MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Timerman barred from flying to US; Argentine government will appeal decision on humanitarian reasons
The United States barred former Argentine Minister of Foreign Relations Hector Timerman from entering the country because of several pending court cases. The Argentine government said it would appeal the decision, and request a new visa, since Mr. Timerman, who was under house arrest, was allowed by Federal Judge Sergio Torres to travel overseas for medical reasons. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesIt is a sad situation. Take away the politics and you have a sick man seeking treatment to prolong his life. That said, many of the CFK supporters on here have claimed that they have excellent health care in Argentina, so he will not be without treatment if he cannot travel to the U.S.
Jan 11th, 2018 - 10:06 am - Link - Report abuse +1What a mess, so even the Macri regime is now appealing on Timmerman's behalf (a bit late now though!) while Trump's immigration department refuse his judge-backed vital trip for life saving medical treatment, hiding behind ex-judge Bonadio (who had previously defied even the prosecutions request for him to be allowed to travel). And the upshot of this Kafkaesque nightmare could be that a good man dies of cancer before he can prove his innocence in court of charges that have pretty much unravelled already.
Jan 11th, 2018 - 10:11 am - Link - Report abuse -2“brown shirts Luis D’Elía and Fernando Esteche” Here we go again with the ludicrous language
Kirchner's right hand man.
Jan 11th, 2018 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse +1Timerman added that the Falkland islanders were an “implanted population”.
He said: “Britain wrote the book on colonialism, but now they are trying to tell us this is a case of self-determination.(Daily Express June 25, 2015).
Falklands – Implanted Population (1 pg):
https://www.academia.edu/30505159/Falklands_Implanted_Population
@ B-K How do you feel about all the Argentines without the financial resources of CFK's cronies being able to fly to the U.S. for treatment? Surely if the public hospitals are good enough for them it should be good enough for Timerman?
Jan 11th, 2018 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse +2I feel they'd be better off if they still had a government that was trying to improve public services rather than slashing them to pay for handouts to Paul Singer and co
Jan 11th, 2018 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse -5@ B-K You are joking, right? The health service under the Kirchners deteriorated significantly. Ask any Argentine having to use the public hospitals and you will hear horror stories. The import restrictions imposed by CFK left hospitals without vital medication and supplies. You know this really so stop being a silly billy.
Jan 11th, 2018 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse +4So Brit Bob, make your point other than by maligning a politician with tragic health issues, deeply worried about his future fate, when it is very likely he did not endorse nor was “behind” making the AMIA event happen, when he's no longer in office . What WOULD you call a social population community that was sponsored to colonize the islands by an invading government sent to replace the existing sovereignty of a different country?
Jan 11th, 2018 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse -7Most countries of the west have excellent cancer care, why not go somewhere else. All he needs to do is ask the US authorities to send his medical records to the country where he gets treatment.
Jan 11th, 2018 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Looks like the US remembers Timerman, and the contents of that USAF plane he seized...
Jan 11th, 2018 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +2http://www.weeklystandard.com/argentina-seizes-contents-of-u.s.-air-force-plane/article/550276
@PE
Jan 11th, 2018 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse +5“ What WOULD you call a social population community that was sponsored to colonize the islands by an invading government sent to replace the existing sovereignty of a different country?”
I'd call some of them thus;
Antonio Rivero (not dropped off by HMS Clio or HMS Tyne), from the UPs.
Antonina Roxa. Lady from UPs, not dropped off by RN ship. Previously married to one of the convicts that murdered the so called UP governor Mestivier.
William Dickson (Irish), already a member of Vernet's settlement for some years, (not dropped off from British ships in 1833).Later murdered by Rivero.
Antonio Wagner (German). Already a member of Vernet's community, again not dropped off from the ships in 1833.Later murdered by Rivero.
Ventura Pasos May have arrived after January 1833-there in August 1833, from the UPs. related to one of the folks who declared UP's break from Spain in 1810, certainly not from Britain or dropped off by RN ship.Later murdered by Rivero.
