MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
New Falklands Museum to be a positive political statement.
When the seat of government of the fledgling British colony in the Falkland Islands was moved from Port Louis to Stanley, in 1845, under the direction of Governor Moody, one of the first buildings to be constructed in what became known as the Government Dockyard, was a large store. This shingle clad, two story building, known as the Old Central Store still exists and is thought to be possibly the earliest large construction in the whole of the Southern Cone of South America. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rules“strengthen their sense of a national identity”
Nov 09th, 2013 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ice always said that CFK has some more to strengthen this than any other single person on the planet. I hope one day to visit. I hope to one day visit the museum and see a permanent exhibition to CFK chronicling her contribution to Falkland Islands statehood.
I think it's amazing that two women, Thatcher and Kirchner, will have had such a lasting impact on these Islands.
“...This shingle clad, two story building, known as the Old Central Store still exists and is thought to be possibly the earliest large construction in the whole of the Southern Cone of South America.”
Nov 10th, 2013 - 03:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0But didnt the islanders said the islands are not located in south america?
New British Museum on Argentinian land.
Nov 10th, 2013 - 05:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0It will feel like walking through the loot vault of the world's biggest thief, England.
What's the problem the artefacts are well looked after and you can always visit....oh that's right you can't can you? Not to worry you can always watch on the TV ......providing you have electricity back on Argyland.
Nov 10th, 2013 - 07:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0@2 @3
Nov 10th, 2013 - 08:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0This building pre-dates your country. Do you ever think about the Qom-lik when you make your stupid remarks, you devastated their ecosystem by chopping down all their Quebracho trees, then you just murdered them in cold blood and you were still murdering them right up to the 1920's.
You are the thieves, you are the murderers, you are the ones squatting on stolen land. You should be as ashamed everytime you wake up in the morning.
@3 you prove the Falklands are yours, I know for a fact you can't, because you know as well as I do that your claims are full of lies. Remember when you said that we usurped the Falklands? the people that were there had permission from Britain to be in the Falklands at the time, and then like a trojan horse tried to claim them, just like you try to do with Antarctica.
Nov 10th, 2013 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Still here Marcos?
Nov 10th, 2013 - 10:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hypocrit!
TWIMC
Nov 10th, 2013 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0This shingle clad two story pirate building from 1846 known as the Old Central Store, thought to be the earliest large construction in the Southern Cone of South America, will be converted into a museum…
What about exhibiting in it this guaranteed authentic earliest and first LEGAL tender 10 Pesos Isla de Malvinas bill from 1829…?
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Vernet_Luis_10_Pesos.png
You know what they say..:
“Money talks”.
@2
Nov 10th, 2013 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0“But didnt the islanders said the islands are not located in south america?”
I'm sure it could be changed to the South Atlantic.
But again the Brits were in Patagonia and building in the Southern Cones long before the Hispanics.
Any buildings in Ushuaia built by the British or not?
2 Liberato
Nov 10th, 2013 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, we didn't say that.
3 Marcos Alejandro
'Loot vault' ?? What are you talking about? The kind of museums you know about might well be full of stolen pre- Columbian art.
This one will be full of social artefacts, tools, clothing, photos etc, and wildlife displays, and absolutely nothing to do with Argentina. Oh apart from the 1982 room.
The best thing about the new museum is that it puts that shameful episode in its right context; as a short nasty aberration in nearly 200 years of peaceful settlement and hard work.
Quite looking forward to the shop and cafe as well.
TWIMC
Nov 10th, 2013 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Googleing further about that “10 Pesos - Isla de Malvinas bill from 1829” I just mentioned at post No. (8); I’m happy to inform you that the National Archive in Buenos Aires is in possession of a fair amount of them.....
http://www.diasdehistoria.com.ar/userfiles/image/MALVINAS%20MONEDA%20LOCAL.jpg
I'm positive that the donation of some of those historical Malvinas bills to that new museum in Malvinas could be arranged without any hassle....
Not anymore, they have been transferred to the Argentine National Bank, surely you read about an increase in their reserves!
Nov 10th, 2013 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@2 You're quite right! But then, the portion in italics seems to have been inserted by MercoPress. So it can't be attributed to the Islanders. Besides, isn't there some question about what constitutes the “Southern Cone”? Apparently, it only means argieland, chile and uruguay. That's an encyclopedia definition. But then, it rather depends on whether one is talking about political south america or geographic south america. No different really than Canada being part of North America but not the United States!
Nov 10th, 2013 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@3 It's really difficult for you, isn't it? Argieland has no valid claim to the Falkland Islands. As you could appreciate if you hadn't been brainwashed. Evidence? That papal bull in 1493 was meaningless. As was the Treaty of Tordesillas in 1494. Neither had any relevance to Britain. Moreover, by the mid 16th century, Britain rejected Catholicism and papal authority. A Spanish claim? It's true that Spain “tried” in 1770. But then, in 1771, it failed. Sovereignty is something that can't be “inherited”. I know that argieland isn't keen on “law”, but you can't make over 200 other countries agree with an argie “wish list”. And what's the rest? Two months in 1820 by a pirate? An illegal occupation by a traitor and pirate 1828-1832? Another illegal occupation (74 days) in 1982? And that's it! Not exactly much reason to call it argie land, is it? Never mind, it may be that, in a couple of hundred years, you'll “advance” to the level of being juvenile. You'll be aware when it happens. You'll stop having delusions. You'll stop thinking that, if you say something often enough, people will believe you. Perhaps you'll even learn to stop lying!
There seems to be some interference. A bug has appeared. Random, meaningless gobbledygook appears. But it's not serious. Just an annoyance. Ignore it.
