MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Bolsonaro pays tribute to Brazilian and Paraguayan military rulers
Jair Bolsonaro paid tribute to the former dictators of Brazil and Paraguay this week at a ceremony to celebrate the Itaipu hydroelectric dam. The Brazilian president, who has spoken previously of his admiration for the military dictatorship that ruled his nation from 1964 to 1985, praised former Paraguayan dictator Alfredo Stroessner as a “man of vision.” Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rules“Figueiredo, who served from 1979-85, was the dictator who restored democracy when he stood down as president”..
Feb 28th, 2019 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Something sounds wrong.....'the dictator who restored democracy' ? never heard of a 'dictator' voluntarily restoring democracy....the press just loves to be wrong.
Why is a military president called a 'dictator' while a civilian dictator is called 'president' ?
@Jack Bauer
Mar 01st, 2019 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “Why is a military president called a 'DICTATOR' while a civilian dictator is called 'PRESIDENT'?”:
Truly EXCELLENT observation, Jack!
You really touched a sensitive vein!
Do you recall a recent incident by Ricardo Vélez Rodríguez - how a vast majority reacted promptly to an extent that THE Honorable A-Hole had to withdraw his “Brilliant Idea”?
https://i0.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Ministro-da-educacao-colombiano.jpg?resize=580%2C420&ssl=1
Well, the story BEGINS there!
The incident involving the Honorable A-Hole really was nothing all THAT great, and still there was a prompt & very effective adverse reaction to it!
So My Point is that, similar vigilance is totally absent by these “supposed” guardians of Law+Order; when it comes to the Wallets-Fattening of the shady politicians [innumerable] + their parties; and that too at the cost of the Living-Standards of the masses [already miserable]!
So My Question is:
Where do these Super-Humans disappear when they really ARE needed to make a “REAL DIFFERENCE”?
@:o))
Mar 01st, 2019 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Do you recall a recent incident by Ricardo Vélez Rodríguez - ”
Yes, his 'brilliant' idea was really quite stupid, but innocuous....yet, all the leftist worms stuck their heads out of the rotten wood work to show how “horrified” they were....imagine, obliging kids to sing the National Anthem on the first day of the school term.....NEVER !!!!! ABSOLUTELY NOT !!!! .... but these same caring worms had no qualms about indoctrinating 6 and 7 year olds with political ideology...on the first to the last day of term.
“Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Mar 01st, 2019 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”Yes, his 'brilliant' idea was” I man of your intelligence and integrity is wasted here. This present government should be able to use your talents and certain political acumen to good use, you'd fit right in. If you need a reference, I'd be happy to testify that you have safeguarded every 'reactionary' chestnut.
Terry the useful idiot, aka Gollum
Mar 01st, 2019 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse -1With all due respect, why don't you just STFU ? Is no one allowed an opinion if it doesn't agree with yours (?), or whatever you call it, given you don't even know what an opinion is.
Just to prove you are an idiot, had I defended Velez-Rodriguez you would have been upset.....and you are also upset because I didn't ....“qual é a tua, ô idiota” ?
.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Mar 01st, 2019 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse -2“Is no one allowed an opinion”
“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” Harlan Ellison
“In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” Napoleon Bonaparte
@Jack Bauer / @Terence Hill
Mar 01st, 2019 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0True - that's why, my question was:
Where do these Super-Humans disappear when they really ARE needed to make a “REAL DIFFERENCE”?
But that too was NOTHING!
In the senate [just an example (well, not in senate alone)] there are crooks [some under suspicious + the others actually sentenced /convicted /condemned] - are ALL the well-known crooks in short (A. N. as one?)!
It's simply because they actually get elected but NOBODY MINDS - least of all, the worms who vote for them - the same worms who then celebrate the victory of the crooks on winning an election!
I'm sorry, but I suspect that I'm too retarded to understand the logic behind such blatant absurdities. But as quoted: “In politics, stupidity isn't a handicap.” - relieves me of my suspicion!
Thanx to: Napoleon Bonaparte
https://i1.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Canrval-no-Congresso-Nacional.jpg?resize=768%2C588&ssl=1
Stroessner was a“Man of vision?” Christ, what kind of drugs did they send him home with from the hospital?
Mar 02nd, 2019 - 07:09 am - Link - Report abuse +2: If the politicians [crooks] CONTINUE to fool around
Mar 02nd, 2019 - 10:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0: If the masses ACCEPT the fooling around of the crooks:
https://www.otempo.com.br/image/contentid/policy:1.2142279:1551305417/CHARGE%20O%20TEMPO.JPG?f=3x2&w=620&$p$f$w=ac4ac92
Terry, aka Gollum
Mar 02nd, 2019 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion”........
And I suppose it's Gollum who judges whether my opinion is informed or not....right ?
You are hilarious...but continue to be ignorant.
So Napoleon said 'stupidity in politics' is not an advantage....and ?
@:o))
By 'super humans' I presume you mean our politicians.....and they would make a 'real difference' if they didn't exist.......just like poor Gollum, above, “a young man of Cape Horn who wished he had never been born...”
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Mar 02nd, 2019 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“Who judges whether my opinion is informed or not?”
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Here's more of your exonerated self in full view.
http://en.mercopress.com/2018/04/04/brazil-s-conundrum-army-chief-twits-good-citizens-repudiate-impunity-and-respect-the-constitution/comments#comment486481
Terry, aka Gollum (the slimy, albino cockroach)
Mar 02nd, 2019 - 08:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let's see why you are getting soooo confused.....your 'vomit' started because I expressed an opinion that Velez-Rodriguez's idea was not very smart...or, “quite stupid”.
