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Carnage at Florida school: expelled student opens fire and kills at least 17

Thursday, February 15th 2018 - 09:08 UTC
Full article 25 comments

Police said a former student opened fire at a Florida high school on Wednesday, killing at least 17 people and sending scores of students fleeing into the streets in the nation's deadliest school shooting since a gunman attacked an elementary school in Newtown, Conn. The shooter, who was equipped with a gas mask and smoke grenades, set off a fire alarm to draw students out of their classrooms shortly before the school day ended, officials said. Read full article

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  • golfcronie

    Another tragic shooting, when will the US authorities realise that guns KILL.

    Feb 15th, 2018 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Jack Bauer

    GC
    Agree the shooting was another stupid and predictable tragedy.
    But allow me to disagree on one point....people kill...guns are just the means. In the UK, where apparently you have the most stringent gun laws in the world, perps resort to knives....maybe we should ban knives as well...what are your thoughts on that ?

    Feb 15th, 2018 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Remember: guns don't kill people, Americans kill people.

    “maybe we should ban knives as well”

    Don't worry, our government has. It's illegal to carry a knife without a good reason here (except small penknives), and certain knives are banned altogether. Of course knives have other uses so they can't ban them altogether, but it is markedly harder to kill lots of people with a knife. Just compare the death tolls of attacks in the UK and US and you'll see the difference.

    Of course the UK is an island which makes the laws much easier to enforce, but I daresay the US could make it harder for children to obtain semi-automatic rifles without having to ban guns altogether.

    The really sad thing is that events like this are no longer very shocking, we've got so used to hearing about them, and I suppose we will go on hearing about them as long as Americans remain in denial.

    Feb 15th, 2018 - 10:19 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Wyvern

    Let me give you Brits a hint. We will not be giving up our 2nd Amendment rights (or any other rights) just because you think we should.

    I will give you another heads up. I read somewhere, maybe here, that England wants to have a free trade agreement with the US.Under the Trump administration there will be no agreement unless Americans rights are respected. That means that Americans who come from those states that allow conceal carry will be able to conceal carry in England as well.

    Feb 15th, 2018 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • The Voice

    Wyvern, in your dreams…. pigs might fly too. Pistols are banned in Britain, no one can carry one or own one in their home and shotguns and rifles are licenced. No one can own an automatic weapon. This all applies to all visitors too. Your assertion that this is somehow a condition of a trade deal is fantasy. Brits hate guns.

    We think you should do somethng and so do many Americans that I know too. The fact that you allow lunatics to own guns results in the wholesale slaughter of many innocent kids. Do you think that is acceptable? Your gun laws are crap, written by big (gun) business. The wild west died a hundred years ago.

    Feb 16th, 2018 - 09:49 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    OK, agree it's kind of dfficult to commit mass murder with a knife, but the fact that certain types of knives are banned as well, makes sense.

    @Wyvern
    But getting back to the US gun laws. I am basically opposed to government interfering in people's private lives, but when decisions, such as buying guns which can , and many times do, affect others who have nothing to do with those decisions, are left up to the individual, without any kind of background check, things can get a bit hairy, as we've just seen ; while I think there is plenty of room to improve the law without giving up the 'right' of a person to defend themselves, I fail to see why someone needs to own an AR-15 (or similar)...if the spirit of owning a gun is to be able to defend yourself (in your home - or even in the street , if circumstances justified it), wouldn't a handgun be sufficient ?

    Feb 16th, 2018 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    So far in 2018 there have been 30 mass shootings in the US, thats 84 dead and many more injured in just 6 weeks.
    https://www.massshootingtracker.org/data

    Feb 16th, 2018 - 05:56 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    Things like flick knives and concealed knives are completely banned in the UK. Stuff like carving knives are legal to own but you're not allowed to carry them around with you. There is still a fair amount of knife crime though, especially among teenagers.

    RE the US, compare gun ownership to owning a car, which can also kill people. Every car is registered with the government, you need a licence to drive one, you must have insurance, and all cars must meet certain safety standards.

    But I doubt you'll get much sense out of Wyvern, she is obviously completely out of touch with reality. Concealed carry as the result of a trade deal? That's at least 25 times as stupid as saying England has any Malvinas.

    Feb 16th, 2018 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    It boils down to the fact that in the US, firearms with power far in excess of their requirement for self-defense, are available to just about anyone, and today, seems to have very little to do with original spirit of the 2nd amendment.

    Feb 16th, 2018 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Wyvern

    No trade deal for you. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

    Feb 17th, 2018 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Olen

    We need to stop this deterioration of our society by returning prayer to our classrooms. Only then will these shootings stop.

    Feb 17th, 2018 - 02:32 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • JDB

    @Jack Bauer

    The text of the 2nd Amendment is

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    Referring to the text which aspect of modern firearms violate either the meaning or spirit of the 2nd Amendment?

    “Remember Ruby Ridge!”

    Feb 17th, 2018 - 07:54 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    “Ruby Ridge was the site of an eleven-day siege near Naples, Idaho, U.S. ”

    ”Following a Marshals Service reconnoiter of the Weaver property pursuant to a bench warrant for Weaver after his failure to appear on firearms charges, an initial encounter between six US marshals and the Weavers resulted in a shootout and the deaths of Deputy US Marshal William Francis Degan, age 42, the Weavers' son Samuel (Sammy), age 14, and Weaver's family dog (Striker). In the subsequent siege of the Weaver residence, led by the FBI, Weaver's 43-year-old wife Vicki was killed by FBI sniper fire.”

    So three people died in a completely pointless and unnecessary fight which would never have happened if the family hadn't had those weapons? Seems like another good reason to limit gun ownership.

