MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Activist murder arrested suspects have “coincidental” links with President Bolsonaro
Apparent links between Brazilian leader Jair Bolsonaro and two suspects arrested over the murder of rights activist Marielle Franco are believed to be a coincidence, police said on Tuesday, as the President faced scrutiny over the connections. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesREF: “When questioned on the matter by journalists, Mr Bolsonaro said: ”I've had my picture taken with thousands of soldiers all over Brazil”:
Mar 13th, 2019 - 02:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TRUE!
BUT how many of these thousands of “soldiers” live at the SAME ADDRESS as that of the president?
A simple question - similar to the aforesaid - was NEVER asked by ANY media/reporter/investigator!
As always suspected; the Interviews, Investigations, Trials, news, etc. are nothing but a part of ONE BIG FARCE! I assume that Dr. Moro is unaware of THAT:
REF: “There is nothing new about the relationship between the Bolsonaros and militiamen”:
https://www.brasildefato.com.br/2019/01/23/there-is-nothing-new-about-the-relationship-between-the-bolsonaros-and-militiamen/
@:o))
Mar 13th, 2019 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You too, Brutus ??
““When questioned on the matter by journalists, Mr Bolsonaro said: ”I've had my picture taken with thousands of soldiers all over Brazil”.......TRUE....but nevertheless, the press will have a field day with conspiracy theories....
Perhaps they must have nothing more important to write about.....
“ ....a mere coincidence that the second suspect, retired military police officer Ronnie Lessa, shared a residence with Mr Bolsonaro”...
“”Shared a residence“ ?? I'd say kind of inaccurate......same condominium, not same house; this is the kind of irresponsible, bad reporting that leads idiots like the slimy albino cockroach to say sh*t like ”Mourão served in Haiti“, ”Mourão was Gen Heleno's commanding officer in Haiti“, ”Bolsonaro said his wife was weak”.......LOL...
Yesterday, the moment it was announced that one of the suspects lived in the same condo as Bolsonaro had before he was elected, I knew that someone would try to link him to Marielle's execution....when you don't have facts, invent crap.
@Jack Bauer
Mar 13th, 2019 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “I knew that someone would try to link him to Marielle's execution - when you don't have facts, invent crap”:
As you know, being sceptical, my speciality is sarcasm!
Hence:
“As always suspected; the interviews, trials, news, investigations, etc. are nothing but a part of one BIG FARCE!”
REF: “A simple question - similar to the aforesaid - was NEVER asked by ANY media/reporter/investigator!”
Having said that; could there be some possibility of “wherever there smoke.....”? Afterall; The Queiroz Scandal [just ONE of the scandals] still appears to be “active”! Will time tell?
FROM: Reuters:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brazil-politics/scandal-involving-brazil-president-elects-son-clouds-inauguration-idUSKCN1OQ158
Presume it's not the same Queiroz, but it's a pretty spooky that both killers are liked to Bolsonaro in different ways. There he is with his arm around a murderer...
Mar 13th, 2019 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have the police said anything about motive yet?
@DemonTree
Mar 14th, 2019 - 10:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: it's a pretty spooky
SPOOKIER, actually - one coincidence just TOO MANY! Doesn't ANYONE [including the gullible] smell a DEAD rat?
https://brasil.elpais.com/brasil/2019/03/13/politica/1552512657_637780.html?%3Fid_externo_rsoc=TW_BR_CM
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Mar 14th, 2019 - 02:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“This is the kind of irresponsible, bad reporting”
“Mourão served in Haiti;” Thats your invention, because I never claimed that, dipshit.
“Mourão, together with General Augusto Heleno, WERE BRAZIL’S TOP MILITARY COMMANDERS IN ITS DISASTROUS INTERVENTION IN HAITI. ACCORDING TO INTERNATIONAL OBSERVERS AND HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS, THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR MASSACRING DOZENS OF CIVILIANS IN THE SLUMS OF PORT AU PRINCE IN 2006. Now, they stand close to the highest political office in Brazil.”
