MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Lula is no radical or a threat to stability: everyone won when he was president
The leader of Brazil's Workers' Party, PT, argued in an interview that former president Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva is anything but radical and does not pose a threat to Brazilian financial stability. Brazilian senator Gleisi Hoffman told Bloomberg News that Lula is working on a second “letter to Brazilian people” (as he did in 2002) to reassure the markets about his commitment to fiscal responsibility. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesREF: “Lula's trial is a continuation of the democratic break”
Jan 19th, 2018 - 09:30 am - Link - Report abuse +2Should read as:
“Lula's trial is a continuation of the BROKEN DEMOCRACY” - ruined and made purposefully fragile by the corrupt-elite.
Before the PT slut Gleisi Hoffmann opens her mouth, she should position it over the toilet...
Jan 19th, 2018 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is there any sort of justice in Brazil? Surely a convicted felon should be jailed if he has been convicted and only let out for an appeal or is that not the case?
Jan 19th, 2018 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“...the former trade unionist leads opinion polls for this year's presidential elections.”
Jan 19th, 2018 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Lula's enduring popularity defies the combined efforts of the media, the judiciary and the current Brazil government.
Of course those who want to keep the country as one of the most unequal in the world are seriously worried about it. An example is Jack, who can't hide his contempt for opponent politicians and comes up with a most vulgar and sexist expression in lieu of arguments (where are you now, Elaine?)
And to those who throw their hands up in the air and claim for “justice,” know that Brazil law is like the spider web: catches the small bug, but can't retain the big ones.
@JB
Jan 19th, 2018 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree with Enrique about your comment.
@EM
Jan 20th, 2018 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse +2REF: “Brazil law is like the spider web: catches the small bug, but can't retain the big ones”:
Also; Expect the UNexpected:
https://i0.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/genildo-19.jpg?zoom=0.8999999761581421&resize=482%2C405&ssl=1
@DT
Jan 20th, 2018 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Despite EM's misguided ideas about Lula, pretty clear by his choice of words “Jack, who can't hide his contempt for opponent politicians ...”, I think I have every right to dislike Lula and the PT...and not 'only' because he is ignorant and caused the 2014 crisis in Brazil etc, but because I have been accompanying his 'political' or rather, 'criminal' career, for over 40 years...and know exactly how his sick mind works....something about which EM has no clue...other than what he reads, printed by the left-wing press....and of course, always favourable. Lula's only interest is power, for the sake of power - and to get himself off the hook. The improvements he claims he made during the PT 'reign' have all but vanished...looks like they weren't very durable. EM's ideas about Lula being a great guy are just as stupid as mine would be IF I were to try to give an opinion about Jeremy Corbyn...I've heard different opinions, some allegedly good, some bad, but I don't know the man so I abstain from from issuing an opinion.
As to the slut Gleisi Hoffman, I reiterate everything I've said about her...besides her demand for 'blood in the streets' if the 'toad' is condemned - and, he might not be - she has two nicknames which surfaced during the 'lavajato' investigation : “amante” (lover) and “coxa” (thigh)...they were aliases used by Odebrecht and OAS in the spreadsheets used to control the 'corruption', and were awarded to her by people who knew her pretty 'intimately'...the fact that she betrayed her husband, Paulo Bernardes (also an ex-Minister of Dilma's and accused in the 'lavajato') is no secret....so a woman with her well-earned reputation, does not deserve respect. But I suppose people have the right to love her, as many do CFK, and I have the right to not like her, and say it as it is.
And one last thing...EM talks of the elite being the culprit in Brazil...he should take note that 99% of politicians are in the 'elite'...including Lula & Gleisi
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jan 20th, 2018 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse -2“I have been accompanying his 'political' or rather, 'criminal' career, for over 40 years..”
With such expertise it should be breeze pointing to such activities that the press must have revealed. Or, is it just your bigotry speaking. If you can’t meet your burden, you have just revealed to all and sundry. That you’re simply a liar again. “Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynihan
“the fact that she betrayed her husband, Paulo Bernardes is no secret”
Jan 20th, 2018 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse +1You really care about that when they are *all* screwing the voters every day? If you had condemned her for the 'blood in the streets' thing, then I wouldn't have objected. I'd rather have a politician that cheats on their spouse than one that cheats the country.
