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MI certifies Trump's win, Stein sticks to recount plans in WI, PA but nothing will change

Tuesday, November 29th 2016 - 09:38 UTC
Full article 72 comments

Electoral officials for the state of Michigan certified Monday that Donald Trump won by 10,704 votes out of nearly 4.8 million to claim all of its 16 electoral votes. Green Party nominnee Jill Stein said she would continue with her petitions for vote recounts in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, although it would have taken a reversal in all three states for Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton to reach the presidency. Read full article

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  • ChrisR

    “Jill Stein was surprisingly successful raising funds...... George Soros suspected of being the mysterious philanthropist”

    But don't overlook TheHil!

    Another stupid woman with no credibility is wrong! Who'd have thunk that?

    Merkel gave TheHil GBP 4 M of German taxpayers money to fight the election. Another stupid woman with no credibility is wrong! Who'd have thunk that? MkII.

    You have to laugh! :o)

    Nov 29th, 2016 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    Does it make you feel better to diss three women who are all way more powerful and successful than you will ever be?

    Because as far as I can see, Jill Stein has just raised her profile considerably, Clinton has nothing to lose and everything to gain from a recount, and although predictably you are wrong about the donation going to Clinton's campaign (it actually went to her and her husband's charity), Germany would have been much better off with a Clinton presidency, so it was entirely rational for Merkel to do anything she could to encourage that outcome.

    Anyway, it will be good if the recount demonstrates there was no fraud. It's predictable but rather a shame that Trump is no longer interested in investigating now that he has won; people need to have confidence in the electoral process and its results.

    Nov 29th, 2016 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • chronic

    Diss?

    How old are you, Monkey?

    15?

    Nov 29th, 2016 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    Haha, I bet real 15 year olds don't even use that word any more. Slang moves on very quickly.

    Nov 29th, 2016 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Kanye

    DT

    “Diss”, it's trivial, and “Chronic” is simply grasping for some way to get in a put-down.

    Your remarks are right on target.

    Nov 29th, 2016 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • ChrisR

    @ DT

    Oh dear, defending the 'ladies' again, eh?

    They are grown ups and should be able to take the truth.

    Clearly you do not know the truth about Stein or even grasp she has crapped her nest in the party: they want her gone.

    Get real with this 'Clinton's Charity' it's the Clinton Foundation and is being investigated for bribery in office, money laundering and other matters.

    Don't you read TheHill? The very publication that did everything it could to keep Clinton in the race despite the 'trips', 'stumbles' and let's not forget being 'chucked in the Transit by the Special Service' when she 'froze', bit it was only pneumonia!

    As for Merkel, she has ruined the EU from within regarding her immigrants cock-up and is only just realizing it: too late - 'thank God' (from an atheist).

    :o)

    Nov 29th, 2016 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • ElaineB

    @ChrisR

    And yet, as DT stated, they are all infinitely more successful they you ever were or ever will be.

    Nov 29th, 2016 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Jack Bauer

    Looks like Jill Stein will have to put her money where her mouth is before the other recounts begin.....
    Then again, if it would take a reversal in all 3 States to favour Hillary, and in Michigan it's already been reconfirmed she lost, what's the point in carrying on ?

    But we've learned two things from Stein's actions :
    One, she and the liberals are bad losers, doing exactly what they accused Trump of, and
    Two, as expected, the funds to pay for all this baloney came from none other than Mr. Nice Guy, a.k.a. G. Soros...

    Nov 29th, 2016 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    @ ChrisR
    “They are grown ups and should be able to take the truth.”

    Somehow I doubt any of them are reading these comments! But I am sure they are all used to hearing the truth, and a lot of lies and insults as well; your comments being mostly the latter.

    If there is anything dodgy going on with the Clintons' charity then the investigation will find it. I am happy to wait and see.

    As for Merkel, I disagree with her refugee policy, as well as the way she treated Greece, but she's currently running for her fourth term as chancellor, and is the leader of the most powerful country in the EU. If you underestimate her then you are the stupid one.

    And do you actually think it is in Britain's interests to have someone else in charge of Germany?

    But I doubt you've even considered it. It's all a game to you; you seem to think predicting the result correctly makes you a 'winner'. Do you have any knowledge of or interest in either Trump or Clinton's policies, and what their effect might be on Britain or Uruguay? I have not seem any evidence of it. When you talk about politics in Uruguay you seem to take it seriously, but outside that you appear to base your preference mostly on personality.

    @JB
    Maybe she really does believe there was electoral fraud? Why do you think she is continuing?

    But Clinton has already conceded, so she did not do what Trump threatened. Recounts seem pretty harmless to me and could even be beneficial, what people were worried about was riots.

    Nov 29th, 2016 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    I think she 'wants' to believe there was fraud...I'm not saying it's impossible, but if there was, it could have been on either side and highly unlikely to alter the result....as we have seen with the recount in Michigan ; even if there was a reversal in the other two States, it still wouldn't modify the outcome....so why doesn't she just let it go ? to me, because like most of these inbred liberals, they think they can win by sheer insistence...
    Anyway, after the all recounts are finished, despite the fact they won't change anything, d'you think the democrats will back down ?

    Nov 29th, 2016 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    It's possible you are right; I don't think they will find any fraud, but it's better for people to be convinced. And if there was any, it is certainly better for it be uncovered!

    How do you mean, will the Democrats back down? What do you want them to do or not do? I think there may be more protests in the future, but that will depend on what Trump actually does once he is President.