Bolsonaro’s Most Dangerous Supporters by Aldo Cordeiro/Sauda Benjamin Fogel
https://www.jacobinmag. com/2018/10/bolsonaro-military-pt-haiti-lava-jato-lula
”Bolsonaro said his wife was weak”
Nov 2, 2018 - Bolsonaro, who has five children, has said that his only daughter was born due to his wife's “weakness.”
theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/11/brazil-women-bolsonaro-haddad-election/574792/
You're a regular 'Whac-a-mole' you keep trying to peddle your untruths and I'm able to prove again and again what an unbridled liar you truly are.
@DemonTree
Mar 14th, 2019 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “Odebrecht as a contractor”
REF: Trump/Bolso
As a wild guess/hypothesis by the STD of the most gullible, the most optimistic, the most ignorant, and the most brainwashed: They BOTH are the most efficient, the most serious & the most devoted patriots; who want nothing else that Making THEIR countries GREAT AGAIN!
Let the “novelas” unfold!
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OMoqhxFLmOc/UuahdRXL-GI/AAAAAAAAHz4/rloWjcXGJmc/s1600/charge+duke.jpg
DT
Mar 14th, 2019 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“but it's a pretty spooky that both killers are liked to Bolsonaro in different ways. There he is with his arm around a murderer...”......and there are photos of him with thousands of others...are they all murderers too ?
Your insinuation (if you mean it as that) is about as silly as my saying Adelio Bispo acted under Lula's orders because he used to be affiliated to the PSOL, a stauch ally of the PT...
The police are not divulging all they know to avoid jeopardizing the investigation.
Fyi, years ago, there was a guy who lived in my Condo, who befriended a lot of people as he wanted to be elected the building superintendent....everyone talked with him....I didn't think he was a particularly savory customer, and kept my distance....as it happens, he was not elected, but my point is that he disappeard from the Condo a few months later....we soon found out he was wanted by the police for several white collar crimes.....I suppose that makes me a criminal, because I lived in the same Condo and had spoken to him.....
I see that Terry, the slimy albino cockroach, is back denying what he has posted previously....I knew he would take the bait......he even contradicts himself in the exact same post.....and he insists it's the journalist's fault....that he misunderstood the Portuguese and lapped it up, is quite beside the point.....Well, I got news for him : Yes, it is his fault....he passed on incorrect information as if it were true...i.e., fake news....
No use telling him to consult reliable sources...not even after proving he's wrong when I posted official links from the Ministry of Defense....because his unreliable, biased left-wing a.holes know better..
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Mar 14th, 2019 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I see that Terry, is back denying”
I have shown what you claim as utterly untrue.
”The burden of proof lies upon him who affirms, not on him who denies, (since by the nature of things, he who denies a fact cannot produce any proof). The claimant is always bound to prove: the burden of proof lies on him. Upon the one alleging, not upon him denying, rests the duty of proving. Upon the plaintiff rests the proving or the burden of proof,“
Soma's Dictionary of Latin Quotations, Maxims and Phrases: A Compendium of ...
“Philosophers connect sentences with various items, such as thoughts, facts and states of affairs. Thoughts are either true or false in an absolute sense, never both or neither.”
Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy; States of Affairs; First published Tue Mar 27, 2012
Since I have shown what I had originally posted. You have failed to prove your claim, it proves it was false. Thus, conclusively confirming you are a liar. Game set, and match, twat.
@Jack Bauer
Mar 14th, 2019 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “The police are not divulging all they know to avoid jeopardizing the investigation”:
Makes PERFECT sense!
