MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
General strike in Argentina; Macri hosts the World Economic Forum
Workers are committed to a general strike in recession-hit Argentina on Thursday, drawing complaints from conservative President Mauricio Macri as he prepares to host leaders and business people for an economic forum. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesFantastic idea. Go on strike and take the day off, it will do wonders for the economy, all union leaders are the same wherever you are. The workers lose a days pay at least and the union bosses lose nothing as the workers are paying for them.The unions and government should sit round a table and discuss their grievencies and be serious about it.
Apr 06th, 2017 - 10:34 am - Link - Report abuse +4Enrique and Think/voice
Apr 06th, 2017 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Let's have some of your timely comments.
How does the strike help the workers?
What do they say must be done?
When Macri is out of office, what is the plan?
How will the Peronists or the K supporters who aren't in prison, make the lives of the workers better, stimulate investment, make Arg industry more competitive, etc???
Told you so. A year ago.
Apr 07th, 2017 - 05:12 am - Link - Report abuse -3Here's Bloomberg:
Argentina Shuts Down as Macri Faces First General Strike
Argentina looked like a ghost country for the day, and hundreds of anti-riot police attacked people who cut some road accesses.
Don't miss the taped interview to a Macri in total denial, unable to answer even the most elementary questions during the interview, spouting falsehoods, cliches and vague promises while arguing the trouble is the work of “minorities,” and speaking with delight about the recent demonstration in his support.
“There is no plan B,” said Macri, playing the tough boy. “Here we are working,” said the president who has taken more vacation days than any predecessor in history.
An ummitigated disaster of a president.
Oh, and Kanye, suddenly you are asking questions? I thought you had everything figured out!
Enrique,
Apr 07th, 2017 - 06:01 am - Link - Report abuse +3Rhetorical questions, only.
““There is no plan B,” said Macri...”
Well, Enrique, what would you do differently??
Tell us how that would work??
See, I am asking questions, but you cannot answer.
This strike is just foo. How can you determine if people really wanted to go to strike if the union mafias restricted all public transportation and blocked all major highways?
Apr 07th, 2017 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Kanye, I'll tell you what will work. Send all those union leaders to jail. Evidence abounds. Nobody has the guts to treat them for what they really are: Mafia bosses.
Kanye, I bet you will get no answer from Enrique and the same from Think/Voice. I have asked many times on this forum “ still waiting for an answer. What can Argentina bring to the negociating table that the FALKLANDERS would consider?” The same can be said for “ what could Enrique suggest to bring Argentina onto the world stage ” Again no answer, because they do not one.
Apr 07th, 2017 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse +2I saw that one K politician posted an image of a policeman apparently attacking a protester with some comment about it being a police state under Macri...except the photo he used was an old one from when CFK was in power!
Apr 07th, 2017 - 05:46 pm - Link - Report abuse +4I think Macri should clip the wings of the unions. The primary aim of unions should be to protect their workers' interests not to attack government. How can shutting everything down on the day a group of potential investors visit ever protect their workers' interests?
In the UK, Maggie Thatcher changed the rules so that strikes were only legal if a majority of the workers voted for the strike. The leaders could no longer call a strike without this evidence of their member's support. Makes perfect sense - they can still go on strike if they want to but they can no longer be forced to strike by politically motivated leaders. This change had a huge beneficial effect on the economy.
Guys (and you know who you are, moderates politically,) here's a pic of the the heroes of Gauchito Drink and Kamerad/Komrade Rique..
Apr 08th, 2017 - 08:04 am - Link - Report abuse +1http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b521/imoyaro/fatkthugs_zpswk0fxdel.jpg?t=1491551745
Kamerad/Komrade Rique, this is what you truly represent... masked, armed, thugs. Clearly, you and your “Torturer's Tango Duo” partner need to have your heads stoved in. ;)
You are, of course, right. Think and EM have a slavish devotion to CFK not the people of Argentina. You have to wonder if they benefited personally from the corruption because their blindness to the reality makes no sense at all.
Apr 08th, 2017 - 11:57 am - Link - Report abuse +1@Tarquin - Zaphod
Apr 09th, 2017 - 06:47 am - Link - Report abuse -2Wow. The courage of these citizens is simply amazing. Their social recipes suprisingly simple. Just incarcerate union leaders and problems will go away. Sorry to rain on your parade, guys. These methods have already been tried. They even resorted to assassination of union leaders. Some times that can make people scared for some time, but if the original problems are not solved, eventually civil disobedience will come back.