    Nov 29th, 2016 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • ChrisR

    @ DT and EB (is this your new boyfriend?)

    “As for Merkel, she has ruined the EU from within regarding her immigrants cock-up and is only just realizing it: too late.”

    And this is wrong DT or a lie EB? You wish.

    “If you underestimate her then you are the stupid one.”

    Mmmm. I think you keep looking backwards whilst I keep my pulse on what is happening in the near future. Still, you are leaning towards EB by calling me names. She will be so pleased: you will be lying next.

    EB
    The principle reason why people are pathological liars, as you are, is because they are scared stiff that they will fail, either in their 'job' because they are frauds or people will realise they are indeed PLs.

    So true for you.

    DT
    As for Uruguay and the Trump effect why are you so bothered? You keep trying to inflict your naïve view of the real world onto Uruguay, it's laughable to all those who know SA for what it is.

    I imagine Trump will be far more positive for us than Obumma ever was, but I have to accept he was dealing with Mujica whose only outstanding comment to him when he visited the WH was to “learn Spanish”!

    Nov 30th, 2016 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • ElaineB

    ChrisR

    You have really lost it. ”(is this your new boyfriend?)“ What a fool you are. Using your childish logic and throwing it back at you we should all be singing ”Chris R and Chro-nic sitting in a tree, K.I.S.S.I.N.G..

    ““As for Merkel, she has ruined the EU from within regarding her immigrants cock-up and is only just realizing it: too late.”

    And this is wrong DT or a lie EB? You wish.”

    I didn't comment on Merkel's policies. You are letting your obsession with me blind you.

    “EB
    The principle reason why people are pathological liars, as you are, is because they are scared stiff that they will fail, either in their 'job' because they are frauds or people will realise they are indeed PLs.

    So true for you.”

    Projecting again. The only person caught in a bare-faced lie on this message board is YOU. Still embarrassed about it are you? I guess you must be as you are desperate to try to project that onto me. I haven't lied about anything. I don't need to. You have no credibility here so repeatedly telling people I lie when clearly I don't only makes you look more deranged.

    The only failure around here is you, ChrisR. Your business failed. You had to sell your house at the bottom of the market. You couldn't afford to live in the U.K. anymore and can't afford to move back. You had to move to a developing country to have a reasonable standard of living. And you even failed there by choosing a country you do nothing but complain about.

    How do I know all this? Because you have posted all those facts on here. You are a bitter and angry old failure.

    Nov 30th, 2016 - 01:55 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • chronic

    Conway, oooooooh you silly gal!

    So, whoever funded the jill stein recount drive was cognizant enough to break the contributions up into smaller increments but they failed to add any variability to the hourly rate of accumulation.

    Hah!

    As a further blunder they persisted at the same rate during the night.

    They're obviously democrats as Republicans are much to experienced at this kind of thing to make such a transparent guffaw.

    So much for plausible deniability, Soreass.

    Nov 30th, 2016 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    @ ChrisR
    What do you expect to happen in the German election? They have some kind of system with PR, so although the new rightwing populist AfD party are likely to win seats, even a lot of seats, they're very unlikely to get a majority. The most that could happen is that Merkel's party is forced to go into coalition with them. Or maybe the left wing parties could form a coalition like the Broad Front in Uruguay, would you prefer that to Merkel winning again?

    Which part of my views on Uruguay do you think is naive? That even the so-called 'stinking poor' should still be able to vote on their government? Or that it would be better for the government to enforce the laws rather than citizens taking them into their own hands?

    As for Obama, I heard he let Uruguay export their oranges to the US in return for taking some prisoners from Guantanamo. ;) Perhaps Trump will give you a similar deal? But why do you think he will be better for Uruguay, given that he is anti-globalisation and anti-free trade?

    Also I didn't actually call you any names, but I did attack your motives, which I probably shouldn't have done. I'll try to stick to what you have actually said in future.

    Nov 30th, 2016 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ EB

    The only reason you claim I made a lie was when you lied/obfuscated my post.

    You see, the people on here from when I first posted in 2011 know the truth about you. I am not the first to feel your female wrath stirred up in your 'Pathological Offset' brain.

    I can tell you when I last told a lie (other than a white lie to my wife about some cloths that she liked and I was ambivalent about) and I was NINE. You have still to learn the very simple truth that liars ALWAYS get caught out.

    But of course, as a PL you tell lies when YOU want to, the thing you are lying about may well be true but you are unable to stop yourself.

    ”The only failure around here is you, ChrisR. Your business failed. [I has a number of businesses, one of which failed, but I still managed to have enough money to move to Oz until The Cunt Brown © Jeremy Clarkson 2010 did exactly the wrong thing by bailing out Northern Rock because he has 6,000 Labour voters in the NE and the election coming, and even you should know what happened next] You had to sell your house at the bottom of the market. [yes, and why was that? Or do you want me to set it out in words of one syllable? You really can allow your innate stupidity to come to light at times] You couldn't afford to live in the U.K. anymore [we moved for the health of my wife and you DO know that] and can't afford to move back [you really are stupid if you think anybody but you believes that]. You had to move to a developing country to have a reasonable standard of living. And you even failed there by choosing a country you do nothing but complain about.[I complain about the murdering commie bastards in the government but I suppose, just to spite me, you would give them all a blow job (or a licking) ?]

    Just do as your shrink has advised, calm down, close your eyes until the red mist has gone and take a Prozac for your DID.

