MercoPress, en Español

Montevideo, July 17th 2019 - 02:33 UTC

 

 

Ex Brazilian president assets and bank accounts frozen

Thursday, July 20th 2017 - 07:18 UTC
Full article 45 comments

The Brazilian central bank has frozen four bank accounts belonging to ex-President Lula da Silva due to his recent conviction on corruption charges, the federal judge who heard his case said on Wednesday. Read full article

Comments

Disclaimer & comment rules
  • EscoSesDoidao

    The assets they have frozen/seized are nothing really. I'll bet the old crook has a 100 times that value. These are only the things under his own name.

    Jul 20th, 2017 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    @EscoSesDoidao

    REF: “The assets they have frozen/seized are nothing really”: Of Course; you are ABSOLUTELY right!

    Out of [+/-] Two Thousand Crooks; he is just ONE. They ALL must have been stealing for more than twenty or so years!!! So all of them together; they MUST have stolen MULTI-Billions [if not Trillions] throughout their “career”. THIS is the ONLY reason; why Brazil will forever remain as an Under-Developed Country.

    One can assume; that they'll NEVER ever stop stealing; since they are well protected by the same laws which these same crooks [lawmakers] themselves have made!

    The ONLY problem, is that due to the virtues of these laws; ALL of them will soon be enjoying 100% FREEDOM; because of the “Absence of Concrete-Evidences” [considering that all of their illicit earnings were transacted in TOTAL secrecy - without leaving ANY trace of the proofs].

    Secondly, due to the “Special Privileges” which they enjoy; they will also remain “untouchable” by the laws.

    Jul 20th, 2017 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Jack Bauer

    So far only US$ 200.000,00 in 4 banks acounts, 3 apartments and one plot of land, have been blocked....the Attorney Genera'ls office is now going after another US$ 3 million, in other known investments....despite the obvious question “where did so much money come from ?”, it's still just the tip of the iceberg...

    Jul 21st, 2017 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    Although it's just a TIP of a HUGE iceberg; ultimately, he and the rest of the crooks will be in business as “NORMAL”:
    https://www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Falta-o-Aecio-e-o-Michel-Temer.jpg

    Jul 22nd, 2017 - 09:41 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Juanma

    Not much for the head of a crime syndicate.

    http://www.brasilwire.com/judicial-farce-moro-freezes-lulas-assets-cant-find-triplex/

    Jul 22nd, 2017 - 03:03 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Jack Bauer

    Not sure of Juanma’s intention by posting “http://www.brasilwire.com/judicial-farce-moro-freezes-lulas-assets-cant-find-triplex/”. The author's a ‘petista’ (confirmed by his irrational defense of Lula/his involvement with the ‘União dos Movimentos de Moradia São Paulo’, backed by the PT), and his article is stuffed with inaccuracies & fake news :
    He states “Moro gave Cunha months advance warning, enabling him to hide millions of dollars”. Moro did nothing of the sort…the sensationalist press wrote whatever it wanted. Moro needed proof before ordering his arrest.
    He claims “Moro repeatedly refused to admit evidence that would enable him to arrest PSDB’s Aécio Neves”. Neves’ crimes are not linked to the “Lavajato”, therefore not under Moro’s jurisdiction.
    He calls Temer “illegimate president”….why, if he was elected along with Dilma and took over, as foreseen in the Constitution ?
    Moro never acted as prosecutor…the MPF did that - Moro only analyzed the proof and gave the sentence.
    He claims “Moro was unable to produce evidence Lula had ever visited the triplex”. Then what about the photos proving he did ? besides testimony of the Condo’s janitor, the OAS engineers, architects & President, and of other flat-owners in the same condo ?
    He claims “Moro’s wife’s PSDB party has been caught on video and audio receiving tens of millions of dollars in bribes”…1st, Moro’s wife does NOT work for the PSDB … she’s the attorney for a non-profit organization that takes care of mentally-challenged children….and tens of millions of dollars bribe money ? pure BS.
    Contrary to what he states, Moro WAS able to seize the “triplex”…and the audio between Temer /Joesley (JBS) never mentions money values…so, what “negotiation” took place ?
    “Lava Jato investigation and it’s ‘industry-wide work freezes’ (?) caused millions of job losses 'n exacerbated what originally would’ve been a ‘minor’ (?) recession” ? BIG lie : the recession started BEFORE Dilma's re-election and the 'Lavajato'.

