MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Bolsonaro and Macri agree to “review and perfect” Mercosur, and advance trade talks with EU
Brazil’s president Jair Bolsonaro and Argentina’s president Mauricio Macri said they agreed to continue integrating their economies (number one and two in South America), as strategic partners, by “perfecting” the Mercosur trade block and pressing ahead with negotiations that are already underway, such as the ongoing free trade and cooperation agreement with the European Union. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesMercosur espouses democracy and democratic principles within its member states while ignoring the basic human and democratic rights of the Falkland Islanders: Mercosur – and the Falklands(1 pg):-
Jan 17th, 2019 - 10:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.academia.edu/37458216/Mersocur_and_the_Falklands
Developing the Mercosur as a base; maybe they plan a much Bigger Game?:
Jan 17th, 2019 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.insightcrime.org/news/analysis/reasons-latam-organized-crime-strengthen-2019/
https://www.insightcrime.org/news/analysis/reasons-latam-organized-crime-strengthen-2019/
You live in a distortion cloud of nationalist delusional gran and selfish self importance Brit Bob. If the Argentinians are not speaking up louder on the truth, it is only because they are overwhelmed by the British financial and military power backed mediatic brainwashing logistic campaign to sell the world the bull sh** story of “Isander self determinatoin” equaling a valid territorial right to the islands. You're country has been mocking the world with this crap since they started on the people in Gibraltar being more important that the seriousness of an extortion trophy robbed from Spain as a political matter of global importance.
Jan 17th, 2019 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The territorial claim and dispute over those islands exists way before Britain devisevly brought its own people on the the islands to give validity to their usurping attack on the Argentine settlement. Argentina is being VERY DEMOCRATIC, as it is not taking a military posture and simply exercising its denouncement against Britain diplomatically. It is the Islanders and Britain who ARE NOT being Democratic by disrespecting and dishonoring the Argentine territorial matter, not addressing the country diplomatically and instead bullying their will insultingly with the show of military power. Did the Islanders were never had any sovereign definition nor will of any kind, the only “self determination” they have exercised so far is stating they agree to be ruled by England. That is not the United Nation's wording purpose for “a people's self determination” They United Nations has always and only meant “self determination” in the face of removing an unwanted power off “a people's” will. And that could not mean Argentina, because Argentina is not seeking to rule the Islands or the Islanders. Argentina has a matter it wishes to dispute, an event that occurred in 1833 and it wants to argue that.
This conflict has never been about what Argentina says or wants. It has always been about Britain being wrong, lying, deceiving, and suppressing truth
@Patrick
Jan 17th, 2019 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wait, you think 'extortion trophies' are more important than people? Isn't that kinda fucked up?
If you ask me, PE is fucked up.....feel sorry for him.
Jan 17th, 2019 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Patrick Edgar
Jan 18th, 2019 - 03:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0“It has always been about Britain being wrong, ...”
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Christopher Hitchens
What are planning to lie about?
Jan 18th, 2019 - 05:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-tower-moscow-deal-trump-told-michael-cohen-to-lie-to-congress-2019-1
@JB
Jan 18th, 2019 - 10:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Drugged up would be more accurate I reckon.
And your new government ought to make up their minds, one day they're threatening to leave Mercosur and the next promising to perfect it.
Except for immigrant control and reducing the age of majority, other points in Bolsonaro's agenda like depoliticizing schools, gun law reform and alignment with the United States in foreign policy and trade are condemned by a significant part of the population, with percentages close to 70%.
Jan 18th, 2019 - 10:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/amp/internacional/en/brazil/2019/01/bolsonaros-priorities-dont-appeal-to-most-brazilians.shtml
Terry
Jan 18th, 2019 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0- Bolsonaro was just freely and popularly elected on his well publicized programs.
- This thread is about a negotiation regarding Mercosur.
- Both you and Patrick obviously have forgotten to take your prescribed meds.
- Patrick's post is far more interesting and valid than your pathetic post.
So sayeth the rube.
Jan 18th, 2019 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@DT
Jan 18th, 2019 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bolsonaro's been in power, for what, 18 days ? “whoa”, go easy...
If not mistaken, B just wants to transform it back into what it should be - functional TRADE agreement - hampered due to the difference in the block's economies
(Ref: “Bolso effect on Bzln currency..”)
“As long as we can agree on…what happened, rather than dismissing… as 'fake' news”.
R u referring to what I said earlier “Previous govts, especially PT, wasted billions on propaganda/isn’t advertising the soul of business/ easier to divulge fake propaganda than actually DO something”….which was abt the press being upset becos B said he’d reduce govt propaganda, depriving them of $$$.
Fact remains - not fake news - had the PT done 10% of what it ‘advertised’, Brazil wouldn’t be in the sh*t.
The SIVAM, surveillance system in the AMZ region, implemented 2002 (by FHC ‘n Raytheon) is what allowed, for the 1st time, effective monitoring of illegal mining, deforestation, drugs, ‘n was more effective than legislation, tt no one respected anyway. Dilma’s “New Forest Code” (w/ Lula’s approval, as she did nothing w/o it) all but eliminated the progress made during the previous decade (which ‘I’ believe was largely due to the drop in US’s demand for timber). But I agree, Dilma’s Forest Code ‘n Bs tendency to favor agribusiness, opens the door to more deforestation, at same / higher rates….let’s see.
