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Thousands of students and teachers took to the streets of Brazil to protest bugget cuts

Friday, May 31st 2019 - 22:18 UTC
Full article 59 comments

Thousands of protesters took to the streets in dozens of cities in Brazil on Thursday for a second nationwide demonstration in as many weeks over the government's plan to slash education spending. Read full article

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  • Terence Hill

    Mafias run by rogue …#2
    Violence and politics have long been intertwined in Rio de Janeiro. In the 1950s a federal deputy from Duque de Caxias prowled around with a German machinegun. A film in 1986 romanticised his life, but historians pin several dozen violent crimes on him, including at least one murder. Brazil’s military dictatorship, which fell in 1985, used police death squads to kill political opponents (some of whom were urban guerrillas) and other unwanted people.
    Militias evolved out of citizen-led vigilante groups that emerged in the 1990s to tackle drug gangs, says Mr Alves. Today they are de facto mafias. They thrive in the power vacuum of Rio’s peripheries, offering what Mr Alves calls “false security”. They are popular with politicians thanks to their talent for getting out the vote. Police officers among their members help them to thwart investigations. Their political ties help them to filch public money.
    In 2007 Marcelo Freixo, then a state congressman from the left-wing Socialism and Liberty Party (psol), proposed a parliamentary commission to investigate militias. But it was not until 2008, after militiamen kidnapped and tortured two journalists and their driver, that politicians agreed to the inquiry. After months of testimony, the commission released a 282-page report that accused 226 people of having militia connections, including police and army officers and city and state politicians. Most were eventually jailed.
    Those who avoided prison and worse—25 of those named in the report have since been murdered—shifted their strategy to become less brazen and more enterprising, often outsourcing violence. Duque de Caxias is among Brazil’s richest municipalities thanks to its oil refinery, chemical industry and position on the highway. That makes it an attractive market for what Gabriel Ferrando of the state police’s organised-crime unit (draco) calls the militias’ “power project”. They have “an absurd capacity to adapt”,.

    Jun 01st, 2019 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    REF: “budget cuts”

    http://www.chargeonline.com.br/php/DODIA//son.jpg

    Jun 01st, 2019 - 08:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Mafias run by rogue … #4
    The government’s plans may end up strengthening militias. Sérgio Moro, the justice minister, has introduced a bill that would shield from prosecution police who kill criminals because of “excusable fear, surprise or intense emotion”. Mr Bolsonaro has expanded the right to own and carry guns, suggesting people need them to protect themselves from criminals. “We’re returning to the origin myth that fuelled the militias,” says Tarcísio Motta, the leader of psol in Rio’s city council.
    However, the militias’ links with Mr Bolsonaro’s government may provoke a backlash. There was an outcry after the murder in March last year of Marielle Franco, a city councilwoman from psol. In March two former cops were arrested for her murder and accused of belonging to a militia in Rio’s West Zone. One lived in the same condo as Mr Bolsonaro; his daughter had dated the president’s son. Another of Mr Bolsonaro’s sons, Flávio, a senator from Rio, employed the wife and mother of a fugitive police officer accused of leading the same militia. Flávio and the aide who hired them are under investigation for money laundering, involving real estate deals. On May 29th President Bolsonaro’s wife’s uncle was arrested on suspicion of ties to an allegedly land-grabbing militia near Brasília. All deny wrongdoing.
    Mr Ferrando of draco admits that militias were “not a priority” in the past. Now, he says, police, prosecutors and regulatory agencies will use lessons from Brazil’s Lava Jato anti-corruption investigations to attack the militias’ economic activities. This “follow the money” strategy will be put to the test in Muzema, a favela in Rio’s West Zone where two apartment buildings collapsed in April, killing 24 people. The illegal properties had been built by the militia thought to be responsible for Ms Franco’s murder. In the days after the tragedy, relatives watched as firefighters pulled bodies from the rubble. The sound of their pneumatic drills blended with those at new

    Jun 01st, 2019 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    @Terence Hill

    They fight crime WITH crime!
    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/05/30/jair-bolsonaro-will-not-defeat-crime-in-brazil-by-tolerating-militias?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/jairbolsonarowillnotdefeatcrimeinbrazilbytoleratingmilitiasfightingthugswiththugs

    Jun 01st, 2019 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    :o))
    Have already cited the source.
    Economist May 30th 2019
    “Mafias run by rogue police officers are terrorising Rio
    President Jair Bolsonaro is turning a blind eye”
    https://en.mercopress.com/2019/05/29/bolsonaro-begins-to-master-negotiations-with-congress-with-a-timely-victory/comments#comment501122

    Jun 01st, 2019 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    @Terence Hill

    REF: Have already cited the source. Economist May 30th

    The % of the crooks who are involved in Organized Crimes, is too small. So everything is “normal”! When they are in a majority; it will already be Too Late to whine!
    https://www.otempo.com.br/polopoly_fs/1.1005818.1534205083!httpImage/image.jpg

    Jun 02nd, 2019 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    RE comments on “Chagos islands decolonisation”
    “If you're going to blame the French, might as well blame every colonial power for what happened in those countries after they left”

    It varied, but in general the ex-colonial powers would support and encourage governments that were friendly to them and allowed them to keep trading etc, not necessarily the government that was best for that country, and not one that really modelled the successful western economies. The US acted the same way. Hence the discontent and desire to try alternatives, whether that was social democracy or full on communism (and America didn't always distinguish the two when their own interests were at stake).

    “I presume you mean those who hold 'official' power”

    Them, but also the “d'you know who you are talking to? ” types. The attitude of the politicians can't come from nowhere.

