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CFK says she is a victim of political harassment - equals her case to Lula's

Tuesday, November 1st 2016 - 07:30 UTC
Full article 161 comments

The former Argentine president said she is no friends with entrepreneur Lazaro Baez, who was awarded around 80 percent of all public works in the province of Santa Cruz when governed by her late husband and eventually president Nestor Kirchner. Read full article

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  • Englander

    What?
    Falklands not mentioned once!
    Is she sickening after something?

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 10:46 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • CapiTrollism_is_back!!

    I just thought about this... who would have thought this 3 years ago???

    Angela Merkel spearheading the German miracle.
    Dilma Rouseff spearheading the economically ever more powerful Brazil.
    Michelle Bachele spearheading the developed bound Chile.
    Park Geun Hye spearheading a culturally and financially roaring Korea.
    CFK... no one talked about her. Argentina was a backwater in comparison to the above.

    Three years later...

    Merkel legacy destroyed in Europe by the refugee policy and handling, the German economy sputtering.
    Dilma impeached and convicted, the Brazilian economy in a depression.
    Park Geun Hye embroiled in a massive scandal that has doomed her legacy and may get her impeached.

    Cristina Kirchner? Kept Argentina independent of the vultures, did NOT hand an empty treasury to Macri as so many claimed, and was not impeached nor did she hand a country in total collapse. Economic issues yes, but not crisis... She may end up being rergarded historically as the most successful of the four!

    Who'd thunk it?? :)

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse -13
  • British_Kirchnerist

    She is right, this is a disgrace. Macri is sliding towards tyranny, in the exact way - trying to jail the main opposition - that I predicted almost a year ago. I take no pleasure in being proven right. Time for an international defence campaign, and solidarity with Cristina and all the people of Argentina suffering under and struggling against this appalling government. At least now in Britain we have a Labour Party up to such a task...

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 11:57 am - Link - Report abuse -15
  • Mendoza Canadian

    La cretina is a pathological liar. Face it all you who support this woman. She is deranged beyond recognition as a human being much less a former head of state.

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse +11
  • Englander

    Don't know what you two are on.
    Kirchner was a disaster
    Macri has made a good start and will go down as one of Argentina's best. him a chance

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse +8
  • Think

    British Kirchnerist...

    Nice to have you back...
    Want to trade? We give you Macri... You give us Corbyn ;-)
    Now seriously... Don't worry so much... in 11 months we have midterm elections and as things are looking right now, Mme. KIRCHNER will soon be back...

    Kind regards
    El Think, Patagonia...

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 12:11 pm - Link - Report abuse -13
  • CapiTrollism_is_back!!

    Unlike what people here seem to think, I give everyone a chance.

    I criticized Kirchner too. I criticized Macri here. I am not a partisan as some here believe, I am for all argentines over foreigners. If I have to choose between an Argentine strain of the gonorrhea virus and a foreign supermodel, I choose gonorrhea.

    But my point is still valid, look at Bachelet's reputation in Chile now...

    It will be that 3 years ago everyone thought CFK would rank last in the 2010 “Wave of Women presidents”, but now it is clear it will be thus:

    1. CFK
    2. HRC
    3. A Merkel
    4. M Bachelet
    5. PHY
    6. T May
    7. D Rousseff

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 12:20 pm - Link - Report abuse -15
  • Brit Bob

    This is the woman who said that the Falkland Islanders are 'just squatters' and doubted whether they had any rights.

    Guess she was wrong: https://www.academia.edu/17799157/Falklands_-_Some_Relevant_International_Law

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 12:25 pm - Link - Report abuse +9
  • DemonTree

    @ Capi
    Not partisan! ROFLMFAO. Do you even know the meaning of the word?

    How on earth does May get onto your list anyway? She's neither a president nor was she in power in 2010. In fact you could throw out half your entries for one or other of those reasons, and we can hardly judge Clinton when she may not even be elected, but considering the list anyway I think Merkel will easily come out on top.

    @ British_Kirchnerist
    Serious question: How does a Brit come to even hear of CFK let alone support her?

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse +9
  • CapiTrollism_is_back!!

    So you tell me why do you laugh me that I say I am not partisan? I am not, if people here are retarded that is not my problem. I criticized CFK but side with her when foreigners came to bully Argentina. I criticize Macri but side with him when foreigners come to bully us again. Why is that so hard for some here to understand? And why is it OK for you all to come together under external threat but not argentines? (which then you call sell outs if they side with Argentina over UK, or some other foreign entity).

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse -12
  • DemonTree

    @ Capi
    If you blindly support Argentina then you are clearly partisan. It doesn't just mean supporting one political party over another. And I laughed because of your daft gonorrhoea vs supermodel choice; I don't believe you, not that you'd ever have the chance anyway.

    As for coming together under external threat, I haven't seen anyone say you can't, but if you think people posting on this forum are a threat to Argentina then you have bigger problems.

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse +9
  • CapiTrollism_is_back!!

    I think they are. They reflect were various societies are going. Look at your country, look at who may be president in NorthAmoland in a week. Look at the far right in Germany, Netherlands, Poland, Northern Italy, France, etc... Look at Russia's militarism, China's encroachment. I think WWIII is inevitable and Argentina should stay neutral in a policy of utter isolationism.

    With the current UK gov and the possible US gov, I don't think anyone can take those two countries seriously anymore as any model of democracy, or forward looking societies. It is obvious the direction they have chosen is the one of small-minded ethnocentrism and tribal divisions of the world.

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse -9
  • Kanye

    “t is obvious the direction they have chosen is the one of small-minded ethnocentrism and tribal divisions of the world.”

    Hypocrite

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse +9
  • DemonTree

    @ Capi
    Hmmm, did you really not know the meaning of 'partisan'?

    I can promise you, posters here are not at all reflective of any society, and I assume you and Think are not typical of Argentina either.

    How is the current UK gov not democratic? They held a referendum and now they are implementing it, even though many of them personally disagree with the result. I think it's a bad direction for the country to take but it is democracy.

    I don't like the things you mentioned and I think they're bad news for the world, but predicting WWIII is ridiculous and histrionic; you're far more xenophobic and isolationist than Trump's fans and the Brexiters anyway.

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse +9
  • The Voice

    Nostril, please expain how the UK is no longer a democracy? Or even how the USA isnt? Both countries followed the rules their parliaments made.
    You dont know what you are talking about as usual.

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse +9
  • CapiTrollism_is_back!!

    ... and the way foreigners act here and in other websites against Argentines I have good reasons to be.

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 03:27 pm - Link - Report abuse -10
  • DemonTree

    So why is it okay for Argentines to be isolationist and xenophobic but not for Americans or British people to be?

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse +8
  • gordo1

    British_Kirchnerist!!??

    Explain yourself, nabo!

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Jack Bauer

    Trolly
    “ If I have to choose between an Argentine strain of the gonorrhea virus and a foreign supermodel, I choose gonorrhea.”

    Well, by the sound of your reasoning, looks like you made your choice quite some time ago.... maybe it's time you had your brain checked.

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse +10
  • Zaphod102

    Troll,

    “ If I have to choose between an Argentine strain of the gonorrhea virus and a foreign supermodel, I choose gonorrhea.”

    It says something about your life style that this is something that you consider.

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse +8
  • Marti Llazo

    During these proceedings CFK has been insisting she is neither a friend nor a business associate of Báez. And now the Báez family attorney is presenting evidence that shows just how closely CFK and Baez were connected in businesses until a year ago... just before the elections.

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse +12
  • ElaineB

    CFK is such a victim; not.

    TTT you sound more silly with each passing year. When are you going to get over being dumped by an English girl who made fun of your big feet? Come on, time to move on.

    BK long time no see. Still pinning posters of CFK to you wall? Still running her fan club? Oh, dear.

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse +6
  • chronic

    Monkeys and the old bat prattling on about nothing.

    Cretina, remember:

    All rgs lie.

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    @ ElaineB
    Big feet? What's that all about?

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 07:03 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Clyde15

    If I remember in one of his moments of revelation he said he had about size 13 feet...or thereabouts

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • axel arg

    IF IT SOPOSES THAT.........
    Although it's quite difficult to have a serious conversation about this issues, it's necesary and fair to say that not all people here have such mediocre mentalities.
    I have always said that i would never put my hands on fire to defend the honesty of a politician, in fact, i don't even do it for Cristina, beyond the love and admiration i feel for what she represents, i can't assure that she is guilty or inocent, anyway, i am not and idiot either to ignore that in some cases there is a true persecution against her, leaded by Macri, his adict press, and his friends in judicial power.
    If it soposes that evidences against her are so contundent, then i wonder why this government creates stupid accusations to blame the former president, as it does with the future dollar cause, or with Nisman's denounce, which was presented by a member of the let's change alliance, beside,if it soposes also that she must be judged for this case, then i also wonder why neather ex chieves of government, nor ex governors, and intendants are summoned to declare before justice, it's well known that public works are always executed by the national government, the provincial one, and by the intendances.
    The point is that the government of the rich is very affraid for a sopose return of Cristina in 2019, especially in a context of economic crisis, because of the regressive measures taken by Macri and his ceos ministers.
    In the country there are still some injudicious people who really believe the lie of the government, about what they call, ''heavy inherance'', however they can't explain that if it soposes that Macri didn't have any other alternative than making hard cuts, because the situation they found when they took office was a disaster, how could they diminish such important taxes, as they did with the agrarian sector, and the mining one?.

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse -6
  • Enrique Massot

    Cristina went to the court and told her side of the story, which she repeated in the street, surrounded by reporters and people. She did not speak from behind barriers as Macri does. She clearly explained she is all for a serious investigation of the way public works contracts are attributed in Argentina--and she makes a lot of sense. Macri, by comparison, sounds like a snake oil salesman voicing his product in a town's square.

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 08:36 pm - Link - Report abuse -9
  • Tarquin Fin

    Enrique,

    Cristina avoided talking directly to the press. She feared inquisitive questions. That´s why she always used “Cadena Nacional”:
    Macri might sound like a snake oil merchant. Cristina sounds like she's warning everybody to repent because the end of the world is near.