However, the speed+efficiency of the overnight change [the transfer of Giniton Lages: Reason? Tiredness!?!] is a bit too astonishing even to those who are not at all cynical or sceptical (like me)! Those with the olfactory problems should ALSO be able to smell a rat - particularly after linking many “mere coincidences”:
https://oglobo.globo.com/rio/delegado-giniton-lages-foi-surpreendido-ao-ser-afastado-do-caso-marielle-23520800
”Your insinuation (if you mean it as that)”
Mar 14th, 2019 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I didn't, although the coincidences are a little startling. Your experience with the criminal neighbour just shows you're a better judge of character than the Bolsonaros, since you knew to keep your distance. But wouldn't you have felt a bit freaked out if you heard he went on to murder someone in the same job as you, especially if you found a photo of the two of you together on Facebook afterwards? I guess Bolsonaro is in no danger from the Militias (only from socialist nutters), but still.
“there are photos of him with thousands of others...are they all murderers too ?”
I hope not. You said the police are not so different to the criminals, but they can't all be murderers.
What d'you want to invoke Terry for? It's nothing to do with his political views, he's just a fool. And he doesn't speak a word of Portuguese, I tested him.
@Jack Bauer / @DemonTree
Mar 14th, 2019 - 10:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Smell of a rat is getting pretty strong; even if one doesn't believe that there most probably is fire; if there is smoke:
https://i2.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/adnael-4.jpg?w=603&ssl=1
DT ('Guaido')
Mar 14th, 2019 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Yeah, but did he”? Yes, read the articles in these links very carefully - add the “https://” 'n google them.
(Folha,22/02/08): www1.folha.uol.com.br/fsp/dinheiro/fi2202200802.htm &
(OESP,21/02/08): economia.estadao.com.br/…/geral,pela-1-vez-brasil-tem-dinheiro-para-pagar-to…)
You'll notice tt they mention that in Feb 2008 Brazil had enough foreign reserves to pay off the debt ; NOT that it WAS paid off…so obviously no comments on “how”; they state Brazil is now in the comfortable position to be able to pay off both the public ‘n ‘private’debts, ‘n still be a creditor (of US$ 4 billn, the amount by which the reserves exceeded the debt).
Further, Brazil being in a position to pay it off (thus being able to honor its foreign commitments) improves its credibility abroad ‘n with the investment classification agencies.
They then refer to the previous payments of debt (in 2005, USD 15,5 billion / IMF ; in 2006, USD 2,6 billion / ‘Paris Club’), which liquidated those debts altogether.
It also says that on 21st Feb 2008, the Central Bk announced Brazil “zeroed” its external debt (what does that mean ?),then refers to the reserve/debt situation in 2003. Up to here, it does not say the debt was paid, just that Brazil could pay it, if it wanted to.
Now, take a look at (add ‘www’):
‘folhapolitica.org/2013/05lula-pagou-divida-externa-verdade.html’
It says that on the 22 Feb 2008, the Central Bk announced the external debt had been paid (“zeroed” ?), ‘n that Brazil was creditor of USD 4 billion (see abv); ‘reserves’ weren’t used (which would truly eliminate it), but - the internal debt increased by exactly the same amount …so it’s clear the money came from the local banks to pay it off...in effect, only transferring, ‘n adding (the equivalent amount in R$) to Brazil’s internal debt…on which interest was far higher.
Lula bragged he was the 1st prez to eliminate the external debt - true - but ignored the internal debt and the killer interest on it.
REF: DEBTS - Internal/External
Mar 15th, 2019 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Let the “Reliable Sources” show improvement [or a lack of it] in the economic conditions; Brazil so far is nowhere near (& is not at all likely to be, within the next few months or so as the most reliable indicators show):
- Recession near zero [nil]
- Unemployment persistently below 7%
- Exchange Rate persistently below US$ - R$ 3.00
That's what's required most urgently but INSTEAD:
http://www.chargeonline.com.br/php/charges/AUTO_vasqs.jpg
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Mar 16th, 2019 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“What d'you want to”
Why do you keep cuddling up Buttercup?
