MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina drastically slashes docking services to lower exports' costs
Argentina has set a maximum rate paid for port docking and undocking services, the government said in its official gazette, a change the Transportation Ministry said would slash docking costs by up to 40%. The move comes as President Mauricio Macri seeks to lower the cost of exporting food from the world’s No. 3 soy and corn exporter and the leading shipper of soybean livestock feed. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesI thought Macri was in favour of the free market. Is setting a (much lower than current) maximum price for port services any different to setting a maximum price for food, or for utility bills?
Jan 20th, 2018 - 10:43 am - Link - Report abuse +2Why should economics be any different?
Jan 20th, 2018 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse -3You seem to absolutely revel in the daily display and demonstration of your utter stupidity.
As usual the point flies way over Chronic's head...
Jan 20th, 2018 - 05:53 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Mr. DemonTree...
Jan 21st, 2018 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse -3Main difference consists of...:
Setting a maximum price for food, or for utility bills leaves some extra money in the pockets of the many...
Setting a maximum price for (ex)port services leaves a lot of extra money in the pockets of the few...
Macris' few...
Exactly
Jan 21st, 2018 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse -2@DT
Jan 21st, 2018 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse -2@ Think
@BK
Ditto!
Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....
Jan 21st, 2018 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Two Argies and two Brits somewhat agreeing on MercoPress...
We should throw a party..., we should...;-)
:) I see that everyone else understood me perfectly well.
Jan 21st, 2018 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +1I'm up for a party. When and where?
Your place of course...
Jan 21st, 2018 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse -1And..., as you got a big gas guzzler... you can fetch us at the Airport...
Okay, but only if it's my small local airport. Ryanair fly from there. :)
Jan 21st, 2018 - 07:03 pm - Link - Report abuse +1I only get 50 mpg, I'm not doing as well as Clyde15.
Sr. Enrique Massot...
Jan 21st, 2018 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse -4El primito esta activo... ehhhh?
http://www.eldestapeweb.com/el-aberrante-pedido-massot-los-genocidas-la-decada-del-70-n38589
“Setting a maximum price for food, or for utility bills leaves some extra money in the pockets of the many...” No! If you go the same way as Chavez and Maduro your country ends up in chaos like Venezuala because costs can exceed selling prices and lead to shortages feeding a black market with crippling prices. Let competition in the market bring down prices so thst suppiers and consumers both get a fair deal.
Jan 22nd, 2018 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Setting a maximum price for (ex)port services leaves a lot of extra money in the pockets of the few... Not export services, port fees you muppet! Twinkle twisting the message as usual.. Capping port fees benefits everyone ports are monopolies, monopolies need regulation.
You seriously think ports are a monopoly and utilities aren't?
Jan 22nd, 2018 - 02:49 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Todays message from our sweet Argie vicar in Rome...:
Jan 22nd, 2018 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse -5“América Latina estaba buscando un camino, la patria grande, y de golpe con los años está sufriendo bajo un capitalismo liberal deshumano”
(Latinamerica was searching a way..., the “Patria Grande”..., and suddenly in the last years is suffering under an inhumane liberal capitalism...”
Grande..., Pancho...!
Utilities arent presently a monopoly in Britain, but one party wants to make them a State monopoly. If I remember correctly when utilities were sold off prices fell. Argentina's energy industries are not a monopoly, if there is a problem its with regulation.
Jan 22nd, 2018 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Think! - “Get the red flag flying here”.... Turnip, thats the Chinese mission! Slowly slowly catchee monkey....
In response to all above, some clarification regarding the Argentine seaport system might be helpful ; by what I know, I am presuming that in the Argentine, the “Administracion General de Puertos” functions in a similar fashion as the Brazilian system does : the basic infrastructure of the port system belongs to the State Port Authorities and is the responsibility of the State, which in turn tenders out concessions to the private sector, to operate the marine terminals for periods of say, 20 or 30 years (to perform load/discharge ops, drayage, on/off dock storage etc).
Jan 22nd, 2018 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse +4The act of slashing (the obviously overly expensive) port costs in this case, as the article says, refers to the docking/undocking of the vessels, and the decision to do so was taken as a result of “a decades-long (State) monopoly that resulted in elevated costs” ; these specific costs are charged by the State, so slashing them does not affect the marine terminals, operated by the private sector, and where free-market principles prevail. Under this system - State-owned ports and private concessions - only the private sector has an incentive to be competitive, while the State Port Authority has the monopoly on all other services, so in the end, it’s just a matter of reducing costs charged by the State, benefiting exporters/ importers / consumers.