    Axel,

    Don't you think a heavy inheritance exists? To be fair, this “heavy inheritance” is not just the fault of the K dinasty, I presume it goes back to Charles I (House of Anillaco).
    Anyway, really?

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Think

    Sr.Massot
    Not only that...
    Seems that, when the police started to repress the public she got out of the car, daring the police to hit her, not the people...
    Qué mina corajuda!

    Tarquin Fin...
    You presume the “Pesada Herencia” goes back to Charles I (House of Anillaco)?
    I Think it started earlier... with *Charles O ( House of Milicojueputa)...
    * (O as in Onganía)

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 09:39 pm - Link - Report abuse -7
  • Zaphod102

    “Cristina went to the court and told her side of the story...”

    ...and didn't answer any of the questions she was asked. Why not?

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse +6
  • Marti Llazo

    KepiTroll: “Cristina Kirchner? Kept Argentina independent of the vultures”

    Actually, CFK's policies to avoid paying lawful debts cost the country many billions, not just in lost opportunities but in interest and other negative impacts -- that are still keeping investment from considering Argentina.

    Then in 2015 alone, the CFK government increased the national debt by US$18.3 billion.

    During the CFK regime the Argentine peso lost about 66 percent of its value against the dollar.

    That US$33 billion that CFK supposedly left at the end of her reign? 11 billion of that was actually Chinese yuan swaps, not dollars (actually borrowed money). 8 billion was in central bank treasury savings bonds (also borrowed money). Another 2.5 billion or so were what the central bank still held that would have been paid to other bondholders but which Griesa had effectively frozen since Argentina was barred from paying the canje/exchange bondholders without also paying the other creditors (hedge funds, et alia). So what CFK left in the treasury was in effect practically nothing, though many Argies have been brainwashed to the point of believing otherwise.

    Nov 01st, 2016 - 10:58 pm - Link - Report abuse +5
  • Enrique Massot

    Think:
    Indeed, During Cristina's government the antiriot police had become a bad memory. Macri and his lieutenant Patricia Bullrich haven't hesitated in using it against Argentines, and posted a huge number when Crisina went to Comodoro Py.
    As usual, the Argentine dominant class hates and fears the people. Mind you, anyone would fear backlash when doing what they are doing to the majority of the population.

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 12:26 am - Link - Report abuse -7
  • Marti Llazo

    Looks like some of CFK's mafiosos fired a few shots at the vehicle used by the personnel guarding one of the witnesses in the investigation into CFK's money laundering. Risky business, being a witness against the Kirchners. Not sure I would trust the witness protection programme in this country.

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 01:06 am - Link - Report abuse +6
  • Tarquin Fin

    Think,

    I would say it all started with the house of U (as in Uriburu) and then went on with the house of F (as in Farrell). Enter the house of P (as in Peron), the house of R (as in Rojas) and finally, closing the loop, the house of O ... all of them “Milicos hijos de puta”.

    Enrique,

    Do you still think (no pun intended) that there is just one -evil and despicable- dominant class in the country?
    A man your age should know better.

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 02:49 am - Link - Report abuse +8
  • Think

    Esrimado pebete...

    En mi humilde opinión, nuestea pesada herencia y profunda grieta viene desde la época de Juan Galo y Enrique....

    Si los gronchos laburantes esos de la Burgio estuvieran colectivamente al mando..., este país andaría mucho mejor...
    (Con un toquecito paquete de Belgrano..., porsu ;-)

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 05:39 am - Link - Report abuse -9
  • ElaineB

    @ Demon Tree

    Over the years we have been privy to parts of TTT's life and what is truly behind his isolationist mentality and blind hatred of the English. It all boils down to a personal rejection he suffered and has never been able to move on from. He mentioned exceptionally large feet run in his family.
    He is clearly a young man with issues but what a waste of a life. He could easily be channeling his abilities into something positive.

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 07:49 am - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Think

    Cougar, spinnster, successful sisters misogynyst and porky teller extraordinaire on all things Argentinean in general and male posters that see through you in particular..., just above...

    Over the years we have indeed been privy to parts of TTT's life and what is truly behind his isolationist mentality and not so blind hatred of the English. It all boils down to a reaction against insulting Engrish posters in here and his public predisposition to trolling.
    He mentioned indeed exceptionally large feet run in his family.
    He is clearly a young man with issues (what young mant hasn't “issues”) but he wil surely overcome them in time. He surely is already channeling his abilities into something positive whilst having some fun trolling in here at MercoPress...

    Keep the good work Toby...
    And for Christ's sake..., dont giive the Cougar your address ;-)

    Saludos del Think
    Chubut, Patagonia, Argentina...

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 08:52 am - Link - Report abuse -9
  • DemonTree

    Think, what have you got against Elaine? Just that she's a woman?

    As for our resident troll, there certainly are some insulting posters on here, some of them even English. I'm happy he's posting to prove Argentines can be just as crazy and prejudiced. ;)

    Still don't see why his shoe size has any relevancy though.

    Also I can see why you all want to get rid of your army now. Argentina has had way too many military governments!

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 12:57 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • ElaineB

    @ Demon Tree

    Think and I had a run in some while ago whilst he was displaying his misogyny in all its glory. He tried hard to intimidate me with some disgusting talk but only served to out himself as a revolting, perverted individual. If he was truly representative of Argentine men is would be sad. He isn't, of course.

    TTT is not unintelligent. If he could get over his issues he could be a useful member of society. Sadly, little rejections and teasing from some random European about his shoe-size has stunted his progress towards anything like a useful life. Why he lets it continue to control his life is puzzling.

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree

    You say...:
    “Think, what have you got against Elaine? Just that she's a woman?”
    I say...:
    Don't be silly, boy...
    I luuuuuv those wondeful creatures...
    Have been married trice... Besides... me mom was a Woman...

    You say...:
    “Still don't see why his shoe size has any relevancy though.”
    I say...:
    Me neither...

    You say...:
    “Also I can see why you all want to get rid of your army now. Argentina has had way too many military governments!”
    I say...:
    Been reading a bit of Argie History with an open mind..., huhhhhh?
    Do the same exercise with World History and you will see why we all shoud want to get rid of our armies... now.

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse -5
  • CapiTrollism_is_back!!

    Just for the record, I mentioned that at one time I knew an English girl, a so-called “Geordie”, but I never had any deep relation. All I said was that I had seen the EUian mentality first hand, therefore I am qualified to expound on what makes the average EUian tick (conquest, racism, colonialism, superciliousness, all are good examples of what makes an EUian, including Anglos, happy at the heart).

    As for my foot size, yes it is very large. I mentioned that once because some Britiish-Chilean poster (which I still believe to be Marti Llazo today, at the the time “Chichureo”), was first to bring up the complaint that Argentine women are good looking but have big feet (compared to Chilean women). I agreed, saying that Argentines tend to have big feet compared to Chilean women. I agreed with him, siting m family as an example. Elaine then disagreed saying European women have the same shoe size, but of course European women are taller so proportionally speaking my statement still stands. Argentine women often go to Miami to find shoes,and the biggest “big feet” society in Spanish is from Argentina.

    Again, Jade and Obsidian beach selling job open, contact Arifu Gobakuwi “Black Cheetah” from Senegal at La Plata Bus station, taxi deck, behind coffee shop.

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse -5
  • The Voice

    Highly amusing that Stink makes out that he knows it all when he so obviously knows nuuuuthing (as Manuel once said). Married Thrice? Not surprising for a crotch sniffing misogynist, obviously no decent woman could stand him for too long!

    I should take your own advice Stink and read some history (but always look at who is writing it just as you would have learned if you actually had received any decent higher education). Then, you would have a clearer idea of the real situation in the South Atlantic.

    Your one redeeming feature is that you give us almost constant entertainment. Everyone enjoys laughing at clowns.

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • ElaineB

    “Marti Llazo today, at the the time “Chichureo”” Really? You could be right but they don't seem the same to me.

    Nooooo I never said that. I have an average shoe size - maybe slightly smaller than average - and I think shoes in Argentina tend to be smaller than offered in the U.K. but probably similar to Italy. My female friends in Argentina buy their shoes in Argentina.

    You mentioned your feet again when you said you and your cousin were picked on for having big feet. I told you to get over it. Kids pick on kids for anything, it is part of the growing-up - learning to negotiate, stage of development. If it hadn't been your feet it would be something else.

    As for the English woman you were extremely rude about her and when challenged it was your reaction to being rejected at the root. WHy base a negative opinion on one woman? Now you state you don't date any women which is a bit extreme from one bad experience.

    You know, if you continue to draw conclusions about people from the internet you are going to have a very skewed view of life. You spend far too much time exchanging negative views and conspiracy theories. That is not real life. There are some pretty grim people claiming to be Argentines on this site but I know they don't represent all Argentines. My real-life experience of Argentines is 99% positive.

    Honestly, do you really think anyone on here wants a job hawking on beaches in Argentina?

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • The Voice

    Nostril, how does it feel to be an object of pity? Man up! The hatred you display diminishes you, not us. Your country has the status of a basket case because of poor leadership and the pursuit of doomed causes. No reason for you, an alleged inhabitant, to be one too. Hobbits had big feet and everyone loved them. But Gollum was a sick individual full of angst envy and sorrow. Which one are you going to be?

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • DemonTree

    @ Think
    “I luuuuuv those wondeful creatures...”

    But do you respect them?

    “Do the same exercise with World History and you will see why we all shoud want to get rid of our armies... now.”

    Yeeeah, if all the other countries go first, then sure.

    @ Capi
    You've met one woman, who soon won't be an EU citizen any more by the way, and that qualifies you to judge all Europeans? I wonder what she thought of you, and if she goes around telling people all Argentines are the same?

    How tall are you anyway? And is that size 13 in British shoe sizes or something else?

    Also you really don't date? That explains a lot...

    @ ElaineB
    Heh, maybe he really is a productive member of society when he's not posting on here. It's not like we know any different.