Carmelita Penny. One of Vernet's slaves, freed by Onslow in 1833, not from Great Britain and not dropped off from an RN ship.
Gregoria Madrid Another of Vernet's slaves. Freed from slavery by Onslow, not dropped off from RN ship.
Juan Simon, French, the capitaz of the gauchos. Already there, not dropped off by RN ships. Later murdered by Rivero. Pinedo on departing wanted him to represent the UP's though Dickson was appointed head resident by Onslow. So that's another 'UP governor', killed by UP people within a year.
There were no more than two English settlers there out of the 24 settlers that chose to stay, and they weren't dropped off by RN ship either.
So the most numerical presence of Brits in 3/1/1833= the crew of HMS Clio,and the Sarandi crew.
Who all left the Falkland Islands.
And when HMS Tyne left a few days later, no one was dropped off at Port Louis.
No displacement of multinationals at Port Louis by Brits in 1833.
Who's details are weak now?
That's a FIVE YEAR OLD article FROM THE OBAMA'S FIRST TERM IN OFFICE ! wtf !!
Jan 11th, 2018 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse -4Patrick Edgar,
Jan 11th, 2018 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse +1What? No answer to Pete Bog???
And, “5 year old article...”???
You yourself are trying to make a claim, quoting dubious facts from 185 years ago!
Idiot, hypocrite!
Patrick Edgar
Jan 11th, 2018 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse +3How can Argentina claim the Falklands when she has never legally owned them?
Falklands- Never Belonged to Argentina :
https://www.academia.edu/31111843/Falklands_Never_Belonged_to_Argentina
PE. People have long memories, and it doesn't pay to p*ss of the USA to the UK.
Jan 11th, 2018 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Timerman is dying and should be allowed to travel to the USA. It's unjust for the mass of Argentines who have suffered declines in domestic services, but the word compassion comes to mind in this issue.
GB didn't own them legaly either when they ejected the country that was settling the islands @BB. Moraly, and I believe even the way International law is set up, it can be argued that Britn is still not the owner of the islands, since it entered settlement in a disputing context, therefore technically the islands sovereignty is still not established. The only reason it looks and functions like it's stable, is becasue of Britn's make-up job for the world. There is no formal world recognition of the Falklands being an integral part of the UK, like any of the countries that form the United Nations. No doubt Britn's corrupt influence in international politics could even achieve more in the international scene, that's what pushing oil exploration and the fishing licenses and other things are all about, constituting the typ British ploy conceived to be spread out over the years. Not so different to Israel istalling its own settlers on occupied territory. Yet it still wont change the make up, substance facts and ingredient definitions of the history of these islands. The $ for GB having the islands, will unavoidably burden the Kelpers with a story that will bare on how they will be seen by the world, forcing future islander generations to take on an arrogance disliked by the rest of the American countries, once sadly never part of their personality.
Jan 11th, 2018 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse -5Countries which don't have very “fond memories” of Britn are becoming more interested in the true history of the Malvinas. Eventually one day your country will realize Thatcher and Cameron were never very wise or smart for the islanders about seizing the opportunity they at one point had, which could have continued on from the Junta's invasion, to something wonderful and great instead. I think the reason may be though that Britn knows the islands are not conducive to people living on them ever wanting to have their own nation because of the era we've entered, which if true changes the rules of the game, of course.
@ Chicureo The US didn't let Cardoen travel from Chile to have life saving cancer surgery either. So he flew the doctors to Chile to treat him. This could be an option for Timerman given the amount of filthy lucre the Kirchner gang have accumulated. He could afford it.
Jan 11th, 2018 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Chtrst EM, you still don't get it! How would you like it if I came into your house and “ shit ” in the middle of your living room? I am sure the FALKLANDERS would think that all Argies would do that. I certainly would not liked to be ruled by your standards, that's for sure. Com'on you justify the pain that the FALKLANDERS went through having your lot on their territory.
