even get rid of blackmailers like Nissan,
like it or lump it,
we had 40 of years of EU rules, so at the very least, give us time to adjust and get trading with the wider world,
As soon as Britain actually leaves,
Besides even if it all went wrong [and it wont ]
at least it will be the case of Britain went wrong , Britain made the decision,
At least Britain wont blame everybody else.
With all the crap we have been receiving from leaders from Greece to France,
Hungry to Spain , Poland to Belgium,
Germany to Italy,
Would you stay in a club that treats you so bloody badly.
And Britain still sends our young men and women to eastern countries to help them,
Should we ? shouldn't we >?
Would you?
meanwhile,
One in three Argentines, 8.8 million live in poverty ,
these poor people deserve more from its government , rather than worry about what we do,
put Argentina First,
Think
Oct 01st, 2016 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I do believe CFK claimed much lower rates of poverty than have now been declared by your current government.
So either CFK increased the poverty levels from these claimed low numbers....
Or
She lied!
Which is it?
@53 Briton
Oct 01st, 2016 - 09:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I hate the Express.
“David Cameron dramatically resigned ”
That's nice. How are you liking Theresa May?
“Far from naysayers' predictions that the economy would flounder...”
We haven't actually left yet. The words chickens, count, and hatched spring to mind.
“By voting to leave on 23rd June, we have avoided being subsumed by the new European Union joint defence system”
Or to be more accurate, by voting to leave on 23rd June, we have stopped blocking the creation of the new European Union joint defence system, and ensured that we have no control over it. Great result Brexiters!
“At least Britain wont blame everybody else.”
Just keep telling yourself that.
“And Britain still sends our young men and women to eastern countries to help them,
Should we ? shouldn't we >?
Would you?”
Maybe you're right. We should just let Russia invade Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. After all, it worked out so well with Germany and Czechoslovakia.
@41 Reekie
Oct 01st, 2016 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“A brutal redistribution of wealth such as Macri is achieving in Argentina cannot be done without repression.”
??? sounds a bit contradictory ....I think that the distribution of wealth - provided, without populist policies - is a good thing....but I fail to see how “repression” fits in...Care to explain ?
“Again, Argentina's poverty was noticed during CFK government--now cheerleaders are just celebrating the fact that statistics are being published--and the 1.4 million of new poor who are a consequence of Macri's economic measures are totally ignored.”
If there ever was an understatement (yr 1st line), that's it ....fact is that poverty was rampant towards the end of the CFK era, and was downplayed by the Govt which refused to publish correct stats, and now the truth is coming out . What's wrong with that ? The s0-called “new poor” are leftovers from the CFK's administration.....or d'you really think that things would change on the day Macri was sworn in ?
It's no use trying to block the sun with a sieve.
@50 Reekie
“I am totally opposed to Macri's ideology because it's the same that led Argentina to economic disasters in the past.”
By “.....in the past”, I presume you mean the last 12 years....and I was under the impression you thought that was a golden era for the Argentines...
https://pjmedia.com/michaelledeen/2016/09/27/obama-to-world-i-failed-but-its-their-fault/
Oct 01st, 2016 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chronic
Oct 01st, 2016 - 11:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Spamming will not change things.
You blatantly lied:
Obama did NOT embroil the USA in war in Iraq.
Obama did not cause the mortgage and housing and economic crisis.
That was Republicam GW Bush, before Obama was elected in 2009.
I hate the Express
Oct 01st, 2016 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you have then answered your own questions,
you don't have much confidence in Britain then.
most of us don't have any in may...
Poor monkey!
Oct 01st, 2016 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So are the USA and UK succumbing to populist tendencies then with Trump and the Brexit promises?
Oct 01st, 2016 - 11:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Monkey:
Oct 01st, 2016 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who are you quoting? Huh?
Obamy:
Arguably the worst president in US history.
Arguably the most destructive - domestically and internationally.
The only beneficiary of Obamy's time in office is the failed legacy of Carter who is now saved
the stinging distinction of being the worst president.
Obamy has officiated over the longest and most impactful US post recessionary non recovery.
This economic stagnation and weakening of the economy is the domestic legacy of Obamy.
The destruction of the balance of the remaining political stability in the middle east and the emboldening of Russian and Chinese international military adventurism is his international legacy.
And yet Obamy is proud for it seems that his single guiding principle is to humble America and in doing so to punish it and the west for what he perceives as our past excesses.
