MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Bolsonaro sacks moderate member of his “military” cabinet
Brazil’s president Jair Bolsonaro replaced his minister in charge of political relations with Congress, the presidential spokesman said. Government Secretary Carlos Alberto dos Santos Cruz was fired during a meeting with Bolsonaro, according to reports in the Brazilian media last week. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesNow that the cat is out of the bag:
Jun 17th, 2019 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0https://theintercept.com/2015/07/04/nsa-top-brazilian-political-and-financial-targets-wikileaks/
I dont know. May be. Or not. Who knows?
Jun 18th, 2019 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peN_LHvmawA
@:o))
Jun 18th, 2019 - 10:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Looks like The Intercept will be getting a bit more attention that it intended ....rumour (for now) has it that Glen Greenwald - David Miranda's husband and Congressmen, who took over Jean Wylly's seat - received a humongus donation from some leftist billionaire, and used part of it - US$ 700,000.00 - to buy the seat for his 'hubbie', to pay Wyllys US$ 10,000.00 a month (to leave the country)....and surprise, it seems the information was obtained by a Brazilian hacker who invaded The Intercept's private files....
And it has just been divulged that Dilma Busseffa, and Gleisi Hoffmann - two lovely ladies - have just returned from Russia, after a (relatively secretive) 10 day visit ....where the suspected (main) hacker of Moro's and Dallagnol's phone exchanges, supposedly hangs out.....mere coincidence ? Of course, who would ever think those two lovely women (ugh !) would be capable of such a conspiracy ? The PT only has Brazil's best interests at heart !
@Jack Bauer
Jun 19th, 2019 - 02:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “The Intercept will be getting a bit more attention than it intended”:
Everything appears to be well-orchestrated/organized; could strategically be intended to create the maximum damage; 'strangely helped' by the panicked government!
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7j3zTgT-yXI/VpdzDGUA-uI/AAAAAAAAB20/vTlYryYiQdw/s1600/PtxVazouMoro.jpg
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jun 19th, 2019 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse +1”Rumour (for now)” Which means no evidence. Meanwhile, Moro and the prosecution prima facia engaged in a 'criminal conspiracy' 'to pervert the course of justice' Which in a normal legal system would be considered the same as perjury, which if it resulted in a wrongful conviction. Would result in the perjurer receiving the same sentence that was inflicted on the 'wrongfully convicted.
Lava Jato: “The Narrative Must Be Protected At All Costs”
It is simply the most important geopolitical story of recent times. Documents leaked to the Intercept have led to the exposure of ostensible anti-corruption Operation Lava Jato (Carwash) as a means to rig Brazil’s 2018 election, and worse still, which was carried out in conjunction with the United States Government.
And this is only the beginning, Lava Jato’s role in the impeachment of Dilma Rousseff and in enabling the selloff of Brazil’s resources and strategic companies to US corporations are all now being intensely scrutinised,
Far beyond that, Operation Lava Jato has inflicted catastrophic damage on the country. Politically, economically, socially, and to its national sovereignty.
We must ask why the available evidence, such as the U.S. Department of Justice’s Kenneth Blanco’s 2017 speech at NATO think tank the Atlantic Council, in which he boasted about the DoJ role in Lava Jato and the prosecution of Lula, was completely ignored until now.
http://www.brasilwire.com/the-narrative-must-be-protected-at-all-costs/
This sacking and the resignation of the head of the development bank seems like a bad sign.
Jun 20th, 2019 - 10:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0@JB
Where did all that come from? Have you changed your mind about Wyllys conspiring with Bispo, then?
I was reading the latest thing they published, about how the LJ team investigated FHC just to look like they were being impartial, without intending to proceed with any prosecution. That's exactly what I suspected was happening!
@DemonTree
Jun 20th, 2019 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: That's exactly what I suspected was happening!
Do you really mean that you have given up believing in such highly illustrated + gentlemanly politicians; simply because they are just a little bit too crooked?
DT
Jun 20th, 2019 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“This sacking/resignation of the head of the BNDES seems like a bad sign”.