    And that job on a beach in Argentina sounds strangely attractive when I'm in the office at 5pm and it's already dark outside. I hate winter. :(

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 05:13 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • ElaineB

    I should add that my positive experience of 99% is making allowance for the fact that some have been brainwashed over the Falklands. They can't help it. That said none of them are rabid about it as you would assume from this message board. They don't really care too much about it, mush more concerned with getting through the day.

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree

    You ask...:
    But do you respect them? (Women... N. A.)
    I say...:
    Don't be silly, boy...
    What is luuuuuuuuuuuv without respect...?
    They are like Ebony and Ivory... living together in perfect harmony...

    I include a picture of a typical Argentinean Jade and Obsidian beach customer...
    http://i60.tinypic.com/1ywjs3.jpg
    Enjoy the office... ;-)

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse -5
  • Tarquin Fin

    Elaine,

    I just love your posts.

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Think

    Ineresting video...

    Argentinean reality...

    One brave woman against 600 robocops...

    Brave woman tells robocops to hit her..., not the people...

    Robcops dissapear..., brave woman embeds with her people...

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H8OCPASoUjo

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse -5
  • Marti Llazo

    A thief among her thieves.

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 06:25 pm - Link - Report abuse +5
  • DemonTree

    @ Think
    Yeah, you're really demonstrating that.

    Why was the crowd in the video there anyway? This was after CFK went to court right? Were the police expecting violence?

    And I think I'll stick with the office, thanks all the same.

    @ ElaineB
    How brainwashed is the average person, really? Did they approve of the sanctions etc that the previous government imposed?

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    TWIMC

    During the twelve years of the Kirchner administration, the freedom of gathering and demonstration for friend or foe was almost absolute in Argentina...

    During the twelve years of the Kirchner administration, the police was present at every demonstration in low numbers, normal uniforms and UNARMED...

    During the twelve years of the Kirchner administration, if a demonstration was deemed to be potencially dangerous, the small UNARMED police force in the frontline was discreetly backed up by anti riot groups in the background armed exclusively with tear gas launchers and rubber bullets...

    During the twelve years of the Kirchner administration, there was not one dead demonstrant, not one injured demonstrant, not one tear gassed or rubber bulleted demonstration in Argentina...

    ... Yesterday the current administration deployed more than 600 heavy armoured robocop looking policeman armed with REAL guns loaded with LIVE ammunition against a peaceful, legal demonstration of some 10,000 citizens...

    The video I linked above speaks for itself...
    Luckily our police force has learned something in those past 12 years and choose visely to step aside and stop the intended provocation...

    Think is happy about that and can't wait for the midterm elections in just 11 months that will hopefully set us on the right track again...

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse -6
  • Marti Llazo

    Ah, yes... those darling Argentine police... and Tink lying to us as usual.....

    -----------

    2011: “.....a combination of tear gas, and rubber and lead bullets. What is certain is that four people—one police officer and three civilians—died during the clashes......” “....The incident echoed last year’s brutal police evictions in Formosa province and the Parque Interamericano in the Buenos Aires neighbourhood of Villa Soldati. In both cases, several protestors died and many more were injured....”

    http://www.argentinaindependent.com/socialissues/humanrights/police-violence-argentinas-never-ending-story/

    -------
    2013: “....A protest against a new city project at Hospital Borda turned into a violent confrontation with the Metropolitan Police on Friday morning, resulting in more than 30 injuries and at least five people detained....”

    http://www.argentinaindependent.com/socialissues/humanrights/police-violence-argentinas-never-ending-story/

    ------------

    Aug 2015: “Tucumán: Several Injured After Police Suppress Protest”

    http://www.argentinaindependent.com/socialissues/humanrights/police-violence-argentinas-never-ending-story/

    -------------

    “Police brutality should be front-page news in Argentina ”

    http://www.argentinaindependent.com/socialissues/humanrights/police-violence-argentinas-never-ending-story/
    .........

    “Argentina Police Brutality: 'Mafia' Cops in Buenos Aires”

    http://www.argentinaindependent.com/socialissues/humanrights/police-violence-argentinas-never-ending-story/

    -------------

    July 2015 demonstration: ...“Border Guards violently dispersed a protest by employees of the 60 bus line who were demonstrating against layoffs.....”

    http://www.argentinaindependent.com/socialissues/humanrights/police-violence-argentinas-never-ending-story/

    ----------

    http://www.argentinaindependent.com/socialissues/humanrights/police-violence-argentinas-never-ending-story/

    ---------

    August 2015: “ ... police on foot and on horseback charged against the crowd, tear gas and rubber bullets..”

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse +6
  • Kanye

    Mr Think says,

    “During the twelve years of the Kirchner administration, there was not one dead demonstrant, not one injured demonstrant, not one tear gassed or rubber bulleted demonstration in Argentina”

    Meanwhile,
    Documented news accounts say,

    ”2011: “.....a combination of tear gas, and rubber and lead bullets. What is certain is that four people—one police officer and three civilians—died during the clashes......” “....The incident echoed last year’s brutal police evictions in Formosa province and the Parque Interamericano in the Buenos Aires neighbourhood of Villa Soldati. In both cases, several protestors died and many more were injured....”

    http://www.argentinaindependent.com/socialissues/humanrights/police-violence-argentinas-never-ending-story/

    Why would Mr. Think lie?
    What's in it for him?

    He hasn't a hope of ever acquiring the moral high ground.

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Think

    Well..., well..., well...

    I gave the turnips a couple of hours to take my bait and..., after some frantic googleing..., two small ones did...

    Both came with the same example...: The brutal 2010 police repression in the Parque Indoamericano that took two persons lives and left 12 injured...

    Question 1)...: Where is the Parque Indoamericano situated...?
    Answer 1).....: In the City of Buenos Aires...

    Question 2)...: Who ordered the bloody police repression at the Parque Indoamericano...?
    Answer 2).....: The Mayor of the City of Buenos Aires...

    Question 3)...: Who was the Mayor of the City of Buenos Aires in 2010...?
    Answer 3).....: The Mayor's name was Mauricio Macri, current President of Argentina...

    Question 4)...: Was or is Mr. Mauricio Macri somehow related to the Kirchner administration...?
    Answer 4).....: Nope...
    http://www.pagina12.com.ar/diario/elpais/1-158449-2010-12-10.html

    Geeeeee....
    This Anglo turnips are toooo easy...
    Lucky for them that I practice Catch & Release...

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 10:41 pm - Link - Report abuse -6
  • Kanye

    Mr Think says,

    ”“During the twelve years of the Kirchner administration, there was not one dead demonstrant, not one injured demonstrant, not one tear gassed or rubber bulleted demonstration in ARGENTINA ”

    We know that's not true.

    Why would Think lie?

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Think

    Same procedure with the other failed links from Anglo Turnip Marti Llazo

    Question 1)...: Where are the Borda Hospital amd the Bus Line 60 situated...?
    Answer 1).....: In the City of Buenos Aires...

    Question 2)...: Who ordered the bloody police repression at the Borda and Line 60...?
    Answer 2).....: The Mayor of the City of Buenos Aires...

    Question 3)...: Who was the Mayor of the City of Buenos Aires in 2013 & 2015...?
    Answer 3).....: The Mayor's name was Mauricio Macri, current President of Argentina...

    Question 4)...: Was or is Mr. Mauricio Macri somehow related to the Kirchner administration...?
    Answer 4).....: Nope...

    Geeeeee....
    This Anglo turnips are toooo easy...
    Lucky for them that I practice Catch & Release...

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 11:00 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    I suppose Tucumán is also in Buenos Aires, Think?

    http://www.argentinaindependent.com/currentaffairs/latest-news/newsfromargentina/tucuman-several-injured-after-police-suppress-protest/

    Strangely you missed that one out of your list.

    And besides, you said none in Argentina, not none in Argentina except for the capital city, which surely has the most demonstrations. Can't blame them for replying to what you actually said.

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse +5
  • Think

    Call it a “Poetic Licence” Mr. DemonTree...

    Fact is that the Kirchner administration tried its best to de-brutalize our police farces...

    Fact is that during the last 12 years there was not one repression episode ordered by the Kirchner administration...

    Fact is that the repression episodes that were in the last 12 years were ordered by the opposition or the rancid oligarchy that still controls in a quasi feudal way some of the northern provinces of Argentina...

    Nov 02nd, 2016 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse -5
  • DemonTree

    @ Think
    Poetic licence to insult other posters for disproving your exaggerations?

    Who is in charge of the police in Buenos Aires anyway? Wikipedia says it's the national government, not the Mayor. Is that not true?

    Anyway, I can believe they tried to de-brutalise the police force, but less so that they succeeded. Even less that there were no 'repression episodes' when there have been violent protests during those years.

    I suppose you will say this is also in Buenos Aires, but the police here look pretty similarly dressed to the ones in your video and it says they were using tear gas. I can't really blame them either seeing those protesters.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXfiJ70GMXI

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Marti Llazo

    Tink's words: “ During the twelve years of the Kirchner administration, there was not one dead demonstrant, not one injured demonstrant, not one tear gassed or rubber bulleted demonstration in Argentina...”

    I think we have effectively demonstrated that Tink was lying.

    -------------

    Another of the many dark sides of Kirchnerism:

    “During the Kirchner Administrations, the government used advertising dollars and other public policies to favor those who were pro-government and to punish those who challenged or
    spoke out against the government. The government also threatened economists who sought to produce and publish more accurate inflation figures, but Congress supported and published the economists’ work. Here again, the executive branch was acting with impunity to suppress free speech.”

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 12:20 am - Link - Report abuse +5
  • Think

    Mr. Demontree
    If you want to discuss Argentinean politics, try at least to acquire a minimum of information...
    Try , for example, to google “Argentina, Policia Metropolitana”
    By the way... The video you posted can not be called “ Police Repression”...
    Not in Argentina, not in England, not in China...
    Just normal police business against an exalted mob...


    Nice to see you other small fishes wildly wiggling about...: “Think said this” and “Think said that” ... having worked so hard to prove me point...:
    The Kirchner administration did not repress the people during its 12 years of administration...
    The Macri administration does...

