MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
International legal cooperation has been essential in combating corruption admits Brazilian Prosecutor General
Former Brazilian President Lula da Silva’s conviction on corruption charges is not a political statement, but an enforcement of the law demonstrative of Brazil’s commitment to combat corruption at the highest levels of society, Brazilian Prosecutor-General Rodrigo Janot said at the Atlantic Council this week. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesRodrigo Jano you can eventually try fruitlessly to convince the The United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC). As in my view his trial was at variance with all of the accepted standards of international law. It was more on a par with the show-trials of the former East Block nations, much to Brazil’s shame.
Jul 22nd, 2017 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Of course you Hillbilly....you know MUCH more about the investigations than Janot does.....but he doesn't need to try to convince the UNHRC of anything.....the law that applies here is Brazilian Law, not international law, nor yours. Talking of shame, that is what you do to the human race. Brazil should be proud that the 9-fingered toad has been convicted...LOL...
Jul 22nd, 2017 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse +1How nicely put! One could fall for this seemingly anti-corruption white knight if one had not read a few days ago the MP story on how ”Brazilian President Michel Temer looked on track on (July 13) Thursday to avoid trial over graft charges...”
Jul 22nd, 2017 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse -1http://en.mercopress.com/2017/07/14/temer-manages-a-first-victory-to-avoid-trial-over-graft-charges
No change in sight. The law keeps being like a spider's' web--catches the mosquito but let go free the bumblebee.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jul 23rd, 2017 - 12:18 am - Link - Report abuse -2“You know MUCH more about the investigations than Janot does..” I know the trial has not conformed to the norms of the civilized world.
I certainly know enough to expose your lies. Oh where are these “signed contracts” of Lula’s for the condo that you claim. You can’t show them because they don’t exist period.
://en.mercopress.com/2017/07/12/brazil-former-president-lula-da-silva-found-guilty-of-corruption/comments#comment470522
Further confirmation is given to your continued lying at “The only reason for receptacles - in 'public' bathrooms - is to throw the bulkier paper hand-towels … If he thinks he's proved I'm a liar - about anything - let him TRY to prove it.” ://en.mercopress.com/2017/07/12/brazil-former-president-lula-da-silva-found-guilty-of-corruption/comments#comment470703
“Thanks for giving me the opportunity to provide conclusive evidence of your unmitigated lying. You readily supply much of the same content as o saco de merda.” http://en.mercopress.com/2017/07/12/brazil-former-president-lula-da-silva-found-guilty-of-corruption/comments#comment470714
Hillbilly
Jul 23rd, 2017 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Read Moro's sentence......
Can't help it if the only bathrooms you went to, to empty your head - presuming you spent some time here - were sub-standard...
TH
Jul 24th, 2017 - 04:12 am - Link - Report abuse -3Good one. Beat the crap out of Jack.
@EM
Jul 24th, 2017 - 08:38 am - Link - Report abuse +1I believe Janot is the one trying to prosecute Temer, but Temer currently has political immunity so it is up to his fellow (corrupt) politicians to allow it to go ahead. But Janot still has more charges to bring, reportedly his plan is to introduce them gradually to give plenty of chances for a prosecution.
If ultimately Lula's conviction is confirmed and Temer, Neves etc get off then I will concede you are right. However, it's quite likely the next presidential election will be fought by a bunch of unknowns as the top people of all parties will be convicted in the court of public opinion even if they escape justice.
“Good one. Beat the crap out of Jack.”
Really? Personally I find reasonable arguments and evidence a lot more convincing than personal attacks.
WATCH the title changing S00N to:
Jul 24th, 2017 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse +1“Int'l. Legal Cooperation is ABSOLUTELY essential in PROMOTING corruption”:
REF: https://www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Corrupcao-e-Impostos-Altos-768x506.jpg
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jul 24th, 2017 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Bleat and squirm all want but your own lying big mouth has exposed you. I’m sure you don’t like information that conclusively reveals that you are an unmitigated deliberate liar. That what ever you write is waste of time reading it because it is inevitability untrue.