Obamy has made it his life's work to travel the world apologizing for our past transgressions - both real and imagined.
Fortunately in the end the amount of damage that Obamy could ultimately inflict was capped by his preoccupation with golf and seeking celebrity.
There is no “imagined” Anglo transgression. It's like an imagined islamic terrorist attack. If there is a colonial transgression or terrorist attack in the world, 90% and higher that it was either of the two.
Oct 02nd, 2016 - 12:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0If I say an Anglo murdered my pet Glyptodon, it happened.
Come on Monkey!
Oct 02nd, 2016 - 12:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0You've got some reading to catch up on.
Sorry that no one can seem to help you with your missing comprehension skills.
lol.
@59 Briton
Oct 02nd, 2016 - 12:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0“you should not take to much notice of paper or TV report.”
Maybe you should follow your own advice, rather than believing everything you read in that article.
“you don't have much confidence in Britain then.
most of us don't have any in may...”
Why would you expect me to have confidence in Britain, when you yourself have no confidence in its leader?
But no, not even Britain can expect to leave the EU without suffering for it. How much or how little will depend on our leaders; you know, the ones you have no confidence in.
And I see I was right that you don't like Theresa May. So why do you think Cameron's resignation is something to celebrate?
But I have an idea. Why don't you, and any other Brexit supporter who wants to, promise right now that you won't blame anyone else but yourselves if (when) things go wrong?
@61, 63 Capi
“So are the USA and UK succumbing to populist tendencies then with Trump and the Brexit promises?”
Yes. And so is the rest of Europe with the rise of parties like Syriza and Golden Dawn, Podemos, Dansk Folkeparti, and Alternative für Deutschland.
“If there is a colonial transgression or terrorist attack in the world, 90% and higher that it was either of the two.”
The irony of someone living in a former Spanish colony saying this.
Hey, Monkeys!
Oct 02nd, 2016 - 12:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0(54) Skippy, my sweet ignorant little rooThink
Oct 02nd, 2016 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You ask... (like a freshman that hasn't read my posts (8), (10), (12), (15), & (35), were your question is already answered...:
...“I do believe CFK claimed much lower rates of poverty than have now been declared by your current government.
So either CFK increased the poverty levels from these claimed low numbers....
Or
She lied!
Which is it?”
I Say..:
Neither...
It's a question oof which scale one uses...
For example...:
...If I told you the true fact that this morning, at my little Patagonian place, there was ~43 degrees at sunrise, you could use some common sense and THINK that i'm using the Farenheit scale...
Or you could choose to be a turnip and say that good old THINK is claiming that temperatures in Patagonia at sunrise are higher than those in Borroloola, Kununurra and Pannawonica......, which would be a lie...
Your lie...
WHEN JORNALISM DOESN'T EXIST.
Oct 02nd, 2016 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If it soposes that Macri's government must be judged from now, respecting the levels of poverty, then we should wonder who is responsable for the rise in number of poor people since december of 2015?, as a result of the hard cuts implemented by the new administration. It's really amazing that only a few journalists criticised the words of the president. As i said in my comment 30, although the hegemonical adict press which supports this government makes great efforts to minimize the responsability of the actual government in the deterioration of our social situation, just a few citizens in this country are too idiot to believe that only C. F. K. is guilty for the number of poor people.
I really think it's very mediocre to talk about the actual situation, if we just take into account statistics, it's well known that there are different ways to measure poverty, that's why there are always big differences among the indexes that the institutions publish every month, although i don't think they should be ignored, but it's too stupid to make a religion of them, there are objetive facts which are much more relevant than what any statistic can show. Despite the serious problems that we have always had, which weren't solved by the former government, in the huge marches that happened during C. F. K.'s government, unemployment and poverty weren't in absolute among the main motives, however now there are big manifestations of people who are losing their jobs, because of the policies of the new administration, which shows clearly the decadence that we are living at the moment.
@67 Think
Oct 02nd, 2016 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So what you are saying is that CFK used an inappropriate measure of poverty to deceive people about its true level?
And when it says her minister claimed poverty was lower than in Germany, he was lying. Same as if you said the temperature in Patagonia was higher than in Australia, while using a different scale for each.
(69) Mr. DemonTree
Oct 02nd, 2016 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My answer to your question about Mme. Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner are to be found at my posts (8), (10), (12), (15), & (35)...
Anyhow...
To make a long story short...
One could say that CFK used an inappropriate measure of poverty to deceive people about its true level....