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 12:58 am - Link - Report abuse -4
  • Marti Llazo

    ”According to a 2010 study by The Latin American Public Opinion Project (LAPOP) at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee, 8.7% of the Argentine population were subjected to some form of violence and abuse by the Argentine police forces in 2009—the highest count in Latin America.“

    -----------

    Among the Argentine police agencies, who did the most killing under the KK government? Why, it was the federal police, under the KK executive branch: 2015:

    ”De los 126 particulares muertos registrados por la base del CELS en 2015, 53 fueron ultimados por la Policía Federal, 49 por la Policía Bonaerense, cinco por la Policía Metropolitana, tres por las policías locales, tres por la Prefectura, uno por Gendarmería, otro por un funcionario del Ejército, dos por el Servicio Penitenciario Federal y tres por el Servicio
    Penitenciario Bonaerense. “ ”....en los últimos tres años, hemos registrado más muertes ocasionadas por la Policía Federal que por la Bonaerense...”

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 01:56 am - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Kanye

    Mr Think never should have brought up this subject - now he's shown himself to be the lying smarmy dick he really is.

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 02:27 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Don Alberto

    She equals her case to Lula's. That's a confession?

    Lula will stand trial for allegations of corruption, money laundering and justice obstruction.

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 03:04 am - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Marti Llazo

    Tink: “The Kirchner administration did not repress the people during its 12 years of administration...”

    Let's hear this again:

    -- The KK government sought to silence criticism by hampering the ability of the opposition media as well as individual critics. This is another form of “repression.”

    “Conflict between Kirchnerism and the media ”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_between_Kirchnerism_and_the_media

    “Argentina's Kirchner Targets the Press - As the state-run economy hits the skids, the government responds with a crackdown on the free press”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_between_Kirchnerism_and_the_media

    Keep up the mendacity, Tink. I've got another thousand references covering the repression by the KK government.

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 03:26 am - Link - Report abuse +4
  • ElaineB

    @ Demon Tree

    Yes, brainwashed. From kindergarten they are played cartoon videos in school showing how the English Pirates stole their mythical Malvinas. It is embedded throughout their education. It makes for some interesting discussions. One of my dearest friends there absolutely believes the propaganda - though has nothing against the English personally. One time we had a detailed discussion about everything she had been taught vs. facts. As I dismantled her theory she became very unsettled - like a young child who had just been told Santa Claus doesn't exist. But it was very interesting to hear how the mythology is woven throughout their education and society to the point where they believe it completely.

    We are still best of friends. The conversation affirmed once again that people believe what they want to believe, no matter the facts.

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 06:48 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • CapiTrollism_is_back!!

    Shoes and clothes in the UK are bigger than continental Europe simply because the UK is fatter than continental Europe, you are afterall the 51st state politically and in many ways culturally. It's a well known fact obesity is a bigger problem in the island, and when our obese obviously you need wider or larger shoes, and bras.

    Time to hit the gym and go to the dentist.

    I can judge any nationality based on one encounter, absolutely. Of course I can later amend my views. I have not had to amend them here thus far.

    Europeans still want to plant flags elsewhere, to colonize elsewhere (ask Pugol), want to erradicate the Argentine population (ask Conqueror), want to punish Argentina (ask several others here) for the same things the UK does, etc, etc. And what with other encounters with EUians just forces me to adopt a hard-line attitude of no negotiation without apologiation.

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 07:39 am - Link - Report abuse -5
  • Think

    Anglo Turnip Martillazo kindly links us above to a very good article in Wikpedia...:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_between_Kirchnerism_and_the_media

    I reccomend reading it, as I just did, and strangely enough...:

    - 1) None of the text MartiLlazo includes in -“Brackets”- in his comment is from that Wikipedia article...

    - 2) What can be found in that Wikipedia article, though, is the following...:

    - “Supporters maintain in turn that media consolidation has become the greater threat to freedom of the press in Argentina and elsewhere in Latin America, and that recent measures such those abolishing media laws dating from the country's last dictatorship and rescinding criminal penalties for defamation and libel of the president, promote freedom of expression.[1][2]”

    - ”A majority of journalist respondents in a 2011 Argentine Journalism Forum (FOPEA) survey considered the new law a partial or even substantial progress compared to the previous one.[1]“

    - ”UN Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Expression Frank LaRue also supports the new law;[1] as does the world's largest federation of journalists, the International Federation of Journalists, whose director, Beth Costa, visited Martín Sabbatella of the AFSCA (the agency overseeing the Audiovisual Media Law) in August 2013 to express the IFJ's “support for and commitment to the media law and the defense of freedom of expression in Argentina.”[45]”

    Anglo brainwash and porkies anybody...?

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 08:16 am - Link - Report abuse -4
  • DemonTree

    @ Think
    I agree my video does not show police repression. Do you think yours does? I only see the police pushing the crowd back.

    It does show similarly dressed police using tear gas, something you said did not happen.

    Do you agree the Federal Police are controlled by the central government?

    By the way, I find the crowd in your video quite disturbing. Such devotion to a political leader is a very alien concept.

    @ ElaineB
    I never understood why anyone cares about them to that degree.

    But what do they want to do about it? Are the people so brainwashed that they will oppose any deal with the UK that the government are trying to arrange?

    @ Capi
    If I would judge all Argentines by you, I'd say they want to bomb my country to smithereens, hate all foreigners without exception, think present Europeans should be punished for things our countries did in the past, and refuse to negotiate on anything.

    Luckily I don't judge your whole country by you.

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 08:37 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • ElaineB

    @ TTT

    What have I told you about relying on the internet to form your opinions, especially when you treat stereotypes as fact.

    Time for you to get out of your parent's basement, get a job and discover life is so much more rewarding when you live it.

    @ Demon Tree

    They didn't much care about the Falklands until Peron. He wanted to introduce nationalism - he regarded Mussolini as a hero - and needed something to unite the country against a common enemy. He chose the Malvinas/English and it is recorded that even he didn't think it would work. It did.

    I will write more later.

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 09:08 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...

    You say...:
    “By the way, I find the crowd in your video quite disturbing. Such devotion to a political leader is a very alien concept.”

    I say...:
    Alien...? For whom...?
    Tell me my dear Anglo lad...
    When using such limited ethnocentric parameters to judge diversity....
    What puts you Anglos apart from so may other haughty fundamentalist ethnocentric simpletons all over this wold?

    I..., on the other hand..., find the braiwashed political apathy of the British electorate mass quite alien... but don't let it disturb me for a sec.

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 09:11 am - Link - Report abuse -6
  • DemonTree

    @ Think
    Alien to me, who else?

    I find the apathy of some voters in Britain concerning - actually it's not just apathy, but the feeling we can't make a difference - but I'm glad we don't have the sort of leaders that people can 'luuuv'. I want people to be critical of them and vote based on what they've done and what they say they'll do, not because of personality or charisma or anything of that sort.

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 10:58 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Mr DemonTree

    As I have told you before...
    ... If you wish to comment knowingly about Argentinean realities and idiosyncracy..., you could use some of that sceptical and detached independent mind of yours ( the one so many “First World” citizens wrongly THINK they automatically posess by some mysterious right of birth)... to learn something about Argentinean recent history... (let's start easy with the 2003-2016 period)
    Then you would know that those people in my linked video are there based on what the Kirchnners have done and what they say they'll continue doing, not because of personality, charisma or anything of that sort...

    But of course..., you can choose the easy way out and get your info from Anglo trolls as MartiLlazo or ElaineB...
    MartiLlazo's system is quite evident... A cocktail of tergiversations, exaggerations, lies and other haughty narcisistic niceties...
    ElaineB's system is quite subtler though...
    A poster with many logical interpretations of current World affairs..., I must say...
    ... Until the talk is about the quite successful Kirchner administrations...
    Here..., durind the last many years, and under the cover of her many “ imaginary Argentinean friends” she has spread each and every false slander, defamation, calumny and libel story about the Kirchners that has been imagined, published and later proved false and baseless...
    Shopping sprees in Europe..., Shoe collections a la Imelda Marcos..., Luxury apartments on the 5th Ave...., Domestic violence..., Infidelity..., Child neglect..., you name it...
    Since last December's most peaceful, normal and stable change of administrations in Argentine history...., which she constantly told us her “imaginary Argie friends” were in panic about because “they knew” it would end violently..., she has been quite quiet though...

    Seems that she now Thinks that the already failing Macri administration needs her and her “Friends” help, again

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse -4
  • Marti Llazo

    Here you go, Tinkle, the link concerning Kirchner intimidation and repression of the free press in Argentina:

    “ Argentina's Kirchner Targets the Press - As the state-run economy hits the skids, the government responds with a crackdown on the free press. ” ---“ Four examples serve to make the point: First, when Mrs. Kirchner attacked the farm sector last year because it resisted her plan to impose high export taxes on its harvests, the nation rallied to the defense of the farmers, much to her surprise. Second, her decision to confiscate privately held pension accounts was loudly denounced as a violation of the rule of law. Third, there is a widespread belief that her government is using the state intelligence service to collect information against the president's ”enemies.“ Fourth, an overwhelming majority of Argentines resent the privileges and jet-set lifestyle of the first family while national living standards plummet. ” “.... In September, tax authorities launched a raid on the Buenos Aires offices of its daily newspaper. Tax authorities later issued an apology for the raid, but the paper maintains that it was an act of intimidation.”

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703573604574493541233653908

    Then there was Kirchnerism's attempt to silence the opposition press by expropriating the supply of newsprint, and in the best Stalinist manner, declaring newsprint to be a “public utility” and to deny supply to the opposition press.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703573604574493541233653908
    --------
    “ Global editors group raises alarm over Argentina press freedom threat ” -- “ ..it is estimated the the Kirchner government now has direct or indirect control of 80% of the Argentine media.”

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703573604574493541233653908

    ---
    “Kirchner Moves Against Argentina's Free Press”

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703573604574493541233653908

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Think

    Anglo Turnip just above

    Wooooooooooooooooooooooooow...
    ... A Richy Rich journalist from the Richy Rich Wall Street Journal defending the Richy Rich Argentinean 1%...
    How very surprising ...

