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Trump's “rigged system” claim receives strong support in opinion polls

Saturday, October 22nd 2016 - 09:10 UTC
Full article 69 comments

The Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump gained on his Democratic rival Hillary Clinton among US voters this week, cutting her lead nearly in half, according to Reuters/Ipsos polling released on Friday. The polling data showed Trump's argument that the Nov. 8 election is “rigged” against him has resonated with members of his party. Read full article

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  • ElaineB

    We should let Trump keep talking as he shoots himself in the foot repeatedly. You really can't polish a turd.

    Oct 22nd, 2016 - 11:24 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Captain Poppy

    The real problem Elaine is that he has already sown the seeds of doubt in his racist, biggoted, xenophobic followers. It's a toss up between who is dumber, he or his followers. HE seems to think being president that is can do anything he wishes, even fire the speaker of the house when the majority in his own party repel away from Trump. And his followers seem to forget whatever his plans are (have they every really been defined?), they need to go through both chambers.
    I dread the week following the election if l Clinton wins by a thin margin. I feel certain that in Massachusetts, it will be quiet. But south of the DMZ, aka, the Mason-Dixon line........it could be a free fire zone.

    Oct 22nd, 2016 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Kanye

    Sadly, that sounds true.

    Trump has a lot in common with Maduro and the other 'rule by decree' basket case Presidents of South America, conspired against by “Sepoys” or the CIA.

    Oct 22nd, 2016 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • ElaineB

    @ Captain Poppy

    Yes, all of that is correct but I am not sure all of his followers are so dumb. There is a definite anti-establishment movement across the world - not just the U.S - and that has a huge part to play in the crazy rise of Trump. When people have had to tighten belts for years and struggle for years they feel left behind by the system. He has marketed himself as anti-establishment when he is, in fact, part of it and the problem.

    Trump is a monster so we have to hope enough people swallow their dislike of Hillary for the sake of the greater good. When you think about it, if any other Republican candidate was running they would be a shoo-in.

    Personally, I have gained a huge admiration for the way Hillary has dealt with Trump's appalling behaviour. He even unwittingly gave her a way to connect with women who empathise with her situation - having to deal with a bullying, sexist troll. Who hasn't met men like that? Watching her wipe the floor with him on the debate floor has been a treat. Even Trump admires her as he said to Hillary on Thursday night, “You know, you are one tough and talented woman”.

    As for after the election - and hopefully a Cllnton win - Trump will move on to his T.V.channel and make money out of his expanded brand. (It was only ever about him anyway) And I think there will be a calming down. It is getting colder and who wants to riot and protest in bad weather?

    @ Kanye

    You are right, he would fit perfectly as a leader of a banana republic.

    Oct 22nd, 2016 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • ChrisR

    If Trump wins, which it seems he may do if you don't look at the media paid for polls based on very small sample sizes but look at the nationally based poles shown in The Hill (it's not Hillary, it's an online Dem oriented site) will Clinton claim it's a fix?

    WTF cares?

    Has it ever been as bad as this, ever?

    Oct 22nd, 2016 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse -4
  • Kanye

    Mr Chris

    “who cares?”


    Of course people care.

    Even non-US citizens care.

    Perhaps not you, as a Brit who has opted out but is bitter and cynical of others.

    For others, it will have a profound effect on their lives and millions outside the US.

    Those that can do something about it by exercising their right to free thought, free speech, and their vote, should take positive action to stop this dangerously incompetent fool.

    Even Correa knows that.

    Perhaps you and Mr. Think have more in common than just overt racism and misogyny?

    Oct 22nd, 2016 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Briton

    Its sad to see the most powerful country in the world slide downwards,
    As commentators have rightly stated, is this the best the Americans can come up with,

    I hope whoever wins, earns every one of those votes, and prove to the American people and the world that they [ whoever gets it ] can and will do the job as is expected of them.

    Oct 22nd, 2016 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Skip

    Trump is such a tosser. Hopefully American society can take a good long look at itself on why such an unworthy, nasty, racist, mysogonistic elitist came to be a messiah for so many people.

