MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina with a multi-party delegation to claim the Falklands at the C24 meeting
It's an election year in Argentina so a pluralistic delegation will be travelling to New York to make the country's annual claim over the Falkland Islands sovereignty before the United Nations Decolonization Committee, next Tuesday, according to reports in the Buenos Aires media. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rules(*terribly written I know. ...You'll figure it out!)
Jun 22nd, 2019 - 12:58 pm - Link - Report abuse -11~
The denial, scorn and begrudgement that fills the Islander’s one sided view of Argentina’s issue with the Overseas Territory, is doing nothing constructive in regards to that, but blocking a broader and humanly realistic view of Argentina's people and their country, plus denying themselves any interpretation of its history to the islands, rendering themselves effectively impotent in any sort of interesting discussion, other than those that stew in the ignorance of reinventing different was of saying “No, I don’t care to know, I don’t care about you, I don’t have to care, I will only say no. Plus we are, we this and we that”.
Behind this refusal to opening its eyes to world intelligent objectivity, comes the inability to develop love for the country-hood of the planet's nations and their peoples, all conducted by the reins of those few England bonded individuals who in the most fascist, despotic to Argentina’s political conversation, and contemptuous manner straddle the financial industrial link between the Islanders and London. On the other hand, the true Kelper heart is in those who would take a second look at things, seeing themselves with more confidence of self, owning their own feet in peat sort of say, not afraid of an independent autonomy which naturally and efficiently configured itself to the logical support and sustenance where proportion and need required yet without an agenda to Argentina, while keeping its bonds to Britain. Why? Because they feel in their hearts that natural grip on the steering wheel of their destiny. Yet those who want the money and the power connection to Britain and who revel in their social status on the islands, and those who grab on to those, won’t let their free heart flourish nor much less speak freely without the constraints of prejudices and a need to matter fostered by animosity, reminded to them daily.
Reference to the Committee by Argentina:
Jun 22nd, 2019 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse +7Argentinean politicians often make great mileage out of the UK being in breach of numerous UN resolutions by stating such as, 'the UK and Argentina have a historic opportunity to set an example to the world by resolving this dispute by peaceful and diplomatic means, as called for by as many as 40 UN resolutions since 1965.' This statement seems impressive but the fact is the vast number of these resolutions has come from the UN Decolonisation Committee. The Decolonisation Committee is a subsidiary body of the United Nations General Assembly, it has NO decision-making powers. Any resolutions that it passes have no legal significance and are irrelevant unless they are endorsed by the United Nations General Assembly. The last UN resolution that was specific to the Falkland Islands was UN Resolution 43/25 from 17th November 1988. That resolution, 'Reiterated its request to the governments of Argentina and the UK to initiate negotiations with a view to finding the means to resolve peacefully and definitively the pending problems between both countries, including all aspects of the Falkland Islands, in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.'
No mention was made to ANY sovereignty negotiations. In this respect, the UK/Falklands made agreements with the Argentine government in respect of hydrocarbons exploration and fisheries control. Both agreements were terminated by Argentina.
You do spout some crap Trimonde. Mostly unintelligible crap at that.
Jun 22nd, 2019 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse +10Argentina's due a Presidential election. From this point forth, everything is for domestic consumption.
The UN does not care. It was agreed in 1989/90 that nothing went past the Fourth Committee to the General Assembly. An agreement that, if not actually secret has never been published. Unless it is time limited in some way, the status quo is now the norm.
Argentina gets to shout at the C24 and, somewhat less, at the Fourth. Then the matter is filed sine die. A sysphean motion where the same repeats every year without resolution or end.
To date there is no indication that 2019 will be any different.
Trimonde
Jun 22nd, 2019 - 02:18 pm - Link - Report abuse +8“The Argentine delegation will demand the resumption of sovereignty discussions” “That fills the Islander’s one sided view of Argentina’s issue”
Self-Determination Defined
UN Charter
2. To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples,
55. With a view to the creation ..and self-determination of peoples,
56. All Members pledge themselves ...for the achievement of the purposes set forth in Article 55.
73. Members of the United Nations which have or assume responsibilities for ..peoples have not yet attained .. self-government recognize the principle ..b. to develop self-government, ...“
103. In the event of a conflict between the obligations of the Members of the United Nations under the present Charter and their obligations under any other international agreement, their obligations under the present Charter shall prevail.
Whereas, Argentina’s then Minister for Foreign Affairs and Worship Jorge Faurie told the (C24)committee in 2018
“He noted that no United Nations resolution incorporated the principle of self-determination as a criterion in the territory’s decolonisation process and that application of that principle would require the existence of a people subjected to foreign domination.”
https://www.indepthnews.net/index.php/global-governance/un-insider/1959-argentina-reiterates-validity-of-claims-to-falklands-malvinas-islands
Note, UN resolutions cannot negate UN Charter articles.