As when the British government used an inappropriate measure of poverty to deceive people about its true level... by changing the common European standard of the ”At-risk-of poverty threshold of 60% of the national median equivalised disposable income (ARPT60)“ to the lower ”At-risk-of poverty threshold of 50% of the national median equivalised disposable income (ARPT50)“....
That little ”deceive” allowed them Tories to keep poverty statistics at an acceptable level....
Don't tell me you didn't know about that...!?
@70 Think
Oct 02nd, 2016 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No straight answers... but I'll take that as a yes.
And no, I did not know the UK government had done that, and I can't find any reports on it either. Do you have a link?
(71) DemonTree
Oct 02nd, 2016 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No straight answers?
Ain't my comment (8)...: ”I fully subscribed then..., as I do now that...:
President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner’s suggestion that Argentina’s poverty rate had been cut to less than 5% rang false with experts and locals alike...” straight enough?
Ain't my comment (10)...:
”Applying (wrongly, in this Patagonian dweller humble opinion) the 2015 World Bank's International Poverty Treshold of 1.90 U$S per person per day, Ms. Kirchner Argentinean poverty percent of ~5% was quite correct...”
ANYHOW... The discussion here was about not one, not two but three brainwashed turnips in here claiming that Mme. Kirchner said something about Germany. Denmark, Norway, whatever - at the 2015 FAO conference...
When presented with proof of the contrary (see my link at post (6))... none of them had the intelectual honesty to admit they were wrong...
Brainwashed people don't do such...
They are, after all, brainwashed...
Your case is a bit different, Mr DemonTree....
You tried to introduce a minister that said something about Germany...
Nothing to do with Mme. Kirchner...
Who isn't being straight here?
Bridging the gabs...; It's like if we were talking about the Queen (Lizzy) and I attacked her intelligence by saying...: Yes, but her minister, Boris, said.....
You catch me drift..., laddie?
Más sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo...
El Think...
DT
Oct 02nd, 2016 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No links from Think.
What would T Hill make of that?
- crickets!
Thinks example is not even remotely on the same scale as CFK Evita K's grand deception.
There is quite a difference between Evita K's 5% Poverty Rate and the 27-30% variously reported by non-government and Charity sources like the Catholic Church, two years ago.
We have every confidence in Britain, and our prime minister ,
Oct 02nd, 2016 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0until they go wild,
anyway today she has stated , march will be the month she will do article 50 and should be out by 2019,
in the meantime the world moves on,
And Argentina may well improve the lives of the poor,
after all Argentina surely cannot go down any further, she must hit the floor sooner or later to start again.
(71) Mr. DemonTree
Oct 02nd, 2016 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“No, I did not know the UK government had done that, and I can't find any reports on it either. Do you have a link?”
I say...:
Doesn't surprise me the least...
By the way...:
I posted my comment at...: 06:06 Pm
You replied at......................: 06:33 Pm
Taking out time to read, comprehend and type a response, it leaves only ~20 minutes of “intense” search... before you giving up, lad.
You'll have to work harder to break that Anglo brainwash barrier...
Besides....
Your Mom doesn't work here...
Given the recent trends, we probably don't have long to wait before we will see a headline with something like
Oct 02nd, 2016 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“15.8 million live in poverty and 2.7 million indigent as Argentina votes to spend US$900 million on new Falklands public relations campaign”
@68 Axel
Oct 02nd, 2016 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“If it soposes that Macri's government must be judged from now, respecting the levels of poverty, then we should wonder who is responsable for the rise in number of poor people since december of 2015?”
Axel, sounds like you've never heard of inertia.....I take it then, that you believe that a trend, like increasing poverty for 12 years, can suddenly be halted and reversed, on the first day of a new administration.
“....just a few citizens in this country are too idiot to believe that only C. F. K. is guilty for the number of poor people”
Not only CFK....her cyclops hubbie, before her ; I'd say that there too many idiots that believe she was not responsible for the increase in poverty....usually those who sponged off the rest of society.....and you perhaps think that Govt handouts are the solution for a prosperous economy and full employment ? Populism may start off nice, but it's never solved poverty.
“...however now there are big manifestations of people who are losing their jobs, because of the policies of the new administration, which shows clearly the decadence that we are living at the moment.”
The people who are NOW losing their jobs are the Govt “parasites” that never really worked and were just a burden on the portion of society that actually did, and paid taxes....and are correctly, being eliminated to enable Govt finances to get back on track. Good economic policy, pure and simple.
