MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Theresa May campaigning after working-class voters “abandoned by Labour”
Conservative PM Theresa May will claim Labour has “deserted” working-class voters as she campaigns in the north east of England on Friday. She will pledge to campaign “in all corners” of the UK to reach those who have been “abandoned by Labour”. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesHmmm. Labour tries to create new policies to help the working class, Tories accuse them of abandoning the working class. Sounds about right. It seems no one votes based on policies these days, instead they vote for whoever tells them what they want to hear, however divorced from reality that may be.
May 12th, 2017 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0None are really that good,
May 13th, 2017 - 10:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0perhaps a completely different way to run this country is needed,
but what, is anyone's guess.
@ DT
May 13th, 2017 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +1It is so depressing that our campaigning has dropped to such a low level. Brexit divided the country into teams and now we see the same nonsense in GE campaigning. I have friends across the political spectrum but have never seen such partisanship. It really scrapes the barrel when FB derogatory posts about TM's shoes are getting thousands of likes as if that defines her as a politician. “Yeah, she is a devil because she has many pairs of shoes” and “Corbin deliberately ran over the foot of a reporter”. None of it focuses on the actual policies of the candidates. Are the majority really that dumb?
Yes, and it's largely the Remoaners who are doing most of the whingeing and division. If they don't like what's happening they can depart and live in the EU Superstate they seem to love. That would solve the housing crisis quite neatly. And just imagine JC directing the armed forces and Dianne Abbot as Chancellor! LOL! And as for Facebook, ignore it, you don't need it to live your life, it's for dumbclucks.
May 13th, 2017 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse +1@EB
May 13th, 2017 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah that sucks. I can only assume the media's obsession with her shoes is deliberate, in order to distract us from the important issues like her crappy performance as PM.
I don't know if the majority are dumb, I think they have become cynical through many years of broken promises and policies which only help the rich, and so they have given up hoping and just vote based on personality or don't vote at all. Of course as long as they do that nothing will change.
@TV
What I mostly see is leavers acting paranoid and accusing anyone who disagrees with them of fear-mongering. Perhaps this is finally improving now May has invoked Art 50 though. Still it is certainly too much to hope that you will stop blaming the remainers for your problems and take responsibility for your decision and its consequences any time soon.
It is certainly tempting to leave the country, and it would be the perfect poetic justice if the mostly young, well educated Remain voters left the Brexiters to sort out their own mess. But I like Britain, nowhere else would feel like home. It's my country as much as yours.
@DT
May 13th, 2017 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hmmm, I don't agree. I think social media has made people lazy and sheep-like. They see something in print somewhere and never bother to check the source or accuracy as long as they agree with the sentiment. It's the old joke, “I know it's true because I read it somewhere.......in something I wrote”.
I also think the 'hopeless' and negative is exactly what the 24 hour news entertainment wants from the GP. If we were positive and content we wouldn't need them as much. I will give an example. I have been in Chile for some time now and the country is experiencing a lot of earth tremors and a few moderate to strong earthquakes. A couple of weeks back there was a fairly strong one off the coast of Valparaiso that prompted an evacuation and tsunami scare, for about an hour before everyone was sent home again. There was some minor property damage and no fatalities but there was nothing much else happening in the news so it was still being reported days later as if it was a major disaster. The news channels were just filling hours. And the consequences of the constant negative reporting was that people became increasingly worried and negative. Hotels in the Valpo area started to get more and more cancellations as people were convinced it was not safe. The reality was that it was perfectly safe....I travelled to the coast to spend time with friends close to the epicentre and at no time felt unsafe. See how easily people are manipulated into being more fearful and negative than they need to be? I see the media doing exactly the same across the world.
As for social media - I think in time people will wake up to the fact that there is mass manipulation going on.
My daughter is in Santiago this evening. Hoping she keeps safe.
May 13th, 2017 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Agree about Theresa, but a lot of dubious decisions, Boris, grammars, hunting! Makes you wonder? But...Jeremy, really!?
