MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Brazil says the RAF Falklands-outbound flight last Saturday was on a search and rescue mission
The RAF Hercules flight which last Saturday landed in the international Brazilian airport of Porto Alegre was flying from the Falkland Islands on a search and rescue mission, as part of a humanitarian effort, according to the Brazilian reply delivered to the Argentine foreign ministry, and reported by political analyst Martin Dinatale. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesSurprised that Brazil feels the need to explain itself to the junior neighbour
Apr 12th, 2017 - 09:32 am - Link - Report abuse +4TWIMC
Apr 12th, 2017 - 11:12 am - Link - Report abuse -5There are indeed clear international responsibilities which faced with a humanitarian situation, any country must provide fuel and assistence to any aircraft...
As there is a moral responsibility not to lie about said humanitarian situations for economical or political gains... as them Engrish evidently are about these many flights to and from Malvinas...
The Brazilians are clearly on the ethical side about these flights...
The Engrish.......... clearly not...
Little shitstirrer Think. You are fond of making serial unsubstantiated assertions and bare faced lies. Prove it!
Apr 12th, 2017 - 11:42 am - Link - Report abuse +4The Brazilians don't care a fig for RG's. Like our friends in Chile they cooperate fully with the UK and the Falklands and snigger at RG outrage. Its entertainment! SA solidarity, a myth.
The expert Think blows again . He is privy to all Brazil's dealings with the UK on this matter.
Apr 12th, 2017 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Does he Think - clearly not - that Brazil MAY have ascertained the need for refueling in this case and acquiesced.
Ethics ?. From an Argentinian ? Another joke !
Argentina is a major trading partner of Brazil. It is not possible that we continue to accept these illegal flights.
Apr 12th, 2017 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse -6We can see something bad happening to our interests in Argentina.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swn6ETuS4B4
“The Brazilians are clearly on the ethical side about these flights...
Apr 12th, 2017 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse +4The Engrish.......... clearly not...”
How so? Our government never signed any agreement not to allow flights, and the Brazilian authorities are in a far better position than you to determine if the flights are genuinely part of a 'humanitarian effort'.
Brasileiro
Apr 12th, 2017 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Just what is illegal about a flight which your own authorities describe as “a search and rescue mission, as part of a humanitarian effort”?
You really are a sick individual if you can find anything at all sinister in “a search and rescue mission”
Brarsehole, we know you are the RG Nostril by another name. You don't speak for Brazil. Brazil are friends of the Brits, not friends of RGs who are merely objects of derision in Brazil. They train with our armed forces there are reciprocal naval visits, why should the RAF be any different?
Apr 12th, 2017 - 12:58 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Laugh about the fantasy A330 landings claims! So how come no A330 took off nor klanded back in Mount Pleasant on the dates Arg alleges?
Apr 12th, 2017 - 01:33 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Innocent C130 actually helping S America out in looking for survivors or debris from the big ship that mysteriously sank off Southern Brazilcently.
Glad Brazil gave them the straight answer!
Maybe once and usually less often does a CIVILIAN passenger carrying A330 end up diverting to Brazil or Uruguay due to bad weather causing a fuel shortage. Mostly the flight stays in UK or holds on Ascension until they are sure weather in Falklands is OK.
Get real Argentines.
TWIMC
Apr 12th, 2017 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Let's have a look at the previous ”RAF search and rescue mission, as part of a humanitarian effort” shall we...:
1) According to the above article..., a RAF Airbus 330 left Mount Pleasant on Sunday March 12th 2017 at 22:44, arrived at Sao Paulo on MondY March 13th. 2017 at 02:47 and returned to Malvinas on Tuesday 14th, 2017 at 23:47....
2) Taking into account that the distance between the Malvinas and the Sao Paulo airports is ~ 3300 km..., and that the cruise speed of an A 330 is ~ 850 km/h....,we can calculate that the ideal, straight line flying time should be...: ~4 hours...
3) That's exactly the amount of time (4 hours 1 minute) that flight took...
Not many deviations allowed from the straight line to any “Search & Rescue”..., I reckon...
4) My well informed sources at Puerto Estanley (Mr. Benson's sister..., Lisa... and the cashier lady ;-) tell me that there were NO MEDVAC's on that week from them Islands...
- My logical conclusion is therefore that them Engrish are telling porkies to the Brazilians about those ”Search and Rescue missions, as part of a humanitarian effort”... to save some gas money on their military transport...
Stop abusing 999 Engrishmen...
You may need it one day...
El Think...
No one has claimed the previous flight was for search and rescue. And how does flying to São Paulo and then flying back again save on fuel? There must have been some other purpose for the flight if your government is telling the truth.
Apr 12th, 2017 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Little shitstirrer Think, now prove it was the same aircraft. Face it Think, the friends and allies you thought were yours plainly aint! SA solidarity is like a chocolate teapot.
Apr 12th, 2017 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Chuckle chuckle...
Mr. Islander1
Apr 12th, 2017 - 05:09 pm - Link - Report abuse -6Flight RRR9001 (Voyager KC3 matr. ZZ334) took off from Mount Pleasant (MPN) to Guarulhos (GRU) on Sunday 12th. March 2017 at 22:44..., arriving at Sao Paulo on Monday 13th. March 2017 at 02:47... and returned to Malvinas on Tuesday 14th, 2017 at 23:47...
Just got a Whatsapp from one of the young ones telling me that the excuse given to the Brazilians for this specific flight was a MEDVAC...
The Engrish Armed Farces have NOT provided their Brazilian hosts with ANY Information about the “Patient/s”...
Not even name, rank or number...
Ungrateful guests...
Rather than believe Think's “facts” I consider the comments of the Brasilian authorities to be more credible.
Apr 12th, 2017 - 05:57 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Think- That A330 flight then may well have been a Medivac of a serviceman/woman who then connected to a flight on to the UK- as no civilians medivacced at that time.