    First world problems seem to breee contempt for what they have.

    Oct 22nd, 2016 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +5
  • ElaineB

    @ Skip Well said.

    I think after the election there will be some dissecting of how such a great country stooped so low.

    The loss of confidence in the system and the propensity to negativity in the media has made people cynical and suspicious. Oh how easy it has been to convince people the election has been rigged. It isn't rigged.

    Campaigns are either based on fear (Trump) or hope (Clinton). Obama won on hope not realising just how bad the Republicans had fucked up the economy. He spent the transition period being briefed on how spectacularly bad the situation was. That meant almost all of his intentions had to be shelved to save the economy from complete meltdown - whilst pretending it wasn't so bad to prevent it from being self-fulfilling prophecy. Meantime the negative bollocks that was going on in D.C. was appalling behaviour. Blocking everything for the sake of party politics rather than serving the people. That has to stop.

    So, hope failed - though history will be kinder to Obama than we all feel at the moment - and that made room for a fear campaign. Whatever you think of Trump - a sociopath with enough issues to keep a conference of psychiatrists busy - he knows how to exploit people's weaknesses. He is a snake oil sale man who has been conning people for decades. He saw an opportunity to make noise and increase the exposure of his brand. I am sure even he didn't think he would get this far at the start.

    The media, ever concerned with filling 24 hours and making money, used him for that purpose without realising they were feeding the monster. That is what he is; a monster. Trump is all about Trump. If he gets elected we will have lost our super power we all looked up to. Russia and China will be stronger for it.

    Judge a man by the company he keeps. Name one person you admire who is backing Trump.

    Oct 22nd, 2016 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Kanye

    Ms. Elaine

    Newt Gingrich backs Trump


    https://www.google.ca/amp/www.thewrap.com/gettysburg-donald-trump-newt-gingrich/amp/

    Oct 22nd, 2016 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • ElaineB

    @ Kanye

    I don't click links but do you admire Newt Gingrich?

    Oct 22nd, 2016 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Kanye

    Ms B

    of course not.

    Oct 23rd, 2016 - 12:36 am - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Don Alberto

    What to me is more appaling than Donald Trump is that the Democratic Party was unable to find a better candidate. To me Hillary Clinton is only the lesser evil.

    Oct 23rd, 2016 - 03:43 am - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Skip

    Not really. It is pretty simplistic to concentrate on Clinton's faults and totally ignore the decades of experience she brings.

    Try forming an opinion based on fact and not what you are continually fed by the media, Don Alberto.

    Oct 23rd, 2016 - 04:08 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • ElaineB

    @ Kanye

    Ha! Just checking but it just underscores my point.

    @ Skip

    Clinton is tainted by the anti-establishment movement but no one can doubt her qualification and experience to be President.

    Oct 23rd, 2016 - 08:34 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • ChrisR

    @ Kanye

    I don't know where you live or what language your mother tongue is but you are not British and do not understand English logic.

    The meaning of WTF cares must be judged against what the political super-powers in the US have selected to be presidential hopefuls.

    One is a carrot topped huckster who 'shoots from the hip' and I can guarantee that unless you use a sub-machine gun you will not hit what you aim at and the other is a criminal under the Federal Law of the US.

    That's a real choice? (That's a rhetorical question, you don't have to answer it.)

    “Perhaps you and Mr. Think have more in common than just overt racism and misogyny?”

    Is that what you think of me or are you just trying to defend your pathetic understanding of English?

    Racist? I have had many coloured employees and I was always asked to attend their family weddings, etc.

    Misogyny? Do you understand the meaning of the word?

    “Dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women”: Oxford English Dictionary

    How many women, including non-white ones have you employed? Let me guess, none.

    I do detest the effect that feminazis have wrought on society, aided and abetted by people who have no experience or reality of the real situation nowadays. Even Germaine Greer has written very critically how feminism has been misused by the latest feminists knowingly making false statements about men to put them on the back foot.

    Typically we have statements like' we only want the same as the men' when what they really want is what they perceive the men have AND additional 'consideration' because they are women.