You then told me I don't have the right to an opinion....only to an “informed” opinion.
So exactly what in my opinion (that Velez made a mistake) is “uninformed” ???
Now you say I AM entitled to my opinion - 'making real progress, eh Gollum” ? - but not entitled to my own facts (accdng to DPMoynihan, 'n Gollum)......so I presume you believe that my opinion that Velez pissed out the pot, is “my own fact”.......is that it Gollum ?
Make up your mind, idiot ......or are you truly lost in your thoughts ?
You know, Confucius once said that a 'man who gets lost in his thoughts, is because he doesn't know that terittory too well”....suits you down to a T.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Mar 02nd, 2019 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse -2“Because I expressed an opinion that Velez-Rodriguez's idea was not very smart...” Thats your assumption, I personally couldn't give a hoot what he was. I was inspired by your political acumen or paranoia. That what ever the occasion, you manage give rise to your own political prejudices. Even though no one has criticised the persons praised in the article. It is you that claims that I have stated “no one allowed an opinion” when I did not. When you started mistakenly blathering on about it, I only then responded. As it seemed an appropriate response to factual less propaganda. “Now you say” I know what your opinionated blusterings are, rubbish. But, I hadn't particularly commented on them as they were 'self-evident' as to what they are like.
”Where I wrote “You associate fascism with conservatism”.........and what do you reply ? Instead of something reasonable (too much to expect fm you), you state “I associate fascism with those whom have given nothing but support for the dictatorship and wished for its return”…, and you appear to associate fascism to all dictatorships
http://en.mercopress.com/2018/04/04/brazil-s-conundrum-army-chief-twits-good-citizens-repudiate-impunity-and-respect-the-constitution/comments#comment486762
REF: Jack Bauer
Mar 02nd, 2019 - 10:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: By 'super humans' I presume you mean our politicians
NO! I men THESE:
https://www.pragmatismopolitico.com.br/2017/04/os-108-nomes-da-lista-de-fachin.html
@:o))
Mar 03rd, 2019 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse +1“Super humans”....the STF crowd ? with 3 or 4 exceptions, all sh*ts. It's all about 'politics before Justice' with them.
@Gollum
“Thats your assumption, I personally couldn't give a hoot what he was”
Really ? MY assumption ?...but what you objected to, was what I wrote, i.e., my opinion of his latest actions ('quite stupid', 'not very smart').
You were inspired by my “political acumen or paranoia”.......don't see what “political acumen” has to do with being able to read the news, watch it on TV, but I see you are inspired by the most banal of events.....
and to express an opinion that Velez-Rodriguez was not 'too-smart', is “paranoia” ?
“That what ever the occasion, you manage give rise to your own political prejudices”.
So expressing my opinion that V-R was 'not very smart', is a political “prejudice” ?
“Even though no one has criticised the persons praised in the article”....
You ARE nuts, the article on V-R posted by ':o))' was all about criticism of his actions.....
Gollum, IF you MUST post any comments, I suggest you first engage that 'smelly brown' matter in your head. None of your posts make sense. And try to stick to the subject, don't go off at a tangent about crap that no one is talking about. But I suppose that is what happens when all you eat is garbage.
@JB
Mar 03rd, 2019 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Why is a military president called a 'dictator' while a civilian dictator is called 'president' ?”
It's more obvious when the president was installed by the military that he's a dictator. Civilian dictators often have dodgy or fake elections to try and give them legitimacy. But which were you thinking of who aren't called dictators?
Re “UK Border force”:
“Why should the Coast Guard pick up the illegals ?”
Cos they'll likely capsize and drown or get hit by a ship if they stay in the channel. It would be especially dangerous to send them back if they were near the English side. You can't have the coastguard responsible for deaths. But they need to stop them benefitting from it or more and more will try.
“the majority of those who have enough drive to keep on studying, usually need to work as well.”
That's not so good, but someone has to pay. Is it better to get loans and pay later like we do, or to work and do a part-time degree? Maybe students don't perform their best if they're working, but employers do want experience. Like you having to get a worse paying job just to prove you could do it - I'm sure it helped after you graduated.
Re the debt, was the government really paying 20%? Normally they get much better rates than private borrowers. And what was the inflation rate at the time? Presume the central bank raised interest rates because inflation was above the desired amount. I'd be leery of getting a loan in dollars because the exchange rate can fluctuate so much - just look what happened after the Brexit vote.
It's true you have more of a responsibility with other people's money, to do the best thing rather than pleasing yourself, but I'd like to know where you are getting the numbers from (hopefully not the same place that claimed Lula paid the debt in 2008!) I couldn't find any articles from the time that went into details.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Mar 03rd, 2019 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse -2“IF you MUST post any comments,” So when shown that your post is totally all at sea, blame the other guy for your inadequacies. Sorry I forgot about your limitations.
“to explore the controversial connection between low intelligence and prejudice, and at this point they have overcome most of the methodological barricades, allowing them to rigorously analyze and answer this important societal question. Two of these researchers—Kristof Dhont of Ghent University, Belgium, and Gordon Hodson of Brock University, in Canada—have been studying the idea and synthesizing the work of others, and they summarize the fruits of this ongoing project in a forthcoming issue of the journal Current Directions in Psychological Science. The short answer is yes—there is a clear, predictable and causal link between low intelligence and prejudice, including racism.
