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Montevideo, October 4th 2023 - 07:27 UTC



Lobbying in UK to impose a price-hiking “meat tax” to prevent 6.000 deaths annually

Wednesday, November 7th 2018 - 08:39 UTC
Full article 16 comments

A price-hiking “meat tax” could prevent almost 6,000 deaths per year in the UK and save the economy more than £70 million in avoided healthcare costs, say researchers Globally, meat taxes could save an estimated 220,000 lives by 2020 and reduce healthcare costs by £30.7 billion, a study has found. Read full article


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  • chronic

    Long overdue. Also considering the reoccurring bse outbreaks consideration of a plant based diet is long overdue for the UK.

    Nov 07th, 2018 - 05:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice


    Much of the diet is already plant based....Meat processing plants...

    Nov 07th, 2018 - 11:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Why not impose a grass and leaves diet ? you'll be allowed to season it with a bit of salt and olive oil...yummy !!

    Nov 08th, 2018 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    A solely plant based diet would not exactly be practical for the UK. A lot of the land is not suitable for growing crops, and soybeans do poorly here. Also, no olives, though there's plenty of bright yellow fields growing oilseed rape.

    Nov 09th, 2018 - 12:51 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Jack Bauer

    But you've got to eat red meat.....if you don't, the cows will keep on eating all the grass !

    Nov 09th, 2018 - 05:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Bloody cows. I wish they'd stick to the grass instead of leaning over the fence and eating my plants. Who knew the damn things had telescopic necks? And then there was the time they broke through the fence and got into the garden, their hooves left 6 inch deep holes in the lawn, among other things.

    We actually do have that problem with deer in the UK, since their natural predators were all killed off hundreds of years ago.

    Nov 09th, 2018 - 10:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    “among other things”.....can imagine, but good fertilizer after it dries out.

    what were the natural predators of deer ? besides humans, who weren't killed off ? wolves ?

    Nov 11th, 2018 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Wolves, lynx and bears. It's hard to imagine it now; there's no wilderness left in the UK, it's a landscape entirely created by humans.

    RE your post on “Trump makes immigration...”
    You need to have a balance between rights for workers and business. In the UK in the 70s the unions were too powerful and Thatcher fought against them and won. But now I think it's gone too far the other way, with most of the gains in productivity going to shareholders and very little to workers. I don't know where Brazil fits on that scale: formally workers seem to have more rights, but in practice, less.

    “Why Lula said that ? because he’s an uneducated pig.”

    It's weird that people have that stereotype about part of Brazil, but I 'spose you're right. What did he do as President for gay rights? Anything or nothing?

    Quotas in soaps, seriously? And in politics “To see some of them, put there only to fulfill the quota, if not sad, would be hilarious” - that sucks. Why are competent women not more interested in going into politics? Why is anyone decent not more interested, for that matter? Seemingly most of the politicians are only in it for themselves.

    “You still haven’t understood B’s comments abt women earning equal pay as men”

    If the TV presenter asked him a trick question, why did B fall into the trap? The 'right' answer is obvious. Can only assume his long-time supporters (as opposed to the much larger number who voted for him last week) share his misogyny and homophobia and that is why B plays it up. And no, I haven't seen any footage where he advocates adherence to the constitution.

    “but of course, only the ‘right’ is extreme, 'n the left has all the solutions”

    The left don't want to take us back to some miserable straight-jacketed version of the 50s with everyone forced to live according to their oppressive rules. Besides, fighting against the extremes of the left is your job. ;) Out of interest, which LatAm countries do you think are not screwed?

    Nov 12th, 2018 - 12:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    “You need to have a balance btwn rights for workers 'n business”....yes, but seems you agree that the pendulum can swing either in Brazil, worker rights, although nice to have, are imo, too generous. Govts trying to 'look' good to the workers, without considering the negative effects. It's easy to create taxes, benefits etc, when someone else pays the bill (biz).

    As President, Lula's only legacy, for what it's (relatively) worth, is the BF (which fell short and was no where near enough). His popularity is based on that, plus the fact he was “'originally' one of the 'people'. No longer.