What are you basing yrself on to conclude that ? When appointed, Levy accepted the obligation to make public the terms of ALL the bank's overseas contracts - which benefited Odebrecht & foreign govt officials ('n we know how), 'n to expose highly suspicions loans to local entrepreneurs (amongst them, JBS, Eike Batista); Levy just dragged his feet on it, pissing Bolsonaro off...perhaps he was just trying to defend his previous bosses ? (only a hypothesis). And I'm not sure whether the bank was keeping its part of the deal to pay back billions it owes to the national treasury (as of end 2018, R$ 416 billion, borrowed btwn 2008/14).
That came from a blogger in Curitiba, Alexandre Brasil, based on information supposedly obtained through hackers...as well. True or false I don't know, but no less credible - or more suspicious, at this moment - than the truncated messages, taken out of context, divulged by The Intercept.
Why d'you think I've changed my mind about Wyllys and Bispo ? the whole assassination attempt could've been financed by the same source that supposedly donated millions to Greenwald - and financed Bispo's defense - and paid off Wyllys to persuade him to abandon his seat in Congress (already afraid the investigation could lead to him ?) ...all events, have one thing in common, the PSOL (Willys' party, Greenwald's 'hubbie's' party, Bispo's ex-party), and some unidentified leftist billionaire financing it ...may sound conspiratorial, but not impossible.
Moro had absolutely nothing to do with getting FHC off the hook - that is, if he was ever on it - but the fact is it was a different judge who decided that 'possible' crimes - committed in 1996 - had prescribed. The PT is doing its damndest to link Moro to everything it can...even accused him of taking a course that cost R$ 170,000 to “teach” him how to respond to the Committee...as if he needed it. The PT is a disgrace.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jun 20th, 2019 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The PT is a disgrace” Hardly, it is more fitting for an apparently corrupt judge.
”At one speech at the Wilson Center in July 2016, Moro was asked about his refusal to prosecute corrupt politicians from the PSDB, to which he replied “This Party was in the opposition, so it wouldn’t make sense.” At the time he made the speech, however, two time presidential election runner up for the PSDB, José Serra, was serving as Brazil’s Minister of Foreign Relations.
Moro’s justification for not prosecuting members of the PSDB seems suspicious since his wife Rosangela, whose law firm (Zucolotto Associados, ZA) negotiates Lava Jato plea bargains with corrupt businessmen, has also worked as legal advisor to Flavio Arns, Vice-Governor of Paraná for the PSDB. In another apparent conflict of interest, at the outset of the Lava Jato investigation ZA represented petroleum companies who directly benefit from the breakup of Petrobras, including INGRAX and Royal Dutch Shell.”
http://w ww.brasilwire.com/us-admits-role-operation-lava-jato/
@JB
Jun 20th, 2019 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would prefer B favour the moderates in his administration, not the extreme evangelical faction. That's why these events seem like a bad sign. The article on Levy didn't mention making contracts public, but disagreement on 'asset divestitures' and the Amazon Fund.
“True or false I don't know, but no less credible”
What has Glen Greenwald said about it? Moro didn't deny the truth of at least the first set of messages, he just said he hadn't done anything illegal. That makes them far more credible than if he'd denounced them as fakes. This rumour is very conveniently timed, but the donation and claimed spending are things that should be able to be checked. As is the two women's trip, though I don't see what that is supposed to have to do with anything. Visiting Russia is hardly necessary for hacking.
As for Wyllys, I thought you were suggesting an alternative reason for him leaving the country, but apparently it's all part of the same conspiracy. In the meantime, Bispo has been sentenced, with no mention of any collaborators.... is there a conspiracy in the police, too, to hide anyone who worked with Bispo? If so, you'd think the President of Brazil might have had someone else investigate this obvious threat to his life by now...
The thing about FHC hasn't been published in English yet, but it seems to say Dallagnol sent that investigation to a different judge knowing the case was weak, and without checking that it had already prescribed, in order to look more impartial. And Moro finds it questionable because it 'hurts someone who's support is important'. Needless to say, that should not be a consideration for an impartial judge!
https://theintercept.com/2019/06/18/lava-jato-fingiu-investigar-fhc-apenas-para-criar-percepcao-publica-de-imparcialidade-mas-moro-repreendeu-melindra-alguem-cujo-apoio-e-importante/
@JB / @DT / @TH
Jun 21st, 2019 - 01:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: Past/Present Govts.