...Studies have found, for example, that children with poor mental skills grow up to be strongly right-wing adults....Considerable evidence shows that conservative ideology predicts all sorts of prejudice—against ethnic and racial minorities, the disadvantaged, any outgroup. Indeed, right wingers are much more likely to see outgroups as a threat to traditional values and social order, resulting in heightened prejudice. Dhont and Hodson tested and confirmed this mediation model: Lower childhood intelligence clearly predicts right-wing ideology and attitude, which in turn predicts prejudice in adulthood.”
https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/were-only-human/is-racism-just-a-form-of-stupidity.html
To all whom this may concern:
Mar 03rd, 2019 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On behalf of all albino cockroaches scurrying rapidly throughout their filthy habitats, we demand Señor Jack Bauer retract his terrible slander and insult to our noble race by associating with the GOLLUM excrement that uses the alias Terrence Hill.
Even a common cockroach has dignity, and our albino lineage makes us far too noble to be defamed. We demand an immediate retraction.
I find it enlightening that GOLLUM would refer to the infamous and clearly evil demonic Daniel Patrick Moynihan who was best described as an apparition of Lucifer himself. “There can be no individual on earth as evil as he” was commented by his own countrymen that aptly cited the text of the satanic verse in which Moynihan, “The Devil's favorite demon, is sent from hell to earth for his disobedience of law and transformed into a politician.” It shows there is no simple distinction between good and evil: “normal politicians can commit horrible acts when the combination of elements identifies Moynihan fall into place.” - Robert F. Kennedy, Former United States Attorney General
Chicureo the flamer
Mar 03rd, 2019 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“To all whom” Thank you for reconfirming my previous post. The fact that your unable to meet your burden of proof of your claim confirms you're a confirmed liar, which was predictable.
“Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy; States of Affairs; First published Tue Mar 27, 2012
Philosophers connect sentences with various items, such as thoughts, facts and states of affairs. Thoughts are either true or false in an absolute sense, never both or neither.“
plato.stanford.edu/entries/states-of-affairs/
”Amazing how all you reactionaries have one thing in common, maligning those that don't agree with you. Must be a result of “Lower childhood intelligence clearly (which)predicts right-wing ideology and attitude...”
ht*p://en.mercopress.com/2018/10/07/kavanaugh-sworn-to-the-supreme-court-another-victory-for-trump-and-his-conservative-stance/comments#comment493216
@Jack Bauer
Mar 03rd, 2019 - 11:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They really ARE “Super-Humans” simply by their deeds or rather in spite of their misdeeds, they are able draw a huge crowd of fans - admirers, faithfuls & believers - and continue to fool them [milking them in fact - for ages] fearless of any repercussions whatsoever - THAT certainly qualifies them as the super “Super-Humans”!
http://www.gazetadepiracicaba.com.br/_midias/jpg/2018/10/15/cha16102018_02-8757872.jpg
EITHER THAT or THE IGNORANT+MISERABLE voters ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE STATE OF AFFAIRS!
Notice how GOLLUM doesn't deny that cockroaches consider being defamed by association? Does not GOLLUM understand that the late RFK was not a credible source to quote? GOLLUM is pathetic...
Mar 04th, 2019 - 01:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Chicureo the flamer
Mar 04th, 2019 - 02:02 am - Link - Report abuse -2“Does not ... understand that” You couldn't fathom an onus from your anus, I see you've stepped on that rake head and smacked yourself in the face with the handle again.
You just take care of fostering that close relationship with your mother, instead of attempting to project those unwanted feelings onto others.
“Psychological projection is a defence mechanism people subconsciously employ in order to cope with difficult feelings or emotions. Psychological projection involves projecting undesirable feelings or emotions onto someone else, rather than admitting to or dealing with the unwanted feelings.”
https://www.everydayhealth.com/emotional.../psychological-projection-dealing-with-un...
GOLLUM (aka Terrence Hill)is simply full of excrement!
Mar 04th, 2019 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0On behalf of all albino cockroaches scurrying rapidly throughout their filthy habitats, they demand we denounce the presence of GOLLUM from this conversation As his mere presence is a terrible insult to their noble race by associating with the GOLLUM excrement that uses the alias Terrence Hill.
Even a common cockroach has dignity, and our albino lineage makes us far too noble to be defamed. We demand an immediate retraction.
GOLLUM fixates on nasty individuals such as the infamous and clearly evil demonic Daniel Patrick Moynihan who was best described as an apparition of Lucifer himself. “There can be no individual on earth as evil as he” was commented by his own countrymen that aptly cited the text of the satanic verse in which Moynihan, “The Devil's favorite demon, is sent from hell to earth for his disobedience of law and transformed into a politician.” It shows there is no simple distinction between good and evil: “normal politicians can commit horrible acts when the combination of elements identifies Moynihan fall into place.” - Robert F. Kennedy, Former United States Attorney General
Chicureo the flamer
Mar 04th, 2019 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“Does not ... understand that the late RFK was not a credible source to quote” Of cause I do, but it's not my burden to prove or disprove. Your quote, that's your sole responsibility for the lack of veracity.
If you're gonna be a smartass, first you have to be smart. Otherwise you're just an ass.
“individuals such as the infamous...” Aha the old no proof, no truth minuet. Thats ok, just keep exposing yourself as a liar and a buffoon, on a public forum. Must be a slow day on the farm as you've repeated yourself. But then truth and originality are not your strong points.