@DT
Jul 24th, 2017 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse +1EM & TH , just like peas in a pod...they both repeat their lies until they themeselves, believe them...as imoyaro said, just agitprop.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jul 24th, 2017 - 07:35 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Bleat and squirm all want but your own lying big mouth has exposed you. I’m sure you don’t like information that conclusively reveals that you are an unmitigated deliberate liar. That what ever you write is waste of time reading it because it is inevitability untrue.
http://en.mercopress.com/2017/07/14/lula-defies-conviction-and-formally-launches-his-presidential-candidacy/comments#comment470870
@JB
Jul 24th, 2017 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Nah. You and EM are never going to see eye to eye because you have such different beliefs, but he does know what he is talking about. Obviously he knows a lot more about Argentina than Brazil though.
@DT
Jul 24th, 2017 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse +1OK, I'm prepared to accept that EM is being sincere when he posts on Brazil, although by not living here, he gets his information through the internet, which implies he misses many of the day-to-day subtleties that only locals are familiar with...
Believe he'd be better off sticking to Argentina, which obviously he knows more about that TH does of Brazil...And, to be fair, at least he is not a haughty nincompoop.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jul 25th, 2017 - 12:33 am - Link - Report abuse -2“He knows more about that TH does of Brazil…” Apparently I know enough about Brazil and you to prove your constant lying, which cannot refute.
The TWO Bottom Lines are:
Jul 25th, 2017 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse +11º: the corrupt take the masses for a ride [a wild goose chase]
2º: AND the masses let them
THIS IS HOW: https://www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/JC-OPI0724_CHARGETHIAGO2017_face_insta-441x420.jpg
@JB
Jul 25th, 2017 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Yeah, I'm sure living in a country gives you a different perspective, although you can learn a lot by reading the news. But there are plenty of people in Brazil who still support Lula, and not all of them are the poor and uneducated either.
For them, even if they don't think he is perfect, they prefer him to the other options who are mostly also accused of corruption. Just look at Aécio Neves, the guy who came second in the last presidential election. He's been accused of soliciting a R$2m bribe from Joesley Batista, among other things. Why would any voter prefer him to Lula?
@DT
Jul 25th, 2017 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Those who live here also have accesss to the same news, with the advantage of being here.
Besides the northeast, which is a PT stronghold due to the 'bolsa-familia', and being where Lula is from, polls show that Lula is losing ground....In the distant eastern and southern suburbs of São Paulo - the poorest regions in the State - where, by no coincidence people have traditionally supported Lula, voters are starting to question if he's the best choice...and yes, you are right, there are quite a few followers amongst the wealthy, especially amongst TV artists who believe that supporting Lula will make them look good in the public eye, and those who stand to benefit businesswise from another term for Lula. Most educated people are capable of seeing through the lies, but regardless, some like Lula....so what can you do, other than lament their choice ?
The problem with the 'other' options, is that presently no-one stands out ...people have lost their faith in the politicians, and not without reason - and with rare exceptions, it is their own fault - it still hasn't sunk into their heads that people have had enough of their playing games with our money. While I'm pretty sure Aécio is out of the race , not even the PSDB would back him now, and neither would I. Lula back in power would mean the acceptance, once and for all, that our money is going to be stolen, by the billions, with total impunity, and as far as I'm concerned, that is not an option. I know there is no such thing as being only 'slightly corrupt', and that giving the less-corrupt a reprieve doesn't make much sense, but on the corruption scale, Lula stands out as the biggest crook in Brazilian history. All others, even before him, pale by comparison. It comes down to voting for the least worse.
Personally I'm not at all convinced that Lula is the biggest crook of them all. Even from the various wiretaps etc that have been released, it appears that others have stolen much larger amounts. The fact the cases came out while his party was in power makes it look bad for Lula, but apparently four other presidents (is that all of them?) have also been accused of involvement.
Jul 25th, 2017 - 11:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As for people supporting him, they have different priorities and beliefs about what is best for the country. It all comes down to politics and when the truth isn't clear people believe what suits them. To an outside observer like me it certainly isn't obvious who is right. I do think the PT suffer a disadvantage though, as so much of Lula's popularity is personal. There is no obvious 'clean' candidate to replace him with, which is probably what the other parties will do as people like Neves become politically toxic, even if they can escape prosecution.