    So let me say this, the women I employed and worked alongside at GEC would NEVER use those excuses, they didn't need to, they were good anyway, that was why they were employed (just like the men).

    “Perhaps not you, as a Brit who has opted out but is bitter and cynical of others”

    I love the UK AND Uruguay but I am a realist: you should try it or get real life experience.

    Oct 23rd, 2016 - 11:54 am - Link - Report abuse -3
  • ElaineB

    When you look at Trump’s core supporter base it is without doubt the old, white, male demographic. So why are they so keen to jump on the Trump Hate Train? They were born with all the advantage cards by being white, male and the ‘American Dream’ generation. They felt entitled and held all the aces to be successful and rich. They were automatically paid more than women, people of colour and ethnic minorities and had opportunities denied to others. The system was rigged in their favour.

    So, they reach old age and have not been as successful as they felt entitled to be and they are bitter. They are looking to blame someone else for their failure to succeed even with all the advantages they had in society. So along comes Trump to give voice to their deeply held resentment and prejudices. It is the immigrants. It is African Americans. It is women. If only they had stayed down the pecking order and accepted their supremacy they could have achieved all they felt entitled to.

    It is this generation that have seen the rise of gender equality, equal pay, etc. that see their advantages being taken away. Of course, they are going to join the Trump Hate Train. At last they can voice all their deeply held prejudices and have someone else to blame for their failures. They now think the establishment is rigged against them rather than for them. They see Trump as how they should be; rich, with a trophy woman on his arm who knows her place. He exploits the system, not paying taxes, using under-paid illegal workers, under-cutting American companies for his own gain. He is not a patriot. But none of that matters because they see him as being everything they wanted to be and were not equipped to achieve.

    It is an interesting point and surely will continue to be a problem until that generation dies out and we have the more open-minded generation that embraces equal opportunity for all. It is the old, bitter, white man’s last hurrah and we can only hope the curtain falls soon.

    Oct 23rd, 2016 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Skip

    Elaine

    You described so many people on this website. It pretty much mirrors exactly what I used to say about Yankeeboy (a supporter of Trump) who now posts under a different name.

    Oct 23rd, 2016 - 12:28 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • ElaineB

    @Skip

    Indeed it does. They had it easy with all the advantages. A system rigged in their favour and they are scared that they might have to compete on a level playing field. It is why they are so nasty and bitter. It is ironic that they are the ones screaming about a rigged system.

    Oct 23rd, 2016 - 12:35 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Kanye

    Ms B

    I don't know that the white-guy (and gals) Trump supporters, both the entitled and Trump's “uneducated” core, really understand the issues intellectually. All they know is that they feel threatened and 'things aren't the way they used to be'.
    You're right, it boils down to insecurity and resentment - they just don't clearly understand why.
    Trump's message is reassuring - it's someone else's fault and Trump will make it better.

    ChrisR

    I don't doubt your patriotism.

    However, you are a cynic.
    Your generally hateful and condescending rhetoric colors every post and it contrasts all the 'reasonable' statements you make above.

    Many other posters, myself included, do not always agree 100% with Elaine B's observations, but you are the only one who uses her gender as a way to discredit her posts. Your posts are nasty vulgar personal attacks.
    From what I can see as an observer, it looks like you feel that because she is woman, she is exploiting an undeserved advantage of some kind.

    I wonder how you would react to her posts if her User Name was “Edward B”?

    Apart from that, your insights about Uruguay are interesting and enlightening for the most part.

    Oct 23rd, 2016 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • ElaineB

    @ Kanye

    Fair points. They may not understand or want to admit the reason for their resentment and fear. Trump tapped into a vein of poison running through the U.S. in the same way Farage did in the U.K.

    If Trump loses he will exploit the same people to make money for his brand.

    Oct 23rd, 2016 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Kanye

    He's already sold a lot of “Make America Great Again” caps.

    I see them all the time.

    Oct 23rd, 2016 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • ElaineB

    @ Kanye

    Are they made in China? :)

    Oct 23rd, 2016 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • ChrisR

    @ Kayne

    Thank you for a reasoned reply.