And referring to an above remark, that ”Setting a maximum price for (ex)port services leaves a lot of extra money in the pockets of the few...”, is completely WRONG...cutting docking costs (port fees) leaves LESS money for the State to squander, leaves MORE money in the pockets of those who are actual service providers, and makes Argentine exports/imports cheaper for the consumer.
In my experience - as a carrier - negotiating the terms of stevedoring contracts etc, with the terminals, is quite competitive....depends what you have to offer the terminal (“x” TEU's per week ?)...that's what a free-market is all about, offer & demand.
An authoritative answer indicating (as usual) that the brainwashed socialist Twinkle turnip doesnt have a clue...
Jan 22nd, 2018 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse +4TWIMC...
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 12:39 am - Link - Report abuse -4Just some facts about the scope of this article...
1) The... “drastic slashes of docking services to lower exports costs”..., mentioned above are part of a... “Mega Decree of Necessity and Urgency”..., presented last week by the Macri Administration..., bypassing the Argie Senate and Congress..., currently on summer holidays...
2) The opposition..., that has mayority in both chambers has immediately reacted against it and already declared that they will vote against this “Mega Decree” in February...
Ergo..., the whole “Mega Decree” scam is stillborn... We don't have to worry anymore about it...
3) Anyhow... The specific... “drastic slashes of docking services to lower exports costs”... were specially oriented to curb the economical and political power of the Dockers Union who are the principal actors in the offering of Docking Services...
4) A ~30% slash on the current ~108,000U$ per vessel cost would mean a ~35,000 U$ saving for the “Customers” and a loss of ~35,000 U$ for the Dockers Union...
That sweet money would stay in the pocket of the “customers” alright...
Only problem being that those “Customers” happen to be a select few agro-export giants like Cargill Inc and Bunge Ltd...
5) As I said above...: All that sweet extra money would have end in the pockets of the few...
Macris' few...
Lol.
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 07:58 am - Link - Report abuse -3Dumbasses.
Privatise it.
Split the facilities.
Modernise rg labor regs to reflect current realities.
Open the bidding to foreign concessionaires.
DT lets get back to this party idea, I'm sure if we get you drunk you'll see Cristina as some of us see her sober ;)
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 10:04 am - Link - Report abuse -5@BK
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Sorry, but there aren't enough beer goggles in the world.
@TV
Aren't those utility companies just middle men though? They all have the same business model of low introductory rates which they raise after a few months, so you either have to switch constantly which is a pain or pay more. The other thing the gas companies are famous for is that when the price of gas goes up, they raise their rates, and when it goes down, they announce record profits.
I'm not old enough to remember prices before privatisation, but there's a handy example available as water was privatised in England and Wales, while in Scotland it wasn't. The average bill in Scotland is currently lower than all but one of the privatised water companies in England and Wales:
http://www.scottishwater.co.uk/you-and-your-home/your-charges/2017-18-charges
DT, some of the Energy Companies are middle men, others are generators, some are wholly on renewables like my current one, based in Leicestershire too! https://www.outfoxthemarket.co.uk/Home.aspx You need Moneysavingexpert energy club. I dont mind switching frequently, a few clicks and its done.
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Will you be haggising Thursday, always a bit of a laugh?
@Think
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Thanks for downgrading my post...just shows how little, if anything, you and couple of others on here, know about how ports work..or simple economic principles. Obviously no use trying to enlighten you.
@DT
Just for further clarification referring to port services, the carriers have the right - usually foreseen in stevedoring contracts with the terminal - to renegotiate the terms every now and again, when prices charged are thought to be no longer competitive, or not in line with the market. The 'bother” to renegotiate can be result in big savings for the carriers, as well as the shippers who use their services. And eventually the consumer, at the end of the chain.
Mr. DemonTree...
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse -3You say...:
@BK Sorry, but there aren't enough beer goggles in the world....
I say...:
No problem with some proper European lager..., lad...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iYsc4vmZad4
Of course he really shouldn't need it, eh? I was just referring to the famous quote about Garbo, that men saw in her sober what they saw in other women drunk. I don't get it DT, you seem like a nice guy and reasonable, why so determinedly ungallant about Cristina? Or maybe you can tell me at the party ;)
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse -5Mr. British-Kirchnerist...
