MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Rio's military intervention questioned following the killing of a popular councilor and activist
Crying, chanting and screaming in anger, thousands gathered in front of the Rio de Janeiro state legislature on Thursday to say goodbye to a black city councilwoman shot in the head four times, a brazen murder that shocked Brazil and raised questions about the effectiveness of a military intervention in the country's second biggest city. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesSo the police will away with silencing a vocal critic, no need to wonder why no one has any faith in them. Apparently the UN is examining the issue.
Mar 16th, 2018 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse -2“Killing of Rio de Janeiro Councilwoman Critical of Police Rattles Brazil”
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/15/world/americas/killing-of-rio-de-janeiro-councilwoman-critical-of-police-rattles-brazil.html
Rio's military intervention? Does it look more like support & cooperation [with the cartels+corrupt]?
Mar 16th, 2018 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse +1Here's the true nature of Brazilian's real power showing its customary cruelty and contempt for anyone opposed to their objectives.
Mar 16th, 2018 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Favela-raised Marielle Franco was a fearless feminist activist who denounced the violence unleashed by the Brazilian government through its police forces and the militarization of Rio de Janeiro state.
She had been elected to the City Council in 2016 with more than 46,000 votes, “a remarkable showing for a fresh face in the ballot,” noted the New York Times. Her remarkable performance makes her murder cannot be dismissed as one more casualty of the violence increased since the military intervention in Rio de Janeiro.
The assassins showed remarkable sophistication by following Franco's vehicle and targeting her through a tinted window.
Let's now watch Michel Temer's diligence investigating this crime--don't hold your breath though.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/15/world/americas/killing-of-rio-de-janeiro-councilwoman-critical-of-police-rattles-brazil.html
At this moment it is still not clear who ordered her execution.....but of course, Terry the Liar has stated it was the POELEECE, so it must have been....and sure, the UN is going to be invaluable in the investigation...what BS !
Mar 16th, 2018 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse +1And quite frankly, to even insinuate that the military might have anything to do with it, 'sounds' ridiculous....they were asked to intervene in order to protect exactly the same people that the councillor was speaking for.....and just for the info of the less-informed, a recent poll indicated that over 80% of the residents in Vila Kennedy are in favour of the intervention....despite the fact that it is still too soon to have produced the desired results.
@EM
And since when is it the president of the country's job to investigate the crime ?? Suppose that the local police, the Federal Police and other intelligence agencies should be ignored...
And what remarkable sophistication is there in following a car and then spraying it with machine gun fire ???? happens here every day...
The news people seem to be reading, and BELIEVING, is insinuating that the problems in Rio only started AFTER the military intervention ? OF COURSE, we all forget that Rio was always the safest city in the southern hemisphere, and that the military only went there to tan themselves on the beach...
Reekie, you are watching too many cartoons...
Whoever did it, it's a damn shame. It sounds like she was doing good work, and it's not like talent is so common that Brazil can afford to lose it.
Mar 16th, 2018 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And what's the chance of the crime being solved when even the government think the police may be involved? They always protect their own people.
JB, what are these 'milicias' you mentioned in the other thread? Any relation to the death squads of the past?
REF: “The killing of Marielle Franco in Rio de Janeiro has become a focus for public anger”:
Mar 17th, 2018 - 10:15 am - Link - Report abuse +1https://www.ft.com/content/e36ecdce-2930-11e8-b27e-cc62a39d57a0
It's GOOD TO KNOW that:
#1: The masses are FINALLY waking up; as far as the violence is concerned
#2: And as far as the corruption [AND the protection of the corrupt] is concerned - well, NEVER mind.
Latest rumours have it that Marielle (born and raised in the “favela do Maré”) was elected councillor with financial aide of Rio's largest criminal faction, “Comando Vermelho”, in exchange for future favours (if elected)...They control the drug ('n weapons) trade in Rio, and as she supposedly did not deliver, but actually started criticizing the “CV”, it executed her, the usual punishment for whom they consider traitors. The investigations should clarify that.
Mar 17th, 2018 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And, as expected, the PT is doing what it can to cash in on her death. In a note published yday they claim :
“The persecution of our comrade Lula happens in the middle of the escalation of authoritarianism in the country, in which all social movements are repressed, teachers beaten, universities attacked, artists censored, politicized sectors of the Judiciary act irresponsibly, and the illegitimate government, demagogically and irresponsibly, resorts to militarizing areas under the traditional jurisdiction of the civilians. At each violation of individual 'n collective rights, the government imposes the rule of exception in the country, hidden behind the speech of hate and intolerance”.