    ANYHOW...
    Each an every point she mentions in her WSJ article is treated in depth on that Wikipedia article you so courteously linked us to...:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_between_Kirchnerism_and_the_media

    Which highpoint is...:
    ”UN Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Expression Frank LaRue also supports the new law;[1] as does the world's largest federation of journalists, the International Federation of Journalists, whose director, Beth Costa, visited Martín Sabbatella of the AFSCA (the agency overseeing the Audiovisual Media Law) in August 2013 to express the IFJ's “support for and commitment to the media law and the defense of freedom of expression in Argentina.”[45]”

    Read your own links..., Turnip...

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • DemonTree

    @ Think
    I have been learning about Argentina; before I started reading this website I knew next to nothing. But I still don't know enough to judge what the truth is about the Ks or other people.

    If I did learn more though, what makes you think I wouldn't agree with Elaine, who you say has logical interpretations of current world affairs? As she was living in Buenos Aires, presumably most of her friends live there too, and have been voting for Macri as Mayor. And since he was elected president, it must be true that plenty of people in Argentina share Elaine's views, rather than yours.

    As for the media, Wikipedia says the main newsprint supplier was owned by Clarín and La Nación, as well as the government, and it charged lower prices to papers they owned, which is bad for freedom of the press. And so the government proposed to expropriate a bigger share of the company to put it under government control instead, which is also bad for freedom of the press. Sounds like a mess all round.

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Clyde15

    From the UK's point of view, who cares what happens to her. She has acted as an enemy to our country so, if she goes down the tubes...tough titty !

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Marti Llazo

    Darn... still didn't get those links right. Must try again. Links corrected

    “ Argentina's Kirchner Targets the Press - As the state-run economy hits the skids, the government responds with a crackdown on the free press. ” ---“ Four examples serve to make the point: First, when Mrs. Kirchner attacked the farm sector last year because it resisted her plan to impose high export taxes on its harvests, the nation rallied to the defense of the farmers, much to her surprise. Second, her decision to confiscate privately held pension accounts was loudly denounced as a violation of the rule of law. Third, there is a widespread belief that her government is using the state intelligence service to collect information against the president's ”enemies.“ Fourth, an overwhelming majority of Argentines resent the privileges and jet-set lifestyle of the first family while national living standards plummet. ” “.... In September, tax authorities launched a raid on the Buenos Aires offices of its daily newspaper. Tax authorities later issued an apology for the raid, but the paper maintains that it was an act of intimidation.”

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703573604574493541233653908 that one is OK

    Then there was Kirchnerism's attempt to silence the opposition press by expropriating the supply of newsprint, and in the best Stalinist manner, declaring newsprint to be a “public utility” and to deny supply to the opposition press.

    Should have been http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703573604574493541233653908
    --------
    “ Global editors group raises alarm over Argentina press freedom threat ” -- “ ..it is estimated the the Kirchner government now has direct or indirect control of 80% of the Argentine media.” should have been http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703573604574493541233653908

    “Kirchner Moves Against Argentina's Free Press” should have been
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703573604574493541233653908
    http:/

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Think

    Hey, Anglo Turnip....

    That's about the tenth time you do it...

    How many more times before that little mind of yours understands that, on this new MercoPress version, you can only post ONE (1) hyperlink per post...

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 02:09 pm - Link - Report abuse -5
  • Lightning

    Mr Demon Tree, Mr. Marti;

    Let's not forget:

    Evita K's 'rule by decree' style.
    Her cult persona rallies, orchestrated by her son Maximo, head of La Campora, a government subsidized army of party-faithful thugs and freeloaders.

    Aerolineas' black hole of operating debt ($2m a day?), vastly overstaffed with La Campora members.

    Intimidation by “Unknown” thugs violently attacking cruise businesses with Falklands-friendly clients, while the uniformed Police look on.

    Tax authority Harassment of businesses and individuals who defied Evita K policies or edicts.

    Attempts to legislate restrictions of private ownership of the Press.

    Replacement of INDEC statisticians with bureaucrats loyal to Evita K, publishing false data to deceive creditors, the IMF, and Argentine voters.

    Just to name a few.

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Marti Llazo

    Now let's review Tinkle's back-pedaling “ revised” claim that Kirchnerismo at a national level didn't participate in any of those rubber-bullet riot-gear episodes.

    Provably false claim, as usual.

    Take for example the Gendarmería -- very much a national police force under the direct control of the Kirchner government. And just as a sampling of a rather recent-memory event covered by the late Buenos Aires Herald:

    “Border Guards violently evict protesters”

    “Border Guards violently dispersed a protest by employees of the 60 bus line who were demonstrating against layoffs during rush hour on the busy Pan-American highway yesterday morning, leading to scores of injured on both sides and criticism from unions and human rights groups.

    Around 33 protesters were injured, two of whom were in intensive care and seven Border Guards received medical attention after authorities moved to clear a roadblock. Seven people were arrested and later released.”

    http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/195116/border-guards-violently-evict-protesters

    Contrast that with Tinkle's false assertion ““During the twelve years of the Kirchner administration, there was not one dead demonstrant, not one injured demonstrant, not one tear gassed or rubber bulleted demonstration in Argentina. ”

    BTW, the ”border guards” referred to are the Argentine National Gendarmerie, a paramilitary organisation with around 70,000 troops (they participated in the 1982 Falklands war) under the control of the executive branch. We got to observe one of their little parties at a frontier crossing in, ironically, Chubut province -- at midnight on December 31, 1999, when they took out one of their assault rifles and fired a celebratory full-automatic burst into the air.

    Tinkle really ought to visit the real Argentina someday.

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 03:03 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • ElaineB

    @ Demon Tree

    You should watch some of the La Campora rallies on Youtube. They will put you in mind of the Hitler Youth Movement.

    Actually, under Nestor - I was living in Argentina when he died though 'it wasn't me' - the Kirchner Youth Movement was more subdued. Even CFK, who was really operated by Nestor, was restrained to an extent. It was after Nestor died that the dogs were unleashed. Maximo really went to town with his army of thugs, spurred on by CFK who was and always has been a committed activist. That is her forte. She loves to stir up the rabble and act the victim. She fancied herself a new Evita and waved her rolex-adorned wrist to the poor claiming she was fighting for them whilst stealing their money. She stole millions, probably billions from the poor.

    I have to say that many of my friends in Buenos Aires were rather loyal to CFK in the early days and swallowed the propaganda whole. They even supported her re-election on the widow's card but that quickly soured. By the end of her reign that love affair had turned to hate. They know what she is and what she did.

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • DemonTree

    @ ElaineB
    I watched a couple. Not really up there with the Hitler Youth, though the giant banners with CFK's face are a bit WTF.

    They appeared to be singing about how the traitors can go with Massa - he was the third candidate in the last election? - which is pretty disturbing. People should be able to disagree in politics without being accused of treason!

    If things get bad enough under Macri do you think your friends might go back to supporting CFK? Think seems to believe we haven't seen the last of her.

    @ Clyde15
    Yeah, that doesn't exactly predispose me in her favour.

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Yeahhhhh....Mr. DemonTree...

    “People should be able to disagree in politics without being accused of treason!”

    Who do those monkeys Think they are?
    http://counter-jihad.uk/traitor-meet-the-woman-who-won-article-50-high-court-case-and-put-brakes-on-brexit/

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    “counter-jihad.uk”? I don't know who they think they are, but they sound like a bunch of far-right crazies to me.

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree

    I posted that one link because it has the best picture of allurinv Ms. Miller...

    There are hundreds of more or less serious sites and commentators today in the UK calling her and a trio of British judges for “traitors”...

    So... spare some of that faux indignationof yours about some young Argentinean political activists that feel betrayed by Mr. Massa..., a fidel Kirchnerist once in a time that saw an opportunity of great poltical winings by changing sides...

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • ElaineB

    @ Demon Tree

    I think she is done. Too tainted now and her health was never good when she was president but don't rule out Fat Max giving it a go. He was too lazy to do much in the public eye and preferred to stir up the rent-a-mobs and attend to his drug habit.

    I know you say you don't know too much about Argentina or the K's but I think if you enjoy research you will find the whole story of their corruption, money laundering and involvement in the drugs trade fascinating. I researched it and saw it in action first hand.

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Marti Llazo

    This just in from our good offices in Esquel, regarding the [denial of] brutal police repression during the CFK regime.

    Protesters killed during Menem presidency: 2
    Protesters killed during Duhalde presidency: 2
    Protesters killed during CFK presidency: at least 20 (more, if you count the “dubious circumstances” cases; the total is believed to be 28 protesters ) . The majority of the deaths of protesters took place in provinces with governments allied with Kirchnerism. The number includes at least one suspicious “ suicide” and others killed in “traffic accidents” in which federal forces were involved.

    The figures from the “Coordinadora contra la Represión Policial e Institucional” calculates that the number of dead from all encounters (including protests and others) and all security forces comes to over 3000 dead and 70 disappeared.

    And that's the news from Chubut.

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Think

    Geeeeeeeeee......

    What chance has an auld, hard working, decent, humble Argie Patagonian dweller living on his minimalistic cabin in the midst of an off the beaten track Andean valley as me..., against a worldly Engrish Jet-setterette who has..., in her very own words..., “experienced the Kirchner administration's ”corruption, money laundering and involvement in the drugs trade... FIRST HAND..”

    Geeeeee..., again...
    ... That poor Engrish lass must be under the CIA and MI6 witness protection scheme 24/7/365..!

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 10:30 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    @ Think
    Bloody Brexiters. They're wrong to call her a traitor and even more wrong to call the judges - who are just doing their jobs - the same. But how many of those serious sites and commentators are supported by the government? Do they go on rallies with giant pictures of Theresa May?

    I found the lyrics for the song those thousands of young political activists were singing:

    http://cancionpopular.com.ar/node/88

    It kinda doesn't sound like they're just accusing him of betraying Kirchnerism. Besides, can you see into his mind to know why he changed sides? People here are way too fond of accusing others of having nothing but bad intentions, whether it's CFK or Macri or other posters.

    And if you live in the middle of nowhere in a far away province, how much do you really know about what's happening in Buenos Aires or the rest of the country?