@:o))
Mar 16th, 2019 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The removal of Giniton Lages is indeed a bit strange….was he getting close to whoever ordered the assassination ?
@DT
””Your insinuation (if you mean it as that)”” ‘I didn't, although the coincidences are a little startling’ “...OK.
As long as seen as mere coincidences, without implying there could be some connection, ok ;
Sure, I might have freaked out later if my neighbor had been accused of murder, but I would not have been very pleased if some idiot journalist had insinuated in a smug way, that his ex-neighbors might have had something to do with it....because of a photo ?
It's unfortunate that some journalists think that such a 'coincidence' is newsworthy.
Although Gollum is a despicable, slimy albino cockroach he is obedient and takes the bait every time....he must get hungry, and anxious, while waiting for his mother to throw the garbage down the shute. But let him believe his own lies, he needs them to feel good about himself.
And you're right, he doesn't understand one iota of Portuguese, 'cause if he did, he ”might” not post so much crap.
@Jack Bauer
Mar 16th, 2019 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “was he getting close to whoever ordered the assassination”
He was the In-Charge of the case +the main investigator. Did he really become so tired that he had to be shifted overnight to Italy, WITHOUT handing over the charge +the investigations to whoever replaced him MANY Fairy-Tales are more credible than THIS one!
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Mar 16th, 2019 - 10:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“We must make a personal attack when there is no argumentative basis for our speech.” Cicero
“Ad hominem is an argument of the weak and insecure.” Maleiha Bajunaid Candao
“But let him believe his own lies” No proof no truth. Whereas you are a confirmed proven liar.
https://en.mercopress.com/2019/03/13/activist-murder-arrested-suspects-have-coincidental-links-with-president-bolsonaro/comments#comment498904
Call Brazil Copy/Imitate the USA?
Mar 17th, 2019 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0FROM: Bloomberg:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-15/u-s-seizes-1-million-pounds-of-smuggled-chinese-pork?utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&cmpid%3D=socialflow-twitter-economics&utm_content=economics&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social
@JB
Mar 17th, 2019 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re the dent, seems like only the last article says the external debt was fully paid off. But that Paris club debt mentioned in one of the others shows there was more than the IMF debt contracted in dollars. I've been trying to read more about the issue and all the articles say external debt is debt borrowed in foreign currency, and therefore any debts paid off would likely be financed not with bank loans but by issuing bonds at the prevailing interest rate (fairly high). I'm still not convinced every bit of the external debt was paid off, but what Brazil did pay was probably not advantageous from a strictly financial point of view. At least interest rates are lower now, but Brazil is still forced to pay a lot more compared to developed counies.
Re coincidences, agree the removal of Lages is a bit much of one. What are the chanes they can find out who paid the two assassins?
Favio Bolsonaro does seem to be mixed up with the militias, don't know about Jair. But yeah, the photo doesn't prove anything.
And I don't believe the Liar would be any better if he spoke 50 languages. It's not his literacy that's the problem, it's his failure to understand reality
@DemonTree
Mar 18th, 2019 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “Flavio Bolsonaro does seem to be mixed up with the militias, don't know about Jair”:
True - MANY secrets are yet to be unveiled [if “they” want to “let it happen”!]!
Besides:
#1: Man is known by.........................................................
#2: Birds of SAME feather................................................
#3: A fine example of raising kids!
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Mar 18th, 2019 - 02:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“And I don't believe...it's his failure to understand reality”
Oh, in the humble opinion of one who lends his undying support to an admitted supporter of a military dictatorship. Which gives you the least moral turpitude, and you have the audacity to pass judgment on anyone else. Give your head a shake, I perfectly understand your load of bollocks.
DT
Mar 18th, 2019 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Regarding foreign debt, reserves etc, seems you were never too familiar with the subject ...the Paris Club debt (which was 'paid' in 2006) has nothing do with the gimmick of trying to fool everyone the foreign debt had been paid off in Feb 2008 (when it was simply internalized).