And it goes on to blame the government, 'n the military for “Comrade Marielle's death”, for the 'criminalization' of the poor, the blacks, the women, the adolescents, the LGBT groups and all the militants of social & leftist movements...They also claim that in this “opressive atmosphere”, the illegitimate government has done away with historical rights of the workers, as well as social conquests of the PT, and is even trying to abolish the symbol of these conquests, the “bolsa família”.
It unites all of the PT's lies in one big paragraph, the claims of which are so absurd, any level-headed person would be able to destroy their deceitful arguments, one by one.
@DT
The 'milicias' are groups of cops 'n ex-cops, originally formed to combat the drug dealers, but in the end became their rivals for power in the slums.
@JB
Mar 18th, 2018 - 01:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0It should be easy to check where her campaign financing came from, but I don't feel all that confident we will ever learn the truth.
What's this 'rule of exception' the PT were referring to? I suppose the government has 'done away with the historical rights of the workers' by reforming the labour laws that dated from before WWII. Doesn't necessarily mean they have changed for the worse though.
Why did the cops end up becoming criminals themselves? Corruption once they realised how much money the gangs were making?
”In virtually every city across Brazil, tens of thousands of people gathered to mourn the loss of (Marielle Franco) such a virtuous symbol of hope,“ wrote Glenn Greenwald, whose husband was elected to Rio's Council at the same time as Marielle.
Mar 18th, 2018 - 03:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0”But they also assembled to register their disgust and outrage over the real culprits responsible for her death: the Brazilian elite political and economic class that has gorged itself on corruption and the rotted fruits of massive inequality while the rest of the country is left to fend for itself in a climate of violence, rampant lawlessness, police abuse, and soul-destroying poverty.“ Greenwald also wrote.
Marielle was one of those few special human beings who was raised in poverty but managed to get an education.
”In 2002, she entered the Pontifical Catholic University of Rio de Janeiro on a scholarship and continued working and raising her daughter as she earned a degree in social sciences.” (Wiki).
However, she did not turn her back on the poor and vulnerable.
”She went on to earn a master's degree in public administration from the Fluminense Federal University (and) wrote her master's thesis (titled “UPP: The Decline of the Favela in Three Letters”) on the law enforcement program to retake control of the city's favelas from gangs.“
Marielle,of Afro-American descent, raised in a favela, was part of the LGTB community and a member of the leftist PSOL party. She was too much of a promise.
”As she did for so many people across Rio, Marielle became a critical inspiration...in a country in which racism, economic inequality, and prejudices of all sorts remain a toxic force, (but) all unjust walls can be breached,” wrote Greenwald.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/marielle-franco-death-dead-dies-brazil-assassination-rio-de-janeiro-protest-glenn-greenwald-a8259516.html
Brazil’s Jaw-Dropping Corruption Scandal Comes to Netflix: REF:
Mar 18th, 2018 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/16/arts/television/mechanism-netflix-brazil-jose-padilha.html
@EM
Mar 18th, 2018 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Damn, that just makes it even worse.
“Most of all, the country is left to try to find a way to ensure that this does not become yet another episode that reinforces the long-standing truth that violent factions are free to murder anyone with impunity. Their challenge is to ensure, instead, that Franco’s death is not in vain, by using it to galvanise thousands and tens of thousands of new Marielles, inspired by her singularly potent example.”
We can hope.
@DT:
Mar 18th, 2018 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “violent factions are free to murder anyone with impunity”:
Yes! WITHOUT appearing to be cynical: Beyond ANY doubt, The violent factions - with IMMUNITY which is granted to them by the political leaders - ARE free to murder anyone [especially, the troublemakers!]
@DT
Mar 18th, 2018 - 05:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It should be easy to check where her campaign financing came from...”.....Exactly. Decided to look into it : apparently, info points to about 40% of her votes coming from the better neighbourhoods in southern and western Rio, the rest being spread around, with only a few 100 votes originating in the 'favelas' (Maré, Cidade de Deus and Rocinha) where it was initially presumed most of her backing had come from....which is good news, nevertheless she was stepping on the toes of the drug gangs and the 'milicias'...my bet is on the latter, and that the 'government / military had absolutely “nothing” to do with it, as the PT are (deceitfully) trying to make everyone believe.