    Jul 22nd, 2017 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • imoyaro

    Just more agitprop, Jack...

    Jul 23rd, 2017 - 09:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Tweedledum aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    From a man who certainly has severe credibility issues. I certainly know enough to expose your lies. Oh where are these “signed contracts” of Lula’s for the condo that you claim. You can’t show them because they don’t exist period. “Moro presented blank, unsigned contracts…” The good judge for some unknown reason must have had the signatures removed.
    ://en.mercopress.com/2017/07/12/brazil-former-president-lula-da-silva-found-guilty-of-corruption/comments#comment470522
    Further confirmation is given to your continued lying at “The only reason for receptacles - in 'public' bathrooms - is to throw the bulkier paper hand-towels … If he thinks he's proved I'm a liar - about anything - let him TRY to prove it.” ://en.mercopress.com/2017/07/12/brazil-former-president-lula-da-silva-found-guilty-of-corruption/comments#comment470703
    “Thanks for giving me the opportunity to provide conclusive evidence of your unmitigated lying. You readily supply much of the same content as o saco de merda.” http://en.mercopress.com/2017/07/12/brazil-former-president-lula-da-silva-found-guilty-of-corruption/comments#comment470714

    Jul 23rd, 2017 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • imoyaro

    And more seizures!

    https://www.voanews.com/a/brazil-judge-seizes-millions-of-dollars-former-president-luiz-inacio-lula-da-silva-pension-funds/3952763.html

    Jul 23rd, 2017 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @imoyaro
    Think Terry is mentally confused...it's the 3rd time he's posted the same crap....it's impossible to take him seriously...he must've tripped in one of the bathrooms he talks so much of, and got his head stuck in a poop bin....

    Jul 23rd, 2017 - 10:21 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “The Attorney Genera'ls office is now going after another US$ 3 million,” I’ll hold that in abeyance, as you cannot ever tell the truth. You would lie about even bathroom etiquette. In fact you are the biggest liar on this site. http://en.mercopress.com/2017/07/12/brazil-former-president-lula-da-silva-found-guilty-of-corruption/comments#comment470714
    “Moro presented blank, unsigned contracts…The apartment that Moro argues that Ms. Marisa Letícia tried to purchase, according to judge Moro, is number 141, and the one that he says they owned is number 164, which is larger and more expansive. But no commercial transaction was ever made…judge Moro, who is constantly photographed with opposition politicians like Aécio Neves (who was recently reinstated in the Senate despite being caught on audio and video soliciting millions of dollars in bribes and threatening to kill a witness)…instead, he judged in favor of his own prosecution argument that since Lula was the “supreme chief” of a giant, international corruption scheme, no physical evidence was necessary. …The fact that best illustrates the farce of Lula’s conviction is that Moro was unable to seize the Guaruja apartment because he could not legally prove that Lula owns it. In other words, Lula was sentenced to 9.5 years of prison, which can only be appealed after next year’s election cycle, for receiving illegal reforms on an apartment that he has never set foot in and that the court’s cannot prove that he owns.”
    http://en.mercopress.com/2017/07/12/brazil-former-president-lula-da-silva-found-guilty-of-corruption/comments#comment470714

    Jul 23rd, 2017 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • imoyaro

    Yeah, you'll notice he's even ignoring what I posted above, that they went after 2.8 million in his and his foundation's accounts on Thursday. Funny as hell!

    Jul 23rd, 2017 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    i’mayahoo
    “You'll notice he's even ignoring what I posted above” Not at all I only read that after responding to Proof-less and Truth-less.
    The whole idea of this ‘lawfare is to strip Lula’ of any ability to legally challenge the results of a his political trial. I don’t believe they will succeed as there’s to many educated people that can ascertain what is occurring, and will more than be happy to contribute to his defence.

