Lula challenges conviction arguing “proven bias” of Brazil's next Justice minister

Jack Bauer

““proven his bias” by accepting a cabinet post under a political rival”.

“proven his bias” ? Hilarious.

Let's see :

When did Moro sentence Lula to 9 years in jail ? in July 2017 .....14 months ago.

When did the TRF-4, which Moro is not part of, reconfirm the sentence and increased it to 12 years ? in January 2018.....9 months ago.

Where and when exactly did Moro and Bolsonaro accidentally meet for the first and only time ?
At the airport, while waiting for their respectice flights, in March 2018.....7 months ago.

When did Bolsonaro invite Moro to be Minister of Justice in the new government ?
A few weeks ago.

So, the Lularat is going to try to convince the STF, that when Moro convicted him, 14 months ago, that Moro and Bolsonaro were already conspiring to put him away ?

Ridiculous, but that is exactly how the PT operates, invent some BS and then explore it politically.....so predictable.

Nov 06th, 2018 - 09:12 pm - Link - +1

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:o))

Will Lullu & the other crooks be made to return the stolen wealth or will Brazil continue to waste more money to keep these crooks imprisoned - that's the question!

Nov 07th, 2018 - 03:26 pm - Link - +1

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Jack Bauer

:o))
Good question.....no answer.....yet.
WHEN / IF Bolsonaro opens up the BNDES' black box, I suspect that the investigation will bring a lot of sh*t to the surface.....billions in loans to foreign countries (mainly those governed by Lula's 'friends'), at interest rates unheard of, or free-of-interest - remember the link that circulated 2 or 3 years ago, referring to “as obras concluídas do PT - fora do Brasil” ?? - , the pardoning of some African countries' debts with Brazil, amounting to a few 100 million dollars ? A gift from Lula, at the Brazilians' expense.
There's enough corruption in Brazil to keep its prosecutors & judges occupied for centuries.

Nov 08th, 2018 - 06:48 pm - Link - +1

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:o))

@JB

REF: BNDES' black box

It's more like Pandora's Box with plenty of not-so-pleasant surprises! But it also looks like with the M.T.+J.B. Alliance; the “Mystery-Box” - if at all found - perhaps may NEVER be opened [Moro or NO Moro]:
http://www.chargeonline.com.br/php/DODIA//mariano.jpg

So a logical conclusion is that in spite of an overwhelming evidence [a tiny tip of a gigantic iceberg] the convicted may probably be declared as innocent [many teams of well-known & highly paid advocates work Day & Night to prove their innocence]. Thus the corrupt will end up in paying NOTHING at all anyway - not counting the incalculable WASTE of money + efforts!

Nov 08th, 2018 - 10:21 pm - Link - +1

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Jack Bauer

@:o))
Did you see this mornings report on Globo News regarding JB's, R.Saud's arrest ? the sh*t is already in front of the fan....now, all that remains to be done, is turn the fan on...this will be the beginning of another exciting chapter in the 'novela' of Brazilian corruption, in which many PMDBistas will have the main roles...

Nov 09th, 2018 - 02:40 pm - Link - +1

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:o))

@JB

Pl. don't turn the fan on. The sh*t is about to fly around:
http://paduacampos.com.br/2012/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/sinovaldo2.jpg

Nov 09th, 2018 - 02:47 pm - Link - +1

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Jack Bauer

@:o))
As obras concluídas do PT...fora do Brasil

https://youtu.be/Jr41Rw6of9E

Nov 09th, 2018 - 06:09 pm - Link - +1

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:o))

@JB

Yes but God only knows who else are involved! As such those who could not enter into the govt. by the front gate [REF: election] are gradually, slowly & steadily entering by the back door!
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fVaagCfsY0o/S_bsgNSkvBI/AAAAAAAAAWk/Qyf6ilZvQJo/s1600/charge+duke.jpg

Nov 09th, 2018 - 08:45 pm - Link - +1

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Terence Hill

3) Operating as investigator, prosecutor and judge in his own case, and trying Lula without a jury. Although this is actually legal in Brazil, it it based on archaic law dating to the Inquisition. Moro’s role in Lula’s prosecution was literally, in a legal sense, that of Inquisitor;
6) With no material evidence connecting Lula to the apartment in question, which is still registered in the name of the construction company that built it, Moro based his entire ruling on his personal “conviction” that Lula was guilty, and one plea bargain testimony, which was changed 3 times before the convicted criminal who made it was awarded with sentence reduction, transfer to house arrest and partial retention of illicit assets”
http://www.brasilwire.com/lava-jatofascism-is-a-match-whos-the-matchmaker/

Nov 11th, 2018 - 04:00 pm - Link - -1

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:o))

@TH:

Haven't you realized that all the VIP-Crooks [less than 1% of the total (more than 2'000 of them)] who are quite comfortable in their 5-Star Cells; know a hell of a lot about their own [& the others'] involvements in various rackets?