The 'milicias' soon realized there was more money to be made by turning to crime themselves, than just trying to protect the people in the favelas, who apparently, at least initially, contributed willingly to the 'cause'.. Her death seems to have united the left (which traditionally fights amongst itself, even to see which end of the egg to break) and the right, at least momentarily, against the ultra conservatives, which appear to be radically against any progress in the area of civil rights. Regardless of any conclusive evidence, some groups are already rushing to accuse the elites and the government for her death....I think that's taking the conspiracy theory a bit too far.....the cause was closer to home, IMO.
“Rule of exception” is my way of saying when power is removed from the civilians,
and stricter rules are imposed on the people...which is hardly the case in Rio, given the situation prior to intervention, as well as the support received from the people, after.
The situation in Rio, and to a slightly lesser extent in a few NE States, shows what happens when the politicians omit themselves, instead dedicating their efforts towards corruption. It's easy to see the writing on the wall, but looks like most prefer to ignore it.
JB's attempts to mud the waters on Marielle Franco's record are disgusting.
Mar 18th, 2018 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse -1”Latest rumours have it that Marielle (born and raised in the “favela do Maré”) was elected councillor with financial aide of Rio's largest criminal faction...“ notes perversely Jack.
Of course. So, never mind that Marielle worked tirelessly in defense of the poor and the vulnerable, and never mind Marielle's impressive personal growth and achievements.
No sir. Why? 'Cause according to ”latest rumours” (a solid source no doubt) her council election campaign would have been financed by a criminal organization. Right on, Jack! You have just saved MP readers from being in the dark forever.
Next, our well-informed Jack points to ”about 40% of (Marielle's) votes coming from the better neighbourhoods in southern and western Rio, the rest being spread around, with only a few 100 votes originating in the 'favelas.'
“Which is good news,” notes Jack, apparently backing off on his audacious initial claim.
Nevertheless, concludes smart Jack, “she was stepping on the toes of the drug gangs and the 'milicias'...”
As a result, notes Jack finally coming to his point, ”my bet is...that the 'government / military had absolutely “nothing” to do with it, as the PT are (deceitfully) trying to make everyone believe.”
We could not have expected any better from Jack.
@EM
Mar 18th, 2018 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse +1I'm sorry, but are you really that stupid ? I am NOT trying to MUD any waters...what a drama queen you have become !! merely mentioned a rumour that circulated in some of the media (do you even know what a 'rumour' is ?), not that I believed it...even though it was a possibility, based on the notorious fact that in past years, the PCC (in SP) and the CV (in Rio) - criminal factions, in case you don't know - have sponsored political careers in exchange for favours ;
Wherever did I criticize her social work ? you must be daft . Where I wrote “The investigations should clarify that”, read “the investigations will clarify whether the rumour is correct, or NOT”...savvy ?
Reekie, your bent for drama is quite impressive....suggesting that I'm backtracking on what I never stated as a 'fact', but simply presented as a possibility - as rumored by the press - and expected to be clarified by the investigations, is ludicrous...if you see 'darkness' everywhere, must be because that is where YOU are.
The fact she was stepping on the toes of the 'gentlemen' I mentioned, is fact... the possibility of her having been executed by the 'milicias' because of it, is still only a possibility, and the insinuation that the elites / government ordered her execution is silly speculation ....Re “Which is good news”, and where her votes came from, don't you realize I was speaking well of her ? a good thing that she was NOT voted in by the 'favela residents', under pressure from drug gangs and /or the milicias ? NO, you don't because you always interpret what you want....I took no sides, but you - erroneously - presumed I had... sad..
I did criticize the PT for trying to cash in on her death, in the same way Lula
used his wife's wake to promote a political rally....but I suppose you are too 'thick' to realize that.
Last of all, instead of just transcribing what anyone can access on the internet, why don't you post some 'interesting' opinions, for a change ?
Come on, Jack. Spreading a rumour is as devious as creating it and you know it.
Mar 18th, 2018 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not only that: conveying unconfirmed rumours insinuates things without taking responsibility for it--exactly as you did in your latest post:
“I never stated as a 'fact', but simply presented as a possibility.”
Indeed: using rumour to create doubt without taking responsibility for it, not only is unfair--it's malicious and must be put in question.
You wrote: ”I did criticize the PT for trying to cash in on (Marielle's) death...“
So according to you the PT should remain silent about Marielle's assassination and, if it protests, is because it's because the PT is trying to cash in on her death? What should they do then, according to your informed opinion?