@72, 75 Think
Oct 02nd, 2016 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A straight answer would have been to just say yes, rather than expect me to hunt back through 5 of your previous comments.
The minister was mentioned in the article, which is why I brought it up, but presumably if CFK disagreed with what he said then she could have corrected it. It's more like recently when Macri claimed Theresa May was willing to negotiate on sovereignty and Malcorra was forced to correct him.
As for the Tories changing the measure used for poverty, I don't intend to waste time hunting for something that may or may not be true. If you care about convincing me then you can post your source.
@77 “The people who are NOW losing their jobs are the Govt “parasites” that never really worked and were just a burden...”
Oct 02nd, 2016 - 11:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not entirely true, though certainly many in the ranks of the newly unemployed were little more than Kirchnerist “militants” and many of them created havoc as those agencies came under the new government (theft of computers and other materials). Some other “workers” were certainly dead wood, serving no serious useful purpose other than swell the ranks of the apparently, if uselessly, “employed” only as a manner of speaking, to make CFK numbers look good. But there are others now unemployed who, due to the business climate that has existed here for decades, were employed in industries that cannot compete at all in times of international economic downturns, and can hardly compete domestically even in the best of times, unless subsidised and/or protected in some manner, and that protectionist model is slowly being replaced. Some are unemployed due to such things as agricultural failure. There is another class seen in this region (pcia Sta Cruz) who actually could have been usefully employed and through no fault of their own are not, and these include the people who were working on projects that were de-funded near the end of the CFK regime, so as the government changed to new hands, many of those people had been actually working on projects for which CFK's had not provided funds, but the blame for their unemployment now of course goes with the present government. And there are variations on all of these categories. It's the Argentina of always.
79
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 12:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks ML,
This should certainly clarify matters for M. Enrique of Canada, who wonders aloud how Macri can “cause” unemployment while trying to improve the economy.
(78) DemonTree
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 01:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0I see...
Comfortably numb...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_FrOQC-zEog
Apparently somebody at the UN has caught on that Argentina has been lying about poverty statistics.
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 03:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0The below-cited UN report was several months ago and more likely realistically reflects the poverty condition at the end of the Kirchner regime. Excerpt from the pro-Peronist Buenos Aires Herald:
”Almost one in three children live in poverty in Argentina, according to a new report published by the United Nations’ Children’s Emergency Fund (UNICEF) yesterday [May 2016]. The study found that 8.4 percent of girls and boys up to the age of 17 live in extreme poverty.
“The report used “multidimensional” criteria to judge poverty levels by examining education and housing among other factors, rather than focusing on traditional income thresholds used in other investigations addressing destitution.
”UNICEF suggested that 30 percent of Argentine children below the age of 18 lived in poverty.”
-------------
So the Macri government and the UN figures on poverty in Argentina nearly coincide? The UNICEF numbers suggest more than six times the poverty rate that Cristina tried to tell the world? How can this be?
Kicillof, who said in 2015 he didn't know how many people were living in poverty in Argentina, now says that his still-unknown number has increased by 20 percent so far during the Macri government, but offers no baseline or methodology for how he came up with the number... como se le cante el orto.
Enrique Massot can doubtless explain it to us.
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 06:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0He is a K - rat, mindlessly lying to sell his Argentine brothers and sisters down the river, for the sake of the K's and ideology.
#31
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 10:12 am - Link - Report abuse 01) Viking heritage... Not Swedish... Biiiiiiiiig difference....
Well, from the horse's mouth. The man who denigrates the Falkland islanders is descended from a race of brutal pirates who raped, looted slaughtered their way across Europe and squatted on their victims land.
I would exonerate you on the worst excesses BUT you are squatting on territory wrested from the indigenous population. A fortunate lapse of memory on your part when attributing it to others ?
It must still be in the blood. Kettle and pot comes into mind !
However, I would acknowledge they built excellent ships and were good metal workers.
@31 Think
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'd b interested to know how you determine Viking heritage especially as the origin of the word is itself uncertain.
However, the following link may help explain it especially as it is from your favourite newspaper:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2013/feb/25/viking-ancestors-astrology
JACK BAUER (779.
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have never had any problem in discussing with people who have deep ideologial differences with me, however what bothers me a lot, is to read the comments of such mediocre and ignorant people like you, Martin Llaso and others, who know so little about Argentina, but who dare to tell us what our country should do.