    Nov 30th, 2016 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • ElaineB

    @ ChrisR

    You sad old man. All your failures are everyone else fault, right? I guess you couldn't live with yourself if you admitted the truth. If you moved for your wife's health then why not Europe? Why make her move away from her family because surely that can't be good for her health missing out on her grandchild growing up? Is it because you needed somewhere dirt cheap to avoid being one of the 'stinking poor' you so revile.

    I think people here have seen your deterioration over the recent years. Your anger and bitterness has grown as you realise that life in Uruguay is not really all you hoped it would be. The reason is that the problem is not everyone else, not the U.K., not Australia, not Uruguay, it is you.

    You were caught out in a bare-faced lie on this message board. It was witnessed by everyone. You did what you always do when caught out, you disappear from the thread and wait for it to drop off the board. But it is still there in the archive for everyone to read.

    Since you mention your wife, is that how you speak to her when she disagrees with you? Do you accuse her of giving blow jobs and licking arses?

    Nov 30th, 2016 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • ChrisR

    @ EB

    You are almost as naïve as your new boyfriend but I think he would have understood what you clearly have not!

    So just to make it clear for you:
    Blow job - someone (any sex) sucking an erect penis;
    A licking - someone (any sex) licking the genitals of a female.

    Still, whatever 'floats your boat'.

    Have you spoken to your psychiatrist about your obsession with 'licking arses'?

    The rest of your post is true to form - same old, same old, nothing to see here.

    Nov 30th, 2016 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse -6
  • ElaineB

    ChrisR

    You brought up arse licking and then explained it in detail, I guess that floats your boat. Chris R and Chronic sitting in a tree, K.I.S.S.I.N.G.

    “The rest of your post is true to form” Yes, it is called the truth. Same as always.

    Your language is filthy in all the threads so I guess that is how you speak to your wife. Poor woman. What do you call her when she doesn't cook your meal just so or irons your shirts wrong?

    Nov 30th, 2016 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    Sigh, back to insulting each other again. I suppose I will have to start calling you names, ChrisR, if I actually want to get a reply?

    Nov 30th, 2016 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • ElaineB

    @ DT

    True but he has been insulting me in almost every post he makes, including threads where I am not posting. He is using the Trump method of saying the same lie about me hoping people will eventually believe it. Don't you wish some of Trump's opponents had put him in his place?

    Throw him an insult and he will engage.

    Nov 30th, 2016 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    “How do you mean, will the Democrats back down? What do you want them to do or not do? I think there may be more protests in the future, but that will depend on what Trump actually does once he is President.”

    I mean, after the result (of the election) has been shown to be correct, will they keep on protesting the simple fact that he won ? That won't change anything.
    But, if Trump implements or gets any law passed that they disagree with, sure protesting (without violence) is valid...but, here you've got to be able to discern whether the protests are due to legitimate grievances, or just protesting in order to try to make the Trump administration fail ? That is what is happening in Brazil....the PT and their allies are trying to disrupt the Temer government in every possible way they can, going against every measure he proposes, even if essential to pull Brazil out of the hole...

    Nov 30th, 2016 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • chronic

    Chris, you've really got the ole bag going now.

    Careful, she might pop a gasket.

    Nov 30th, 2016 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    Oh, you mean the protesters? I thought you were talking about the politicians. Not sure they truly are Democrat supporters, but with only two parties I guess they don't have much choice.

    Are people still protesting? If so I imagine they will get bored soon, like you say it won't change anything.

    But I don't know if they will be protesting everything or will be more selective. The Tea Party appeared to have the single goal of making Obama fail, and were somewhat successful at it - they were behind the government shutdown and US default when they refused to authorise raising the debt ceiling - but I don't think the actual Democratic party will go that far. (And they don't have a majority in either house so there is a limit to what they can do.) But the protesters are another matter. Supposing Soros or other people are really funding them, maybe they will try to make as much trouble as possible. But if they do I don't believe they will be as effective in the US as in Brazil.

    About Temer, has he passed any other laws, not related to austerity? And did people protest those too?

    Nov 30th, 2016 - 11:16 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • ChrisR

    @ EB

    So now you don't know your genitals from your 'arse' (your first use)?

    That does not surprise me with how you react to any 'inappropriate' use of words which as far as you are concerned is seemingly any word. That comes out of the DiD, but you know that.

    @ DT

    How can telling the truth be insulting or indeed calling her names?

    EB is a PL, she does exhibit DiD.

    Despite her protestations there are others on here (and many no longer posting) who she has given the same treatment as she does to me. Give it time she will start on you.

    But, if you think you should call me names and insult me because of EB that has to be your decision.

    Dec 01st, 2016 - 12:35 pm - Link - Report abuse -4
  • ElaineB

    ChrisR

    Why do you persist with your lies about me? All because I disagreed with you on gun ownership. That really is sad.

    Dec 01st, 2016 - 12:48 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    @ ChrisR
    Don't be absurd, you're certainly not a psychiatrist and are no more able to diagnose anyone as a pathalogical liar over the internet than ElaineB can diagnose dementia. You are both simply calling each other names and it's very tiresome to watch.

    I don't want to start insulting you or anyone else but you seem a lot quicker to respond to my posts when I do. If you'd rather fight with ElaineB - yet again - than talk about the election in Germany or Trump's effect on Uruguay that is up to you.