#1: Proof of the pudding
#2: Depends upon who your favorite crook is
#3: In the meanwhile:
http://www.chargeonline.com.br/php/charges/lute.jpg
@DT
Jun 21st, 2019 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“would prefer B favour moderates in his administration, not extreme evangelical faction”. It's your right to, but it's irrelevant. Levy was sacked becos he wasn't doing his job. Simple. Again, the press omits the real reason why he was sacked. And which are from the “extreme evangelical faction” ?
Afaik, Greenwald's said nothing. On the other hand, IF he has such bombastic info against Moro - unlikely becos everything he's produced so far, are meaningless accusations - why hasn't he produced the “whole” dossier - to the STF, perhaps ? 'n “taken” Moro down ? His slow feed of meaningless bs to the press, is just to keep “scandal” (based on suppositions) in the spotlight, because that is ALL he can do with the fake news he's presenting.
“Moro didn't deny the truth...” He said he couldn't remember every conversation he had 3 years ago, but knows he did not do anything illicit, as in fact, every “produced” conversation proves. Different to 'not denying'. He also said, he is sure these messages, that even Greenwald alleges he doesn't know the source of, are fake concoctions. Nothing is conclusive, just goes round 'n round, without a purpose other than to keep the circus alive.
No, but a relatively secretive visit to Russia, at this very moment, by 2 of Moro's arch-enemies (as they classify themselves), after preliminary investigations show that a hacker from Russia might be involved in feeding Greenwald, is nevertheless suspicious. Why did a nobody (Dilma) 'n Gleisi need to go to Russia ? On their return, “to discuss matters of interest to Brazil”....Not “their” job.
”is there a conspiracy in the police, too(?)...don't think so, think they simply haven't found conclusive evidence.
“Dallagnol sent that investigation...different judge...case was weak”. Whatever he did has no bearing on Moro. If you 'n Greenwald think it was a gimmick, so be it. Gen'l comments on an ex-prez is hardly being partial...It'll go nowhere, but it works for the PT.
@Jack Bauer
Jun 21st, 2019 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “keep the circus alive”
True! This circus is here to stay!
http://www.chargeonline.com.br/php/DODIA//benett.jpg
@JB
Jun 22nd, 2019 - 10:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Levy wasn't sacked, he resigned. Government Secretary Carlos Alberto dos Santos Cruz was sacked; according to the article he “engaged in fierce bickering with the more hard-line ideological wing of the Bolsonaro government”. It also says he argued with B's son Carlos. Seems to me B's kids have far too much influence in his government.
Greenspan has said he will release the whole dossier. Can only assume he hasn't yet because he wants the scoop himself, and the Intercept probably doesn't have the staff to publish it any quicker. Rather a selfish decision if he thinks it's important the information gets out.
“knows he did not do anything illicit, as in fact, every “produced” conversation proves”
If a judge colluding with the prosecutor to send someone to jail isn't illegal in Brazil, it bloody well should be! It's obvious Lula did not have a fair trial; there was absolutely zero chance Moro was going to find him innocent. The whole thing was a farce.
As for being 'fake', if Moro can't tell whether they are or not, that implies he did send such (inappropriate) messages and that they reflect his real concerns at the time. Compare when that idiot Gollum accused you of denying that Heleno was in Haiti. You didn't have to go back through all your old messages, because you knew you wouldn't have said that.
Re the visit to Russia, are you talking about this:
http://duma.gov.ru/en/news/45218/
Says they went to meet the Russian Communist party, I get the impression they are trying build ties with allies. But what has the 'hacking' got to do with Russia? Is it just an assumption based on the Trump thing? I was wondering if it wasn't more likely that someone close to Moro spilled the beans.
“think they simply haven't found conclusive evidence.”
You'd think if there was any evidence at all they'd have mentioned it as an argument against Bispo's insanity defence. How long would Bispo likely have got if he was convicted of attempted murder?
DT
Jun 22nd, 2019 - 11:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0”Green(wald)has said he will release the whole dossier. ... Rather a selfish decision if he thinks it's important the information gets out. He has already established partnership with a publisher with sufficient resources to faciltate
faster releases. Which has probably contributed to this. http://www.brasilwire.com/bruss
Finally, a very encouraging example:
Jun 22nd, 2019 - 03:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0From: Bloomberg:
“Republicans Block Ex-Cons From Voting”
https://twitter.com/business/status/1142453189410742273
Thanx to the generosity of the masses!
