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CFK to be Number 2 in Fernández-Fernández ticket for Argentina's presidency

Saturday, May 18th 2019 - 13:45 UTC
Full article 32 comments

Former Argentine two-time President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner (CFK) rattled an otherwise quiet Saturday morning by announcing she would run for the country's vice-presidency in this year's elections behind her former Cabinet Chief Alberto Fernández. Read full article

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  • Enrique Massot

    This will be recorded as the most unexpected gambit in Argentine politics, and will reduce to shambles the electoral strategy of the currently governing party, based on polarization against Cristina.

    This confirms what Cristina has said before: she is there to serve the people in the best possible way and not looking for positions of power.

    The formula presented today will be able to attract a wide array of political forces now disperse into a powerful electoral front through Alberto Fernandez' thoughtful approach to politics, while ensuring Cristina's large number of vote intentions are kept.

    AF is neither vulnerable to made-up judicial processes nor by the usual campaigns of a servile media, ready to deploy the minute CFK announced candidacy for the first position.

    The next four months are no doubt going to be interesting to watch.

    May 18th, 2019 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Think

    Á la pucha...!
    Ésta no la vi venir...
    Un “1.d4 d5 2.c4” geniál...
    Este país es para cobrar entradas..., Ché...!

    May 18th, 2019 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Enrique Massot

    Neither did I...an audacious move.

    Nadie se aburre en Argentina!

    May 18th, 2019 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Think

    Monsieur Massot...

    Viviendo por allá..., en las inmediaciones del polo norte..., es factible que usted no haya tenido el placer de conocer a este joven Franco-Argentino que a mi entender..., la rompe...

    Aquí...:Monsieur Grabois..., ayer..., en un programa de gorilas..:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mL-MxP8Z-bU
    Enjoy...

    May 18th, 2019 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Enrique Massot

    Merci, Think. Interesting interview...a young colt facing off a pack of hungry wolves.

    Indeed, I've been watching Juan...un joven with a lot of qualities, courage and an interesting career ahead of him.

    On les aura!

    May 19th, 2019 - 02:49 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Think

    Liberté, Égalité, Fernandezité...

    ;-)

    May 19th, 2019 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Melisa

    CFK is truly a saint.

    May 19th, 2019 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Marcos Alejandro

    No sirve ni uno ni otro, we need a real change mi Estimado gayina :-)
    Bravo Juan.

    May 19th, 2019 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Think

    Estimadisimo bostero Marcos Alejandro...

    Usté..., calladito la boca..., y al rincón...
    Míre como nos fué por escuchar a tres bostas como Macri..., Arribas y Angelici...
    Mi única consolación contra esos tres mamotretos son los tres que les metimos en Madrid..., te acordás...?
    Fernandez es “A REAL CHANGE”..., querido botija bostero..., es de Argentinos Juniors..., que ojalá los cagen a goles esta tarde...;-)))

    May 19th, 2019 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Jack Bauer

    @EM
    Remember the link you sent me on the polls by Clarin ?:

    https://www.clarin.com/politica/encuesta-exclusiva-macri-cristina-espejo-balotajes-alternativos_0_YAelXF3Sl.html

    and our exchange on April 23rd under the headline “Macri freezes prices on basic goods” ?

    Have only quoted the relevant parts of my post..

    Quote
    “EM
    Thanks.
    Ok, so Macri's “cambiemos” rose to 31,6%, and the “opposition”, not necessarily CFK, grew to 54. But at this point, still too early to count one's chickens.

    ”.........In the final voting scenarios, 6 with Macri and 2 without him : in the former scenario, Macri would beat CFK (although by a very small, insignificant margin), but in the latter, Macri's substitute (Vidal) would also beat CFK...and so would would Lavagna (IF he - presumably in the primaries - were to run against CFK).

    Remains to be seen if Macri (and CFK, for that matter) end up being the opposing candidates. What would happen without either ? and if the election put Vidal vs Lavagna ?”
    Unquote

    At the time I had a fleeting thought about the possibililty of CFK stepping down in favor of someone backed by her, and with bigger chances of defeating Macri...Looks like that scenario has become reality.
    While she might be taking the back seat (to avoid being such an attractive target while the legal cases against her continue), she'll still be holding the steering wheel...

    May 19th, 2019 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Marcos Alejandro

    Estimadisimo gayina tirapiedras
    Uste gano 4 libertadores y una intercontinental, nosotro sei libertadores y 3 intercontinentales, si me acuerdo :-)
    La Comisión Directiva de River nombró socios honorarios a Videla, Masera y Agosti, nosotros no.