    “Your posts are nasty vulgar personal attacks.”
    With regard to EB you need to go back at least two years and see for yourself why I distrust this person, the evidence is there. She reaps what she sowed.

    A cynic? I suppose I am but when you have lived as long as I have and still have a working brain you may be somewhat the same, it helps you to avoid disappointment.

    Oct 23rd, 2016 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Kanye

    @ ChrisR

    In turn, thanks for your considered response also.

    I don't know the full story about you and ElaineB, but your posts make better reading without the personal attacks.

    Oct 23rd, 2016 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Voice

    Hey non entity above...
    It takes two to tango the personal attacks go both ways...
    Whereas you....take it upon yourself to attack with personal insults even when a post is not directed at you...
    If someone wishes to express an opinion who are you to respond with insults...
    Again...you remind me of that other little weasel TT...always trying to run with the pack...
    My considered response would have been... Butt out ya wee runt....

    Oct 24th, 2016 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse -6
  • The Voice

    Shouldnt that read butt oot? Doesnt sound like proper Scotch.

    Oct 24th, 2016 - 07:16 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • ElaineB

    An interesting discussion and good contributions with disparate ideas once again ruined by the childish insults and shit-stirrers.

    @ Kanye

    I don't expect people to agree with me, it is perfectly fine for us to have different ideas to bring to the discussion.

    @Skip

    Once again the Trumpets of the board are more interested in exposing their issues than engaging in any meaningful discussion. They really are mini-Trumps.

    To the contributors that for a while made this discussion interesting despite the Trumpets: When they go low, we go high.

    Oct 24th, 2016 - 09:46 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Voice

    Hypocrite above....like we didn't have to suffer endless days of you exposing your issues and not engaging in any meaningful discussion...
    You have a selective memory...
    Fortunately it only takes a glance at your past posts to show it...
    I won't even bother providing a link...as everyone here remembers quite well...

    Oct 24th, 2016 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse -5
  • ElaineB

    Q.E.D.

    For the record, a number of the Trumpets have more than one log-in I.D. so they use them all to boost their ratings and downgrade anyone they don't like. It is a pretty pointless indicator and a pretty desperate person who needs to log in under a different guise to agree with themselves.

    Oct 24th, 2016 - 01:01 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Voice

    You are right a number do....
    for example...
    http://en.mercopress.com/2016/06/30/scotland-pleads-to-stay-in-the-eu-but-spain-rejected-the-idea-if-uk-leaves-scotland-leaves/comments#comment444104

    http://en.mercopress.com/2016/06/30/scotland-pleads-to-stay-in-the-eu-but-spain-rejected-the-idea-if-uk-leaves-scotland-leaves/comments#comment444104

    Note Icepilot with “The Voice” image
    and Icepilot with another image
    Meaning... two different accounts...

    Oct 24th, 2016 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • ChrisR

    For those with an open mind and don't 'mind' clicking links to get the full picture, this from The Hill:
    “Clinton and Trump are tied at 41 percent apiece, a new poll shows.”

    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/302445-poll-clinton-trump-tied-nationally

    As I am always saying: it's the vote that counts (except 'the Electoral College' can really screw the result, it seems).

    Oct 24th, 2016 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Voice

    Whoops...I put the same link twice...
    Here's the other one...
    http://en.mercopress.com/2016/01/18/labor-leader-calls-for-accommodation-on-the-falklands-issue-with-argentina/comments#comment427368

    Oct 24th, 2016 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Pugol-H

    So Trump voter are disaffected Rednecks having a midlife crisis, and 40% of the electorate at that.

    Hmmm

    Sounds far too simple to me.

    Much of the language used to describe “Trump Supporters” is as pejorative as Trump himself.

    Strikingly similar to the terms used by many remainers to describe people who voted Brexit.

    I’ll give you another scenario, liberal thinking elites completely out of touch with the grass roots.

    Would we even be having this discussion if the Democrats had chosen almost any other candidate than Hillary Clinton?

    What we have is the evil of two lesser.