If you weren't so ignorant, you would know that before kirchnerism the 50% of argentines live in poverty, in fact, we used to see long queues of many citizens in the embasies from Spain and U. S. A. who tried to leave Argentina, however, a long the years of kirchnerism, and beyond the soposed manipulation of public statistics, it's undeniable the fact that there was a deep improvement in the social situation of the country, otherwise, we still would see many people who leave the nation, as it used to happen. Perhaps, that's the reason why it was the only one party which could rule Argentina for three periods, beside, it lost the elections after 12 years and a half and for just 1,3 points, if you weren't so mediocre, you would take into account such important detaills.
On the other hand, i can understand that perhaps there are still many citizens who buy the hypocritical argument of the government, in relation to the soposed h
(85)
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Quite simple in my auld “Stamme” case...
I need just to check the good auld family tree...
Only legit sons and dottirs posted in it..., not the offspring of them easy local women! one usullaly meets on sea cruises...
Must be a very long family tree going back it would seem over a thousand years.
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In fact it must be amongst the world's longest.
Not really...
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Neither long nor too uncommon in Scandinavia....
40% of the Norwegian population can trace their ancestors some 1.000 years back...
~70% of the Icelandic population can trace their ancestors to AD 950...
~80% in the Faroes...
We were quite tight knit tribes, you know....
“We were quite tight knit tribes, you know....”
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Tight knit” is argie code for incestuous.
@90 Marti Llazo
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh yeah, scientists use Iceland for research into genetic diseases because of all those records and because everyone is related. Someone even made a dating app that warns you if the person you are about to hook up with is actually your second cousin. Not a big problem in most countries!
@81 Think
I don't think you do see, but never mind.
Well, there you have it “straight from the Norse’s mouth”, they are totally inbred, explains a lot.
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not least that Swede is a type of Turnip.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnip_(terminology)
I Think what he is trying to say is that his excuse is that he is a product of Norway undoubtably the most boring place on earth. Full of boring people and nutcases in the North _ Result is low intelligence, ideocracy, and serial failure. It does produce good turnips though.
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TWIMC
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Strange how two adjacent peoples so closely interlinked by conquest and selective breeding (our stallions, your mares) as the Scandinavian and the Anglos can chose paths so diverse...
Lets take North Sea Oil as an example...
~ Fifty years ago, me Norse brothers chose the right Socialdemocratic path...
This is just one of the results...: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Norway
What can the British government show to their people other than a couple of fat cat multinationals that got rich at their expense as Royal Shell & Beyond Petroleum...?
Viking heritage, Saxon heritage,
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Celtic heritage... British heritage,
Comes up every so often,
but surely if one is going back that far, then we all have African heritage,
So if we all went back to where we all originated, would not parts of Africa like Eritrea, be very very overcrowded,
And most importantly, Would Argentina claim it ..lol
@79 Marti Llazo
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“But there are others now unemployed who, due to the business climate that has existed here for decades, were employed in industries that cannot compete at all in times of international economic downturns,......and that protectionist model is slowly being replaced”.
You are right. But as you point out, even those who were productively employed and who now aren't , are victims of the “K” era.
@86 AXEL
The problem in Argentina under CFK, was more of a populist nature than ideological. I made no mention of ideology, and that's where you liberals can't tell the difference...it was the pure incompetence in running the economy that lead to Argentina's continual and current predicament.
“.....comments of such mediocre and ignorant people like you, Martin Llaso and others, who know so little about Argentina, but who dare to tell us what our country should do.”
Casting aside your stupid comments about me and ML, my knowledge of Argentina isn't limited to a few visits to the country and reading some news. It goes somewhat deeper, but that is not the point here. You , on the other hand, as you apparently live there, and SHOULD be able to discern things a bit better , are so politically biased, that if it ain't the nationalistic populists in power, nothing is good. Anyway, 12 years of “K” power produced very little compared what it could have if CFK weren't a corrupt populist surrounded by thugs.
.
Meanwhile,
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One in three Argentines, 8.8 million live in poverty ,
oh well, this seems more interesting...
Meanwhile,
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One in four Britons, 16 millions live in poverty ,
oh well, this seems interesting too...
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/one-four-britons-now-living-3861508
Who believes the daily record,
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Still only trying to be helpful
http://en.mercopress.com/2016/09/29/one-in-three-argentines-8.8-million-live-in-poverty-and-1.7-million-are-indigent
@78 DT
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ryr @84 “Heavy Fire from BO...”