    Jul 23rd, 2017 - 11:57 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • :o))

    REF: “Ex Brazilian president assets and bank accounts frozen”: And EVERYONE is SO sure!:
    https://www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/00rs0721ars-768x514.jpg

    Jul 24th, 2017 - 11:51 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “Reading it ONCE is enough to know it's a waste of time.” My sentiments exactly as to any chance of you smartening up and flying straight. I’m sure you don’t like information that conclusively reveals that you are an unmitigated deliberate liar. That what ever you write is waste of time reading it because it is inevitability untrue
    http://en.mercopress.com/2017/07/14/lula-defies-conviction-and-formally-launches-his-presidential-candidacy/comments#comment470870

    Jul 24th, 2017 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Jack Bauer

    @imoyaro
    Trollence accuses me of lying when I wrote “The Attorney General's office is now going after another US$ 3 million,” and says “I’ll hold that in abeyance, as you cannot ever tell the truth”. Well , to prove who the liar is :- https://youtu.be/nVQagkUsGzs

    And his bathroom “etiquette” - produced as proof to his claim he knows all about Brazil - is beyond funny...it stinks !

    Jul 24th, 2017 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • imoyaro

    Heh heh, I like the avatar of the presenter of that video, a Guy Fawkes mask coupled with a Cangaceiro hat!

    Jul 24th, 2017 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    At term that means Im not going make any judgement a this time. So how does that qualify as being a lie?
    abeyance |əˈbāənsəˈbeɪəns|
    noun
    a state of temporary disuse or suspension: matters were held in abeyance pending further inquiries.
    • Law the position of being without, or waiting for, an owner or claimant.
    This is a deliberate lie. JB “The only reason for receptacles - in 'public' bathrooms - is to throw the bulkier paper hand-towels … If he thinks he's proved I'm a liar - about anything - let him TRY to prove it.”
    hp://en.mercopress.com/2017/07/12/brazil-former-president-lula-da-silva-found-guilty-of-corruption/comments#comment470703
    “In common with most Latin American countries, the sewage system in Brazil can't cope with paper being flushed, so use the bin provided.”
    //www.wheredoiputthepaper.com.
    “Where Do I Put my Toilet Paper? ..a trash bin. And, yes, that's where you put the paper after you used it.”
    //thebrazilbusiness.com/article/going-to-the-toilet-in-brazil
    “Living in Brazil: Electric showers, toilet litter and other oddities ..that nasty plastic basket with everyone´s used toilet paper in it. I hate being gross in my blog, but it´s a gross thing, believe me. For some unexplained reason, Brazilian piping and sewage is not compatible with toilet paper so people never flush the toilet paper down their toilets. Instead, they provide little baskets, sometimes with lids and sometimes without, beside the toilet for the toilet paper. If you refuse to use them, as I did at first, you end up blocking their entire piping system.”
    https://brazilphenomenon.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/living-in-brazil-electric-showers-toilet-litter-and-other-oddities/
    So thanks for giving me the opportunity to provide conclusive evidence of your unmitigated lying. You readily supply much of the same content as o saco de merda.

    Jul 24th, 2017 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Jack Bauer

    TH
    I know what to 'hold in abeyance' means numbnuts....but the message in rest of your paragraph, “...as you cannot ever tell the truth. You would lie about even bathroom etiquette”, is clear enough....And if I needed to consult a dictionary, don't worry, we do have those in Brazil...or are you going to call me a liar about “library etiquette” as well ??
    Why d'you repeat your silly claims ? it ain't gonna make them true...

