MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Rajoy suggests future dialogue with Gibraltar
Spain will not use the Brexit negotiations to pursue its sovereignty aspirations, Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy said on Thursday during a press conference in which he also appeared to signal his government’s readiness to engage in dialogue with Gibraltar. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesSovereignty issue?
Mar 24th, 2018 - 10:16 am - Link - Report abuse +2Did the Government of Spain give Gibraltar to Britain again in 1907?
1907 Pact of Cartagena (1 pg):
https://www.academia.edu/34266093/Gibraltar_-1907_Pact_of_Cartagena
History is an inconvenient truth for people of Spanish origin.
Mar 24th, 2018 - 02:22 pm - Link - Report abuse +5Rajoy......Gibralta want NOTHING to do with Spain....just as the Falkland Islands want Nothing to do with Argentina.....What is it that you Spicks dont seem to understand....???
Mar 24th, 2018 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse +5Comment removed by the editor.
Mar 25th, 2018 - 03:54 am - Link - Report abuse -5@LarissaN (Hepatitis)
Mar 25th, 2018 - 08:57 am - Link - Report abuse +3How often do you have to be told? To my mind, there are at least FIVE reasons.
(1) MercoPress has a section called International.
(2) Spain is well known for stealing territory. Portugal used to be part of Spain and Spain still tries to steal its territory.
(3) South America is, for the most part, a Spanish province. Although it tries to cover it up.
(4) Spain is much like argieland. Stupid.
(5) Because, apparently, it annoys you.
Got it now?
Conquerer
Mar 25th, 2018 - 04:45 pm - Link - Report abuse +2You may have noticed from other threads that I am totally supportive of the Falkland Islands people and I believe the Argentine claims to be nonsensical and that they should be totally dismissed.
However, as an “hispanófilo” and son of a “Rock Scorpion” I must protest your points 2, 3, and 4.
2 - is false. Just read a decent history of Iberia where you will find that the Iberian nations, on and off, were one nation for several centuries - Spain never “stole” anything. There were skirmishes between the two nations.
3 - is nonsense. I have lived and worked in Spain and four Latin American republics for long periods and Spain is “chalk” and the Latin America is “cheese”. There are major language differences between the Castellano of Iberia and the language spoken in Latin America. And any influence of Spain in Latin America is minimal. The USA is far more influential than Spain has ever been or ever will be.
4 Spain has nothing in common with Argentina EXCEPT they both have a claim on British territories. BUT, the backgrounds to the Spanish claim to Gibraltar and the Argentine claim to the Falkland archipelago are totally different.
However, I do recognise that the majority of Iberian immigrants into Argentina were from Galicia in northwest Spain - indeed, people of Spanish descent in Argentina are all affectionately described as “gallegos”
“Spain never “stole” anything”
Mar 25th, 2018 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not quite true. Spain stole Olivenza from Portugal during the Napoleonic wars, and still haven't given it back, despite signing a treaty saying they will “endeavour with the mightiest conciliatory effort to return Olivenza to Portuguese authority.”
Portugal doesn't kick up the amount of fuss that Spain does over Gibraltar, though.
Demon Tree
Mar 26th, 2018 - 05:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Olivenza had slipped my mind as it has become a very minor matter in relations between the two Iberian nations. It rarely comes up.
The question is why is this piece appearing in Mercopenguin, a British government propaganda organ supposedly devoted to America, South America and the “South Atlantic”?
Mar 26th, 2018 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse -3Liv - clearly you are unable to read English too well! This item has been published by Mercopress under the heading “International” as it is an international news item. Nabo!
Mar 26th, 2018 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Gordo1, it's clearly a bot spamming those comments. No point replying, better to just 'Report abuse' so they can be removed.
Mar 26th, 2018 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So the next time Spain says Gib is the only remaining colonial situation in Europe, we know they are lying....but as someone who lives in Portugal, I think they are Adult enough to realise that after such a long amount of time, the people of Olivenza are Spanish and don't want to be Portuguese, so they leave it alone. But just to get their own back, they let Gib play all their Qualifiers in the Estadio do Algarve as their home ground.
Mar 26th, 2018 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse +2It's not a lie, it's just irrelevant. Spain wouldn't be any happier if Gibraltar was part of the UK like Olivenza is now part off Spain. Well, perhaps they'd be a *little* happier if Gib was also forced to levy UK taxes, but the two things do not necessarily go together.