ElaineB
Have you read at all the article above?
I don't think you have.
“...the economy remains bogged down, having shrunk 2.3% last year...”
Does it ring something?
Why are you coming back with your perpetual song about CFK even if the article above does not say anyting about her?
On another matter, I will warn you to stop posting unsupported personal attacks. You don't need to wonder whether I “benefited personally from the corruption.” It's your right to disagree with my opinions--another very different is to stray into the muddy waters of slander.
@Kanye
“...what would you do differently??”
It's not me who you need to ask. I'm not in charge of the Argentine government or its economy.
President Mauricio Macri has been given lots of warnings to stop doing what he is doing. He won't.
He is not making errors.
Macri is following a meticulous plan to concentrate the country's wealth in a few hands and the hell with the rest.
Of course, he'll end up going down in flames at some point, and leave the country to licks its wounds and try to restart again from the ruins.
“On another matter, I will warn you to stop posting unsupported personal attacks. You don't need to wonder whether I “benefited personally from the corruption.” It's your right to disagree with my opinions--another very different is to stray into the muddy waters of slander.”
Apr 10th, 2017 - 01:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Actually Kamerad/Komrade Rique, it's entirely legal to wonder about your motives. If you recall you accused me of supporting Pinochet's actions while you extolled Peron's. Naturally I pointed out both were a disgrace, whilst you kept praising Peron. Of course this opened the door for me to refer to you as a would be torturer, since Peron's actions vis a vis the Ramos Mejía Hospital were nothing if not despicable, and you certainly seem like the kind of individual who would torture trade unionists, teachers, and students if given a chance, to me. So you see, if you say you support something it is certainly reasonable for another to state that you do.
http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b521/imoyaro/KameradR_zps5h5sc4uu.jpg
@imoyaro
Apr 10th, 2017 - 05:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't try to elevate yourself at the level of another poster.
I warned a poster to stop personal attacks because the level of discussion warrants such request.
As for the little, ugly mutt who keeps squealing and yelping in the shadows, I just say, be quiet!
You are a monster.
Apr 10th, 2017 - 06:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Reekie,
Apr 10th, 2017 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Wow. The courage of these citizens is simply amazing. Their social recipes suprisingly simple. Just incarcerate union leaders and problems will go away. Sorry to rain on your parade, guys. These methods have already been tried. They even resorted to assassination of union leaders.”
I see what you've done here. You either didn't read, understand or willfully misinterpreted my post. Margaret Thatcher did not incarcerate, never mind assassinate, any union leaders! She changed the law so that a strike was only legal if it was voted for by the majority of workers. There are many things that Maggie did that I disagree with but this one made a lot of sense and had a very positive effect on the economy. I think it also helped the workers. Before, strikes were a nuisance and it would tend to turn people against the services involved and look for alternatives. Now, when there is a strike in the UK it tends to be supported by the public since they understand that the majority of workers really are sufficiently unhappy to make their point by striking. It is now a last resort, rather that a repeated feature (like in Argentina).
Are you really saying that it is unreasonable for the workers to decide whether they want to go on strike rather than being forced to by their leaders? It is called democracy. You are defending a system where the union leaders act like dictators over their workers.
“Some times that can make people scared for some time, but if the original problems are not solved, eventually civil disobedience will come back.”
Maybe so, but that is a straw man argument since I never suggested incarceration or assassination - that was all you.
Why can't you respond to the argument being made rather than inventing a straw man argument?
@Zahod
Apr 10th, 2017 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“There are many things that Maggie did that I disagree with but this one...had a very positive effect on the economy...helped the workers.”
Oh...yes! I do understand your only motivation here is democracy. You are, in fact, a staunch supporter of workers' rights.
“...the union leaders act like dictators over their workers.”
Yes indeed. You love the workers and you are just against those little dictators who are forcing them to strike against their will. In fact, it is them who are creating misery. The government, which yesterday sent anti-riot police against non-striking teachers attempting dialogue, is in it for nothing.