    Jul 24th, 2017 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “Why d'you repeat your silly claims ? it ain't gonna make them true…” The evidence from own post refutes your latest lie bozo as following three independent witness’s prove as in this deliberate lie JB “The only reason for receptacles - in 'public' bathrooms - is to throw the bulkier paper hand-towels … If he thinks he's proved I'm a liar - about anything - let him TRY to prove it.”
    hp://en.mercopress.com/2017/07/12/brazil-former-president-lula-da-silva-found-guilty-of-corruption/comments#comment470703
    “In common with most Latin American countries, the sewage system in Brazil can't cope with paper being flushed, so use the bin provided.”
    //www.wheredoiputthepaper.com.
    “Where Do I Put my Toilet Paper? ..a trash bin. And, yes, that's where you put the paper after you used it.”
    //thebrazilbusiness.com/article/going-to-the-toilet-in-brazil
    “Living in Brazil: Electric showers, toilet litter and other oddities ..that nasty plastic basket with everyone´s used toilet paper in it. I hate being gross in my blog, but it´s a gross thing, believe me. For some unexplained reason, Brazilian piping and sewage is not compatible with toilet paper so people never flush the toilet paper down their toilets. Instead, they provide little baskets, sometimes with lids and sometimes without, beside the toilet for the toilet paper. If you refuse to use them, as I did at first, you end up blocking their entire piping system.”
    https://brazilphenomenon.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/living-in-brazil-electric-showers-toilet-litter-and-other-oddities/
    So thanks for giving me the further opportunity to provide the conclusive evidence of your unmitigated lying. You readily supply much of the same content as o saco de merda.

    Jul 25th, 2017 - 12:26 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • imoyaro

    Look at the walls of verbiage Trollence Shill is spewing out. Can you say diversion? Sure you can, boys and girls. Straight out of the Kamerad/Komrade Rique “Handbook of Lying and Obfuscation.” He must really be freaking out that they keep finding more of Lula's assets to lock...

    Jul 25th, 2017 - 12:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    i’mayahoo another of Proof-less and Truth-less's slavish followers
    ‘by his nickname imoyaro, which could best be translated as “potato bastard”.’ https://drinkinginjapan.net/tag/nomihodai/
    I’ll be a little kinder as I will always remember you affectionately as Mr. Potato-Head.
    “Lying and Obfuscation.” of which you can show no evidence. Therefore, “Philosophers connect sentences with various items, such as thoughts, facts and states of affairs. Thoughts are either true or false in an absolute sense, never both or neither.” plato.stanford.edu/entries/states-of-affairs/
    Since your failure to meet your obligation to support such a claim means you’re revealed once more as liar since “thoughts are either true or false .. never both or neither.”

    Jul 25th, 2017 - 01:39 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Jack Bauer

    @imoyaro
    Ole Terry 9 fingers, always demanding proof....and when presesented with it, instead of admitting he pissed out the pot - or rather, lied - he throws a tantrum and repeats his endless bs about bog paper...Since he keeps on asking where to put the used toilet paper, maybe someone should tell him....not in the bin, you pig !
    Have you noticed that everyone who disagrees with him is a liar ?
    But enough time wasted on the nutcase.

    Jul 25th, 2017 - 01:57 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “Since he keeps on asking where to put the used toilet paper” It’s you who keeps denying the truth of this quaint custom. “receptacles - in 'public' bathrooms - is to throw the bulkier paper hand-towels … If he thinks he's proved I'm a liar - about anything - let him TRY to prove it.”
    hp://en.mercopress.com/2017/07/12/brazil-former-president-lula-da-silva-found-guilty-of-corruption/comments#comment470703
    “In common with most Latin American countries, the sewage system in Brazil can't cope with paper being flushed, so use the bin provided.”
    //www.wheredoiputthepaper.com.
    “Where Do I Put my Toilet Paper? ..a trash bin. And, yes, that's where you put the paper after you used it.”
    //thebrazilbusiness.com/article/going-to-the-toilet-in-brazil
    “Living in Brazil: Electric showers, toilet litter and other oddities ..that nasty plastic basket with everyone´s used toilet paper in it. I hate being gross in my blog, but it´s a gross thing, believe me. For some unexplained reason, Brazilian piping and sewage is not compatible with toilet paper so people never flush the toilet paper down their toilets. Instead, they provide little baskets, sometimes with lids and sometimes without, beside the toilet for the toilet paper. If you refuse to use them, as I did at first, you end up blocking their entire piping system.”
    https://brazilphenomenon.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/living-in-brazil-electric-showers-toilet-litter-and-other-oddities/
    So thanks for giving me the a further opportunity to provide the conclusive evidence of your unmitigated lying. You readily supply much of the same content as o saco de merda.