    ”If the TV presenter asked him a trick question, why did B fall into the trap? ” he didn't 'fall' into a matter what he answered, it would be used against him (Luciana Gimenez is a known champagne socialist, who only wants to look good to her fans). The fact B answered honestly, is now to be held against him (as far as the left is concerned), despite the fact that the contents of his reply coincide with the opinions of 99% of the population who have ever had domestic servants. Even Miss L.Gimenez. But I doubt you can see the hypocrisy of such a question.

    His 'mysogyny' 'n 'homophobia' have been blown way out of proportion (based on 'old' declarations, usually out of context), as will be shown to his detractors when he takes over 'n the life of 'minorities' will carry-on as it did under the PT.

    Don't confuse the international left of the 50's, which in EU has evolved to an acceptable form of moderate socialism, to the left in Brazil and always make that mistake, thinking that the Brazilian left thinks like the Europeans' are painfully wrong.

    The only countries in LatAm which appear to have extricated themselves from the clutch of the populist left, is Chile...others, such as Paraguay, Brazil, Colombia (even with govts the left will label as extreme-right due to the simple fact they aren't 'left'), are still struggling.

    Nov 12th, 2018 - 05:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    “today in Brazil, worker rights, although nice to have, are imo, too generous”

    You mean they were too generous, right? Didn't Temer just reduce them quite a bit?

    Re Lula, according to Wikipedia, same sex unions were recognised during his presidency, and gay marriage legalised during Dilma's, but by the courts, not the government, so I don't know how much they had to do with it. You think B will not change anything?

    “no matter what he answered, it would be used against him”

    Really? If he had said he would pay his employees the going rate, or according to how good a job they do, how would she use that against him? What's so tricky about the subject?

    And, aren't you going to find some videos of B promising to uphold the constitution? I thought that was what your comment implied.

    “The only countries in LatAm which appear to have extricated themselves from the clutch of the populist left, is Chile...others, such as Paraguay, Brazil, Colombia, are still struggling.”

    That confirms what I thought. No matter whether their government is left, right or centrist, most of the countries in the region are still struggling. And Chile had a left-wing government until March this year. Once when Chicureo was praising Macri, I asked if he'd prefer to have centre-right Macri running Chile, rather than centre-left Bachelet. He said he preferred any Chilean politician over an Argentine one. ;)

    Very wise IMO, since however badly Argentina was doing when Macri took over, it's now still doing badly and also has a mountain of debt to pay off.

    Nov 12th, 2018 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    NO. They ARE too generous. Temer didn't meddle with worker 'rights', for the simple reason tt such rights are enshrined in the Constitution 'n only Congress can alter them. The Labor reform simply addressed certain long standing conflicts, such as allowing people to work only part-time (and maintain all rights), give eventual agreements btwn employers 'n employees the force of law (allowing flexibility and mutually beneficial situations to exist when the standing norm is too rigid or does not attend employee interests) etc.

    The fact same sex unions, gay marriage were recognized during the PT years, was just the recognition of a reality, which had existed for years. It was not legally oppressed, but I can fully understand the desire of certain minorities wanting assurance that their preferences would be respected, legally. I don't even know which party pushed it, as the issue was of no interest to me.
    I'm sure, especially after listening to B over the last couple of weeks, he has absolutely no intention to descriminate those minorities. To the contrary, he has emphasized tt the current laws (whatever they may be, will be upheld. Any talk to the contrary is fake news.

    Re the Luciana Gimenez interview, 1st, it was a hypothetical question, B did not have any domestic servants, or at best, one. 2nd, IF he did, why wouldn't he pay the “going” rate ? anyway, 'that' was not the was paying a woman less while doing the same job as a man. Tricky, because it was clearly question intended to corner him....he answered, considering the reality of the vast majority of the country, something re which, if he were guilty, so would just abt everyone who has ever had more than 2 domestic servants...'n in the same job ? easy to see the question should have been limited to employees in biz...which B said he defended.