Yup- expect the usual diatribe from nations whose spokespersons- who have not and never have any intention on voting for the principles of the UN Charter, but more for who they want to be chums with.
Jun 22nd, 2019 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse +8Can anyone list the formal UN Security Council resolutions that UK has totally ignored?
and those that Argentina has totally ignored?
Terrence Hill. The “Islanders” cannot be included in this rationale. The Islanders were brought to the islands with the specific plan of British expansionism, and in order to confront the Argentine dispute. The sequence of events alone proves that. They are not interested in independence. They act as British citizens. The United Nations, like the name says it, is a union of nations. Of equal nations, the group of which defines in equality all the Earth's peoples therein contained. It is not a union of nations and overseas territories faking autonomy under another government. Clever trick that it may be, the same as Britain is doing with Gibraltar, tensions, conflicts, irresoluteness, rifts, omissions, lingering doldrums, mismatches and non applicable resolutions arise at the United Nations or at the EU, their hypocrisy shining the light on British manipulative strategies.
Jun 22nd, 2019 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse -9Trimonde- you would find that if we Islanders were faced with a choice:
Jun 22nd, 2019 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse +7Become Argentine or become Independent- guaranteed unanimously by the UN Security Council and backed by a defence guarantee from all members - that 99.8% at least would vote for Independnce.
Trimonde
Jun 22nd, 2019 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse +7“The “Islanders” cannot be included in this rationale”
The UN Charter is explicit, that they must be considered.
“They are not interested in independence.” So what, it's not a compellable condition.
“The Islanders were brought to ...” Perhaps, but such were the legalities at that time. Even if you were able to set the conditions of Charter aside. It was implemented in 1945 and cannot be applied retroactively to 1833.
“The rule of the intertemporal law still insists that an act must be characterized in accordance with the law in force at the time it was done, or closely on the next occasion”
The Acquisition of Territory in International LawBy Robert Yewdall Jennings 1963
Robert Yewdall Jennings (19 October 1913 – 4 August 2004) was Professor of International Law at Cambridge University from 1955 to 1982 and a Judge of the International Court of Justice from 1982. He also served as the President of the ICJ between 1991 and 1994 and resigned from the Court on 10 July 1995.
Can your homeland stay the way it is now, if that is what the people want?
Jun 22nd, 2019 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse +6The mandate of the 24 (Decolonization Committee) is based on the principle that the result of the decolonization process would be one of the three mentioned options (free association, integration with an independent State or independence). However, in 1970, a legal committee of the General Assembly adopted a declaration in which it stated that, in addition to these three options, the emergence into any other political status, as long as it is freely determined by a people, can also be considered a way of implementing the right to self-determination by that people. (Questions & Answers on Decolonization, Self-Determination Institute of South Africa, May 2013).
Free Expression of the People Concerned
It is important to note that declarations base the exercise of the right to self-determination on the free will of the people concerned. This interpretation of the right to self-determination requires a free and genuine expression of the will of the peoples concerned lies at the heart of the right to self-determination. This is how the right to self-determination is interpreted by the International Courts of Justice when in its Advisory Opinion on the Western Sahara , expressly provides that self-determination must be understood as 'the need to pay regard to the freely expressed will of peoples.' (International Law & Governance of Natural Resources in Post Conflict Situations, Dam-De Jong., Cambridge Studies in International Law, 2015, p73).
The United Nations is wrong Terrence. It's that simple. People are not thinking about this case as different or unique, though it has been called already a “Special case”, no one has the guts to stand up to Britain and the U.S about this unmistakable error. The logic in the principals and values that refer to articles and mandates pertinent decolonization were all created for cases of countries that were perhaps not full fledged modern nations, but whose people's territories were occupied by a Colonial power and thus needed support in their representation. Situations where there was a previously established culture and people run over by a different one. You are not understanding why I make the point of the Islanders being British migrants brought to the islands. This was never a colony. Though Britain calls it whatever it calls it, and adventures to invent administrative variations meant to endow these people with a definition that rings of sovereign values, for obvious expansionist reasons, it cannot hide the fact that they and their island “government of cards” are but fulfilling Her majesties aim for the country whose capital is London. The “administrative nation” cannot be Britain, as Britain was quick to enlist in 1946, as if it were a case of Colonialism. That is how Britain gets its anticipated strategy to work. Unfortunately it's cheating ploy is nearly transparent, and the reason why it rushed the Islanders with a war and subsequent industrialization, financial rewards etc. We see the trick... It is the United Nations, being a construct of Britain and the countries of the League of Nations that has been made impaired from articulating the proper logic and has been funneled into the definitions established for other cases. Hard to believe? ... My boy, cheating, robbing, lying and waste are the Human civilization's greatest productions.