If someone wanders unknowingly into your land, OK, no shooting ; if a group of armed rural workers “marched in”, obvious trouble/threat, yes you could shoot them. Is that what you didn’t believe ? If a robber got into your house at gun point, ‘n you shot him, that’d be OK. If you caught him leaving yr garden with yr stereo set, not posing an obvious threat, debatable. If he were running away, you wouldn’t shoot him in the back.
“PS. When I said it surprised me… u prefer me to be more direct?”
So “surprised” is a euphemism for “I don’t believe you” ? and 'yes', always more direct.
@JB
Jan 18th, 2019 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You seemed to be heading towards saying the whole thing was made up by the media and deforestation never fell under Lula or rose again later. In which case, no point discussing it... but okay, you were talking about other PT government 'achievements'. I doubt the fall in deforestation was due to a drop in demand since it happened before 2007. More probably was due to stronger laws, eg requiring farmers to pay for reforestation if caught, and better monitoring, which were later weakened again.
And your description of the defence laws makes much more sense. If someone is threatening you, you can defend yourself, but not shoot them just for setting foot on your property. I'm guessing they are a lot less strict in Brazil on what constitutes a threat, but that's reasonable in a more dangerous society.
Re 'surprised', there's a big element of truth to this meme:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/chart-shows-what-british-people-say-what-they-really-mean-and-what-others-understand-a6730046.html
Just add 'That surprises me' -> '...because it's highly implausible' -> 'You're easily surprised' to the bottom. ;)
I'll try and be more direct in future, but it'll be hard because it's all subconscious. Besides, you'll probably get angry if I say I don't believe you.
Patrick, you are a star! Please keep posting the nonsense, we love it. Our Sepoys are undoubtedly doing a great job.
Jan 18th, 2019 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”SAO PAULO (REUTERS) - Brazilian financial authorities have identified dozens of cash transfers worth almost 100,000 reais ($26,665) that were deposited over the course of a month into the account of the president's son, according to a TV newscast on Friday.
Jan 19th, 2019 - 02:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0The report on the National Journal, Brazil's main nightly news program, said that the Council for Financial Activities Control (COAF) had identified 48 deposits made into the account of former Rio de Janeiro state lawmaker and Senator-elect Flavio Bolsonaro, the son of President Jair Bolsonaro.
Each of the deposits, made between June 9 and July 13, 2007, was for 2,000 reais, and several of them were made in an ATM inside Rio's state legislative assembly, the National Journal said, quoting a COAF report it said it obtained exclusively. The COAF did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
The news show quoted the COAF report as saying that it was impossible to identify who had made the deposits, but the fact that many were for the same amount suggested whoever had done so was trying to obscure the origin of the funds.”
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2019-01-18/brazil-probe-finds-suspect-deposits-in-bolsonaro-sons-account-report
@JB
Jan 19th, 2019 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: Bolsonaro's been in power, for what, 18 days? “whoa”, go easy...
Yes, of course!
But as far as my limited knowledge goes, he was active during his extremely Brilliant Political Career of +/- 30 years; doing NOTHING at all for the population.
To make the matters even worse, he is in cahoots with the armed forces. During their +/- 20 years of sacred regime, they achieved - unlike him - a little better than absolutely NOTHING, besides efficiently driving the country deep into bankruptcy.
That's not all!
Their efficiency, ability & record in terms of curbing crime [organized or otherwise] is hovering between horrible & miserable. But they have an superb excuse - “this is not THEIR job”!
That's why the credibility of the this Unholy Partnership is at stake, I guess. But of course, I, like a hell of of a lot ignorants, may too be mistaken/misled as well!
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZO88rO2e6Q0/UUzY1wLqkmI/AAAAAAAAPh0/jvLq875xiAE/s400/AUTO_frank3.jpg
@DT
Jan 21st, 2019 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You seemed to be heading towards saying the whole thing was made up by the media and deforestation never fell under Lula or rose again later.”......Not at all...I've already conceded it fell during the PT era, then increased again in the last two years. Satisfied ?
“More probably was due to stronger laws, eg requiring farmers to pay for reforestation if caught, and better monitoring, which were later weakened again”.....NO. But it's clear that the SIVAM surveillance system, inaugurated in 2002, is what permitted more effective monitoring against deforestation... as of 2003...the laws changed very little or nothing...until Dilma's New Forest Code came along....to make things worse.
The problem is that on here it is difficult to explain things (defence laws) in sufficient detail , to make them understood.
I’m perfectly aware that in English you can say something which implies the opposite of what it sounds like (to a non-native speaker), but in the case of “I’m surprised”, I’d only use it to express my surprise over something I was not aware of, or of which I had little of no idea......If I 'doubted' what someone told me, I'd say so.....no political correctness.
Don’t worry, If you say you 'don’t believe' me, I’ll only get pissed-off if you are doubting my honesty, or implying that I'm deliberately lying.....not my style.
“I’ll only get pissed-off if you are doubting my honesty, or implying that I'm deliberately lying.....not my style.” Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,
Jan 21st, 2019 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a whopper.
“Satisfied ?”