GOLLUM (aka Terrence Hill) is a odorous bag of EXCREMENT.
Mar 04th, 2019 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse +1All the mendacious slimy creature can do is:
Whine....
......Whine...
.................Whine...
That’s all he can do. Whine. The whiner needs to get some backbone,
Meanwhile on behalf of all the albino cockroaches scurrying rapidly throughout their filthy habitats, they demand we denounce the presence of GOLLUM from this conversation as his mere presence is a terrible insult to their noble race by associating with the GOLLUM excrement that uses: Terrence Hill.
Even a common cockroach has dignity, and their albino lineage makes us far too noble to be defamed as a creature such as Terrence Hill, they demand an immediate retraction.
GOLLUM fixates on nasty individuals such as the infamous and clearly evil demonic Daniel Patrick Moynihan who was best described as an apparition of Lucifer himself. “There can be no individual on earth as evil as he” was commented by his own countrymen that aptly cited the text of the satanic verse in which Moynihan, “The Devil's favorite demon, is sent from hell to earth for his disobedience of law and transformed into a politician.” It shows there is no simple distinction between good and evil: “normal politicians can commit horrible acts when the combination of elements identifies Moynihan fall into place.” - Robert F. Kennedy, Former United States Attorney General
Again, all the mendacious slimy creature can do is:
Whine....
......Whine...
.................Whine...
That’s all he can do. Whine. He's a whiner...
Chicureo the flamer
Mar 04th, 2019 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse -1That’s all you can do is make an argumentum ad hominem. “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Christopher Hitchens
“The best way to win an argument is to begin by being right.” Jill Ruckeshaus
“The fewer the facts, the stronger the opinion” Arnold H. Glasow
If your IQ was any lower, you'd need watering.
If you could suck your own dick then you would finally suck at everything.
DT
Mar 04th, 2019 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“”Why is a military president called a 'dictator' while a civilian dictator is called 'president' ?”” Just a rhetorical question, only to point out that most people don't stop to question why they support the general public perception instead of their ‘own’.
Which ? The press always refers to Bolsonaro as ”far-right“, implying his military past makes him a virtual dictator, while Maduro, is just ”president“...was just a thought, not meant to be the object of heated debate.
”Cos they'll likely capsize ‘n drown, get hit by a ship if they stay in the channel.“ Yes, that's the obvious answer, but going a bit further, why doesn't the 'French' govt prevent them from leaving?
”the majority of those who have enough drive to keep on studying, usually need to work as well.” By that I wasn't inferring it was good, bad or otherwise, simply correcting your “Seems to be something Brazil does better”. My previous experience did in fact help a lot in landing my first full-time job (at Ford).
Rgding the debt, sorry, made a mistake : presumed all in US$ when in R$ - new nbrs : he paid off R$ 212 billion, which was costing 4%, or R$ 8.48 billion interest/year. Internalized, at the 'then' prime rate of 19,5%, it started to pay R$ 41,34 billion/year (to local banks), 4.8 times as much, equal to a net loss of R$ 32,86 billion year. Still a significant loss. Besides the following link, I read all about it in detail in the main papers. See :-https://www.jornaldacidadeonline.com.br/.../a-grande-mentira-do-pagamento-da-divid...
('n other links by “folhapolitica.org”, “politicaedireito.org”).
Official 2008 inflation ? a mere 5,9 % (within the target, 4,5 - 6,5 %).
The exchange rate was pretty stable, USD coming in, no scare on the horizon. The only times the exchange rate went haywire was when Lula was elected 'n Dilma was impeached...PT linked events.
Chicureo (& DT)
The cockroach is undernourished and demented.... now he's into anus'....and sucking for all he's worth.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Mar 04th, 2019 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Whats that sucking sound?
Oh cuddle up, birds of a feather flock together.
@JB
Mar 04th, 2019 - 11:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Far right does not automatically mean dictator, any more than far left does (but perhaps you disagree?)
“why doesn't the 'French' govt prevent them from leaving?”
Don't see how they could monitor every small boat that might try to cross; they don't need a port, can just land on a beach somewhere. And there's no pressing benefit for them in doing so, either. It's not like they want refugees or illegal immigrants.
Re university, just the fact you can easily study part time seems better. It's often impossible to do a given course that way in the UK, and you'll probably end up going to a worse university and get a less valuable degree, as well as working harder.
I read the article; appears to be conflating two things: paying off the IMF credit in 2005 and the foreign debt in 2008 (did that really happen?) Besides that, it seems to be saying Lula borrowed from the IMF again later, which as far as I can discover is not true. Wish I could find the raw figures. It gives debt as percentage of GDP in 2008 but not the other years, so how can we sensibly compare?
Looking for real data, this seems to show interest as a % of revenue was relatively flar until 2015:
data.worldbank.org/indicator/GC.XPN.INTP.RV.ZS?locations=BR&view=chart
Not that that is great; with the economy doing so well the government should have paid down the debt, but it didn't go up drastically, and nor is it as high as the article claims.
And I still don't understand why rates on government borrowing would be nearly 20%, when the economy was doing well and inflation not too high. You could get better rates borrowing on a credit card!
Also I wonder why they picked such a high band band? Ours is 1% - 3%, not that they've done a good job of hitting it in the last decade.
As for the cockroach, he's obviously sad cos he has no one to cuddle up to (Lula being in jail). Think I worked out what the sucking sound was, though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9eeWxsnuLI
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Mar 05th, 2019 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not the one needing to constantly curry approval.