Replacing the experienced politicians with newbies will bring its own problems though, especially in the middle of a crisis. To me the most important thing is reducing corruption in the future, that might mean that introducing greater transparency and oversight in government is more important than locking up any one individual, although you need to get enough of them to have a deterrent affect.
@DT
Jul 26th, 2017 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Brzln presidents after '85 : Sarney (assumed when president-elect Tancredo Neves died before being sworn in); Collor (impeached ; officially for having bought a 2nd hand car for his wife, with suspicious funds ; unofficially because he had a very lucrative scheme of extracting money from private business, which he refused to spread around, as Congress expected him to); Itamar Franco (Collor’s VP who took over after the former was impeached…corrupt, I don’t know, but rather uninspiring) ; Fernando H. Cardoso (Itamar’s Finance Minister and creator of the Plano Real, who succeeded Itamar in '95…a few unanswered questions but nothing scandalous), Lula (without a doubt one of the mentors of the largest crime organization ever to be installed in the federal government), Dilma (Lula’s puppet who eventually attemped to fly on her own, which caused their relationship to become strained ; best known for her total incompetence, and impeachment), now Temer….accused of corruption and so far, managing to keep his nose above water.
After a quick glimpse over each one’s history, Lula stands out, alone, as the head of a widespread criminal organization, in all levels of government, to benefit himself and his party. Many of his henchmen are already in prison. Aside from the accusations, to believe he is honest when surrounded by, and allowing so much corruption, is extremely naïve.
What the majority of politicians want, especially those on the far-left (PC do B and factions within the PT), is the return of the old status quo…being able to do what they want without being accountable to their constituents. Their ideas of what’s best for Brazil does not coincide with a decent democracy. One such person, Gleisi Hoffman, prominent PT senator, is unconditionally supportive of the Maduro regime and praises Venezuelan ‘democracy’….that’s what we can’t accept.
Most people hope the “Lavajato” will root out a lot of the corruption and set a new standard of honesty...
Hmmm. So Lula and Temer have definitely been accused, Dilma was cleared only because they wanted to let Temer off, and Collor was already impeached for corruption during his own presidency. Wikipedia says Sarney has been accused of receiving R$18.5 million in the bribe money from a Petrobras subsidiary. It also says he's regarded as the foremost of Brazil's oligarchs. Itamar Franco is dead so he's unlikely to be prosecuted for anything now. I can't find anything on Cardoso except that bribes were also given during his presidency.
Jul 26th, 2017 - 11:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Something to consider though, is why all these investigations are happening now. It makes the PT look bad that everything is coming out when they were most recently in power. But, it also means they allowed the investigations to take place where previous presidents did not. That doesn't suggest to me that they were the worst criminals, rather the opposite. In order to root out corruption it has to be exposed, and this makes it look worse in the short term.
An interesting thing we saw in the UK expenses scandal, was that MPs from all parties fiddled their expenses, but the ones from the Conservative party were more ambitious and took much larger amounts of money than the Labour MPs. I would not be surprised to see the same thing happening in Brazil.
I'm sure I heard that Lula no longer supports Maduro, so is this an internal division in the PT?
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jul 26th, 2017 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse -2This is from a man who doesn’t even believe his own narrative, he would even lie about the bathroom etiquette in his own country.
“Why d'you repeat your silly claims ? it ain't gonna make them true…” The evidence from own post refutes your latest lie bozo as following three independent witness’s prove as in this deliberate lie JB “The only reason for receptacles - in 'public' bathrooms - is to throw the bulkier paper hand-towels … If he thinks he's proved I'm a liar - about anything - let him TRY to prove it.”
hp://en.mercopress.com/2017/07/12/brazil-former-president-lula-da-silva-found-guilty-of-corruption/comments#comment470703
“In common with most Latin American countries, the sewage system in Brazil can't cope with paper being flushed, so use the bin provided.”
//www.wheredoiputthepaper.com.