    Oct 24th, 2016 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @ Pugol-H

    Interesting. I have pondered why Clinton was such a shoo-in. She is undoubtedly qualified for the job but lacks charisma. Her unlikeability factor has been a real problem in the campaign. But her closest rival Sanders was unelectable.

    “So Trump voter are disaffected Rednecks having a midlife crisis, and 40% of the electorate at that.”

    I wouldn't categorise them that way. As I said in my post above they are not all as dumb as people want to portray them. I am also not sure the core voters are mid-life but closer to end-of-life. (Core demographic is not the whole story/40%) Of course, this is talking in general terms but the hatred that Trump has tapped into is unprecedented in an election campaign and as Captain Poppy pointed out it won't end with the election result, whoever wins.

    Donald Trump is dangerously stupid with a huge sense of entitlement and an over-inflated ego. He has so many character defects he shouldn't be even running in the election. But we can't ignore that he acted as a catalyst to rouse a section of society that feel bitter that the world has changed and they are not holding all the advantages anymore. Once they die out it will be less of a problem.

    Oct 24th, 2016 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    @ Pugol-H
    “So Trump voter are disaffected Rednecks having a midlife crisis, and 40% of the electorate at that.”

    No, some are for sure, but more are just people who have seen their lives get worse and feel ignored by mainstream politicians. Trump offers them someone else to blame and an easy fix. It's an illusion, but he's good at selling it and they want to believe.

    “liberal thinking elites completely out of touch with the grass roots.”

    Why liberal? Trump may or may not beat Clinton, but we've already seem him beat all the other Republican candidates. It's not just the liberal elites who are out of touch with the grassroots.

    And what kind of discussion do you think we'd be having if Sanders had won the Democratic nomination?

    Oct 24th, 2016 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • ElaineB

    Watching the SNL sketches from last Friday I thought one sentence was pretty interesting. At the end of the debate the actress playing Hillary says something like “Are you going to vote for the Republican or Trump”. Hillary probably has more in common with the GOP than Trump.

    Oct 24th, 2016 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    @ ElaineB
    No doubt that the “section of society” you describe exists, however 40% of the electorate???????

    Simply not what is happening here, any more than Tory old guard, Little Englanders could win a referendum to leave the EU, by themselves.

    Trump is appealing to more people outside your “section of society” than in it. Which, combined with Clinton as the alternative, is what makes winning a possibility for him.

    @ DemonTree
    Doesn’t look much like its Trump who is out of touch here, he seems to know exactly what buttons to push.

    Looked at another way, if the Republicans had almost any other candidate than Trump, would Clinton have much of a chance at all.

    Even with Trump as the opponent Clinton is struggling, even though she is well qualified for the post.

    Oct 24th, 2016 - 05:03 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • ElaineB

    @ Pugol-H

    As I said in my post above ”(Core demographic is not the whole story/40%) ”

    Oct 24th, 2016 - 05:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Kanye

    If the Republicans had their way, it's likely that hard-core Cruz would have been the lead candidate. Jeb Bush had no stomach for it.

    Ted Cruz is a scary draconian Christian fundamentalist. He would resonate with many traditional Rep. voters and those that didn't like Clinton, as well.

    The appeal of Trump and Bernie is that they both posed the awkward questions and addressed the issues of the common people.
    Grassroots appeal.
    The mainstream politicians like Hilary and Cruz seemed to have an unwritten agreement not to bring up hot-button issues outside of abortion

    Oct 24th, 2016 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • DemonTree

    @ Pugol-H
    Why do you think Trump won by such a landslide in the primaries? Because the Republican voters feel their own party elite have let them down and are not listening to their concerns. If they were happy with their party, they would have chosen one of the many more mainstream candidates.

    Just look at his policies; creating jobs and protectionism, plus abandoning America's influence in the world in favour of isolation. They aren't exactly standard Republican ones.

    That's why I say it's not the liberal thinking elites being out of touch that created Trump, but the conservative ones.

    Now he probably does have some appeal to more liberal leaning voters, but the fact that you say almost any other candidate would have a better chance suggests you think it's a limited one.