So what's your opinion of Corbyn, given you don't know much about him?
Will this be a first? A convicted criminal or even a “suspected” convicted criminal “elected” as president?
Jan 21st, 2018 - 09:34 am - Link - Report abuse +1As I remember “recent” history, Hitler was a convicted criminal but had at least served his sentence before being appointed Chancellor and going on to bigger crimes.
Surely, most politicians get themselves into office before committing their crimes.
@Conqueror
Jan 21st, 2018 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse +2REF: “Surely, most politicians get themselves into office before committing their crimes”:
They need to get QUALIFIED to be the politicians by COMMITING crimes! REF:
https://i0.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Golpe-no-Getulio-e-no-Lula.png?resize=577%2C420&ssl=1
Wow a lot of hate here for Gleisi Hoffman, she must be doing something right ;) If Lula is barred, is there any chance she could run and win as his Campora style personal delegate? Better the “lover” than the “Tropical Trump”, surely...
Jan 21st, 2018 - 04:07 pm - Link - Report abuse -2@TH
Jan 22nd, 2018 - 01:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0“If you can't meet your burden...bla,bla,bla”...when are you going to change the record numbnuts ? Lost a good chance to keep your mouth shut.
@DT
I think you're missing the point...way above, if I'm not mistaken, you seem to have agreed with EM that my comments - calling Gleisi a slut - were, let's say, 'unfair' ? I only went on to clarify what is public knowledge - in Brazil, perhaps not in the UK ; her nicknames of 'amante“ and 'thighs' weren't given for no reason at all, and the fact that she put horns of her husband is just the icing on the cake. On the other hand, living in Brazil, and watching her wild accusations against anyone who 'dares' to oppose the PT, gives me a bit of credit to say what I did....you may not like it, but that does make it any less true. And why should I have to ”prefer“ a politician who cheats on her spouse, over person who cheats the country ? Sure the former is preferable, IF you HAD to choose, BUT can't I not like her for cheating the country AND not respect her because she is void of any decency ? And at least I'm prepared to justify what I say on here, differently to some.
Regarding Corbyn, I've only heard a few loose comments here and there, made by British friends, over drinks... since I consider myself an outsider on British politics, other than matters that make headlines here - and Corbyn doesn't - Id rather not talk about what I am not familiar with.
@BK
”..she must be doing something right ...“.....well, of course 'someone' is always going to think that. But if Lula runs, and wins, she could always be his mistress...after all, when his late wife was alive, he had several lovers...
”Better the “lover” than the “Tropical Trump”, surely...”....hardly comparable.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jan 22nd, 2018 - 11:12 am - Link - Report abuse -5“If you can't meet your burden...bla,bla,bla”
Thank you for proving to all and sundry, that you’re simply a liar again. But, thats no surprise as that is your modus operandi.
Play it C00L! Ultimately, The Most Favourite Crook will definitely be elected:
Jan 22nd, 2018 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse +1REF:
https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/1*hofocAsLlSnvntmXoOY7jg.jpeg
@JB
Jan 22nd, 2018 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse +1It was this bit I was agreeing with:
”An example is Jack, who can't hide his contempt for opponent politicians and comes up with a most vulgar and sexist expression in lieu of arguments (where are you now, Elaine?)”
(Including where is Elaine, though she hasn't been posting much.)
“after all, when his late wife was alive, he had several lovers...”
I suppose you didn't respect Lula anyway, but when you talk about him you complain about corruption and his policies, stuff that's obviously relevant to running the country.
Maybe I'm just jaded because SO many politicians have had affairs and been found out, but it doesn't seem that big a deal any more. There must be others in Brazil, what do you think of them? And if they want to sleep around without cheating then I think that's their own business.
Anyway, if you want to hear all about how wonderful Corbyn is you can just ask BK. ;)
Do you ALL really believe that the [supposed] “investigation” is surely NOT heading for the shredder?