@ 11
Nov 10th, 2013 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TWAT
I would imagine any new museum in the Maldives would be rather bemused to receive such a contribution? But hey-ho, your nation is known as one that likes to perform random bizarre gestures (especially in the foreign relations field). Its all part of being a banana after all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtXH5w0Q5ug
like i said earlier the trojan horse, the notes were not leagal tender as they tried to use them in the British Falkland islands. And as history shows those notes were a bit like the argie notes these days, Useless!
Nov 10th, 2013 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TWIMC
Nov 10th, 2013 - 12:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As the Anglos luuuuuuuv to say...:
“Money talks; bulls**t walks”
Or even...:
“Show me the money”
Well,,,,,Here it is then...:
1829's Ten Pesos bill from Malvinas :-)))
http://www.diasdehistoria.com.ar/userfiles/image/MALVINAS%20MONEDA%20LOCAL.jpg
Malvinas Islands are located south of Puerto Sánchez in the General Carrera Lake, Aisén Region of Chile.
Nov 10th, 2013 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Be careful Chile, the Argies will be invading them soon!
@16
Nov 10th, 2013 - 01:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What the freak are you doing wasting your time on here!!!!
Get on the blower to Tinmann ASAP......He'll get Tango 01 gassed up and flight plan filed to the Hague ICJ pronto.....That note is dynamite!! KFC will be giving you medals and a sh!tty blue sash this time next week, tops.
TWIMC
Nov 10th, 2013 - 01:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A fundamental piece of them Islands history...
The first LEGAL TENDER on them windblown Islands...
Printed in SPANISH..., not ENGLISH, FRENCH or DUTCH...
Denominated in PESOS..., not POUNDS, FRANCS or GUILDERS...
Worthy of being exhibited in the upcoming Puerto Estanley museum...
As I said before....................... ....................................... Money talks.
http://www.diasdehistoria.com.ar/userfiles/image/MALVINAS%20MONEDA%20LOCAL.jpg
@16
Nov 10th, 2013 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0These are the notes that caused Rivero to murder Brisbane et al in 1833, as he preferred the silver from Captain Onslow, as no one else fishing around the Islands would accept the notes.
The only place they could be used was at the store at Port Louis, where Vernet inflated the prices.
If these were legal tender, why do you think it is that the ships calling in a t Port Louis would not accept them?
I find it hilarious that you are wheeling out the very reason why Rivero and his gang murdered the rest of Vernet's community.
A contradiction there.
Buy hey, you and Gollum can take this evidence to the ICJ.
Or are you Argie conspiracy theorists worried it's located at 'the Hague?'
I think islanders should agree on history and put their ducks in line.
Nov 10th, 2013 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0First, they teach their student that they do not live in south america, that they live in the south atlantic NEAR south america. But now they feel pretty south americans and part of the southern cone?.
Why dont you stop lying to yourself, and recognise the islands are south american but islanders are not.
@21
Nov 10th, 2013 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And how are the Falkland Islanders different from you. Your Spanish/Italian/.. no?
I'm familiar with the Mapuche, Toba, Amerindians but “Argentines” ??
Perhaps your “tribe” came down from the Andes I guess to conqueror these other peoples and their land. Are you a hypocrite?
@16.Thinko,
Nov 10th, 2013 - 02:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You do muddy the waters at times!
That 1828 note ... An interesting historical document I would agree, but legal tender definitely not.
The King of Patagonia also issued his own coinage, minted “ Nouvelle France”. Indeed the present incumbent to that title Prince Phillipe was still issuing commemorative coins of his so called realm in 1988 but that doesnt mean to say they are legal tender
The Vernet note is not legal tender and never was. It is a “vale” or promisory note signed by Vernet himself.
The one shown on wikipedia has been annuled by a cross either because it was redeemed by Vernet or considered irredeemable by a third party such as a bank
This is company money, a device often used by employers at the time and which could only be used to purchase goods at highly inflated prices at the employers store
The very fact that it is headed Islas Malvinas recognizes that the islands were a distinct entity from Argentina at the time. Coming closer to our time Argentine stamps were issued during the 1982 occupation of the Falklands, but that in itself does not confer legitamacy on the invasion
I would be genuinely interested in your comments and please omit the usual sarcastic comments.
(23) redp0ll
Nov 10th, 2013 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is you muddying the waters…....
Orélie-Antoine I was NEVER recognized nor designated by any Chilean or Argentinean authority to do ANYTHING in Patagonia……; that’s why his coinage was NEVER legal tender…
Luis Vernet was officially designated and authorized by the Argentinean authorities to manage the Malvinas Islands……..; that’s why his coinage was legal tender…
http://www.diasdehistoria.com.ar/userfiles/image/MALVINAS%20MONEDA%20LOCAL.jpg
As was Julius Popper; officially authorized by the Argentinean authorities to manage great extensions of Tierra del Fuego…..; that’s why his coinage was legal tender…
http://www.diasdehistoria.com.ar/userfiles/image/MALVINAS%20MONEDA%20LOCAL.jpg
PS...:
Funny, you saying to be “genuinely interested in my comments” and asking me to “omit the usual sarcastic comments” whilst misspelling my “Nome de Plume”.....
@24 nome de plume or nome de Guerre?
Nov 10th, 2013 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think Pete has already answered your post with far more historical accuracy than I
Who authorized Vernet has been extensively debated on these threads for some time sonot much point in reiterating the arguments
I wasn't aware of Poppers coinage, but from the images you post they would appear to be gold and so have some value as opposed to Vernets paper
As a numismatist,please take another look at Vernets promissory notes
Only redeemable in Isla Malvinas
Please note the lack of the plural on the notes
May I suggest three exhibits for the museum.
Nov 10th, 2013 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. A copy of paragraph 52 of the ICJ advisory opinion of 1971.