    What time is riBer's game :-)

    May 19th, 2019 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Think

    Estimadisime Bostere...

    Expresandome en el nueve idiome inclusive..., le dirė que ustedes les bosteres PRO...:(Putes, Rates y Olfes...) no saben hablar de otre cose que la “Pesade Herencia”..., qué..., siendo 65 titules a 68..., tán pesade no es...

    Ahora bien..., Usté dice mas arriba que...:
    ***“No sirve ni une ni otre, we need a real change mi Estimade millonarie...”***

    Pregunto yo...?
    A qué persona probe sugeriría Usté para guiar el destino de les Argentines les proximes cuatro años...?
    Mauro Zarate...?

    May 20th, 2019 - 06:52 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Marcos Alejandro

    Think
    No, Mauro is a Fulbo player. That’s the point, we choose a cualquier ganso. It’s hard to find a good candidate nowadays ):

    May 20th, 2019 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Enrique Massot

    JB

    ”...(Cristina) might be taking the back seat (to avoid being such an attractive target while the legal cases against her continue).”

    Sure. I would add that isn't only the legal cases (funny they were quiet for three years and just one of them has now become active, eh?) but the whole Cambiemos electoral strategy was based on Cristina being the presidential candidate -- in that vein, the move has noticeably unsettled Equatorian consultant Duran Barba as reported in another story.

    Just a couple thoughts:

    If any Cambiemos ticket (including “Plan V” Maria Eugenia) wins the election, Argentina is doomed. If Macri and his gang were able to make so much damage in just four years, another term would mean scorched earth for most, while a selected few will concentrate power and wealth in ways never seen before. Take into account that these people envision a country for five-million people only -- the remaining 40 million, he doesn't give a rat's arse.

    To get out of this bleak scenario, the next government needs to put all the cogs of the economy to turn again so that urgently needed jobs are again created, allowing the population to spend and so on...sounds simple but the current government couldn't -- or wouldn't -- figure out for the last 3.5 years.

    May 20th, 2019 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Jack Bauer

    @EM
    “To get out of this bleak scenario, the next government needs to put all the cogs of the economy to turn again so that urgently needed jobs are again created”....

    That is pretty obvious...BUT, considering that Macri managed to defeat, and took over from CFK - presumably for a good reason...perhaps because the economy was already not going all that well under CFK ? - are you saying that Macri got Argentina into the current situation all by himself, without any 'help' from his predecessor ?

    May 22nd, 2019 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Zaphod Beeblebrox

    JB,

    “Macri managed to defeat, and took over from CFK - presumably for a good reason...perhaps because the economy was already not going all that well under CFK ?”

    Indeed. I've asked Reekie about the opinion polls several times but never got a response. If memory serves me correctly, Reekie called the 2015 election and the 2017 mid-terms incorrectly so maybe third time lucky for him? However, the opinion polls are not currently indicating the heavy defeat for Macri that Reekie is predicting so maybe he'll get it wrong again? We shall see...

    May 22nd, 2019 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Jack Bauer

    @ZB
    It'll be interesting to see if Macri also decides to step into the VP slot and appoint a less impopular candidate.....hunting season is open, anything can happen...

    May 22nd, 2019 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Enrique Massot

    JB

    “are you saying that Macri got Argentina into the current situation all by himself, without any 'help' from his predecessor ?”

    Oh come on Jack! Of course that is what Macri currently says, after stating during his campaign that “inflation was the easiest thing to tame” and that “an investment deluge” would be coming starting day 1 of his presidency.

    I consider normal that Macri would spell out such nonsense -- after all, he's looking at being reelect.

    In your assessment, then, four years would not have been enough to stabilize the economy and revert your alleged negative situation existing until December 2015? Further, the CFK's momentum would have been so powerful as to keep pulling the country's economy down for four years -- in spite of the massive borrowing undertaken by president Macri?

    Jack: Nobody would pretend to have a Nordic type of economy in four years. However, Macri managed to increase inflation, unemployment numbers, kill thousands of businesses from small to large, reduce economic activity, erode purchasing power, and on top of it, to put Argentina in the edge of default -- all in less than four years! Many Argentines believe no previous government managed to do so much damage in so little time. Again, if Macri had managed to keep things about equal, he could have a chance as a candidate.

    AND although I wish a victory of the F-F ticket, much remains to be seen in terms of political alliances among Peronist sectors. On the other side, the government alliance faces internal divisions as some Radical Party leaders are tired of sharing almost zero decision power within Cambiemos and instead get all the bad rap for those decisions.