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse +1https://i2.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/newtonsilva-1.jpg?zoom=0.8999999761581421&resize=564%2C424&ssl=1
@DT
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 06:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So calling Gleisi a slut, 'n insinuating “sh*t comes out of her mouth”, is vulgar 'n sexist ? 'vulgar' perhaps, not sexist..it has nothing to do with her sex, but with her character. But of course, EM, hidden away in Canada, must know her character well...or at least better than I do.
I never 'liked' Lula, being familiar with him from the 70's, but after 1 year in office, I became to tolerate him as the economy carried on ok...EVEN if more due to FHC handing him a favourable situation on a golden platter, and the commodity boom, than his own effort...but when the 'mensalão' scandal erupted in 2007, it became clear he was the same old Lula and back in the monkey business. And that, after having been elected based on claims he would put an end to all corruption. Well, who'd have thunk it ??
But just for the record - Lula abandoned his first wife (and daughter) in the 80's (presidential candidate Collor used this against him in 1990, and won) ; after that, he married Marisa Leticia, was elected to Congress (where he did absolutely nothing to justify his being elected), and then also abandoned M. Leticia to shack up with a TV Globo actress, Bete Mendes. Don't know who dropped who after a couple of years, but when he was elected end 2002, he brought back the dumb M.Leticia to create a halfway respectable image ; after Dilma got in, he carried on with her secretary in the presidential office in São Paulo...a Rosimeire Noronha, whom on many occasions, he took on official visits instead of his wife. In 2015, (I think), when this became public, Dilma was forced to fire Rosimeire, but not before Lula arranged her a USD 15,000/ month pension. While politicians' extra-marital affairs may not be “a big deal anymore”, and they aren't, they do become a big deal when supported by taxpayer money.
Renan Calheiros, ex-head of the Senate, is currently being charged by the SC, for supporting his lover and their kid, with public funds. Why not use his own money ?
@JB
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse +1I sympathize AND also share your TOTAL indignation.
On the “Practical-Side”:
#1: Be prepared to hear all sorts of Official Explanations; which will elaborately justify that Lula is NOT guilty - even though, by chance [and doubtfully] - the Ultimate Verdict turns out to be “Guilty”.
The situation is quite similar to the Official Justification that “the Armed-Forces are not at all necessary; to eliminate the Crime-Syndicates”.
#2: Who'll execute the sentence? Gilmar? Consider The Case as permanently closed, even BEFORE opening it!
#3: The Masses [WITH “balls”] are not YET born!
@:o))
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse +1At times I feel that explaining things, then having to justify them , is just a total waste of time.
@JB
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse +1It is sexist, no one calls men sluts, even if they screw around 20 times as much.
It is a real shame Lula did nothing about the corruption, and presumably joined in with it instead. He was working in the unions in the 70s, right? Did you hear about corruption then or was it just strikes and stuff?
“At times I feel that explaining things, then having to justify them, is just a total waste of time.”
It's not. I reckon if more people in America would talk to - and listen to - each other, instead of assuming the worst about the other 'side', they wouldn't have all the problems they do.
Your right DT, and for a practical example of sexism - I see JB never called Lula a slut...
Jan 23rd, 2018 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Irrespective of our convictions and political inclinations; Humpty Dumpty is GOING TO sit on the wall [AGAIN]! With THAT - like it or not, agree or not - ALL the charges & investigations are S00N going to D.I.S.A.P.P.E.A.R:
Jan 24th, 2018 - 10:15 am - Link - Report abuse +2REF:
https://jacobinmag.com/2017/07/lula-conviction-corruption-temer-neves-lava-jato
@DT
Jan 24th, 2018 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Regarding what you consider sexist, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I called her exactly what I think she is....I'm sorry if I coudn't find anything more politically correct to use when referring to her, but what would YOU call a woman who is a corrupt politician, AND sleeps around ? the fact she screwed around, by itself, is hardly relevant, but when her 'attitude' that she is above recrimination shines through in everything she does and says, she opens herself up to a whole lot of interpretations.