You stick with your Tripartite buddies, its good that you don't let your mind wander; it's far too small to be let out on its own.
You have delusions of adequacy. (Walter Kerr)
The Carnival - An ORGY - is ABOUT to start:
Mar 05th, 2019 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://i1.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Reforma-Jair-Politicos.jpg?resize=580%2C420&ssl=1
@DT
Mar 05th, 2019 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”Far right doesn't automatically mean dictator, any more than far left does (but perhaps you disagree?)“. No, I don't disagree. You may recall that a few weeks ago I said something to the same effect, that authoritarian governments are not the privilege of the right.
”Don't see how they could monitor every small boat that might try to cross“
Agree that FRA is just to pleased to get rid of them, but in the spirit of ”EU cooperation” (wishful thinking ?) what abt monitoring by satellite ? Some will always get through 'n as long as someone is willing to go out 'n save them (UK), they'll keep on trying.
Re Univ, the studying is not part-time....you study full-time, in the morning, in the afternoon, or at night. The night period is usually shorter by one hour 'n takes 1 more year (to graduate) than the other two periods. So, you can work full time 'n study at night, or study in either of the other two periods 'n get a part-time job.
Rgrdng the foreign debt, showed the situation at a given moment, when the debt WAS actually paid off...as far as I gather, after gloating about his fantastic achievement, he took more (foreign) loans to pay for his 'social' policies -
https://politicaedireito.org/.../o-que-lula-fez-de-2002-a-2010-com-a-divida-internaextern...
The prime rate (lowest interest rate banks charge at a particular time, 'n available to only certain customers) was 19,5% per year at the time. To put it in perspective, any individual would pay an average of 8,7% p/ month on the outstanding balance in a checking account, reaching 175% / year ; personal loans averaged 5,5% per month...credit cards, at roughly 15/16% p/month (+/- 500% p/year) were far worse.
After Dilma, Temer reduced inflation, 'n the prime rate (now 6,5% p/yr)
Govt has always been dependent on the banks 'n their lobby has always claimed it has to charge high rates to cover defaulting.
I'm pretty sure that the sound Gollum is hearing, is from his own sucking.....Lula won't mind.
“what abt monitoring by satellite?”
Mar 05th, 2019 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know how feasible that would be, but if it was possible and economic wouldn't the UK be doing it already? EU cooperation ought to mean returning anyone caught crossing to France, but I don't know if they've even tried to do this. France has cooperated a fair bit in the past; they know if people can get into the UK it will just attract even more migrants to Calais.
“you study full-time, in the morning, in the afternoon, or at night”
Sounds like part time to me. We had lectures scheduled anytime between 9am and 6pm, so if you needed to work it had to be evenings and weekends. There's no way you could hold a full time job and also study. Did you also have exercises, essays etc to complete outside those half-days?
Re the debt, makes sense Lula borrowed more later, but not from the IMF; they're for emergencies. Your link didn't work but I googled it. TBH it doesn't seem the most reliable. As one of the comments says, the debt ought to be compared to GDP, and it would be useful to translate it into US$ too. Besides that the welfare programs were/are a very small part of government spending and cannot be responsible for all the foreign borrowing.
Your interest rates were insane. How can anyone afford to borrow at that rate, if it's not due to inflation? What about mortgages? And government borrowing is different to lending to individuals or companies, no? Governments don't take bank loans, they issue bonds etc and investors buy them - assuming they're not insolvent like Argentina after the crisis. And they usually offer a lower rate of interest since they're more secure than other investments.
DT
Mar 05th, 2019 - 10:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“don't know how feasible it'd be”. Ok, but how much do illegals cost the taxpayer, once in ? they're a burden until - 'n IF - they ever become productive citizens ; am sure the UK doesn't have a lot of idle capacity 'n can absorb them w/o stretching already limited resources (?). Perhaps rounding them up, as they're “saved”, confining them in one town on the SE coast (not jail, in case you thought that), vet them, allowing the 'useful' in, 'n every time the nbr of those unfit to come in, reaches +/- 500, put them on a ferry 'n ship them back to France... which would no doubt be mercilessly criticized by all the bleeding hearts..
School year comprises of at least 200 days, AM & PM periods of 5 hours each, reduced to 4 at night. What's part-time abt that ? No university here is 9 to 5 (except perhaps medical school)...you took the classes, studied if you wanted to, would be tested on bimonthly basis, the last test having the greatest weight. Minimum attendance is required ; lectures - if any - were scheduled during the 'period'. In the last year you submitted your thesis, which with the final exams, determined yr fate.
Rgdng the debt, i'm not going to get into comparing it to GDP, as that's a whole different cup of tea. I'm referring to a purely financial decision, whereby, w/o the slightest need, he liquidated the foreign debt (only to start borrowing again), adding it to the internal one, w/ shorter terms 'n FAR higher rates. By any standard, unnecry 'n eminently populist. The increased interest bill (R$ 31 bill/year) chewed up revenue which should've been used more productively. Next loans may not have been fm the IMF, however, making ends meet on borrowed money means paying more/higher interest.
Insane's a good description. Ok, govts don't walk into a bank 'n ask for a loan...they sell bonds, to banks 'n private investors, at 19,5 % / year. Welfare was small, but tt's not the point.
Bank interest on mortgages was far smaller...because so was the risk.
@JB
Mar 06th, 2019 - 02:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“how much do illegals cost the taxpayer, once in ?”