    “but whatever they are, they should respect individual freedom...” etc

    I'm sure we'd disagree on the details, but can't argue with the general principles.

    “but even then, to depend on only that, is risky.”

    Definitely. That's why Chile tried to diversify away from copper, and has been successful, at least to some extent. It can be difficult though, due to the 'resource curse'.

    “Is austerity not needed in BZL ?”

    I don't support continued borrowing with no plan. But if there was a plan, to invest in ways that could kickstart the economy, I'd support that over cuts that are bound to do the opposite. Once the economy is growing again, then is the time to pay down the debt.

    Jun 02nd, 2019 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Minister of Education would find it difficult to pass the Enem
    BY BERNARDO MELLO FRANCO30 / 05/2019 12:43
    Abraham Weintraub
    Abraham Weintraub | The globe
    The Minister of Education, Abraham Weintraub, seems to have an irreconcilable problem with the Portuguese language.
    In the video in which he imitates Gene Kelly in “Singing in the Rain”, released today in social networks, he attacks the ears of others by saying that “there were amendments.”
    The verb to be, when used in the sense of existing, is inflexible and can not be conjugated in the plural. This is taught to every high school student.
    In another clumsy tweet, Weintraub complained of ”slander in which I would insult (sic) violence.“ It had to be remembered that the verb incite is written with ”c“.
    Bolsonaro's minister also became a laughing stock when he confused Czech writer with Arabian one. In an attempt to quote Franz Kafka, he referred to a certain ”Kafta”.
    With this performance in Portuguese and literature, Weintraub would have difficulty going through Enem.
    https://blogs.oglobo.globo.com/bernardo-mello-franco/post/ministro-da-educacao-teria-dificuldade-para-passar-no-enem.html

    Jun 03rd, 2019 - 11:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    @Terence Hill

    REF: Mafias run by rogue

    Sounds like a Good-News to justify that “ALL is WELL”!
    https://politica.estadao.com.br/noticias/geral,ex-assessores-de-carlos-bolsonaro-nao-tem-registro-na-camara-do-rio,70002853969

    Jun 03rd, 2019 - 11:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    “...in general ex-colonial powers would support 'n encourage govts that were friendly to them…” definitely, but in many, the struggle for power turned into civil war…wanted independence 'n power, at any cost, without being prepared for it…in retrospect makes one wonder if in some cases they might've been better off remaining as colonies...

    “The attitude of the politicians can't come from nowhere…” It doesn’t. It is part of the culture handed down from colonial times when, if you were a “friend of the King's” , you could throw your weight around and get away with it.
    It represents the types who think they are above the law, such as politicians, who are used to making their own rules.

    “I'm sure we'd disagree on the details, but can't argue with the general principles.”…no problem there - once the principle is established, the details can be negotiated…as I’ve said, there are many ways to skin a cat…as long as it ends up skinned.

    “That's why Chile tried to diversify away from copper…been successful”…has Morales diversified ? Did VZ ? If they don’t take advantage of the bonanza (by diversifying) while it lasts, when it’s over…it’s over. For ex., the UAE have already realized that one day, oil will end...
    Yeah, the resource curse, depending on finite resources, and resting on one’s laurels.

    I’ve always believed that borrowing for productive investments (which’ll pay for themselves), can be good, but when mixed with waste , inefficiency ‘n corruption, it’s a formula for disaster.

    “Once the economy is growing again, then is the time to pay down the debt”…right, but without losing perspective, and not repeating previous mistakes.

    Just a quick, unimportant note : what on earth is Gollum talking about ? trying to be an expert on Portuguese grammar ? when he can't even understand, far less speak the language himself ? Priceless !!
    Reminds me of Mourão & Haiti, B's wife's weakness.....and all the poor jounalists, unfairly accused of leading him on.

    Jun 03rd, 2019 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    @Terence Hill

    REF: ”Kafta”

    Deleeeelicious!

    @JB

    REF: “Mixed with Waste+Inefficiency+Corruption [no one is corrupt; actually], it’s a formula for disaster”:

    The formula of Patriotism PLUS Concern of the masses
    http://www.chargeonline.com.br/php/charges/AUTO_cazo.jpg

    Jun 03rd, 2019 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    “in retrospect makes one wonder if in some cases they might've been better off remaining as colonies...”

    Some did, so we could compare eg French Guiana to the independent Guyana and Suriname. They have the space port, they're a bit better off, but I don't know that people in the other two would be willing to give up their independence for that.

    “if you were a “friend of the King's” , you could throw your weight around and get away with it.”

    That's the kind of people I was talking about, the group the politicians mostly come from, and those who don't soon adopt the attitude.

    “has Morales diversified ?”

    Don't know. Vz did the opposite; they ended up relying more and more on one export, and didn't even take care of that properly. It wasn't inevitable, just crap financial management. And by not looking after and investing in their own refineries, they made themselves more vulnerable to US sanctions. Pretty stupid, even on their own terms.

    Re resources curse, it's not just resting on one's laurels, but that exporting raw materials causes the currency to appreciate, making manufacturers in that country less competitive, possibly leading to job losses and even recession.

    Re productive investments, that is a particular problem for Brazil. Supposing you trust Guedes to avoid waste, corruption etc, d'you think he'd have the power to prevent it?

    Re Gollum, I think he's trying to say he suffers from that Obsessive-Compulsive grammar-checking disorder he's always going on about. :D And what the O Globo journalist is saying is that the Education Minister needs to go back to school, alongside the student who screwed up writing a protest sign.

