MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Kirchner years “downed” more aircraft than the 1982 Falklands conflict
The dismal state of the Argentine armed forces was revealed by Defense minister Julio Martínez who claimed that the ten/twelve Kirchner years “downed” more Air Force aircraft than those lost during the South Atlantic conflict in 1982. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rules“We have to recover the military capacity of the country”. There didn't have to be a war. You didn't need to lose lives and equipment. You could have avoided invading the Falklands in the first place or withdrawn gracefully when the UN ordered it. Instead you chose to bite off more than you could chew and got your just rewards for your aggression (which is a polite way of saying that you got your arses kicked)
Nov 14th, 2016 - 08:30 am - Link - Report abuse +9If you kicked ass then why do you all always blame the losing side for the “unforgettable” costs in lives and treasure? If i was such a cakewalk it should be plenty easy to forget it and stop whinging about the costs.
Nov 14th, 2016 - 10:45 am - Link - Report abuse -8It is nothing to do with the “losing side”. There would have been NO costs and lives lost if Argentina had not invaded. Who is saying that it was a cakewalk ? It took a lot of effort and logistical nightmares before the proper result came in the UK'S favour.
Nov 14th, 2016 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse +6Another personality change I see ?
Argentina doesn't need military aircraft. No one has any pretensions over her territory.
Nov 14th, 2016 - 12:00 pm - Link - Report abuse +7Better spend on surveillance aircraft to properly control illegal trafficking activity.
And Cristina called the Falkland Islanders 'just squatters' and doubted their rights.
Nov 14th, 2016 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse +5How can you have a sovereignty claim on a territory that you have never legally owned?
And then when offered the chance to go to the ICJ turn the offer down??
https://www.academia.edu/17799157/Falklands_-_Some_Relevant_International_Law
Condorito, following your thought almost no South-American country needs military aircrafts. Argentina needs military aircrafts as any other country: basically to have control of its air-space. For safety. All countries need this. (Why does the FI need four “state of the art” jets?..if Argentina has nothing to be a threat?)
Nov 14th, 2016 - 12:38 pm - Link - Report abuse -2@NosTrolldamus the 16th Where in my post did I mention costs? The only people whinging here are the Argentines... as usual.
Nov 14th, 2016 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse +5The old explanation for the ubiquitous puddles of hydraulic fluid around argie aircraft is that they are not leaks -- the planes are marking their territory.
Nov 14th, 2016 - 01:28 pm - Link - Report abuse +4I would have thought Macri and his democratically elected government would have been better off buying helicopter gunships to suppress the Peronistas when they try it on coming up to the next election.
Nov 14th, 2016 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse -1@pgerman
Nov 14th, 2016 - 01:52 pm - Link - Report abuse +4I don't know of any country that makes claims over Arg territory.
Bolivia has institutionalised its claim over Chilean territory so we require to maintain a dissuasive force. Argentina also has a long historical desire to gain access to the pacific ocean. As Asia continues represent ever larger portion of global trade, that desire to access the pacific could become greater. Again we are wise to maintain a dissuasive force.
The FI has recent history to justify its requirement to maintain suitable protection.
Once bitten, twice shy.
Having jets that asure the control of the airspace is not related with any border claim. It is related with having control of the own air space for safety. It is also a matter of international security.
Nov 14th, 2016 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse -4Argentina has never wanted to get access to the Pacific Ocean. Argentina doesn't need any port in the Pacific Ocean in order to have access to its waters and Chile, also, doesn't need any port in the Atlantic Ocean to trade with Europe. We are in year 2016 !!!
What's the point of having “state of the art jet” if Argentina has nothing? thinking that the FI authorities considers that Argentina is their only threat.
The reality is that some immature, and childish, people prefer a dismantled, and disarmed, Argentina but they don't know that nowadays, in year 2016, an economic war can cause more damage, much more damage, than a conventional war. The decision of a government, any of it, of blocking an economic agreement or blocking any economic cooperation may cause much greater harm than any military incident.
I would try to reach, and promote, cooperation agreements with Argentina rather than dreaming with another war. We are the closest neighbour (700 kilometers far..) of the FI.
”....an economic war can cause more damage...
Nov 14th, 2016 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +5Argentina's economic war is with Argentina itself.