Jan 22nd, 2019 - 12:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yup. And IIRC there was some tightening up of the laws, but probably better enforcement with the aid of satellite surveillance was the main reason deforestation fell. I also found an article that mentioned boycotts (not just in Brazil, I assume) of soy and beef grown on newly deforested land, and increased influence of NGOs on the new government as contributory factors. Then the partial amnesty made things worse again.
“I’m perfectly aware that in English you can say something which implies the opposite of what it sounds like”
It's a bad idea to do this online, really, since text is so ambiguous, but when I've done it deliberately I try to make it obvious. In future I'll just tell you if you're wrong, but don't worry; unlike Terry I don't think you're deliberately lying.
As for defence laws, we were talking about the Indians potentially defending their reserve from loggers, mercury using gold miners etc, who may well not intend to do any harm to the inhabitants. I'm guessing it is not legal to shoot someone cutting down trees, either on a reserve or on your own land, but not otherwise threatening you? You'd be expected to call the police, however long it takes them to arrive.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 22nd, 2019 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“unlike Terry I don't think you're deliberately lying.” Yeah it's a little difficult to see the wood from the trees when your eyes are closed, while you concentrate on sucking. Let me remind you again of his total lack of veracity.
http://en. mercopress.com/2018/04/04/brazil-s-conundrum-army-chief-twits-good-citizens-repudiate-impunity-and-respect-the-constitution/comments#comment486481
http://en. mercopress.com/2017/07/12/brazil-former-president-lula-da-silva-found-guilty-of-corruption/comments#comment470714
http://en. mercopress.com/2017/07/20/ex-brazilian-president-assets-and-bank-accounts-frozen/comments#comment471145
http://en. mercopress.com/2018/03/20/lula-begins-tour-of-south-brazil-and-meets-mujica-but-it-was-a-bad-day-for-both-leaders/comments#comment485779
http://en.mercopress.com/2018/11/22/brazil-s-secret-dealings-to-contract-cuban-physicians-to-work-in-the-more-doctors-program/comments#comment495051
@DT
Jan 22nd, 2019 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for not comparing me to Numb Nuts, that would be an insult....hahahahahahahaha
Have you noticed that Terry is obssessed with 'sucking'....I've told him, more than once, Lula is waiting for his 'intimate' visit...I'm sure Lula would keep his eyes closed while Terry does what he knows best.
The idiot keeps on with his 'lack of veracity' crap.....I've asked Numb Nuts to list my “lies”....he can't, for the simple reason that 'personal opinions' can be based purely on perception, and while not stated as facts, are not lies, neither need to be proved...but he has trouble in distinguishing facts from opinions. And when he lies, or pisses out the pot, he is quick to deny or forget his slip-ups...such as his stubborn insistence that Mourão “served” in Haiti, or that Bolsonaro called his wife “weak”...
TH is such a bad sport.... think I'm going to take my ball and go home....
In view of violent street crime, not to mention massacres in rural areas, over land disputes, a few more deaths caused by confrontations between farmers/illegal miners, and the indians will go pretty much unnoticed. Forget the police....they could be 100 miles away, or take two days to arrive...after the sh*t has happened
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jan 22nd, 2019 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I'm deliberately lying.....not my style.”
The chickens have come home to roost on that issue, as I've just shown a fraction of your constant lying.
Meanwhile, your bosom bud states in spite of irrefutable evidence “unlike Terry I don't think you're deliberately lying.”
If that isn't the 'suckiest' behaviour, I can't think of any other that's any greater.
“I've asked Numb Nuts to list my “lies”.”
Mission already accomplished with five instances at this link, dipshit.
http://en.mercopress.com/2019/01/17/bolsonaro-and-macri-agree-to-review-and-perfect-mercosur-and-advance-trade-talks-with-eu/comments#comment497274
@JB
Jan 22nd, 2019 - 10:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, I have noticed. Very Freudian. But poor Lula - cruel and unusual punishment indeed.
Terry has got to be one of the least self-aware people I have ever met. He really can't see his own hypocrisy and absurd double standards.
Re crime, that's exactly what I was thinking about the police. Calling them out to a farm in the middle of nowhere is very different to calling from a condo in SP. But it's usually the Indians being massacred, isn't it? Easier for the loggers/miners/farmers to get hold of weapons, and even if the Indians did kill some, there would always be more and they'd be specially targeting the tribes in future. Isn't Funai or some other agency supposed to defend the reservations?
@TH
The only way you could be sure someone was lying deliberately would be to read their mind. You're not going to claim you can do that, are you? Otherwise they may be mistaken, repeating something they read in the newspaper, giving an opinion and not a fact, or even completely deluded.
As for sucking up, that would look like this:
Yeah, Terry is an idiot. But the world needs toilet cleaners as well as people who can do skilled jobs. It's not his fault he can't even string a sentence together correctly, and unlike us he never got the chance to go to university.
Anyway, I see your point about Bolsonaro, it really is unfair not to give him a chance, and crime is so extreme in Brazil the normal rules just can't apply. I don't have experience of anything like that so I didn't understand what it's like, it's pretty brave staying in Brazil and even living in Africa for a while.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 01:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0“He really can't see his own hypocrisy and absurd double standards” Opining without specifics, because there are none.
“The only way you could be sure someone was lying deliberately” Is to show the initial claims, and then showing the later denials. Thats how it's done sunshine, you do your homework.