Jan 11th, 2018 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse +3ElaineB
Jan 11th, 2018 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As you know, we have excellent private medical care in Chile, but when you are wealthy, health has no cost restrictions.
I personally have known Carlos for nearly 30 years. He studied metallurgy at Brigham Young university and became one of the key figures of FAMAE producing perhaps the best quality cluster bombs in the world.
Originally the USA encouraged Carlos to sell the weapons to Iraq, but then told him to stop, but he continued. There was a problem with reselling helicopters that brought down the wrath against him in the end. The development of the Colchagua wine tourism region belongs greatly to him.
Last I heard he was still battling colon cancer. He's a brilliant and personable man.
@ Chicureo
Jan 11th, 2018 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Yes, I know his story well. That wasn't the point I was making. He wanted to go to the US for treatment but because of the International Arrest Warrant it was denied so he flew the experts to Chile. I agree there is good health care in Chile but mainly in the capital. It is also far better if you have money. That said, it cannot match the expertise of somewhere like the U.S.. Why else would Cardoen and Timerman want to go there?
Patrick Edgar
Jan 11th, 2018 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse -2If Argentina has nothing to take to court her claim is illegitimate.
How would a map of the world look today if all of the territory lost and gained over the past 180 years reverted to its 19th century status? Quite a ridiculous proposal.
Falklands – Acquisitive Prescription(1 pg): https://www.academia.edu/35552595/Falklands_-Acquisitive_Prescription
What about Cuba, they send doctors all over the world...
Jan 11th, 2018 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse -1They'd probably allow him to travel there too...
ElaineB
Jan 11th, 2018 - 08:36 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Carlo's wife was the one pushing for him to go for treatment in the USA.
The Clínica Alemania is considered the second best in Latin America, but for cancer, there are several clinics that far surpass Chile. I don't like Timerman, but I have compassion for those battling illness.
The problem in Argentina is that most of the CAT scans don't even function and other advanced methods are very limited. It's a real shame because I remember when Argentina had better hospitals than Chile.
You mean Pilar? She invited me to her birthday party one year on the 4th July but I was going to be out of the country. I rather like them though they get a lot of stick from the old money. You know the class system in Chile, no amount of money can buy you a ticket to their country club.
Jan 11th, 2018 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse -6Cardoen has made Santa Cruz what it is today as a centre of tourism and he deserves credit for that. Most of my friends get on well with him but not everyone does. As for the charges against him, the U.S. have never really defined them or provided the evidence for the warrant so he is stuck in limbo.
Regarding healthcare, there is a huge difference between being second best in SoAm and the best cancer hospitals in the U.S. The funding for some of the research in the U.S. is eye-watering. But I would assert that is is infinitely better than anything Argentina can offer because the Kirchners ran their health service into the ground. Grossly under-funded, under-staffed and under-resourced.
I can't see the U.S. granting Timerman a pass....maybe Chile could help him out in their hospitals.
ElaineB
Jan 11th, 2018 - 11:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Probably he'd better go to the Hospital Israelita Albert Einstein in Brazil, which is the highest ranking clinic in Latin America.
My wife and I were fortunate to be a part of the 500 friends invited to his 70th cumpleaños. Despite his reputation a a tough and savvy negotiator, he's been an inspiration for what he's done for Santa Cruz. In my opinion, Carlos Cardoen has been given a very unfair treatment by the US State Department.
I have two Argentine friends living in Mendoza and San Juan that have insured their families at a substantial cost for health care at the Clinica Las Condes here in Santiago, because their available facilities there are dismal.
Woooooooooow...
Jan 12th, 2018 - 09:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Engrish people invited to a big Shilean arms dealer birthday party...!