As a percentage of GNP, the lowest level of exports of any country in South America and one of the most deliberately closed to trade in the world
http://www.ieco.clarin.com/Argentina-economias-cerradas-mundo_0_1685831555.html
I would agree with you at - “promote, cooperation agreements with Argentina rather than dreaming with another war. ”
Nov 14th, 2016 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse +6The current history has shown that Argentina has threatened,vilified and boycotted the Falkland Islanders in the way of travel,trade and cooperation.
Posters here have exhibited downright hatred to continual sarcasm, calling them squatters, turnips or any other pejorative expression that springs to mind.
Yes a change of heart from Argentina would be welcome BUT would it be sincere?
I have said in the past that any sovereign state is entitled to an armed force commensurate to the risks it faces. Argentina is in no danger of an attack from the UK.
The British forces are there purely to prevent Argentina from contemplating a repeat of 1982.
“....a change of heart from Argentina would be welcome BUT would it be sincere?”
Nov 14th, 2016 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse +4-- There is no word in the Argenteenish language for “sincerity.” The closest term here would probably be the verb “fingir” = to pretend, to fake or feign.
Why doesn't Argentina follow the example of Costa Rica viz from Wikipedia
Nov 14th, 2016 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Historically, Costa Rica has generally enjoyed greater peace and more consistent political stability compared with many of its fellow Latin American nations. Since the late 19th century, however, Costa Rica has experienced two significant periods of violence. In 1917–19, General Federico Tinoco Granados ruled as a military dictator until he was overthrown and forced into exile. The unpopularity of Tinoco's regime led, after he was overthrown, to a considerable decline in the size, wealth, and political influence of the Costa Rican military. In 1948, José Figueres Ferrer led an armed uprising in the wake of a disputed presidential election between the previous president Rafael Ángel Calderón Guardia (he served as president between 1940 and 1944) and Otilio Ulate Blanco. With more than 2,000 dead, the resulting 44-day Costa Rican Civil War was the bloodiest event in Costa Rica during the 20th century.
The victorious rebels formed a government junta that abolished the military altogether, and oversaw the drafting of a new constitution by a democratically elected assembly. Having enacted these reforms, the junta transferred power to Ulate on November 8, 1949. After the coup d'état, Figueres became a national hero, winning the country's first democratic election under the new constitution in 1953. Since then, Costa Rica has held 14 presidential elections, the latest in 2014. With uninterrupted democracy dating back to at least 1948, the country is the region's most stable.
Condorito..., me dear but desmemoriado Shileno little brother....
Nov 14th, 2016 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse -4You are soooooo right about Argentina not needing any Offensive Armed Farces...
But....... quiiiiiiiite wrong about no Country no craving no Argentinean territory...
Can't you remember who...?
Just fill the voids...:
U _ _ _ _ _ K _ _ _ _ _ _ of G _ _ _ _ B _ _ _ _ _ _ a _ _ N _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I _ _ _ _ _ _...
That's who...
Think, you must be referring to those 'letters patent ' again, you know the ones where you don't quite understand the meaning of the words Islands, as you clearly think Patagonia is not part of the mainland, but an Island in the South Atlantic.
Nov 14th, 2016 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Other wise I can't see where you imagine the UK crave Argentine territory. The Falklands are neither under the jurisdiction or sovereignty of Argentina, so how can the UK crave Argentine Territory that Argentina do not own or control?. It is Argentina that craves the Islanders homes.
Just another plainly wrong statement by El Funk.
that the ten/twelve Kirchner years “downed” more Air Force aircraft than those lost during the South Atlantic conflict in 1982,
Nov 14th, 2016 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Surely that's a job well done on her part,
have you ever thought that she may secretly have worked for the British in systematically destroying her own military,
Just an argy thought..lol
Never mind. The Argies are taking on an easier option where they won't need aircraft. http://www.newshub.co.nz/world/argentina-declares-war-on-invasive-beavers-2016111508
Nov 14th, 2016 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse +1This smells of juicy contracts and fat commissions for the enablers.
Nov 14th, 2016 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Agree with the previous comments. The world will become a better place when the weapon merchants become all unemployed.
@pgerman
Nov 15th, 2016 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse +31. Could you please identify the threats to Argentinean airspace.