A few years after Lula had left the presidency of the metallurgy union, and was in politics, a few of his ex-companions let the cat out of the bag, and admitted that he was not above calling a strike, with the sole intention of then secretly negotiating the end of it, for personal gain. At the time, the office staff (that didn't strike) wondered how a strike could end so abruptly, for no apparent reason, i.e., without the factory workers having got what they were striking for. I was already aware of his antics because a family friend of ours, who was a director at one of Ford's factories, kept us well informed.
Just fyi...Lula's trial by the TRF-4 ended up with a 3 to 0 conviction, and his sentence increased from 9 1/2 years to 12 yrs and 1 month......time to celebrate !!!
“I was already aware of his antics because a family friend of ours, who was a director at one of Ford's factories, kept us well informed.”
Jan 24th, 2018 - 09:15 pm - Link - Report abuse -2But he'd have been biased and predisposed to look for the worst possible explanation for the strike, if he was the one being struck against, no? Understandably and naturally, I'm just saying his perspective wouldn't be gospel or the whole story.
“his sentence increased from 9 1/2 years to 12 yrs and 1 month......time to celebrate !!!”
That means he'd be about 80 when he gets out, or he could die in jail. Any chance of that actually happening without any moderation across the next 3 presidential terms, and if it does would that really be something to celebrate?!
@JB
Jan 24th, 2018 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse +1“what would YOU call a woman who is a corrupt politician, AND sleeps around ?”
The same thing I'd call a man who was a corrupt politician and sleeps around, I guess.
I already heard about Lula's appeal, and I knew you'd be happy. I don't know what to think, I can only look at the evidence second hand but it doesn't seem the most convincing. On the other side, if they had cleared him I'd be wondering whether he had made a deal with Temer and co to cover up all the corruption.
Regardless, having only Lula convicted when it's pretty clear how widespread the corruption was/is doesn't look good. Really does seem like a political move when the law is applied unevenly.
“admitted that he was not above calling a strike, with the sole intention of then secretly negotiating the end of it, for personal gain.”
I see. Although BK is right that your family friend wouldn't be exactly impartial about the man who was inconveniencing them with strikes. I assume he was never convicted of anything?
@DT
Jan 25th, 2018 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nicely sidestepped.
Unless you're prepared to read the process (or listened to it yday), you're unlikely to fully comprehend the accusations, or evidence presented. People love to insist “ah, there's no proof”...(?); believe me, if you'd accompanied the process over the last 2 years, you'd know that irrefutable proof WAS presented....just for one, how about 2 contracts (dated abt 2010), found in Lula's SBCampo apartment, one unsigned, the other signed by Lula's wife, for the purchase of an apartment in the 'Solaris' building ? this contract, which refers to the down payment towards the purchase of a flat, contained a gross attempt at scratching out the original flat number, being written over as flat 164A, the 'triplex' (after OAS took over).
Don't the several visits to the flat, by M.Leticia, (photographed w/ Lula, reg'd in OAS progress reports), 'n as late as Sept 2014, to meet up w/ Leo Pinheiro (OAS prez) to discuss the reforms (transform the duplex to triplex, add a pool, a private elevator fm the ground floor, a complete gourmet kitchen - which btw, identical to the one ordered for the Atibaia country home, which Lula claims “is not his”), 'suggest' ANYTHING, even to the “untrained” eye ? Could go on, but it's better if you read the process instead of speculating...
Keeping Temer out of jail, depends Congress, not the Law. So, not applied 'unevenly.
@BK & DT
“...BK is right that your family friend wouldn't be exactly impartial about the man...”; why would he be necessarily impartial ? after all, being a director of one of the factories , and being present at the meetings, why doubt his assessment of the situation, even IF he was being incovenienced by strikes ? I was only a trainee at Ford, so sharing the info with me would make no difference at all. Back then, no one was convicted. The timing of the facts speak for themselves.
“IF” Lula's eventually imprisoned, he 'could' be pardoned later...as to celebrating, everyone can do as they please.