Foreign debt can be incurred through taking simple loans or through issuing bonds....the mechanics of the operations may be different, but what matters is that the country owes money to foreign creditors, at a cost....and whether 100%, 90% or less was paid off in Feb 2008 (I maintain it was 100%) is neither here nor there...the fact that the “internalized” portion - paid for / financed by local banks - increased the internal debt in the same proportion that the external one was reduced, and at far higher interest rates - is what I'm referring to. To quadruple your interest payments, only to be able to brag the foreign debt had been eliminated, is expensive and stupid.
Regarding the two guys accused of Marielle's murder, a deposit of R$ 100,000 in one of their accounts, might lead to more clues.
Flavio Bolsonaro knew many cops, ex-cops, but to state he “does seem to be mixed up with the militias” is somewhat premature.....just because someone you knew 10, 15 years earlier, commits murder in 2018, doesn't mean anything...to imply it does, is irresponsible.
You mentioned the 'sucker'......after all, Gollum must be craving for attention, specially after having lost ALL his credibility. There, my 5 seconds wasted on a good deed. His attempts to offend are lost like a fart in the wind.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Mar 18th, 2019 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“after having lost ALL his credibility”
Now you've had your moment in the sun, back to reality.
https://en.mercopress.com/2019/03/13/activist-murder-arrested-suspects-have-coincidental-links-with-president-bolsonaro/comments#comment499006
@JB
Mar 18th, 2019 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, I wasn't too familiar with the subject. And I'm still not too clear
considering the various definitions of different types of debt.
For example, this shows external debt went down slightly before 2008, but not anywhere near zero. But is external debt the same as foreign debt?
https://tradingeconomics.com/brazil/external-debt (choose MAX on the chart).
And I'm still not really clear what you think happened. Either
1) The Brazilian government took out some kind of bank loan and bought back all the bonds they had issued earlier that were owned by foreign countries/foreign investors/foreign pension funds etc (seems unlikely, and there is nothing stopping foreign investors buying more)
2) The Brazilian government bought back bonds they earlier issued in dollars, and to pay for it they issued new bonds in Reais with a higher interest rate (plausible).
3) The Br govt only paid off loans from organisations like the IMF and Paris club that were low interest and funded them in some way that was higher interest (bank loans, bonds). (This seems very likely.)
4) Something else.
It makes a big difference to the amount, depending on what is considered foreign debt, and also to how different the interest rates would be, plus what the benefits are (if any).
Re Flavio, I read that he employed the wife and daughter of a militia member in his Rio office, and I can't believe he didn't know who they were.
DT
Mar 19th, 2019 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The types of debt is not the focus here...the simple fact Lula took money (Feb 2008) fm local banks (to pay off foreign loans, buy back Brzln bonds, or whatever) simply meant he switched foreign creditors for local ones, only to pay far higher interest than b4. That is the issue.
Foreign debt is same as external debt. If the amount by which the internal debt increased “overnight” (in R$), was equal to the reduction (in US$) of the external debt, it is clear it was just a switch of creditors.
Say John, living in China, sends you US$ 1000 by bank remittance, as a loan...later on, you borrow US$ 1000 from Jack (yr neighbor) to pay off John...you now owe Jack. You've just switched your creditor....If John was charging you 4% interest p/ year and Jack is going to charge you 10%, what is the net result ? an extra 6% in interest ....make financial sense to you ? and whether the money was borrowed initially to buy a car, or to go on a vacation is neither here nor there....simple.
The composition of the debt is not what I'm talking about....the fact that all foreign debt was paying lower interest rates than the internal one (financed by local banks, investors), is what makes changing creditors senseless.
You are mixing up the liquidation of the IMF debt (2006), the Paris Club's debt (2006) , 'n the internalization of the debt in Feb 2008..(3 different moments, different debts being liquidated, or just transferred to different creditors, under different conditions).