ALL it would take to be free is the confession of the heists. But they all prefer to remain silent behind the bars and keep insisting that they all are innocent. Why?

They all fought hard [faily/unfaily] to be in power as long as possible. They did so, if not for making a quick buck, if not for making plenty of hay till the sun was shining; I wonder why else they were so reluctant to leave their seats of power.

If a person still thinks that these crooks are innocent and were there only because of their fierce patriotism and for the betterment of the lives of the masses; then it's high time that the believer weans away from his/her mom's titties.

I know. A hard evidence is missing. Of course, it's missing! Nobody in his/her right mind [unless is suicidal] would leave a Cash-Trail, Signed & Stamped Agreements for paying/receiving bribes, money-transfers & money-laundering proofs, etc, etc, etc. Any money-changer [doleiro] can explain how the operations work clandestinely and [almost] legally.

To give just one example, it's a common practice to open & operate a bank account of a non-existent or a dead person! And as far as money laundering is concerned; there aren't better places than hotels, restaurants, bars, night-clubs, churches, etc, etc, etc.
https://i0.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Doleiros.jpg?resize=640%2C526&ssl=1

Nov 11th, 2018 - 08:32 pm - Link - +1

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Terence Hill

”Likewise, he(Moro) arbitrarily sentenced Lula to 9 years in jail without coherent legal justification. 9 years is a large sentence for an act that allegedly occurred after Lula had left government and therefore could not have any quid pro quo,...During an interview with Lula’s defense lawyer Valeska Martins, I was told that, although they had been inviting all the foreign correspondents to regular press conferences for years, showing thousands of pages debunking the case against Lula as a Lawfare attack and complaining of the crimes committed by the Lava Jato investigation, it all fell on deaf ears. Instead, the foreign correspondents reduced all of the information to trite cliches such as “Lula’s defense lawyers say that he is innocent and allege that no evidence was produced against him.”

Nov 11th, 2018 - 10:18 pm - Link - -1

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Enrique Massot

TH is right in his above post.

For anybody lucid enough to connect the dots, the key role of judge Moro in the election of Jair Bolsonaro as Brazil president and the subsequent reward for his favours is crystal clear.

In spite of the laborious rational pleaded by JB, there is a succession of actions, starting with Dilma Rousseff's impeachment, continuing with the imprisonment of the most popular candidate, Lula da Silva and his exclusion of the electoral race that follow a clear path.

Of course, the masters of the lawfare strategy worked their deed in a timely manner. They knew the PT leader would be unable to transfer his popularity to a candidate Lula designated just a few weeks before the election.

The Brazil example is the most blatant example so far of lawfare in Latin America that is distorting democratic processes in the same manner military coup d'etats did in previous decades.

Nov 12th, 2018 - 03:11 am - Link - 0

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:o))

@TH & EM:

It's not at all - NEVER - about what's right or wrong, fair or unfair, just or unjust.

It's all about creating opportunities [the more, the better] - for acquiring Money AND Power. Both are NEVER enough and to grab one; the other is a MUST!

REF: NYT:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/09/opinion/what-the-hell-happened-to-brazil-wonkish.html

Nov 12th, 2018 - 10:10 am - Link - 0

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Jack Bauer

@:o))
Don't know what dots EM and TH are connecting, but they are not the right ones....perhaps dots from 2014, to dots in 2018 ???????? that' a hell of a lot of dots, and fake news.

Damn, now I'll have to stop arguing with two “i....s”.....let's see if “they” are intelligent enough to fill in the dots..