    May 22nd, 2019 - 11:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zaphod Beeblebrox

    EM,

    “Macri managed to increase inflation, unemployment numbers, kill thousands of businesses from small to large, reduce economic activity, erode purchasing power, and on top of it, to put Argentina in the edge of default -- all in less than four years!”

    Let us check your “facts”: https://tradingeconomics.com/argentina/indicators

    1. Inflation was 40% (after correction for false data) now 55%, so you are correct that inflation has increased under Macri, but was 40% acceptable?
    2. Unemployment rate was 6% now 9%, so you are correct that the unemployment rate has increased under Macri, but how many of that 3% were non-productive government employees?
    3. “Kill thousands of businesses from small to large”-there is no data on this but interestingly, the number of employed persons has increased from around 11m to almost 12m so this looks like a clear improvement under Macri so, while your claim may be correct, it doesn't represent a corresponding decrease in employment.
    4. Economic activity. The GDP shows seasonal variations but the trend has been upwards under Macri so your claim looks incorrect.
    5. Purchasing power. I'm not sure what the best statistic is to measure this but consumer confidence has decreased so you may be correct.
    6. Put Argentina in the edge of default. I can't tell but the balance of trade has improved, capital flow from the country has reduced and the current account has improved from -5B to -2B so some indicators have improved under Macri.

    So as always, you are about half right and have provided no evidence for your claims.

    Now, interestingly, some of these improvements weren't there 2 years ago when the half term elections were held which may go some way to explaining Jack's opinion poll results. Some things are looking up and and there are almost 1 million people more with jobs so maybe things aren't as bad in Argentina as you keep claiming. Are you out of touch up in Canada?

    May 23rd, 2019 - 05:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    EM
    I am not asking you what Macri alleges to defend himself, I asked you whether you think he alone, is to blame for the situation in Argentina....i.e., if you concede things were already going from bad to worse before he took over ?....simple enough.

    “In your assessment, then, four years would not have been enough to stabilize the economy and revert your alleged negative situation existing until December 2015?”

    Exactly because I believe 4 years would NOT be enough to stabilize / revert the negative situation, which already existed in Dec 2015 - imo- is why I asked you the above...

    Obviously, a Nordic type economy might be possible after....perhaps a couple of generations of serious government....but possibly not even then, if the opposition consistently resorted to obstructing government ...

    And once again, I know Macri made things “worse”, which implies that before it got worse, it was already “bad”.

    But If Argentina was doing fine in Dec 2015, why on earth wasn't CFK re-elected ? weren't the Argentines, in your opinion, satisfied with her government ?

    But OK, Macri failed at trying to fix 12 years of Kirchnerism, lets see if the F-F ticket can fix that, plus 4 years of Macri..

    May 23rd, 2019 - 07:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zaphod Beeblebrox

    JB,

    “But If Argentina was doing fine in Dec 2015, why on earth wasn't CFK re-elected ? weren't the Argentines, in your opinion, satisfied with her government ?”

    ...and (as I mention above) Macri did well in the half term elections too beating CFK's party by 2:1 in the popular vote (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Argentine_legislative_election) after 2 years of Macri's “so much damage” according to Reekie.

    We have 2 data points that indicate that Argentines didn't like CFK as much as Reekie said they did. Maybe their opinion has changed, but Reekie is currently 0-2. We shall see...

    May 24th, 2019 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @ZB
    The whole question boils down to the simple fact that CFK lost to Macri in Dec 2015 because the majority had become dissatisfied with her, as well as with her policies .....which, had they been good for the economy, the population wouldn't have been in the shit - eating 'choripans' - and Macri wouldn't have had the slightest chance, regardless of his ideas 'n promises.

    But if CFK gets in (even as VP) she'll get the economy back on track .....the word of CFK....and Reekie's.

    May 24th, 2019 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    ZB

    Look, Zaphod, I am not trying to get you to join Kirchnerism. I do not think that movement would benefit from someone as thick.

    If you want to believe that Argentine employment levels “looks like a clear improvement under Macri,” go right ahead.

    If, in your view, economic activity shows that “the trend has been upwards under Macri,” be my guest.

    You believe “the balance of trade has improved.” Good luck with it -- Under the IMF-strict zero deficit policies, imports have plummeted, hence the “balance trade improvement.”

    If you are an Argentine resident, enjoy; obviously, your are sheltered.

    @JB

    The economic situation under CFK was not good and I have never said it was perfect situation. You are right; this was a vulnerability going to the 2015 election after a decade of Kirchnerist government.

    Mauricio Macri, cleverly, campaigned on “leaving in place everything that is good and improving what's wrong,” and just over half of the electors believed his promise.