As for ”instead of just transcribing (from) the internet, why don't you post some 'interesting' opinions, for a change?” I do both, I choose when I do one or the other, realizing you will like none of them.
@EM
Mar 18th, 2018 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse +1C'mon Reekie... I'm “spreading” a rumour ? IF I were in Rio, and IF I was working for the press, then perhaps yes...BUT as a poster on here, simply referring to the rumour, based on a hypothesis raised by a few journalists, then NO. Those who raised the hypothesis must take responsibility. I did not create the news, true, or false. So how do you conclude I'm spreading rumours by mentioning the opinions of a few journalists ?
If I had any such intention to denigrate her image, I might have said, “and I'm pretty sure, by what I know, she was elected by the criminal factions”...see what I mean, you have the habit of interpreting what you want...and most of the time, you - unfortunately - get it wrong.
No I don't think the PT or any other party for that matter, should ignore her death, but to use it politically, to criticize your political adversaries - without the slightest proof of what you are claiming - that yes, is “malicious” and “must be put in question”..but of course, you love and defend the PT, so you wouldn't see it as anything wrong. It's commonly known as 'misinforming', with the intent of gaining an advantage.
To lament her death is one thing....pinning it on whoever you feel like, with no proof and the intent to deceive, is something else...but you can't tell the difference, can you ?
Re your last, self-deprecating comment “realizing you will like none of them”, that is not always what has happened....I think I've agreed with you on occasion, but when I don't agree with your opinion, or you try to twist my words, I have no problem in telling you to piss off.
But just fyi, over the last 2 days I have read and seen (TV) dozens of reports on Marielle, and her political trajectory, which have given me no motive to resent her, so why would I try to lie about her ?
And for once, if you going to bother to answer my questions, please do it in a direct fashion.
@EM
Mar 18th, 2018 - 10:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the article you linked, Greenwald blames the elite for leaving “the rest of the country to fend for itself in a climate of violence, rampant lawlessness, police abuse, and soul-destroying poverty.”
Not for ordering her murder themselves. In fact, he wrote this:
“Days before her assassination, she went to Acari, a sprawling Rio slum, to protest recent murders by one of the city’s most notoriously violent and lawless police battalions. What makes it difficult to determine exactly who killed Franco was precisely her bravery: she was a threat to so many violent, corrupt, and powerful factions that the list of possible suspects, with motives to want her dead, is a long one.”
So suspecting the gangs, or the milicias, or the police themselves is perfectly reasonable.
@JB
I was going to ask you why it was 'good news' that her votes didn't come from the favelas. Are you saying they are forced to vote one way or another by the gangs? How do they prove who they voted for, once in the booth?
And your rule of exception sounds something like the state of emergency that was declared in France after the terrorist attack, giving the government extra powers. I thought the military were basically just taking over the job of the police in Rio, because the police are overwhelmed. Is there more to it than that?
@DT
Mar 19th, 2018 - 03:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't pretend to have privileged information on Marielle Franco's death--she is a notorious case, but most of those who advocate for social change in Brazil endure risk, many are killed and most of those murders are never solved.
Marielle's execution happened in the midst of an army intervention supposedly charged with restoring order in Rio.
As reported by The Rio Times: ”(Marielle) was a human rights activist and favela-community resident who recently was chosen by the city’s legislature to monitor the military intervention issued by President Michel Temer for the state of Rio de Janeiro.“
http://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/rio-politics/ammunition-which-killed-rio-lawmaker-stolen-from-police/
In such context, even if a material author is found, the ones who gave the orders to kill Marielle will most probably escape punishment.
”So suspecting the gangs, or the milicias, or the police themselves is perfectly reasonable,” you wrote. I agree. All three are often indistinguishable, frequently allied and the result of Brazil's sharp divide between the haves and the haves not.
For many years, the preferred solution to marginalization has been sending police members to summarily execute street kids, many of whom do commit petty crimes.
However, the conditions that allow gangs, milicias or the police to operate in such a state of lawlessness and quotidien violence is the result of the state disinterest in front of the marginalization of wide strates of the Brazilian society. Those who support the status quo, in my opinion, are the real guilty parties not only in Marielle's killing but in thousands of senseless, violent, premature deaths.
@DT:
Mar 19th, 2018 - 10:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “Are you saying they are forced to vote one way or another by the gangs? How do they prove who they voted for, once in the booth?”:
Going to such lengths is not at all necessary!