In Brazil, they are admired, revered, get elected and are generously requested to steal the Public Funds!
Isn't it the RIGHT time for the Imported Cons to shift permanently to Brazil?
@Terry
Jun 22nd, 2019 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting. They sure do make collaborating with the US sound sinister, but it was still the Brazilian judges and congress members making the decisions.
@JB
Ran out of space for this:
“Gen'l comments on an ex-prez is hardly being partial”
Saying they should go easy on him because they need his support is the exact definition of being partial. I bet if Toffoli said the same about Lula you'd think it was biased as hell.
@ :o))
The Republicans have put a lot of effort into rigging the elections, they wouldn't want it ruined by allowing former criminals to vote.
DT
Jun 22nd, 2019 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“But it was still the Brazilian judges and congress members making the decisions” Which is prohibited by Brazilian law. You are only legally allowed to do what is expressly permitted by statute.
Ruling on cases as judges is not what is prohibited by law; they meant the informal/unofficial cooperation. But that's another thing: what kind of stupid rule is that? It's not a wonder Brazil is so inefficient and bureaucratic!
Jun 22nd, 2019 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Glenn Greenwald forms “support network” to ensure freedom of the press
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 01:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Intercept publisher Glenn Greenwald warned yesterday that he is no longer alone and that press freedom will be secured through a support network of journalists who have just made a commitment to publicize the leaked talks of Moro and Dallagnol.
After partnering with Reinaldo Azevedo, from BandNews (Today, it is worth remembering that Band owner criticized Lava Jato), The Intercept can count on another heavy vehicle, Folha de SP, under the baton of the experienced Monica Bergamo.
Today the journalist warned that Moro wants to use the PF against the person who denounces him, pointing out that the gang will have to lead “thick lead” regarding the first results of investigations into the leak.
This week's Isto Isto magazine reports that “the clues of the main line of investigation lead to Russia”, that is, a fanciful story orchestrated by the police chief and that promises to attack the freedom of the press to prevent the population from becoming aware of the crimes committed by the TRF4 class.
https://blogdacidadania.com.br/2019/06/glenn-greenwald-forma-rede-de-apoio-para-garantir-liberdade-de-imprensa/?fbclid=IwAR1SGU0-Z71k1e9bl5VFEhh_bgKVGIPZvS_GopgdpqS-Wx6euhdjukr5QlQ
DT
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Levy resigned”…semantics, he knew he’d be fired...wasn’t doing his job, but I agree, B’s sons should not interfere.
If Greenwald claims to have anything of substance, how’s he going to prove its authenticity if he can’t even name the source ?
“If a judge colluding with the prosecutor to send someone to jail isn't illegal in Brazil...” Nothing reportedly said proves that…that’s the left’s interpretation…and anyway, just in case you don’t know, it is “very” common for judges (especially of late, STF judges) to meet with prosecutors/defense lawyers to discuss legal proceedings (not evidence).
“…absolutely zero chance Moro was going to find him innocent”…think you’ve developed “Gollumitis”…very contagious. Moro’s decisions were based on evidence, tons of it.
If you were accused of planning to kill someone 3 years ago, you wouldn’t need to remember conversations to know you never planned any such crap. Now if someone said you discussed some business matter with them 3 years ago, you might not remember ‘n would not be able to deny it. Fact is, what he reportedly said contains nothing inappropriate, normal conversation between the parts, so what’s the big deal ?
“…when that idiot Gollum accused you of denying that Heleno was in Haiti”…but that’s a public, well-known-fact, ‘n since I don’t invent crap like he does, I know what I would, or not, have said.
Re Russia, yes. Says “The parties spoke in favor of further full development of cooperation/interaction btwn Russia/ Brazil on a bilateral/ multilateral basis…”. It’s not the PT’s, far less Dilma’s business to discuss international cooperation, unless cooperation between 2 communist parties. Why was “such an important” visit not announced with pomp & ceremony ? and the joint-declaration would be whatever they wanted.