Jun 22nd, 2019 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse -8Trimonde
Jun 22nd, 2019 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse +4“The United Nations is wrong” Then by the same token so is the Decolonization Committee. So what are you blathering about if there's nothing to be said? Why don't get your head out of your ass. It is not a situation that is emendable to political solution. I have shown you that it is governed by international law, that is binding on both countries, and yours or anyone else's whinging is going to have any effect. Simply because Argentina has no basis for a legal claim.
The “administrative nation” cannot be Britain, as Britain was quick to enlist itself in 1946 at the United Nations, as if it were a case of Colonialism. The case should have simple always been a case of Argentine territory usurped or disputed by Britain at the U.N., since Britain as well as the United States were the first ones to use force on the islands against Argentina, who build its settlement when the Islands were once more vacant yet still claimed by both Spain and Britain, Argentina after independence from Spain establishes its own continuity etc etc. However this other way is how Britain gets its anticipated strategy to work.
Jun 22nd, 2019 - 07:38 pm - Link - Report abuse -6Unfortunately its cheating ploy is nearly transparent, and the reason why it rushed the Islanders with a war and subsequent industrialization, financial rewards etc. We see the trick. They do the same thing with Gibraltar. Same as Israel was planning to do with its settlements in the occupied territories. Except now with Trump in the Presidency, Netanyahu feels he was given “pass go card straight to Park Avenue” and is going as far as stealing the Golan Hights from Syria. It's all basically armed robbery by the countries with the biggest guns.
As for the United Nations, being a construct by Britain and the countries of the League of Nations, it has been made impaired from articulating the proper logic and has been funneled into the definitions established for other cases. Hard to believe? ... My boy, cheating, robbing, lying and waste are Human civilization's greatest productions.”
Trimonde
Jun 22nd, 2019 - 08:27 pm - Link - Report abuse +4“The “administrative nation” cannot be Britain,”
“Margaret Thatcher ... she astutely began her speech by affirming her intention to restore the British administration of the Falklands” A leader at war : Margaret Thatcher and the Falklands crisis of 1982
Domenico Maria Bruni. Remember that little event that the UK won and restored the status quo. Losers don't get any say, to the winner the spoils.
The UN News Centre
UN Decoded: Non-Self-Governing Territories (NSGTs)
...The UN monitors progress towards self-determination in the Territories..., of which there are currently 17: ... Falkland Islands (Malvinas)
http://www.un.org/apps/news/infocus/UNdecoded/UNdecoded.asp?NewsID=1320&sID=48
I have no idea what you're trying to say, besides the fact that it does not address any my central points. You're like a crazy person who keeps spewing whatever he wants to go on about regardless of what the other person is saying. ... Indeed, kind of like G.Britain as well
Jun 22nd, 2019 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse -5for that matter :-)
Trimonde
Jun 22nd, 2019 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse +4“Britain was quick to enlist itself in 1946 at the United Nations, as if it were a case of Colonialism.”
They did what they were required to by the UN. You don't get to disregard what is disagreeable to you. Moreover, “There is no obligation in general international law to settle disputes”.
Principles of Public International Law, third edition, 1979 by Ian Brownlie
Former UN Secretary General Boutros Boutros Ghali told the Committee of 24 on its 30th anniversary:
”…The general assembly has repeatedly reaffirmed ... the exercise of the inalienable right to self-determination.”
“The fact that it does not address any my central points” You make these personal opinions that have no basis in fact or in law. “You're like a..” You have spouted unsupportable and unstainable arguments based solely on your own emotionalism. I am simply showing why they cannot stand, based on my own collected relevant law and history. I'm sorry your indoctrination doesn't quite make it. But, thats the way cookie crumbles. Rationalism is a bitch, I have heard all the spurious arguments over years, and refuted them all.
Argentines are certainly persistent. Once they decide they want to have a shit in your living room they never give up trying.
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 02:11 am - Link - Report abuse +2More rambling nonsense from Trimonde.
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 04:35 am - Link - Report abuse +7Britain did not form a colony in 1841 to see off claims by Argentina, for the simple reason that Britain considered the matter closed and did not give a damn about what Argentina thought. Not dissimilar to today in fact.
In 1946 Britain, in accordance with a UN request, submitted a list of territories that it considered to be colonies. All members were asked to provide such a list. Some did. Some - like Argentina (Patagonia) - did not. It was the UN's decision to identify them as Non-Self-Governing Territories (NSGTs) and their colonizers as Administrative Powers. Britain did not choose that title for itself. The Administrative Powers have obligations under the UN Charter and GA resolutions. Some of those obligations are met by all, some by none. The USA, for example, no longer replies to the UN with regard to its NSGTs.
Britain is one member of the UN. One of 197 members. Since 1988, not a single member of the UN - including Argentina - has asked for the Falklands to be raised before the General Assembly. Not one. Despite the issue being automatically placed on the GA's provisional agenda every year.