    Jul 25th, 2017 - 02:10 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    Why has this thread turned into another discussion of loo roll?

    It's supposed to be about Lula, who really doesn't have many assets for the supposed head of a corruption ring.

    Jack, what are these contracts that Terence is always going on about?

    Also, interesting article from Brasilwire. I hadn't seen anything about Lava-jato costing jobs before, but it does make sense as it was some of the biggest contractors who are involved. I'd like to see how they calculated their figures though.

    Jul 25th, 2017 - 10:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DemonTree
    “Why has this thread turned into another discussion of loo roll?”
    That is the evidence that shows that JB’s claims are deliberate falsehoods.
    Lula would have been advised as to financial consequences. The monies would have been from earnings from speaking engagements, that appropriate taxes would have been paid on. The fact that JB is shown to be a liar under scores his lack of belief in his own narrative, and further indicates his lack of moral turpitude.

    Jul 25th, 2017 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    Answer to your 1st question (loo roll) - Because Terry 9-fingers has become obsessed with the “receptacles” he believes are needed in all Brazilian bathrooms, “modest or lavish”....it's laughable.

    Second question : the contracts he keeps on moaning about is basically one, which became 'two'.....initially (2007), Lula's wife signed a contract to acquire a flat in what later became the “Solaris” condo - after OAS took it over - and the same contract which later on, was crudely altered by hand (between Lula and OAS) to reflect a different flat on a higher floor, which eventually became apt 164A....the one OAS was “reserving” and modified completely, according to Lula's wife's taste (adding a private elevator - attending exclusively flat 164A - a gourmet kitchen, high-end equipment and furniture, all costing well in excess of R$ 1 million), for Lula and his family, as payment for facilitating OAS contracts with Petrobras....
    Before you ask, what the Terry 9-fingers refers to as earnings from “speaking engagements”, were mainly payments for 'engagements' that never occurred, but Lula was paid handsomely for - by Odebrecht, OAS and others - to guarantee Lula a comfortable.
    retirement..... Some of the companies who paid, have confessed to the scheme.

    Jul 25th, 2017 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    That was supposed to be a rhetorical question...

    Anyway, so Lula's wife signed a contract for a different flat, but according to Moro they were 'upgraded' to the triplex for free? I did hear that Lula was not the official owner of the flat, I presume not of the one originally signed for either?

    I would be surprised if Lula could not get real speaking engagements though, most ex-Presidents seem to be in high demand and paid handsomely too.

    And those involved in the Lava-jato and other scandals are supposed to have stolen 100s of millions, if not billions. US$3m is small potatoes so who has got the rest of the loot?

    Jul 25th, 2017 - 11:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “receptacles” he believes are needed in all Brazilian bathrooms” Not at all I know the answer to that along with the following witness’s the evidence of your compulsive lying “ … If he thinks he's proved I'm a liar - about anything - let him TRY to prove it.”
    hp://en.mercopress.com/2017/07/12/brazil-former-president-lula-da-silva-found-guilty-of-corruption/comments#comment470703
    “In common with most Latin American countries, the sewage system in Brazil can't cope with paper being flushed, so use the bin provided.”
    //www.wheredoiputthepaper.com.
    “Where Do I Put my Toilet Paper? ..a trash bin. And, yes, that's where you put the paper after you used it.”
    //thebrazilbusiness.com/article/going-to-the-toilet-in-brazil
    “Living in Brazil: Electric showers, toilet litter and other oddities ..that nasty plastic basket with everyone´s used toilet paper in it. I hate being gross in my blog, but it´s a gross thing, believe me. For some unexplained reason, Brazilian piping and sewage is not compatible with toilet paper so people never flush the toilet paper down their toilets. Instead, they provide little baskets, sometimes with lids and sometimes without, beside the toilet for the toilet paper. If you refuse to use them, as I did at first, you end up blocking their entire piping system.”
    https://brazilphenomenon.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/living-in-brazil-electric-showers-toilet-litter-and-other-oddities/
    So thanks for giving me the a further opportunity to provide the evidence of your unmitigated lying. You readily supply much of the same content as o saco de merda. So if you lie about that it makes everything say completely unreliable without a citation.