Is Gleisi’s contribution nonexpendable ? Who appointed her ambassador ?
The investigation into Greenwald’s claims, suggests the hacker is Russian.
Re FHC, it had prescribed, so ? What support ?
“Look at this conversation revealed now by the TIB: in November 2015, in a chat called PF-MPF Lava Jet 2, while discussing measures to restrain leaks of task force information, Deltan warned his colleagues that using procedural power to investigate journalists who have published leaked material would not only be difficult but ”virtually impossible,“ because ”journalist who leaks does not commit crime.“
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Deltan was right. The judicial decision of the Superior Court of Justice clearly states : ”The journalist who divulges excerpts of a police investigation that runs in secrecy does not commit any crime.“ The decision further states that ”It is not a matter of trying to punish the in the exercise of a noble profession, reveal, but the hand of those who, having a duty to preserve the secrecy of information, use it to reduce to nothing the authority of the judicial decision and the constitutional guarantees. “ public officials who leak information that they should protect themselves - police officers, prosecutors, judges ... - and not the journalists who publish them.
About a year ago, in May 2018, Deltan and his team wrote and published a manifesto in defense of the virtues of freedom of expression - designed to protect one of the prosecutors.
Deltan - 17:15:22 - ”Public authorities are subject to criticism and have a lesser sphere of privacy than the citizen who is not a public person.”
Deltan's argument is precisely correct - even if to the prosecutor it ceases to apply when the public authority in question is itself.fbclid=IwAR0mIrXI-T8-wc8Ph0jdvfxbS3rEgCE9ohfLjYQYVhCgpoHOHrlotbsLY3U
https://theintercept.com/2019/06/22/antes-de-serem-alvos-de-vazamentos-deltan-e-lava-jato-celebravam-direito-de-jornalistas-publicarem-informacoes-vazadas-ilegalmente/?fbclid=IwAR0mIrXI-T8-wc8Ph0jdvfxbS3rEgCE9ohfLjYQYVhCgpoHOHrlotbsLY3U
@JB
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 10:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”it is “very” common for judges (especially of late, STF judges) to meet with prosecutors/defense lawyers to discuss legal proceedings“
To discuss which cases they should pursue, on the basis of whether they could be prosecuted before the presidential election, and to plan how to make the suspect look bad in the press?
”think you’ve developed “Gollumitis”“
You can't assume he's always wrong. He also believes the Falklands are British, for example. Best just to ignore his opinion.
”Moro’s decisions were based on evidence, tons of it.“
None of his messages show the slightest doubt of Lula's guilt. At that point they didn't have the evidence yet; he was telling the prosecutor where to look for it. And during the trial he seemed more worried about how to convince the public Lula was guilty, than considering whether he actually was.
”Now if someone said you discussed some business matter with them 3 years ago, you might not remember ‘n would not be able to deny it.”
I'm sure I would. I might not remember exactly what I said, but I'd know whether I talked about it or not. And I'd know if the words reported didn't sound like me. I remembered what you and Gollum said about Heleno, enough to know he was full of shit even before you replied. But knowing what you would or would not have said is kind of the point. Moro *would* have said those things, and they sure as hell seem inappropriate to me. Whether Greenwald can prove their authenticity is another question.
Re the Russia visit, did you know Dilma visited the UK last year?
http://blog.gdi.manchester.ac.uk/former-brazilian-president-visits-global-development-institute/
She also met Corbyn. I didn't know about it until now; I suspect the Russia visit, like the UK one, wasn't so much secret as that the press wasn't interested - until someone had the bright idea to tie it to the hacking.
Who is investigating Greenwald's claims? Is it the police under the control of Moro, by any chance?
”In the early morning of July 6, 2005, troops of the UN Stabilization Mission in Haiti (MINUSTAH), commanded by the Brazilian army, conducted a “pacification” operation in the largest slum in the Haitian capital, Port-au-Prince, known as Cité Soleil. According to witnesses, some 300 heavily armed men invaded the neighborhood and murdered 63 people, leaving another 30 wounded. At the time, the commander of the MINUSTAH was the Brazilian general Augusto Heleno
Jun 24th, 2019 - 12:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0A source linked to the Ministry of Defense confirmed to Brasil de Fato that the Brazilian government had received a request from the UN to replace the command of troops in Haiti, which was done days later, when general Urano da Teixeira da Matta Bacellar took office.
https://www.brasildefato.com.br/2019/03/19/ghosts-of-massacre-in-haiti-haunt-bolsonaro-government-generals
I guess the UN considered him a loose cannon.