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse -3IMHO... He would need a couple of bottles..., just to dare approaching her...
And a couple of crates to dare asking her some of those “rhetoric” questions of his...
@BK
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 08:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh, I never heard that quote. :) It's just that you sound exactly like certain fans who are enamoured of some celebrity or other, and want to tell everyone how he or she is practically perfect in every way. I never understood it then either.
@Think
You're right, I wouldn't ask her those questions even if I could. I probably wouldn't even dare ask you in person. And I don't like beer, either.
Do the ports in Argentina work the way Jack Bauer said? I wouldn't be too sure the companies will pass those savings on, but maybe they will.
TWIMC...
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse -5IMHO..., Mr. British_Kirchnerist QUITE EVIDENT pseudo idolatrization of Cristina is an excellent counterweight against the real hatred of them Anglo Turnips here present...
Having said the above............, la poranca siempre estuvo buenisima... ;-)
PS...:
Jack Bauer who...?
The idiot that defends street children killings by death squads in Brazil...?
@Think
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse -4If he's only trying to annoy them, sure. But if he wants to convince anyone to take him seriously, then no. It makes him seem just as biased and unreliable as they appear. IMHO, YMMV, etc.
PS. Doesn't mean JB is wrong about how the ports work.
Mr. DemonTree...
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse -5Only to the untrained eye...
PS. No..., but it means that I'm not commenting on anything that idiot says...
He's not an idiot, but if you think so then you'd be better off replying rather than letting everyone believe he's right.
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse -3JB is good on detail, but Twinkle just makes unsubstantiated assertions as usual. He is just as blind, brainwashed and gaga regarding the criminal fashion in which KFC trashed the Argentinian economy whilst criminally lining her pockets as BK.
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 10:38 pm - Link - Report abuse +3pfffffft...
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 10:39 pm - Link - Report abuse -5Think: “Mr. British-Kirchnerist...
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse -5IMHO... He would need a couple of bottles..., just to dare approaching her...”
Touche, as someone said =) Unlike myself of course ;)
BK, I'd find it awkward approaching any stranger without a good reason, and I wouldn't start grilling her with awkward questions the second I met her either.
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 11:31 pm - Link - Report abuse -3Mr. DemonTree...
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 11:48 pm - Link - Report abuse -5I THINK Mr. British_Kirchnerist is referring more to Mme. Kirchners quite imposing charisma than to your social skills...
Not many men dare approach that clever potranca..., I dare to say...
“I wouldn't start grilling her with awkward questions the second I met her either”
Jan 24th, 2018 - 12:23 am - Link - Report abuse -5Neither would I. Though I doubt I'd just run into her as a random stranger anyway ;)
Indeed. But good luck if you do. ;)
Jan 24th, 2018 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse +1I'm sure she'd be more polite that you and Think on the Nisman thread right now ;) Is the party cancelled now lol
Jan 24th, 2018 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse -4:-)
Jan 24th, 2018 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse -1@BK
Jan 24th, 2018 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, it just means you're hosting instead. Don't forget to invite Cristina. ;)
@Think
Jan 24th, 2018 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse +2I don't care whether you answer my posts or not... the fact you read them is enough, numbnuts.
While I don't recall having expressed my opinion on the street kids in Brazil (Rio ?) exactly as you claim I did, I don't need to hide the fact I don't care for them - specially after having been a near victim of two 'innocent kiddies' chasing me with knives, along the Av. Atlantica, some 20 years ago; and more recently (2016), having a friend of mine stabbed by one in the centre of Rio (while only trying to hold on to his cellphone).
If way back then, I forgot to express my sympathy for the kids who were killed by death squads, I'm sooo sorry if I hurt your feelings, but if you think they are worthy of compassion, start a campaign to defend them..
And sounds like 'your' experience with the sea is limited to seeing it, with your 'trained' eye,
through a telescope or more likely, through the bottom of an empty whisky glass.
@DT
The chances are that shippers, seeing the costs in question being slashed, will approach carriers for more competitive rates. If they succeed, is another story.
“I don't care for them...if you think they are worthy of compassion”
Jan 24th, 2018 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Interesting that you think a child is not worthy of compassion, or responsible for their own problems when they were born on the street! Up till now I've just disagreed with you on some points, respectfully even, but this blind bigotry disgusts me
@JB
Jan 24th, 2018 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse +2I don't expect you to have compassion for someone who tried to stab you (though I admire people who do). But it's kinda obvious the death squads must have killed plenty of innocent kids, or those who only committed minor crimes. Don't you have compassion for them?