Apr 12th, 2017 - 08:52 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Quite possible that RAF sent another aircraft to Brazil with a full Aeromedical team onboard and thus the patient had no need to enter Brazil. Would not be the first time.
Mr. Islander1
Apr 12th, 2017 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse -3“May well have...”
“Quite possible that...”
If so..., no problemos with us Argies...
But a bit of consideration with your Brazilian hosts would be in order...
The pilots were in Brazil more than 40 hrs... Enough time to fill an A4 formular...
One doesn't just burn 2,000 gallons of Jet A1 without filling some papers... you know...?
So Albert was conducting SAR in the high seas. Very commendable and obviously responding as obliged. What resources did Argentina deploy I wonder.
Apr 12th, 2017 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse +5Mr. Islander1...
Apr 12th, 2017 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse -5I have been looking closer at your asseveration about that...:
《“Innocent C130 actually helping S America out in looking for survivors or debris from the big ship that mysteriously sank off Southern Brazilcently.”》
Well...
As far as I can read...:
The Stellar DaIsy went missing the 31st March 2017...
First responders found debris, fuel and two survivors on the sinking site on the 2nd April 2017...
The SAR activities continued a couple of days more but no more survivors were found...
Your “innocent C 130” landed in Brazil four to five days AFTER the SAR activities were suspended...
How long will the good-hearted EngrishRAF land in Brazil in search for them Filipinos from the Stellar Daisy...?
Weeks...?
Months...?
Years...?
How long will the good-hearted EgrishRAF land in Brazil...?
Apr 12th, 2017 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse +7The answer is for as long as they want. Stop moaning and do something about it if you think you can.
Does anyone know the answer to my question? What assets did Argentina deploy to the SAR operation? I'd be willing to bet none. Or, in other words, every airworthy aircraft and every seaworthy ship they own.
Poor old Think.
The alternative Think, is that the Brazilians are telling 'porkies' to Argentina :-)
Apr 13th, 2017 - 01:19 am - Link - Report abuse +5Maybe...just maybe ...the RAF were having some secret discussions with their Brazilian counterparts about mutual defence matters which excluded the Brazilians nosey neighbour to the south..
Apr 13th, 2017 - 10:16 am - Link - Report abuse +4Mr. Lorton...
Apr 13th, 2017 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse -3i have noticed that you have repeatedly expressed a justified derision..., disdain... and dislike on these pages for the so called “Viveza Criolla” ...
But... as soon as the “Viveza Inglesa” shows up..., you purr like the smartass cat that just pissed in the dogs water bowl...
Try to be a bit more consistent..., lad...;-)
Dear Sociopath,
Apr 13th, 2017 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse +4The only problem with your “Viveza Inglesa” is that it is Brazil and not the UK, that is answering the questions from Argentina.
So who, if anyone will be telling the porkies, the UK or Brazil? Again you try and deflect the discussion to them nasty 'Engrish', but where have the UK stated for whom and what that flight was needed? And if they have mentioned anything, where have they lied.
Argentina has no jurisdiction/authority in demanding the UK provide any data, so it must be Brazil that is either lying to Argentina (not the UK's problem), or telling the truth.
But happily, you are consistent in your paranoia Think, I will give you that.
Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
Apr 13th, 2017 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse +1“As soon as the “Viveza Inglesa” shows up..., you purr like the smartass cat” No such animal. As to Viveza Criolla isn’t that a trade mark characteristic of Argentine society?
I had to look this one up
Apr 13th, 2017 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse +3“ It is a philosophy of progress along the line of least resistance and ignoring rules, a lack of sense of responsibility and consideration for others, and it extends to all social groups and throughout the whole country, although it predominates in Buenos Aires.[2] Viveza criolla has been called ”the principal cause of a moral, cultural, economic, social and political crisis“.[2] It is a similar concept to jeitinho brasileiro in Brazil.”
I don't recognise this as a British attribute although I am sure Think et al live by this dogma.
Lowlander Gorilla Clyde15...
Apr 13th, 2017 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse -2- It is a philosophy of progress along the line of least resistance and ignoring rules (Engrish lying about “Emergency Landings” in Brazil to bypass Unasur & Mercosur rules)... , a lack of sense of responsibility and consideration for others...,(inconsiderate to their Brazilian hosts..., putting them in a very ackward situation when having to explain all those “Engrish Emergency Landings”)...
Juppppppp....
“Viveza Inglesa”..., alright...
Think - are you quite normal?
Apr 13th, 2017 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse +4When have the “Engrish” lied about “Emergency Landings” in Brasil? And why blame the “Engrish” when there may be Scrottish, Welchers, and Lustermen involved as while?
You really never make sense!
Just raising the alternative Think, which is that Brazil is lying to Argentina. When it comes to South Americans lying to each other, I am always consistent, old man :-)
Apr 13th, 2017 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse +3By the way - apologies to the Scots, the Welsh and to Ulstermen! I was only trying to make a point to el nabo, Think! We are British NOT “Engrish”!
Apr 14th, 2017 - 06:24 am - Link - Report abuse +3Ha, Ha, Think still trying to ignore the truth that it is their chums Brazil that are lying to you.
Apr 14th, 2017 - 07:21 am - Link - Report abuse +3It is all the bad 'Engrishs' fault, everyone else is perfect except them 'Engrish'.
Except like normal he has no proof of his ramblings, yet Brazil are providing all the information which he chooses to ignore....typical Think mentality....
You have to be a little understanding with Think, as someone with a certain 'personality disorder', I feel pity for the 'man', he will never change.
He is never wrong.
He never feels guilt.
He can never apologize.
Even if shown proof that he is wrong, he will refuse to apologize and instead go on the attack.