@DemonTree
Jun 24th, 2019 - 01:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Against a stark contrast with the American style, the Brazilian “style” encourages, supports & elects the crooks!
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Hq04aHbVUUQ/S7HqLjU13aI/AAAAAAAAMpM/Z75956goR9Q/s1600/charges.jpg
DT
Jun 24th, 2019 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“To discuss which cases should pursue, basis of whether could be prosecuted before the presidential election, and to plan how to make the suspect look bad in the press?”
B4 Dilma's election, 2014 ? she wasn't involved. What did the press say ?
Don't know whether you don't pay attention to what I've said dozens of times, or whether you're catching “Gollumitis” - disease whereby the brain is guided by leftist ideology, ignores the truth whenever it does not favor Lula.
Gollum's truths are based on left-wing bloggers' opinions 'n left-wing sites, 'n whom 'he' considers experts...if he disagrees with you, you ARE a liar...quite frankly, I don't need that kind of shit...so afaic, he can fcuk himself.
“None of his messages show the slightest doubt of Lula's guilt.”...'his messages' ? Ah, you have decided they are all authentic ? based on wishful thinking ? The evidence - of Lula's involvement in a corruption scheme - appeared in 2014, during Dilma's campaign, and when the last thing on Lula's mind was to run again.
The authenticity of the conversations is doubtful, the chance of forged phrases inserted into the texts, is very great...to me , the idea behind it is “we can't prove anything, but as long as shit's flying, we're obstructing govt, great”.
“but I'd know whether I talked about it or not”...right, you might remember vaguely, but you'd know what didn't say...based on your own character 'n line of thinking...now, if you tell one lie to cover another, then it's likely you'll contradict yrself. If Moro was talking about legal procedures with prosecutors, what is so strange about that ? but he'd know damned well if he'd done anything illegal...if the case.
If Greenwald can't prove their authenticity, he should be prosecuted.
Yes, I know Dilma visited the UK 1 year ago...'n other countries too well...all divulged b4, during 'n after. Not saying the Russia visit was abt hacking, but to talk abt trade deals, cooperation, is bs.
Federal Police ; yes.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jun 24th, 2019 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“If he disagrees with you, you ARE a liar” because I provide the citations that prove you are like the following.
http://en.mercopress.com/2018/04/04/brazil-s-conundrum-army-chief-twits-good-citizens-repudiate-impunity-and-respect-the-constitution/comments#comment486481
Theres no doubt as to what you are as your condemned out of your own mouth.
JB “Your insistence that I'm a fascist”
Brazil's corruption scandals reach Lula da Silva: ...
12 Jack Bauer; “..'Military dictatorship', ..history is showing,.. that it was good for Brazil
50 Jack Bauer; “Military taking over again, ….. they did it to prevent Brazil from being handed over to the communists. ... the Military , I hope, would be there again to save Brazil
Brazil remembers the 50th anniversary of the coupe…
http://en. mercopress.com/2017/07/12/brazil-former-president-lula-da-silva-found-guilty-of-corruption/comments#comment470714
http://en. mercopress.com/2017/07/20/ex-brazilian-president-assets-and-bank-accounts-frozen/comments#comment471145
http://en. mercopress.com/2018/03/20/lula-begins-tour-of-south-brazil-and-meets-mujica-but-it-was-a-bad-day-for-both-leaders/comments#comment485779
http://en. mercopress.com/2018/11/22/brazil-s-secret-dealings-to-contract-cuban-physicians-to-work-in-the-more-doctors-program/comments#comment495051
@JB
Jun 24th, 2019 - 08:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, before the latest election, when Moro eg leaked wiretaps to the press. Now his own messages have been leaked...
Yeah, I think they're genuine, but we'll know more with time. I can't trust any investigation the 'accused' is in control of, though, for obvious reasons. Prosecuting corruption is important and necessary, but does it give the judges and police too much power?