Yr 1) yes, and not UNlikely. Foreign investors could only buy more if Brazil issued more.
2) You are getting there....pay off debt with low interest, substituting it w/ a new debt at higher interest.
3) 2005 paid off IMF...2006, Paris Club...used foreign reserves. In 2008 bought the foreign debt with money fm new issue of local bonds (in R$), sold to Brazilian banks/investors (at higher interest).
I don't know what else I can say to make you understand, so let's pls drop it.
Flavio.. need space.
I'm not mixing up the various debts; I understand they happened at different times, but paying off the IMF and Paris club were necessary steps towards having no foreign debt.
Mar 19th, 2019 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. If the government only paid off foreign investors, those investors could buy more bonds from Brazilian individuals/companies at any time. That's while it seems unlikely/pointless to me.
2. There are advantages to having debt in your own currency. It's not affected by exchange rate fluctuations and the ups and downs of an economy outside your control, and in extremis you can simply print money to pay it off (at the cost of massive inflation). Whether it's worth paying a higher interest rate for is the question.
Now you have room for Flavio...
DT
Mar 19th, 2019 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Feb 2008 operation was also to eliminate foreign debt....but instead of using foreign reserves as in 2005 + 2006, the m.o. was to internalize it. I am not disputing the fact that after this 'transfer', the government could have taken out new foreign loans, or issued bonds to sell on the int'l mkt ...BUT investors can only buy bonds from Brazil IF Brazil issues them...which it would only do IF it needed the money.
I've said before 'n will say once again : Feb 2008, Lula bought off the foreign debt with money supplied by local banks, only in order to zero the international debt, which would classify Brazil as a “good payer”, and enable it to take on more foreign loans and/or issue more bonds.
“There are advantages to having debt in your own currency”.....Only IF Brazil were going through high inflation, to the point that the R$ were losing significant value in comparison with the USD (i.e., need more 'n more R$ to buy the same amont of USD), then obviously debt in (strong) foreign curency may not be a good deal ; THEN it would make sense to not have debt in foreign currency, but which again depends on the interest spread (foreign v. local).
OK, tks for the space. The ex cops arrested, now, and others, more recently identified as crime bosses within the militia, were honoured by the ALERJ in 2003 and 2004 (15 yrs ago) for “services rendered to the population”...a motion presented by Flavio B. It's quite probable that other cops were honoured as well back then, by other politicians in the ALERJ, but those connections aren't making the headlines because they don't involve Flavio B.
The fact that most cops/ex-cops in Rio (especially from the BOPE) have been accused of killing drug traffickers in shootouts at one time or another is pretty common.....after all, that's their job, if the criminals don't surrender without a fight.
@Jack Bauer
Mar 20th, 2019 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “he switched foreign creditors for local ones, only to pay far higher interest than b4”:
In a way, it also means that you are lending your own money to yourself. So you pay if/when you [government - yours or the next] pay. Again, there'd be the discounts, commissions [bribes? of course not!], etc, etc, etc.
“BUT investors can only buy bonds from Brazil IF Brazil issues them”
Mar 20th, 2019 - 11:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm VERY sure Brazil did not pay off the entire national debt in 2008. Investors would still have owned bonds issued earlier, due to be paid in 2, 5, 10 years, which AFAIK they are free to buy and sell as they please. Most likely your pension fund included some, and it's possible mine did too.
“...which it would only do IF it needed the money.”
When does any country ever not need the money? It's not a question of borrowing more; Brazil will have issued 10 year bonds in 1998, 5 year bonds in 2003, etc, so they must issue new ones in 2008 in order to pay off the first set. Countries often pay down their debt gradually, but no country can afford to pay it all off in one go.