Nov 12th, 2018 - 05:24 pm - Link - -1

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Terence Hill

JB
You where given an opportunity on another thread to refute the facts in this article, and because you couldn't, you refused.
So any reader of this knows there's not one iota of truth in what you claim.
http://en.mercopress.com/2018/11/02/controversy-in-brazil-as-anti-graft-judge-moro-accepts-post-as-justice-minister/comments#comment494643

Nov 12th, 2018 - 06:58 pm - Link - 0

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:o))

REF:
http://www.renegadetribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/greed.jpg
THE REST IS BULLSHIT/HOGWASH!

Nov 12th, 2018 - 07:20 pm - Link - 0

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DemonTree

@ :o))
ROFL. And the article you posted earlier is interesting too, suggesting Brazil is now suffering problems similar to the EU rather than it's neighbours, and is suffering from too much austerity. I also read that the LJ investigation had worsened the recession by bringing all building work and big projects to a halt, something the corruption investigations in Argentina are trying to avoid.

Nov 12th, 2018 - 07:45 pm - Link - 0

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:o))

@DT:

REF: “suffering from too much austerity”:

Watch the austerity - the philosophy of “tightening of belts” [of the masses, NOT of the politicians] growing! Afterall; they are the ones who prod the masses into “Giving-Up”! Who wouldn't give up, if throughout life, is cornered by lack of education, lack of money, lack of security, lack of healthcare and many other misfortunes?

Nov 12th, 2018 - 09:25 pm - Link - +1

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Jack Bauer

@:o))
re yr NYT artice, while I'm prepared to respect Krugman's opinions when he sticks to economics, his attempt at political commentator is slanted to the left. Seems these foreign “intelectuals” just can't help themselves when expressing their “expert” opinions. At least he admits he “has no knowledge whatsoever of Brazilian politics”…then why talk about it ?

First he calls Brazil's president-elect an “actual fascist”....Don't know what he bases himself on to make that accusation, as B hasn't even been sworn in yet, or does he already know what will happen in the next 4 years ?....perhaps he bases himself on the fact that Trump congratulated him on his victory ? or that he believes all the PT ‘s fake news ? and Krugman is “horrified”...feel sorry for him…maybe he should worry about his own backyard.

He talks of the “extraordinary crisis of 2015-16.........he would be more accurate if he referred to the 2013-14-15-16 crisis....seems he tries to blame the crisis on Dilma's impeachment, as if her absence had caused all the problems, and, on Temer because he tried to fix the mess, the mess that the PT caused during their last 10 years in government.

All we need now is for him to accuse Bolsonaro of being responsble for the crisis because of some comment in Congress 5 years ago.

He says that ”domestic spending plunged, MAYBE because of a build-up of debt“ ....”maybe“ ?? how condescending of him....and he goes on, ”...policy, instead of fighting the slump, exacerbated it”....here he is very vague....perhaps deliberately...and don't know whether he is referring to Dilma (in charge until mid 2016) or to Temer (who had the ungrateful task of trying to fix the mess he inherited from Dilma), but regardless, the fact that he doesn't even mention the PT, Dilma or Lula, stands out like a sore thumb....wonder why not ? did he think there might have been some danger of people associating the 2013-14-15-16 crisis, to the PT ? God forbid !

Nov 13th, 2018 - 06:47 pm - Link - +1

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:o))

@JB

You are right.

Ultimately; the proof of the pudding - the Bottom-Line - is:

CONSISTENTLY: At least:
- zero [near zero] interest rate
- Unemployment: below 7%
- Exchange-Rate: below R$ 3
- Inflation: Below 5%
And to be realistic; under WHICHEVER Government [INCLUDING a corrupt one]!
http://www.mediaplus.com.br/clicfolha2016/uploads/imagem_arquivo/114946_charge_pag2_31082013.jpg

Nov 13th, 2018 - 09:03 pm - Link - 0

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DemonTree

@JB
That's a bit unfair. Krugman starts the article by remarking that he finally has time to worry about something outside his own backyard, and that events closer to home are probably the reason we haven't heard much about the crisis in Brazil (a generous interpretation, IMO... I don't remember ever hearing much about Brazil unless it would affect us in some way).