They only plus point for Think is that he is in the country with more psychologists per head than anywhere else. It is just a shame that he clearly doesn't visit one......
Mr. Lorton...
Apr 14th, 2017 - 08:52 am - Link - Report abuse -4This beautiul Engrish picture is a worthy riposte to all the EDL's chavs in here...:
https://cdn.mangobaaz.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/saffiyah.jpg
By the way...
Ain't that you in the middle...?
;-)
Ah, we must have reached the point where Think realises he is losing the argument and tries to change the subject.
Apr 14th, 2017 - 10:07 am - Link - Report abuse +4That picture was in all the papers here days ago, it's old news.
No idea Think - all I got was - ERROR
Apr 14th, 2017 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse +2Don't that say it all about Argentina? :-)
Mr. DemonTree...
Apr 14th, 2017 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse -3And what argument would it be..., humble Sr. Think is losing against the “Viveza Inglesa”...?
The one about a RAF Airbus 330 flying a “MEDVAC” from Malvinas to Brazil without any patient...?
Or the one about a RAF Hercules C-130 flying a “SAR mission” in Brazil five days after said SAR mission had ended...?
Well, so far you've claimed that RAF flights were calling in Brazil just to save fuel, and then it turned out that neither of the two recent ones continued on anywhere else, and the only facts you've managed to find show that both of them were in fact for humanitarian reasons.
Apr 14th, 2017 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse +4You have no evidence the RAF were lying, but if they were it should be a good deal more obvious to the Brazilian authorities than to YOU. If, for example, there was no patient on the Medevac, or the search and rescue efforts had already been called off before the flight set off (and why would they be? People can survive a week in a life raft.) Either the RAF are telling the truth, or they are lying and Brazil is colluding with them.
Not to mention that you claimed your own government was lying about the flights pre-Temer, so these two flights are pretty much all the evidence you have to accuse the 'Engrish' of lying and acting unethically.
Mr. Lorton...
Apr 14th, 2017 - 02:12 pm - Link - Report abuse -3You say...:
Don't that say it all about Argentina? :-)
I say...:
I “Think” it says more about the Thai military dictatorship that apparently is blocking access to Internet sites accesible from Argentina...(And England, as Mr. DemonTree's comment confirms...)
Anyhow... here again..., for you...:
This beautiul Black Country picture is a worthy riposte to all the EDL's chavs in here...:
https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2017/04/09/09/edl.jpg
Ain't you the Brummie in the middle...?
;-)))
Nah, the link didn't work for me either. Said the site didn't allow hotlinking. I just guessed what it was from your description and googled the name in the link to confirm it.
Apr 14th, 2017 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse +2And there's still no 'viveza Inglesa'. :)
Mr. DemonTree...
Apr 14th, 2017 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse -4You say...:
“And there's still no 'Viveza Inglesa'.”
I say...:
Ohhhh..., yes... There definitively is a...: “Viveza Inglesa”...
The French denominate that smug egocentric Engrish haughtiness and cunning diplomatic forked tongue you are currently displaying in Brazil as...: “La Morgue Anglaise”...
“The French denominate that smug egocentric Engrish haughtiness and cunning diplomatic forked tongue you are currently displaying in Brazil as...: “La Morgue Anglaise”...”
Apr 14th, 2017 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Googled “La Morgue Anglaise”, it says 'About 716 results', and the first few are old books. Obviously NOT a commonly used phrase.
Besides, what's so haughty and cunning about a few flights a year that land with Brazil's permission? There's no evidence they are anything other than what was claimed, and Britain never made any promises to Argentina anyway.
Let's face it. Brazil has basically told Argentina to go fuck themselves. Would it help if Argentina knew the dates of all of the planned humanitarian flights in advance?
Apr 14th, 2017 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse +4June 27: SAR flight landing in São Paulo overnight (Adele concert)
July 03: Medical flight to Rio de Janeiro (spot of shopping)
July 12: SAR mission off Recife, 2 nights (scuba diving course)
Etc.
Argentina has few friends in SA. Just neighbours who tolerate them.
LOL.
Thanks for the info..., Kelper... We'll be watching you...
Apr 14th, 2017 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse -4https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YEb1pPFfD0Q
DT,
Apr 14th, 2017 - 08:13 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Honestly, why are you justifying to Think/voice the UK and FI flights in and out of Brazil?
Why are you even answering him, unless it's to generate dialogue (diatribes) from his persona?
What are you Kanye, the thread police? Go ask the many other people who've replied to Think in this thread.
Apr 14th, 2017 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse -4You may be right about Thai censorship Think - I tend to forget it is always there; only remembering when e-mails are slower than the post.
Apr 15th, 2017 - 01:32 am - Link - Report abuse +1There was indeed a time when that Brummie could have been me. I recall the national Front marches of the 1970's well. Packed lunches were awful mind, even the police dogs refused the Scotch Eggs. So we tossed them in the direction of the marchers instead :-)
Ah, the good old days :-)
Jo Bloggs: “So Albert was conducting SAR in the high seas...”
Apr 15th, 2017 - 03:46 am - Link - Report abuse +3'Fat Albert' I presume? Good old 'Fat Albert' has been performing Search and Rescue missions world wide for decades.. It's good to see that 'he' is keeping up the good work, this time in the service of the RAF..
Downunder
Apr 15th, 2017 - 09:38 am - Link - Report abuse +2Tremendously reliable and capable aircraft that I have spent many, many hours on board of. Actually I've spent more hours on board RAAF ones than I have RAF ones strangely. Anyway the RAF callsign for a C130 is “Albert” and I've always found it quite fitting.
Still haven't heard from anyone whether or not Argentina managed a contribution to the SAR response.
Jo Bloggs: Anyway the RAF callsign for a C130 is “Albert” and I've always found it quite fitting.