2. A copy of paragraph 54 of the ICJ advisory opinion of 1975.
3. A copy of article 73 of the UN Charter.
The first two state that ALL (my emphasis) Non-Self-Governing Territories have the right of self determination.
Article 73 of the UN Charter states that the 'interests' (not wishes) of the 'inhabitants' (not people or population) are 'paramount'.
A few dictionary definitions of the 'English' meaning of 'paramount' may also be helpful.
This would ensure that any visitor with even a modest comprehension of the English language would be given a very good idea of the lack of credibility in the claims put forward by Argentina.
24 Think
Nov 10th, 2013 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The note you refer to is a “paper note” printed and issued by Luis Vernet himself. It was not issued by a bank, nor was it backed up by any reserves of gold or hard currency. It is is fact just a piece of worthless paper.
The use of this paper money was a major issue of discontent between Luis Vernet and the gauchos he employed. This was recorded by both Captain Onslow of HMS Clio and Captain Hope of HMS Tyne (who’s passenger Colonel Belford Hinton Wilson, the British ambassador-designate to Peru, spoke fluent Spanish) . The British captains noted the gauchos preference for payment in silver coins, i.e. real money, and duly paid for their own supplies of food and water in real money.
In his account of the Port Louis murders on the 26th of August 1833, Thomas Helsby indicates that it was Luis Vernet’s deputy, Matthew Brisbane use of Vernet paper currency to pay the gauchos that triggered the murders.
Although Argentinas creation of a “Political and Military Command of the Malvinas” on the 10th June 1829 was officially gazetted the appointment of Luis Vernet to this post was not and was therefore a purely private arrangement.
Britain of course made the strongest protest at the time regarding the creation of this illegal command on what was (and remains) British territory.
It is of course ridiculous to suggest that the private appointment (or indeed official) appointment of Vernet to this post entitles him to act as a central bank in order to issue paper money with which to pay the employees of his own purely private enterprise.
Even the gauchos, unsophisticated as they probably were in matters of diplomacy and high finance, recognised at once that they were being ripped off.
As somebody posted, money talks BS walks.
Nov 10th, 2013 - 05:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That is why the Falkland Islands are the Falkland Islands- and not the malvinas.
BS walks...............or at least got kicked out in 1982.
Of course the concept of “legal Tender” is invalid in the case of Vernet’s notes. In law a currency is legal tender if a creditor has to by law accept payment by a debtor in the said currency. The authorities (such as they were in the political chaos at the time) in Buenos Aires passed no such law. In any transaction both parties are free to agree to accept any form of payment whether legal tender or otherwise according to their wishes. At the time silver, and gold coins issued by the major European powers acted as universal currency, especially in unstable stateless areas such as South America. The gauchos were free to accept payment for their goods and services in any currency they choose. Dutch silver was probably just as acceptable as English.
Nov 10th, 2013 - 05:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(27) rupertbrooks0
Nov 10th, 2013 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“The note you refer to is a “paper note” printed and issued by Luis Vernet himself. It was not issued by a bank, nor was it backed up by any reserves of gold or hard currency. It is in fact just a piece of worthless paper.”
I say....:
Please refer to ANY “paper note” issued by ANY institution, bank or Nation that is “truly backed up“ by reserves of gold or any ”hard currency“, whatever that may be...
Each and every ”paper note“ in this World is, in fact, just a piece of worthless paper...
The ONLY thing keeping up the value of such ”paper notes“ is public confidence...
There was NO problem whatsoever with them ”unsophisticated gauchos“ confidence in Vernet's ”paper notes” in 1829, 1830, 1831 and 1832...
Not until January 1833, when British usurpation destroyed the social fibre of Malvinas society, coercing most of the working gauchos to stay under false promises of proper payment…
Rivero & Co. quickly recognized they had been ripped off by the British and took matters into own hands...
This 1800's masterpiece will be hanged in this new museum.
Nov 10th, 2013 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/English_imperialism_octopus.jpg
21 Liberato
Nov 10th, 2013 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0''First, they teach their student that they do not live in south america''
No we don't. What would you know about what we teach our students? That's right; nothing.
You're basing your assumption on your own brainwashing of Argentine children.
We have cultural and other links with the other South Atlantic OTs. We also have strong links with Chile and Uruguay.
Don't tell us how we feel.
Marcos and Think:
Nov 10th, 2013 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even if we nasty British conquered the Falkland Islands 200 years ago from Argentina why does that mean they should be returned against the wishes of the current inhabitants?
Argentina conquered vast swathes of Patagonia and large parts of Paraguay in the intervening years, should they be returned? What about all the other countries in world that have seen territorial changes? Why settle at 200 years, why not 300 or 600?
30 Think
Nov 10th, 2013 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The British did not destroy what social fabric existed in the multi-national community of some 25-30 people that were living on the islands at the time. They only removed a mutinous and murderous Argentine garrison that was on the islands for less than 3 months, and were terrorising this civilian population. The Captains of both the Clio and the Tyne reported the pre-existing discontent amongst the community with Vernets paper money. The Captains paid for their goods in real silver coins and then left.
Thomas Helsby was on the islands at the time and witnessed the murders. He reported the anger felt at the use of paper money by Matthew Brisbane and wrote of this in his book as the cause of the murderous dispute.
The social fabric of the islands was not destroyed by the visit of the Clio. An account of life on the islands is provided by Charles Darwin in his book “The Voyage of the Beagle”. Furthermore the ship; “The Rapid” left the islands on 5 April 1833, taking to Buenos Aires a full cargo of produce including cow hides and rabbit skins, demonstrating that Vernets enterprise was still active.
Rivero didn't murder 5 of their fellow men due to being ripped off by the British but because they were being ripped of by Matthew Brisbane, who paid them in Vernets worthless paper. It is clear that Vernets currency did not enjoy the “public confidence” of the resident population of the Falklands at the time. Furthermore what on earth were the gauchos supposed to do with this paper money if they have saved it and returned with it to Buenos Aires? What shop, tavern, hotel or other enterprise would have accepted it as payment?