@TV
May 13th, 2017 - 08:10 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Why wouldn't she be safe? The epicentre seems to be offshore at Valpo and most buildings in Santiago are built to withstand all but the most extreme earthquakes.
I wouldn't mind some real debate on policies instead of the nonsense, personal dirt-digging and childish 'them or us'.
@EB
May 13th, 2017 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah, you have a point about the media. But I don't think social media has made people more lazy. Rather, they have always been lazy but in the past it was easier to tell unreliable sources from reliable ones. With social media anyone can invent 'news' and make it look official in order to make money or push an agenda, it's just another con trick.
We could debate the policies here. :-) What do you think about Corbyn's plans on “nationalizing railways, renewing Trident weapons, abolishing university tuition fees and scrapping the public sector pay cap”?
I'd like to know the details on renationalising the railways. I don't remember BR but I have heard bad things, however, the East Coast franchise was publically owned for a while and was pretty good. I think bringing the franchises back into public ownership as they expire would be reasonable, but they should not be directly run by the government. As for tuition fees, IMO they are much to high, but the bigger question is how we should be training people. Don't we currently need more tradesmen rather than graduates? Sending more people to university doesn't create more graduate jobs, we need a strategy that prepares people for the jobs available.
DT
May 13th, 2017 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The time for finger-pointing and threats is over.
Agree or not, the path was chosen by the majority, according to a process both camps agreed to.
It was a legal and binding result.
It is time now to work as a team to make the best of the chosen path, and not a time to dig in One's heels, and sabotage the effort by acting in bad faith, merely to 'vindicate' an I told you so.
EB
I have friends traveling through Chile just now - they are not so worried.
However, there is some truth to what you say about the deliberate fear-mongering.
“We have nothing to fear, but fear itself”
There's an article in the Torygraph alleging that the Labour manifesto was written almost wholly by the union's. If it could be afforded a lot of it would be great. However with a useless leader in the thrall of the Union barons folk won't vote for it. Collectively the public isn't stupid.
May 13th, 2017 - 10:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Kanye
May 14th, 2017 - 09:30 am - Link - Report abuse -2I disagree. There is never a good time for threats, and it was foolish of people like Obama to say things that came across that way.
It actually wasn't a legal and binding result, but I said at the time we WOULD leave, and so did EB, think. It was the Brexiters who claimed the government would find a way out of it, and they are still paranoid.
Who is trying to 'sabotage the effort by acting in bad faith' in your opinion? I don't see anyone acting in bad faith, but I also don't see any prospect of working as a team because no one is willing to listen and compromise. I don't think you understand that I really believe the UK was better off in the EU. I didn't vote Remain because I love the EU but because I thought that was best for my country.
If I really wanted to be able to say 'I told you so', I would simply do and say nothing, because I truly believe that the way things are going it will be disastrous for Britain.
I really hope I am proved wrong, but that looks increasingly unlikely.
@TV
So you are more interested in who wrote the manifesto than what is in it? Personally I wouldn't trust the Torygraph on this but the policies are the same either way. And renationalising the railways does not have to cost anything if you simply wait for the franchises to expire. What do you think of that plan?
And I don't think the public in the UK are any stupider than those in Argentina or Venezuela, but they can all be persuaded to vote for incompetent leaders and bad policies sometimes.
Snowflake, if you were there in the awful 70s you would understand my concern about the union's running Britain again. As for nationalised railways, the roads are nationalised why not the railways? Thatcher's poodle Cecil made a dog's breakfast of privatisation, it's a mess. Watch this space...
May 14th, 2017 - 10:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ DT Nationalising should be labelled 'paid for by the tax-payers'. It is a huge burden and I would rather my taxes went on the old, young and vulnerable. I actually think government is more effective when regulating private firms. Remember the boom in private care homes? Most of the state care homes had to close because they didn't/couldn't meet the high standards they imposed on private homes.