@EM
Apr 11th, 2017 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse +1Zaphod didn't suggest jailing the union leaders, that was TF. You can support changing the rules on strikes without being against workers' rights.
Do you really think it is unreasonable to require unions to hold a vote of their members being going on strike? Or to prevent strikers blocking other people in unrelated jobs from going to work?
Reekie,
Apr 11th, 2017 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse +1“ Oh...yes! I do understand your only motivation here is democracy. You are, in fact, a staunch supporter of workers' rights.”
Absolutely. As a worker myself, I have found my rights to be very valuable. I once threatened legal action against a former employer. They settled out of court and I received what was due to me. I obviously knew my rights better than they did and both my and their lawyers agreed with me. So, yes, I am a staunch supporter of worker's rights.
“Yes indeed. You love the workers and you are just against those little dictators who are forcing them to strike against their will. In fact, it is them who are creating misery.“
More sarcasm? Yes, you've stated my view very clearly there.
I have actually been a member of unions in the past because I thought that it helped to have someone on my side. However, I let the membership of the last union I was in lapse because at the point I needed their help they actually proved to be very slow and unhelpful so I decided it was better to save my union fees and lawyer up should I ever need to. So far, this has been much more cost effective! So, I'm not anti-union but in my experience they haven't been of much help to me.
”The government, which yesterday sent anti-riot police against non-striking teachers attempting dialogue, is in it for nothing.”
This doesn't make sense. Can you provide some facts here?
Shall we just be clear on some roles here?
- The teacher's job is to teach
- The union's job is to protect the interests of their members
- The government's job is to manage the economy and create and enforce the law of the land
I am happy with all of the above. However,
- It is not the job of unions to force their worker's to strike for political reasons.
- It is not the job of government to attack anyone who isn't breaking the law.
Does that help?
@Enrique, this is not about Vandor and Rucci anymore. This is about obscure participation in business and blackmailing from traditional union leaders. I suppose you are aware that those activities exists, that serveral judges have been their accomplices, that many enterpreneurs do indeed feed this vicious cycle.
Apr 11th, 2017 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +1We have to stop accepting being hostage of corruption.
@Zaphod
Apr 11th, 2017 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“It is not the job of unions to force their worker's to strike for political reasons.”
Having the experience you claim you have, you should know that, whatever system is used to declare a strike, no leader can force it for long if the affiliates do not want to do it.
And so, in spite of your abundant claims of “I am a worker myself,” come up with an argument for union policy changes in the middle of a conflict such as that of the teachers right now it's absolutely disingenuous and irrelevant at this point. The teachers and the government are engaged in a key battle right now that will have repercussions for all other workers--they need to fight the fight now and later, if they wish, they could discuss the mechanisms they have to declare a strike.
Reekie,
Apr 12th, 2017 - 05:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Having the experience you claim you have, you should know that, whatever system is used to declare a strike, no leader can force it for long if the affiliates do not want to do it.”
Indeed. Is this why the national strike was for just the one day?
“And so, in spite of your abundant claims of “I am a worker myself,””
Abundant? I have made that claim only the once.
“... come up with an argument for union policy changes in the middle of a conflict such as that of the teachers right now it's absolutely disingenuous and irrelevant at this point.”
Why can't good suggestions be made at any time? Is this some sort of rule in Reekieland?
“The teachers and the government are engaged in a key battle right now that will have repercussions for all other workers--they need to fight the fight now and later, if they wish, they could discuss the mechanisms they have to declare a strike.”
Cast your mind back to the UK miner's strike in the 1980s. This was a pivotal moment in UK labour laws. Arthur Scargill, the head of the miner's union, was a sworn enemy of Maggie Thatcher so it wasn't too difficult to get him worked up to pull out his workers on strike. Guess what happened? Maggie did this when coal stocks at the power stations were at record highs and in the spring. So Arthur took the bait at a time when his product wasn't really needed. There was a prolonged, divisive strike that had no real effect on the economy since the supply of coal was high and the demand was low through the summer. Add in the facts that there were other sources of energy such as oil, gas and nuclear and there had been no national ballot so there was a lack of support from all miners and other unions and the strike was ultimately doomed to fail. The strike continued through the next winter but by the following spring it had been defeated.
Just a thought, what if Macri is doing a similar thing with the teachers? How dependent is the economy on teachers? Probably less than energy providers.
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