    Dec 01st, 2016 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • ElaineB

    @ DT Tiresome is exactly what it is. I have tried ignoring him for long periods of time but he posts insults about me constantly even in threads I am not posting in. He is completely obsessive in his stalking of me and that is not normal behaviour. The editors have removed his more disgusting posts but that doesn't deter him. I have asked him to just ignore me and I will ignore him but he just continues with the insults. So you tell me what is the solution?

    Dec 01st, 2016 - 01:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @ ElaineB
    Either ignore him or defend yourself but stop the personal attacks. (Ie don't do what I did in my first post.) No need to accuse him of going senile, bring up his wife etc.

    Dec 01st, 2016 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • ElaineB

    @DT Done that, the personal attacks don't stop. He even tried to find me in real life/off line. He boasted about it and ridiculed the woman's looks. Obviously it wasn't me but his obsession is relentless and beyond anything a sane person would do.

    You haven't been around long but I endured the personal attacks for a very long time before I hit back. I only mention his wife because he used her as a 'witness' to confirm his personal attacks against me. Apparently she confirmed everything he said about me. That makes her involved.

    Other posters have told him he is out of line and to stop it. He doesn't.

    Put yourself in my position. Imagine someone like ChrisR repeatedly posted that you are a paedophile. In every post. In threads you don't post in. Constantly making that slur. Remember a lot more people read the threads than post. Would you allow that to go on without responding? And if you are further going to say, yes but everyone will know ChrisR is a liar because he has been caught out many times before, new people come along without knowing his past.

    So, any other suggestions?

    Dec 01st, 2016 - 06:18 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    @ ElaineB
    Only what I said before; defend yourself without attacking him. I'm sure I have seen you start the insults in other threads, and if he was calling you a paedophile (seriously?) he hasn't done it recently.

    Dec 01st, 2016 - 10:58 pm - Link - Report abuse -5
  • ElaineB

    @DT I didn't say that, I asked you to imagine if he was calling YOU a pedophile (or any other equally offensive slur) in every thread how YOU would react. I am certain you would not ignore it if you were being lied about. He has said some pretty awful stuff including telling me to do everyone a favour and commit suicide. That was before your time too. The more disgusting sexual references have been removed.

    Well, thanks, but I am guessing you won't have any useful advice on dealing with him.

    Dec 01st, 2016 - 11:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @DT

    ChrisR has indeed been extremely graphic and vulgar, on a recurring misogynistic theme.

    Elaine is correct.

    Dec 01st, 2016 - 11:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    Elaine is correct about what exactly...?
    This is not correct...
                                  “You had to sell your house at the bottom of the market. You couldn't afford to live in the U.K. anymore and can't afford to move back. You had to move to a developing country to have a reasonable standard of living. ”

    ...so he owned his own house, he was retired, both he and his wife would get a Govt pension plus he has also mentioned private pensions...
    Of course he could have afforded to stay in the UK...we all know he moved for a more beneficial climate for his wife...couldn't afford AUS and decided on SA over the likes of Spain/Portugal...Having to sell at rock bottom was probably all to do with timing... a property became available and needed funds...
    Is there some sort of stigma attached to moving to SA...?
    ...got be better than Chaving it in Spain....

    ...and I'm still trying to work out how it's beneficial to your health to hang about and watch grandchildren grow up...
    Pure nonsense....

    Could have been worse...he could've moved to Canada....
    He does overdo the vulgar a bit, but it doesn't bother me..
    ...and I'm no ones pal..I merely observe...

    ..I know what you are thinking..
    Mr.Think's pal....yeah.. probably ....;-)

    Dec 02nd, 2016 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse -4
  • ElaineB

    @ TT

    Thank you.

    @ Voice

    TT was referring to ChrisR's behaviour towards me when he said I was correct.

    “He does overdo the vulgar a bit, but it doesn't bother me..”

    Thank you for agreeing with the point I was making. That it doesn't bother you is because it isn't aimed at you.

    Dec 02nd, 2016 - 02:07 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Voice

    I meant vulgar per se....
    Take a leaf out of my book...the insults I receive are usually on a daily basis...I don't make a big deal of it...
    ..or learn from this guy....

    IF you can keep your head when all about you
    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
    If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
    But make allowance for their doubting too;
    If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
    Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
    Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
    And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

    If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
    If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
    If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
    And treat those two impostors just the same;
    If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
    Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
    And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

    He apparently also makes exceedingly good cakes....;-)

    Dec 02nd, 2016 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • ChrisR

    Oh dear!

    VULGAR now is it?

    I think telling lies and being a pathological liar is far worse for any society.

    “Misoginisim”: is the hatred [no, I detest EB, hatred for me is the flip side of the coin marked 'love'] of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls [no, only EB]. Misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including social exclusion, sex discrimination, hostility, androcentrism [men at the centre of the world, since when?], patriarchy, male privilege, belittling of women [no. EB does that with HER attitude], violence against women [never], and sexual objectification [I have to admit to liking WOMEN but distain for feminists, particularly those like EB] Misogyny can occasionally be found within sacred texts of religions and mythologies, and various influential Western philosophers and thinkers have been described as misogynistic.

    There, we have ME.

    EB: FFS grow up about guns, you stupid, stupid female. You belittle the women of the world with your nonsense.

    Dec 02nd, 2016 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • ElaineB

    @ ChrisR

    Q.E.D. Thank you for proving my point about you.

    Dec 02nd, 2016 - 02:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ EB

    Try reading my post with your head tuned to neutral and without the rose tinted glasses when looking at the qualified text.

    Too much to hope for though.