    Jul 26th, 2017 - 12:51 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    Ok…thought so, but thought it'd be nice to show how nuts some people are...

    “Anyway, so Lula's wife signed a contract for a different flat, but according to Moro they were 'upgraded' to the triplex for free?”…. Exactly. The apartment, while “reserved” for Lula, was in OAS’s name…it would either remain in OAS’s name after Lula had moved in, or be put in the name of one of Lula’s rich friends….just like the second flat on the same floor in his SBCampo condo, which was paid for by Odebrecht and is in the name of one of his lawyers, Roberto Teixeira…Lula claimed he doesn’t own it, but only rents it - yet he cannot produce the receipts for the rent.
    Lula did in fact earn money for ‘some’ lectures on Brazil, however, many speaking engagements he was paid for, never occurred - Odebrecht confirmed this was one of the ways to transfer money to Lula and produced proof of payment, and the executives who supposedly went to the lectures, confirmed many never happened.
    “….so who has got the rest of the loot?”…so far, very few of the executives from Petrobras and the construction companies, who received bribes, have been sentenced, but those who have , have already returned several hundred million dollars. None of the 200 plus members of Congress who have been mentioned as having received bribes, have even been tried yet (by the Supreme court), so there must be plenty more out there. Congress is actively trying to pass laws which will give them full immunity from undeclared (illegal) campaign donations, making it even more difficult to discern whether the money they received was bribes, or not…If they were honest, why worry ? As to Lula, as amply divulged by Joesley Batista (the JBS guy that incriminated Temer), the latter opened a foreign account to stash Lula’s ‘rewards’….as the whole scheme has been uncovered, Joesley is now repatriating the money (USD 80 million), as well as that of another account for Dilma, to the order of USD 70 million

    Jul 26th, 2017 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Christopher Hitchens
    Especially when the party making the unsupported assertions is repeatedly proven too be a liar.

    Jul 26th, 2017 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    So basically there is a signed contract but it's not for the triplex. Something we could have found out earlier without all the accusations of lying.

    It's difficult because a lot of the evidence is hearsay; on the one hand it makes sense for those guilty not to have things in their own names, on the other it makes it hard to prove someone is guilty or to show they are innocent. Like with the lectures; they can show the payments were made, but to know whether the talks were given we must rely on the word of those who attended, most of whom have probably been accused themselves. Besides, if Odebrecht were sensible they would have had him come and give the talk, even if the money was intended to pay for other 'services'.

    I suppose those foreign accounts are in Joesley's name and not Lula's and Dilma's? He could be telling the truth, or for all we know he could be lying in order to protect someone else.

    I'm glad to know that some of the money is being returned at least. I suppose it would be a bad idea to just let the guilty pay huge fines to get out of being investigated and ban them from holding office for a period of time, but at least you could get the money back, and it's better than letting them change the law to let themselves off.

    Jul 26th, 2017 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DemonTree
    If only….and you would rely on the word of a proven pathological liar. That doesn’t say much about your judgement either, does it?
    “President Lula is innocent. For over three years, Lula has been subject to a politically motivated investigation. No credible evidence of guilt has been produced, and overwhelming proof of his innocence blatantly ignored. This politically motivated judgement attacks Brazil’s rule of law, democracy and Lula’s basic human rights. It is of immense concern to the Brazilian people and to the international community. ,,, Judge Moro made his bias and political motivation clear from the beginning to the end of the process. His judgement has shamed Brazil by ignoring overwhelming evidence of innocence and succumbing to political bias whilst overseeing continual breaches of basic human rights and the legal process. The judgement proves what we have argued all along – that Judge Moro and the Car Wash prosecution have been driven by politics rather than law. …President Lula has been subject to lawfare, the use of law for political aims, famously used to brutal effect in dictatorships throughout history. This politically motivated and biased judgement illustrates how President Lula’s domestic legal remedies have been exhausted and why it has been necessary to refer this case to the United Nations Human Rights Committee in Geneva.
    “We will prove Lula’s innocence in all unbiased courts including the United Nations.”
    Cristiano Zanin Martins and Valeska Teixeira Zanin Martins

    Jul 26th, 2017 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Terence, that is a statement from Lula's lawyers. They are as far from impartial as it is possible to be; it's their job to say he is innocent and use whatever doubts they can find to get him acquitted.