The cheating at the booth does not and need not take place. It can happen when the pen-drive in which the details of the voting are saved; leaves the polling station and reaches the relevant department where the votes are counted. THAT's where the bargaining can take place [money x number of votes] amongst the candidates. And obviously, the candidate who prefers to receive money also prefers to lose in an election.
PS: Pl. read “DOES” in place of “can”
@EM & JB
Mar 19th, 2018 - 10:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Can we at least all agree that it's a damn shame someone who was trying to fight against the violence and improve people's lives was killed, and the elite who are more interested in lining their pockets than doing anything to improve the country are to blame for letting the crime, gangs and violence get out of control, whichever group of armed thugs actually arranged and carried out her murder?
@ :o))
Surely that sort of election fraud could happen even in the 'good' neighbourhoods? Just needs some corrupt officials to allow it. How would they know where a candidate's votes came from anyway, are they recorded by area?
@DT
Mar 19th, 2018 - 02:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “Can we at least all agree..........get out of control”: Everything is Well Organized & under Total Control of those fortunate elites who need more AND more; just to make the two ends meet. But That's NOT at all shameful!
REF: “That sort of election fraud could happen even in the good neighborhoods”:
Yes, why not? There isn't any “Holy Land”!
REF: “Just needs some corrupt officials to allow it”:
There isn't any shortage of those either!
REF: “Are they recorded by area”:
Area-Wise very carefully Recorded & Organized for the negotiations soon after the election!
Aren't you tempted to be a politician? I'm not qualified. ;(
@DT
Mar 19th, 2018 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“…'good news' votes didn't come from favelas”…because IF they had, it’d reinforce the idea criminal factions backed her, as a few journalists suggested (b4 her votes were mapped 'n divulged). Favela residents are usually coerced by the gangs and the mere suspicion they disobeyed, could result in death…if criminals back a candidate, who loses, it’s easy to check why (due to nbr of voters in a ‘favela’ and only 50,000 votes being needed), and retaliate. Remember, 99% of ‘favela’ residents live in fear of the gangs.
‘State of emergency’, that’s it…; Despite the military having overall command of police forces in Rio, has not taken over their job ; they carry w/ investigations (intelligence), normal patrolling; the military stepped in to show force and to prevent criminal factions from acting freely, as until recently; But IMO, just patrolling the streets, while perhaps intimidating the gangs, will not destroy them ; the only reason crime has escalated to what it is, is because the State (Rio & Federal) has been absent for years, allowing the factions to grow, becoming a powerful parallel force ; according to reports, under USD 1,000 has been ‘invested’ in the Rio police force since 2016.
Fully agree it IS a damned shame that she, and dozens of others, in many locations, are killed for trying to stand up for the lesser privileged, and that this has a lot to do with the state’s absence in public security.
And yes, votes are recorded by area - each polling booth has a determined nbr of voters, who belong to a specific district, so tracking votes, where from and qtty wise is easy. Although Reekie didn’t answer any of my questions – directly – his words more or less admit he agrees with me, but not before squeezing in some of his biased opinions. Truth is, IF ‘outlaw’ police forces are responsible, they WILL be caught, NO ‘direct’ link to “Brazil's sharp divide between haves 'n have-nots”; “sending police members to summarily execute street kids” isn't State policy.
@JB
Mar 19th, 2018 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I suppose if gangs know the vote in each area, they don't need to care how individual people voted. They can just punish the whole community if their favoured candidate doesn't win. And that explains why she got so few votes in the favelas, since she opposed those gangs. I thought that was strange.
I wasn't sure how the voting worked, since it evidently isn't the same as here, where each district elects one councillor and the parties choose which candidate will stand where. Sounds like everyone can vote for any candidate in Rio.
“But IMO, just patrolling the streets, while perhaps intimidating the gangs, will not destroy them”
It doesn't seem to have done much good, and some people think it's just making things worse. But what would help, at this point?
“IF ‘outlaw’ police forces are responsible, they WILL be caught”
I really hope you're right. And sending the police to execute street kids may not be state policy, but they don't seem to have done much to prevent it.
@JB
Mar 20th, 2018 - 11:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “just patrolling the streets, while perhaps intimidating the gangs, will not destroy them”:
The fundamental idea is NOT to destroy them but to protect the mutual “Business-Interests”!!! How else, are the leaders going to receive their commission:
- On the sales of drugs/arms/stolen goods
- On each and every product AND service [including electricity, gas, water, phone, etc] offered to the slums
Besides, the leaders also need their support to Organize the manifestations & Demonstrations during the political rallies AND protection [If you name ONE corrupt who was shot at or killed (mysteriously); THAT'll be an exception!]