Apr 15th, 2017 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse +1Very fitting, I am not sure where the 'Fat Albert' moniker started but, years ago, there was a TV character called 'Fat Albert' and it did suit the C130 which is sort of fat and friendly and, as you say ,tremendously reliable and capable.
“Still haven't heard from anyone whether or not Argentina managed a contribution to the SAR response”
I doubt it, you need capability to run a Search and Rescue Region and in any case they were probably too busy trying to establish the whereabouts of 'Albert'.
@Jo Bloggs
Apr 15th, 2017 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0This article mentions that the Argentine Navy sent a frigate, ARA “Guerrico”, to help with the SAR efforts. It also says that contrary to what Think claims, the search was still ongoing on the 9th of April, two days after the RAF flight landed in Brazil.
http://www.icndiario.com/2017/04/09/continua-la-busqueda-de-los-tripulantes-del-buque-stellar-daisy/
Mr. DemonTree...
Apr 15th, 2017 - 12:17 pm - Link - Report abuse -3Good job..., lad... I stand corrected...
Google shows that the search for the Stellar Daisy is still ongoing ...:
https://www.google.com.ar/search?sclient=tablet-gws&site=&source=hp&q=operativo+búsqueda++“Stellar+Daisy”&oq=operativo+búsqueda++“Stellar+Daisy”&gs_l=tablet-gws.12...3997.3997.0.5156.2.2.0.0.0.0.286.557.2-2.2.0....0...1.2.64.tablet-gws..0.0.0.0.EnHrFLLPb5c
But..., not surprisingly..., no mention whatsoever about any RAF involvment...
@Stink MCChimp
Apr 15th, 2017 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse +1D'you really 'think' that by using a euphemism - “I stand corrected” - to cover for all the sh*t you've been spewing, is going to wipe your slate clean ? pathetic ole twit...maybe it's time you slipped back into oblivion with a few single malts....
@Think
Apr 15th, 2017 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse +1True, it says only one aeroplane is helping in the search, from the Brazilian Air Force.
I can think of plausible scenarios, but I doubt we're going to find out any more; the RAF has no reason to explain their movements, and if the Brazilians know anything else they evidently do not feel obliged to tell Argentina.
TWIMC
Apr 15th, 2017 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse -3Some interesting facts about that RAF C-130J Matr. ZH885 plane...
That plane left Brize Norton in Engeland with flight number RRR 5550 to Malvinas Argentinas on Tuesday April 4th. at 08:59...
That plane has a range of max...: 3,500 km...
Not “the best plane” to SAR a ship that went down some 3;000 km from the nearest shore...
Therefore that plane has surely “Island Hopped” from Engeland...to Canarias... to Cabo Verde... to Ascencion... to Porto Alegre... to finally reach them windblown Malvinas Islands...
No SAR mission whatsoever...
Just saving the expense of having a tanker serving it from Ascencion...
Typical “Viveza Inglesa”..
Porky tellers...
I'm not a military buff, where are you getting all your information from?
Apr 15th, 2017 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And are you claiming that Brazil was lying when they told Argentina the flight came from the Falklands? I was kind of assuming that part was true, it should have been obvious what direction the plane came from.
Google...: “RAF Brize Norton Movements”
Apr 15th, 2017 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse -3Simples...
Think
Apr 15th, 2017 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse +2“That plane left Brize Norton in Engeland with flight number RRR 5550 to Malvinas Argentinas on Tuesday April 4th. at 08:59...” That statement is utterly false - there is no destination on our Mother Earth known as “Malvinas Argentinas”.
Mas boludeces suyos, verdad?
Mr. Lorton...
Apr 15th, 2017 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse -2You say...:
“I recall the national Front marches of the 1970's well. Packed lunches were awful mind, even the police dogs refused the Scotch Eggs. So we tossed them in the direction of the marchers instead”...
I say...:
Police brutality...! Police Brutalityyyyyyyyy...!
I don't even want to imagine what nasties you tossed at Scargill's lads...!
But seriously...
You Engrish coppers shouldn't coddle them dogs soooooo much..
Me Patagonian ranch dogs would eat them worn brake pads from the pickup just for the brake lube on them...:-)
Are you saying that the Brazilian air traffic are so incompetent that they do no know which direction an aircraft is coming from.?
Apr 15th, 2017 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse +1I could believe that of Argentina but not from a more developed country like Brazil.
Also, I think you will find that the C-130J flown by the RAF has a range of 3,700 nautical miles equating to approx.4255 statute miles, considerably more than the 2187 miles you quote. In fact almost twice the range.
We regularly get direct transatlantic flights at Prestwick DIRECT from America and Canada by USAF, USMC, US Navy, RAF and RCAF C-130's. If their range was as you quoted, they would fall into the Atlantic about 500 miles from our shore.
Just to clear up a point, where does it say on Brize Norton's site that the aircraft was departing for the Malvinas
All I can see is the item below
Departed 08:59 ZH885 C130 RRR5550 Royal Air Force
Lowland Gorilla Clyde15...
Apr 15th, 2017 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse -3C-130J Super Hercules...:
Range at Maximum Normal Payload...: 2,071 miles (1,800 nautical miles) (3,333 km)
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/c130/c-130j-variants/c-130j-super-hercules.html
Them Yanks should know... They make it...
@Clyde15
Apr 15th, 2017 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse +2That's all I can see on the site too. Nevertheless, the plane did end up in Porto Alegre three days later.
It sounds like it does have the range to do search and rescue, does it have enough range to get from Ascension Island to Mount Pleasant without refueling?
And three days seems kind of slow to get from the UK to Brazil, but I don't know anything about military flights. I can't find a similar site listing flights from Ascension Island either, which would give some clarity.
It does seem highly implausible (not to mention irresponsible) for the Brazilians not to know where the flight was coming from, also not obvious why they would lie about this, (as opposed to the reason for the flight,) which is why I was assuming it was true.