And in the article he actually blames “the Roussef government” for the spending cuts that according to him exacerbated the crisis, without even mentioning Temer, or her impeachment. I guess he was right when he said he doesn't know much about Brazilian politics, but it also implies he really thinks the cuts were bad policy - he could hardly be biased if he doesn't even know which government made them. If he's right that the crisis is more like those affecting developed countries, it does suggest a reason for it, though: that's a novel situation for Brazil, one the government does not necessarily know how to deal with. (Of course he might not be, he really doesn't seem to have studied Brazil in depth.)

Why exactly is it condescending to say 'maybe'? Given he admits not being particularly well informed, seems reasonable to be cautious in his conclusions.

As for Bolsonaro, in 4 years' time we can judge him on what he has done. Right now we can only go on what he says, and that is evidently alarming enough to worry centrists as well as left-wingers.

Nov 13th, 2018 - 09:46 pm - Link - 0

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:o))

REF: The Elections / Campaigns / Investigations:

Has anyone EVER observed a blatant Mockery of the so-called Democracy?
http://domtotal.com//img/charges/2161.jpg

NONE other than the MercoPress:

“Cristina Fernandez, Jose Mujica and Dilma Rousseff in a Critical Thinking forum”

Nov 14th, 2018 - 10:23 am - Link - 0

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Jack Bauer

@DT
Krugman's statement 'he finally has time to worry abt something other than his backyard', the reason why “he hasn't heard much abt the crisis in Brazil”....and yr “a generous interpretation, IMO”, confirms my point - while the US ('n EU) wasn't hearing much abt the crisis here (why his chronology is slightly off), far less giving much attention to it, the “Brazilians” were unable to ignore it.

His brief mention of Dilma, almost excuses her …” What happened instead was that Roussef decided to impose sharp spending cuts....what were they thinking? Incredibly, seems they bought into the doctrine of expansionary austerity.”….
“Sharp spending cuts” is a joke….while she cut small amounts of already piddling “investment” (because that’s all that was left) in education 'n health (forget infrastructure, which hadn’t seen money for quite some time), she 'n ‘her’ PT/PMDB dominated Congress refused to cut into their own flesh…we all accompanied these ‘grand gestures’, 'n “applauded” the govt’s selfless sacrifice.

Fact is govt had run out of money. Dilma tried to fund it through the illegal, forced loans fm the Federal banks (i/o the nat'l treasury, 'n w/o Congress' approval, the basis for her impeachement).

“he could hardly be biased if he doesn't even know which government made them”..??? He didn't know PT was in power fm 2003/16 ?

“he's right that the crisis is more like those affecting developed countries, does suggest a reason for it, though: that's a novel situation for Brazil, one the government does not necessarily know how to deal with”.......while he's right in that it's the type of crisis that affects developing countries, it's hardly “novel”...'mismanagement“, under any shape, is what it is, and common to Brazil.

Why ”maybe“ condescending ? because it was not 'maybe'....Federal debt, high interest rates - which screwed business, workers, causing mass unemployment - was obvious.

”....we can only go on what he says”....'n how yr press reports it.

Nov 14th, 2018 - 02:34 pm - Link - 0

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:o))

@JB

REF: “Fact is govt had run out of money”:

TRUE - THE fact!

- The Good News for the politicians: They' NEVER will [run out of (stolen) money]
- The Bad News for the masses: NO govt can EVER make the two ends meet! Surprised?

Nov 14th, 2018 - 04:01 pm - Link - 0

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DemonTree

@JB
“He didn't know PT was in power fm 2003/16 ?”

More like he didn't know they *weren't* in power from 2016-2018. Either he thinks Dilma's cuts were a lot more severe than you do, or he's unfairly blaming her and the PT for Temer's policies.

Re “domestic spending plunged, MAYBE because of a build-up of debt,” I read it as meaning personal, not government debt. Ie people and businesses had borrowed too much and decided to cut back, negatively affecting the economy. I don't know how true that is. And of course high interest rates would also reduce private borrowing, and he mentions those too, but they were set by the central bank and not the government, AFAIK.

“'mismanagement', under any shape, is what it is, and common to Brazil.”

Probably.

“'n how yr press reports it.”

That too. But if one person disagrees with you, maybe they're wrong. If ten disagree with you, maybe they have a point...

I've been thinking more about what happened in Argentina. If Brazil similarly borrows from the IMF within the next 4 years, will you admit that Guedes's plans have failed?

Nov 14th, 2018 - 06:41 pm - Link - 0

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:o))

@DT

REF: “high-interest rates would also reduce private borrowing”:

TRUE!