    My comments refer interviews, on TV...have not seen videos.

    My question still remains : which leftist regimes in LatAm were/are successful ?

    Nov 13th, 2018 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    It seems to be splitting hairs to say the employment reform didn't affect employee rights when it allowed for outsourcing and more flexible hours. But okay, you think they are still too generous. What would you change if it were up to you?

    “I can fully understand the desire of certain minorities wanting assurance that their preferences would be respected, legally.”

    Yeah, it makes a big difference to things like pensions and inheritance, custody of children, and who gets to make important decisions in an emergency. But people's attitudes are also important, especially in a country with high crime like Brazil. I'm more worried about hate crimes increasing than changes in the law.

    Re the interview, sounds like you are saying the majority of Brazilians are sexist, and B was just being honest about it... Our politicians would never be caught out like that, they are experts at answering a different question to the one that was asked:

    “My comments refer interviews, on TV”

    Then you know I couldn't have seen them. I assume B will swear to uphold the constitution when he becomes president, but that will be about as convincing as Corbyn swearing allegiance to the Queen.

    “which leftist regimes in LatAm were/are successful ?”

    Uruguay. Unlike its two much larger neighbours, the leftists are still in charge, and it seems to be doing comparatively better than both Brazil and Argentina economically, despite those countries being major trading partners. It also scores well on international rankings of things like press freedom and ease of doing business.

    Nov 13th, 2018 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Worker 'rights'. Let's see : Registration ; minimum wage ; FGTS (employer contribution to retirementt fund); 30 days vacation p/yr, plus 30% bonus; Overtime (in factories, commerce, 50% extra pay); nocturnal additional 20%); 13th salary ; transport ‘n meal subsidies ; pregnant women : 6 months leave plus 5 month job guarantee after they return); Medical assistance (depends on contract) ; 30 days pay ‘n 4 month's unemployment benefits if sacked; if not sacked due to 'just' cause, employer pays 40% fine on balance of his contributions to FGTS ; right to a fine (1 salary) paid by employer if the employee cannot take his 30 day vacation within 12 month period after acquiring the right ; the outsourcing possibility, if abused - sack an employee then re-hire him at conditions not as advantageous as before – can take employer to court ; flexible hours are the employees' option...not prejudicial. What would I cut ? Just hope you don't try a “Luciana Gimenez” on me start with : the 30% vacation bonus ; the 40% fine for sacking someone without 'just' cause ; transport ‘n meal subsidies ; 5 months job guarantee for women 'after' they return to work ; If not 'cut', at least re-discuss and adjust to something more reasonable.

    Re increase/decrease of hate crimes against minorities, have little to do with the law....if it were followed, the crimes would not exist.

    “....the majority of Brazilians are sexist...” I'd say so....“machismo” is a cultural trait.

    Bolsonaro, altho served in Congress, being the military man that he is, says things as they are. That's what attracted people, fed up with the usual political bs.

    Uruguay : no surprise ;Mujica, altho an ex-guerilla, adopted a different approach to the PT ; focused on education, environment, public security, energy production ; drove his old VW Beetle, no luxury, donated most of his salary to charity ; fairly liberal, and helped by a small/stable population (3 mill). Everything Brazil did not do.

    Nov 14th, 2018 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    That does seem pretty generous, more so than what we get the UK (which we are about to lose, because the rights are an EU law). I don't really see the point of the 13th salary; why not just increase the minimum wage? Ditto for the subsidies and vacation bonus. And what is a just cause for being sacked? In the UK you can either sack someone for incompetence, dishonesty etc, or lay them off due to downsizing or outsourcing, but you can't get rid of someone for no reason. That would lead to a lawsuit, not a fine. Is the 30 days' vacation supposed to be taken all at once? That doesn't sound very practical. And I wish we had the same rule for outsourcing, but probably it's easily abused.

    “if [the law] were followed, the crimes would not exist.”

    Obviously. The law is only useful if it is enforced, and Brazil has a problem with that anyway. Social pressure also makes a difference, though, and people in Brazil don't seem too bothered if their friends break the law.