    Dec 02nd, 2016 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    @ ElaineB
    Sorry, I don't have any more suggestions.

    I agree with you a lot of the time, but I can say that when I first started posting here - not knowing either of you - that it was the things you said about ChrisR that made you look bad, and the things he said about you that made him look bad. Not the other way around.

    @ ChrisR
    You post saying you detest ElaineB and call her stupid twice, and then complain she didn't read said post with her “head tuned to neutral”?

    Now THAT'S stupid.

    Dec 02nd, 2016 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    “@JB
    Oh, you mean the protesters? I thought you were talking about the politicians.”

    When I mentioned “I hoped the Democrats would back down”, I was thinking of the politicians - those leading the recount efforts - but I suppose it applies to the protestors as well ; when will they realize they are pissing against the wind ?

    I remember the shutdown...it was the only option the republicans had to fight BO and the democrat Senate...besides not agreeing to raise the debt ceiling they refused to fund any resolution which did not defund Ob'care. If they were later considered irresponsible, what to say of the stubborness on the other side for not wanting to reach a compromise ? It's politics. As to the democrats today, they are minority in both the House of Reps and the Senate, so they are hardly in a position to put up any real resistance. It will come down to the more moderate republicans to see that things don't fly off the handle.

    Temer, despite his 'impopularity' - as usual the protests from the rowdy minority seem to deafen the silent majority which realizes things MUST change - is doing what HAS to be done ; to be honest, many of the current problems originated decades ago, due to ongoing political accomodation and /or the refusal to address such issues (such as austerity measures, and deep reforms in many government areas), because they're seen as highly impopular, Brazil has reached a crossroad...either they do their homework, or we are screwed. If a populist government wins the elections end 2018, and by then Temer hasn't managed to conclude these essential reforms, things are going to get worse...
    The problems have existed for decades, and have been ignored, but the PT's corruption and populism really pushed us over the edge...on the other hand, in 2002 Lula promised - if elected - he would push these reforms through, and he could have too, due to his popularity, but he also chose to ignore them. His goal was quite different .

    Dec 02nd, 2016 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • The Voice

    Ummm Yawwwn... as for Mr Kipling he was ell known in Africa too ;-)

    Dec 03rd, 2016 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    I hadn't heard that any of the politicians were particularly in favour of the recount; only Clinton and her campaign team, who decided to support it after it had started. I think some Democratic senators actually condemned it and others basically said Stein had a right to do it and it would reassure voters.

    About the shutdown, the main instigators were not willing to make any kind of compromise, so Obama had the choice of either giving in to them completely or standing firm. They were essentially trying to blackmail him by refusing funding for unrelated matters. I would not have been impressed at all if he had given in.

    The Democrats are a minority in the Senate but because of the weird way US politics works they are still able to 'filibuster' to block laws. At least that is what I have heard. But I think it's true the moderate Republicans will have more responsibility; I hope there still are some and it's not all Tea Partiers and religious fundamentalists now.

    In Brazil, what makes you think the 'silent majority' IS a majority? People you know probably believe things have to change, but most of the population just sees a lot of corruption wasting their money, and quite likely think that fixing that will be enough.

    It's interesting you say many of the problems have been around for decades though. What are the long standing problems that Temer needs to fix? And why did no previous government do it? The military one can't have cared very much about popularity after all.

    Dec 03rd, 2016 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Briton

    ElaineB [ remember this you said to me ]

    . We have every right to express our opinion. If you don't like it don't read the comments because I will post whatever I choose.

    you cant have it both ways,
    its just my opinion, but it would be better if all just left the page and moved on,

    just relax, sit down and have a cuppa,

    there, isn't that better,
    21 days to XMAS, be happy..

    Dec 03rd, 2016 - 09:15 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    Clinton jumped on the bandwagon once Jill Stein took the initiative - which she (JS) had every right to do - a synergy has been created that will probably have to run its course if people are to finally accept the results.
    To agree or not with the 2013 shutdown, all depends what side you're on...both sides will usually find plausible reasons to defend their views. After Ted Cruz’s filibuster, trying to block Ob’care, Harry Reid, backed by a Dem controlled Senate, managed to change the rule, requiring only a simple vote to block them ; more recently, envisioning the Dems regaining the Senate and HRC in the WH, he said that if Republicans tried to block any of HRC’s nominees, specifically for the Supreme Court, they’d change the rules agai...in 2013, Republicans warned him it would come back to bite him in the ass, and now it has.
    It is known that minorities are usually the more vocal in most societies, and it's also quite obvious that the silent majority are those who are content to allow things to continue as they are. In Brazil it's no different. All the protests against Dilma, since mid 2013, have attracted hundreds times more people than those defending her, even with cash payments and baloney sandwiches....the elections held end October gave the PT such a whipping, it's clear that the majority were fed up, this time including a good portion of the lower middle class and the poor - usually PT supporters - who were the ones hardest hit by Dilma's failed policies. They woke up when the crisis reached their pockets.

    Temer will have to reduce Government expenses drastically, not so much investments. He'll have to convince Congress to reform the social security system whih produces enormous deficits, the rules that govern workers contracts and other benefits, a tax reform, a political reform in order to eliminate absurd situations...in the 60's Brazil was totally different, the problems becoming evident only after the civilians took over.

    Dec 03rd, 2016 - 10:39 pm - Link - Report abuse +5
  • ElaineB

    @ Briton

    I am not sure what point you are trying to make. Surely you know the difference between expressing an opinion and disgusting personal abuse?