Go figure.
It's really a terrible sad thing for the world today that the most empowered social cultures at the moment, are lead by two countries who only care about their own ransacking supremacy and disparaging domination over others, instead an equality of freedom happiness and fulfillment for all nations. For a short few decades they nearly had us going with their false pretenses, and good sounding words principals and values. But now the farce has been unmasked and we see the many instruments of those who are keeping the world oppressed with their blackmailing fear and depredatory trickery
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 08:16 am - Link - Report abuse -5Trimonde
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 08:47 am - Link - Report abuse +4''Decolonization is a process. The right to self-determination is one of the fundamental principles of international law that was well established during the decolonization movement after the Second World War. The paramount importance of the principle of self-determination is reflected in its erga omnes character in the sense that it not only confers a right on the peoples of all non-self-governing territories to self-determination, but also imposes an obligation on all States to see to it that this right is fully respected.''
(Declaration of Vice President Xue, pg 4, para 19, Legal Consequences of the Separation of the Chagos Archipelago from Mauritious in 1965, Advisory Opinion, 25 Feb 2019).
Question: Do you think that Vice President Xue is aware of the meaning of ALL?
And
Is Argentina complying with its obligations to respect the Falkland Islanders right to self-determination?
@Trimonde
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 09:31 am - Link - Report abuse +3“are lead by two countries who only care about their own ransacking supremacy and disparaging domination over others, instead an equality of freedom happiness and fulfillment for all nations.”
Who would you prefer to lead? Russia is worse than America for interfering with and threatening its neighbours, besides being vastly less free and equal. It's currently busy fighting a war in the Middle East, as well as still involved in Ukraine. China doesn't even pretend to care about any of those things, it's a dictatorship with no freedom for anyone. It is currently lending money to countries in Africa in order to build infrastructure projects. If the country can't pay back the money, China gets to keep the project. They also ship in their own workers, so it doesn't even create jobs for the locals. Very benevolent, right?
What on this Earth has made you SO THICK Brit Bob??
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 09:38 am - Link - Report abuse -4The people living on the Islands ARE NOT A SEPARATE PEOPLE. They are British citizens, even when they were not full citizens, just like I am an Argentine without being born in Argentina, so were they always going to be faithful to their country. Moreover Britain consciously made sure they never had much contact or exchange with Argentina to preserve this condition. The government on the Islands was not imposed on them by an administrating or colonial foreign power. They are not “Self-Governing” BECAUSE THEY ARE PART OF THE UK AND HER MAJESTY'S SUBJECTS! Just like people living in Manchester or London are! The people of the archipelago of Chagos were THEIR OWN PEOPLE before they ever met a British person, whereas the people on the Malvinas ARE BRITISH PEOPLE brought to the Islands entirely by London's doing for the specific purpose of standing off against the Argentine territorial claim ! No comparison whatsoever to the cases that have given motive and rise to the charters of decolonization at the U.N. So quit trying to “make it sound good” IT IS A LIE.
Britain invented “autonomous overseas territories” following the colonial era precisely because after the wars of independence they had to evolve politically their greed for other territories in a way that seemed politically viable given the new principals that were starting to change the world. THEY - ARE - CHEATING . Same as in Gibraltar. Tomorrow they could try for Cyprus the same way. YOU have merely become well versed in the logistical political logic Britain is having everyone believe and repeat after them. SUCKER!! You like all your compatriots and English speaking public in general have all successfully been fired up with fascistic nationalism precisely so you become a nation wide army of bulls**t proliferation in the world, taking advantage of the fact that your language has got more influence in international relations than any other language. SEETHEWORLD
Some Mercopress permanent bloggers seem to ignore which are the organs charged to interpret and apply the UN Charter in the field of decolonization:. Let speak the ICJ in its 2019 Chagos Advisory Opinion, paragraph 167: ”In the Court’s view, by inviting the United Kingdom to comply with its international obligations in conducting the process of decolonization of Mauritius, the General Assembly acted within the framework of the Charter and within the scope of the functions assigned to it to oversee the application of the right to self-determination. The General Assembly assumed those functions in order to supervise the implementation of obligations incumbent upon administering Powers under the Charter. It thus established a special committee tasked with examining the factors that would enable it to decide “whether any territory is or is not a territory whose people have not yet attained a full measure of self-government” (resolution 334 (IV) of 2 December 1949). It has been the Assembly’s consistent practice to adopt resolutions to pronounce on the specific situation of any non-self-governing territory. Thus, immediately after the adoption of resolution 1514 (XV), it established the Committee of Twenty-Four tasked with monitoring the implementation of that resolution and making suggestions and recommendations thereon (resolution1654(XVI) of 27 November 1961). The General Assembly also monitors the means by which the free and genuine will of the people of a non-self-governing territory is expressed, including the formulation of questions submitted for popular consultation”.