    I don't pretend to know whether he is guilty or not. The best we can do is look at the evidence available. For example, the prosecution claim the apartment was modified to match the Lula family's tastes and requirements. Does the defence say this is not true, or do they have some other explanation for it?

    Jul 26th, 2017 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DemonTree
    There are four filings at this URL http://www.averdadedelula.com.br/en/category/legal/. Other than the say so of the most partisan detractor where is the citation to such actual evidence?
    1. LULA INSTITUTE’S OFFICERS CONFIRM LULA DID NOT RECEIVE PROPERTY
    2. DEFENSE REAFFIRMS OAS OWNS THREE-STORY APARTMENT
    3. LULA’S DEFENSE FILES CLOSING ARGUMENTS CONCERNING THREE-STORY APARTMENT CASE
    4. DOCUMENTS PROVE THREE-STORY APARTMENT’S ASSIGNMENT OF RIGHTS

    Jul 27th, 2017 - 02:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @TH
    There are a lot more than four posts at that link. If one of them answers my question above, please could you link to it and preferably quote the relevant portion?

    What I would like is a non-partisan site that summarises the evidence presented by both sides as well as giving relevant background, but I doubt that it exists. Perhaps later I will have a look to see if the evidence is listed anywhere, if I have time.

    Jul 27th, 2017 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    The ‘exchange’ of a smaller apartment for the ‘triplex’ - free of charge - was one of the rewards for facilitating PB contracts with OAS. This was amply divulged by the press & reconfirmed during the investigations. As to the accusations of lying, these would have been made, no matter what. This evidence is not hearsay…the whistleblowers pointed where to look and the federal police located it. The whole idea of not registering assets in one's own name, is to hide them, and gives the de-facto owner plausible deniability. Takes no genius to know this. Between 2011-2015, Lula is reported to have given 72 lectures, at 45 different companies. 40% of them, responsible for revenue of R$ 12 million, were given to the same 5 large contractors involved in the “lavajato”, and one bank, also accused. A few executives, who were instructed to attend, now admit that not all the lectures were given…but were paid for. Back then, no one ever thought such ‘trivial’ matters would be investigated in the future. The owner of OAS confirmed the lectures were Odebretcht’s idea, as a means to pay Lula off and to guarantee his retirement…and that the one and same recurring theme of his lectures was how he, against all odds, became Brazil’s all-time greatest statesman...or, just political propaganda. What else would Lula be able to talk about, to highly paid executives ?
    The 2 illegally opened accounts, holding USD 150 million, for Lula and Dilma, remained in Joesley’s name, who'd move the accounts only when instructed to, by Guido Mantega (Lula/Dilma’s Finance Minister); Whether in his name, or in the real owners, is a mere detail, but a very important one for Lula to be able to claim he knew nothing about it…the MO is clear.
    Lula’s deceased wife accompanied the reform of the triplex, giving instructions and supervising every detail, and that is not what would happen if the flat was to be put up for sale, later on...
    Lula's only defense ? the flat's not formally in his name.

    Jul 27th, 2017 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Christopher Hitchens
    Especially when the party making the unsupported assertions is repeatedly proven too be a liar.

    Jul 27th, 2017 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    “He who claims all bathrooms in Brazil, ”modest or lavish“, have poop receptacles, can be dismissed for being an idiot”.....Whatta Bitchens
    Especially when he poops in his own cage and is repeatedly proven TO be a pig.