    Now, the population has had enough of Macri's promises of “there will be a deluge of investments,” or “the next semester things will be better,” and are mad at Macri's current claims that “this is the only way forward,” and say thanks but no thanks to the promise that, if re-elected, he plans to “keep the current path, only going faster.”

    And so, even if during CFK's government things were far from ideal, most Argentines by the day say ”Give me CFK any time -- with all her flaws, over Macri!

    May 24th, 2019 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    “I do not think that movement would benefit from someone as thick.”

    Play nice, children.

    CFK's policies pre-2015 lead to Macri's election, so returning to them unchanged seems an obviously bad idea. Does Alberto Fernandez have any notable policy differences with Cristina, or do you agree with the Macristas that he's just a figurehead?

    May 25th, 2019 - 08:51 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Jack Bauer

    EM
    “”Give me CFK any time - with her flaws, over Macri!” That's your right.

    DT
    Cont of “100s march in Rio”
    Believe me, there’s a 'lot' of waste in 'everything' public, here. Someone else’s money pays the bills, so who cares ?
    Re Collor …considering most politicians ARE corrupt, only natural to presume all are…how corrupt, is another story, it’s just the political culture…remember, it was btwn Collor ‘n Lula.

    Yeah, students live the same ‘world’, but their ‘own world’. In 1990 there were no social networks…only TV, papers…’n the majority weren’t /still aren’t avid readers. Today there're tons of information sources, but that doesn’t mean they bother to read beyond the headlines.
    Collor’s brother Pedro denounced a corruption scheme involving F.Collor’s treasurer, Paulo C. Farias. Congress was pissed-off because they weren’t sharing the booty.
    Regarding the education cuts, I’m only saying that the way the students protested, with little or no knowledge of the details, makes them idiots.

    “He did not reduce worker's rights”….“You aren’t going to argue this again”….should hope not, because all he did was to include a few changes…changes workers wanted for years. If the Labor reform didn’t work as intended, the changes had nothing to do with it.
    While the market/investors don’t regain confidence, things will not improve. But why blame Temer ? Didn’t he inherit the mess from the PT ?
    FHC was accused of being neo-liberal…but it worked until shortly after Lula got in.
    Anyway, even if you don’t consider Economics a science – obviously not like math - I’m still standing behind PG…his ideas make sense, whereas the PTs never did…always chopping ‘n changing, all very short-sighted. But most of it depends on Congress.
    “Plus cutting research and education…” I’ve fed you enough info on that, so get them into perspective.
    I’m not accusing the RCC of acting in bad faith, but they are archaic and definitely made a lot of mistakes, most of which they won't admit.

    May 25th, 2019 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    Can't remember what we were saying about Collor. Did he go to jail in the end? And if not him then which politician was the first?

    “In 1990 there were no social networks”

    If you're talking about social networks then we all live in our own worlds these days. Even when they're not pushing 'alternative facts' they're putting their own spin on things.

    “why blame Temer ?”

    It's not a question of blame, but of whether his measures helped. That's the real test of ideas; do they work in practice?

    Re research, the issue is the long term effect. Even if they restored funding next year, it would not repair the damage, so it's a bad area to cut for short term savings. And I certainly hope Guedes does not consider the economy so dire as to anticipate these cuts lasting many years.

    “they are archaic and definitely made a lot of mistakes”

    They seem to finally be admitting a few of them, but yes, they've done some highly questionable things. Although nuns and priests were among those thrown out of helicopters into the River Plate, a lot of the church hierarchy in Argentina collaborated with the junta, and more did not condemn them.

    May 25th, 2019 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    DT
    Collor was kicked out, had his political rights suspended for 8 years, 'n that was it. He's now a Senator...idiots re-elected him...great, isn't it ?
    What I'm saying is that information was not so widely disseminated as now....that's all.

    Temer's measures will help once the economy picks up, because it will make worker /employer relations less bureaucratic, more flexible, in favor of both....which stimulates growth. Take just a simple situation...before : you have a small restaurant, serving only lunch. But you need to take on waiters for 8 hours/day, although they work only 3. Expensive for the restaurant owner...kills his biz....today, he can take them on for lunch, and they can work another restaurant at night....overall earning more. Good for both. Also attends people who only want a part-time job....

    Funds for research in Brazil have always been a fraction of what is spent in EU or the USA....even more so in Universities...and if the cuts last a few months, the effect here will be nearly zero....but, no one wants to cut for the sake of cutting...if there's no money, what are you gonna do ? It's not short-term 'savings' ...there's not enough money, so it has to be allocated according to priorities...perhaps cutting the public health budget would solve the research issue...but is it the best solution ? no....

    Re the RCC, imo, too little, too late....but ok, better late than never.