    @ ElaineB
    You really think people would support a dynasty? But I guess they will have to find someone to stand next time. Anyway I will have to find out more when I have time, though it's not so obvious which sources to trust.

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 11:18 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree

    I'm not completely “Incommunicado”, lad...

    I discuss world affairs daily with them border collies...
    (Always nice to have interlocutors more intelligent than oneself...)

    Then there is them horses......... but they are dumb.......... as horses are...


    We even have our fair share of “Desaparecidos” down here...
    Genaro & Cristian Calfullanca..., just vanished in a nearby valley some years ago...
    If you ask Anglo Turnip MartiLlazo, he surely will blame Cristina of having killed and eat them as Sushi...

    Nearly forgot...
    Satellital Internet and regular domestic and abroad trips keep me somewhat informed too...

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 11:46 pm - Link - Report abuse -4
  • Tarquin Fin

    @Demon Tree

    I believe you are right. Think has predicted many things that were totally at odds with what the common folk feels in BA and the rest of the country.

    However, if I try to tell him what I see in the streets, using my very own eyes, he always arguments that I have a biased view since I live in BA, a city governed by a non-leftist, not peronist coallition, which is supposedly run by rich people that exploits the working class, which he so tenaciously defends.

    Hence, since I don´t share his views, I must be rich and derisive of the darker colored Argentines, that according to his own tainted perception of reallity, are the real “pueblo” ... Just can´t wait for him to meet my family which is composed of an assortment of hues and descents.

    Nov 03rd, 2016 - 11:47 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Think

    Ché pebete...

    Which “ many things that were totally at odds with what the common folk feels in BA and the rest of the country.” have I predicted???

    I never accused you of being rich either...

    For all I know you even live on the wrong side of Cabildo! ;-)

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 12:17 am - Link - Report abuse -5
  • Tarquin Fin

    @Think

    There is no wrong side of Cabildo Avenue. At least not anymore.

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 12:29 am - Link - Report abuse +6
  • Think

    Sorry pebete but there is...

    Cabildo..., Juramento..., Luis Maria Campos... Maure... the rest is grasa no militante ;-)

    (Sin olvidarnos de la zona paqueta de Belgrano C porsu...)

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse -6
  • DemonTree

    @ Tarquin Fin
    I hope you are right, and that Think is wrong about the plan for more cooperation between Britain and Argentina. It would be nice to have better relations. I also hope he is wrong about Macri, since he will be in power for another 3 years anyway.

    And a self-proclaimed Scandinavian thinks that only darker coloured Argentines are the real people? That's a little strange.

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 12:47 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Think

    (Sin olvidarnos de la zona paqueta de Belgrano < R >...., porsu...)

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 12:51 am - Link - Report abuse -5
  • Tarquin Fin

    So that means that if someone is not a militant, they are “grease”?

    Thanks for the tip. All this time I was just under the impression that only the “chetos” were discriminating.

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 12:53 am - Link - Report abuse +5
  • Think

    No te calentés... Just paraphrasing Prat Gay pebete...
    I am a “Cheto”...A cheto traidor ;-)

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 01:05 am - Link - Report abuse -4
  • Tarquin Fin

    No hurt feelings. I totally assume my loser status.

    I encourage you to come visit us more often. Carefully look at those 8 am faces. Fight for your spot in the subte. Try to make it to your appointment on time. Should I go on?

    Stop travelling the world and then going back to your cave in those far, far away southern andean valleys. A plane ticket for a “cheto traidor” won't hurt your budget that much.

    I guess that I have always had a hard time understanding the vernacular left. It's all just about class struggle over the mic but at the end of the day there's always that juicy steak sitting in the fridge.

    I do prefer the lents stew.

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 01:20 am - Link - Report abuse +5
  • Think

    Well at 7,5 pesos for a ticket today and 10 pesos soon, one won't need to fight for a spot in the subte no more...

    Linseneintopf with pancetita ahumada von der Keller en Juramento...... yummmy ;-)

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 01:37 am - Link - Report abuse -6
  • Tarquin Fin

    No more butter scons for me mater! I'm off to play the grand piano!

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 01:41 am - Link - Report abuse +5
  • Think

    How pʌɪθəˈnɛsk of you....

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 02:02 am - Link - Report abuse -6
  • Tarquin Fin

    Now I know why nobody paid attention to your post in Jac'o North's blog.

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 02:17 am - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Think

    Well...

    That's what happens when one posts a greeting on a thread that has been inactive for about ten days...
    Good thing you read it though...
    A perfect example of the double standards of the Engrish posters in here...

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 02:25 am - Link - Report abuse -7
  • Tarquin Fin

    Well, you should have known better. Time changes everything.

    Time however doesn't change the fact that you are misplaced as a toilet well in the middle of a living room.

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 02:29 am - Link - Report abuse +5
  • CapiTrollism_is_back!!

    I find it unfathomable they don't think they are the world's greatest hypocrites.

    Or just plain hypocrites at least.

    Or as a bare minimum, sometimes hypocrites.

    It gets worse, they don't think they are ever even wrong.

    They are one disturbing mentality. Demon Tree seems to be the only one who actually is partially human. On a rare occassion Elaine and Gordo. The rest are Anglo to the bone.

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 02:30 am - Link - Report abuse -6
  • Think

    Mr. Tarqin Fin...

    You say...:
    “Time however doesn't change the fact that you are misplaced as a toilet well in the middle of a living room.”

    I say...:
    I know..., I know...
    I have always been Avant-garde...
    https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Duchamp_Fountaine.jpg#mw-jump-to-license

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 02:50 am - Link - Report abuse -5
  • DemonTree

    Wow. I'm 'partially human'? How generous...!

    And Think is a champagne socialist? That figures.

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 08:14 am - Link - Report abuse +6
  • Think

    Single Spey 16+ malt socialist..., if I may....

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 08:59 am - Link - Report abuse -3
  • ElaineB

    @ Demon Tree

    If you are genuinely interested in learning about Argentina and the culture, the comment section of this board is not the place. You will be amused by the comments, I am sure, but most are neither factual or representative on the majority.

    I do recommend you go, meet a cross-section of people, travel the length and breadth (views change considerably outside of BsAs) and draw your own, first-hand conclusions. I had a ball there and never met anyone as objectionable as the people claiming to be Argentines on this board.

    This board - like most message boards - is useful for exposing deep-held prejudices. But just as some people claim to be British and posting from that perspective are clearly lying, so are some Argentines not really Argentine or have not lived there for decades. But through all the nonsense useful information slips out.

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 09:47 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Clyde15

    Troll boy.

    You still don't get it ! You accuse everyone else of being wrong in all matters while you are the ONLY purveyor of truth and wisdom.

    Your self conceit is glaring. Your posts reveal an imagined victim mentality when in fact, nobody really cares what you say. From start to finish they are full of invective, bile, hyperbole and histrionics. You expect to be taken seriously?

    Elaine
    As you say, this is not the place to expect reasoned opinions and comments.

    If some of these were made face-to-face some people would be spitting their teeth on the floor.

    I came onto this forum years ago to find out what was happening in the Falklands and met with a barrage of invective and hate against the Islanders and indirectly to the UK.

    Before I knew it I was as bad as the rest of them. I had, at one point contemplated a holiday in Chile, Argentina and the Falklands.

    Now I would not go near Argentina even as a free gift. All I know about the attitude of the people has been gleaned from Troll boy, Think et al. Rationally I know that is incorrect to judge a nation by what appears on here, but emotions win out.

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 10:04 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    You two Anglos above..., speak for yourselves...

    This humble singe-malt Patagonian socialist means every word he writes here...(except when he's joking;-)

    This humble single-malt Patagonian socialist wishes peace on Earth and and a fair wee dram for everybody from our common Mother Earth distillery...

    This humble single-malt Patagonian socialist wants the Engrish Pirates to abandon their archaic Colonial pretentions over some 12,000,000 square kms. of South Atlantic & Antarctic territory and go home...

    Also Sprach Think...

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 10:38 am - Link - Report abuse -5
  • CapiTrollism_is_back!!

    Even if you wanted to take a trip, I'm afraid the boat has literally said on the winds of the Pound Sterling.

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 10:54 am - Link - Report abuse -6
  • ElaineB

    TTT - Don't be ridiculous. Argentina is cheap as chips to travel to. When I started travelling there I used to get between5 and 6 pesos to the pound, now I can get 18 or 19 to the pound and more if I exchange dollars in Argentina. Chile is more stable but I have experiences worse than the current exchange rate and it is all very much cheaper than Europe. If anything, more Europeans will travel to cheap destinations like SoAm. Good for us and good for your economy.

    @Clyde15. If my advice is good for anything with you, take that trip. Argentina and Chile are beautiful countries. The people are 99.9% lovely and welcoming. You would have a ball there. Sink into the culture and do like the locals (maybe not the trying to nick a quid off everyone in Argentina - but you know what I mean - it is the culture and not personal). In Buenos Aires you will see a few protests every day but just walk on by. Out of the cities it is a wonderful place to visit.

    Chile stole my heart for the diversity of landscape and you won't even mind that sometimes it is like walking on a vibrating walkway (earth tremors are frequent). People are curious and welcoming.

    I have still not made it to the Falklands but I will get there in the next year or so.

    Too many contributors on here are so wrapped up in exposing their personal issues they forget what this board is really for.

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 12:25 pm - Link - Report abuse +6
  • DemonTree

    @ ElaineB
    I would like to visit when I have the money and some holidays saved up. Though I think I might give Tierra del Fuego a miss after seeing the Top Gear special.

    I do find the comments on here amusing though. ;)

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 12:40 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Clyde15

    Think

    It may have escaped your notice but we all only speak for ourselves....even you I suspect.

    Argentine politics are of NO interest to me except when it affects the Falklands and relations with the UK.

    I don't have a mandate to speak for the British people as there are various opinions on all subjects.

    I may not have the truth on many of the subjects on the forum BUT NEITHER DO YOU.

    Elaine
    No, S.America is off my list. My Spanish is not up to it. I will give the USA a miss also- I don't like of people being allowed to carry guns.