I wonder if somebody invited any of late Engrish lad Jonathan Moyle's kin...?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Moyle
@ Chicureo
Jan 12th, 2018 - 10:35 am - Link - Report abuse -2I agree they have treated him badly. They refuse to formulate actual charges or offer any evidence. They were happy to buy from him just didn't like him selling to anyone else. Well, tough.
The man made his money in a morally questionable way but if not him it would have been someone else. He was an engineer and the cluster bombs were originally developed to stop the acquisitive Argentines from stealing Chilean land - but once the invented ...... As for his arms dealing, as he said once 'If you were offered a billion dollars what would you do', which is an interesting discussion point.
I agree, if not for Cardoen Santa Cruz would still be a one horse town and that would have three legs. It is something most people operating businesses there are fully aware of and there is not much going on there that he doesn't have an interest in. Though being entirely honest here, I think his winery is pretty naff and tacky, and his wine questionable.
I hardly think people can try to take the moral high ground when they support a corrupt and murderous regime like the Kirchners.
THINK
Jan 12th, 2018 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse +3Moyle's bungled assassination was a sad result of his spying on things that were too sensitive for disclosure.
Reminds me of what happened to Nisman... I'll comment no more on the subject.
Elaine
There are far better wineries and nicer hotels, but he's turned the region into somewhat would be considered the Napa Valley of Chile. I agree with you regarding the posters here who support the corrupt and murderous Kirchners regime.
@ Chicureo
Jan 12th, 2018 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Not arguing, as I said in my posts, he made Santa Cruz what it is and the local business people know it. I have been to Napa too and actually prefer the Colchagua Valley. I think Chilean and Argentinean wine tasting is far superior in style and set up. A lot of wine tasting in the U.S. is like a production line.
In reference to Timerman...:
Jan 12th, 2018 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse -3https://mobile.twitter.com/Pontifex_es
“Quien no padece con el hermano que sufre, aunque sea diferente de él por religión, idioma o cultura, debe interrogarse sobre su propia humanidad.”
Not all the hospitals under k elaine.....in fact FAVALORO HOSPITAL AND OTHERS LIKE FRANCES OR ALEMAN HOSPITALS AND OTHERS were always good placee for treatment
Jan 13th, 2018 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse -1@Think
Jan 14th, 2018 - 02:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Good comment above. I guess we all need to be reminded of this basic quality that is probably one of the few that makes us better.
Departing from the many hypocritical comments above, I acknowledge Elaine's show of humanity above political considerations:
“Take away the politics and you have a sick man seeking treatment to prolong his life.” Good for you, Elaine.
That being said, it's revealing to see this and other stories having dozens of postings while a story headlined “Argentina inflation reached 24.8% in 2017, well above central bank's target” got only three--none from Macri cheerleaders.
But anyway, I see Zaphod and DT have been debating about my humble person. Zaphod: shooting messenger won't ever do. However, allow me to place a line about this unimportant individual.
Anywhere I went in what is beginning to be a long life, I have tried to be on the side of the weak and against the abuses of power committed by privileged minorities.
My recent election bid was an attempt to contribute to the place where I currently live--I particularly dislike the deeds of a powerful interest group that are taking advantage of unsuspecting electors. It was a discovery for me that even in a highly organized, democratic country such as Canada, good things happen but a few bad occur as well.
Running for office, however, was just an incidental part of that task. I intend to keep contributing to real democracy as a grassroots citizen, here and wherever I happen to be.
“ I have tried to be on the side of the weak and against the abuses of power committed by privileged minorities. ”
Jan 14th, 2018 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse +2Well you often fail on that one, appearing to unconditionally support powerful crooks and criminals simply because they are left wing, whilst ideologically opposing those who seek to drag your mother country out of the morass of poverty and corruption Peronism has created.
@ EM Yeah! Right on! You just sit there in your chair posting to make yourself feel better but actually doing sod all. You are a hypocrite and a coward. You won't have any credibility until you actually go and see the reality in Argentina. Go on. You have had years to save for a ticket there but it is so much easier to sit there safely in Canada and pretend you are doing something.