I agree, my political views are more conservative, because over the last 20 years I have seen that the shift to the left - in LatAm - has promoted populism and more corruption that ever before. The advent of massive govt handouts to the poor - which I can agree with, provided correctly used - ended up being used as a tool to obtain votes. The PT used this expedient to the point that what was only a strong suspicion, has now been confirmed: the “Bolsa Família” - a programme created by the pre-PT govts, and destined to help only the very poor, was later used by the PT to bolster their popularity - it was conceded to more than 15 million families (30 million votes) - and was being administered fraudulently. What caught the attention of the authorities, was the fact that recently the PT received R$ 16 million (USD 5 million) in donations from people who were supposed to be living in extreme poverty. They checked and discovered thousands of cases of identity theft, occurred during the PT administrations, being used to disguise the origin of money officially earmarked for the “Bolsa Família’. While the PT may have done a few good things, their legacy will be incompetence and rampant corruption ; evidence of the latter being the organized crime installed inside all the State-run companies, the most notorious example being PB…until now. There is still lot more to come.
Regarding the liberal v. conservative press, while I cannot recall having seen any significant reporting on crimes committed by the blacks (against their own, or eventually against whites) by either, the liberal press, and BO, make a point of drawing attention to only the “white on black” crime, despite the fact it is 13 times less.
Yes, your link relates to the punching episodes, which took a spike immy after TM was shot and killed, correctly as you say, by a neighbour watch volunteer (a Hispanic), not the police.
Geeeeeee..... Briton
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Suddenly, your favourite papers are not good enough when they tell you some inconvenient truths..., huhhhhh?
What about the very British Institute for Fiscal Studies then...?
https://www.ifs.org.uk/search?q=Poverty
favourite papers ,
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 07:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I only read the express on line along with some others,
but like you, I read the Sun,
Bright , hot , and a shining light,
lol
Why have you not commented on the top 4 items on the mercopress page,
your name is missing,
They miss your impute....
Impute?
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 07:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0they need your input [bloody spell checker]
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0or your advice..
so they say...
#94 Think Turnip - 4m population and half the North Sea? Norway! Its not rocket science. Doesnt stop Norway being biting cold and boring. Your folks ran away and became squatters somewhere that was stolen from the natives didnt they?
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@105 The Voice
Oct 03rd, 2016 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It wouldn't have gone as far, but there was nothing stopping Britain creating a sovereign wealth fund like Norway rather than just spending the money. Plus Norway didn't privatise everything in the 80's so they got more money from their share of the oil. The Thatcher government took short term profit at the expense of long term gain.
Unsurprising but interesting article in argie media today relating to the high levels of poverty and under-employment. Reminds us that the past decades of failure here are largely responsible for the poor economic conditions of today, and the continuing non-competitive low productivity of this country.
Oct 04th, 2016 - 05:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0The article revealed that in competitiveness, Argentina makes a terribly poor showing at a reported 104th out of 138 countries studied. In other words, Argentina just isn't working. And it didn't get that way overnight.
I say “reported” ranking because when I checked the Global Competitiveness Report it showed Argentina at position 106, between the progressive economic powerhouses of Mongolia and Bangladesh.
Looks like the UK comes in at about 10th place.
Contrast that 104th (or 106th) position for Argentina with the rankings of other Latin American countries: even Guatemala and Mexico leave comparatively inefficient and unproductive Argentina in the dust. And Chile is said to be positioned as the 33d most competitive economy in the world.
Peronism will do its best to ensure that Argentina remains in the poorest-performing part of the competitiveness charts.
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1943051-la-productividad-es-el-principal-determinante-del-crecimiento
(106) Mr. DemonTree
Oct 04th, 2016 - 07:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“ There was nothing stopping Britain creating a sovereign pension fund...”
I say...:
Yes it is... Free Market Ideology...
Demon Tree. There was 60m people in the UK, vs 4m in Norway. Not difficult to put aside cash into a sovereign wealth fund when you have a similar quantity of oil and a tiny fraction of the number of people to spend it on. Do try to keep up. RG centric 65 Brook Street hyperbole can fool one into thinking the average Brit is disadvantaged.
Oct 04th, 2016 - 08:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Free maket ideology? - UK- worlds 5th largest economy. Argentina, weak poor crime ridden Peronist basket case with 40% in REAL poverty. Think is on a mission spouting 65 Brook Street propaganda. It doesnt bear examination. Wait for more twisted 'facts' from from Hissing Sid…… :-)
Basically Thatcher spent the money “re-structuring” the British economy.