The paper money is of course of historical interest and as such may well have an appropriate place in the Falklands Islands museum.
(34) rupertbrooks0
Nov 10th, 2013 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“The British did not destroy what social fabric existed.........etc, etc, etc.”
I say...:
Noooooo, of course not.....
The British where just passing through the South Atlantic, minding their own business and trying their best to help their fellow men.......
As they where doing in Southern Africa, when them treacherous, murderous Zulus cowardly and without any reason attacked them.
Well......., at least that's how it was reported by the (British) eyewitness of the time....
35 Think
Nov 10th, 2013 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What on earth have the Zulus got to do with the Falklands in 1833? I have no knowledge of South African history. It's just a red herring in this instance anyway.
I guess since your claim that the visit of HMS Clio destroyed the islands social fabric has been refuted you vainly attempt to change the subject.
The visit of HMS Clio was part of a planned annual visit to the islands. The murderous activities of Rivero persuaded the British Admiralty to upgrade their responsibilties to the civilian population by installing a naval resident in 1834.
The British government decided to upgrade the possession of the islands into a formal crown territory in 1842, with a governor to represent the British crown and the full rule of law. This makes the Falklands the most politically stable commun ity in South America. Government house in Port Stanley was built in 1845 (when was the Casa Rosada built?)
It's a bit rich an Argentinian complaining about British 19 century colonialism when Argentina today largely consists of land that they stole in the 19 century.
The Zulu people still exist in South Africa, and have their own distinct culture and political party. Argentinians can't say the same about the Mapuche people.
@21 I have news for you. You're a prat. You should piss off now. Before someone goes to town on you.
Nov 10th, 2013 - 07:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@24 Shit types!
@30 Shit types again!
@31 Can't you travel? You too could be hanged in the museum!
@35 More shit types! But there is an answer! Pour thick bleach down its throat.
(36) rupertbrooks0
Nov 10th, 2013 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say…:
”What on earth have the Zulus got to do with the Falklands in 1833?
I have no knowledge of South African history. It's just a red herring in this instance anyway.”
I say…:
I could have cited dozens if not hundreds of other Nations fuc*ed by the British during the last 500 years…. We are, as a matter of fact, as abundant as herrings in the sea…
You say further...:
“I guess since your claim that the visit of HMS Clio destroyed the islands social fabric has been refuted you vainly attempt to change the subject.
I say...:
My claim has been refuted…..? Really…..? By whom…..?
By a Brit using as sources the very same British military personnel that committed the deed?
You end saying…:
“The Zulu people still exist in South Africa, and have their own distinct culture and political party. Argentinians can't say the same about the Mapuche people.”
I say…:
Yes we can…. The Mapuche People still exist in Patagonia, and they have their own distinct culture and political organizations.
Inform yourself……
Tink, actually you are right - that 10 peso note is and was part of the Islands history from whichever side looks at it. That cannot be denied. Maybe in a couple of years time whent the new Museum is complete here and there is a new Govt in B.A.- the gesture of a donation of a note from your National Archives could even be the start of a new aim to improve relations.
Nov 10th, 2013 - 08:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@31
Nov 10th, 2013 - 08:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But of course, Marcos. A museum is exactly where it belongs. Good to see you've recognised this at long last.
@30
“coercing most of the working gauchos to stay under false promises of proper payment…”
Was it “coercing” or “false promises”, since they're not the same thing?
This is a welcome change, nonetheless, from the usual absurd contradiction that the civilian population was expelled but still around to murder and be murdered some months later. I just wonder if you have any more evidence for the current version of the story than you did for the previous one?
Old Think has got his knickers in a twist again, confusing the battles of Rorkes Drift and Colenso with those of Goose Green and Tumbledown where of course no doubt in future Argentine history his compatriots resisted to the last man as General Galtieri wish them to do
Nov 10th, 2013 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(39) Islander1
Nov 10th, 2013 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe.....
(41) redpoll
I much prefer to remember Isandlwana, where English haughtiness was defeated.
38 Think
Nov 10th, 2013 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What evidence have you offered to support your assertion that the visit of HMS Clio destroyed the social fabric of the existing community? None so far.
The evidence provided by the captains of the Clio and Tyne is supported by that of Captain Pinedo, held in Argentinas own national archive. Charles Darwin and Thomas Helsby were actually on the islands. Helsby knew personally both the murderers and the victims and witnessed the events himself.
It has been estimated that by the niddle of the 16th century the Mapuche peoples numbered 2 million. How many are left now?
The lands of these people were forcibly incorporated into Argentina by armed agression in the “Conquest of the desert”. This was in flat contradiction to the Treaty of Quilin, signed by the Spanish in 1641, which recognised the independence of the Mapuche. In his account of the conquest General Roca himself wrote quite cheerfully of “exterminating these savages”.
The political organisations of the Mapuche are to campaign for rights and reforms denied to them by their conquerors.
The Republic of Argentina today is a political community built by European settlers on land stolen by colonialism from the indigenous peoples.
The sheer hypocracy in an Argentinian whinning about 19th century British colonialism is pretty stark.
#42 What a surprise that you still haven't replied to me. Coward.
Nov 10th, 2013 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@42 Yes it was Islandwana.
Nov 10th, 2013 - 09:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unlike our kleine Gaulieter from Chubut,I am prepared to admit a mistake
I prefer to remember Goose Green and Tumbledown where Argentine arrogance was defeated, using ignorant Correntino conscripts to sacrifice their lives on the altar of La Patria
45 redp0ll
Nov 10th, 2013 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For your kind info....