@Think
Arthur Scargill wasn't National Front, good lord!
Also http://www.military-today.com/aircraft/c130j_super_hercules.htm
Range with 18t payload = 5250km. I wouldn't argue this too hard if I was you, Ascension Island to Porto Alegre is 4,551km, the plane would've fallen into the sea long before reaching Brazil if you were right about the range.
Mr. DemonTree...
Apr 15th, 2017 - 11:59 pm - Link - Report abuse -31) Geeeee... boy... Do you really “Think” I don't know who Arthur Scargill is...?
Try to read my comment to Mr. Lorton with an open mind... It may help...!
2) Who should we believe...?
a) Lockheed Martin..., the company that makes the plane...
b) An unknown blogger that has a hotmail adress as contact...
Think...,lad..., Think
Well, it depends if you want that plane to have flown the 4,551km from Ascension Island to Porto Alegre, doesn't it? Have you changed your mind again?
Apr 16th, 2017 - 12:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Anyway, we all know you've decided your conclusion in advance, it's just a question of how you're going to get to it.
Laddie...
Apr 16th, 2017 - 12:28 am - Link - Report abuse -3As always..., there is more than one way to skin a cat...
Posibility number one...: External fuel tanks... But..., as we can see from the picture at Porto Alegre... there ain't any...: http://zh.rbsdirect.com.br/imagesrc/23194457.jpg
Posibility number two...: No payload would increase the range substantially and some extra internal fuel tanks would make it possible to reach Porto Alegre from Ascencion...
But..., I don't believe it to be the case...
Posibility number three..., the logical one: The Hercules flew from Ascencion to Recife or Natal..., refuelled..., continued to Porto Alegre..., where it was spotted by a nosy journalist...
Capisce...?
@Think
Apr 16th, 2017 - 12:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Another possibility: external fuel tanks or a fuel tanker allowed the plane to reach the Falklands, then afterwards it makes a search and rescue flight and calls in Brazil for fuel, as described.
I assume that no payload is where the much larger figure for range comes from. However, if your option 3 is correct, then the Brazilian government is deliberately lying to yours, there's no way around it. I thought you wanted to avoid that conclusion?
Mr.DemonTree...
Apr 16th, 2017 - 01:12 am - Link - Report abuse -3You say...:
“I thought you wanted to avoid that conclusion”
I say...:
Problems with your short memory..., lad...?
You did read and discussed my opinion I reproduce below...:
《Quite soon..., whith Brasil normalized and Temer's chaos forgotten..., the Unasur and Mercosur agreements on Malvinas will return in force... surely costing some Brasilian military their careers...》
http://en.mercopress.com/2017/04/10/raf-hercules-photographed-by-zero-hora-in-porto-alegre-airport/comments#comment465173
But, of course... the whole misery was started and continues because od the “Viveza Inglesa” where the Engrish “Think” it is “Smart” to lie about SAR and other “Humanitarian missions” to the Brazilians..., just to save some gas money...
You can't have your porky pie and eat it..., Engrishmen...
More like a problem with your even shorter memory:
Apr 16th, 2017 - 01:35 am - Link - Report abuse +3“The Brazilians are clearly on the ethical side about these flights...
The Engrish.......... clearly not...”
Do make your mind up; are the Brazilians lying to Argentina because Temer, or are they innocently repeating the lies of the evil 'Engrish'?
We still don't know for sure where the flight came from, or what its purpose was, or what the RAF told the Brazilians, or whether the Brazilians are telling Argentina the truth, and you've changed your mind about all these things several times, but it doesn't matter as long as you can reach your preordained conclusion; that the British are at fault.
Anyway, the impression I am getting from all this, is that in Brasil we can have our pie and eat it too. ;)
Of course the Brazilians are on the ethical side concerning these flights...
Apr 16th, 2017 - 01:52 am - Link - Report abuse -5On the minimal possibility of any emergency situation involving an aiborne airplane one reacts immediately and offers all possible help...
Later..., they have the time to deal with the diplomatic embarrasment cased by the Engrish lies...
The Engrish..., on the other hand...,are just lying through their teeth...
Plain and simple...
Yeah, sure, in an emergency situation you let the plane land. But what you are proposing is that they let the plane land, refuelled it, cleared its flight plan to continue south to a second Brazilian airport, then refuelled it again - and when the Argentine government asked why they let it land at the second airport, they claimed it was on a search and rescue mission from the Falklands. I'm not seeing much plausible deniability there, let alone ethical behaviour.
Apr 16th, 2017 - 02:17 am - Link - Report abuse +2Alternatively, all your supposition about what happened is wrong, and it's quite possible that no one is lying at all.
DT
Apr 16th, 2017 - 02:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0You appear to be the ever-present 'enabler' for El Think's inane arguments.
Think
Apr 16th, 2017 - 09:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Laddie,
The RAF should know....they fly it !
See web page as below
armedforces.co.uk/raf/listings/l0029.html
C-130J HERCULES Specifications (differences from K version)
Crew 2 Pilots and 1 Loadmaster
Engines Four Allison AE 2100D3 turboprops
Max Speed 355kts
Range 3,700nautical miles
Max Altitude 32,00ft
Length 34.34m
Span 40.38m
In service with: (2013)
24 Squadron
6 x Hercules C-130J
RAF Brize Norton
30 Squadron
6 x Hercules C-130J
RAF Brize Norton
47 Squadron
6 x Hercules C-130J
RAF Brize Norton
70 Squadron
6 x Hercules C-130J
As I stated previously, how do these aircraft fly non-stop east to west across the ATLANTIC if their range is as you state ? Do they carry magic beans to put in their fuel tanks or just glide the last 700 miles ?
To get back to the original point, it's obvious that the Brazilians are just giving Argentina a deserved two fingers for trying to interfere with their sovereign business with the UK...whatever that is.