    @JB
    Interesting how this topic brings the crazies out of the woodwork, isn't it? I suspect Olen is a troll, but it's cute that Wyvern thinks her opinion matters.

    Feb 17th, 2018 - 10:26 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Jack Bauer

    @JDB
    Thanks for posting the text, but it is the “spirit” under which the 2nd amendment was written over 200 years ago that I was referring to....back then, there was good reason for the militias, as well as for normal citizens to own arms....but times have changed ; Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating the ban on firearms - so much so that I own a couple myself, bought legally and after a thorough background check - but surely the law can be adapted to reflect current times and circumstances, in such a way that it maintains the people's right to defend themselves, as well as the right of people to not get shot up by some crazy idiot...allowing ownership of submachine guns because of isolated incidents, and caused by fanatics, hardly justifies the cause.

    Feb 17th, 2018 - 10:36 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • JDB

    @Jack Bauer

    Militias are a different issue, but as long as you have brought them up if the students at this school had formed an armed militia then these killings would not have happened. Americans exercising our rights are our greatest defenders of Liberty.

    Feb 18th, 2018 - 08:44 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    Are you seriously suggesting sending a bunch of hormonal, immature teenagers to school carrying guns? There's no way THAT could possibly go wrong.

    Feb 18th, 2018 - 11:06 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Jack Bauer

    @JDB
    What if one of sudents who was part of the so-called 'school militia' sudenly went beserk and shot up some of his colleagues before he was killed ? what I'm saying is that the law should be “adapted” to reflect the rule and not the exception....why not have the police patrol the schools ?
    But I don't see any action being taken, in either direction ... as for every argument that can be presented in favour of guns, there'll be one against it.

    Feb 19th, 2018 - 12:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Skip

    Guns don't kill, people kill!

    They'll use knives!

    What a load of BS! Seriously, in 2018, adults still believe this stupidity?

    I sometimes wonder how many children in America have to die before the country wakes up to the sheer idiocy of widespread gun ownership.

    You aren't a well-armed militia.... your government will always outgun you. All your well-armed militia is doing at the moment is shooting up innocent people at the cinema or at concerts or gunning down children in the classroom.

    Thankfully we learnt our lesson and when we vowed to prevent it happening again, we actually did.

    Feb 19th, 2018 - 02:03 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • PHunter

    The Americans will never learn. They are sick. They have the liberty disease.

    Feb 19th, 2018 - 02:27 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • JDB

    @Jack Bauer

    Then the militia will take out him / her.

    What you are saying is that American Liberty should be extinguished. That will not happen!

    Remember Ruby Ridge!

    Feb 19th, 2018 - 07:04 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Jack Bauer

    @JDB
    No, I am not saying American Liberty should be extinguished...far from it. Just in favour of 'hand gun' ownership for self defence - provided a legal purchase and the owner knows how to use it - and a bit more control over who can buy or carry around an assault rifle. No need to twist my words.

    Feb 19th, 2018 - 03:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    It would be totally impractical to ban guns in the US anyway, but you could reduce the number of people killed in mass shootings by restricting who can own semi-automatic weapons, and also stuff like speed loaders that let you spray out a lot of bullets in a short time. Have them available at shooting ranges, but don't let people keep then at home. More stringent background checks wouldn't go amiss either.

    And Skip is right, the US government will always outgun private citizens. Believing you are Rambo is a good way to get yourself and your innocent family members pointlessly killed, not to mention cops who are just doing their jobs.

    I notice that the kids who survived the massacre are now marching to ask for gun control, not demanding to be allowed to carry guns in school themselves. Evidently they have more sense than the adults around them.

    Feb 19th, 2018 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Skip

    Guns for self defence..... another fallacy!

    They aren’t.

    If gun ownership reduced crime then the US would have the lowest crime rate in the developed world, not the highest.

    A gun kept kept for self defence is more likely to be used by a child to blow his brains out than anything else.

    Another idiocy we got rid of. Guns cannot he used for self defence in Australia. Guns can be owned for very specific purposes only: sport or by farmers. But never for self defence. You can’t even brandish them threateningly.

    All the NRA’s scare campaigning and misinformation can’t deny that our crime rate is lower.

    The 2nd amendment is an historical legacy that serves no modern purpose except as rally point to deny the current reality.

    Feb 19th, 2018 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    I also wanted to say that there are limits on the 1st amendment in order to prevent people harming others - such as the famous 'shouting fire in a crowded theatre' - without American Liberty being extinguished. Why should the 2nd amendment be any different?

    @Skip
    The high crime rate is clearly not just due to the guns though - the US has a higher non-gun murder rate than most European countries have total murder rate. It's something about the Americas; all the countries on that continent have more or less alarming crime rates, apart from Canada perhaps. And Canadians have guns, but they don't fetishize them like many Americans do, or keep them for self defence in general.

    Feb 20th, 2018 - 10:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @Skip
    “Guns for self defence..... another fallacy!”
    Your above statement may ring true to someone who has no clue what they are talking about. If you live in a country where a ban on firearms has been implemented and is (truly) effective, eg., Australia, then owning a gun makes no sense.....but how about living in a country where there are millions of illegal firearms in the hands of the 'bad guys' and public safety provided by the state is virtually non-existent ? eg., quite a few places in Brazil.
    Your lack of knowledge on the reality in some (other or 3rd world) countries is obvious, as is your shortsightedness.

    “...is more likely to be used by a child to blow his brains out...”...have you ever heard of something like “keeping guns locked up ?”....didn't think so.
    And it is the insignificant minority, numberwise, that brandishes a gun publicly or on the internet...
    Might be a good idea to become familiar with the reality of other countries, before simply judging them by the standards in yours.

    Feb 20th, 2018 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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