“Unlike us he never got the chance to go to university” the possible but unconfirmed polytec attendee, the rube, and the shipping clerk who claims to have 3 degrees, but somehow is unable to prove anything he claims. As I always refute them successfully.
So your unable to prove anything you claim. Thus, no proof, no truth.
“As well as people who can do ...” One of several of my expertise's is in electronic counter measures. Specifically the AN/ALT-7, AN/APR-4, AN/APT-16A, and ALA-2.
https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documents/Research/RAF-Historical-Society-Journals/Journal-28-Seminar-Electronic-Warfare.pdf
@Deluded Terry
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 10:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0“unconfirmed polytec attendee”
Lol, and what's wrong with polytechnics? Are you trying to insult The Voice?
And no, showing the initial claims and then later denials is NOT enough to prove someone is lying deliberately (not that you have even managed that, JB has never denied anything he said before AFAIK). Suppose I told you in 1997 that the expansion of the universe was gradually slowing down, and it might eventually collapse in a big crunch. I wasn't lying, that was the best state of scientific knowledge at the time. Or, imagine I told you my car is in the office car park, but really it had been stolen that day. I wasn't lying, because I didn't know. Or a conspiracy theorist might insist the WTC was blown up by the US government and the planes were holograms, and they are not lying either; they're crazy, but they really believe what they are saying.
JB has never denied that he supported the military government, BUT he doesn't believe that makes him a fascist. So he wasn't lying. Simple.
“One of several of my expertise's is in electronic counter measures. Specifically the AN/ALT-7, AN/APR-4, AN/APT-16A, and ALA-2.”
Pick one of those and tell us how it works, then. In your own words. Or if you don't know the theory, tell us how it can go wrong and how you fix it.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 11:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0“And no, showing the initial claims and then later denials is NOT enough to prove someone is lying deliberately ... JB has never denied that he supported the military government, BUT he doesn't believe that makes him a fascist. So he wasn't lying ” It's called 'impeaching the witness'. So you can huff and suck as much as want, he has absolutely no credibility, he's discredited. Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.. .
“Pick one of those and tell us how it works...” Nope, as there is no such onus on me too. Can do even better than that, I can provide visual evidence of being who I claim to be, and working for Eric Clapton.
To wit: https://imgur.com/a/WDPeU
Working for Eric Clapton? Are you nuts? A picture of you with a mug doesn't prove expertise in anything, you need to demonstrate it. And so far, the only thing you have shown any expertise in is making bullshit excuses.
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And 'impeaching the witness' doesn't apply, we're not in a court and JB isn't a witness. It's just another excuse from you because you know I'm right.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“A picture of you with a mug doesn't prove expertise in anything”
It certainly proves where I was, and is further supported by the RAF archives https://www. rafmuseum.org.uk/documents/Research/RAF-Historical-Society-Journals/Journal-28-Seminar-Electronic-Warfare.pdf
So it more than rebuffs your insinuations Ollie.
Impeaching the witness' doesn't apply, perhaps not in your jaundiced little world. Whereas in reality proof of what I'm claiming is absolute. Game, set, and match.
If the mug proves anything (it could be photoshopped, but you're too incompetent to do it) it's only that you were in the RAF... probably cleaning toilets. What is the existence of RAF archives supposed to prove about YOU?
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Impeaching the witness is a legal term which applies only in a court, which we are not. And furthermore, in court the cases are proved beyond reasonable doubt, or decided on the balance of the evidence, there is no absolute proof. So your claim is simply incoherent.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“RAF... probably cleaning toilets.” You wish, after three years training in air wireless communications and navigational systems the RAF had greater expectations of me.
Toilets, you'd better check with your bosom bud as that seems to be the pinnacle of of his military career.
“There is no absolute proof” Oh yes there is according to “Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy; States of Affairs; First published Tue Mar 27, 2012
Philosophers connect sentences with various items, such as thoughts, facts and states of affairs. Thoughts are either true or false in an absolute sense, never both or neither.”
plato.stanford. edu/entries/states-of-affairs/
15 Jack Bauer; “..Am pretty sure that military are accompanying all this … I hope they DO take over...”
http://en.mercopress.com/2014/03/31/brazil-remembers-the-50th-anniversary-of-the-coup-that-led-to-21-years-of-military-rule/comments#comment318071
So in spite of his refutable denials here is an irrefutable definition.
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical authoritarian ultranationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy,
http://en.mercopress.com/2014/03/31/brazil-remembers-the-50th-anniversary-of-the-coup-that-led-to-21-years-of-military-rule/comments#comment318071
Game, set, and match facist lover.
@The Liar
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't misquote me, you liar. I said IN COURT there is no absolute proof. And besides being irrelevant, your quote doesn't even mention the word!
To show someone is deliberately lying, you have to prove intent, and you can't. It doesn't matter what the dictionary says, what matters is what JB believed at the time.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“RAF... probably cleaning toilets.” You wish, after three years training in air wireless communications and navigational systems the RAF had greater expectations of me.
Toilets, you'd better check with your bosom bud as that seems to be the pinnacle of of his military career.
“There is no absolute proof” Oh yes there is according to “Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy; States of Affairs; First published Tue Mar 27, 2012
Philosophers connect sentences with various items, such as thoughts, facts and states of affairs. Thoughts are either true or false in an absolute sense, never both or neither.”
plato.stanford. edu/entries/states-of-affairs/
15 Jack Bauer; “..Am pretty sure that military are accompanying all this … I hope they DO take over...”
http://en.mercopress.com/2014/03/31/brazil-remembers-the-50th-anniversary-of-the-coup-that-led-to-21-years-of-military-rule/comments#comment318071
So in spite of his refutable denials here is an irrefutable definition.