    Oct 24th, 2016 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Kanye

    Ms. B

    I didn't see that SNL skit, but the “Republican or Trump” was brilliant!

    I need to visit YouTube now

    Oct 24th, 2016 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • ElaineB

    @ Kanye

    If you are heading that way watch the Black Jeopardy skit too. The message is quite sweet under the obvious humour.

    Oct 24th, 2016 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • shackleton

    “Despite saying Trump has ”said a lot of dumb things,“ Clint Eastwood praised Trump for not being like the ”kiss-ass generation“ and worrying about political correctness. ”He's onto something because secretly everybody's getting tired of political correctness, kissing up,“ the actor said.”

    Is he also not one of that deplorable basket of old white men who the virtue-signalling femiNAZI ElaineB - in lock-step with Oprah Winfrey - is hoping will DIE soon in order that the “l̶e̶f̶t̶i̶s̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶d̶o̶c̶t̶r̶i̶n̶a̶t̶e̶d̶ open-minded generation that embraces equal opportunity for all” can lead leftist lemmings into the brave new world an absolute equalitarian paradise..?

    Oct 24th, 2016 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Briton

    Ladies and Gentle men,
    may I introduce to you-
    the next President of the United States of America,?????????????????????????

    we will all find out in less than two weeks.

    Oct 24th, 2016 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    @ Shackleton
    Personally I prefer political correctness to being thoughtlessly insulted. The major problem is that it's not applied to everyone; people who would never say 'coloured' are happy to laugh at rednecks and will write Trump supporters off as racists without a thought.

    Oct 24th, 2016 - 11:18 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Hepatia

    The 'rigged election' has been part of GOP mythology for some time. Trump is doing no more than running more explicitly than in the past.

    I see that there are some down ticket Republicans threating to sue - for defamation - those who are saying that they support Trump. This is the end.

    I think that Trump is no longer running for president. He's now running to launch Trump TV - the network for those that find Fox too left wing for them.

    Oct 25th, 2016 - 02:16 am - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Kanye

    Mr Hep

    You might say something intelligent in 25 years

    Oct 25th, 2016 - 02:59 am - Link - Report abuse +4
  • ElaineB

    @ Kanye

    I also loved how Trump trademarks his insulting names. Haha

    The actors have Trump and Clinton mannerisms perfect.

    Oct 25th, 2016 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    DemonTree
    I think Mr Kanye hits the nail on the head when he says:

    “The appeal of Trump and Bernie is that they both posed the awkward questions and addressed the issues of the common people.
    Grassroots appeal.
    The mainstream politicians like Hilary and Cruz seemed to have an unwritten agreement not to bring up hot-button issues outside of abortion”.

    The reason for the rise of UKIP in the UK was they opposed EU membership and migration in particular, when the political elite took membership being a good thing for granted and ignored immigration.

    At the referendum the grass roots made their choice, a choice which the elite did not foresee and many of them still can’t believe.

    Oct 25th, 2016 - 04:22 pm - Link - Report abuse +5
  • Kanye

    A lesson to be learned, you have to tackle the hard questions.

    Oct 25th, 2016 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • DemonTree

    @ Pugol-H
    I agree, to an extent. AFAIK although the Democrats and Republicans tend to have quite different social policies, their financial ones are actually quite similar. Neither questioned whether free trade was a good thing, for example. And each had their own reasons for being soft on illegal immigration.

    It's not quite true in the UK that the political elite took membership of the EU for granted, as there was always a significant Eurosceptic wing in the Tory party. And Cameron did promise to reduce immigration in his manifesto, he just failed to deliver.

    But despite that, what people saw was a lack of action on those things. And I think there were other issues that the government had been ignoring that also played into the referendum vote.

    Anyway, although I think bringing up the issues that had been ignored is a good thing, the solutions provided are not and the other consequences are even worse.

    In Britain we have seen a rise in xenophobia since the vote, and the fact some people no longer trust any kind of experts means they will be unable to make rational decisions on future issues.