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 10:31 am - Link - Report abuse -8@Trimonde
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 11:04 am - Link - Report abuse +4“The people living on the Islands ARE NOT A SEPARATE PEOPLE. They are British citizens”
So were citizens of the 13 colonies in America. Turns out they weren't always going to be faithful to their country. 200 years ago, the people living in the United Provinces were Spanish citizens. Now not only are they different, but Spanish America split into many different countries, all with their own character. There are people descended from natives in Argentina today, but it was the settlers from Spain who declared and fought for independence in the early eighteen-hundreds.
Incidentally, do you consider France is 'cheating' by declaring French Guiana a department of France, along with several of its other former colonies?
Trimonde
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse +4“The people living on the Islands ARE NOT A SEPARATE PEOPLE. They are British citizens” So what? The Islanders and and the UK have complied with every requirement of the UN Charter.
On the other hand Argentina since its inception. As the US chargé d'affaires Francis Baylies wrote about Argentina in 1832 “...The revolutions of these people are seditious; their knowledge. chicanery and trickery; their patriotism, their liberty, a farce... ” Baylies held that the US should sign no treaty ...for we would abide by it, and they would consider the violation no greater offense than a lie told by a schoolboy...”
http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/argentina/rosas.pdf
You signed a peace treaty, which was acknowledged as such in both the Argentine and the UK, in their own archives, the Convention of Settlement, 1850. This is how legal scholars of the day and therefore nations viewed the effects of such a peace treaty to wit:
Laws Of War By H. W. Halleck, 1866, Chapter Xxxiv, Treaties Of Peace.
§ 12. Principle of uti possidetes. A treaty of peace leaves every thing in the state in which it finds it, unless there be some express stipulations to the contrary. The existing state of possession is maintained, except so far as altered by the terms of the treaty. If nothing be said about the conquered country or places, they remain with the possessor, and his title cannot afterward be called in question. ... ...Treaties of peace, made by the competent authorities of such governments, are obligatory upon the whole nation, and, consequently, upon all succeeding governments, whatever may be their character.
Your own congressional archives show two Presidents and a Vice stating their is no dispute with any other nation.
So its a done deal, just as individuals are bound by contracts they sign, so are nations.
Argentina may operate under the sway of viveza criolla, the rest of the world does not.
Also Trimonde, according to Think there were good relations between the Falklands and Patagonia before the war, with some families having farms in both places. There were immigrants from the UK in Argentina, so this shouldn't be too surprising.
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Trimonde
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse +4The UNESCO international meeting of experts for the elucidation of the concepts of rights of people met in 1989 and discussed titleholders of the right to self-determination. They referred to Webster’s definition of ‘people’ as described as, ‘the entire body of persons who constitute a community or other group by virtue of common culture, religion or the like.’ They continued, ‘A more detailed description was developed in 1989 specifically for the purpose of identifying the holders of the right to self-determination by UNESCO’ and referred to the Kirby definition.’
The Kirby definition identifies ‘a people’ as: a group of individual human beings who enjoy some or all of the following features: a) Common historical tradition b) Racial or ethnic identity c) Cultural homogeneity d) Linguistic unity) Religious or ideological affinity f) Territorial connection g) Common economic life.
The UNESCO expert also said, ‘the group must have the will to be identified as a people or the consciousness of being a people. They must be a certain number which need not be large.’(International Meeting of Experts, UNESCO, Paris, 27-30 Nov 1989, para 22).
Another definition of what constitutes ‘a people’ was provided by Gudelevicûitê. After interpreting the principle of self-determination, Gudelevicûitê identified that the only way to prevent discrimination between different groups of people is to define ‘a people’ as the whole population of a particular territorial unit and came up with the following definition, that under the present international law ‘a people’ means: a) entire population of an independent state, governed in a way representing the whole population; b) entire population of a non-self-governing territory; c) entire population of a particular occupied territorial unit living under foreign military occupation; d) entire unrepresented part of population of a particular territorial unit.
Marcelo Kohen
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse +4“Seem to ignore which are the organs charged to interpret and apply the UN Charter in the field of decolonization:” Decolonisation is a mere political term
”In the context of decolonisation, the 'political' moment in international law is repeated several times over. ... begins in 1960 with the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples, an initiative taken by the Third World at the United Nations General Assembly (GA Res. 1514).” https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sundhya_Pahuja/publication/322381803_Decolonization_and_the_eventness_of_international_law/links/5a56be0e45851547b1bf25db/Decolonization-and-the-eventness-of-international-law.pdf
Which, while a worthy goal, is merely an advisement, and not international law.
You to ignore this BS when you represented Serbia and lost to Kosovo, your sophistry is noted. ICJ rulings top any organs ones.
...opinion on Kosovo's declaration ...