If the evidence appeared in 2014, why was Lula's trial not until 2017? Because the evidence back then was only enough for suspicion. But you were already sure he was guilty, and IMO the messages show Moro was too. Doesn't matter what you thought, but how could Moro look at the evidence with fresh eyes and an open mind, as was needed to give Lula a fair trial?
If there's anything illegal in there, Moro should know whether he said it or not, for the reasons you gave. Saying it's not illegal and also might be fake is a nice way to cover his bases.
“If Greenwald can't prove their authenticity, he should be prosecuted.”
No, that would limit the freedom of the press. The public has a right to know if (*if*) judges are corrupt, if politicians are hiding money in offshore accounts (Panama Papers), about the MPs expenses scandal here in the UK. I don't think any of these had absolute proof, but newspapers published them anyway. Greenwald should only get in trouble if he knew, or had good reason to believe, that the extracts were fake.
And forget Gollum. I'm not changing my opinion based on his, whether he agrees or disagrees.
“Yes, I know Dilma visited the UK 1 year ago...'n other countries too well”
Oh, okay. I couldn't find a single newspaper report of it in the UK, not even an obscure paragraph. Didn't think the Brazilian press would be quite that quiet, but seemed like it might be something you could easily miss. I certainly don't keep track of the doings of our ex-PMs; guess Dilma still has more prominence in Brazil than I thought. What other countries has she visited this year?
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jun 24th, 2019 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“He also believes the Falklands are British” which I have patently proved. If I hadn't you would have provided the contrary evidence. This fact tells the whole lack of truth in your claim. But, keep sucking it seems the only attribute you have.
LOL. My 'claim' was that you are not *always* wrong. But hey, if you want to insist you are then feel free. Dimwit.
Jun 24th, 2019 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Jack Bauer / @DemonTree / @Terence Hill
Jun 25th, 2019 - 01:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0No matter who your Favourite Crooks are; it's difficult to believe/imagine that Lullu/PT is innocent while the other crooks are not interested in milking the country!
BH
Jun 25th, 2019 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“It's difficult to believe/imagine” I'm sure it is when you ignore all the evidentiary requirements, a bit like trying to read book in the dark.
@DT
Jun 25th, 2019 - 05:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“No, before the latest election, when Moro eg leaked wiretaps to the press. Now his own messages have been leaked...”
You mean Bolsonaro x Haddad ? What did Moro leak ? or are you referring to the Intercept's allegations, the authenticity of which is unproven / doubtful. But if you think they are genuine, yr biz.
“If the evidence appeared in 2014, why was Lula's trial not until 2017? Because the evidence back then was only enough for suspicion. But you were already sure he was guilty”
Some time ago, you questioned why the time between the Lula's becoming a defendant and being tried/convicted was so short...'n I explained it was because in the lower courts things moved relatively fast....now you're questioning why it took 3 years ? make up yr mind.
The evidence had to be analyzed, tied together to complete the jigsaw puzzle...what's your point ? what prosecutor presents his case to a judge before he feels it's solid ?
What “I” thought is irrelevant to the case...and “you” are just speculating about Moro...again.
The evidence speaks for itself...as posted a looong time ago...and am not going to repeat it. If the evidence were not proof, or was weak, and Moro's conviction was illegal, the TRF-4 would have overturned it, based on your belief that there's “no proof”.
”No, that would limit the freedom of the press. The public has a right to know if (*if*) judges are corrupt“...definitely....but first, show the authenticity of such accusations, o'wise they are worthless, and 2nd, the public has the right to ”correct” information. A journalist who publishes something as true, without even (allegedly) knowing the source, is irresponsible.
In 2018 she visited Arg, USA, Germany, Portugal, Cuba...to bad-mouth Brazil. In 2019, Arg, Spain, USA 'n her secret visit to Russia....on 4th 'n 5th June....just a 'casual' visit, only days before the GG leaks. When they returned they said nothing abt it, 'n we only found out because the Russians divulged it. Sh*t !
@JB
Jun 25th, 2019 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, Bolsonaro and Haddad. Moro leaked calls between Dilma and Lula, and others, seemingly to turn public opinion against Lula. We discussed it before.