@DT
Mar 20th, 2018 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In Brazil, the parties designate their candidates, and then it's up to the individual voters to pick those of their preference (direct elections).
I wouldn't say that the military's presence in the streets of Rio has made things worse, but it still hasn't produced the desired results...they are still only patrolling the streets and main avenues...think their presence may have reduced the robbery of trucks loaded with cargo which was around 30 cases per day (on the highways, as they enter or leave Rio). Up to now the military has not gone “into” the middle of the 'favelas', so the shootouts between the gangs, and the gangs v. the police, carry on, over a dozen a day, with several deaths, incuding those caused by stray bullets.
About 7 or 8 yrs ago the military actually raided a few of the most dangerous 'favelas', but all they managed was to push the criminals out the other side...after the military moved on, the criminals returned. One such raid was filmed by TV crews from helicopters, and you could see, literally hundreds of criminals fleeing like ants into the wooded areas on the other side of the 'favela'. Then the military and the police went from house to house, finding large stashes of drugs, and loads of military assault-rifles, ammunition and grenades.
IMO, they could circle the 'favela' (without prior warning), then move in with the police, heavily armed, capturing, or killing the criminals that don't surrender. Sounds like 'war',
but that is exactly what it is.
Before the military intervention, the police used to up into the heart of the 'favelas', but the gangs' firepower made their incursions useless.
The truth is that Rio has been lawless for years, and getting worse, especially in the last decade, and that has encouraged certain groups to take the law into their own hands....and, allowing the criminals to occupy the spaces abandoned by the State.
@JB
Mar 21st, 2018 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It does sound like war, and with all the problems of fighting in a city full of civilians. I think your 'encircling the favela' idea would result in a large number of innocent people being killed along with the criminals. Seems like they need to work with the people in the favelas (a large number of whom must be sick of the violence), to identify the criminals and take them out more precisely, but that would be a slow process. Then you still need to deal with the causes of crime, eg, if you lock up all the drug dealers, the organisations will just recruit more, and soon you are back where you started.
I assumed the point of bringing in the military was to supply extra manpower - and firepower - that the police lacked. So why are the military not going into favelas at all, if the police were?
@DT
Mar 21st, 2018 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Seems you realize the futility of combatting the gangs, conventionally.. all I can say is that drastic situations, drastic solutions....turning the population against the criminals I think has already been achieved, but ratting them out is a bit more risky.
The Rio police (as in other States) is poorly trained 'n badly equipped, when (several are) not criminals themselves. Yes, the army's presence is to boost manpower, but up to now has only had the effect of slight intimidation. If the army were to raid the favela, things would get really nasty...for the criminals and innocent residents alike....a tough decision. With the military taking over the patrolling the strrets, presume the idea is to increase the number of police that can then go inside the 'favela'.
(Cont. of “CF and cronies……….”
As well...although Temer tried to give the impression (his visit to Carmen Lucia, STF president) was for something else, it’s clear why he went …to apply pressure; nevertheless, discrete in comparison to the PT's unfriendly visit Carmen Lucia , days earlier ;
Agree, multinationals, anywhere in the world, flex their economic muscle when it suits them.
Re schools in the 60's, and today, that's about it. There are a few “Brazilian” equivalents to Eton and Harrow, although in direct comparison don’t know how they would do...some State and privately owned universities rank pretty well worldwide (100th to 200th) and have int’l recognition. (accdng to a study I read a few years ago). The old top private schools are now considered international schools (updated curriculums, modern teaching techniques, strict discipline), and originally catered to specific nationalities (Germans, Italians, Americans, British). They're run the same way they would be in their countries of origin...which translates into big fees, most can't afford. “Makes sense, but apparently your politicians don't agree. It's a shame”.
Our politics attracts the worst people from all social classes.
“If the army were to raid the favela, things would get really nasty...for the criminals and innocent residents alike....a tough decision.”
Mar 21st, 2018 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, and one that perhaps the people most affected should have a bigger say in, than those in the 'good' neighbourhoods.
“With the military taking over the patrolling the strrets, presume the idea is to increase the number of police that can then go inside the 'favela'.”
That makse sense, but has it done that? You'd think a country with such a big crime problem would spend a little more on training and equipping the police. It's obvious they are overwhelmed and their response (more police killings) is just making things worse.