“Nicely sidestepped”
Jan 26th, 2018 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse +2It is the truth, though.
And I'm not gonna read 9 hours worth of evidence, even if it is available in English somewhere (unlikely). I'll leave it to the journalists who are paid to do that. Wasn't Lula's explanation that he was supposed to be buying a different flat in he building, hence the contract and visits, which later fell through? But as you said I haven't looked at it first hand so don't really know.
“Keeping Temer out of jail, depends Congress, not the Law.”
True, but there must be other candidates who are not in office right now and could be prosecuted. Didn't at least one of Temer's ministers resign in order to stand in the coming elections?
As for your family friend, I'd say he would be predisposed to dislike Lula, and believe any rumours about him, especially if it let him say the strikes were called for personal benefit and therefore the business was in the right. That doesn't mean he was wrong, but I'd like to see some more evidence before believing it.
@DT
Jan 26th, 2018 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “there must be other candidates who are not in office right now and could be prosecuted”:
THAT; is NOT a capitalistic way of thinking [in other words; THAT, is the Communist within you!]
Why do you ALWAYS have to grumble; against the petty thieves - just because they struggle to make the two ends meet?
Stealing - which is their “Birth-Right” (tradition & culture; seeping deep into their DNA) - the Daily Bread is not even THEIR fault! REF:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-h4kYKTm5Fho/T39S_4rLaaI/AAAAAAAABM4/FoOqTdKSbE0/s1600/charge_mn_04_04_2012.jpg
@DT
Jan 26th, 2018 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“And I'm not gonna read 9 hours worth of evidence. I'll leave it to the journalists who are paid to do that. Wasn't Lula's explanation that he was supposed to be buying a different flat in he building, hence the contract and visits, which later fell through?”
In your case, agree it's an ungrateful task to sift through 9 hours of legal procceedings, but the problem is, that milions of others, don't give a damn what's in the process....and depending on their ideological predisposition, they'll defend an indefensible position. The leftist press here, seems to wallow in ommitting, or denying such proof in their reports, and who relies exclusively on their coverage is very likely to come to the wrong conclusions.
The contracts, initially signed with Bancoop (a coop of federal employees, formed to finance homes) referred to one of the typical flats in the condo, but when Bancoop went bust - thanks to Joao Vaccari (PT treasurer), the project was passed to OAS, whose president, Leo Pinheiro, in return for 'favours' rendered, agreed to change the flat for one of the duplex', and modify it according to Marisa Leticia's desires. The photos and proof presented in the process, all refer to flat 164A. It only “fell through” because the Lavajato jailed Leo Pinheiro in Nov 2014, when the keys were to be handed over to M.Leticia.
The 'other candidates', that are in office now, are all politicians in Congress and are still protected from prosecution of any kind, except if initiated by the STF....the backlog of cases in the STF makes sure they never come to fruition.
Personal predisposition to dislike Lula, or not, has nothing to do with the negotiations that used to take place, and determined the sequence of events. The fact that Lula rose from a mere factory worker, to union leader, to millionaire, can't just be swept under the carpet as being 'normal', specially when the facts were notorious and later became public knowledge.
It's up to you to believe it or not.
TIME TO CELEBRATE!
Jan 27th, 2018 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/OLIVEIRA-170315-Face-580x373.jpg
AMAZING, ISN'T IT? THE COUNTRY OBVIOUSLY IS OVER-POPULATED WITH THE _________________!!!
@JB
Jan 28th, 2018 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse +1It sounds like a rather complicated sequence of events, and unfortunately I don't think I really trust Brazil's justice system. Even in the UK with jury trials the police have been known to fake the evidence to make it more convincing, and a lot of the Brazilian judges seem to be more than a tad biased. Most of the English language papers don't make it sound very convincing either, so I just don't know.
“The fact that Lula rose from a mere factory worker, to union leader, to millionaire, can't just be swept under the carpet as being 'normal'”
How much money could he legitimately make as a union leader and then politician? Assuming he didn't spend it all but invested it sensibly. And did his wife have any money?
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!