May 14th, 2017 - 02:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nuclear and anti-nuclear weapons are incredibly expensive but a necessary evil. They are ultimately cheaper than a war but you have to look beyond the emotional argument. The UK is a big arms manufacturer and it contributes hugely to our economy. So there is the conflict. We want the money from this trade to fund more social policies.
Abolishing tuition fees is a madness we cannot afford. It would be a wonderful world if we could have everything we want and not have to pay most of our wages in taxes to pay for it. Being realistic I support tuition fees as reasonable for two reasons. 1) Most students get a good a full education for free until the age of 18. That prepares people for work. If they want to extend their education they should be prepared to invest in their own futures because they will ultimately benefit; be it through personal intellectual enrichment or better paid employment. 2) The students from the poorest households do not pay tuition fees. There is already a safety net in place to ensure university education is not only for the people who can afford it. I would like to see more private firms picking up the cost of degrees that benefit their industry or profession.
Public sector pay has to be controlled as it is paid for by all of us. Can you imagine if there were no restraints? It would be like writing a blank cheque out of your bank account every month. Contrary to the media forever making us believe state-paid workers are all poor and desperate the truth is far from bleak.
The modern Labour party is run by and for the benefit of the Guardianistas who live in the Islington bubble. They couldn't care less about the white working class who live in the north-east of England. Lady Nugee and the rest of the Labour shadow cabinet regard the white working class with undisguised contempt yet still take their votes for granted every election like they are the electoral equivalent of cannon fodder. They have sown the wind and - on 8th June - they will reap the whirlwind.
May 14th, 2017 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Socialists don't respond to such arguments. Before 1973 councils were staffed by clerks on lowish pay with excellent pensions. Then, things went barmy with layers and layers of mismanagement earning eye watering sums.
May 14th, 2017 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Too much money being spent on useless degrees.
The dumbest mindset is to assume all Socialists are the same. Or that all Conservative or Liberals or whomever are all the same. It is lazy thinking.
May 14th, 2017 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse +1@Stoker
May 14th, 2017 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's funny you should say that. The unions were created by and for the working class, and since Thatcher neutered them the working class have unsurprisingly had less and less money and political power. But when Labour try and create policies to help the working class, they are accused of pandering to the unions. Labour was only able to get elected in my lifetime by abandoning their base and becoming a 'Tory Lite' party. So don't blame the residents of Islington, blame voters like The Voice who won't support the working class.
@EB
The railways are currenttly making a profit for private investors as well as the tax payers of other countries such as France. We wouldn't need to spend any more on them than we currently are, and I can't help noticing that most other countries in Europe have better and cheaper public transport than us. If we had a publically owned company running them like East Coast it would not cost the tax payer, so what is your objection? Do you think roads should be privatised too? They are not for the old, young and vulnerable, in fact all those groups are more likely to use railways.
We used to be able to afford tuition fees, in the supposedly terrible 70s, so what happened? Aren't we richer now? If it costs too much then send fewer people, it is not necessary to have a degree to do most jobs, it just becomes a very expensive and time wasting hoop to jump through. It's a paradox that the more people have degrees, the more necessary it is to have one and at the same time it is less useful.
As for public sector pay, I think if you don't reward people then you don't get good work. This is widely recognised in the private sector, and when setting tax levels, yet people think it doesn't apply to public sector workers? I can assure you people's motivation is the same no matter who employs them.
Pot , kettle - “I think social media has made people lazy and sheep-like. They see something in print somewhere and never bother to check the source or accuracy as long as they agree with the sentiment. It's the old joke, “I know it's true because I read it somewhere.......in something I wrote”. ”
May 14th, 2017 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse +2And, everyone who voted for Brexit is dumb.... Pot, kettle....
I have asked various people who voted for Brexit to explain their reasons. A few had good ones, but many had based their reasoning on lies and nonsense, or simply repeated vague platitudes and very evidently did not understand the issues involved. That is the experience I base my opinion on and therefore it is not a positive one.