RE Carmen Lucia, so both parties are doing the same thing, Temer is just more subtle about it... that's not exactly a recommendation.
And I'm surprised there aren't cheaper private schools in Brazil if the public education is really that bad. I guess the international schools are expensive (and I met some people who went to them, when I was at Uni), but you could probably run a school with a decent standard of teaching for much less.
“Our politics attracts the worst people from all social classes.”
And trying to change the status quo isn't always a healthy option, as this article shows...
REF: Elections & Democracy:
Mar 22nd, 2018 - 08:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0'Estamos indo para o Brasil':
https://oglobo.globo.com/mundo/estamos-indo-para-brasil-diz-diretor-da-cambridge-analytica-22510961?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=O%20Globo
@DT
Mar 22nd, 2018 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“the military taking over patrolling the strerets, presume the idea is to increase the number of police that can then go inside the 'favela'.”
Currently the police aren't much of a match for the gang's heavy firepower, but the intervention effort has promised to fix that...The politicians - who ”should” be concerned with the increasing rate of crime, live in a relatively protected area (Brasília), so they don't have much incentive to allocate funds for security in the Federal budget. Some States, which recently received additional Federal funds, to invest in security (to train, equip police forces, build or improve prisons), just spent the money elsewhere....and those governors (mainly NE) just shrug their shoulders as if they'd done nothing wrong....the culture HAS to change.
Would like to point out that while the police DO sometimes over react and kill some innocents, no one seems to remember 1) the environment in which they work, all psyched-up and knowing they can be killed, 2) the shootouts nearly always start when the police have to defend themselves against the gangs' gun-fire...and those caught in the middle are who suffer most, 3) that many cops too, are killed in the line of duty, or off-duty, when they are targeted for assassination...but the so-called 'human-rights' activists only defend the criminals, as if they were the innocent party....what about the victims ? well, they are dead and the cops don't count.
That's why I said previously that the institutions are not solid enough....they should not allow outside interference, nor outside influence. Today, the STF will be ruling on Lula's HC...only because Lula's lawyers, and some of the STF judges have pressured Carmen Lucia to put it on the agenda...in other words, getting around the law approved by the STF in 2016 (jail after being condemned by the appelate court ), to benefit Lula....the session should start at 4 pm.
There are many cheaper private schools, but they aren't 'top'.
@JB:
Mar 23rd, 2018 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “Currently the police aren't much of a match for the gang's heavy firepower,”:
NEITHER DO THE ARMED FORCES!
DEFINITELY, the cartels DO have:
- BETTER forces
- BETTER training
- BETTER arms
- BETTER equipment
- BETTER discipline
- BETTER organization
- BETTER communication
- BETTER understanding
- BETTER disguise
- BETTER guts
- BETTER terrain
- BETTER incentives
- BETER protection
- BETTER sympathetic support [from who else?]
- BETTER Back-Up
- BETTER everything ELSE!
Against the armed forces, the Cartels ARE far BETTER at each and EVERY aspect of a war! Does anyone still have at least a dim hope that ONE fine day, the crooks will DEFINITELY be overcome?
@JB
Mar 23rd, 2018 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I always wondered why the capital was Brasilia and not Rio or somewhere. However, I doubt it would bother the politicians much if they did live there. They'd just live in gated off neighbourhoods with guards, and escape to the countryside when they wanted.
I do understand why the police act as they do, when they have such a difficult and dangerous job, and are generally under-equipped and under-trained. I daresay some of them are corrupt, but others are doing the best they can in difficult circumstances, and it's the circumstances that need to change to improve the situation. Nevertheless, it's a serious problem because at some point they stop being a force for the law and keeping the peace, and become just another gang fighting it out with the others. Following the laws, and being accountable for their actions, is what distinguishes them from the criminals.
I agree about the institutions. Neither 'side' should be able to influence them in that way, much less try to intimidate the judges. But if the law says you should be jailed after being condemned by the appellate court, why is Lula not in jail now?
@DT:
Mar 24th, 2018 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “why is Lula not in jail now?”:
Do you REALLY want to know?
Just like the rest of the crooks, he too is innocent, since there is NO concrete proof, as the law needs!
So, now they are trying to find some sort of invoice or a receipt [official-document which - beyond any doubt - is a 100% proof of the transactions] of the “Commission-Payments”! AND The Day they receive such a 100% proof, it will still not be admissible by the court and he may still be considered as “innocent”. Or else; he may be “jailed” with all the glory AND comfort, either in a 5-Star jail or in his own luxurious triplex!
