Bolivia expands legal coca crop area by 12.000 hectares

HughJuanCoeurs

Probably meant Cocoa rather than Coca...

Mar 09th, 2017 - 09:47 pm - Link - 0

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Jack Bauer

The Bolivians are going to have to chew a lot of leaves to take care of the extra production...

Mar 10th, 2017 - 06:36 pm - Link - 0

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DemonTree

This will probably be good for Bolivia, who will get richer farmers and more taxes, and bad for all Bolivia's neighbours, who will get more crime and a bigger drug problem...

This does make me curious though. If chewing coca leaves is supposed to be comparable to just drinking a lot of coffee, what happens if you inject caffeine straight into your veins?

Mar 10th, 2017 - 06:57 pm - Link - 0

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Jack Bauer

@DT
Chewing coca leaves, or drinking coca tea, at high altitudes, like the indigenous population in Bolivia does (to offset the discomfort of high altitude), is quite different to selling it in the form of cocaine paste, to its neighbours - as is the obvious intention. It's not as if there aren't enough coca plants in Bolivia to supply their internal demand.
Years ago I brought back a sachet of coca tea from Bolivia (placed on my pillow in the hotel, instead of the customary chocolate), and it wasn't particularly inspiring....despite usually being 'decocainized', it is said to sometimes have unpleasant side-effects.
Drinking a lot of coffee is one thing, drinking too much, another, and the latter , would probably affect your stomach and give you insomnia....
As to injecting caffeine straight into your veins, interesting question but I couldn't tell you... anyway, I prefer to appreciate it in an 'Nespresso'...what else ?

Mar 11th, 2017 - 06:56 pm - Link - 0

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DemonTree

The article certainly implies the increase is way more than they need for internal use. It's a great pity that cocaine isn't more like caffeine; then they could sell the leaves legally and there would be a hell of a lot less crime in Latin America.

Also I wonder if you broke the law by bringing that tea back to Brazil? Was it definitely the decocainised version?

Drug laws make no sense anyway. Alcohol is one of the more harmful drugs and tobacco kills 6m people per year according to the WHO. In the UK it's completely legal to grow opium poppies (I've done it), but you can go to jail for up to 7 years for possessing coca leaf. I bet if chewing coca leaves was traditional in Europe instead of South America they'd be legal around the world.

I found an account of a journalist who tried smoking coffee; apparently the effects were remarkably unpleasant. That's probably the closest we are going to get. Think I will stick to tea, caffeine doesn't agree with me anyway.

Mar 11th, 2017 - 10:05 pm - Link - 0

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Jack Bauer

@DT
Morales probably sees it as a way to keep people 'employed' in a failing economy, and obviously couldn't care two hoots about the consequences. Maybe it's time to impose a few economic sanctions to force him to back down.
I probably did break the law, but back then drugs were no where near the problem they are today. Anyway, Customs was not a problem. Decocainized ? don't know, but the chamber maid said it was 'weak', whatever that meant to her...I just found it quite unpleasant.
On principle, I'm against drugs, but since they exist, and aren't gonna be eliminated any time soon, I think legalizing them would at least take them out of the hands of organized crime. I agree that most laws which address the drug issue, are not particularly rational...dealers should be treated as murderers , and users that become addicted should face mandatory rehabilitation. But until governments are willing to impose harsher measures, and enforce them, the problem will just keep on growing.

DT, regarding the subject titled “Bolivian President rushed to Cuba...”, comments were closed right after your last post...I'll reply here if you give open up space for me......

Mar 13th, 2017 - 07:09 pm - Link - 0

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DemonTree

@JB
What, was it the flavour or the effects you didn't like? When I've tried coffee I've never found it very pleasant, perhaps coca leaf is also an acquired taste?

Personally I don't think the drug laws need to be stricter, as such. Clearly what we are doing now is not working; it would be better to try treating addiction as a medical issue. Sending addicts to jail just fills up jails, and IMO it would be better to supply them legally if necessary (but not let them take drugs any away to sell), as removing the market would get rid of most of the dealers. Less harmful drugs could just be legalised with restrictions as we have for alcohol and tobacco.

For most drugs it would be better if they had never been discovered, but unfortunately there is no way of putting that genie back in the bottle.