2. Argentina has long had designs on access to the Pacific.
In the 70s: Operación Soberanía.
In the 80s: Alfonsín - “crecer hacia el sur, hacia el mar y hacia el frío”.
In 2014: Domínguez - “Yo creo que es importante que la Argentina vuelva a repensar el norte argentino, que vuelva a repensar su salida al pacífico”.
@Think
You'd better hope Macri buys some expensive hardware to keep those nasty pirates away then.
@Condorito
Nov 15th, 2016 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse -4Do I have to explain to you what the concept of sovereignty is (and the ability to exercise it in the air space)?
Drug trafficking, potential terrorist attack, violation of airspace by air force of neighboring countries, ability to give air security to visiting presidents (All these issues has current real antecedents), etc....Do I really have to explain this to you?
It is in the interest of the entire international community that all countries have control over their territorial waters and airspace. This has been discussed many times in the United Nations itself.
Argentina must have a plan to growth looking the South of its territory and to ensure its sovereignty in this area. Why do you think this implies territorial (and illegal) intentions over Chilean sovereignty? At this point I assume that you are a very immature adolescent.
Since J.A. Roca and Pascasio Moreno times when it was agreed with Chile the exclusive rights on different oceans for each country there is no possibility of any conflict.
Of course, Argentina has to reveal and think about its access to Pacific waters for business purposes. Chile should also consider access to Argentine ports and waters to promote its exportations. Is this a conflicting situation? I would say that it is rather the opposite: it only confirms the need for mutual cooperation.
In the Argentine Weltanschauung, everything is “sovereignty.” International obligations to pay interest on bonds? Oh, no, that violates sovereignty. Respect for contracts involving intellectual property? Nope, contrary to Argentine sovereignty. Prohibiting foreign printed matter on the false premise that the printing ink is toxic or the content is not politically correct? A matter of Argentine sovereignty. Invasion of territories previously patented by a series of others? Well, sovereignty again. Winning of the Premio Internacional del Hazmerreír - a matter of sovereign pride.
Nov 15th, 2016 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse +1@pgerman
Nov 15th, 2016 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +3You don't need fighter aircraft for internal security. As I said in my first post, the money would be better spent to control illegal trafficking activities.
Which country has ever threatened or violated Arg airspace?
@Condorito
Nov 15th, 2016 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse -4Are you kidding? Are you saying that Argentina doesn't need a fighter jet to protect its air space or to exercise aerial sovereignty?
The RAF jets violated the argentine air space. They informed they were forced to fly over Tierra del Fuego because they had an emergency but, no matter the “emergency” they had time to fly, and land, in chilean territory. It seems that it was not a real emergency.after all...
When President Obama visited Argentina (last year) he had to use USAF planes to get air space protection since Argentina has no operative planes capable of providing security to Air Force One.
That is the shameful situation in which the useless nationalists of peronism left Argentina....it is more than obvious that a supersonic interceptor is urgently needed.
I understand that you, obsessed with a war that ended 35 years ago, prefer to have your paranoid hatred “enemy” unarmed but there are plenty of people in Argentina who are not very comfortable seeing that their country can not provide a basic air safety.
The Argentinians could have requested help from the RAF at the Falklands. I am sure that they would have been given an escort of Typhoons.
Nov 15th, 2016 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Condorito..., my dear descarriado Shilean lttle brother...
Nov 15th, 2016 - 08:41 pm - Link - Report abuse -7You say...:
You'd better hope Macri buys some expensive hardware to keep those nasty pirates away then...
I say...:
I hope Macri does no buy any expensive military hardware and I hope that Chile stops their disproportionate arms race based solely on itsunjusified (in 2016) inferiority complex...
Just read your own silly arguments...
You people are buying yourself poor in fighter jets to deterr what...? ............ BOLIVIA...!?!?!?!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolivian_Air_Force#Current_inventory
Chile has learned very well in our lifetimes the need to keep up its guard against Argentina, which twice in recent memory planned armed invasions of Chilean territory. The defensive minefields that Chile felt obliged to install near the its frontiers with Argentina, Bolivia, and Peru should help remind some people of the aggressive nature of its neighbours during the last 40 years.