Oct 04th, 2016 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Much of it in redundancy/unemployment benefit, where whole swathes of not just nationalised industries closed or converted.
Not dissimilar to what happened in much of Eastern Europe after the fall of communism, Soviet style industry closed wholesale where it was completely uncompetitive in the modern world.
Except they didn’t have oil revenues to cushion the blow.
Was that the right decision?
That would depend upon your viewpoint.
@110 Pugol-H
Oct 04th, 2016 - 11:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I suppose lots of the posters here actually remember this. But I never understood why noncompetitive industries couldn't be forced to become more competitive, rather than destroyed.
It does seem Britain is still suffering the ill effects now though, as wealth is so concentrated in London.
@109 The Voice
Sure, it's easier to save when you have plenty of money, but it's wise to save even when you don't. The oil is a finite resource and if you need the money now, what makes you think you won't need it just as much later?
And yes the UK is better off than Argentina. That's not really much to boast about though, is it?
@100 Jack Bauer
Well I can certainly understand that. And apparently people are now punishing the PT at the polls for that corruption. I don't think Obama and the Democrats are particularly close to the PT politically though.
About the press, can you think of any examples of “white on black” crimes - other than by the police - being highlighted? I don't think that I have seem any reported.
The Daily Mail says the attacks didn't have much to do with race or religion, and the Mail is certainly right wing, but who knows.
(111) Mr. DemonTree
Oct 05th, 2016 - 04:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....
A reasonably rational, straight-Thinking Tory...!
No wonder them Trnips in here sugested you were my sockpuppet... ;-)
Demon Tree, Britain is still borrowing more than a Billion a week and paying most of that out in debt interest. How can you save in that situation? Its the result of blind socialist economics a discipline you seem well versed in. That will get rolled back in due course.
Oct 05th, 2016 - 08:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0(113)
Oct 05th, 2016 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0{[AUTOREPLAY]}
DemonTree here...
Thank you for your post. I’m out of the office and will be back soon. During this period I will have limited access to MercoPress....
For immediate assistance please contact me colleague, Mr. El Think...
Best Lib Dem regards,
DemonTree
@111 DT
Oct 05th, 2016 - 05:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I don't think Obama and the Democrats are particularly close to the PT politically though”
Ok, agreed. While I am of the opinion that BO tried to impress a socialist agenda on the US, without going too far overboard, the PT was busy fomenting class warfare while resorting to flagrant populism to create a broad base on which to build their sick dream of uniting South America under the flag of extreme socialism ; where they, and similarly-oriented parties would rule unopposed - like what happened in Venezuela under Chavez and now Maduro, and which has failed miserably. Most South America countries, at one time or another in recent history, got into bed with either leftists and/or populists, and it took 15 years (on average) for the people to realize that left-wing inspired populism, and corruption, don't fill their bellies.
“About the press, can you think of any examples of “white on black” crimes - other than by the police - being highlighted? I don't think that I have seem any reported.”
No I can't recall any cases of “white on black” crime being highlighted ; Other than the few 'white' mental nutcases that decided to shoot people in malls and/or in schools, due to their own personal problems, without necessarily targeting anyone because of race, what is reported are exactly the cases of cops (even some black cops) killing blacks ; nothing else seems to be significant enough to reach the news, despite the fact that the enormous majority of black killings are committed by other blacks (93%) - while crimes committed by whites, Hispanics and/or Orientals, against blacks, accounts for the other 7%.
@113 The Voice
Oct 06th, 2016 - 11:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's not completely true that you can't save in that situation. Norway actually still has a national debt; presumably they are getting more income from the investments than they are paying in interest. But I don't know whether that could ever have been true for Britain.
Most of Britain's borrowing has always been to fund wars, not social programs. And our national debt won't be paid off any time soon; the government has abandoned the target of running a surplus by 2020 because people like you voted for Brexit. So much for 6 years of austerity.
@115 Jack Bauer
It's a general problem with the news that only the most noteworthy things get reported. So plane crashes are reported and car crashes not, although many more people die in car crashes.
But it seems the media is being somewhat fair in equally ignoring both 'white on black' and 'black on black' crime. And I already explained why I think killings by the police are more significant, even though they only account a small fraction of the deaths by violence.
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