Have a look here to see the interest rates Brazil was offering on 10 year bonds. I changed the Time Frame at the top to monthly and the date selector so it went back to 2007, and there are no gaps.
https://uk.investing.com/rates-bonds/brazil-10-year-bond-yield-historical-data
“Only IF Brazil were going through high inflation, to the point that the R$ were losing significant value in comparison with the USD”
Yes, and I don't think inflation in Brazil was especially high in 2008, which makes it seem like a bad deal. Far as I can see the Real had appreciated against the dollar in 2008, maybe making it a good time to pay off debt in dollars (if you assume it's not going to rise more, don't know whether it did). Either way, it looks like Brazil issued more dollar-denominated debt later.
Re the ex-cops, what were these “services rendered to the population” that they were honoured for?
“The fact that most cops/ex-cops in Rio have been accused of killing drug traffickers in shootouts at one time or another is pretty common”
That's probably true, but I bet not as many are accused of killing politicians. Were these guys recommended for the honour in some way by their superiors/police department, or was it Flavio's own initiative?
GameChangers 2018:
Mar 21st, 2019 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.insightcrime.org/news/analysis/gamechangers-2018-crime-ideology/
“[In San Salvador] the former mayor, and current leading presidential candidate Nayib Bukele — himself a political chameleon who swapped from the leftist FMLN to a rival centrist party — negotiated with the gangs so he could start reshaping the city’s Historic Center into a more family-friendly — or at least, tourist friendly — area. The approach in many respects worked; as violence was down, the center got some much-needed structural upgrades, and new businesses opened.”
Mar 21st, 2019 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Just what did he offer the gangs to get them to lay off the violence?
@DT
Mar 21st, 2019 - 04:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, If you're “VERY sure Brazil didn't pay off the entire national debt in 2008”, not much point in discussing it, is there ? ..just one LAST question : If, afayac, the ENTIRE debt was not paid off, presume you agree PART was....so, how was it paid ? with foreign reserves or w/ money from local banks ?
Fyi, bondholders can sell (back to issuer / other investors) before maturity date, so it's quite possible that investors would sell them back to Brazil in the case Govt offered to buy them (consolidating investor's gain and zeroing their risk).
“When does any country ever not need the money?”...what I said was relative, don't take it literally....every country “needs” money, but that does not mean it cannot be in the comfortable position of financing itself...
Yr link looks like no more than the daily (or weekly or monthly average) variation in prices of Brazil's 10 year bonds based on demand.....where is the yearly gain, presuming you buy them / hold onto them until maturity ?
I really don't know, but seems our disagreement stems from the fact I maintain the debt was paid off at a given moment in 2008 - by borrowing local money - which does not exclude the possibility Brazil could have started borrowing again on the int'l market the very next day, and your trying to analyze factors I was not talking about, based on “logical” monetary policy. Fact is each operation has it's own particularities, and with the dynamics of international finance, you cannot analyze them all under the same scope.
The services rendered were probably protecting innocent citizens by killing (or capturing) criminals....but the fact they were condecorated over 10 years ago - for whatever - and have now been accused of participating in Marielle's murder, does not mean Flavio necessarily has anything to do with it....in 10 years, people can go from good to bad, or bad to worse. The recommendation most likely came from the Rio PD , and Flavio presented the motion in the ALERJ.
National debt != foreign debt, and there are plenty of sources showing Brazil's national debt never fell to zero, or anywhere near.
Mar 21st, 2019 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0While researching, I did find several articles saying Lula swapped (some) foreign debt for domestic debt, resulting in paying more interest, but they didn't give enough specifics to answer your question, or know how much it really cost the country. Reducing foreign debt in favour of domestic also seems to have been a longstanding policy from the FHC years, as one of your articles said. Doesn't prove it was a good one, though.
“what I said was relative, don't take it literally”
Eh, the UK hasn't paid off its national debt in over 300 years; a small part of my taxes are still paying for the Napoleonic wars, as well as World Wars I & II. I doubt Brazil can do any better.