    Jun 03rd, 2019 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    DT
    Not trying to be nasty, but using Africa as an ex., it's a fact that very few, if any, ex-colonies were prepared for a new future, on their own...even if the colonial power assisted them trade-wise. Looking back, what 'good' did independence REALLY do for them, if you consider it in terms of progress ? social and economic ? some might say it gave them a sense of 'national pride'....but that hasn't worked any miracles.

    When I was working, Brazil exported quite a bit to VZ....the only items imported, were oil (not by my Co) and plate glass...they had nothing else to offer.

    PG is sensible and well-intentioned (imo), but as any measure he tries to implement will depend on Congress, even if they pass, might be only half-baked, and not have the desired effect. But as far as waste n' corruption are concerned, he should be able to wield some power in that direction, based on the fact that he is picking his staff from the best Brazil can offer, people without a history of corruption....very different to before, where the most important qualification was the willingness to join the gang. Hopefully that should be able to counter balance the appetite politicians have for money, by keeping them away from it.

    Re Gollum and his few seconds of self-assumed glory, what's all this about Weintraub saying “there were amendments” , and referring to F. Kafka, as 'kafta' ? ?? was Weintraub speaking, or was it something he wrote ?

    Jun 03rd, 2019 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “Trying to be an expert” if you got a problem address it to the blogger, who I'm citing. That many of the present governmentare ignoramuses isn't exactly a secret. Abraham Weintraub fits in wonderfully with that other Portuguese deficient, Moro the Moron.
    “Mourão & Haiti, B's wife's weakness” all complete with citations as to their sources. Unlike you who blabs away and inevitably is shown to be spouting utter nonsense.

    Jun 03rd, 2019 - 11:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    Magnifying glass, anyone?
    http://www.chargeonline.com.br/php/charges/AUTO_sinovaldo.jpg

    Jun 04th, 2019 - 09:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    “very few, if any, ex-colonies were prepared for a new future, on their own”

    Probably not. But you've got to wonder how much progress (social and economic) there was in eg the 50 years before independence, that left them so very unprepared. Apparently only France tried to develop them at all. Seems the only countries that did okay after independence were the ones that were more developed before they lost it. And in the worst cases, they just went from being ruled by a foreign country, to being ruled by a homegrown dictator.

    “plate glass”

    That's such a random thing for them to be exporting, lol. They probably can't even make it these days, since imports have become impossible or unaffordable.

    “But as far as waste n' corruption are concerned, he should be able to wield some power in that direction”

    That's more positive than I expected, I was afraid you'd say no one person could make much of a difference since the decisions on contracts and actual work would happen further down the chain, necessarily depending on other people. I do think getting the building projects going again, that have been suspended due to the LJ investigation/prosecutions, would help the economy.

    Re Weintraub, Terry did link to it in his comment, but for some reason it's paywalled for me now though it was working earlier. Looks like 'haviam emendas' was something he said in a video released on social media, not sure about 'Kafta', maybe on twitter? I don't know what's wrong with the first one, presume it's something you learn in school. Is the Enem an exam like A levels?

    Jun 04th, 2019 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    ”But you've got to wonder how much progress (social and economic) there was in eg the 50 years before independence, that left them so very unprepared.”
    Right, can't deny that....but on the other hand, one should also ask, how much progress was there in the 50 years after independence ? Perhaps a planned transition of power, say over 10 years ? but how willing would local leaders be - who wanted it immediately, and believed it was 'their' chance to take over (for personal reasons) - to go along with such a plan ?
    The ex-French colonies, as I've mentioned before, were the best.

    PG has put a good team in charge, but what they can really do carries on depending on Congress. The pension reform is only the first step, which (once passed) should be followed by many smaller reforms which are meant to complement each other, to get public finances back on track and create a more flexible, reliable and favorable investment environment.
    Without a doubt, big infrastructure projects would energize the market.

    Re Weitraub : “havia” or “haviam emendas” : watched the video - the verb “haver”, can be translated as “there is” or “there are”, and if used in the sense of “occuring” or “existing”, would be impersonal....th4 used in 3rd person singular ('havia'). The catch is that the use of verbs “ocorrer” (to occur) 'n “existir” (to exist) in Portuguese, when used with plural nouns, such as “emendas” (plural of 'amendment' in Portuguese) would be used in the 3rd person plural...which is almost certainly why he inadvertently (imo) used “haver” in the 3rd person plural....quite common in speaking, but nevertheless a mistake.

    The ENEM, is a national exam taken yearly by students in the last year of medium level (pre-university), and is used to measure, or evaluate the level, or quality of learning / teaching...I believe the grades obtained by the students also go towards their evaluation when trying to enter public universities. It would be equivalent to O levels.

    Jun 04th, 2019 - 10:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    My point is, we can't assume that waiting another 10 or 20 years for independence would result in them being much better prepared for it. And more to the point, neither could they. Too much would depend on the colonisers, who were mostly more interested in fixing their own ailing economies (after WWII), than developing the colonies and strengthening institutions there. Combine that with a natural impatience to have control of their own affairs, among both the people and leaders, and you end up with the situation today. In retrospect, probably everyone was far too optimistic. If you look at the 50 years after the Spanish colonies became independent, you see a lot of wars over territory, civil wars, various strongmen/dictators, and general unrest. Perhaps the UN thought we were more advanced, things would be different in the 20th century, but it didn't work out that way.

    I think France stayed more involved with their ex-colonies, created a currency union etc, so maybe that made a difference.

    Re 'haver', what does impersonal mean? Are there any such verbs in English?