These comments closing is a pain, especially when I was on holiday and couldn't post, but you can reply now. :)

Mar 13th, 2017 - 11:22 pm - Link - 0

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Jack Bauer

@DT
Don’t think the ‘Bolsa Familia’ has any effect on school attendance, as no counterpart is demanded…if they weren’t so ignorant they’d realize they’d be far better off if the govt were serious and if they had a job…Since all BF recipients are under the ‘poverty-line’ (which the PT lowered or raised, depending on their political message : “Oh, look at how many people have ascended to a higher social level”, or, “look at how many people are in poverty” ; either way, never the full truth.
Those pushing the “Foro de SP” count on the population’s ignorance to sell their ‘socialist’ dream…their only intention is to make the population dependent on big government, then steal left, right and centre while they consolidate their grip on power and ‘pretend’ to help the lower classes.
Most successful VZ businessmen left years ago, when they saw the direction the country was going in ; I met several of them in Panama, in 2008, and they were unanimous in saying that to live there now, is impossible.
Populism elected Chavez, but once he’d consolidated power, he showed his true colours, while in Russia, communism was implemented without choice.
Lula failed miserably and is directly responsible for the mess in Brazil…those polls are misleading as they were conducted by the Federation of left-wing unions that support him, but the fact is they're just a gimmick so they can claim he’s a martyr when he’s convicted or thrown in jail.…anyway, under current law, no defendant can run for president. The case against Temer will probably drag on until his term ends, but if he’s impeached before then, new elections would be called, while the head of the Lower House sits in as interim-president.
=======================
The flavour was a bit sour, not very pleasant, but no effect other than that.
When you look at the amount of drug dealers in prison, you get an idea of the size of the problem in Brazil...harsher laws here, would do good. Addicts agree, but they need treatment.

Mar 14th, 2017 - 10:49 pm - Link - 0

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DemonTree

@JB
I though school attendance was required to receive the BF? Articles about it certainly mention it as one of the benefits. This study says it has improved school attendance and age-grade discrepancy, but made child labour worse (not sure why that would be?): http://www.ernestoamaral.com/docs/papers/JSSPI2014.pdf

And I doubt that all of the participants in the Foro de SP are only interested in stealing. Some people really believe that stuff. I would like to know whether Chavez, and Maduro now, believe all the things they say/said about foreign imperialists and the like, but sadly it's impossible to find out. I just hope VZ is able to get back to real democracy and prevent the collapse of the country. I'm kind of surprised it has survived this long tbh.

About Lula, are there other polls giving different results? I thought he was still pretty popular, and even if people do believe he was corrupt, they can see that pretty nearly every politician was involved, so who else are they going to vote for?

As for the drugs, the point of my suggestions is to drive dealers out of business by having most of the drugs supplied legally (either sold with restrictions for the less harmful ones, or given to addicts to be taken on the spot for things like heroin. Drug dealers already risk their lives every day due to gang wars etc, so I don't believe that harsher penalties would make much difference.

Mar 15th, 2017 - 08:02 pm - Link - 0

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Jack Bauer

@DT
In the 'old' days, before Lula got in, there were several ‘bolsas’, but you had to prove you were eligible to receive any ; most of them demanded some sort of counterpart. One was school attendance. Anyway, the ‘bolsa’ concept started over 20 years ago, in the State of SP, then FHC (president , 1995-2002) expanded it nationally. When Lula took over, he joined them and eliminated the requirement of counterparts, which meant most people started receiving handouts they hadn’t even requested…of course he became Mr.Popular !
Yr link states“The main hypotheses of this paper is that a child who lives in a household that receives the benefit has higher chances of being in school etc…”; it just says the kids of a family that receives the BF is more LIKELY to go to school…doesn’t mean they do, nor is it conditional to receiving the BF..
Regarding those involved in the “Foro de SP”, if they truly believe that is the way to go, you have to agree that they want , above all else, is power, and at the expense of the people (VZ is living proof) ; and to make such a proposition viable, they’ll take populism to an extreme seldom seen before (in order to attract people) ; which will only become possible by infiltrating government with your cronies, and stealing to arrange the funds….so yes, I firmly believe all supporters of such a proposition, if they are in a position to steal, that is exactly what they are doing.
There are no serious polls at the moment…too soon, and anyway, if serious, they wouldn’t consider Lula. He’s popular in the northeast, where he comes from, and where people are undoubtedly the worst informed in Brazil. Unless new faces appear- which I doubt - some of the present politicians will keep coming back, but mainly in places where the people aren’t too bright.
I agree, drugs should be legalized; as for dealers, put them away for good, because if not in drugs, they’ll resort to other crimes. Their creativity is unlimited.