    Dec 04th, 2016 - 10:06 am - Link - Report abuse +2
  • ChrisR

    @ DemonTree
    “You post saying you detest ElaineB and call her stupid twice, and then complain she didn't read said post with her “head tuned to neutral”?
    Now THAT'S stupid.”

    OK, given it's who it is, but you wouldn't have had a problem I suspect.

    Dec 04th, 2016 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • ElaineB

    @ ChrisR

    Have you asked yourself why you have such an irrational problem with me? Am I the first woman you haven't been able to bully into agreeing with you?

    Dec 04th, 2016 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    “To agree or not with the 2013 shutdown, all depends what side you're on”

    True, but from my perspective as a non-American, it makes the country look unreliable and the government seem like squabbling children, so perhaps not the best tactic to use.

    The Democrats only changed the rules for Presidential Appointments, not laws and not including Supreme Court judges. So they can still filibuster on laws and the new Supreme Court appointment, unless the Republicans decide to change the rules further. Whether they will regret it remains to be seen. Seems to me the real problem is that the two 'sides' are no longer willing to work together, and when that is the case no set of rules can make things run smoothly.

    Are the 'silent majority' supposed to be those people who are reasonably happy with the status quo and have no reason to make a fuss about anything? It makes sense; if you have no particular problems then you have no reason to be vocal.

    But in Brazil they are not silent any more, since they have been protesting against Dilma, and you said in your last post that they are the people who understand things have to change, not that they are content to allow things to continue as they are. Anyway it does seem that a lot of people who supported the PT have changed their minds.

    Sounds like Temer is in for a fun time with all those unpopular reforms to make. But didn't the military government rule Brazil until 1985? That's a lot more recent than the 60s. And it's only recently too that we've been hearing about the BRICS and Brazil becoming powerful.

    @ ChrisR
    I think the vast majority of people would have a problem with that. You could try it on some in real life, and see how reasonable they are. If you choose your victims/test subjects carefully, you may even be able to avoid getting punched.

    Dec 04th, 2016 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • ChrisR

    @ EB

    No 'irrational problem' for me, a REAL problem with you due to:
    your pathological lying about me, even though I have never lied;
    twisting the text of my posts to portray them to suit you and your ridiculous claims about me;
    disregarding actual printed facts about gun laws because of your comment 'I know what I think, I don't need to read it from a link!

    And let's not forget your ludicrous claim that 'you stand up against men', which in practice means you would NEVER agree with any man.

    Clear now? But you knew this, didn't you, you only act stupid when the red mist comes down.

    @ DT
    “I think the vast majority of people would have a problem with that”

    Not in my experience. As for “getting punched” that has never happened not could I see it ever happening if the exchange was frank and truthful by both parties.

    But that's the problem with EB, we all know her for what she is.

    Dec 04th, 2016 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • chronic

    Whoa!

    What happened in PA?

    Sending the $$'s back? Or is GS just going to stop by and pick up a check?

    Dec 04th, 2016 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse -5
  • DemonTree

    @ ChrisR
    “Not in my experience.”

    So how many times in real life have you told someone you know that you detest them? How many people have you called stupid to their face? And how did they react to that?

    I don't believe that you really act like that in real life, where you're not anonymous. It's the anonymity of the internet that brings out the worst in people.

    As for you never lying:

    “They don't want an Obumma and they certainly don't want a Clinton. The ONLY people who want that pair are the vested interests and the existing 'diplomatic' corps...”

    Is very clearly not true, and you said it today.

    And I assume you are using the Royal We in talking about Elaine, because I certainly don't think she's a pathological liar.

    Dec 04th, 2016 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Think

    Geeeeeeee....
    This thread is kind of funny...;-)

    Dec 04th, 2016 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse -4
  • ElaineB

    @ ChrisR

    It is irrational. Your stalking me around, trying to find me offline and constant attacks are irrational.

    No, I don't lie because I don't need to. You, however, have been caught lying on here and you don't seem to be able to get over it. It was witnessed by many regular contributors to why not just accept it and move on.

    “disregarding actual printed facts about gun laws because of your comment 'I know what I think, I don't need to read it from a link!”

    'actual printed facts'. Just because something is printed doesn't mean it is fact.

    And there we have it again. The real reason for your irrational hatred of me. I don't and never will agree with you on gun laws. I don't need to read any link you post because it will prove nothing. You believe people in the U.K. should have guns if they want them and I don't. The majority of the U.K. public agrees with me and that is why after Dunblane our laws on gun ownership were changed. Not incidentally, there have been no mass shootings in schools since then. The U.K. is not a gun culture and I am very pleased about that. That gun enthusiasts like you had to surrender your weapons was a very good result. The way you casually talk about shooting people on here confirms to me that you are not a fit person to have a gun. No responsible person would do that.

    “And let's not forget your ludicrous claim that 'you stand up against men', which in practice means you would NEVER agree with any man.”

    That is a nonsense conclusion to make. I do stand up to bullying and offensive men because I am not intimidated by them. That does not mean I don't agree with any man and you have seen me do so many times on this message board.

    Dec 04th, 2016 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    ElaineB, about your post just above...
    You say...:
    “No, I don't lie because I don't need to.”
    I say...:
    Yes, you lie a lot about Argentinean issues because you...???...

    You say further on your post just above ..:
    A lot of other stuff...
    I say..:
    ..................................... which I fully agree with...

    Be a a sweet wee lassie and drop your Argie porkies..., It will become you...