    We don't do O levels any more, and if students go straight to university afterwards then it's not really equivalent to any exam in England. Sounds like doing all 10 GCSE exams in one go, and with harder subject matter; that's hardcore. Did you take it?

    Jun 05th, 2019 - 05:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    DT
    Fact is, few colonies really benefited fm independence (after 1960). And we can only consider what actually happened. Why would ex-colonizers be truly interested in transforming ex-colonies into independent, thriving economies ? they gave independence reluctantly, but chose to maintain the yoke through trade.
    The “natural impatience to control their own affairs” sounds wonderful, but were they more interested in : dedicating themselves, selflessly, to their countries, or to take control while they believed they had the upper hand, to fill their pockets ?

    “Perhaps the UN thought we were more advanced....”...The UN forgot abt human nature, which cannot be taken out of the equation....people will not always do what's best for the country.

    “Haver”; It's just about the most irregular verb there is ; the reason it's 'impersonal' here, is because when used in the sense of 'to exist' : for ex., in “there are amendments” (amendments exist), there is no subject....being 'impersonal' implies there's no subject, and it does not “bend” with the noun, whether it's in the singular or plural.
    The tense of the verb doesn't change the rule either, when used in the sense of 'to exist' - it's always in the singular, i.e., “there were amendments” = “havia emendas” (past tense) ; “there are amendments = ”há emendas” (present) ; you can see the verb does not follow the noun (emendas) which is in the plural“.
    Used in other senses, AND when there IS a subject, it 'bends' with the subject...ex: ”Os sindicalistas não HAVIAM aceitado a proposta”
    Os sindicalistas (the 'union leaders'= subject, in the plural)
    não HAVIAM (they had not = 3rd person, plural)
    aceitado a proposta (accepted the proposal)

    I don't know what GCSE exams are, but when I did it, O levels were essential to go on to do A levels (necry for entering University). But because I transferred to the Brazilian system after the O levels, I had to take a 3 year pre-university course (equivalent to A levels)

    Jun 05th, 2019 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    “Why would ex-colonizers be truly interested in transforming ex-colonies into independent, thriving economies ?”

    It would probably benefit them in the long term, but which politicians care about the long term? Anyway, they were no more interested in transforming soon-to-be-ex-colonies into independent, thriving economies, so there was no real reason for the latter to wait for independence. Some benefited, some were worse off, and for a lot of people probably not much changed.

    “but were they more interested in”

    Depends on the person, and they're not mutually exclusive. Most were probably more interested in power than money, but the two go together.

    “The UN forgot abt human nature”

    Perhaps they did. I think there was a lot of optimism after the war, that things could be different, and they could build a better world. And in many ways they did, but that doesn't mean all problems were solved.

    Re 'haver', it sounds like transitive and intransitive verbs in English, but they are not conjugated differently. I don't think there is really any equivalent, though it reminds me of a difference between British and American English. Americans say “I'll write you”, which sounds very ungrammatical in England. Here you have to say “I'll write to you”.

    GCSEs are the replacement for (GCE) O levels and CSEs. In the olden days (back when you were at school ;)) kids in England took an exam at age 11 that determined their future education. Those who passed went to grammar schools and did O levels, then they could take A levels and some went on to university. Those who failed went to crappier schools and did CSEs, left at 16 and got jobs. They did not have a chance to do A levels. My parents both failed the 11+ - and this system is what put people in Britain off elitism, because a lot can change between age 11 and 18. Now everyone takes GCSEs and can get grades from A* - G (C is usually considered a pass).

    Would students normally take the ENEM at 18 if it's the end of high school?

    Jun 06th, 2019 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “Trying to be an expert” Is clearly yourself, who cannot prove any such expertise, whereas the the professional writer I'm quoting is duly qualified.
    “Bernardo Mello Franco
    He is a policy columnist for GLOBO. It also went through Jornal do Brasil and Folha de S.Paulo. He was correspondent in London and reporter in Rio, in SP and Brasilia. He is the author of ”A Thousand Days of Storm - The crisis that overthrew Dilma and left Temer by a thread“
    So at the end of the day ”The Minister of Education, Abraham Weintraub, seems to have an irreconcilable problem with the Portuguese language.” Is still true.

    Jun 06th, 2019 - 11:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Do keep up, Terry. We know he made a mistake, we've been discussing why what he said is wrong.

    Bet you don't even know what an impersonal verb is.

    Jun 06th, 2019 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    @Terence Hill

    REF: Abraham Weintraub, seems to have an irreconcilable problem with the Portuguese language

    That's just because of his hereditary poverty-problem. Pl. have at least SOME consideration for the poor chap!

    By the way - does ANYONE know?
    http://www.chargeonline.com.br/php/charges/AUTO_adnael.jpg

    Jun 06th, 2019 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
    Do keep up, your arguing above your pay-grade as an expert has rendered their qualified opinion.
    Stick to what you do best sucking.

    Jun 06th, 2019 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    DT
    “It would probably benefit them - ex-colonies - in the long term, but which politicians care about the long term?”.....that is exactly my point.....how many are true patriots ? My point is, that while colonies, at least they had some semblance of organization (law 'n order ?). The moment independence was granted, it became a grab for power.

    “...and for a lot of people probably not much changed.” I'd say that applied to the majority.

    “Depends on the person, and they're not mutually exclusive.” right, depends on the person....how many in West Africa staged coups and improved the countries ? I was in Liberia in 1980 when its president was assassinated....Samuel Doe, a sargeant who took over, just wanted power. Theoretically, independence should presume the people should benefit from it...no ?
    Optimism is a great quality, but when it makes people ignore the harsh realities of some situations, it's more like extreme naiveté.