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical authoritarian ultranationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy,
http://en.mercopress.com/2014/03/31/brazil-remembers-the-50th-anniversary-of-the-coup-that-led-to-21-years-of-military-rule/comments#comment318071
Game, set, and match facist lover.
You already posted that one, dummy. It's still wrong.
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You already posted that one. Apparently, Mercopress has the same glitch, which appears periodically.
“I said IN COURT there is no absolute proof” Go ahead have your little fascist tantrum, but you don't get to dictate or demand.
“You have to prove intent” No I don't, as you have already stated “applies only in a court, which we are not”
Regardless, I have proved my assertion well beyond a standard of a 'reasonable doubt'.
Moreover, since he has made such expression, it's more rational to assume that he intended what he stated. Unless, it's your contention he talking through his ....
@DT
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Armed confrontations btwn indians and owners of rural property is quite common. Just an ex., in 2017, a group of 13 indians armed to the teeth (machetes, arrows, guns) invaded a small farm abt 250 kms from S.Luis, capital of Maranhão. They were revindicating an area of roughly 14,000 hectares in 3 municipalities, 'n decided to not wait for Justice to determine who the owners of the land were. No one killed, but most, on both sides, injured.
The indians have access to weapons like all the others. The FUNAI is bureacratic, not an armed force.
Terry doesn't realize I am allowed to opine on whatever I want...like a slug he latches on to my support of the military regime, which was based on my personal experience - ignoring that 1) it was not an option Brazilians could choose from, and 2) to most it was better than the possible alternative had they not intervened ...simple as that....but when someone's opinion differs from his, it has to be a lie...but who cares ?
Don't know what thinks he achieves by insistently repeating “Am pretty sure that military are accompanying all this … I hope they DO take over..”....We now know the context in which it was written - tks to you - but how is it a LIE ???
It's obvious that not having University degree is a sore point with Terry...so anyone who does, and confirms it if asked, is automatically a liar...Terry logic.
He's such a self-centered idiot that he actually believes people take his sh*t seriously..
When asked to prove his assertions, it's the usual BS , “there is no such onus on me”.....It's called “double standard”, and as much as he “huffs and sucks”, sorry to tell him Lula will not be able to pay him more than R$ 100,00 for his services ...that's the maximum inmates are allowed to have at any given moment.
His 'mug' theory is pathetic....and now, Eric Clapton ?...his fantasies - and stupidity - know no limits. He should be in a psycho ward.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“On to my support of the military regime, which was based on my personal experience -”
Which your 'so called experience“ is shown to be nothing but a litany of lies
”16 Jack Bauer Armed opposition to the government was already happening in 1961....3 years before the military took over.
26 Jack Bauer the military…decided to try to prevent the VP Joao Goulart (Jango), a communist, from taking over. This caused Jango's brother-in-law Leonel Brizola, the governor of RS and also a declared communist…“
http://en.mercopress.com/2016/08/31/rousseff-s-fate-has-been-decided-senate-will-make-it-formal-on-wednesday
”The only credited source for the so-called ‘communist-threat’ is: “Making the rounds of Brazil's major industrialists, de Paiva was able to appeal to their interests by translating his visceral hatred of communism into a simple message they could understand: Goulart wants to take away from you that which is yours. In this way, de Paiva was able to drum up close to $20,000 a month in donations. … The denial of all political rights and the suppression of working class efforts to gain a more equitable share of Brazil's enormous natural wealth give the lie to the country's “economic miracle” that foreign investors proclaim. Whatever gains Brazil can speak of are realised by only a small elite.”
Brazil and CIA by Peter Gribbin
“The US can point to nothing even remotely threatening done by the Brazilian Communist Party”
h ttp://www-personal.umich.edu/~lormand/poli/soa/brazil.htm
“It's obvious that not having ..” a clue as to where, I live or what is my education. Suffice is to say the 'former', very well. As to the latter, more than enough to run rings around you. Which means I probably am better educated than you, and are brighter than you. Where is this array of knowledge from your 3 degrees that you claim? snigger, snigger.
“and now, Eric Clapton” Supplied to working crew, by the Production Company. They are not readily avai
@JB
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So who is supposed to keep out loggers, illegal miners, etc from the reservations? And that sounds like an unpleasant incident. Is everyone in the countryside armed?
Terry's an idiot, and I think you're right that not having a degree is a sore point. I think under all the bluster he must realise he's no very bright, otherwise why the refusal to talk about something he claims to be an expert in? And certainly his posts don't show any signs of intelligence, from the crappy spelling to the utter lack of originality to the illogical conclusions.
As for that crap he keeps repeating, he believes wanting the army to take over makes you a fascist, and you said you aren't a fascist, so in his mind you must have lied. That's what I've been trying to explain to him: YOU don't believe the military government was fascist, or that wanting them to take over makes you one. So you were telling the truth. But trying to get any new idea into his thick skull is nearly impossible.
PS. Remember what we were talking about? I'm not sure 'revindicating' is even a word, but if is no one will know what you mean by it.