Jan 14th, 2018 - 12:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BTW you cannot tell people what to debate or control it so give it a rest.
“I have tried to be on the side of the weak and against the abuses of power committed by privileged minorities. ”
Jan 14th, 2018 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's what National Socialists say! Thanks for making my point, you despicable K thug. Meanwhile, your neighbors obviously understand where you are “coming from,” and voted accordingly... :)
@Patrick Edgar
Jan 14th, 2018 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“GB didn't own them legaly either when they ejected the country that was settling the islands”
But the UP military, the UP administration weren't settling the islands, they wanted a penal colony.
Therefore the British asked the UPs force (Under Pinedo in January 1833) to leave by letter.
The settling was done by the settlers, (not the UP military administration) and they weren't ejected.
I would argue that paying Rivero and the other gauchos to persuade them not to return to BA was exactly the opposite of ejecting them.
An early example of British overseas aid there.
The main threats to the settlement were:
1/- The USS Lexington (USA not GB), raid in 1831 when most of the settlers(mainly German nationals) left.
2/- Mestivier's murder by convict conscripted soldiers in late 1832.
If you are suggesting that the settlers already trying to prosper in an already challenging environment found solace with this murder, I would suggest you don't seem to have got it that the UP military were not peaceful earnest and dignified but the 'european' settlers were.
I put it to you that the UP administartion caused the settler problems.
Britain did not kill Mestivier or rape his wife. His own soldiers from UP did.
3/- After Rivero accepted British sovereingty with the overseas aid Onslow gave him and his gauchos, it was true that not being paid for a coral by Vernet was bad. But Rivero went on a murder spree.
This didn't do much for the peaceful settlers( who also had it hard under Vernet), who had to hide on Hog Island.
Again, though the British perhaps should have left a military force to keep the peace in January 1833, it is a fact that the settlers weren't killed by the British in August 1833 but by Rivero who came from UPs.
Yet your constant complaint is that the British disrupted the settlers with force.
The British clearly thought more about the settlers than the UPs did, making it clear in January 1833 that their property was respected
@imoyaro
Jan 14th, 2018 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I Think some of the stuff you smoke is not doing any good. Try to relax--hate and bitterness shortens your life.
Really, Kamerad/Komrade? You are the one who still laughingly says Nisman was not murdered. Naturally, when you finally get frogmarched out of this Vale of Tears to your just desserts, whether it be via the “Invisible Hand,” or more corporeal ones, I will always think of you having “Committed Suicide.” Laughter is the best medicine. ;)
Jan 14th, 2018 - 05:15 pm - Link - Report abuse -1@EM
Jan 14th, 2018 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse -2I got tired of seeing a whole pack of people attacking you, especially Imoyaro with his regular character assassinations.
@EB
Does it not occur to you that he is doing something? Not in Argentina, but in Canada where he lives now. Trying to improve things locally is probably the best way to make a difference.
And he didn't tell you what to debate. He said what people choose to talk about and what they choose to ignore is revealing, and he's right.
@DT Does it not occur to you that EM is trolling? No one could be as stupid and ill-informed as he pretends to be about the situation in Argentina under the K's?
Jan 14th, 2018 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse +1TWIMC...
Jan 14th, 2018 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0IMHO..., Sr. Massot is impressively well informed about all things Argentinean..., taking in consideration he has lived outside the Country for some 40 years...
Another poster that has impressed this auld Patagonian with his prowess about Argentina is Mr. British_Kirchnerist...
ElaineB..., Imoyaro..., Golfcronie..., MartiLlazo..., et alia..., are like Manuel from Fawlty Towers...
They know nothin'...
Like Think/Voice he's another brainwashed bleeding heart grateful not having to support aged relations in his retirement thanks to Kretina's unaffordable handouts.
Jan 14th, 2018 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ElaineB..., Imoyaro..., Golfcronie..., MartiLlazo..., The Voice..., et alia..., are like Manuel from Fawlty Towers...