    “Re 'haver', it sounds like transitive and intransitive verbs in English”....sounds about right....transitive verbs express action and require a subject....as Vs intransitive ones. I've forgotten most of it.

    OK, GCE, General Certificate of Education...the name rings a bell. In England, the exams taken at 11, which could determine one's future, presumably were only obligatory in public schools ? Sounds like a system to separate the more intelligent from the less intelligent, and not waste money on the latter...but ok, I agree it can suck, as a kid at 12 might regret being lazy but has lost his chance...

    At 18 +/-, when you should be ready for University, the ENEM's grades are one way to enter University....some (mainly private) have their own entry exams. When I tried to get iny, most had their own entry exams, which meant their dates could get in the way of another...so you had to decide which 2 or 3 Unis you wanted to try to get into...I tried 2, got into both.

    Are you still good enough to waste your time on Gollum ?

    Jun 06th, 2019 - 11:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “Are you still good enough” Apparently not as you're still incapable of presenting a coherent argument. Instead you rely on the standby of the lying idiot.

    Jun 07th, 2019 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    @Jack Bauer

    REF: ”While colonies, at least they had some semblance of organization (law 'n order ?). The moment independence was granted, it became a grab for power

    Plundering by the mercenaries continues - before, during and after the Colonization. Or rather, in one form or the other; Oppression+Colonization NEVER stopped!
    http://chicoandrade.com.br/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/charge_1607.jpg

    Jun 07th, 2019 - 12:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    I meant it would benefit the colonisers if the former colonies were stable, increasingly developed countries rather than war-torn disaster zones or poverty-stricken money sinks. Perhaps some take the very cynical view that the latter are easier to exploit for outside profit, but even if you don't care about human suffering, for the rest of us it's rather outweighed by the resulting refugees, not to mention terrorists... But politicians in the UK are not particularly concerned about the long term, either.

    ”My point is, that while colonies, at least they had some semblance of organization (law 'n order ?).”

    Maybe, but most ex-colonies do have functional governments. The Caribbean countries are mostly doing okay, East Asia is definitely improving and India is the biggest democracy in the world. You're probably thinking of Africa, but it's not like they knew in advance which ones would turn out badly. We don't hear much about the countries that are peaceful and functional. As for crime, Brazil is up there with the worst on murder rate. I don't think you can blame that on becoming independent 200 years ago.

    Re transitive and intransitive verbs, grammar was out of fashion when I was at school, so we weren't taught any. Literally not even the difference between a verb and a noun. This wasn't very helpful when it came to learning a foreign language... Every new education minister insists on dicking around with it, usually adding more testing, more paperwork for teachers and making everything as regimented as possible. There's no room for imagination or inspiring the kids any more.

    More to come...

    @Idiotface
    Why do you bother posting when you clearly have nothing to say? We could replace you with a bot and no one would notice the difference.

    @ :o))
    Damn, that was from Dilma's presidency, and may as well be yesterday. :(

    Jun 07th, 2019 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
    The thread is about budget cuts in education. Your bosom bud was the one who raised the issue as to the competency of students Portuguese, involved in the protests. I have simply referenced a professionally qualified writer's assessment of Minister of Education Portuguese competency. While you two love birds have gone round in circles trying to obsticate the issue. “We could replace you...” I'm glad you labour under the illusion that your opinion has meaning. With that big head of yours it explains why you can't stay focussed on an issue, you're too top heavy. Keep on sucking it's apparently your only motive for being here.

    Jun 07th, 2019 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Thanks, Terrybot.

    @JB
    I guess the 11+ was only obligatory in state schools, don't really know. And an 11 year old might be lazy and not care about their future yet, or they might have a bad day and screw up the exam, or they might be a late bloomer who could forge ahead later if given the chance. Plus there was no fixed pass mark, the number who passed would depend entirely on the number of grammar school places in the area. So the same kid could pass or fail depending on their postcode. My dad failed the exam, left school at 16 and got a job, but he was sent to university a few years later by his company after going to nightschool to get an entry qualification equivalent to A levels. As you can imagine, he's not a big fan of the old system.

    Different entry exams for each university sounds like a right pain. Much better to have a single exam or qualification that they all use, which it sounds like the Enem is. Are coursework or grades in class not taken into account in Brazil?

    In the UK applications are done before the A level results come out, so all places are provisional. If you do worse than expected, you can lose your place and might have to wait until next year to apply somewhere else.

    As for Gollum, it's too tempting to poke him - I've never met anyone else simultaneously so foolish and so arrogant. But he does have his uses. ;)

    Jun 07th, 2019 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    @DemonTree

    REF: “Damn, that was from Dilma's presidency, and may as well be yesterday”

    Brazilian Patience is truly admirable! Besides waiting for the “Return of Christ”; they also are patiently waiting for an eternal erection of the little old “pibinho”. After all, the old culture & the traditions MUST be kept very much alive:
    http://f.i.uol.com.br/folha/mercado/images/16167326.jpeg

    Jun 07th, 2019 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    DT
    “I meant it'd benefit colonisers if former colonies were stable”

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Central/W.Africa, while still colonies, most things were “relatively” under control.
    “Perhaps some take the very cynical view that the latter are easier to exploit for outside profit”....yes, as why otherwise would more developed countries even want colonies ? 'n we all know that avoiding human suffering was not high on the colonizers' list. While pushing for independence, the various groups - who saw themselves as the next in power - had the same objective, but since none were willing to step down, the fighting that ensued is no surprise. So, the question is, looking at reality, when would the right moment have been - earlier, later, never ?