    “'machismo' is a cultural trait”

    To me it comes across as trying too hard, like trying to cover up insecurity, but I guess it is just a cultural difference. And Bolso, like Trump, says things certain people want to hear, but are not actually true. They encourage people's worst impulses in order to gain power, turning one sector of society against another. I worry about where it will end up.

    Re Uruguay, their government is certainly not perfect, but it shows left-wing governments can do okay, while right-wing ones are equally able to screw up (compare Paraguay). Economic success depends on the details of policy, how competent/honest the government is, and unrelated factors, eg global environment, natural resources.

    Nov 14th, 2018 - 10:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Hope you're now aware tt Temer cut 'zero'....the reform only adopted some common practices which workers revindicated 'n employers couldn't apply (legally), as not foreseen b4 the reform. Now, it's 'friendlier'.

    13th salary has nothing to do with minimum wage. It's a bonus, less taxed than the regular salary, benefiting workers/ employers. IF it, 'n other benefits were incorporated into the minimum wage, it would distort the MW concept, 'n throw the worker into a higher income tax bracket)...I've explained this B4.

    A 'just' cause could be for stealing, sabotage, dishonesty, missing work for a period of time w/o medical justification, refusing to cooperate....provided it can be proved.....otherwise, you can be sacked, without any particular reason, which imo, includes redundancy, incompetence, 'n have some of the rights preserved, differently to 'just' cause. Either case, if the worker wants to sue, he can, but won't necessarily win. The 30 days vacation 'had' to be taken all at once, however employers, at their discretion, would allow 2 x 15d, 1 x 20 + 1 x 10d etc....Now, there's more flexibility, no rights lost, w/o obliging the employer to run the risk of a fine (if denounced).
    As I said, hate crimes will occur, regardless of 'any' law.

    Latin American “machismo” is due to the Portuguese 'n Spanish their culture of the 1500s, the women were brought up to 'serve' the men, 'n seems today they let it go. Many men here, think their wives, girlfriends, and ex's, are their 'property' ....reason why so many are killed, out of jealousy.

    Once again, B was not being “machista”, he just replied what the norm was, 'n he did defend equal pay in companies, which is where the problem occurs.

    “...turning one sector of society against another...” Sorry to insist...this is how the PT operates.

    URU's govt was relatively successful, because it was “moderately” left (as in EU), 'n embraced sensible policies, not the usual sh*t we've seen here.

    Nov 15th, 2018 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Guess I didn't mean minimum wage, but rather that the 13th salary could be rolled up into the normal pay by giving everyone an 8% pay rise. But I see that would cause problems with tax bands etc, and probably people would object as getting the money spread out would not seem like as much. It just seems weird to me, here you only get a bonus if you and the company have done well, and not at all in the public sector.

    And that's one area where we have more rights; in the UK you can't sack someone without good reason, and if you lay people off you have to follow proper procedures, give them notice, and try to find them jobs elsewhere in the business. I know because I went through the process in my previous job. I didn't argue because I wanted to leave anyway and I got a big payout, but if they don't follow all the rules you can sue them for wrongful dismissal.

    Taking all your holiday at once sounds rubbish, both for employer and employee, I don't understand why that would be the rule. And is it 30 work days or 30 consecutive days? UK workers have the right to 28 days paid holiday, but that includes 8 bank holidays which everyone gets off, so really you have 4 weeks' worth to use.

    “reason why so many are killed, out of jealousy.”

    Reason enough to think it's a bad thing. There was a horrible story on the news today, from Russia, which appears to have similar problems:

    Her husband only got 14 years, how is that fair?

    ““...turning one sector of society against another...” Sorry to insist...this is how the PT operates.”

    So that's equally bad, right? Now the same thing is happening in the UK with Brexit and the US with Trump: in the UK it's 'Eurocrats' and the educated Remainers, and in the US 'coastal elites' who supposedly turn their noses up at the 'hard working people'. Who did Lula blame?

    Nov 15th, 2018 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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