Don't get jealous..., Turnip Kanye...
Apr 16th, 2017 - 09:16 am - Link - Report abuse -3As you can see..., Sassenachs Clyde15 & DemonTree are excellent 'enablers'..., indeed...
One got to luuuuv the way they..., for example..., can duplicate the range and capacities of RAF airplanes..., just by quoting some obscure internet bloggers wrong data...!
Never mind “ small inconvenien trivalities” as OFFICiAL factory specifications or MOD & RAF OFFICAL info...:-)))
(”I can drive me Ford Mondeo from Penzance to Thuro and return without filling the tank no once... Honest Guv'.)
Clyde15's site does not appear to be an obscure internet blogger. Out of interest, where do you think these planes are refuelling in the middle of the Atlantic?
Apr 16th, 2017 - 10:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Have you decided whether the Brazilians are lying or not yet? You seem confused on this point. Or perhaps you think lying to Argentina IS ethical? I'm sure many here would agree.
Think, laddie
Apr 16th, 2017 - 10:32 am - Link - Report abuse +1WHAT A PATHETIC REPLY . Typical of a Troll. When corrected .....bluster.
I gave you an official site but the bumptious Troll knows better. You know eff all about aircraft. Typical Argie arrogance.
I could explain the difference between the C4 and C5 versions used by the RAF but it would be a waste of time dealing with someone does not want to hear the truth and prefers his own version of reality. You would do well being the press officer for N.Korea
I'll repeat..., once again..., for the “enabling” Sassenachs...
Apr 16th, 2017 - 10:42 am - Link - Report abuse -2The plane in question is the...: Lockheed C-130J - Mat No. ZH885 - Royal Air Force ...
It is standard C-130J Super Hercules...
It is NOT a HC-130J Combat King II...
It is NOT a HC-130J Coast Guard...
It is NOT a MC-130J Commando II...
It is NOT a KC-130J Tanker...
It is just a plain C-130J Super Hercules... With a range of...: ”2,071 miles (1,800 nautical miles)”
Rule 101 in life...: Use correct information sources... Sassenachs...;-)
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/c130.html
@Clyde15
Apr 16th, 2017 - 10:58 am - Link - Report abuse -1So what's the difference between the C4 and C5 versions and which is it?
The stats at Think's link list the range with 'maximum normal payload', and also range with 35,000 lbs of payload (why the imperial units?) which seems to make a considerable difference. But it doesn't give the range for a plane with no payload, which I assume is what it would have if on a SAR mission.
@Think
If you are right then the Brazilians are lying to you. Not 'on the ethical side' at all.
Lowland Gorilla Clyde15
Apr 16th, 2017 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse -2You say...:
“I gave you an official site but....”
I say...:
Pretty pictures and a (.UK) don't make no “Official Site”... laddie...
Your “Official Site” are just a couple of Sassenachs n Shrewsbury trying to make some money out of the arms trade...
Check them out...:
https://www.google.com.ar/search?sclient=tablet-gws&site=&source=hp&q=r+%26+f+defence+publications&oq=R%26f+defenc&gs_l=tablet-gws.1.0.0i22i30k1.5725.33426.0.34669.13.13.0.0.0.0.386.2380.0j5j5j1.11.0....0...1.1j2j4.64.tablet-gws..2.9.1970.0..0j35i39k1j0i67k1.-smiweuzX6w
Did you decide if the Brazilians are lying yet?
Apr 16th, 2017 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0By the way, that site with listings of flights from Brize Norton was not an official site either. Just some more obscure internet bloggers who could be mistaken.
When the official sites are closed to the public..., one must rely on the serious amateurs...
Apr 16th, 2017 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse -1Nevertheless, the plane did end up in Porto Alegre three days later... didn't it...?
We know the plane was in Porto Alegre on the Friday, but we only have the 'serious amateurs' to say that it was in the UK on Tuesday morning. And even if they are right, that gives plenty of time to get down to the Falklands and then make a flight to Brazil.
Apr 16th, 2017 - 12:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Brazil says it came from the Falklands, and the Argentine Air Force claims it has been tracking RAF flights; that's the evidence they used in their original complaint to Brazil. So I presume they would know if the plane actually came from Ascension, or even more obviously from Northeast Brazil. Why haven't they said anything, if you are right?
Lowland Gorilla Clyde15...
Apr 16th, 2017 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse -2MR DemonTree is still waiting for your explanantion about the differences between the C4 and C5 versions used by the RAF... It wouldn't be a waste of time dealing with someone that does want to hear your truth and your own version of reality....
Be a good sport... Help him out...
Chuckle..., chuckle
Come on, boys, surely there is something far more serious to bicker about than the presence of British military aircraft in Brasil on what may be official business and nothing to do with the BRITISH Falkland Islands.
Apr 16th, 2017 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Think, señor Nabo, you are just like a dog with a bone!
@Think
Apr 16th, 2017 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm still waiting for you to answer my questions: is Brazil lying or not? And is the Argentine Air Force telling the truth or not?
@Gordo1
We wouldn't want to bicker about something *serious* now, would we? ;)
Wait till the latest news about MoD movements comes out. The trolls will have to change tack again. I guess MP won't pick it up until well into next week now. That is assuming the good God fearing Catholics of SA are taking Monday off to further marvel at one the world's biggest selling fiction books' greatest miracle.
Apr 16th, 2017 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse -1You mean this..., Jo...?
Apr 16th, 2017 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse -1http://www.ascension-island.gov.ac/voyager-air-tanker-flights-suspended/
D.T.
Apr 16th, 2017 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse +2To answer your question. The C4 is the standard C-130J-300 “SUPER HERCULES”
This is slightly smaller than the RAF's old C3 Herc.