May 14th, 2017 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I daresay plenty of people voted to remain for equally bad reasons, but since remain lost it is irrelevant.
It's pretty obvious that the really left and the Union Barons are now running Labour whilst decent Labour politicians like Ben Bradshaw and Hillary Benn look on in horror. Jeremy is proving how dense he is and Labour is now in meltdown. I would expect an SDP type party to emerge after the election. All this doesn't serve the working man many of whom are now self employed and leaves the unwilling zero hours workers up the creek. Theresa is making the most of this. It will be interesting to see what she tries to do with her increased majority. The cynics expect her to make things worse for the lower paid. I believe she will try to make things better because she is the Ronseal PM.
May 14th, 2017 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse +1So? The unions are supposed to represent the 'working man', and the unions created Labour to represent the ordinary people in parliament. If these people don't represent themselves then no one else is going to do it, certainly not the Tories who exist to help people who are already well off.
May 14th, 2017 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Corbyn has promised to ban zero hours contracts but May certainly hasn't, so don't cry crocodile tears about those poor workers. The Tories could have fixed this anytime in the last 6 years but didn't.
As for May, how many times did she promise there would not be an election? One of the very few definite things she said and she has already broken it. She also failed to keep the Tories' promise on immigration as Home Secretary, and I am not expecting that to change. She is more of a pound shop PM - offers little and delivers less - which seems quite appropriate given they are the only thing growing on the high street.
Holding the election was necessary to hold back the tide of Remoaners, Naysayers, and anti Democrats fixated on sabotaging the will of the people. Now they have got what they asked for, a Tory government with a huge majority. She didn't envisage doing it and said so many times. She underestimated the usual suspects who are now going to reap what they sowed.
May 15th, 2017 - 07:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0As for immigration, membership of the EU prevented cutting back half of it and the Tories have been slowly closing loopholes and dodges.
The reason things aren't going well on the high street is down to the growth in internet shopping not government policies as you are well aware. You should consider getting a job at the Ministry of fake news!
Lots of people like their zero hours contracts. Offers a more flexible lifestyle. Watch this space...
Margaret Thatcher did not “neuter” the unions - she just made it harder for nutters like Scargill to force workers to go out on strike against their will. The modern Labour party are totally removed from their traditional white, working class base. My brother works at the Nissan car factory near Sunderland. As one of his colleagues said to me “If I were a black lesbian the Labour party would be interested in me. The Labour party stopped caring about straight, white working men like me years ago”.
May 15th, 2017 - 09:28 am - Link - Report abuse +1The will of the people ?
May 15th, 2017 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Total electorate 46,000,000
Voted exit 17,410,742
This gives a percentage vote of 37.44% for Brexit.
Yes, I know that people who did not vote deserve the result. BUT you can hardly call it the will of the people !
Here is an interesting look at the vote.
https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/brexit-vote-explained-poverty-low-skills-and-lack-opportunities?gclid=CKOimtXX8dMCFWK17QodgbsAWw
Elaine
You say that public pay has to be funded by all of us. Conversely Private pay levels have to be funded by public servants also. Supposedly prices have to be kept down by companies as they compete. Tell that to the utility, rail and fuel companies.
In my experience in the Civil Service, I saw my salary continually falling year after year in comparison with outside business. Every government would hold back our pay as an example to private business. The theory was that they would keep a tight grip on pay. Did they? Of course not !
I can remember being on a computer course at Southend learning the intricacies of computerised stock control methods in manufacturing of computers and the problems of inter EU company transfers. I also had to check the company's VAT system against computerised records and detect any flaws in recording same.
I had also British Aerospace at Prestwick for Customs control of manufacturing the Jetstream aircraft and also a General Electric aero engine repair facility.
All fairly complex and responsible jobs with tens of millions of tax involved that I had to verify and take the can back if any errors went through.