Don't know. Ironically, the ones who come illegally to work are probably less of a burden than the honest asylum seekers, who must survive on benefits while their cases are processed. But nothing else is feasible; if they were allowed to work before being approved, it would be like offering a temporary work visa to anyone who could sneak in, a huge attraction.
Confining them in one town would lead to massive complaints from residents. Our government tries to spread asylum seekers around to share the burden, and AFAIK the ones who come on boats are treated the same as those who sneak in on lorries.
Re the debt, I found several articles from 2008 saying that on the 21st Feb Brazil had enough reserves to pay all the external debt, but none saying it had actually done so. This report is from the end of 2008, and says “Brazil still pays about US $ 15 billion a month in interest only on external debt.”
http://noticias.terra.com.br/retrospectiva/2008/interna/0,,OI3349196-EI12495,00-Brasil+se+torna+credor+internacional+pela+vez.html
Your article seems more and more unreliable. In this report it also says “the reserves are enough to pay off the debt and it was achieved mainly by the strengthening of the international reserves and by the program of repurchase of the foreign debt and anticipation of payments.” I can only assume your author is talking about this repurchase of foreign debt, but it clearly wasn't the full amount. I'd like to find out more about the program, ie what debt was bought by the government and how was it financed, but I'm not having much luck. Googling in a foreign language is hard.
As for debt to GDP, it matters for the other comparisons the article is making. If debt doubles and GDP quadruples, then the country is better able to pay, and better off in general, but we are not given this information. Perhaps because it undermines the author's argument?
@Liar
When you gonna get a mind at all?
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Mar 06th, 2019 - 02:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“When you gonna get a” Thanks for confirmation as to who the liar is here, no proof, no truth.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Christopher Hitchens
Don't have to do much to run rings around you, those lips have got to be getting tired by now.
”There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance Hippocrates
@JB
Mar 06th, 2019 - 03:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ran out of space. Re uni, does that mean morning session was 7am - midday? That would suck. But I don't suppose we had more than 5 hours of lectures a day on average, though labs lasted all day and there was a lot of work to do outside lectures. I guess your courses are at least close to full time, and I think even 4 hours every evening would be hard to fit in with a full time job, but people must manage it. Which session did you pick?
@Ignoramus
“There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance”
I studied science, whereas you read the dictionary and think that's all you need to know. Fool.
DT
Mar 06th, 2019 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lula did pay off foreign debt in 2008..(unnecessarily). That's a fact. Before that, in Dec 2005, he took the decision to pay off the “IMF” debt, anticipating it by 2 years (think it was US$ 15.5 billion)....in this case he did actually used reserves to pay it off....but the question comes back to 'why'.....Because 2006 was election year and Lula wanted to be able to claim that it was the first time in 8 years, that Brazil would be free of the IMF...again, other than to be able to make such a claim, there was no (financially sound) reason for it.
After internalizing the foreign debt in 2008 (equivalent of R$ 212 billion), as I said previously, he started borrowing again....probably not from the IMF, but nevertheless, to pay for what, no one knows....except that it wasn't for infrastructure investments.
Regarding your questions on the debt/GDP ratio, in some circumstances they can be relevant indeed, others not so much.....but in 2008, when he internalized it, the internal debt rose to 65% of GDP.....and interest became absurdly expensive.
It's an extensive subject to discuss, and without all figures on hand in one place, such as debt (foreign/domestic), GDP, interest rates, dates, makes collecting information a bit of a pain in the neck.
Classes were usually 7:30 to 12:30, with a few minutes inbetween to change classrooms.
My first option, which I got, was morning. on three afternoons, I gave private English lessons, which I eventually traded for a half-time job.
“Lula did pay off foreign debt in 2008”
Mar 06th, 2019 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well then, you should be able to find an article from the time saying so, right? As to borrowing more after 2008, another article I read mentioned he planned to do just that, to spend on infrastructure. Good in theory, but I'm guessing most of it didn't materialise?
Re the IMF, I'm guessing the election was part of the reason, the other being to have complete freedom to act, even if not needed at that exact moment.
Agree it's hard to discuss sensibly without having all the data. Cherry picking the figures can give a really misleading view, but there's a lot of stuff to find out and it's hard to get data from more than 10 years ago. I managed to find this which describes the treasury's debt financing strategy for 2008:
http://www.tesouro.fazenda.gov.br/documents/10180/137713/PAF_2008.pdf
Hopefully you can get more out of it than me, since you studied economics and also can actually read it (it's too big for google translate).
Re uni, morning is nice because then you have the rest of the day free, but I think at that age I would have chosen afternoon so I could have a lie-in. Must have been nice to have an easy way of earning good money, though. There's not much call for teaching English when you live in England. ;)
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Mar 06th, 2019 - 10:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I studied science” an uncompleted 'first year' at the local polytec tech isn't much of a credit.
Lol. That's not true, but even if it was, it would still be more than you've ever done. You obviously don't know the first thing about science or any other subject, which would be fine if you didn't keep pretending to be an expert. You could even educate yourself if you wanted, but you're too arrogant to admit you don't know everything already. Without understanding the basics you'll never get anywhere, it's like trying to learn long division without knowing 2 + 2 = 4.
Mar 06th, 2019 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Mar 07th, 2019 - 01:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0“You obviously don't know the first thing ...” Keep pretending to be an expert, is exactly what you have done. Whereas, when I form a conclusion on any subject, unlike you I have the good sense to provide verification from a credible source.