@DT
Mar 24th, 2018 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...“wondered why the capital was Brasilia, not Rio”......Good question, with a simple answer, with two versions : the official one 'n the truth. The official one, President Juscelino Kubitschek, at the height of the cold war, apparently concerned that Guanabara (tiny coastal area inside Rio, thus 'Bay of Guanabara'), the then Federal capital, was vulnerable to attack, and therefore had to be relocated inland. Thus the creation of Brasilia, in the State of Goias.
The real reason for the relocation, and the building of a complete new capital - an enooormous project, which consumed billions - was good ole corruption ; JK, when he became president, was an Army doctor, when he left the presidency 4 years later, he was rich doctor. My father knew one of the building contractors, and according to him, just to give one example, a truck loaded with sand , or cement, would enter the gate of the building site, be counted, to then drive out the other side, still loaded, and come back in again...repeated several times with each truck...everyone got their share, including Congressional members who had to agree to the relocation. In the beginning though, after Brasilia was inaugurated (1960), the politicians weren't too excited about moving to Brasília ... after all, leave the sunny beaches of Rio behind them, for some city in the middle of nowhere ? That was when the absurd benefits started being offered to them, to entice them to move.
The appellate court (TRF-4) will rule on Lula's appeal (to be acquitted of all charges of the 1st case) this Monday 26th. A law approved by the STF in 2016, stipulates that defendants, convicted in lower court, then the appellate court (unanimously), need to start serving the sentence immy after the appeal to the appellate court is denied...but, as we've only just seen, the STF has guaranteed his freedom, until they judge his HC, on the 4th of April....the STF disrespecting a law they themselves approved 2 yrs ago.
@JB:
Mar 25th, 2018 - 10:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “the STF disrespecting a law they themselves approved 2 yrs ago”:
The explanation:
They jest CHANGED their minds. So what's WRONG?:
https://i0.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Brasil-inquisidor.jpg?resize=580%2C306&ssl=1
Heh, that does seem like a silly reason, I wondered if it was something like Australia where they built Canberra because Sidney and Melbourne both wanted to be the capital and wouldn't agree to the other having the honour, or Belize where Belize city was hit by hurricane so they decided to build a new capital inland. In that case almost no one bothered moving; Belize is such a small country they can just get the bus to work in the new city.
Mar 25th, 2018 - 12:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And I didn't know the corruption was so bad even back then. Has it always been this way since... I don't even know, since independence?
Guess we'll find out what happens to Lula soon then. Is he the only former politician who has been convicted so far? (I assume no current ones have been, because of the immunity.)
@DT
Mar 25th, 2018 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I don't even know, since independence?”... Way before independence (1822)...the first 30 years after discovery (1500) not much happened ; the Portuguese Crown was content to hang onto Brazil without trying to develop it.
In time, a few small towns popped up, and that's when the Crown started to take an interest, but realized that the only way to get rich traders and/or the aristocracy to establish themselves in Brazil, was to offer privileges and benefits.
In 1534, the King divided Bzl into 21 strips, from the east coast, to the west, up to the imaginary line created by the Treaty of Tordesilhas, giving them to his most trusted friends, in effect creating hereditary feuds.
By 1550, the system had failed, except for two : 1 in the NE, 1 SE), so in 1549 the king appointed a Governor General, loyal to the Crown. By then, the local aristocracy was formed, creating social classes : 20% formed by rich traders (and later, slave traders), the original big landowners, the military, the Church, judges…the other 80% were slaves, Indians, free-whites and the poor. The top class, accustomed to having power, and the means to exert it, resorted to bribery when necessary.
The economy centered around sugar cane (mainly in the NE), tobacco ‘n cotton. With the dominant few, corruption and power was much the same thing.
In 1808, when the Royal family fled to Brazil (Napoleon threatening to invade Portugal), the Regent King (Dom João VI), found a ‘divided’ Brazil , sometimes being challenged by the aristocracy – most loyal to the Crown, but loath to have someone dictate the rules to them. D. João left in 1821, leaving his son, Dom Pedro I in charge, but answering to Portugal. In 1822, D. Pedro declared independence, which Portugal eventually recognized.
So corruption here, goes back 100s of years.
There are several ex-politicians (who lost their immunity when removed by Congress) doing time - most from the PT and a few from the MDB 'n other (allied) parties.
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!