    While in the US, if people really believe the vote is rigged and lose faith in democracy, it could be really disastrous.

    Oct 25th, 2016 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Heisenbergcontext

    Would anyone be really surprised if a bolt of lightening suddenly struck Donald Trump down, hopefully before November 8, leaving nothing but his hair?

    Oct 26th, 2016 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • shackleton

    I cannot understand why all the Falklands supporters here are so vehemently anti-Trump - if push ever came to shove again, Trump would be much more likely to read the riot act to the Argies. Hitlery would just try to “negotiate” - and you should know what that means. The Argies sense that ever-more-leftist Hitlery would more likely be on their side, and that should put doubt in your minds. Why not ask who Señor Sthink, and the other Argie trolls, want to win the election? Be careful what you wish for..!

    Oct 26th, 2016 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Kanye

    Trump doesn't care about the British. He doesn't know what a “Falkland” is.

    Oct 26th, 2016 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • ElaineB

    @ Kanye

    I agree. Trump is only concerned about Trump and increasing his wealth and power. We should all be concerned if Trump is in charge given the Russian military movements and practising for a nuclear war.

    Oct 26th, 2016 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Pugol-H

    DemonTree
    It’s only rigged if Trump loses.

    shackleton
    I think you’ll find Trump worries people somewhat more than the Argys do.

    Their ability to damage anybody else is virtually non-existent.

    Trump’s ability, as president of the US, is virtually un-limited.

    Oct 26th, 2016 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • ChrisR

    It seems the result will be neck and neck!

    Will the 'Carrot haired giant' do a Brexit or will 'Hitler Hil” stay upright and freeze free to win?

    The losers of course are the American voters having these two to pick from. :o(

    Oct 26th, 2016 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • shackleton

    I agree with Clint Eastwood that “Trump says a lot of dumb things” and also he is a poor debater, but I support him because he is anti-PC and straight-talking unlike double-speaking career politicians and lawyers like Hitlery. Lawyers are trained to lie, remember Nixon? Its almost impossible for a non-politician to get elected although many have tried. As a business-man - maybe not the best business-man, but he is the only one to have taken the plunge - he will surround himself with smart people and I think he will do a good job.

    Oct 26th, 2016 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Lightning

    Shackleton,

    The Donald has brought up hot potatoes that no politician will touch. Things that had to be said.

    Unfortunately, Donald is all about Donald. He will not surround himself with prudent advisors, he would govern by shooting from the hip!

    Oct 26th, 2016 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    @ shackleton
    Yes, he says the things politicians don't, and that's sometimes a good thing.

    But looking beyond his straight talking delivery, his actual message is less than impressive. Most of the policies he's proposed will either be ineffective, impractical, or both. And his 'saying what others don't' also extends to telling blatant lies and contradicting himself shamelessly.

    As for him being a businessman; he has no political experience so he won't know how to get things done in government. He doesn't have any political allies - even half of his own party don't support him - so if he is elected he's just not going to be very effective.

    And I agree with Pugol=H about the Falklands. Argentina currently has no armed forces to speak of, whereas an unpredictable Trump with his finger on the nuclear button is decidedly worrying. What if he decides to say some 'dumb things' to Putin?

    He's already declared that he may not honour the US's treaty obligations to NATO countries. That's not the sort of ally I want to rely on.

    Oct 26th, 2016 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • shackleton

    Trump has said he would put an end to illegal immigration and deport those who have already arrived illegally. I very much doubt he can achieve the latter aim but, that said, people seem to forget that this is ILLEGAL. i.e., it is a CRIMINAL offence. What would Hitlery do? She would amnesty all the illegals - maybe 20 million of them - and they would thank her by becoming life-long Democrat voters. At least until a La Raza party gained traction. Another thing he has promised is to end the scam of “anchor babies”. Surely anyone with integrity and common-sense must agree with him on at least these issues? Or is he just 100% bad..?

    Oct 27th, 2016 - 01:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Hepatia

    Even Texas is in play - well probably not really. But its close enough to worry Republicans. The 2020 election should be interesting. I do not think the GOP will recover before then so there is that the future of Texas is blue.