    Dec 04th, 2016 - 08:41 pm - Link - Report abuse -4
  • ElaineB

    @ Think

    I don't lie but express my opinion about Argentinean issues based on my first-hand experience and extensive research on certain issues. What you call a 'lie' is a difference of opinion because you and I hold very different views on the Kirchners.

    Dec 04th, 2016 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Briton

    Well I did try,
    anyway what's all this got to do with Trump's win,

    All so often one goes of track and ends up in the middle of nowhere,

    in five years time [if we all last that long] we will find out if trump actually did a good job or we all end up in a very quiet place known as the cemetery...
    just a thought.

    Dec 04th, 2016 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    ElaineB..., as you well know, me dear lassie...

    My problem with you is certainly NOT your opinions, wiews and comments against the Kirchner administration in general and some of their mistakes, failures and blunders in particular...

    Some of them, I share... others no...

    My problem with you is your evident and proven porkies, slander, libel and smear against anything related to the Kirchner administration...

    (And, of course, your more than evident jealousy and green eyed envy against that brave girl called Cristina...)

    Dec 04th, 2016 - 09:42 pm - Link - Report abuse -5
  • ElaineB

    @ Think

    “My problem with you is your evident and proven porkies, slander, libel and smear against anything related to the Kirchner administration…”

    No proven lies. For it to be slander or libel it would have to be false. Smears? That, again is a matter of opinion. You call it a smear and I call it expressing my opinion of the Kirchners.

    ”(And, of course, your more than evident jealousy and green eyed envy against that brave girl called Cristina…)”

    Now, one could call that a blatant lie, libellous and a smear against me.

    There is nothing to be jealous about CFK. Nothing at all.

    Dec 04th, 2016 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    ElaineB...

    Jealous and envious about everything hers..., you are..., lassie...
    Her success..., her charisma..., her strenght..., her clothes..., her shoes....
    Speaking about shoes...
    Do you remember your porkies about her Louboutin shopping spree...?
    http://www.corriere.it/esteri/13_maggio_03/corriere-della-sera-condannato-kirchner_e36dcfbc-b3f3-11e2-a510-97735eec3d7c.shtml

    Dec 04th, 2016 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse -6
  • ElaineB

    @ Think

    Her shoes? Seriously, you admire her shoes? And her clothes? I am learning something new about you.

    There is nothing at all to be jealous of. Nothing at all..

    Dec 04th, 2016 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    @ Think
    What 'lies' has Elaine told that newspapers such as Clarin have not?

    Dec 04th, 2016 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Think

    ElaineB...
    It's you commenting, amiting and envying her shoes..., not me...

    DemonTree...
    I'm coresponding with ElaineB..., not Clarin...

    Dec 04th, 2016 - 10:48 pm - Link - Report abuse -6
  • ElaineB

    @ Think

    No, I don't envy her shoes at all. There is nothing to envy about CFK.

    Now we have established that you can rest easy. You don't need me to tell you again.

    @ DT Think is just stirring. He has nothing to contribute.

    Dec 04th, 2016 - 10:56 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Green eyed envy..., indeed...

    Dec 04th, 2016 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse -6
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    “True, but from my perspective as a non-American, it makes the country look unreliable and the government seem like squabbling children,......”

    Although there has always been political rivalry between parties in the US, I can't recall such bitter, lengthy confrontations as those during BO's administration....and with rare exceptions, imo, the political class just proved they are ordinary idiots, looking after their personal interests instead of that of the country. One thing BO succeeded in, was dividing the country, making racial tensions surface again...while he might have developed a 'cool' manner of communicating after he was elected, some of his views and declarations just made people angrier...

    “Are the 'silent majority' supposed to be those people who are reasonably happy.....It makes sense; if you have no particular problems then you have no reason to be vocal”.

    I can see a big similarity between the silent majority and cattle....they only get uneasy when they are being lead to the slaughterhouse...they're the ones who tend to accomodate themselves, and are slow to react - it's not that they don't care, it's more like they couldn't be bothered...I have some friends like that...they complained like hell about the PT, yet coudn't be bothered to get off their arses to vote...
    Although the PT and their cronies take their role as opposition in Congress very seriously, in that they go against anything, and everthing proposed by the government, regardless of whether needed to get the country back on track, generally speaking, people are becoming fed up with their radical stance...having now realized that's what caused the recession.
    The military ruled from 1964 to 1985.. during this period, politicians were kept in check, without the power to legislate in their own cause...but that soon changed after 1985, when the civilians regained power...as they say, 'old habits die hard'.
    The 'BRICS' unsurprisingly, hasn't yet really taken off.

    Dec 05th, 2016 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    Yeah, things do seem to have got worse in the US in the last few years. Although I think it start during Bush's presidency, it really came to a head during Obama's. I saw people online literally calling him the Antichrist, and there were tons of fake stories about how he was a Muslim and wanted to destroy America, and of course the birther nonsense.

    Basically people went from having different opinions, to not even believing in the same facts; a dangerous situation. And now the fake news has really taken over. Last thing I heard is that a man went to a pizza restaurant with a gun and started firing it (thankfully he didn't hurt anyone), because he believed a fake news story about it. It's getting more and more disturbing.

    I have never understood people who don't vote; especially the ones who say politicians never listen to them. Why the hell would they listen to you if you're not voting?