@The Liar
The only thing I'm demanding is honesty. Got a problem with that?
If you want to prove someone lied deliberately, you have to prove intent. It's obvious JB doesn't think his two statements are contradictory, so he wasn't lying. You haven't proved anything.
Chicureo the flamer
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Terry's an idiot, and I think you're right that not ... ”
Speculative at best, like all your other wild guesses.
Personally, I love using the skills I've honed overs the years. To reveal you two turkeys as you really are, and not as you wish to be seen as.
“He believes wanting the army to take over makes you a fascist,” You're the gift that keeps giving, exactly like the following. JB “Your insistence that I'm a fascist”
Brazil's corruption scandals reach Lula da Silva: ...
Brazil remembers the 50th anniversary of the coupe…
15 Jack Bauer; “..Am pretty sure that military are accompanying all this … I hope they DO take over...”
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical authoritarian ultranationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
“If you want to prove someone lied deliberately, you have to prove intent. ... doesn't apply, we're not in a court ... ”
Regardless, I have proved my assertion well beyond a standard of a 'reasonable doubt'.
Moreover, since he has made such expression, it's more rational to assume that he intended what he stated. Unless, it's your contention he talking through his ....
”his two statements are contradictory, so he wasn't lying“ He's simply impeached. ”If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck,....”
“He's simply impeached.”
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 10:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Aha, so you admit he wasn't lying. But I don't think that word means what you think it means.
And how can you're skills be so bad if you've been 'honing them for years'? I've heard that if you practice doing something in the wrong way, instead of improving you'll just get good at doing it wrong. This seems to be the perfect example.
Chicureo the flamer
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“you have to prove intent. ... doesn't apply, we're not in a court ...”
Regardless, I have proved my assertion well beyond a standard of a 'reasonable doubt'.
Moreover, since he has made such expression, it's more rational to assume that he intended what he stated. ”his two statements are contradictory, so he wasn't lying” He was indeed and your defence is defective as a fallacy.
”however, it is considered a fallacy to make contradictory claims. People call it arguing out of both sides of your mouth,“ The Purposeful Argument: A Practical Guide By Harry Phillips, Patricia Bostian.
Is not only completely unprincipled but estopped (barred) in law; Allegans contraria non est audiendus (Jenk. Cent. 16): “He is not to be heard who alleges things contradictory to each other.” This elementary rule of logic expresses, in technical language, the saying that a man shall not be permitted to “blow hot and cold” with reference to the same transaction, or insist, at different times, on the truth of each of two conflicting allegations, according to the promptings of his private interest. en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Legal_counsel
His statements aren't contradictory so he wasn't lying. End of.
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 11:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chicureo the flamer
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 11:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0His statements are absolutely contradictory so he was lying. He intended what he stated, and your defence is defective as a fallacy.End of.
@Terence Hill
Jan 24th, 2019 - 08:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “HE intended what HE stated”:
http://www.chargeonline.com.br/php/DODIA//alves.jpg
Of course he intended what he stated; he said exactly what he believed. You are claiming they are contradictory, and haven't proved it.
Jan 24th, 2019 - 10:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 24th, 2019 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“you have to prove intent ...” There is no such obligation, under these conditions according to the following experts.
”He may be lying and think something quite different from what he says, but even then he is committed to what he has said and, consequently, the listener can hold him to his word. (van Eemeren and Grootendorst, 1992, p. 32)
And in the footnote they specify their subscription to a commitment model as follows:
The major consequence of the responsibility condition is that the speaker, because he is answerable for what he has said, may be deemed to act as if he were sincere – whether he actually is sincere or not. FOR OUR PURPOSES, IT IS WHAT THE SPEAKER CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THAT COUNTS, NOT WHAT HE PRIVATELY THINKS.“
https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/blog.umd.edu/dist/6/47/files/2012/08/Jorgensen-Intent1.pdf
”Dictatorship Was A 'Very Good' Period, Says Brazil's Aspiring President”
Holders of such views are considered fascists.
REF: agree to “review and perfect” Mercosur
Jan 24th, 2019 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So charity doesn't begin AT HOME, afterall!
You've missed the point completely. By intent I mean intent to deceive. Deliberately lying means saying something you know or believe to be false. If you don't believe it's false then you are merely mistaken (your 'mistake of fact'), or there is a difference of opinion on what is true.
Jan 24th, 2019 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your quotations don't apply at all. JB was not lying; he said exactly what he thought, he was sincere, and is happy to be answerable for his views. He would say the same today.
“Holders of such views are considered fascists,” is nothing but YOUR opinion. JB does not believe it, so he told the truth when he said he isn't one.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 24th, 2019 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“By intent I mean intent to deceive.”
It's you who has missed the point completely, as it's irrelevant as I have shown. Mens rhea doesn't enter the picture under this exclusive situation of argumentation.
“The Relevance of Intention in Argument Evaluation Charlotte Jørgensen
Over the last decades, the notion of intentionality has been challenged from various theoretical perspectives within rhetoric and argumentation.”(the action or process of reasoning systematically in support of an idea, action, or theory: lines of argumentation used to support his thesis.)
“The major consequence of the responsibility condition is that the speaker, because he is answerable for what he has said, may be deemed to act as if he were sincere – whether he actually is sincere or not. FOR OUR PURPOSES, IT IS WHAT THE SPEAKER CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THAT COUNTS, NOT WHAT HE PRIVATELY THINKS.”