Plus even if they were criminals they didn't deserve the death penalty, and the death squads were committing crimes themselves, often worse ones. If someone started murdering the former death squad members, would you say they got what was coming to them?
@BK
Jan 25th, 2018 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't be a damned demagogue...there is an “enormous” difference between the street kids in question and “a child”...I presume you've been to Rio many times and are speaking from yr own experience ? these street kids, are “not born on the street”...where d'you get such a misguided idea ? they mostly have been brought up in 'favelas' , and strangely enough, did at one point have the option to go to school and be normal, but they chose to drop out, to live on the streets and resort to crime.
If you think my attitude is that of a bigot, may I respectfully suggest that you adopt a couple of those 'poor kiddies' and try to re-educate them. Otherwise, don't blow hot air.
@DT
Suppose your first sentence refers to Pope John Paul II, who forgave Ali Agca for trying to kill him.....sorry, I haven't reached that stage of 'enlightenment', yet.
The death squads knew very well who they were eliminating...No “innocent” kids would be roaming the streets, swarming around their victims, assaulting them in broad daylight, and trying to hurt them (kicking the sh*t out of them once on the ground, stabbing and even killing them at times) for resisting. Who d'you think is responsible for the killing of innocent foreign tourists you hear about all the time, and who wander around naively ? The kids' innocence is naturally presumed if you aren't aware of what they're capable of, and do...are those minor crimes to you ? and I suppose you're aware of how their apprenticeship in crime on the street (usually led by an adult) will end up...committing worse crimes.
Since the State seems to be incapable of providing even basic security for its citizens, shopkeepers and others got together to take the law into their own hands. I am not defending the death squads, but when the situation reaches the proportion that it did/ has, anything can happen. If 'someone' started killing death squad members, I wouldn't like to be in 'their' shoes....but I woudn't lose any sleep over it.
Anglo Idiot above says...
Jan 25th, 2018 - 05:40 pm - Link - Report abuse -2“If 'someone' started killing death squad members, I wouldn't like to be in 'their' shoes....but I woudn't lose any sleep over it.”
I say...:
Surely not, but..., if 'someone started killing death squad financial backers..., he probably would lose his life over it...
@JB
Jan 25th, 2018 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse +1No, I wasn't referring to anyone in particular, but I imagine the Pope was 'professionally obliged' to forgive his attacker. I doubt I would be any more forgiving than you in that circumstance.
You make the death squads sound like batman, turning up when there was a crime and arresting the criminals in the act. But from what I've heard, they went around at night, killing children sleeping in the street. Whether they had committed minor crimes or serious ones, or were just beggars.
“are those minor crimes to you”
No, but you told me many of the children steal from shops after being recruited by adult gangs. That doesn't warrant a death sentence, especially for kids who have few other options. I can understand why the shopkeepers, and everyone else would be frustrated, but the solution is to change the law and deal with the social problems, not kill them all.
I think it is something any government should realise though. One of the most important jobs of the state is to provide security for its citizens, if it can't do that, then they will turn to someone who promises to do so - like the death squads, or like Duterte - even if they would otherwise find that person or group morally repugnant.
@Think
Jan 26th, 2018 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Thanks for reading my posts....what ever gave you the stupid idea that I financed such criminals ? If you have nothing intelligent to say.....
@DT
Had no intention of making the squads sound like Batman, and agree that some 'relatively' innocent kids may have got what they didn't deserve. The survivors of the streets eventually progress to being drug gang leaders in the 'favelas' and that's when they really start to kill....some are responsible for dozens, if not hundreds of deaths, including other gangs' members as well as truly innocent bystanders. You talk about the kids as if most eventually leave crime when they become older, but they don't.
There are probably more written laws in Brazil than any other country, but if they are not enforced, what's the good of them? A few years ago - finally - a law against drunk driving was passed - if caught driving under the influence of alcohol, you'll lose your license for 1 year....if you kill someone, you'll be subject to 2 to 4 years in jail...recently they raised the sentence from 4 to 8 years...in the last 2 years, drunk driving has increased, and dozens of drunk drivers have killed many dozens of other drivers and pedestrians, yet not one is behind bars....total impunity makes a joke out of the law.