    And it sounds like the PT are not doing their job as opposition properly at all. They're not supposed to be against everything, but actually use their judgement on whether it's a good idea, and also look for problems and side effects in the government's plans and point them out. I guess it's not surprising though, and they probably do oppose most of Temer's plans anyway.

    As for the BRICS, yeah they each have their own problems, but the recent boom in Brazil was pretty impressive. I guess it has got those countries more attention from the rest of the world if nothing else.

    Dec 05th, 2016 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    I don't know what 'fake news' you've heard on BO being a Muslim, but I've seen and heard plenty of news that confirms he is one...his swooping bow to King Saud a few years back (then his denial), his speeches praising Islam as the 'greatest religion on earth, his refusal to say “islamic” and “'terror” in the same sentence, his refusal to acknowledge that today's terrorism is carried out by Muslims, is undeniable evidence that he is a devout Muslim - not that there's anything wrong with being one, provided a 'peace-loving' one....

    Back to the PT...As opposition, before they got into power (in 2003), and after they were stripped of power 3 months ago, they have always voted against every govt proposal - when FHC instituted the social programme that was the precursor to the 'bolsa familia', they claimed it was just a gimmick to gain votes, yet once in power, they latched on to it, tooth and nail (they saw it as a good source of corruption). They voted against the “plano Real', then Dilma, in 2014, had the nerve to claim it was a PT project, and so on. Now they again are voting against everything, as their sole objective is the obstruct govt as much as they can...
    The BRICS was hailed as a new platform for these countries to start a new cycle of development, but so far hasn't done much...

    Regarding your last post under the title ”US actor Steven Seagal...”, I was unable to answer it as it was closed for comments....will reply when an opening appears...

    Dec 07th, 2016 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @ JB
    Are you serious? That's the crappiest evidence I ever heard. When was he supposed to have become Muslim anyway? He's a public figure, someone would have noticed. Muslims are supposed to pray 5 times a day, kneeling and facing Mecca, why has no one ever seem him do it? They have to eat special food, you think if he asked for that someone wouldn't talk about it? He's said he's a Christian plenty of times; apostasy carries a death sentence for Muslims, and you can guess they aren't too shy to carry this out, whatever the law says.

    He also goes to church; he even got in trouble because the church he went to had a dodgy racist pastor, I recall.

    Here's Bush bowing to the same king, btw: http://www.batterypark.tv/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/W-Bush-bowing-to-saudi-king-2003.jpg

    About the PT, have you seen the latest story? Sounds like they might have more power to block things soon. They also sound like hypocrites, but that doesn't seem very surprising.

    Anyway, you can reply to my other post now.

    Dec 08th, 2016 - 12:10 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Kanye

    DT

    JB sounds a rabidly demented over this Muslim nonsense.

    Is he really perhaps “Chronic” in drag?

    Lol, silly multi-persona trolls !

    Dec 08th, 2016 - 05:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    Watch this youtube vídeo, https://youtu.be/tCAffMSWSzY, just the first couple of minutes, and draw your own conclusions. There’s also a video circulating on the net, in which a NYT reporter reacts BO when he says “…my Muslim faith…”, then he immediately corrects it to “…my Christian faith…”. There are his early years, when his father was a Muslim, plus his association to the “dodgy racist pastor”, and other not-too-savoury characters, while at college….I cannot categorically state that BO is a Muslim, but he has not managed to convince me that he isn’t. Regarding your belief that all Muslims eat special food, pray 5 times a day, is not correct; in the ‘popular’ shopping district in the centre of São Paulo, dominated by Jews and Arab Muslim shop-owners, working side by side without any problem, I got to know a few quite well (exports to West Africa) and I don’t recall any of them restricting their diet or praying 5 times a day (they loved “feijoada”…black beans, rice, and pork in various forms)…while in West Africa I also met many Muslim businessmen, both African and Arab…they ate freely and definitely enjoyed their whisky…adherence to Islam is probably not followed too closely out of strict Muslim societies, like Saudi Arabia etc..
    Regarding Bush’s bow, take a another, closer look at the photo…Bush is bowing so that the king can drape a medal over his head….quite different to BO who lowered his head to the level of the king’s navel…
    Some members of the PT, 3 days ago, thought they might get some power back when the President of the Senate, Renan Calheiros was removed by an injunction given by one of the Supreme Court judges, and next in line was a PT senator….But one day later (yesterday), the SC reversed their decision and put him back in the Presidency (which will end in a couple of months, anyway).

    @Kanye
    why d'you think you can judge me ? silly remark, and just fyi, I am definitely not one of your multi-persona trolls...wake up !

    Dec 08th, 2016 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    Not sure I seriously want to debate whether Obama is a Muslim, it just seems like a conspiracy theory to me. Do you also think he was born in Kenya?

    I watched a couple of minutes of the video, and it sounds like he's trying to impress Muslims, not that he is one.

    But I don't know how he could ever convince you of that, as you must believe he has been lying to everyone for years (decades?) about his faith, going to church just to pretend to be Christian? Talking about his beliefs and carrying a bible around with him just to fool people? So what could he do or say now that would convince you he's not lying?

    About Brazil, I saw the latest article saying he could keep his job. I assume you're pleased since it will make it easier for Temer to pass his reforms, but are you worried about the precedent of him ignoring the judges decision? Isn't the SC supposed to be a counter to stop the politicians becoming too powerful?

    @ Kanye
    No way; I think Chronic would be quite easy to fake, but I strongly doubt he's capable of pretending to be anyone else.

    Dec 08th, 2016 - 11:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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