”is that the right of self-determination, which the ICJ found to be jus cogens in the East Timor case, is a right of all peoples, not only of those in a colonial context. ... “
Western Sahara; “The validity of the principle of self-determination, defined as the need to pay regard to the freely expressed will of peoples, ...the subsequent development of international law in regard to non-self-governing territories, as enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, made the principle of self-determination applicable to all of them”
paragraph 80 of the ICJ Kosovo Advisory Opinion that states, 'the scope for the principle for territorial integrity is limited to the relationship between individual States and does not impinge on the right to self-determination.
The Case Concerning East Timor and Self-determination
”By virtue of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of people ...”
The United Nations, Self-Determination and The Namibia Opinions ...etc.
Anti inflammatory Britishness attacks worldwide I see ,not just at home . Sorry for your troubles
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 01:59 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Trimonde
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 02:04 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Non-Self-Governing Territory – Populations
Para 147 of the Chagos ruling stated – In the Court’s view, it follows that the legal regime of non-self-governing territories, as set out in Chapter XI of the Charter, was based on the progressive development of their institutions so to lead the populations concerned to exercise their right to self-determination. (Legal Consequences of the Separation of the Chagos Archipelago from Mauritius in 1965, ICJ Advisory Opinion, 25 Feb 2019, para 147).
There are numerous UN resolutions on decolonisation where the words ‘people’ and ‘population’ are used interchangeably. For example, UNGA resolution 1514 (XV) from 1960 uses the word ‘people’ and UN 2065 (XX) from 16 December 1965 uses ‘population. (UNGA Resolution 1514 (XV) Declaration on Decolonization, and UNGA 2065 (XX) Falkland Islands).
Marcelo Kohen - aka the Photoshop Prof - touchingly and naively still puts some faith in the United Nations Special Committee as an organ with a purpose.
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse +7An organ it may be, but I have news. The C24 is long past its sell-by date and the UN itself is clearly incapable of enforcing any of its, or the ICJ's, theories concerning some world order.
In the Chagos case the ICJ's opinion was advisory as are UN GA Resolutions. Advisory. No obligations to comply or even take notice. Put another way, the theoretical world known as international law can be viewed as the 'King's new clothes' of the legal profession. Everybody gets to see what they wish to see, or what they believe that they ought to see. The reality, however, is that there is nothing there.
On the issues of decolonization, the UN has rendered itself irrelevant. Long overdue to close down the Special Committee and just accept that nothing will change without the permission of the people of the remaining territories.
The whole thing has been something of a dog's dinner since 1946. Allowing the colonizers to identify the colonies? What was that about? In 1946 Argentina actually objected to the Falklands being placed on the list. Fortunately, in 1952, the UN defined the territories in such a way as to clearly identify the Falklanders as a 'people' and as we know, all the people of all the territories have the right of self-determination.
You should try Criminal Law Prof, at least it has its feet in reality.
@Trimonde. I want you to know that I tried very hard to read and comprehend your convoluted, illogical drivel. I wondered whether, by some miracle, someone that classes itself as an argie could write something intelligent. Unfortunately, you failed.
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 03:01 pm - Link - Report abuse +6Here's the bottom line. There is NO UN General Assembly resolution that can override any of the international law that relates. There is NO resolution of any other body that is relevant either. Particularly bodies of which the UK is not a member.
In 1690, Britain discovered and took possession of the Islands as it was entitled to do. Argentina was not a legal entity until 1860. Until then it was, progressively, an invading and occupying power, a Spanish colony, a Spanish colony in rebellion. The Convention of 1850 mentioned no outstanding issues. I think it was in 1863 that an argie vice president informed the Congress that there were no outstanding issues except for argie compensation to be paid to English companies. The 1940s saw Peronist “claims” fostered by Hitler. Pity that Hitler lost and shot himself as an alternative to being brought to justice as a mass murderer and war criminal.
Fast forward to 1982 when argentina illegally attacked, invaded, occupied in the course of attempted theft and war crimes. Refusing to comply with two Security Council resolutions in the process. By virtue of uti possidetis, the Islands returned to British governance as desired by the residents.
The Committee of 24 has no power. No matter how you've loaded the membership.
The British people are pretty tired of pipsqueaks. And our patience with losers like you is just about exhausted. Last time we just gave you a slap on the wrist. Don't make us come back again.
I'll make it simple for you.
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse -9“You are the bad guys”
Your country uses its military power technologies and wealth to create an abusive cycle of dependency against nations in the world, through which it aims to increasingly feed itself in order to continue perpetuating the same. AND you use the proliferation of your language to create a virtuous narrative under which your plundering nation can hide.
You do spout some crap Trimonde. We are the bad guys? What do you think this is.... Hollywood? Time to grow up and smell the roses. We do what we can to further our interests. As does Argentina, and every other sovereign State.