    Jul 27th, 2017 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    So including myself here is evidence from four sources that conclusively prove you’re a liar. While you can’t produce a single source to support your nonsense.
    “He who claims all bathrooms in Brazil, … have poop receptacles, can be dismissed for being an idiot”
    “In common with most Latin American countries, the sewage system in Brazil can't cope with paper being flushed, so use the bin provided.”
    *ttps:///www.wheredoiputthepaper.com.
    “Where Do I Put my Toilet Paper? ..a trash bin. And, yes, that's where you put the paper after you used it.”
    *ttps://thebrazilbusiness.com/article/going-to-the-toilet-in-brazil
    “Living in Brazil: Electric showers, toilet litter and other oddities ..that nasty plastic basket with everyone´s used toilet paper in it. I hate being gross in my blog, but it´s a gross thing, believe me. For some unexplained reason, Brazilian piping and sewage is not compatible with toilet paper so people never flush the toilet paper down their toilets. Instead, they provide little baskets, sometimes with lids and sometimes without, beside the toilet for the toilet paper. If you refuse to use them, as I did at first, you end up blocking their entire piping system.”
    https://brazilphenomenon.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/living-in-brazil-electric-showers-toilet-litter-and-other-oddities/
    So thanks for giving me the opportunity to provide conclusive evidence of your unmitigated lying. You readily supply much of the same content as o saco de merda.

    Jul 27th, 2017 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Keep it coming numbnuts....seems that one person's trauma with a brazilian bog, in some old house in the Jardins, has had a lasting effect on your small brain...

    Jul 28th, 2017 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “Keep it coming …”. No problem, since it for fills a number of options. Conclusive proof of the following:
    1. That you are revealed as liar. 2. That you have no confidence in your own narrative to produce such a falsity. 3. Refutes your claim that I have no familiarity with Brazil. Keep living up to your moniker.

    Jul 28th, 2017 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    Hmm, since Lula had retired from politics, at least theoretically, why would Odebrecht still need to bribe him? Just because he still had a lot of power behind the scenes?

    As the accounts were in Joesley's name, we only have his word for who they really belonged to. How were the real owners supposed to get money out of them?

    And I read that Lula had admitted visiting the flat once but said they decided not to buy it. Did witnesses see his wife visit it repeatedly?

    And you know if you keep replying to Terence you'll just encourage him. He's not being completely unreasonable, all the countries in Central America that I visited had exactly the arrangement he describes, because flushing toilet paper would block the plumbing. I wouldn't be surprised if the same was true in parts of Brazil. I daresay there are people who don't even have a flushing toilet in the countryside.

    Jul 28th, 2017 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    It appears that you don’t know your ass from a hole in the ground.
    Toilet Paper Flushing World Map
    https://mindofahitchhiker.com/should-you-flush-the-toilet-paper-a-flowchart/

    Jul 28th, 2017 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    That Dilma was Lula's puppet is no secret ; she did what she was told to. And when she tried to 'appear“ independent, Lula would clip her wings by criticizing her publicly....although during his interrogation by Moro, about 2 months ago, he denied having had any influence in the PT since 2010....everyone knows that no 'petista' even farts without getting his approval.
    The USD 150 million in the two Joesley accounts, was moved about by Joesley, as needed, instructed by Guido Mantega, Lula's and Dilma's Finance Minister.
    Lula only ”confessed” he hadn't liked the triplex, when being questioned by Moro...until then, he had visited it (acording to eyewitnesses) about 3 times - one of them he was photographed ; his wife visited in frequently - with one of her sons, and also with Leo Pinheiro (OAS president), especially in the first 9 months of 2014, to ensure the finishing touches were carried out to her liking. Lula literally trampled on her memory when he later claimed it was all his deceased wife's doing.
    For once and for all, the idea that toilet paper cannot be flushed down toilets, is true in only 'parts' / certain types of construction, in Brazil - as I've already said - in irregular constructions (slums) because there is no sewage system ; in very 'old' houses and/or office buildings - because the pipes are usually completely rusted, and therefore, now too narrow ; usually in public bathrooms, to discourage people from thowing all sorts of crap in the loo....
    TH's claim that this is the standard in all constructions, “modest or lavish” is BS....'lavish' constructions (presumably for people with money), and all new construction in decent neighbourhoods, don't have this problem...In our country home, 30 miles from the centre of São Paulo, we have flushing toilets - that work well - because we built a decent sewage system. If the “saco de merda's” Brazilian experience - if not another lie - was unsatisfactory, it's too bad.

    Jul 29th, 2017 - 09:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!