    Canada and N.Zealand are civilized countries and I speak the language and understand the customs. Maybe I will pay N.Z. a return visit and possibly Canada as I have a cousin there..

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • The Voice

    For those contemplating trips to SA, go. Its even easier now with direct BA flights from the UK instead of having to go via Madrid on awful Iberia or Amsterdam and there is a promise of low cost airlines soon. The Falklands trip can be combined with an Antarctica and S Georgia trip which is not to be missed, the wildlife is epic. One of the worlds last natural refuges. S Georgia is utterly fantastic. You can see the horrible remnants of whaling alongside thousands of fur seals penguins and Albatross. Only about 30 ,000 people a year land on Antarctica. You would be in a very select bunch. Going on a small ice strengthened ship means you can land in interesting remote places. I think Chile is better for sights than Argieland a lot of which is boring, The Chilean Atacama desert in the north and the Torres del Paine park in the south are both awesome. Downside is lots of flights. Direct flights to Peru now, thats an amazing place too.
    The only trouble I nearly had was being escorted by the cops whilst cycling through the sink area on the Northern outskirts of Mendoza and Argie climbers trying to nick my gear in Chile. The Medoza cops were worried I would be mugged. They were really nice. As Elaine says the people are terrific, not at all like the noxious trolls here. I guess the trolls are 'have nots' addicted to Cristinas frequent handouts. Back to Chile soon, cant get enough of it. And as for language, despite what the trolls say most educated people in South America speak good English. As long as you can say Hola and order a beer in Spanish you will be fine.

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 02:36 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • ElaineB

    @ Demon Tree

    When you are ready to go I have some recommendations and don't rule out any part. The hardest decision will be having too may choices. Forget the beaches of Argentina but don't rule out any other part.

    Clyde15

    Latin America has some extraordinary places so that is a shame. I spend a lot of time in the U.S. and never fail to enjoy myself.

    The Voice

    The new direct flight to Chile is a bonus but I usually combine NoA, and SoAm trips so I am not sure if I will use it.

    Away from the main tourist areas I use my Spanish a lot but generally the locals are eager to speak English for the practise.

    Don't forget Easter Island - an experience at least once in a lifetime.

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse +5
  • The Voice

    Saw some Guanacos at the Newbury show. The owner was amazed we could identify them. Cycling past miles of soy in Argieland was pretty boring. But Chile draws me back again and again, so many different awesome landscapes and coastline. Love Valparaizo the Liverpool of SA. Punta Arenas is such a surprising place. The rock pillars of Torres del Paine, awesome. Great fishing, great treking, great climbing. My pals suggested Bariloche but its Chile again.. Must learn some SA Spanish. But, if you can only afford one trip Peru is probably the best destination including the Amazon rainforest.

    Nov 04th, 2016 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Think

    Speaking about visting Southamerica in general and my Country, Argentina in particular....

    The information given above about our mainstream touristic destinations is mostly true...

    Bevare about the wrong info given by ElaineB, though...

    - Argentina is, as we speak, NOT “cheap as chips to travel to.”...

    - Argentina is..., as we speak..., a very expensive destination due to an incredible high inflation “in Dollars” the present administration has provoked...
    http://economia.elpais.com/economia/2016/09/27/actualidad/1475001016_122490.html

    Be welcomed (but bring some extra cash:-( )

    Nov 05th, 2016 - 09:11 am - Link - Report abuse -5
  • ElaineB

    Seriously, Argentina is a cheap destination for Europeans. It is cheaper now than when I first started visiting, oh so long ago. I just spent a week in Cannes - that is an expensive destination.

    As I mentioned before, locals will offer huge discounts for cash. There are many ways to enjoy everything Argentina has to offer without dipping to far into your wallet. I guess Mr.T is on a restricted budget. Most Argentines do not earn very much.

    Nov 05th, 2016 - 09:32 am - Link - Report abuse +2
  • The Voice

    Argentina “very expensive” titter titter! Prices have increased to realistic market levels now basket case economics have been dumped by the reforming Macri administration. Handouts to the feckless and scroungers have ceased and the idle have had to get off their backsides and go to work. This strategy will ultimately result in a resurgent Argentina, but it will take time. Return of CFK or another whacko of the same persuasion will result in the transformation into Argenzuala, a fate that must be avoided. Put those earplugs in and resist the whisperings of Hissing Sid and his parrots (now mostly disappeared?)

    Nov 05th, 2016 - 09:49 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Hmmmmmm....

    Let's imagine a prospective Anglo tourist, with a normal intelligence..., let's call him “Mr. DemonTree”... who wishes to visit Argentina...
    Who would he choose to lay his travelling budget after...?

    A) A current article about high touristic prices in Argentina...,by the World's biggest spanish language newspaper...
    http://economia.elpais.com/economia/2016/09/27/actualidad/1475001016_122490.html

    B) An anonymous self proclaimed Anglo spinnster with a documented tendency of telling porkies about Argentina...

    Tufff one...

    Nov 05th, 2016 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse -5
  • DemonTree

    It's a moot point since I don't get more holidays until April, although you've all made me really want to visit. But if I was planning to come I wouldn't base my budget on either, I'd look up prices for the places I wanted to visit.

    It can't be that expensive though compared to places in Europe right? I've been to Norway; now that was expensive!

    Nov 05th, 2016 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Kanye

    Why would Think discourage deliberately discourage open minded liberal thinking Demon Tree from visiting the utopian austral kingdom of Argenzuela?

    A) will Sir Demon Tree find out the truth about Argenzuela?

    B) is the Dark Lord Think merely jealous that others can afford to travel there and he cannot?

    Tuff one.

    Nov 05th, 2016 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @ Kanye. You have it exactly right. The Argentine posters never want anyone visiting and seeing the reality. Mr.T spends a ridiculous amount of time attempting to undermine me because I know the truth about Argentina having spent a lot of time there. He lies. He calls me a 'self-proclaimed Anglo Spinster' when I have never commented on my relationship status. Never. That is a fine example of his lying.

    It must be so annoying when I disrupt his propaganda campaign.

    @ Demon Tree You are right, Scandinavia is comparatively expensive. South America is not.

    Nov 05th, 2016 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Marti Llazo

    Never imagined I would agree with the Tinkle on anything but it happens to be true that Argentina has become stupidly expensive. In past weeks I've mentioned that the chilean Zona Franca in Punta Arenas is full of argies buying anything they can legally haul back and then some. And some of the products sold in the ZF that are imported from Argentina are actually cheaper in the ZF than if you bought them in Argentina.

    Have not been to Bs As recently but there are plenty of media observations about the insane prices.

    There was an article during the winter (our winter) in Uruguay claiming that argie prices are almost as high as those in Monaco: “Hay precios en Buenos Aires casi tan altos como en Mónaco ” ( It has only gotten worse since then).

    But this is not a new condition since things have been disproportionately expensive here for more than a year. Just the continuation of a trend.

    Citing El País again: “Why is Argentina the most expensive country in Latin America?”(¿Por qué Argentina es el país más caro de América Latina?)

    Well, duh. Super high inflation, very high taxes passed on to tourists, high labour costs here, and a stagnant peso-dollar rate. Some things here are almost double the cost of what they were a little over a year ago.

    BTW this business of “cash discounts for using dollars” is so very Lonely Planet, meaning the guidebooks are out of step with reality. Here in the south, just about the only time using cash does you any good is when avoiding the service percentage on a credit card (which can be 8 percent or so for merchants here) or when a service provider is working off the books. Dollars are no big deal here anymore since the rate of exchange peso/dollar isn't going anywhere: a dollar gets you the same number of pesos as it did a year ago but the costs in pesos have gone into the clouds.

    Nov 05th, 2016 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Jack Bauer

    CapiTroll
    ”As for my foot size, yes it is very large. I mentioned that once because some Britiish-Chilean poster (which I still believe to be Marti Llazo today, at the the time “Chichureo”), .....”

    It's obviously not only your foot size that is very large, but also your lack of perception...to believe that Marti Llazo and Chicureo are the one and same is, to say the least, pretty naive. While both express themselves with clarity and a good dose of common sense, they do so in a different manner ; by past and current posts, Chicureo has let on that he is a Chilean naval officer, while Marti, based on his English and Spanish, appears to be an Anglo-Argentine....Maybe I'm mistaken about Marti's nationality, but to me they are definitely not the same person.

    Nov 05th, 2016 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • ElaineB

    I guess Argentines are known for exaggeration. I was in Monaco a few days ago - don't worry, BsAs has a long way to go.

    Expensive for Argentines? Probably, if you listen to my friends complain about inflation - they have been doing that since CFK's reign. For a European? No.

    Nov 05th, 2016 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Kanye

    Perhaps in this case, Marti is reading the same materials that Think reads in exile.

    Nov 05th, 2016 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Jack Bauer

    Talking of real estate prices in Monaco, I passed through there a few years ago, on a cruise, and while walking around, entered a real estate agency - a small flat (about 75 sq.mt.) cost 'only' USD 5 million......needless to say, I didn't close the deal.
    In B.A., obviously depending on location, that 'small' sum would buy you something extremely nice.... the “barrio” of Recoleta, while a bit 'old' and 'cold' for my liking, commands prices between USD 2,600 and USD 4,000 per sq.mt., which means that a 75 sq.mt. flat would cost about USD 300,000 ; down on the 'posh' side of Puerto Madero, a 400 sq.mt luxury flat, overlooking the river, goes for about USD 3 million.....but still way below Monaco..

    Nov 05th, 2016 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • axel arg

    THE ANSWER I STILL CAN'T GET.
    I can understand that there is still a number of our people who buys the arguments of the government, and of it's hegemonical adict press, which tries to convence the argentine population that thieves and corrupts exist only in FPV, beside, it justifies Macri's regressive measures, because according to their relate, the former government stole everything, that's why our poor Mauricio didn't have any other alternative than making hard cuts on the national budget. However, nob

    Nov 05th, 2016 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Marti Llazo

    Axle, what is a hegemonical adict press? It that something for squeezing soy beans?

    Nov 05th, 2016 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse +5
  • Voice

    The Voice...