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse +7Bad guys? How old are you? 12?
Trimonde
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse +5Only Argentina tries to bully the Falkland Islanders. Argentina's problem is that 'people' are asking questions about the Malvinas myth. How long will ordinary folk buy into the 'usurpation' and the Falkland islanders not having any basic human rights? Tick tock...
I'm just trying to match your scope of comprehension Lorton.
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse -7.
You know what's interesting about that Brit Bob. That it's only the British who say the islanders “have no human rights” (for whatever reason they try to construct) Argentina has never said that once.
When did the British say that the Islanders have no human rights Trimonde. Love to see your evidence as it is the UK that asserts and protects the Falklanders' rights.
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 05:32 pm - Link - Report abuse +6As for Argentina, you lot continually deny the Islanders rights. And will again next week.
You are very confused.
Trimonde
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse +6“It's only the British who say the islanders “have no human rights” Argentina has never said that once” What a liar, attempting to deny people their most basic 'human right', of 'self-determination
Trimonde
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse +5'The islanders do not exist' 'They are just squatters' - ring any bells?
Equated rights reserved , For they who built it and therefore own site lock stock and barrels of oil ,it's anti British world beating , scavenger's .at least the developing world founders had excuses of ignorance . These equal citizen's rights , even British . Respect everyone ?
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Absolutely clear: 2019 ICJ Advisory Opinion on Chagos, paragraph 158: “The right to self-determination under customary international law does not impose a specific mechanism for its implementation in all instances, as the Court has observed:
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse -4“The validity of the principle of self-determination, defined as the need to pay regard to the freely expressed will of peoples, is not affected by the fact that in certain cases the General Assembly has dispensed with the requirement of consulting the inhabitants of a given territory. Those instances were based either on the consideration that a certain population did not constitute a ‘people’ entitled to self-determination or on the conviction that a consultation was totally unnecessary, in view of special circumstances.” (Western Sahara, Advisory Opinion, I.C.J.Reports1975, p.33, para. 59.) »
Advisory opinion on Kosovo's declaration of independence was made by ICJ on On 22 July 2010,
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse +32. The Right to Self-Determination Within the UN Legal Framework
...Respect for the principle of the self-determination of peoples was first included in UN Charter7 and was later codified in both International Covenants, that on Civil and Political Rights and that on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights.8
The modern meaning of the right to self-determination, as embodied in common Article 1 to both Covenants, consists of the right of all peoples to determine their political status and to freely pursue their economic, social, and cultural
development. ...
6. Concluding Remarks
...Seemingly, in the Court’s view erga omnes obligations with respect to the right to self-determination include the duty to promote, through joint and separate action, realization of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, in accordance with the provisions of the Charter, and to render assistance to the United Nations in carrying out the responsibilities entrusted to it by the Charter regarding its implementation. ...”
Self-Determination through the Lens of the International Court of Justice by Gentian Zyberi
Typical Argentine sophistry when you refer to a case from 1975 but avoid this later one, which defeated your client Serbia.
Terrence Hill, about your quote to UN Charter:
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse -3Article 1 point 2: The UN does not recognize the Malvinas Islands as british sovereign territory, as a nation or as a self determined territory.
55. The same.
56.The same.
73. The islanders do not form a people distinct to those living in the UK and also they live in a territory that is listed as a non self-governing territory. Which means they do not govern themselves and is under a process of decolonization.
103. Totally agree.
It is very interesting that you british fails to convince even the USA that the islands are british, but try harder to convince us argentines that the UN agrees with you by quoting the UN charter. And even more, you linked a webpage where in its first paragraph the UN c24 recalls that the ONLY way to end the “special and particular” colonial situation of the islands was through a peaceful and negotiated settlement of the dispute between Argentina and the United Kingdom concerning sovereignty over the Falkland/Malvinas Islands.
Islander1. Do you want me to list the UN resolutions that UK has totally ignored?, ohhh sorry you want me to list the UN “Security Council” resolutions that UK has totally ignored.
My mistake. So you want me to recall a resolution from a body that UK has veto power that goes against the UK?.
Let me know if you didnt underestood the sarcasm.
Liberato
Jun 23rd, 2019 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse +3UN Charter game set and match, as nothing that occurs at UN can be in contradiction to following articles
2. To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples,
55. With a view to the creation ..and self-determination of peoples,
56. All Members pledge themselves ...for the achievement of the purposes set forth in Article 55.
73. Members of the United Nations which have or assume responsibilities for ..peoples have not yet attained .. self-government recognize the principle ..b. to develop self-government, ...“
103. In the event of a conflict between the obligations of the Members of the United Nations under the present Charter and their obligations under any other international agreement, their obligations under the present Charter shall prevail.
“British fails to convince even the USA that the islands are british” Not true at all.