Lula's trial only seemed quick compared to similar cases. And yes, the prosecutor should not present his case until it's solid. I guess my point is that it appears Moro did not wait for the trial, or a solid case, to decide that Lula was guilty. It already appeared from his actions that he was pursuing Lula, which is the prosecutors job, and highly improper for the judge in the case. The leaks just confirm it.
As for the TRF-4, I don't know if they are honest or not. One of them said the case looked solid before seeing the evidence, which isn't encouraging.
“but first, show the authenticity of such accusations, o'wise they are worthless, and 2nd, the public has the right to ”correct” information.”
I don't think journalists knew who supplied the Panama papers when they first appeared. Presume they did some digging to try and establish their authenticity before publishing them, but they didn't know for sure. They can be sued for libel if they publish something and can't prove it's true, though.
I still can't find out much about Dilma's visits on google. Can't tell how much publicity there was or wasn't when I can't find anything. Also, Brazilian news sites are terrible for paywalls. But “to bad mouth Brazil” - pointing out corruption or increasing deforestation could also be seen that way, not to mention B's charming carnival video. People should be able to point out problems in their country, no?
@DT / @JB
Jun 26th, 2019 - 02:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: Harde-Core Evidence + Concrete-Proofs
They can not only be rigged but can also be interpreted + justified Totally Differently [AND fu*k the Public Opinion]
DT
Jun 26th, 2019 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bolsonaro x Haddad ?...incorrect. Yeah, we did discuss it before - the conversation was leaked end 2014, 'n showed Dilma trying to appoint Lula as her Cabinet Minister in order to give him immunity, as they believed Moro was about to order his arrest. Moro decided to leak it as it was the only way to avoid this political subterfuge.
“Lula's trial only seemed quick compared to similar cases”….similar cases ? don’t make me laugh…all 1st lower court cases in the L J took even less time than Lula’s, which took 3 years only because of the amount of evidence to be analyzed.
“Moro did not wait for the trial, or a solid case, to decide that Lula was guilty” (???) Moro convicted Lula in July 2017, almost 3 years after he became a ‘person of interest’; he appealed, 'n the conviction was confirmed in Jan 2018 (TRF-4)….more appeals, eventually jailed April 2018…so who rushed things or didn’t have a solid case ? The prosecutors were following the clues and the money trail, not persuing Lula….dozens of others, of other parties, 'n executives are also in jail…so why was “Lula” the “only one persecuted”, in yr opinion ?
Is yr only defense to accuse the TRF-4 judges ? “One of them said the case looked solid before seeing the evidence”…Ah yeah ? who ? or is that fm the unauthenticated GG leaks ? Where’re you getting yr misinfo from ?
Re Panama papers, there were written records of transfers etc…”proof”, which no one denied. Totally different to Lula’s case, but what has it got to do with the GG leaks ? If I were GG I’d be concerned.
Don’t worry about Dilma…her visits / bad-mouthing Brazil were divulged in the news. Her main point was to say there had been a coup against her, 'n claim she’d been illegally impeached. The proof says otherwise.
As to her “pointing out corruption”, then how about starting w/ the mensalão , 'n then the PB scandal ? under whose governments did those happen ? Don't know where you're getting your news from, but it's “slightly” biased.
@JB
Jun 26th, 2019 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It was 2016, and leaking that particular conversation, although IIRC illegal, was understandable. Not so much the others, which served no public interest but only embarrassed Lula before his trial.
“Moro convicted Lula in July 2017, almost 3 years after he became a ‘person of interest’”
Sure, but his actions before then indicated he already thought Lula was guilty. Eg the wiretaps mentioned above.
““One of them said the case looked solid before seeing the evidence”…Ah yeah ? who ?”
https://oglobo.globo.com/brasil/triplex-sentenca-de-moro-tecnicamente-irrepreensivel-diz-presidente-do-trf-4-21675452
Only pro-Lula websites published anything about this in English, so I hunted out this less biased source.
“If I were GG I’d be concerned.”
He probably is, about reprisals. Didn't you say Lula tried to have a foreign journalist thrown out of the country? Might B do the same?
Re Dilma, she was impeached for political reasons - a clear abuse of the process - and her Vice-President did a complete 180 on the policies they were elected on. It may all have been legal but it certainly wasn't moral. Fair enough to complain about it.
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