    “The only trouble I nearly had was being escorted by the cops whilst cycling through the sink area on the Northern outskirts of Mendoza ”

    http://en.mercopress.com/2014/06/03/rio-mayor-be-sure-when-you-arrive-in-brazil-it-s-not-england-or-london/comments#comment330205

    Which puppet are you controlling with the CaptainSilver account...?
    You are already using the image of an Indian on the other IcePilot account...
    Why do you need three accounts...?
    Why are Trolls like yourself with multiple accounts tolerated on this site....

    Nov 05th, 2016 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • axel arg

    THE ANSWER I STILL CAN'T GET.
    I can uderstand that there is a number of our people who buys the arguments of the government, and of it's hegemonical adict press, which tries to convence our citizens that thieves and corrupts exist only in F. P. V., beside, it justifies Macri's regressive measures, because according to their hypocritical and mediocre relate, the former administration stole the whole national treasure, that's why our poor Mauricio didn't have any other alternative than making hard cuts on the national budget, however nobody can explain me that if it soposes that C. F. K. was a corrupt, surrounded by a band of thieves who destroyed Argentina, then how is it possible that one of the first decisions taken by the new government, was to reduce such important taxes, as it did with the agrarian sector, and the mining one?. The results of these soposed smart policies, was to replace those taxes, for more and more debts and hard cuts, do you think it was a good decision?.
    As i said in my first comment, i would never put my hands on fire to defend the honesty of a politician, in fact, i don't even do it for Cristina, although i feel love and admiration for what she represents, but i can't assure whether she's inocent or guitly, however it doesn't mean that i'll be too ingenous to ignore that in some cases there is a true persecution against her.

    MARTIN LLAZO: We call hegemonical press, to the most powerful one in the country, and i call it adict too, for all that i explain in this comment.

    Nov 05th, 2016 - 10:28 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Marti Llazo

    Axle, no tengo las más mínima idea qué querés decir. ¿podés escribir en cristiano?

    Nov 06th, 2016 - 12:11 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • DemonTree

    @ axel arg
    I think that Macri cut the taxes on the agrarian and mining sectors to allow them to grow and export more, thus bringing more dollars into Argentina and improving the economy in the long term.

    Whether this will work, I do not pretend to know.

    Nov 06th, 2016 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • axel arg

    DEMON TREE.
    The government uses the same argument that you to justify the reduction of those taxes, however the main benifited sectors from those policies, were the biggest producers, but in the case of the small agrarian producers, are going through a great crisis, because after the devaluation of december, their costs of production incrased so much for them.

    Nov 06th, 2016 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Marti Llazo

    The increased costs of production affect all growers, Axle, and the continuing 40 percent annual inflation probably has a greater impact. (There was also a large currency devaluation in 2014). Small producers are hampered as well by inefficiencies, high costs for fertiliser and transportation, very high labour costs, poor crop rotation and other growing practices, and more-competitive producers in other countries. Agricultural labour costs in Argentina are the highest in South America and adversely affect small growers, in some cases resulting in more than half the value of the eventual sale price for a unit of agricultural production. Remember also that export taxes are only part of the heavy tax burden that affect growers here. And for crissake quit your whinging.

    Nov 06th, 2016 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Jack Bauer

    @AXEL ARG
    THE ANSWER I STILL CAN'T GET.

    How is it that you are able to judge Macri's administration after 10 months in office, and were unable to see the damage done to Argentina in 12 years of the Kirchners ??

    “...although i feel love and admiration for what she represents, but i can't assure whether she's inocent or guitly, however it doesn't mean that i'll be too ingenous to ignore that in some cases there is a true persecution against her.”

    Something else I “can't get”, is the fact that you profess “love and admiration” for CFK while at the same time you claim to be unsure whether she is corrupt....unless you have absolutely no alternative, how do you support someone you have doubts about ?
    The funny thing is that most politicians, when caught with their hand in the cookie jar, claim they are being persecuted....and so should they be ; as to their reaction, it is to be expected - if they were truly innocent, then they should have nothing to worry about, as no conclusive evidence of wrongdoing will surface....it's the same pathetic defense used by Lula : the proof is staring everyone in the face - only the blind and those who are benefiting from the corruption he set in place, are still defending him, as by doing that they are defending themselves. And after he's thrown in prison, there will still be people idiotic enough to believe he is a victim...

    Nov 06th, 2016 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • DemonTree

    @ axel arg
    I'm not going to defend Macri's policies; I don't know enough about Argentina to know if they are working or not.

    I think he would have to cut spending anyway though, as Argentina had a growing deficit.

    @ Marti Llazo
    “And for crissake quit your whinging.”

    Seriously? You complain about Argentina more than anyone else here!

    Nov 06th, 2016 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • The Voice

    Axel - I wondered why my Argentinian feedlot steak and Monsanto Malbec was often so expensive - taxed to pay off the scroungers! Seeing all those lovely Herefords and Aberdeen Angus grazing on real grass in Chile and biodynamic Carmenere production I have made it my practice to eat and drink Chilean produce. Thats your problem. There are lots with the same tastes as me and serial attempted intimidation of the Falkland Islanders doesn't help at all. A return to basket case economics won't help either.

    Nov 06th, 2016 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Tarquin Fin

    The Voice,

    Monsanto Malbec? GM vines? Seriously?

    Despite feedlot widespread use, you will find lots of Herefords and AA grazing all over the pampas.
    But of course, how would you see them if crossing the country over to Mendoza is so boring to you. You can't appreciate those beauties from 10000 m high.

    Troll.

    Nov 07th, 2016 - 02:04 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Think

    Tarquin Fin...

    “You can't appreciate those beauties from 10000 m high.” You say....

    “Beauties”...??? Those stupid, ugly cows...???
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0fgFlW2MeRY ;-)))

    Nov 07th, 2016 - 03:38 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Voice

    Tarquin Fin
    You have his measure...
    Also he has made it his practice to eat and drink period (full stop)...
    I've got a photo of him...(a fatty)...;o)))

    Nov 07th, 2016 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Marti Llazo

    TF, the enduring legacy of kirchnerism significantly damaged the beef industry here. There are some things you don't change overnight, like the now well-established trend in Argentina's falling out of the top-ten beef producers. Beef consumption per capita here is now well below that of Uruguay.

    Wine? “Higher Labor Costs Make Local Producers Less Competitive; Days of $8.99 Bottles of Malbec Are Over ” It's a trend, not a recent phenomenon: “.....Argentina the fifth-largest producer in 2011, .... sales from exports fell to $877 million last year [2014] , down 5% from 2012, according to the trade group Bodegas de Argentina. In that same period, the quantity of exported wine fell 14% as Argentine suppliers found it harder to compete and still make a profit.....” “...Wine has been hit harder than agricultural products like soy because picking the grapes is so labor intensive. Analysts say producers' costs have risen at least 100% in the past four years....”

    The new mantra: “Inflation makes Argentine products non-competitive. ” Eventually someone here will understand.

    Article a few days ago: “Argentina: menos vacas y menos viñedos” (fewer cows, fewer vineyards)

    Nov 07th, 2016 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Mr. Voice...
    I remember your ultimatum to that Turnip...
    “Change your Avatar picture that plagiates mine... or get your real face published”...
    He immediately did as you ordered him to...!
    An ugly Turnip he must be... ;-)))

    Nov 07th, 2016 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse -4
  • Voice

    He's not really ugly Mr. Think...just likes one pie too many...;-)

    Nov 07th, 2016 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Think

    ;-)))

    Nov 07th, 2016 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Tarquin Fin

    Marti,

    Absolutely. Less wine and cows. It all hurt the industry but it hasn´t disappeared. You can still get a good grass fed cut and good wine at reasonable prices.

    Think, Voice

    That was one weird looking cow. Poor thing got killed. Nasty.

    Nov 07th, 2016 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Think

    Well....
    That's one of my favourite pythonesque Scandi films...
    Nasty Mads Mikkelsen years before becoming nasty Le Chiffre...

    Nov 07th, 2016 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Tarquin Fin

    Yes, it certainly looked pythonesque. Is there a version with subtitles? That was danish right?

    Nov 07th, 2016 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Think

    Yupppp ...
    Danish indeed...
    Try youtubeing “Flickering Lights”...
    Another political incorrect scene from the samefilm...(with Engrish subtitles :-)
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CO3LwBKxAkM

    Nov 07th, 2016 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Tarquin Fin

    Couldn´t find it in youtube. Will have to try fandor

    Nov 07th, 2016 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Marti Llazo

    Returning to something close to the original topic, we see here that one of the leaders of one of the Marxist-Kirchnerist goon-squads has been charged after making what was perceived as a death threat against judges who might be involved in the arrest of CFK.

    “El Ministerio de Seguridad denunció penalmente a Fernando Esteche por intimidación pública -- El líder de Quebracho dijo que si algún juez detiene a Cristina Kirchner ”podría aparecer muerto”

    Looks like Esteche has been arrested, charged, and jailed in the past in cases involving political murder and intimidation.

    Nov 07th, 2016 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Tarquin Fin

    Esteche tiene el culo lleno de leche.

    Nov 08th, 2016 - 02:52 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Marti Llazo

    ”Esteche tiene el culo lleno de leche.

    Why did they ever let him out of prison? And is he still teaching journalism here ?

    Nov 08th, 2016 - 03:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Kanye

    Snr Marti

    “Returning to something close to the original topic, we see here that one of the leaders of one of the Marxist-Kirchnerist goon-squads has been charged after making what was perceived as a death threat against judges who might be involved in the arrest of CFK.

    “El Ministerio de Seguridad denunció penalmente a Fernando Esteche por intimidación pública -- El líder de Quebracho dijo que si algún juez detiene a Cristina Kirchner ”podría aparecer muerto”


    How repulsive.

    Likely mr Massot will tell us that it's only because he feels so passionately the ”work” of Evita K must go on, helping the people.

    Nov 08th, 2016 - 03:36 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Jack Bauer

    @AXEL ARG
    Regarding the answers you “STILL CAN'T GET”, I'm still waiting for your answer....how long are you going to take to invent something else to try to pull more wool over people's eyes ?

    Nov 08th, 2016 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse -1

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