'As late as 1886 the Secretary of State found it necessary to inform the Argentine Government that as “the resumption of actual occupation of the Falkland Islands by Great Britain in 1833 took place under a claim of title which had been previously asserted and maintained by that Government, it is not seen that the Monroe Doctrine, which has been invoked on the part of the Argentine Republic, has any application to the case. By the terms in which that principle of international conduct was announced, it was expressly excluded from retroactive operation.”
P.60 Sovereignty and the Falkland Islands Crisis D.W. Greig
Terence, dont you thinks its childish to accuse the UN of not complying with UN just becouse you dont agree with them?.
Jun 24th, 2019 - 03:58 am - Link - Report abuse -4Again, for the UN, the islands are a non self-governing territory in the process of decolonization. They are not a nation. They are not selfgoverning nor self-determined and more important, they are not a People distinct to those living in the UK.
And we are not talking about one territory. The UK have other nine colonies under the UN process of decolonization.
As late as 1886...????. Really? Who was the Secretary of State back then?.
Link of US State Department Official position regarding the Malvinas Islands:
https://2009-2017.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2012/01/182294.htm
Kohen still selectively repeating the Western Sahara case like a mantra without having any instances of what the ICJ was referring to? And ignoring the same judges making plain that all the peoples of ALL the NSGTs had the right of self-determination. Confirmed by the Chagos AO which, with its emphasis on the consultation of the people clearly favours the Falklanders. Western Sahara was 1975 and that line you repeat has not served Argentina's claim one jot in all the years since. And, in any case, it is all just theory. Not reality. In the real world, the UN is a political talking shop with little real power and is often ignored. For example, Argentina ignored SC 502 back in1982.
Jun 24th, 2019 - 04:54 am - Link - Report abuse +3As I've said before, so-called 'international law' is no LAW at all. Just a body of theory. Real laws can be enforced. Fanciful notions cannot.
Roger Lorton, when did the Islanders NOT HAVE the right to self Determination? Where they ever governed by G.B. without their consent or against their will?
Jun 24th, 2019 - 06:32 am - Link - Report abuse -7It's a British scam old man, to use the people on the islands as a monkey wrench with its own monkey, and try to supersede the Argentine dispute over this territory and its denouncement of forced usurpation against Her Majesties holier than thou stuck in past imperial glory kingdom of thieves.
Your idiocy is showing Alex. The right to self-determination is very much a 20th century theory, only accepted fully as a right by Britain (and others) after the coming into force of the Covenant in 1975.
Jun 24th, 2019 - 07:06 am - Link - Report abuse +5Falklands sovereignty is British, however London has now accepted that the rights of the people of the Falklands NSGT over-rule territorial sovereignty and that only they can decide their territory's future. No scam at all. A simple, if reluctant, recognition that human rights top territorial rights.
You'll sleep easier once you get around to accepting that reality.
Kohen
Jun 24th, 2019 - 08:21 am - Link - Report abuse +3Para 161 of the ruling stated - In the court’s view, the law on self-determination constitutes the applicable international law during the period under consideration, namely between 1965 and 1968. The court noted in its Advisory Opinion on Namibia the consolidation of that law: - ‘’ In the subsequent development of international law in regard to non-self-governing territories, as enshrined in the charter of the United Nations, made the principle of self-determination applicable to all of them.’’ (Legal consequences for states of the continued presence of South Africa in Namibia (South West Africa) notwithstanding Security Council Resolution 276 (1976) Advisory Opinion, ICJ Reports 1971, p31, para 52). (Legal Consequences of the Separation of the Chagos Archipelago from Mauritius in 1965, ICJ Advisory Opinion, 25 Feb 2019 Para 161).
'ALL’
Used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing.
As predeterminer ‘all the people I met’
‘she left all her money to him’
As determiner ’10 per cent of all cars sold’
‘He slept all day’
As pronoun ‘carry all of the blame’
‘We all have different’
Liberato
Jun 24th, 2019 - 10:44 am - Link - Report abuse +3“In the process of decolonization” Is is a political term, what is binding is the Charter which the UK and the FI are in full compliance with.
The one is a press release which contends the US is neutral, with decidedly political overtones.
The other is legal notice served on Argentina.
In more practical terms it meant.“..In the Falklands crisis, Britain is reminding us all that certain basic principles, such as honour, justice, and patriotism, remain valid and must be sustained by more than words.” Henry Kissinger the former US Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs reflects on British and American attitudes to foreign policy
From the Guardian archive, Friday 11 May 2012
http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2012/m...
Liberato there is no country called Malvinas, no wonder the UN does not recognise it.
Jun 24th, 2019 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse +3“take advantage of our education and national health system, under the same conditions as the rest of Argentine citizens”
Jun 25th, 2019 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse +1The idea is chilling. argentino + 7i3g5n9o2r1a8n6t4e -> ignorante
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!