So I'll stay with an accepted format, while you continue to, without any proof to blow your own trumpet.
”There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance” - Hippocrates
Mar 07th, 2019 - 09:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0You think your opinion is worth more than Hippocrates'.
@DemonTree
Mar 07th, 2019 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “Lula did pay off foreign debt in 2008”
How on earth could he do such a stupid thing? Afterall, the debts so generously offered by Brazil to many - too many - beggars; have not-so-mysteriously disappeared AND nobody - neither the masses nor the government is likely to take ANY action to recover such losses - the debts + MANY other [innumerable] losses of different kinds AND in different forms!
https://i1.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/carnavalpolitico2.jpg?w=750&ssl=1
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Mar 07th, 2019 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You think your opinion” Its merely the opinion of one who's is valued, as I haven't proffered one. If I had I would have provided the facts to support it. Otherwise, I would be doing what you do, which is simply opining. Which consists of no proof, no truth.
Hippocrates' opinion is that science leads to knowledge. Does it make you feel inadequate, cockroach?
Mar 07th, 2019 - 02:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Mar 07th, 2019 - 02:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Does it make you feel” fantastic as I get to kick your slavish ass all over the park.
@Terence Hill
Mar 07th, 2019 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “to kick your slavish ass all over the park”
PLEASE:
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DizzySpicyHummingbird-size_restricted.gif
@Dimwit
Mar 07th, 2019 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just out of curiosity, what does your diseased mind think the links I've been posting are if not evidence?
http://noticias.terra.com.br/retrospectiva/2008/interna/0,,OI3349196-EI12495,00-Brasil+se+torna+credor+internacional+pela+vez.html
www.tesouro.fazenda.gov.br/documents/10180/137713/PAF_2008.pdf
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Mar 07th, 2019 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Just out of curiosity” My concern is evidence of your claims against me, which consists entirely of YHO which is not evidence. So besides not addressing what you claim, they are of entirely irrelevant subject matter. In other words more of your lame BS because you can't refute what I claim.
@DT
Mar 07th, 2019 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse +1“Well then, you should be able to find an article from the time saying so, right?”
Why does it have to be from “the time” ? if not from 2008 it's not valid ? I've already posted 2 or 3 later links, to articles on the subject (which if don't open, can be googled)...but at the bottom is one more, from August 2010, 30 months after the “internalization” of the foreign debt in 2008.....pay atention to the 6th, 7th and 8th paragraphs.
Before going there, just want to remind you that in 2006, when Lula paid off the (far smaller) debt with foreign reserves, just 'before the elections', it might have made sense because he used foreign reserves, AND got rid of a debt, which did not imply in far higher interest rates, like when other foreign debt was internalized in 2008..
No one denies that the foreign debt was paid off (by internalization), what's in focus here, is the 'smartness' (or not) of such a move, considering that in 2008 he only transferred the debt (foreign to internal), at higher interest rates ; what's so hard to understand about that ?
The 3 paragraphs I mentioned above confirm that it was 'microeconomically' a bad decision, only being (partially) justified in terms of 'macroeconomics', because it was used as a political/electoral tool....which worked with the lesser informed - his voters.
I don't have to cherry-pick, all articles point in the same direction, just trying to select the ones that don't beat about the bush, which are more to the point.
www.institutomillenium.org.br/artigos/a-farsa-da-quitacao-da-divida-externa
Opened your link…it’s no more than a load of mumbo-jumbo by bull shitter Guido Mantega, end of 2007…”planning directives for 2008, with a view to reduce the cost of public debt, lengthening payment terms….”
Just the opposite happened : internal debt increased, as did the volume of interest paid, and payment terms were shortened…(the foreign debt, while foreign, had longer/easier payment terms).
@JB
Mar 07th, 2019 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Why does it have to be from “the time” ?”
Cause if it happened it would have been reported. The internet was well established in 2008; if no newspaper said at the time that the external debt was all paid off, it's because it didn't happen.
What they said was that some of the external debt was bought back or paid off early, and that reserves were greater than the rest, hence Brazil was a net creditor in Feb 2008. Also they all agree the IMF debt was paid off early, in 2005.
I don't think you are cherry picking, but the authors of those articles obviously are trying to push a point of view, and I don't trust them. That's not to say I think they're making it all up, but I want an unbiased look at the events and figures, and they don't give that.
The Instituto Millenium has different figures again. It's back to talking about the IMF debt, saying a loan with 4% interest was replaced by debts with interest between 8% and 12.75%, and gives an amount of US$12,4 bn (bilião = 1 000 000 000?) for the borrowing. When none of the articles agree, how can we know what really happened?
I'm not sure how good the translation was because bits of it didn't make much sense, but I think I got the gist. I think it's right about the general policy of passing on the debt problem on to future governments, though in the event the crisis came during Dilma's presidency.
Re my link, it's what the government planned to do with the debt in 2008, which as far as I could see did not include paying it all off. You could find out how well they achieved their objectives by comparing to the same report for 2009:
http://www.tesouro.fazenda.gov.br/documents/10180/137713/PAF_2009.pdf
And if you don't trust the official government reports, then it's a mystery where you or the journalists can get accurate figures from. No one else is going to have them.
@Cockroach
So while we're having a sensible discussion about public debt, you're only interested in defending your own ego. Says it all.