Nov 15th, 2016 - 11:19 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Think
Nov 16th, 2016 - 10:45 am - Link - Report abuse +3Where do you get the impression that the UK has any pretensions to Argentine territory ?
It's the other way round. Argentina has aggressive desires for UK territory in the Falklands and proved this in 1982.
Unless you still T-H-I-N-K that the UK hankers after mainland Argentina.
We would not want that as a free gift with double Nectar points.
The fact that most argentine territory would necessarily come with resident argentines is reason enough for potential invaders to look elsewhere.
Nov 16th, 2016 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Think,
Nov 16th, 2016 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse +4I agree that it would be good for all if we could collectively reduce our military assets. You know very well that our air force not overly concerned with the Bolivian airforce. The Peruvian airforce is far superior and you may ask what is its purpose.
In my life time we have seen Argentina invade the sovereign territory of another country and we have Bolivia that demands part of our sovereign territory. A demand that was publicly supported by your ex-leader. Given the frequently belligerent rhetoric from our politically and economically unstable neighbours it would be foolish for us not to have a good deterrent.
My point about Argentina is that no such threats exist, not at present and not in the past, therefore they are in a unique position to lead regional disarmament. I don't wish, as pgerman seems to think, for a “weak” Argentina, I wish that we could all deescalate to the same relative weakness.
For Chile this is near impossible as long as neighbours maintain claims over our territory, a situation that your dear ex-leader inflamed rather than helped.
Of course there is an ulterior motive for a malvinista to keep 19th century disputes alive.
Condorcito -- Me tinca que Chile cuenta con 42 cazas F16 en condiciones operativas.
Nov 16th, 2016 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Son sólo 14 por cada país vecino manifiestamente hóstil.
Condorito..., me dear but desinformado Shilenian little brother..
Nov 16th, 2016 - 09:57 pm - Link - Report abuse -5You say...:
“My point about Argentina is that no such threats exist, not at present and not in the past...”
I say...:
Please don't use Argeninean history as an argument... when you don't know about Argentinean history...
You Shilenians have always have had us Argies as your feared big brother that awaked your worst paranoid nightmares..., we have always had Brasil...
Just one of many examples..., this one from my nick of the woods...:
Some years after Argentina succesfully helped Chile to archive their independence Brasil tried (with Anglo (and Shilean) help) to invade us fom the South!...:
... “In February 1827, a fleet of ships carrying Brazilan, Britsh and American troops, all under the commando of Engrishman James Shepherd, raided the settlement of Carmen de Patagones.
Their mission was to destroy Carmen and with the support of the local natives and the Pincheira family - infamous Shilean bandits who had fought for the loyalist cause in Shile - establish a Brazilian stronghold from which to send troops to Buenos Aires overland over the Pampas and from the southern seas...”
https://books.google.com.ar/books?id=sr2_BAAAQBAJ&pg=PT109&lpg=PT109&dq=james+shepherd+brazil+argentina&source=bl&ots=ZZs_YHh2Is&sig=2oc7N8fvHRFPYIKfakRn4zvgvFg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwialqyNoa7QAhXEOSwKHWoXCaIQ6AEIKTAF#v=onepage&q=james%20shepherd%20brazil%20argentina&f=false
Never to late to learn..., Condoriticito
Cachaí...?
In our very recent memory we recall two quite unambiguous attempts by Argentina to invade Chile and seize its territory, plus the Argentine attempt to seize the territory of another neighbour. Plus the unlawful colonisation of territory previously claimed by other neighbours. No one should ignore that sort of very contemporary history.
Nov 17th, 2016 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse +3Sí, cachamos, po.
Think uses an example of 200 years ago.....M.L. quotes RECENT history.
Nov 17th, 2016 - 10:36 am - Link - Report abuse +3Which is pertinent to today's “zeitgeist” ?
Yes, relevant recent history.
Nov 17th, 2016 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse +2I think there have been a dozen or more coups and “irregular” (nondemocratic) changes of government in Argentina in our lifetimes. There is still Designated Parking for tanks outside the Pink House. In fact, though it is not widely known, Argentina actually invented the Class Three Leak, Compound Serial Default, and Unstable Government.
Qui te pasa compa Condorito que no me conestaí...?
Nov 18th, 2016 - 01:07 pm - Link - Report abuse -2PLOP... ???
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