For all that responsibility, I discovered that when looking in a jobs vacant office in Southend,I was being paid less than the going rate for an 18 year old girl receptionist
Several of my younger colleagues left the dept. for outside jobs and had 300% increases in their salaries with fringe benefits, such as zero rate mortgages and company cars.
It belies well paid public servants except MP's !
@TV
May 15th, 2017 - 01:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you disagree with your beloved May about one single thing? It is pointless talking to you if you have no opinions of your own but just rant about imaginary anti democrats (or do you mean the Republicans? ;-) )
And immigration from outside the EU was bigger than from inside; even if there had been zero from the EU May would have failed her target by several times, and I fully expect this to continue after we leave the EU.
@Stoker
I imagine that the unions did indeed have too much power in the 70s, but that doesn't mean they don't have too little now. There has to be a balance.
The fact is Labour did not get elected for many years until they adopted a lot of Thatcher's economic platform, but if you take away Labour's economic policies, all you are left with is the black lesbians. Now we see that Corbyn wants to make changes that could actually help the 'white, working class base', and again he is considered unelectable. Voters are willing to support minorities because it is cheap and mostly demands only words. But changing things for the whole working class would require money and no one is willing to pay more taxes, so Labour were only electable when they did not try.
@Clyde15
Interesting research.
My experience of friends and family in the public sector agrees with what you said, and these days they don't even get good benefits to make up for the poor salary.
DT Can't you read either? Look back on this thread. You seem to specialise in fake news, and attributing fake views to me and others. It's pointless trying to debate anything with someone with such poor comprehension skills. Unless it's because you have no logical arguments, I must admit I haven't noticed any?
May 15th, 2017 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse +1The joke about Theresa's Sonning is that they have a working men's club but their definition of a working man is Judge, Airline Pilot or George Clooney. In nearby Reading there are three Pound Shops and at least 600 restaurants, with new ones opening at the rate of five a week!
@TV
May 15th, 2017 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, let's look back on this thread. Above you said:
“All this doesn't serve the working man many of whom are now self employed and leaves the unwilling zero hours workers up the creek.”
But when I (logically!) pointed out that the Tories had done nothing for the unwilling zero hours workers in the last 6 years you immediately changed your mind:
“Lots of people like their zero hours contracts. Offers a more flexible lifestyle.”
I think this speaks for itself - as I said, it is pointless to talk to someone who has no consistent views and evidently believes the Tories can do no wrong.
As for fake news, was I wrong about immigration? Or any other facts I mentioned? Opinions are not news of any kind, real or fake, and the fact you dislike what I am saying does not make it untrue.
There is criticism of the Tories in my posts but it's obviously not visible from within your socialist Remoaners universe. Or, you refuse to acknowledge it. Or, you steadfastly oppose any logical independent thought. I suppose that's why you end up on a desk in a call centre?
May 15th, 2017 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Corbyn is an IRA supporting Marxist traitor. The very definition of who Margaret Thatcher referred to as “the enemy within”. Utterly divorced from reality and therefore un-electable. Never thought I would live to see somebody less electable than Michael Foot - then along came Jeremy.
May 15th, 2017 - 03:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Regarding support for Brexit
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/05/12/forget-52-rise-re-leavers-mean-pro-brexit-electora/
@TV
May 15th, 2017 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There certainly is criticism of the Tories in your posts, but every time I point it out you change your mind (see above for the latest example). Why don't you tell me some of their policies you disagree with; if you do that I will acknowledge that you do have your own opinions.
By the way, I'm not a socialist, not a habitual Labour voter and I don't support Corbyn. I haven't even decided who to vote for in the election so you *could* try and persuade me. ;-)
@Stoker
Shrug. You can re-elect the Tories but don't expect anything to change if you do.
Sure Corbyn is unelectable but he was chosen by another group of voters who feel ignored by the mainstream parties. If the 'white working class' want Labour to represent them they need to get involved in the party and make it happen themselves. But don't expect it to be easy as politicians of all parties mostly serve those with money.