Jan 14th, 2018 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They know nothin'...
@EB
Jan 14th, 2018 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse -1No, it doesn't. CFK recently got over 3.5m votes in the senatorial election, and those people do live in Argentina.
Besides, the fact he recently stood for election on a platform perfectly consistent with his views here is a pretty convincing demonstration of his sincerity.
Mr. DemonTree...
Jan 14th, 2018 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....
Prepare for the wrath of the spinster....
At this point she normally accuses one of being obsessed with her or of being a misogynist...
Talking of Manuel Tinkle, how is little Basil these days?
Jan 14th, 2018 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@DT
Jan 15th, 2018 - 01:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well, you ask a lot of questions and I know you have been consulting sources, so I know you are not convinced with just words.
That is why is encouraging to read your arguments, and I would only wish others would imitate you, that is, not accept anything from anybody but do their own research.
Anyway. Imoyaro, I have news--not too good, sorry, on the Nisman's case. This coming Thursday it will be the third anniversary of Nisman's death, and judge Julian Ercolini, who ruled the former prosecutor was assassinated, has no leads as to who may have been the murderers.
He designated Nisman's secretary Diego Lagomarsino as “accessory to murder,” but has no idea about who may have been the two murderers that, according to the latest autopsy, would have beaten and killed Nisman, succeeded getting out of a bloody bathroom without leaving a trace, and managing to make Nisman's head lean against the closed door - an amazing feat if there ever was one.
As a result, Lagomarsino's lawyers are considering not to appeal anything to speed up the start of the oral trial, considering there is a total absence of evidence to convict their client--naturally, it would be difficult to prove complicity when the main authors of the alleged murder are unknown.
And may I remind you that I do not support - but strongly oppose - harassing, arrest, torture or killing of political opponents, be it the work of individuals, organizations or governments.
Let's be honest, the US is one of a handful of nations that have recognised Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, are they going to let in someone suspected of colluding with Hezbollah and Iran to cover up terrorist attacks and mass murder. He would be better off trying to get medical treatment in countries that might be more sympathetic to anti Semitic murders - Cuba?
Jan 15th, 2018 - 09:35 am - Link - Report abuse +1Yes, “the antisemites” would really Timmerman, you fool...
Jan 15th, 2018 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why the need for treatment abroad? Is Argentina not capable of giving Timmernan the treatment he requires. Answers on a postage stamp will suffice.
Jan 15th, 2018 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Why the need for treatment abroad? Is the UK not capable of giving 2,348 Brits the treatment they require. Answers on a postage stamp will suffice.
Jan 15th, 2018 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse -3http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/04/record-numbers-cancer-patients-using-crowdfunding-pay-private/
IDIOT...
@BK are you claiming the the murders at the Israeli Embassy and AMIA are not antisemitic murders or are you claiming that Timmerman is not being investigated for involvement in their cover up?
Jan 15th, 2018 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Old news Tinkle, I have just recovered from cancer myself and I can say quite with pride that the treatment I had was world class and that was in the UK. If people want to go elsewhere for treatment then they can do what the like but the NHS is still world class.IDIOT
Jan 15th, 2018 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse +3@Rico
Jan 15th, 2018 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse -1LOL, he's not claiming either. Timerman is Jewish; a country that welcomes antisemitic murderers wouldn't be a very healthy place for him.
@GC
Jan 17th, 2018 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse +1With your experience--and I feel glad and congratulate you for defeating cancer-- you are well placed to know that each medical case is different and each patient needs also differ.
Yet, without having knowledge about the medical file, you feel entitled to suggest where a cancer patient shoul go for treatment.
I wonder if you and other imaginative commentators here would be so creative if, say, a member of the Argentine governing team went to another country for treatment.
The way I see it, all humanistic considerations are lost in the hatred that is being spread about the former CFK government, and that happens both in Argentina and here in MP.
Which is sad.
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