Even at the lowest possible rates, the nº of borrowers are diminishing! That's how “healthy” the economy is!

As long as there is NO check, NO limit, NO auditing and above all, NO discipline [assumung - safely - that corruption will remain unchecked]; there will be NO cure. Hence The Bad News: NO govt can EVER make the two ends meet!

Nov 14th, 2018 - 08:29 pm - Link - 0

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Jack Bauer

@DT
“Either he thinks Dilma's cuts were lot more severe than you do...” Judge for yourself. Wasn't easy 'fishing' for info, nothing is 100% clear. Will use 2015 as the basis, being Dilma's last full year ('n PKrug 'analyzed').

Approved 2015 federal budget (forecasted net revenue - mainly taxes) : R$ 1,20 trillion
Total primary expenses (excludes interest $ 500 billion, 'n any debt reduction): R$ 1,15 trill.
Fiscal adjustmt proposed by govt /voted in Congress, May 2015: R$ 69,9 bill (5,8% of rev)
Main cuts (selective, not linear): urban devlpmt (includes popular housing, sanitation) $ 17,2 bill; health 12 bill; education 9,5 bill; infrastructure 5,5 bill; defense 5,6 bill; others (excludes cost of the 'machine), $ 20 bill.

Dilma's 39 ministries ('B' intends reduce to 17), besides over 2 million career public servants, another 113,000 (political) indications, cost R$ 400 billion; salaries alone, R$ 214 billion....nearly 4 times the approved cut.
Afaik, of the 113,000, none were sacked, nor reduction in salaries/benefits; (highest since 1998).
Temer couldn't have taken over at a worse moment...and a mercenary Congress took care of the rest (especially after his alleged crimes became public).

I agree that 'build up of debt', could refer to personal indebtment...which would affect individual spending (due to rising unemployment). Although interest rates are determined by the COPOM, a Central Bank dept, under the PT the CB was not independent...i.e., the executive branch could interfere (B wants an independent CB).

It is a known fact that today most of the MSM (also in Bzl) tends to the left....it will downplay the left's faults, praise the good beyond reason, criticize almost every initiative that comes from anything right-of-centre, so the idea that if one person disagrees with you maybe they're wrong, is not necessarily true - all depends what they read, 'n what they're prone to believe, imo.

Don't think Brazil, nor Guedes, will need the IMF.

Nov 15th, 2018 - 06:07 pm - Link - 0

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DemonTree

5.8% sounds like a substantial cut to me, so maybe Krugman really did mean Rousseff. I'm not sure if you're saying the R$1.15 tr spending was agreed at the beginning of the year, and then cuts were made halfway through, or if that figure includes the R$69.9 bn cuts, but either way it's a primary surplus. Wasn't that good enough? In 2010 the Tories brought in austerity in the UK with sweeping cuts. It killed the tentative recovery and lead to a double dip recession, targets were repeatedly missed because the cuts reduced growth and thus tax receipts, and yet it wasn't until this year that they finally achieved a primary surplus. Imagine how bad it would have been if they'd tried to do it in one year instead of 8! (Or just look at Greece...) Now it seems Brazil is set on the same course. If Guedes gets his way, you could be headed straight back into recession. :(

Cutting ministries/civil servants probably would have been a better idea than cutting education and infrastructure. But Temer didn't reduce the number of ministries either. I'm guessing he needed the support of the politicians he handed them out to, and certainly Dilma needed all the support she could get.

I suppose you don't know know either if there was too much consumer debt in Brazil before the recession. It seems pretty plausible with the booming economy but would need research.

If the PT persuaded COPOM to raise interest rates then more fool them. Bad for the economy and bad for the PT. I would have expected their interference to go the other way, as Trump is trying (but so far failing) in the US: lower the rates to increase growth, at the expense of higher inflation. Hasn't that been the pattern in LatAm in the past?

”It is a known fact that today most of the MSM (also in Bzl) tends to the left”

That's not true at all in the UK. Just look at how biased they are against Corbyn, and how the tabloids support Brexit and the Tories. Their reporting on Brazil was pretty unsympathetic towards Lula, too.

Nov 15th, 2018 - 08:59 pm - Link - 0

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MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency

Lula challenges conviction arguing “proven bias” of Brazil's next Justice minister

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