There were quite a few not so ignorant Chubutense conscripts sacrificed by the Argentine Armed Farces arrogance on Pradera del Ganso's Altar de la Patria.....
”46 I dont know the statistics from Chubut, but in general I would agree with you
Nov 10th, 2013 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is Argentine Armed Farces a typo? !!!!
(47) redp0ll
Nov 10th, 2013 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You ask...:
“Is Argentine Armed Farces a typo?”
I don’t “Think”so…:
Armed Farces...
http://en.mercopress.com/2011/04/27/guerrilla-military-events-from-forty-years-back-poison-uruguayan-politics#comment45997
Armed Farces...
http://en.mercopress.com/2011/04/27/guerrilla-military-events-from-forty-years-back-poison-uruguayan-politics#comment45997
Armed Farces...
http://en.mercopress.com/2011/04/27/guerrilla-military-events-from-forty-years-back-poison-uruguayan-politics#comment45997
Armed Farces...
http://en.mercopress.com/2011/04/27/guerrilla-military-events-from-forty-years-back-poison-uruguayan-politics#comment45997
Etc……
Etc…
Etc.
Think
Nov 10th, 2013 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tomorrow is Armatist Day when we remember the fallen. The sailors on the Sheffield and on the Belgrano I hope too, not to mention the gallant Argentine pilots and the British marines who also paid the ultimate sacrifice
So lets just remember them.
War is a stupidity which seems to erupt in human development from time to time, usually resulting in the deaths of a lot of young men, some professional soldiers and others conscript cannon fodder
The phrase “lions led bydonkeys” comes to mind
So truce tomorrow Think?
Lets just remember them.
Remembrance..., for those that served the beast..., on all sides.
Nov 10th, 2013 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Avoidance........., for those the beast may force to serve..., on all sides.
49
Nov 10th, 2013 - 10:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Tomorrow is Armatist Day”
Never heard of it, did you mean...
Armistice Day
and..
“War is a stupidity which seems to erupt in human development from time to time”
...is it, what erupts is human technological development.
...also you wouldn't be living where you do without it....
Dying is what humans do anyway without exception...plagues, heart disease, cancer, so why not war...
....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bOKsOveYD0
51 A_Voice
Nov 11th, 2013 - 01:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sentences, dude, write in sentences. They have capital letters and other types of punctuation (...... is not punctuation). They also have verbs, nouns and adjectives and, if you're being really flash, clauses. There is a good reason for these conventions; they help people understand what you are blithering on about.
I wouldn't criticise typos or poor English on here, but I think it's time someone told you that your posts are pretty much unintelligible to the average reader.
Comment removed by the editor.
Nov 11th, 2013 - 01:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't be a plank; a semi-colon is part of punctuation; however; if I use it instead of every other kind of punctuation; it soon obscures meaning rather than clarifying it;
Nov 11th, 2013 - 01:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0You don't be a plank, if I want to create a pause... or create drama... or even draw attention to a particular phrase or word then I can use ...ellipses.
Nov 11th, 2013 - 01:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0You stated they are not punctuation and the link and the list of punctuation on the right says you are wrong..
There is no rule saying how many times I can use...ellipses!
So mind your own business and it will save me from having to correct your ignorance...
now tell me if you understand this I have just highlighted your lack of education
No punctuation at all, but I bet you understood it, so stop wasting my time and yours...the only thing that appears to be obscure is your education!
Mwahaha. I know when I'm being trolled ;-)
Nov 11th, 2013 - 02:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Only trying to help, old bean.
Well try and help Mr Think and his fondness for ...ellipses.
Nov 11th, 2013 - 02:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am not ging to change the way I write and I dare say that he is not either.
It is an old habit and I've explained in an earlier post how it occurred...
So thanks for nothing...
I, for one, wholeheartedly agree with Think.
Nov 11th, 2013 - 02:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0The new museum should definitely display the Vernet scrip. I hope Think will take the opportunity to perhaps lobby the National Archive who are “in possession of a fair amount of them” to donate or loan examples of this scrip to educate people on a period in the Falkland Island’s history.
Unfortunately the 10 peso Vernet scrip is not” guaranteed authentic earliest and first LEGAL tender” of the Islands.
Think should know the difference between “legal tender” and scrip. Scrip is a substitute FOR legal tender but it is not legal tender. It can be viewed as a written document that acknowledges debt.
Scrips are a form of credit and are usually created by companies for payment of employees and as a form of payment WHEN regular money is unavailable.
While scrips behave SIMILARLY to a currency, they are not a currency. Indeed the wording on the link so thoughtfully provided by Think says: Vale diez pesos. Que se recibira en esta Isla de Malvina. En cambio de efectos por el que subscribe.
It clearly says it is WORTH 10 pesos; not that it IS 10 pesos. It then follows that it is only VALID on the single Island. Which means it can’t be used for trade. And lastly that it is used for exchange for/by/with the author; Luis Vernet. It is not issued by a government, nor a bank, but by an individual.
Perhaps next to this fascinating piece of history, the museum could display a Holey Dollar and a dump: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holey_dollar Indeed, unless this now means that Spain has sovereignty over half of Australian and a Canadian province.
Actually now that I think about it, I currently have some scrip in the form of a $100 gift voucher to an arts supply store.
“As the Anglos luuuuuuuv to say...:
Money talks; bulls**t walks
Or even...:
Show me the money”
Well indeed Think, please show me the money and not the scrip.
Is that why Think and A_Voice have diverted the thread so much now?
C'mon SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aye, yer right, Bullsh*t walks for sure.
Nov 11th, 2013 - 04:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0HELLO!!!! It says Falkland Islands on the sign when you enter Port Stanley!
Here , now, its 2013 you pathetic argentinians.
At best you are just plain stupid, at most despicable, you are dishonest crap.