@DT
Mar 07th, 2019 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It certainly was reported, perhaps not as ostensibly as the moon landing, but it was...liquidating the foreign debt, not by using foreign reserves (as a couple of years earlier), but by internalizing it.
Why the articles reporting on the internalization of the debt, are dated 2009 'n after, I can't explain.....a wild guess would be that government did not want the farce (switching foreign for internal debt, at higher interest rates) to be blown wide open...and a press that was just too eager to please ? but the fact that many reliable sources (including 'O Globo', 'Fundação Getulio Vargas', 'Epoca') published it later, with no denial from Lula, or the PT, gives it credibility.
https://epocanegocios.globo.com/.../divida-do-brasil-renegociacao-fhc-lula-e-volta-da...
If the abv link does not open, google it (dated 29th Sept 2016)....go scrolling down until you reach the 19th and 20th paragraphs (immediately above a photo of Lula putting the presidential sash on Dilma)...basically they say : “Lula in 2009 bragged, 'isn't it great to be able to lend money to the IMF' ”, and Maria Fattorelli (national coordinator supervising the “Citizen's Debt Audit”), ”to pay it - the foreign debt - we issued (more) external debt and internal debt, at far higher rates. We exchanged cheaper debt , in terms of interest rate, for a more expensive debt”....the cheaper debt being the foreign one, at 4% a year.
The authors are not pushing a 'point of view'....the only 'interpretation' possible is whether it was good for Brazil, or not. IF what they all claim as fact, i.e., that the foreign debt was liquidated by exchanging it for more internal debt, were untrue, then they they would ALL be lying....I'm convinced they weren't / aren't lying.... why don't leftist/PT sites deny it ? or denounce it as fake news ?
It's well-known Guido Mantega was just a puppet, and his 'plans' were not even just wishful thinking, but only something to look good on paper.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Mar 07th, 2019 - 11:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On one hand “we're having a sensible discussion about public debt”. On the other you continue to opine and make personal attacks against me. So don't come with the 'poor little me' and your passive/aggressive nonsense.
“People call it arguing out of both sides of your mouth,“ The Purposeful Argument: A Practical Guide By Harry Phillips, Patricia Bostian.
“you're only interested in defending your own ego” No I'm interested in deflating your over sized ego.
@Jack Bauer
Mar 08th, 2019 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “The 3 paragraphs I mentioned above confirm that .........which worked with the lesser informed - his voters”:
U.N.D.O.U.B.T.E.D.L.Y!
In fact, in too many democracies; the IGNORANT masses are the BIGGEST assets to the politicians!
http://prosaepolitica.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/charge-otario-eleitor.jpg
@JB
Mar 08th, 2019 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I googled your link, it's just talking about the IMF debt again. That was the debt at 4% interest. And in a way Brazil was lending money to the IMF all along; it's a requirement of being a member.
“The authors are not pushing a 'point of view'....the only 'interpretation' possible is whether it was good for Brazil, or not.”
And their interpretation is exactly that it was bad for Brazil. Which may well be true, but they don't all seem too reliable when it comes to the facts. Some are clearly talking about the IMF debt, paid off in 2005, and some perhaps also about the government program to buy back bonds, but that was only a portion of the whole. If you look at economic data sites, they never show Brazil being debt free during that time. The government was boasting in 2008 because the foreign reserves were bigger than the debt, but the debt was still there and continued to grow.
The charts are interesting, though, showing how much the debt was 'internalised' even before Lula, and that he continued the trend. I think the 'Citizen's Debt Audit' would be well worth looking at, but most of it seems to be videos. Muito inacessível. :(
https://auditoriacidada.org.br/
(Does 'previdência' mean pensions or social security or something? Google translates it to 'foresight', but that makes no sense.)
I also had a quick glance through the treasury plan for 2005, but I couldn't see any mention of the FMI. Unhelpful.
@DT
Mar 09th, 2019 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Note, not all of Brazil's foreign debt was owed to the IMF.........the US$ 15,5 billion liquidated in 2005/6 was.... foreign reserves were used, i.e., that part of the debt was truly liquidated, so was interest on it......which, imo made sense, as the foreigh reserves were invested externally, very likely at an interest rate lower than that being paid on the IMF loan.
In 2008, in practical terms, the money to pay off the debt came from the banks in Brazil, (increasing the govt's internal debt), which became the creditors, charging far higher interest rates than if left as foreign debt.
General opinion at the time was that it was totally unnecry ('n politically motivated).
IF (in 2008) the foreign debt had been liquidated using foreign reserves - as there were enough to liquidate all of it, or most - instead internalizing it - purely from a financial point of view it would have made sense, as the principal would've been paid off, and the interest, zeroed... however, from a national security point of view, to spend all your foreign reserves wouldn't have been too sensible....but, with the “foreign debt” paid off (which may still have included some IMF money, I don't know), the country was praised by (the IMF 'n) the foreign banks, which were all too eager to lend more.....by end of 2010, the foreign debt was abt US$ 200 billion (Central Bank estimate).
“Previdencia”, coming from the verb “prever” (to foresee), generally speaking“, implies foresight.....planning ahead....the word ”Previdência” today refers to the social security system (pensions etc), as in the “INSS” (abbreviation I've used before, or, “Instituto Nacional de Seguridade Social”, i.e., Nat'l Institute for Social Security).
You can consult various sites, or links on the debt, while all point in the same direction, the numbers vary slightly (depends on the methodology, time-frame used), resulting in only similar results, which makes filtering through the data, a bit tiring.
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