Idiot. You are the one deeming that he is not sincere; that is exactly what an accusation of lying is! You are arguing against yourself and too stupid to see it. Stick to cleaning toilets.
Jan 24th, 2019 - 03:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 24th, 2019 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You are the one deeming that he is not sincere” You are as thick as two short planks attempting the feeblest piece sophistry I've see in along time. In this instance, it's totally extraneous as to whether he is truthful or not. “The Relevance of Intention in Argument Evaluation; The major consequence of the responsibility condition is that the speaker, because he is answerable for what he has said,... FOR OUR PURPOSES, IT IS WHAT THE SPEAKER CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THAT COUNTS, NOT WHAT HE PRIVATELY THINKS.”
“Stick to..” Further example of your complete dishonesty.” Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat (the burden of proof lies with who declares, not who denies) it.” Your sucking is getting feebler by the minute, I guess your lips must be really tired by now?
Have you completely lost your mind? You were trying (and failing) to prove JB is a liar, not that he 'could be held accountable', whatever that is supposed to mean. Whether someone was truthful or not is kinda relevant to the question of whether they were lying, dumbo.
Jan 24th, 2019 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But this is a waste of time. I've seen flatworms with a greater capacity to learn than you, you have as much common sense as a fly that keeps buzzing at the closed half of a window, and you 're the only person I know who could fail the Turing test. And those aren't even your worse features!
Scream and froth all you want, I'm gonna wait for someone with a thought in their head to post, and meanwhile brush up on my flattery, because that effort was pathetic.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 24th, 2019 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Have you completely...” More sophistry loser, it is you that claims “you have to prove intent ...” when there is absolutely no such requirement. I have provided an absolute authority that defeats your invention “The Relevance of Intention in Argument Evaluation”.
So there you've lost, but then I never expected congratulations from someone who has the same ethical standards as the liar you vainly try to rehabilitate.
THE GUARDIAN:
Jan 25th, 2019 - 12:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Bolsonaro's Davos debut overshadowed by growing scandal around son”:
https://i0.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Filho-do-Lula-e-do-Bolsonaro.jpg?fit=795%2C525&ssl=1
@DT
Jan 25th, 2019 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, if the police aren’t available, I guess it’s everyone for themselves. Don’t know what the ratio of people to guns is in the countryside, but I’d presume most are armed… probably a lot of illegal weapons, but nevertheless armed, and ready to defend whatever they consider their property.
Terry must be nuts, Have never read so much shit….his statement “Regardless, I have proved my assertion well beyond a standard of a 'reasonable doubt ”', sums up his arrogance and lack of intelligence, pretty well.
His belief that I wanted the army to take over, perhaps referring to 1964, is crap, because it just happened …overnight ; the choice then was to like it or lump it….or when Dilma started to go crazy, it seemed like a probability which many people saw as a better alternative than her remaining in power…..but anyway, I prefer a “serious” government (even with a few Generals, as B’s, as they are highly qualified for the positions they occupy), and relatively free of ideology, because when ideology contaminates the economy, things go down the drain fast.
Let the idiot believe what he wants, afaic, his opinion (when he is capable of expressing one of his own) is irrelevant.
Before writing “revindicating”, I too was in doubt, but looked for and found it in the definition of “revindication”, i.e., ‘the act of revindicating’, in Websters New Twentieth Century Dictionary …’to lay claim to, to vindicate again’…
JB
Jan 25th, 2019 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your slant on your reasons, doesn't matter it isn't relevant. I have provided an absolute authority that defeats your reliance on 'intent' at all. “The Relevance of Intention in Argument Evaluation” states it quite clearly “IT IS WHAT THE SPEAKER CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THAT COUNTS, NOT WHAT HE PRIVATELY THINKS”
Thus your claims “Military dictatorship', ..history is showing,.. that it was good for Brazil” and “Am pretty sure that military are accompanying all this … I hope they DO take over..”. Labels yourself as a supporter of a dictatorship, and such people are called fascists. Your 'outed' by your own expressed opinion, there is nothing to debate.
@JB
Jan 25th, 2019 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“if the police aren’t available, I guess it’s everyone for themselves”
Not ideal. And the same problem as them being unable to stop deforestation. Guess that's the downside of having such a big country.
Of course Terry's nuts, and hasn't a single original thought of his own; we've both known that for ages. I shouldn't've argued with him, it always ends with him losing badly, then declaring victory anyway, but I was bored.
You know I don't agree with you about the army, I think there's very few circumstances where it's better than the alternative. And you can't get away from ideology. Capitalism is an ideology, the Chicago school is an ideology. All you do is exchange one for another. And do you really want to get rid of it? The most bipartisan thing in Brazil is the corruption, politicians from all parties can join together in that.
Re revindicating, I've only seen vindicate mean to clear of a crime, or otherwise prove someone right who was doubted, and I'm pretty well read. But anyway, it's exactly like I said; using the (long, Latin) cognate when there is a shorter, much more common word in English.
What did you think of that line from our newsletter that I posted in the 'VZ in conflict of powers' thread?
@Liar
“Such people are called fascists” by you. It's nothing but your opinion.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 26th, 2019 - 12:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Terry's nuts..”Apparently not as I have more than adequately shown your shooting from the hip claims are utter rubbish.