La campora????
Actually now that I think about it, I've never heard the saying “Money talks; bulls**t walks”.
Nov 11th, 2013 - 04:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Then again it could be a saying the younger generation is unfamiliar with.
Or unknown in Australia perhaps.
Or perhaps it could just be bulls**t talk.
@58
Nov 11th, 2013 - 09:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Of course I know that it's relatively common for Malvinistas to provide an example that confounds their own argument, but I don't recall Think doing it before. Perhaps this is why he generally sticks to generic anglophobia, racism, and misogyny.
Agreed.
Nov 11th, 2013 - 09:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Think is usually more clever than this. But not necessarily clever.
Oh and you missed homophobia off his traits.
@60 The phrase ”money talks, bullshit walks, is believed to have originated with Michael Myers, a member of the Democrat party, elected to the U.S. House of Representatives in 1976. Myers was expelled after being videotaped accepting a $50,000 bribe. He was sentenced to 3 years in prison in 1981. So it's not really surprising that someone likely to be equally corrupt knows it!
Nov 11th, 2013 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0#31
Nov 11th, 2013 - 11:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Look at this picture that you continually post. You will note that S.America does not appear in it, conclusively proving that we have never had any any Imperial colonisation of S.A., and definitely not of the Falklands which were uninhabited when we claimed them.
Thank you for confirming this with your educational post.
#42
You could also remember Ulundi where “English haughtiness” prevailed completely.
Agreed, zee inglish [spit], pig dog swine [spit], were beastly to the Zulus, ergo; Argentina is thus exonerated for genocide, massacre of native tribes and usurption of, errh, Argentina! As it is now called.
Nov 11th, 2013 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Us turnips have come to terms with our colonial past and left. Think, its about time you bananas did the same. Pack your bags muchachos and adiós!
I too would welcome “Thinks” currency notes being displayed in the museum. They are indeed part of the islands history, part which the British don't deny or lie about, unlike Stink and his cohorts.
Nov 11th, 2013 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody denies Luis Vernet set up a community on the islands in 1828, or that Vernet accepted a ceremonial title from the newly formed government of the UP.
Where the lies start is what happened to this community.
The truthful version is that the community all but failed, most left the islands by 1831, including Vernet himself, never to return, the Lexington raid destroyed much of what remained, and the remnants of the community suffered a meagre existence under the leadership of Vernets appointed agent, the British Matthew Brisbane.
When the British returned in January 1833, NONE of this remnant community was evicted, Brisbane himself was murdered on the islands by the Gaucho Rivero for trying to pay with this currency...an act celebrated in Argentina.
Indeed this currency MUST be displayed.
Of course in Stinks parallel Malvinista universe, the Vernet community was a thriving Argentine state, evilly evicted by the British in 1833 during their colonial usurpation. poor thick think...LOL
The currency an is historical part of the islands makeup...nothing wrong with displaying it.
@66 you are correct, what the Argies forget to point out aswell is that they were given permission of the British Government to work there, then in a way of a trojan horse tried claiming the British territory for themselves. This is an important part of the history, which means they tried to remove British sovereignty.
Nov 11th, 2013 - 03:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@27, 30...
Nov 11th, 2013 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Does anyone know when the German citizen Luis Vernet received citizenship of the republic of Buenos aires?
Does anyone know with which, or whose funds, Vernet financed his initial expedition to the Falklands...bearing in mind that he received no official funding from the republic beyond tax freedom for 3 years.
Wow!
Nov 11th, 2013 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 020% of the posts were from Think and suddenly when his “currency” became a mere scrip, he's gone.
I might have I change my login to Thinkonite.
Just blowing up the bullsh!t one post at a time.
Think (or otherwise)
Nov 11th, 2013 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You claim that the gauchos had no problem with the Vernet notes in 1828, 1829, 1830, 1831 and 1832 but miraculously had a problem with them from January 6th 1833.
Of course you know this to be lies. More Argentine make believe.
The gauchos and others had no problem with the notes when Vernet was present, before the Lexington raid, which if anything, destroyed the social fabric of the Vernet enterprise.
Vernet had already scarpered, he faced bankruptcy and left Brisbane in charge.
At no point did Britain ever see the Vernet community as a symbol of Argentine sovereignty, not when they gave it their blessing, not when they community was actually doing ok, and not in 1833 when they encouraged the remnants to stay.
If only the Lexington had been British Stink, then your lies might bear any form of scrutiny.
Matthew Brisbane (Vernets appointed deputy) was murdered by because he was still trying to use these worthless notes (made worthless by Vernets absconding and the Lexington raid). The gauchos wanted the real currency being used by the British administration.
Seems like you need to go back to school Stink...your knowledge of real Falklands history is poor.
But of course you do know the key fact: that the Sarandi left on January 6th 1833 with fewer than 60 people, and over 50 of those had arrived on the self same ship just 2 moms earlier.
Poor Think
Jesus MM
Nov 12th, 2013 - 04:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who ever was driving 'think' Totaly fcuked up there right enough.
The very shite that made the tink Riveiro murder An ARGENTINIAN for.
Nossa!! Dirty people. God, you RG need to wash your dung funnels.
Dirty people - in every sense of the word.
The Vernet business is the most poorly misrepresented part of the Malvinas myth, mostly because Vernet and his descendants continually play Argentina for a bunch of fools for their own financial gain.
Nov 12th, 2013 - 10:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0The inheritance from Spain, the geographical arguments and the crew of the Sarandi are all hopeless arguments, they hold no serious strength at all.
The Vernet question, which Argentina totally misrepresents is important, but under scrutiny is just as hollow and pathetic as the rest of the Malvinista shite.