    “Maybe, but most ex-colonies do have functional governments”....those you mentioned yes, probably due to their potential 'n a better approach to progress....but look at W.Africa, 'n Angola, Moçambique...what about them, their appalling living conditions ?
    “it's not like they knew in advance which ones would turn out badly”...as I am talking of W.Africa, perhaps not, but given the type of colonization , not surprising. Apologize for sticking to Africa, but it's because what I saw.
    The circumstances under which countries became independent 200 years ago, while some being the same - i.e., crime - were very different to the 1960s. Brazil's high crime rates have nothing to do with independence, but rather the culture of the “jeitinho” (there's 'always a way out'), 'n a generally lenient approach to fighting crime...seems to be changing, but too slowly.

    Learning English, Portuguese, French grammar etc, was taken seriously at school. Was almost second nature - if you bothered to learn - but it was a loooong time ago.

    Gollum is not capable of differentiating btwn a pardonable mistake when speaking (Weintraub) and one in writing, due to sheer ignorance (the student), however he believes we should listen to his dispensable bs.

    Jun 07th, 2019 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
    “I've never met anyone else simultaneously so foolish” You're unable to best me on any issue, what do you think that makes you? You should be where we can see you in full view. Complete with your ego tripping, and coupled with your sucking need of acceptance by one of the most amoral person's on this site.

    Jun 07th, 2019 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    “I guess the 11+ was only obligatory in state schools, don't really know.”....anyhow, doesn't sound very sensible...If the cuts are going to exist, would be better at a later age, when the kids are supposed to be aware of their options, and of their consequences.

    Afaik, public Uni entrance exams here have been unified quite a bit, allowing students with the better results to chose their options, while vacancies are still available. Presumably this means that at some point, students below a certain grade will be left out....but then again, if a student who got a high-enough mark to get in, decides to change course, this might open up room for the next in line...and I don't know, but it would make sense for students who want to do engineering for ex., not compete with those who want medical school...or Law.
    High school grades are not taken into account....but an evaluation over 3 years might be more rational than some final exams (at the end) that decide everything....it would force greater dedication over 3 years, singling out those who don't care, and also avoid the stress of everything riding on a final exam.

    Yeah, you're right, the slimy, demented beast does have his uses.

    Jun 07th, 2019 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    @Terence Hill

    REF: “All deny wrongdoing”:

    Simply because ALL are innocent [& ignorant]!
    https://i0.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Bolsonaro-Fascista.jpg?resize=640%2C431&ssl=1

    Jun 07th, 2019 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “You're right ..” Said TweedleDum to TweedleDee. Amazing that one without one redeeming character feature has the chutzpah to pass comments on others. You are archetypal reference ”People in glass-houses shouldn't throw stones. Heres why, just to remind you of your well deserved reputation as the biggest liar on this site and thus the slimiest.
    http://en. mercopress.com/2018/04/04/brazil-s-conundrum-army-chief-twits-good-citizens-repudiate-impunity-and-respect-the-constitution/comments#comment486481
    http://en. mercopress.com/2017/07/12/brazil-former-president-lula-da-silva-found-guilty-of-corruption/comments#comment470714
    http://en. mercopress.com/2017/07/20/ex-brazilian-president-assets-and-bank-accounts-frozen/comments#comment471145
    http://en. mercopress.com/2018/03/20/lula-begins-tour-of-south-brazil-and-meets-mujica-but-it-was-a-bad-day-for-both-leaders/comments#comment485779
    http://en. mercopress.com/2018/11/22/brazil-s-secret-dealings-to-contract-cuban-physicians-to-work-in-the-more-doctors-program/comments#comment495051

    Jun 07th, 2019 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Whoa Gollum, I used the word slimy first, to describe you....at least try to be original if you don't know how to be honest....
    On the other hand, who d'you think is going to bother to read your shit ?

    Jun 07th, 2019 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “Who d'you think is going to bother to read your shit ?” about you, or your potty mouth?
    Well, mine is both truthful and thus proven. Which has great entertainment value as it strips away your veneer, and shows as really are, hilariously funny. Thanks for opportunity for a plug.

    Jun 07th, 2019 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    REF: “to PROTEST budget cuts”:

    I wonder; WHY protest?

    - Ignorance is BLISS
    - Ignorance is THE Trend
    - Ignorance is the FASHION
    - Ignorance is Compulsory
    - Ignorants ARE plentiful!
    http://www.chargeonline.com.br/php/charges/jean.jpg

    Jun 08th, 2019 - 09:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    “Central/W.Africa, while still colonies, most things were “relatively” under control.”

    Apart from the two world wars between the colonial states, which were also fought in their African colonies, and the various wars for independence, sure. Angola was at war with Portugal before the revolution there, and after Portugal left, it turned into a civil war. So that didn't work out well. But at that point I don't think Portugal even wanted to keep its colonies, and it was a pretty poor country itself, so what was the alternative? Maybe Brazil could have taken them over? ;)

    Looking at those countries, some gained independence a lot earlier than others, and I'm not seeing much of a correlation with which are doing better now.

    “why otherwise would more developed countries even want colonies”

    I was talking about after independence, but you can't assume keeping colonies poor and undeveloped is the best way to make money off them. When Spain and Portugal first went to South America, they were basically only interested in (stealing) gold and silver, but later, when colonies became valuable for raw materials and trade it made sense to build infrastructure, educate at least some of the people, etc. Agree avoiding human suffering was not high on their list, though.