Re my link, that was just to show there was no break in the bonds issued, plus it shows how high the interest rate was compared to that IMF loan. Even if the loan was paid from reserves, it would have been better to spend the money on paying off some of those bonds, no?
If you want to know the yearly gain from the 10 year bonds you'll have to find it yourself. I did learn the yield can be calculated in different ways and you have to be sure which each source is using, which doesn't help.
As for Flavio, I guess decorating military police fits his politics. But it's weird there are so many separate links with the killers. Him and Marielle weren't part of the same political body in Rio de Janeiro, were they? You have so many layers of government in Brazil, it's hard to keep track.
@DemonTree
Mar 22nd, 2019 - 07:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Q: “I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Just what did he offer the gangs to get them to lay off the violence?”:
A:The Ease/Freedom of getting in/out of the US [of course not without the help from the Authorities maybe]?
DT
Mar 22nd, 2019 - 01:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Afaic, the links I sent showing the foreign debt was internalized at a given moment in 2008, are credible. If you don't think so, that's OK, we can agree to disagree, so let's drop it.
It's only normal that Flavio, being the son of an Army Captain/politician from Rio, would have friends/connections within the Military Police....and later, becoming a State Congressman for Rio himself, nothing unusual he would reinforce those ties....but in no way does it imply he was involved in Marielle's murder because he happened to condecorate the hit men over 10 years ago.
It's similar to trying to implicate the people who appointed Carlos Ghosn (accused of tax fraud between 2010/15) to the position of CEO (Renault/Nissan) in 2005.
The militia, formed by cops/ex-cops, having various lines of 'business' within the 'favelas' (supply of LPG, pirating satellite TV signals, drugs, selling protection etc), and Marielle, sticking her neck out, against them, sounds like a pretty good reason - as far as they were concerned - for wanting to get rid of her.
Many low-ranking Rio politicians (Councilmen) are known for their connections within the militias, so unless the investigation appears with a smoking gun, the rest is speculation.
“If you don't think so, that's OK, we can agree to disagree”
Mar 22nd, 2019 - 06:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Probably best.
“It's only normal that Flavio, being the son of an Army Captain/politician from Rio, would have friends/connections within the Military Police”
Yeah, it makes sense. And the Military Police have connections to the Militias. But I can't think what Flavio would have had to fear from Marielle, whereas for Councilors sponsored by the militias or crime gangs, it's more obvious. Did Flavio do anything noteworthy while State Congressman? Or was he elected to the senate mostly because of his name?
“unless the investigation appears with a smoking gun, the rest is speculation.”
It would be nice if they could find out who deposited the money. You're sure the suspects won't talk, because they'll end up dead themselves if they do?
DT
Mar 22nd, 2019 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“And the Military Police have connections to the Militias”....yes they do......but that does not mean the connections are all criminal ...some might be, not all.
That's what I'm saying, since Flavio had absolutely nothing to do with Marielle or her struggle against the militia, why would he be involved ?
Being a State Congressman in Rio, and only being involved with affairs of his State, other than participating in votes, I have no idea whether his tenure was productive. I think he was already pretty well positioned in Rio, and the fact Jair was running for president probably contributed.
It's not impossible to discover who made the deposit.....and yes, if the suspects talk, I think they are goners...unless they go into some witness protection programme.
I forgot you wouldn't know much about politics in Rio. Like I said, Brazil has way too much government. The population is what, 3 times the size of the UK? And every state has it's own congress on top of the federal one.
Mar 22nd, 2019 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I was wondering if Flavio pushed for more police interventions in the favelas. Are the Military Police in Rio under the control of the state government or federal? But even assuming he had nothing to do with Marielle's death, he seems too sympathetic to the Militias.
“It's not impossible to discover who made the deposit”
Perhaps they already know and are waiting to gather more evidence? We can hope. As for the suspects, they could send them to the US, I heard they'd fit right in among immigrants there!
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