“Where Do I Put my Toilet Paper? ..a trash bin. And, yes, that's where you put the paper after you used it.”
//thebrazilbusiness.com/article/going-to-the-toilet-in-brazil
“Living in Brazil: Electric showers, toilet litter and other oddities ..that nasty plastic basket with everyone´s used toilet paper in it. I hate being gross in my blog, but it´s a gross thing, believe me. For some unexplained reason, Brazilian piping and sewage is not compatible with toilet paper so people never flush the toilet paper down their toilets. Instead, they provide little baskets, sometimes with lids and sometimes without, beside the toilet for the toilet paper. If you refuse to use them, as I did at first, you end up blocking their entire piping system.”
https://brazilphenomenon.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/living-in-brazil-electric-showers-toilet-litter-and-other-oddities/
So thanks for giving me the opportunity to provide conclusive evidence of your unmitigated lying. You readily supply much of the same content as o saco de merda.
“Good one. Beat the crap out of Jack.”
Jul 27th, 2017 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Typical Peronist /Fascist coward, eh Kamerad/Komrade Rique? I understand that Meth is becoming all the rage in your neck of the woods. After supporting the Narcokleptocracy's shipping of meth precursors to Mexico to be turned into meth for smuggling into the US for years, how's that working out for you, chantapufi?
@DT
Jul 27th, 2017 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sarney is now facing several corruption charges, but back in the 80’s he managed to block them. The “mensalão” (PT, 2007) was the 1st corruption scandal they couldn’t sweep under the carpet ; after ending in 2012, with very few convictions, it became clear the “Petrolão” (PB) was its sequence…many of the same people, same MO. Cardoso’s been accused of minor irregularities, re which he might still have to defend himself. Why happening now ? simply because instead of just one man randomly helping himself to the till, we had a criminal organization in government, to the extent of virtually bankrupting PB. Why these scandals weren’t hushed up is because public pressure didn’t allow it. Where there are public funds being manipulated, the person with the power of decision, either gets paid off or nothing happens. It was only in the late 90’s that a few NGO’s to fight corruption / defend unconditional transparency of public accounts, were created. Before, government gave little or no satisfaction to the public about its spending, no one knew what was going on. I’ll concede that the PT, once in power, and riding on their claim to fight corruption, gave a few positive contributions - strengthening the Federal Police, giving Federal prosecutors necry independence to investigate corruption - but I’m sure they never expected to become victims of their own doing.
Elected politicians, especially Congress, besides absurdly high salaries, personal benefits, get rent allowances - even if they live in their own homes - a car and free fuel ; even a “clothing” allowance ; they have a budget to hire up to 25 aides - if Deputies - and 80, if Senators…most fiddle their expenses…most common practice is to inflate / present fake fuel bills - which translates into some driving 30,000 km per month, without ever leaving Brasilia...but Congress’ internal regiment permits these abuses.
While the PT ‘is’ divided on Maduro, Lula prefers to not condemn, nor openly support him…says it all.
Judging by the evidence and number of previous presidents accused, it has never been just one man helping himself to the till, but the corruption has been nearly universal for a long time.
Jul 28th, 2017 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Since there are so many parties, coalitions must be normal in congress, and apparently instead of convincing the other parties to vote for their policies, the party in power simply bribed them, or the company wanting a law changed did it directly.
And yeah, I can't imagine the PT expected to become the victim of their own anti-corruption measures, but hey, at least they kept some of their election promises. If you believe they were the main players in the corruption ring, why do you think they took the chance of creating those anti-corruption measures, and then did nothing to stop the investigations growing?
Somehow it doesn't surprise me that the politicians get ridiculous, excessive expenses and still abuse them. They make our MPs look like amateurs. I suppose they get to vote on increasing their own salaries too?
And perhaps Lula doesn't want to speak out too openly against Maduro, since Maduro is still supporting Lula?
@DT
Jul 29th, 2017 - 08:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You’re right, corruption’s always been present in Brazil ; before Collor’s impeachment (’92), no one ever expected the pseudo-investigations to go anywhere…and they didn’t. After Collor, it became clear that if presidents weren’t untouchable, then there was hope. The ‘mensalão’ convictions, although somewhat feeble, changed that perspective, for better.