Well, lots of people don't like zero hours but others, like some musicians, love them. But it's all evil according to JC and Co.
May 15th, 2017 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Latest from the Torygraph .. Revealed: How the Tories are surging in popularity in Labour heartlands
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/15/poll-shows-surge-tory-support-labour-heartlands-ukip-voters/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_androidshare_null
There is no doubt that the Labour party has been hijacked by Momentum and the rest of the SJWs who voted in Jeremy as leader. Until control of the Labour party is back in the hands of sensible, electable people they are finished. I was a Labour supporter myself in my youth. I stopped after John Smith died. In 1994 I joined the Referendum party and was a member until it was disbanded in 1997. Since then I have always voted UKIP. At the moment I do not feel I have anywhere to go but Conservative. No change is better than a change for the worse.
May 15th, 2017 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@TV
May 15th, 2017 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So what if anything do you think should be done about zero hours contracts? You said yourself that many people are on them unwillingly and have been left up the creek.
And is this supposed to be a policy you disagree with the Tories on? Because you haven't actually said so. Surely you can come up with just one example to convince me you have a mind of your own? No?
@Stoker
What is a SJW? If they voted in Corbyn I guess it is someone who believes in renationalising the railways, banning zero hours contracts and increasing pay for nurses, teachers and policemen?
Anyway, I am sure I disagree with you about nearly everything, but I too don't see any party that really represents me. Perhaps we would be better off with proportional representation as that would enable more parties to elect MPs and therefore give us more choice. UKIP for example would have won 83 seats in the last election if we had PR.
It's a free country, if people don't want to go on zero hours they shouldn't sign up to them. I believe in freedom of choice. I don't have to convince you of anything at all either. I believe in me us and we, believing in 'them' is the road to penury. Take some responsibility. It's a thing you learn when you get chucked out of your job. You learn to be independent and take responsibility.
May 15th, 2017 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We had a vote on the voting system, change was rejected. Perhaps we should have another vote and a say in the future of the Lord's. But, not whilst disentanglement from the EU is going on..
PR is a dead duck. We had the referendum on it and it was rejected. The way MPs are selected by constituencies is where reform is needed. Out of 650 MPs only 110 supported leaving the EU. If they represented the will of the people it should have been 338 in favour of leave.
May 15th, 2017 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0People employed by the state are already feather bedded. Why should their wages be increased? I haven't had a pay rise since 2011 and mine and my colleagues taxes pay their wages.
@TV
May 16th, 2017 - 07:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Certainly you don't have to convince me of anything, feel free to keep proving me right...
You were the one who said some people were on zero hours contracts unwillingly, which implies they do not have freedom of choice. And the truth is that people can only take what jobs are available, and employers always have more power than an individual worker. That is why workers formed unions in the first place and why we have our elected government regulate what workers can be asked to do.
@Stoker
The referendum was on AV, not PR! I hope you at least understood what you were voting on at the time?
And if you really haven't had a pay rise since 2011 you need to follow The Voice's advice and get a better job. If you think the public sector sector pays so well then go work for it.
As for MPs, the 'problem' is that they are generally educated and capable people who understand the EU, and very few of those voted to leave.
Politicians like the EU because it is another gravy train they can jump on when their domestic political career is over. Neil Kinnock, Glenys Kinnock, Peter Mandelson, Leon Brittan, etc, etc, etc all on huge salaries and gold-plated pensions at our expense. Even a poorly educated idiot like me can understand that ;-D
May 16th, 2017 - 07:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0DT, thank you for the lesson, but I don't need it. Tebbit said it “on yer bike”. I suggest you take lessons in realism, with a massive Tory majority all socialist remoaners are going to need to become more realistic. You haven't proved a single thing so far other than you need to educate yourself.
May 16th, 2017 - 07:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Grrrrate..she's screwed the boomers!
May 18th, 2017 - 03:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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