    May 25th, 2019 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    @Zaphod Beeblebrox

    REF: “the opinion polls are not currently indicating the heavy defeat for Macri”:

    The Argies can choose who'ill finally hold their Begging Bowl!

    May 26th, 2019 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    Who currently holds the begging bowl?

    The girl who said no to feeding the vultures in their own terms?

    Or the guy who borrowed to pay the vultures more than they had previously asked?

    The girl who kept borrowing within manageable levels?

    Or the guy who borrowed like a drunken sailor? (just to finance day-to-day operations).

    The girl whose husband paid off the debt with the IMF?

    Or the guy who, when private investors stopped lending ran to the IMF to keep those dollars coming to feed financial speculation and capital flight?

    Make your guess!

    May 26th, 2019 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    “Collor was kicked out... He's now a Senator...idiots re-elected him”

    That's something I really don't understand. Menem got reelected too, after being convicted in a court, and despite reputedly doing almost nothing in congress. I don't see how this could happen without extensive electoral fraud.

    And he never went to prison. It seems the courts didn't have much interest in jailing politicians until Lula's election.

    “Temer's measures will help once the economy picks up”

    I hope so. But IIRC it was supposed to help with unemployment immediately, and it's still high.

    I know the rules were inflexible, but there must have been part-time employees in Brazil before the reform?

    “Funds for research in Brazil have always been a fraction of what is spent in EU or the USA”

    That cuts both ways though; if research is an insignificant part of the budget, cutting it isn't going to be much help. But seems you do think the cuts are a long term plan, not just a response to the current recession.

    “Re the RCC, imo, too little, too late....but ok, better late than never.”

    Agreed.

    May 26th, 2019 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    EM
    Perhaps what the girl did in 8 years contributed to the guy going to the vultures...or don't you see any connection at all ? yes, or no.

    DT
    “That's something I really don't understand”.....I have told you “why”, a million times ...because most voters are stupid...'n since it was the voters from Ceará that re-elected him, as those from the other NEastern Sates continue to re-elect 'their' oligarchies - although they've never done nothing for 'their' people - just reinforces the fact they are stupid, 'n are deliberately kept that way. It wasn't fraud, it was pure & 'honest' ignorance.

    Collor, nor Dilma, went to jail because impeachment is not subject to jail time. Lula's crimes were/are...'n he was never impeached despite them...remember the backstage agreement he entered with the PMDB (with Temer) to avoid it ? (Temer being VP in 2010 election ?).

    The notion of Justice in this country has changed, despite 4 members of the STF...perhaps because corruption's become so big it's no longer possible to sweep it under the counter ? Look at the facts, forget wishful thinking. Lula deserves to be where he is.

    The 'propaganda' around the labor reform WAS that it would help immediately, but TBH, how could it if the economy did not pick-up ? After Temer was publicly accused (although not indictable) he was in a weak position to pass the pension reform, and w/o it, the govt had no money to invest in essential areas. Simple domino-effect.

    Part-time jobs was just ONE example. In practise, some cases conflicted with the law, but now, in a nutshell, the law becomes whatever employee /employer agree on, provided it does not go against the law, nor ignores any Constitutional rights. Far more flexible.

    I never argued cuts in research were good - simply said, if there's no money, cuts /reductions in investments are unavoidable. I did not say, nor do I think the cuts are long term...they are contingent to the increase in govt revenue ...th4, AGW, only temporary.

    May 27th, 2019 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    “Perhaps what the girl did in 8 years contributed to the guy going to the vultures”

    I would say no. Macri inherited a difficult situation but he didn't inherit the debt from CFK. It was his own borrowing and failure to return the economy to growth that led to him turning to the IMF. It wasn't inevitable.

    “because most voters are stupid”

    I just don't understand the mindset. Like, stupid people may do things for bad reasons, but they do have a reason, however deluded. So what is the appeal of oligarchs?

    Wikipedia says Collor did have a criminal trial, but the most important evidence was ruled inadmissible due to being obtained by an illegal police search. Perhaps he was just lucky.

    “The 'propaganda' around the labor reform WAS that it would help immediately”

    That's what I remembered. They said it would help the economy to pick up by allowing more flexibility. But even after pension reform, Guedes will have no money to invest for a good while, since he's determined to reduce the deficit to zero. Perhaps that's why the predictions of economic growth keep being lowered?

    Re employment law, as long as there still are laws and it's not like America where workers have NO protection. Every time Americans describe their experiences I wonder why on earth they put up with being treated that way.

    Re research, how much was cut and how does that compare with other areas? Is there an article somewhere listing all the cuts with the projected savings?

    May 27th, 2019 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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