The crime problem is just one of the consequences of a State that is absent and does nothing to improve the situation of the lower class, so the idea that “anything goes to survive”, becomes acceptable to quite a few. On the other hand, the idea that resorting to crime is the natural sequence to being poor, is misguided - otherwise there would be no 'honest' poor people....and the great majority are.
@JB
Jan 26th, 2018 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse +1“The crime problem is just one of the consequences of a State that is absent and does nothing to improve the situation of the lower class, so the idea that “anything goes to survive”, becomes acceptable to quite a few.”
So I see, and not only in the lower classes. I agree the crime problem is the fault of the government for not enforcing the laws, and not offering people other ways out of poverty. But you say “the idea that resorting to crime is the natural sequence to being poor, is misguided”. The people who paid the death squads were also resorting to crime - murder, in fact - to solve their problems. I don't see that they are any better, or more understandable, than the children who stole to survive.
Call me ”auld fashioned..., but...
Jan 26th, 2018 - 08:37 pm - Link - Report abuse +1I have no difficulty in seeing that the better off people..., who pay death squads to murder street children..., are completely despicable..., absolutely inexcusable and infinitely worse than the children who steal to survive...
Also sprach El Think...
@DT
Jan 27th, 2018 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let's put it this way....Agree that the shopowners and the cops who they paid to kill some of the street kids are, strictly speaking, no better than the latter...but it's just the way things happen.
On the other hand - think I've already said this, with different words - the “most wanted” drug lords all started out as aggressive and dangerous street kids. Stealing only, to survive is one thing...and in the 'circumstances', understandable but not acceptable...but when the stealing goes wrong, and the victims are killed, what then?
Then, when/if the criminals (kids, or not) are captured, the Human Rights people rush to the police precincts to make sure they are not maltreated....what about the victims ? Ah, they're already dead, forget about them.
@Stink the chimp
Go back to your bottle...
“but it's just the way things happen”
Jan 27th, 2018 - 11:29 pm - Link - Report abuse +1I imagine the street kids say the same, and given their society and authorities (the police) are more likely to murder them than protect them, it's hard to say they are wrong.
“the “most wanted” drug lords all started out as aggressive and dangerous street kids.”
Guess beating up people for money and dodging police and death squads is good training. What happens to the rest of the street kids? They all get killed, or end up in jail, or become minor criminals? There must be organisations and charities that try to help them and get them off the streets.
And those human rights people aren't doing a very job, judging by the number of suspects shot by police and the men who were beheaded in prison.
@DT
Jan 28th, 2018 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Defending the street kids' actions, as if they had no other option - to crime - is a far stretch...if it isn't, then why aren't all por kids criminals ? You choose to ignore the choices the kids made for themselves before hitting the streets, and then being almost obliged to steal in order to survive...
There are some private organizations that try to help them, but I don't know what their success rate is in getting them off the streets and to managing to re-socialize them, but the main 'help' is provided by a 'kind of' State run juvenile reformatory....by what one sees and hears about them, they are crime schools, and the few who are in there for lesser crimes, find it hard to protect themselves unless they join up with the ones who are already hard-core. Separating them is the obvious option, but that rarely happens.
If you're going to ask me if I think that's the way (for the State) to run these places, or allow what goes on inside them, my answer is a big NO...but as I said, the State does not prioritize them, and at the same time creates far bigger social problems.
I know that you cannot believe that things can actually be so bad here, in terms of street and organized crime, but it's the reality.
As far as cops getting killed goes, in Rio there's one killed every 48 hours. No one except their families care, and definitely not the HR activists. The beheadings in prison are the doings of other inmates, as virtually all the large prisons or penitentiaries in Brazil are dominated by rival crime factions (PCC, CV), and when they get a chance, they go on killing sprees. If they do that to each other, just imagine what they are capable of when not behind bars.
“I know that you cannot believe that things can actually be so bad here”
Jan 29th, 2018 - 12:03 am - Link - Report abuse +2Yeah, I can look at the numbers and read about it but that's not the same as experiencing it. It's equally hard to imagine what it's like for street kids though...
Children don't generally choose to live on the streets unless their life is pretty intolerable at home, and as you say, once they are there they don't have many choices. Shame the state-run places are like that, but not very surprising, and I think you've said it's the same with the adult prisons. The crime problem is so bad in Brazil it makes normal solutions difficult, and the authorities have obviously lost control in many cases. Guess they need to address the root causes but those are always the most difficult.
@DT
Jan 29th, 2018 - 05:58 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Crime has become a vicious circle here, just feeding off itself and getting worse.
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