The C5 is a smaller bodied version with of the C-130J with the same engines and avionics and with a greater range. It is the same size as the RAF's old C1 Herc.
It had just come out of Marshall's of Cambridge after an overhaul on 8 Feb. 2017 and designated for the Falklands fleet. The RAF have a history of improving on the original
C-130. In the 1970's center sections of the fuselages were made at Bae.Scottish Aviation at Prestwick where I used to have to do the Customs inspections before shipment to Lockheeds in Georgia.
As an adjunct in respect of Fat Albert I believe the name was given to the supporting C-130 of the Blue Angels formation team of the USN.
I have never heard the name used in the RAF. It is normally called the Herky Bird.
Also I believe that the call-sign for transport or passenger flights in the RAF is Ascot.
Every RAF aircraft from C-130, VC-10, Globemaster and Atlas have used ASCOT when calling in to the control tower at Prestwick.
OK Thicko
Here is another site you will not believe.
www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/herculesc1c3.cfm
“The maximum unrefuelled ferry range is 3500nmls, which can be extended to over 4000nmls by air-to-air refuelling.”
But again, why would you believe it. You are under the illusion that the Falklands belong to Argentina.
As you succinctly put it....Rule 101 in life...: Use correct information sources...
This is my last word on the subject as it is a complete waste of time dealing with you.
Unlike you I do not live my life glued to Mercopress which is either a paid job for you or an unhealthy obsession.
Jo Bloggs
Apr 16th, 2017 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just for your information, Easter Monday is not a date of importance for anyone in Latin America - it appears to be a holiday ONLY in anglophone countries.
Jo Bloggs...
Apr 16th, 2017 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Just for your information..., this Easter, the pertinent Argies have been on Twitter with the palacio San Martin and Itamaraty about the subject...
Felices Pascuas
El Think...
I was wrong - Easter Monday is celebrated in Honduras, the only Latin American country.
Apr 17th, 2017 - 05:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Monday
TWIMC
Apr 17th, 2017 - 08:26 am - Link - Report abuse -2TOW2233 Reg. G-VYGJ, from MPN safely landet at BZZ on the16/04/17 - 18:37, after technical stop at DKR...
No SAR or “Humanitarian Situation” in Brazil were used... this time... ;-)
@Clyde15
Apr 17th, 2017 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks, so do we know if the plane in question is a C4 or C5?
And that definitely looks like an official site :)
A longer range makes far more sense, whatever else we conclude about the flight. It just wouldn't make sense to send the plane at all if it would have to make so many stops for refuelling.
DT
Apr 17th, 2017 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lockheed C-130-J C.5 (ZH885)— Royal Air Force
“Sanctions” is currently employed to indicate those measures taken by the Security Council (SC) under Article 41 of the United Nations Charter. According to this meaning, sanctions are decided by the SC in response to a threat to peace, a violation of peace or an act of aggression; thus, they do not necessarily imply that the target State has committed an international wrong. UN Member States are normally obliged to implement the sanctions, unless the SC decides to merely “recommend” them. Sanctions, as such, can be taken only by the SC. States acting unilaterally, as well as a coalition of States, can rather take different forms of international coercion, namely countermeasures. Countermeasures differ from sanctions because they can only be resorted to if the targeted State has committed an international wrongful act.”
Apr 17th, 2017 - 01:44 pm - Link - Report abuse +2http://www.iai.it/sites/default/files/iai1505.pdf
So apparently Argentine claims have no support under international law. In fact such attempts are contrary to the UN Charter.
Argentina best case scenario is simply whining which is unenforceable.
Whining? Surely “winging” is a better description of Argentina's nonsense?
Apr 17th, 2017 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse +1DT You asked:-
Apr 17th, 2017 - 10:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0” and also range with 35,000 lbs of payload (why the imperial units?)”
Because the Americans use Imperial units such as the pound , feet, gallons but with variations. This is a throwback to when it was a British colony.
An US gallon is 4/5th of an imperial gallon, a pint is 16 oz. (UK 20 oz,) US Ton is 2000lb (UK Ton is 2240 lbs.) Aircraft fuel is measured in lbs weight as is the load weight in the USA and the UK..
@Clyde15
Apr 17th, 2017 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ugh, what a mess. I knew about America's smaller pints and gallons, but for serious applications why would anyone use anything but metric? It's all very well for cooking, but I can't even imagine how awful it would be trying to do physics with feet and pounds and stuff.
I suppose it would be difficult for older people, but I wish Britain had got on with it and switched to metric before I was born. Then I would only have had to learn one system instead of the weird hybrid we currently use.
DT
Apr 18th, 2017 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's no worse than using two languages. Our imperial measures were based on human sizes.
From the tip of your nose to your fingers on an outstretched hand is a yard for an average male. I believe it was standardised on the measurement of some English King...way back. They used to measure cloth this way and in archery, an arrow was a cloth yard long.
My feet are exactly one foot long....sounds better than 31cm.
A stone weight would be used for weighing items. A different weight was used for weighing wool and other commodities. The weight varied between 8 lbs in England and 16 lbs in Scotland ---our stones were bigger. The ball used in shot putting is fractionally over16 lbs
The only current non-metric unit used world wide is the Nautical mile used in navigation and the corresponding speed in knots.
Here endeth the blurb.
The different measures for different things is the worst bit IMO. Why did they need to use a different weight for wool? Why on earth is there still a different ounce for measuring precious metals? And why are all the multipliers so crazy? I have no idea how many yards are in a mile even though road distances are still measured that way. Not to mention how silly it is that efficiency is measured in miles per gallon, but we buy petrol in litres. How does that make any sense?
Apr 18th, 2017 - 12:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I do prefer ounces for cooking though because the amounts are easier to remember. The gram is much too small to be convenient, we have the centimetre so why is there no unit for 10 or 100 grams?