Your second paragraph, 100% correct.
“why do you think they took the chance of creating those anti-corruption measures, and then did nothing to stop the investigations growing?” The measures they passed to strengthen the Federal Police and to give prosecutors more independence, while (any effort in that direction had) to be applauded, were more symbolical than practical, but it was sufficient to get the ball rolling. Didn’t take long though, for Congress to realize this could backfire, so in 2011, a Congressman from the PT do B (a PT ally) presented a project to amend the Constitution, known as PEC 37/2011, which would prohibit prosecutors from conducting their own investigations, and would oblige them to transfer more than 7000 ongoing investigations into corruption, to the Civil Police, notorious for their inefficiency and being ill-equipped for such a task. In June 2013, still not voted for in Congress, public outcry made them bury it for good. After that, every attempt to defend their political immunity was seen with suspicion by the public, and defeated.
Yep, they get to vote their own salaries etc…usually way above inflation. It’s like letting the fox guard the hen house…
Lula’s “Bolivarian” democracy project was inspired by Chavez’s, so if Lula has any hopes of it going ahead, he can’t very well condemn Maduro, can he ?…regardless of the atrocious abuses committed in VZ, he needs to downplay it . And , true to Lula's style, he always finds someone to hide behind and to do his dirty work…in this case, his darling Gleisi Hoffmann (also a defendant in the “Lavajato”).
Traditionally, Historically and Culturally; Brazil is not yet ready for accepting Honest/Sincere/Ethical AND Patriotic politicians.
Jul 30th, 2017 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: http://www.otempo.com.br/polopoly_fs/1.1500729.1500858921!image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/main-charges-resize_620/image.jpg
@JB
Jul 30th, 2017 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The corruption has taken a long time to really come out if the first promising sign was in 1992! And the congressmen were already trying to protect themselves back in 2011. I didn't know there was so much public awareness that early on.
If my second paragraph is correct, it would make it nearly impossible for any one party to clean up the government, as without the bribes they would not be able to get anything done. However, now they are all being investigated perhaps there is some hope.
I'm not surprised they get to vote their own salaries, ours did too until recently. They did think it would look bad to increase them massively though, hence using expenses to pay themselves more instead. Now there is an independent committee to set MPs' salaries, but still they get a big pay rise unlike other public sector workers, who get less than inflation.
Lula could condemn Maduro for sidelining Congress and repressing the opposition, even if he supports and shares Maduro's aims. Also Brazil stayed capitalist under Lula, so there is no reason for him to support the foolish economic decisions of Chavez and Maduro.
I looked up the latest releases from the Foro de Sao Paulo; they are still supporting Maduro. They condemn the 'parliamentary coup' in Brazil, but say nothing at all about the Chavista-controlled supreme court attempting to take over the powers of the opposition-controlled congress in Venezuela. I'm sad to see they are just as happy to endorse non-democratic means to get their way as those on the right.
@DT
Jul 31st, 2017 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Society has always been aware of corruption, but due to the little transparency of government, and the ‘ineffectiveness’ of the legal system, it became indifferent…only something out of the ‘normal’ would call their attention.
Re yr 2nd paragraph, that is the result of having 32 political parties, three-quarters of them, “for hire”.
Lula will never commit himself publicly when it comes down to Maduro…his refusal to condemn, plus the fact he gets his puppets (Gleisi Hoffmann) to openly support Maduro and his “democracy”, is his way of getting the message through to his VZ comrade. Lula’s objective was never to ruin capitalism, just to be part of its elite - he soon learned the benefits of such a system and how to take advantage of it - but his intention, behind all the stealing and placing his collaborators in key positions throughout government, was in practice, to control everything and to strengthen the PT to a point where the opposition would be too weak to hurt him…or, a virtual dictatorship, where power would simply substitute the people’s will and /or capacity to change the status quo.
The philosophy of the Fôro de São Paulo is typical of the extreme-left… “do as I say, not as I do”….the danger is the lesser informed people believing their lies. They have nothing positive to contribute.
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