    “Brazil's high crime rates have nothing to do with independence”

    I wasn't sure what you meant by 'law 'n order' being worse after independence, but I don't think Brazil's crime has much to do with that. Poverty, inequality, and the drug trade that moved into Brazil after neighbouring countries cracked down have more to do with it.

    Re Weintraub, his mistake seems less obvious, but as education minister he ought to set a better example than a random undergraduate.

    I did learn some French grammar at school; two types of past tense, one formed with an auxiliary verb (IIRC avoir, but etre for a few words). I've forgotten most of it, too.

    @Useful Idiot
    Jack struck a nerve calling you slimy, huh? You suck.

    Jun 08th, 2019 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
    “Jack struck a nerve” Hardly it would have to have at least a semblance of reality. Like his constant revealed lying, or by someone with credibility, which neither of you chumps have.

    Jun 08th, 2019 - 11:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Thanks, useful idiot.

    @JB
    “If the cuts are going to exist, would be better at a later age”

    Yeah. Or if they want to send some kids to a more advanced school, then pull than out at any age, based on their ongoing work and not on one exam. There's already a 'cut' at 16, since only those who do well in GCSEs can go on to A levels. England is unusual for having a qualification at 16, AFAIK, and I think it's good that people who hate academics don't have to do 2 more years of school. They still need to do something with their lives, though.

    “public Uni entrance exams here have been unified quite a bit”

    Sounds sensible. Do students apply to do a particular course like here, or do they choose later like in America? If it's the former, then presumably would-be engineers are not competing with would-be historians to get in.

    There's a place for exams, but an ongoing evaluation would be useful as well. GCSE's and A levels included coursework - essays and projects done during the year - and the US has their GPA which I think is the teacher's assessment. Personally, I hated coursework, but some people do better with more time and less pressure compared to an exam.

    As for Terry, I asked him to give me space once - not to reply to you, I know he's too big an asshole to help anyone voluntarily - but to reply to HIM. The idiot refused, so he never got his reply. Ironic, isn't it, that he responds to insults but not to a simple request?

    Jun 08th, 2019 - 01:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    DT
    Fact is, in Africa nothing turned out well.
    “Maybe Brazil could have taken them over?”.....LOL....can't even look after itself..
    The big difference - that I see - between Brazil and the US, is that while they were “discovered” around the same time, that they got their independence only 46 years apart, they were colonized /populated by people with different mentalities...one to exploit, the other to build a new nation.

    “but you can't assume keeping colonies poor and undeveloped is the best way to make money off them”. I'm not assuming that...it's what happened - which colonies “progressed” at the same rate - or even close - to that of the colonial states ? Spain & Portugal had little interest other than to exploit their colonies...

    “wasn't sure what you meant by 'law 'n order' being worse after independence” ...I didn't say it was - I said independence 'n crime weren't related. The NEastern habit of solving disputes by killing, spread to the rest of Brazil, to a greater or lesser extent, as a result of migration and who was already settled there.

    I've heard quite a few Brazilians, highly educated, make slip ups every now 'n again....even journalists earning big money.

    Looks like in the UK, the education system does go eliminating the less intelligent / dedicated, as the line progresses. Makes sense.
    Digging deeper, believe all students, regardless of the course they want, compete together, in the same bunch of exams held over 2 weekends. The better grades give them the right to choose what they want. The USP has it's own selection process, the FUVEST.

    Gollum is arrogant ('n slimy) to the point of dispensing productive debate...all he wants to do, is show his self-proclaimed superiority, try to diminish others by false arguments, calling them liars....but one thing he is right about - it has “has great entertainment value”, but nothing constructive...but we have to forgive him due to his diminished brain capacity...a big head, but a small brain.

    Jun 08th, 2019 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
    “I asked him to give me space once - not to reply to you,” If that was so I'm more than happy to oblige, but it is noticeable that you fail to show such an instance, and not one other person was was willing to comply.
    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “try to diminish others by false arguments, calling them liars”
    Nothing false, I have provided citations of just a few of the scores of occasions you where have lied.
    https://en.mercopress.com/2019/05/31/thousands-of-students-and-teachers-took-to-the-streets-of-brazil-to-protest-bugget-cuts/comments#comment501434

    Jun 08th, 2019 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    “Citations are proof”....of what ? nothing really, other than to support Gollum's deliria.

    Jun 08th, 2019 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “Citations are proof”....of what ?” Are proof absolute of your continuing fraud.

    Jun 08th, 2019 - 06:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Gollum, wake up, you must be dreaming...or rather, having a nightmare....but don't be nervous, you poor, slimy creature...

    Jun 08th, 2019 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “You must be..” You wish, I have the proof of the facts of your lies, from your own posts.
    While all you can do is to wallow in the mixture of your own concocted opinion. So who is slimy again?
    fact vs opinion
    “The fact is something, that has actually taken place or known to have existed, which can be validated with pieces of evidence. They are strictly defined, and can be measured, observed and proven. It refers to something that makes statements true and used in connection with research and study.
    A fact can be an event or information, based on real occurrences which can be tested through verifiability, i.e. they are supported by proofs, statistics, documentation, etc. Therefore, a fact is nothing but a verifiable truth or reality which are agreed upon by consensus of people.”
    https://keydifferences.com/difference-between-fact-and-opinion.html

    Jun 08th, 2019 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Gollum proof.

    Jun 08th, 2019 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    “which colonies “progressed” at the same rate - or even close - to that of the colonial states ?”

    The 13 that became the USA. IIRC, at the time of independence the average person there was much richer than those back in Britain. Like you said, people went there to build a new nation, or at least new lives, not to make a fortune and then come home. But most colonies were not like the US. How about during the Napoleonic wars, when the Portuguese royal family moved to Brazil? Did that lead to more nation building instead of exploitation?