Argentina represents the Vernet business as:
1) an Argentine civilian population
2) Large successful and thriving
3) evicted or subjugated in 1833
4) representative of Argentine sovereignty
None of the above is true.
The Vernet settlement was a business venture, set up with authority from London, never questioned by Britain and supporters both pre and post 1833. It was multi-race and led by the British Matthew Brisbane after Vernet scarpered.
It was a small business, and almost destroyed by the Lexington raid, most had left and those that remained post-Lexington eeked out a meagre existence.
None of the Vernet community were evicted in 1833, a handful chose to go back to the mainland (Uruguay).
Interestingly, the Vernet business was on the islands for 5 years before 1833 and never interrupted by the many British vessels visiting the islands, but the Mestevier crew were evicted at the first opportunity. Says a lot about what the British thought of Vernet as an indication of Argentine sovereignty.
So, as always we get back to the true crux of the matter.
The only people disrupted in 1833 were the crew of the Sarandi. The murderous, mutinous band of rapists, who numbered 50 and had been on the islands for 2 months.
Hardly a usurpation or indeed a footnote....hilarious that 180 years later Argentina (a debt addled corrupt fascist hellhole) has nothing better to worry about.
Very nice all, but when invite to Alexander Betts for a debate? If have enough guts....
Nov 12th, 2013 - 01:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#73 If you have enough guts answer this question:
Nov 12th, 2013 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please explain to us why Argentina should have the Falklands. Even if we did kick out the legitimate Argentine authorities in 1833 (which we didn't) why does that mean they should be returned against the wishes of the current population?
Invite Alexander Betts for a debate.
Nov 12th, 2013 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Good idea, here's my question for him.
“How many of your neighbours did you denounce to the Argentines?”
Invite Alex Betts to the debate....indeed. Alex Betts is or was a Falkland Islander. He is entitled to his view in a democracy.
Nov 12th, 2013 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So, assuming he had cast his vote in the referendum, what was the result?
I find it hilarious that the islanders voice are considered irrelevant if 99.8% disagree with Arjuntina, but if one agrees, he is paraded before the UN.
So, in that case...if I can find a single Argentine that believes Patagonia be returned to the Ameindians it should be?
Or a single Argentine that believes pedophilia is okay, then it should be legalised?
Or a single Argentine that believes the Falklands are the rightful territory of the current inhabitants...?
One lone (lunatic, coward, traitor) voice does not a democratic voice make...LOL
Here's my second?
Nov 12th, 2013 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“How many pieces of silver did they pay you? The going rate is forty!”
@5 “This building pre-dates your country.” Then the United Kingdom signed treaties in 1823 and 1825 with a country ghost. Besides the buildings in Port Louis predate the building of Stanley. You do not tell the whole story to his people.More British lies.
Nov 13th, 2013 - 11:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0@74 To discuss these issues is needed dialogue. Dialogue that you reject.
Apropos the museum, does anyone have info on what form the centenary celebrations of the 1914 Falklands naval battle are planned?
Nov 13th, 2013 - 12:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@78
Nov 13th, 2013 - 01:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not at all, you can have dialogue any time you like. We just have difficulties with the idea that Falkland Islanders should be excluded from any discussion about the Falkland Islands. Could you explain that one again?
#78
Nov 13th, 2013 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Answer me this: If the UK did usurp Argentine control of the Falklands in 1833 does that mean the islands should be handed over to Argentina against the wishes of the current population?
@ Malvinense 1833
Nov 13th, 2013 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You stated:
“@74 To discuss these issues is needed dialogue. Dialogue that you reject.”
First, just think back to Timberhead's empty chair earlier this year, who rejected dialogue?
As for sovereignty there is nothing to discuss until such time as the Islanders' request it. How many times does Argentina have to be told this?
Before you start the worn out rhetoric about the Islanders' not having the right to self determination please remember that the International Court of Justice (ICJ), a principal organ of the UN, has twice stated that ALL NSGT's have the right to self determination. Now the Falklands are a NSGT, confirmed by UNGA resolution 2065, therefore they do have the right to self-determination. Add to that the fact that Article 73 of the UN Charter, when speaking of NSGT's, states that the 'interests' of the 'populations' are 'paramount'. Do you understand what 'paramount' means? It means above all else, that includes the Islanders' wishes, dreams, aspirations etc. and more importantly, any interests, wishes, claims, aspirations etc. of Argentina!
Argentina's only chance is to take its 'case' to the ICJ and get them to agree that not ALL NSGT's have the right to self-determination and having twice said that they do what do you think RGland's chances are?
Very little has been said about existing South American colonies and thier rights to independence. The classic case is Easter Island ,at present part of Chile
Nov 13th, 2013 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Other cases.
Pitcairn Island. With 49 inhabitants it can never aspire to independent nationhood.
@57 A_Voice: “Well try and help Mr Think and his fondness for ...ellipses.
Nov 14th, 2013 - 12:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am not ging to change the way I write and I dare say that he is not either.
It is an old habit and I've explained in an earlier post how it occurred...
So thanks for nothing...”
You have actually changed the way you write................ slightly less heavy handed on the poor fullstop key...................................and so is the Thinko account
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/05/25/falkland-islands-elected-lawmaker-will-attend-c24-regional-seminar-in-ecuador
see posts 26 and 28
both accounts now changed to the accepted 3 dots...chuckle chuckle
Oops pwnd!
Nov 14th, 2013 - 03:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0@82 To take the case to the International Court of Justice should be negotiations between the two countries and the UK reject dialogue.
Nov 14th, 2013 - 11:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Also the UK does not accept pre-1974 cases.
@8 Typical Argie trick to send us to Wiki Commons in order to quote something out of context.
Nov 14th, 2013 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0However, if we look at the caption beneath the photo in the Wikipedia article on Luis Vernet, we see that these were private IOUs (not even private banknotes) which Vernet used to pay his gaucho workers.