Mar 15th, 2017 - 09:54 pm - Link - 0

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DemonTree

All the sources do say that children must attend school and receive vaccinations in order to receive the BF. And
you can't expect to get 100% attendance no matter what you do. If children are more likely to attend, that is still a benefit.

Temer is not planning to get rid of the Bolsa Familiar anyway, is he? It's a popular program and most people who have looked into it think it has done a lot to reduce poverty.

Why are people in the North-East so badly inforned? Bad education? I'm sure I read that Lula did not learn to read until he was 10 and he must have been educated there.

I guess something would have to be done about the current drug dealers; legalisation would only prevent new ones. It probably would be possible to reform some of the lower level ones, but not the kingpins. They should be locked up for good.

Mar 17th, 2017 - 12:42 am - Link - 0

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Jack Bauer

@DT
Don't know where you saw school attendance is mandatory to receive the BF, because I can tell you firsthand, it is not...I know a couple of families on it, and the recipients are quite candid about it, confirming that no counterpart exists, other than having a declared income of less than 'x'....
Temer has said he will maintain the programme - he even increased it's value soon after he took over - but he has insinuated he might - as a veiiled threat against Congress to approve his reforms. It hasn't reduced poverty - all it's done is guarantee some extra food on the table, provided they don't use it to buy 'cachaça'. What reduces poverty is education and jobs, not a programme that disincentivizes people to get off their ass and look for a job.
The North East has always been - and still is - the less industrialized region, the poorest , and has always depended on Federal help to survive..only just....as until very recently, most funds were diverted to the politicians' pockets ; the NE politicians are nearly all from oligarchic families, and again, until recently, ruled in their home states as if they were in feudal times. What I'm going say now should not be taken as a racist comment, but the 'different' culture up there, allied to a good dose of laziness, makes them a pretty backward bunch. As to Lula, he only 'just' learned how to read. He used to announce proudly, to the four winds, that he hated reading, and saw no point in studying, using himself as an example of a success story...and he left his home state - Pernambuco - when he was a young kid, and went with his family to Santos.
The reason why drugs and gangs proliferate, is because justice is lenient on them....they continue with their business, as usual, from their prison cells, and more likely than not, can 'arrange' an escape when it suits them, as most prison guards, poor themselves, are easily bribed. They need to be locked up for good, in solitary.

Mar 17th, 2017 - 07:05 pm - Link - 0

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DemonTree

@JB
It says school attendance is required everywhere I looked:

Wikipedia: “...if they have children, families must ensure that the children attend school and are vaccinated.”

FT: “To receive the monthly stipend, parents must bring children for regular medical check-ups and they need to show they are attending school.”

It's also in the study I linked to earlier.

Now, this being Brazil, there is surely a question of whether the conditions are being enforced. But it does appear that they exist.

And pretty much all the sources are very positive about it too, saying that it has reduced poverty, not alone but in addition to the boom Brazil was enjoying until recently. Also, it may not be the *best* way, but giving the poorest people money is certainly the simplest way to reduce poverty. The conditions on health and education are supposed to create a more long term improvement, but will only work if they are enforced and the health and education services are adequate.

I was curious, so I looked up how much money the BF pays. Wikipedia says the equivalent of US$13 per child per month. In the UK, we have child benefit, which pays £13.70 (currently US$17) per child per *week*, with extra for the eldest child. And this is completely uncontroversial.

About the NE states, I guess it's not surprising people would be backward if they live in feudal conditions and are barely or not at all educated. I always thought people who boast like that are covering up for their insecurity, but who knows. Also, you say it was like that 'until recently' so what has changed now?

As for Brazilian justice, it sounds like the problem is that it is ineffective, not that it is too lenient. No one is campaigning for prisoners to be able to run gangs from jail, or for them to have the right to escape when they please. What is the point of calling for harsher punishments when the existing ones aren't even being enforced?

Mar 18th, 2017 - 06:48 pm - Link - 0

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MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency

Bolivia expands legal coca crop area by 12.000 hectares

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