“it always ends with him..” You wish, as our last encounter showed you getting your clock cleaned. http://en.mercopress.com/2019/01/17/bolsonaro-and-macri-agree-to-review-and-perfect-mercosur-and-advance-trade-talks-with-eu/comments#comment497417
“Such people are called fascists” by all and sundry as you are unable to prove an exception.
Therefore one does not exist.
Fascist “a person who advocates a particular viewpoint or practice in a manner perceived as intolerant or authoritarian” Oxford English Dictionary v4.0.app
I don't have to prove an exception. It's your claim, you have the burden of proof.
Jan 26th, 2019 - 12:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 26th, 2019 - 12:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0“you have the burden of proof”. Which is proved by the OED definition of “a manner perceived as intolerant or authoritarian” verified by his own words ”Military dictatorship', ..that it was good for Brazil” I'd say his perceived manner is crystal clear, doesn't get any clearer.
@Deluded Terry
Jan 26th, 2019 - 11:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Could you be any more wrong?
1. Your quote says nothing about lying, it's about evaluating arguments. You can say an argument is wrong but that does not prove someone lied; otherwise YOU would be a liar whenever you made a 'mistake of fact'.
2. I looked at the OED website and it gives 3 definitions for fascist, and that is not one of them.
3. It's a colloquial definition which could equally apply to a communist, or religious extremist, thereby rendering the word meaningless.
4. The 'perceived' in your definition means it can only ever be an opinion as to whether someone fits it anyway.
5. You definition says nothing about supporting a military government, so it is irrelevant to the matter at hand.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 26th, 2019 - 11:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0“1. Your quote says nothing about lying”
“The Relevance of Intention in Argument Evaluation” states it quite clearly “IT IS WHAT THE SPEAKER CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THAT COUNTS, NOT WHAT HE PRIVATELY THINKS” So truth or intention are irrelevant.
”2. I looked at the OED website ..“ So what, you need to check out the cited source Oxford English Dictionary v4.0.app for mac.
So 3, 4, and 5 are totally irreverent sophisms. ”... the notion of intentionality has been challenged from various theoretical perspectives within rhetoric and argumentation.The major consequence of the responsibility condition is that the speaker, because he is answerable for what he has said, may be deemed to act as if he were sincere – whether he actually is sincere or not. FOR OUR PURPOSES, IT IS WHAT THE SPEAKER CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THAT COUNTS, NOT WHAT HE PRIVATELY THINKS.“
So liar who has the same ethical standards as you, whom you are vainly try to rehabilitate is unredeemable. ”All the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't ...”
@DT
Jan 26th, 2019 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You know I don't agree with you about the army, I think there's very few circumstances where it's better than the alternative”.....
Well, we're gonna have to disagree. When you have lived under the threat of communism, or at least perceived it as a threat, you tell me whether the alternative - whatever it may be - is better of not...i.e., after the alternative actually materializes.
“Capitalism is an ideology, the Chicago school is an ideology”....if you are going to split hairs, everything is an ideology...even if I decide to let my hair grow down to my shoulders, or have acrew cut...I'd say Capitalism is a “choice” (by a govt), controlled by either the private sector, or the State...someone, or something has to own the means of production...if the state does, you get a situation like in the USSR...but if that's what YOU prefer, no point in arguing.
And corruption is a choice, and is present under any type of political ideology;
“Revindicating”, no matter how clumsy it might sound to you, does exist, at least in the US's main dictionary; The word “reivindicar”, in Portuguese, means exactly the same as “revindicate” in the US. +
Re “VZ in conflict..” thread)...newsletter line...
“The rhythm that is considered as one of the main cultural manifestations of our country is one of the most touched in the southeast region.”
Looks like the word “touched” is the literal translation of past tense of “tocar”, and “played” would be the correct translation ;
Also, “as”, is inserted in the middle of “considered as one of.” - IMO, the word “as” is redundant, like it is, if used in Portuguese ; probably having been translated from how a Brazilian would typically say “é considerado 'como' uma das principais manifestações culturais…”, it would be better said without the “como” and become “é considerado uma das principais manifestações culturais”. So, I'd say it's a translation from Portuguese, or Spanish, by a person still not too familiar with English.
@JB
Jan 26th, 2019 - 11:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And when you're not living under threat of communism? That quote of yours was from Dilma's second term, and although Brazil had problems at the time (and still does), there was no chance of a communist takeover.
Hair as an ideology, lol. Maybe for the hippies it was, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And IMO capitalism is way better than the alternatives, though it needs to be controlled by a government to prevent abuses. Don't you think corruption is kind of a cultural thing, though? You wouldn't try and bribe a policeman if you were stopped for speeding in the UK, would you?
It's okay, I believe you that 'revindicating' is a real word. Only most people would use 'claiming'. And you're right about that line from the newsletter, it was written by members of our Brazilian team last week; it rotates around the company and as a result around the world. They speak English well enough, but you can easily see the clues to their native language. A French speaker, for example, would not have written that.
Is the 'como' optional in Portuguese too, then? Sounds like you think that's bad writing in itself?
@The Liar
“So truth or intention are irrelevant.”
Says it all. Truth is irrelevant to you, 'winning' an argument is all you care about.
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