Another typical Argie trick: Even though Vernet later made a fortune out of a formula for curing leather, he didn't honour his IOUs for 27 years until 1856, when he eventually redeemed them with compensation paid to him by the British Government.
The caption reads: “Vernet's settlement with the British Government was reduced in order to settle promissory notes such as this left in the Falkland Islands.”
@86
Nov 14th, 2013 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Any two countries can agree t go the ICJ at any time on any matter. Why hasn't Argentina tried asking? Imagine the propaganda victory if Argentina asked and the UK refused? Imagine the historic victory if the UK didn't refuse and Argentina won!
Clearly, if you believe in your case you have nothing to lose by going to the Court. And you're happy enough to take Uruguay there over BOTNIA, and Ghana to UNCLOS tribunal over the Libertad.
And get this - here is Margaret Thatcher speaking in 1982, in the middle of the Falklands War :
“There is no reason, given the history of this question, for Britain, which has sovereignty and is claiming nothing more, to make the first move. It is Argentina that is making a claim. If Argentina wanted to refer it to the International Court, we would consider the possibility very seriously. But in the light of past events it would be hard to have confidence that Argentina would respect a judgment that it did not like.”
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1982/apr/29/falkland-islands
What on earth are you waiting for?
84
Nov 14th, 2013 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ho hum
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/11/06/south-atlantic-patrol-hms-richmond-calls-at-tristan-da-cunha-doubling-the-local-population#comment285360
...look at posts 7 and 9.....written only a few days before this thread...
Another one bites the dust.....Help!...Dot Dot Dot dash dash dash Dot Dot Dot
...;-))))))
@88 Very nice all, but when invite to Alexander Betts for a debate?
Nov 14th, 2013 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@90
Nov 14th, 2013 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What? Is the argument now that Argentina hasn't gone to the ICJ because nobody has invited Alexander Betts to a debate? I'm sure that can be easily rectified.
@38 “I could have cited dozens if not hundreds of other Nations fuc*ed by the British during the last 500 years”
Nov 14th, 2013 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You mean like Argentina? Argentina was unique in achieving advanced development in the early 20th century with British investments but then experiencing a decline when the British left.
The British-financed docks and railway system created a dynamic agro-export sector that remains one of the country's main economic pillars.
@90
Nov 15th, 2013 - 12:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Alexander Betts for a debate?”
I'm sure that could be arranged but it doesn't look good that you can only find one person born on the FIs that supports Argentina's case, as there's more than one Islander that doesn't support Argentina's case.
@91 Hans: No. The case can not lead the Court until exist a dialogue between the two countries.
Nov 15th, 2013 - 01:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK does not want to talk because he has no guts.
@94
Nov 15th, 2013 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is absolutely nothing to stop the Argentine government sending a letter to the UK proposing that they jointly take the dispute to the ICJ.
For the dedicated Malvinista, this is surely a win-win situation:
- If the UK refuses, it's a massive propaganda victory.
- If the UK accepts, Argentina will surely win, given the strength of its case.
Won't it?
The UK has already won, it has the islands.
Nov 15th, 2013 - 08:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why does it need to talk?
@96 Indeed. Actions speak louder than words.
Nov 16th, 2013 - 01:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Malvinese
Nov 16th, 2013 - 09:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Firstly Alex Betts is a lying penis, no need to talk to him he is irrelevant.
Secondly, Britain offered talks in London last year, William Hague our Foreign Secretary was there with representatives from the Falkland Islands Government. Your Foreign Minister shit his pants and refused to turn up.
You misunderstand the term negotiation.
Negotiation means you give us something we want in return for us giving you something you want.
At the moment your offer seems to be that you will stop lying about us if we give you land against the will of the population.
Our offer then is that you give Patagonia back to the Amerindians against the will of the current population and all your government resign enmasse and we will pay you $1 USD.
It's a similar negotiation....
You have nothing to offer the islanders, so they will stay as they are
@94 Malvinense 1833
Nov 16th, 2013 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The UK does not want to talk because he has no guts.”
Britain offered talks in London last year -Timerman refused because he wants to break the UN resolutions by not taking the Islanders interests into account.
It is in the Islander's interests to talk to Argentina; they and the UK offered. Timerman refused, therefore he breaks the UN resolutions on the subject.
Timerman refused because he shit his pants (as Monkeymagic points out) when Islanders were flown to the UK to create the dialogue which Timerman so desires.
Well it's been a week and Think couldn't bring himself to post again on a thread that he was clearly enjoying his initial dominance on.
Nov 18th, 2013 - 12:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yep, right up until good old Anglolatino (aka Thinkonite) turned up and made him look like a fool.
Must have smarted for him to once AGAIN start accusing me of flirting with someone. He's nothing if not predictable. Enjoy the read. I know I do.
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/11/13/britain-dismisses-suggestion-of-any-bilateral-negotiations-with-spain-on-gibraltar#comment287553
@ 94 Malvinense 1833 & 95 HansNiesund
Nov 18th, 2013 - 10:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0As I understand the situation there is nothing to stop Argentina asking the ICJ for an advisory opinion, which is non binding, the same as UNGA resolutions.
This would appear to be a win-win situation for Argentina as should the advisory be in their favour just think of the propaganda value! Should the advisory be against them they can just ignore it, like UNSC resolution 502, which was supposed to be binding.
The only problem that I can see that is that the ICJ have stated in two previous advisories that ALL NSGTs have the right to self determination so Argentina is going to some how convince the ICJ that not all NSGTs do in fact have that right.
The ICJ advisories are available here:
paragraph 52 in, http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/53/5595.pdf
and paragraph in, http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/53/5595.pdf
The first pages of both the above documents are blank, you have to scroll down to view the text.
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