I wonder if your feet are bigger than TrollBoy's? But aren't most people's feet much less than a foot long? I always wondered about that, because I thought people were supposed to be shorter in the middle ages. Maybe it was based on some very tall guy?
“...so why is there no unit for 10 or 100 grams?”
Apr 18th, 2017 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Ermmm...
Gram..., Decagram..., Hectagram..., Kilogram... etc..., etc...,etc...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram#SI_multiples
Be cool to see an Atlas serve in the Falklands, Bet the Brazilians will be as pleased to see that as (privately) they were to see a Vulcan land in 1982.
Apr 18th, 2017 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Depending on maker, a size 10 to 11 will be a foot long. If you look at sizes in a shoe shop there are sizes to 13 for men and 9 for women.
Apr 18th, 2017 - 04:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sixty years ago the average shoe size for men was between 8 and 9, for women 4 to 6.
People are getting bigger due to better diet and health.
Don't try to make sense of it. The metric system is a scientific measurement.
All others were based on convenient “human” measurements. An example is the measuring of a horse's height. The breadth of your palm is approx. 4 inches. So, without any measuring tape, you can measure the height to the shoulder in “hands”. This is still used today in the equine world probably because they like the tradition that has survived over centuries.
I use mpg because I can easily understand it. I either convert litres to gallons dividing by 4.54 or Km. to miles by multiplying by 0.625. My generation were taught to do this by mental arithmetic.
For your info. 1760 yards and 5280 feet are in a mile.
A fathom (a naval measure for 6 feet) came about as the distance for calculating rope sizes as the distance between outstretched arms to the fingers when handling a rope and coiling it. The word comes from Old English meaning outstretched arms.
It is easy to see how this unit was used when manually plumbing the depth of water...every six feet (fathom) was one unit.
@Think
Apr 18th, 2017 - 06:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And I have seen those units used oh, approximately 0 times.
Also it's an anomaly that the kg is used as the SI unit instead of the gram, but it does look like they'll soon be able to define it using Plank's constant and get rid of the prototype kg in Paris, which will be a lot tidier.
@Clyde15
Do you mean the foot or the shoe? I can more easily believe the shoe is 12 inches long. This chart says a 31cm foot is a size 13.5.
We were taught to use calculators at school. I don't think I even know how to divide by a fraction in my head, and I have a maths degree! I wouldn't mind using mpg if we bought fuel in gallons, but it's always been litres, it makes no sense.
I guess you wouldn't want a short guy measuring the fathoms, your ship might run aground. It just seems way too complicated: hands, feet, yards, fathoms. But at least those are just multiples of each other and not completely unrelated like some of the different weights.
Well... now you have..
Apr 18th, 2017 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are welcome...
Finger tips to finger tips with out stretched arms is supposed to equal your height, mine does.
Apr 18th, 2017 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Vitruvian Man by Leonardo da Vinci ...
I can't see there being many 6 foot men about in Old English period...
The amount of times I've bashed my head on doorway lintels of old English cottages is unreal...I reckon they were short....
Even now the UK average is not yet 6 foot...
DT,
Apr 18th, 2017 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse +2As a kid I learned both the imperial and the metric systems, their equivalents and how to convert back and forth...agree it's confusing for those who weren't brought up using both systems, but the metric one, besides being scientific as Clyde correctly points out, to me makes more sense
The most bizarre unit of measurement I have come across was in the White mountains in western Crete when I was looking for alpine plants - 22 years ago.
Apr 18th, 2017 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I met a local when trudging up the heights of Gingelos. He spoke excellent English which he had learned when working as a runner for the Cretan resistance in WW2 along with the British agents who had kidnapped General Kreipe.
Anyway, after an interesting talk I asked him how far did I have to go.
His answer..3 cigarettes! The mountain men did not measure distance in length but in time taken to cover the journey. This would vary according to the weather conditions so it would take 3 cigarettes !
As a non-smoker I had no idea how far this was so I continued for about 30 minutes more and by luck, I found the plant I had been searching for..anchusa caespitosa which I photographed.
Last Saturday I managed to buy a plant at Perth in the Scottish Rock Garden Club show. It brought back pleasant memories but the poor thing will probably die within a year as West coast Scotland does not have the same climate as Crete !
@Think
Apr 18th, 2017 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now I've seen them named but still not seen them used for anything. ;)
@Voice
Apparently people weren't all that much shorter in the middle ages:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/542877-the-average-height-of-humans-over-time/
I've heard that the low ceilings and doorways in old houses were to keep them warmer, but I've also seen old beds that looked tiny, and those were for rich people. If you want to see low doorways though, try visiting some Mayan ruins; I swear those people must have been under 5 foot.
@JB
I think they should have made an effort to choose handy 'human' sized units, but otherwise yeah, metric makes much more sense.
@Clyde15
That's a really cool looking plant. Could you keep it somewhere dry during the winter? I put some of my less hardy plants in the conservatory although that doesn't always stop them dying. Maybe I should get some kind of heater.
Also why did they even want to kidnap this General Kreipe?
The story was told in the film “Ill met by moonlight” and there were a few books on the subject of the Cretan resistance to German occupation. The best one being The Cretan Runner. When I was there older people were still anti-German due to the treatment they received.
Apr 19th, 2017 - 09:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0My visit to the Fallschirmjäger memorial at Maleme coincided with a group of German veterans. I expected to hear the Horst Vessel song at any moment !
Anchusa caespitosa is hardy as it is covered in snow in the high mountains in winter..this protects it from frost. In spring the snow melts and the plant grows and flowers quickly. Then it faces a harsh hot dry period until winter snow covers it again. What kills it is damp so it must be kept dry and airy in our climate...... almost impossible with high humidity levels.
It grows on scree slopes with it's roots growing up to 50cms searching for moisture in the sub soil. Trying to repot it is tricky and can lead to it's demise.
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