    Oct 27th, 2016 - 02:46 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    @ Shackleton
    Reducing illegal immigration is a perfectly reasonable aim, but building a wall on such a long border is a costly, inefficient and probably ineffective way to do it. Creating a system to check citizenship of employees and forcing employers to use it would be much easier.

    Basically Trump is raising some important questions but he has all the wrong answers.

    As for anchor babies, most countries do not have birthright citizenship so it would not be unreasonable to change the law, as long as it is done fairly.

    Oct 27th, 2016 - 07:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ DemonTree

    Do you wait until any infection of a cut injury is glowing red in the dark and you feel faint when you dry the puss up before you go to the nurse who proceeds to berate you about putting your life at risk?

    So why do you expect the US to happily allow the illegals into the country, go wherever they wish and then try to get them?

    The UK tried your suggestion, it's still the law, but it doesn't work: there are too many pitfalls for the real data to hide in. Now imagine the UK is the size of the US.

    And of course the pols in Washington would have to give up their gardeners, cooks, housekeepers and mistresses / 'man friends'. Now that would be going too far!

    Oct 27th, 2016 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @ ChrisR
    What a charming simile. Just what I wanted to read while eating my lunch.

    The point of making it harder for illegal immigrants to find work is to reduce their motivation to come to the US in the first place. As long as the draw is there, people will keep trying to find ways to come, and when you stop them they'll just look for alternative routes. Whereas removing the motivation cuts off the problem at the source.

    As for stopping them entering the US, a fence would probably work if the US-Mexico border was a lot shorter (there is really no reason at all to pay the additional expenses of a wall), but it's 3,201 km long! Neither a fence nor a wall is much use if you don't patrol it, so the operating costs would be astronomical, quite apart from the expense of building the thing in the first place. This policy is pure populism, designed to sound good to Trump's supporters rather than actually achieve anything.

    And yes, no doubt some of the reluctance about tackling illegal immigration in Washington is because it would be inconvenient for the politicians and their friends. No more cheap labour to pick their tomatoes, work in their warehouses or build their hotels!

    Oct 27th, 2016 - 12:02 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • shackleton

    @Demon Tree

    “Creating a system to check citizenship of employees and forcing employers to use it would be much easier.”

    I agree with you on this point but I imagine there is already such a law in place. In order to strengthen that law you would need a special force to raid certain workplaces - and, for sure, those “certain workplaces” would invariably be owned by immigrants, probably Hispanic immigrants. So in order to effectively crack down on the illegals the authorities would have to “racially-profile”. Personally I am totally supportive of racial-profiling - it would have prevented 9/11 to name just one example - but you can imagine the uproar amongst the “victim” classes and their supporters and enablers on the left.

    Oct 27th, 2016 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    @shackleton
    When I was last in the US, they told me that “A Lawyer, is the larval phase of a politician”.

    @Hepatia
    The US will return Texas to Mexico within the next 25 years.

    Then YOU will have to move to Washington state, to avoid being back in a banana republic.

    @DemonTree
    Walls done properly do work, just ask the Israelis.

    However as you say, the cost of building one on this scale would be prohibitive, never mind the running costs.

    Also then cross border traffic and coastlines would all have to be policed, soon it would look like a cross between The Mediterranean and Calais.

    It would be possible to improve on the current situation though.

    Oct 27th, 2016 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • DemonTree

    @ shackleton
    Yes, there is already such a system - called E-Verify - but it's not compulsory for most employers, so they don't bother.

    And there are already a couple of different agencies who do workplace raids. But their major problem is lack of funds and staff, not racial profiling. I'm not sure if more money for government agencies would be a popular policy among Trump's supporters though, and it doesn't exactly grab the headlines like building a wall does.

    The most effective option would be to require a national ID card in the US, preferably with some kind of bio-metric information to prevent identity theft. I suspect most Americans would object to this idea however.

    @ Pugol-H
    Yes, I did say a fence could work if the border was shorter. But it's not, so the US will need to find other solutions.

    Oct 27th, 2016 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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