    RE law and order, I was referring to what you said earlier: ”while colonies, at least they had some semblance of organization (law 'n order ?)“ You weren't talking about crime?

    Re university, seems like an odd system to me, having people competing for places who may want to study completely different things. Plus it sounds like the system takes no account of aptitude for different things. You could be a genius at maths or engineering but end up at a crappy university, or not get in at all because you're bad at Portuguese - or vice versa. Makes me very glad I grew up in England where I could drop the subjects I disliked and was bad at, to concentrate on the ones I liked.

    ”all he wants to do, is show his self-proclaimed superiority, try to diminish others by false arguments, calling them liars”

    Exactly. He's not interested in finding the truth, or learning anything, only in turning every conversation into a debate and 'winning' - according to his own rules, which never apply to him.

    @Unobliging fool
    https://en.mercopress.com/2018/08/21/brazilian-election-increasingly-polarized-lula-s-support-increases-and-so-does-far-right-bolsonaro/comments#comment491743

    Jun 08th, 2019 - 10:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
    “I asked him to give me space once - not to reply to you,” Is what you claim, the link you gave is nothing to do with any such matter. It involves a series of exchanges between JB and myself, so there is no such request. So if I'm not asked what you claim, I can hardly be 'Unobliging'.
    “Exactly...” for which no proof given. All you've shown is you're the only one who is really trying to win for the sake of winning. When both truth and your obligation are jettisoned in your zeal to win.

    Jun 09th, 2019 - 12:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Can't you read, idiot face?

    DT: “Now why don't you reply on the other thread so I can tell you what I think of the story you linked to? Seems you only care to reply when I argue with you.”

    TH: ““Now why don't you reply ...” Why don't you kiss my ass.”

    Jun 09th, 2019 - 01:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
    “I asked him to give me space once - not to reply to you,” Has now been changed to.
    ”Now why don't you reply ...” Why don't you kiss my ass.” Is what you now claim. Which is still my sentiment today, as I don't do 'command performances' at the insistence of a troll on some other unnamed thread. Anymore than I would attempt to impose such restrictions on any other poster. The question is 'Who died and made you God?.' Bring your ego to the fore, and I'll happily shoot it down.

    Jun 09th, 2019 - 01:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    “I'm more than happy to oblige” has been turned to “kiss my ass”. Thanks for admitting I was 100% correct, asshole.

    Jun 09th, 2019 - 08:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
    “Thanks for admitting I was 100% correct, asshole.”
    Hardly, “I asked him to give me space once - not to reply to you” is nothing like “Now why don't you reply ...”
    How am I supposed to understand what you don't show correctly. So the only asshole is you, you're the only one who is really trying to win for the sake of winning. When both truth and your obligation are jettisoned in your zeal to score.

    Jun 09th, 2019 - 10:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    It's exactly like saying I needed space to reply, I literally said I wanted to respond to a story you posted. How can you possibly misunderstand that?

    Jun 09th, 2019 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
    'I literally said I wanted” We know, your words tell the whole story of your attempted subterfuge.
    You're particularly irked that your bosom bud, after starting a personal attack on me has once again been bested, and revealed as the nasty little person that he is. So you're in good company, you deserve one another, as you share the same lack of ethics.

    Jun 09th, 2019 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    I was referring - again - to African colonies, as versus the colonizer states...Britain, France, Germany, Belgium, Portugal etc....not the USA. “The 13 that became the USA...” and that is exactly what I'm saying....the people who left Britain were looking for a new, better life, with more freedom....and fought for independence when they realized England was not having it.
    When the Portuguese Royal familiy fled to Brazil, in 1808, the whole court moved with Dom João VI...they simply transferred the court / govt to Brazil without any intention of changing their policies with regards to Brazil...only after 1821, when they returned to Portugal, did some of local leaders (José Bonifácio for one) get to work on D,Pedro I, who been left here as Prince-Regent Prince, without any real power, just Lisbon's puppet...only after independence in 1822 - with a lot of help from Lord Admiral Cochrane (Navy) - did they succeed in kicking out the Portuguese military and those who were against independence - and start to think of Brazil in terms of a soverign nation, with potential..

    “You weren't talking about crime?”...no, was talking in the sense of govt structure and organization.

    “seems like an odd system to me, having people competing for places who may want to study completely different things”......can't disagree, and that was how it was before they unified it....but, it was probably easier (not necrly better). They probably reckoned that the best sudents at one thing, would be the best all round, and in the end it would average out...

    What a presumptious fool Gollum is ..LOL....“the link you gave is nothing to do with any such matter. It involves a series of exchanges between JB and myself,”....exchanges 'between JB and myself' (presuming Gollum)....I have long given up serious exchanges with Gollum, he is incapable of them....all he does is post stale news - not to mention what he “thinks” are other people's lies - as if anyone is going to take it seriously.

    Jun 09th, 2019 - 10:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “Not to mention what he “thinks” are other people's lies”
    Still desperately opining even after clear and convincing evidence proves you are a liar.
    Your toast buddy, done like dinner, your history, yesterdays news.
    “Facts can change anybody’s opinion, but vice versa is not possible.
    Facts are real information and so it cannot be challenged or debated, ...
    https://keydifferences.com/difference-between-fact-and-opinion.html
    ”As if anyone is going ... ” You wish DumDum, as long as I use your own words to prove you are a liar, the record is then unalterable.

    Jun 09th, 2019 - 11:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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