Mar 26th, 2018 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No DT it is a lie, they always say that Gib is the last colonial situation in Europe, which is a lie.....or do you know something we don't....
Mar 26th, 2018 - 05:52 pm - Link - Report abuse +1I should be the one asking that. What other 'colonial situation' is there in Europe?
Mar 26th, 2018 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There are no colonial situations within Europe are there. Ceuta & Melilla are in Africa.
Mar 27th, 2018 - 01:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Northern Ireland...?
Mar 27th, 2018 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Arguably Ulster was the first British colony...
Arguably it was, but I don't think it qualifies today. Spain would say Ceuta and Melilla are not colonies, but under Argentina's particular definition I think they probably are. Still not in Europe, though.
Mar 27th, 2018 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I wonder if James Marshall will be back to clarify?
DT, I stated that 'Spain said', not what is actual reality, just what Spain thinks.....Which according to their criteria they themselves have a colonail enclave in Europe......
Mar 28th, 2018 - 09:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0What do you imagine Spain's criteria are that could possibly make Olivenza a colonial enclave? It's just part of Spain now.
Mar 28th, 2018 - 10:11 am - Link - Report abuse +1El capitano 1
Mar 28th, 2018 - 11:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Gibralta want NOTHING to do with Spain” Where is “Gibralta”? Sure a “lanito” would know how to spell the name of his homeland!
And if as you say “Gibralta want NOTHING to do with Spain” why do many “lanitos” have homes in La Linea de la Concepcion and other locations in la Provincia de Cadiz?
DT, well the same criteria they use themselves regarding Gibraltar,. Olivenza was stolen off another sovereign nation, so it does not belong to Spain, but should, using The Spanish argument for GiB, belong to Portugal.
Mar 28th, 2018 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That is a hypocritical argument, no? Spain stole land but will not give it back to Portugal, but want GB to hand over land that Spain have no legal right to.
I am not sure what you do not understand?
@JM
Mar 28th, 2018 - 01:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, I see where the misunderstanding comes from now. That is not the criteria they use for Gibraltar, they say it's a colony because it's a non-self governing territory, and they say their enclaves in Morocco are not colonies because they are part of Spain which get to vote in national elections, as Olivenza does too.
What is hypocritical, is that they complain about Gib being a colony, but they really don't care whether it is self-governing or not. They only care because it was stolen in a war and they want it back. If they were honest about their motives, the similarity to Olivenza would become obvious.
Demon Tree
Mar 29th, 2018 - 01:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Demon Tree
“They only care because it was stolen in a war and they want it back.” WRONG!
Gibraltar was ceded to Britain in perpetuity under the terms of the Treaty of Utrecht by which the War of the Spanish Succession came to an end.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Spanish_Succession
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Spanish_Succession
Because they were forced to cede it in a war, and they want it back, if that's what you prefer Gordo1.
Mar 29th, 2018 - 09:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Demon Tree
Mar 29th, 2018 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No - that is not the case. The War of the Spanish Succession was very complicated and basically involved efforts to prevent France “taking over” Spain to form one powerful country.
It lasted for 14 years and was precipitated by the death of the Spanish king, Charles II, without an heir. He willed his kingdom to Philip of Anjou, Louis' grandson with which, of course, the other great European players disagreed.
The Treaty of Utrecht was signed in 1713 and brought to an end the War of Spanish Succession between England and France. The immediate aims of Britain and the rest were achieved when the French were driven from the Spanish Netherlands and Italy, and the crowns of Spain and France failed to be united.
The prevention of this merger was rewarded by Gibraltar being ceded to England IN PERPETUITY by the Spanish crown i.e. King Phillip V.
DT, totally irrelevant what designations they give Olivenza etc, it is merely a name or title They were stolen, (which was not the case for either Gibraltar or the Falklands).
Mar 29th, 2018 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you think for one moment that Spain or Argentina would stop their moaning if the Uk suddenly make those territories part of the mainland Uk and gave them a seat in Westminster.....That would give the territories even less autonomy...
@gordo1
Mar 29th, 2018 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's not at all what I learned. England and Holland invaded and took Gibraltar during the war of Spanish Succession, and then Britain demanded the new Spanish King hand it over in the peace treaty, among other conditions such as permanently renouncing his claim to the French throne (which as you said was the main point of the war).
Britain had supported the rival claimant Archduke Charles of Austria, so the new King Philip V would hardly have wanted to reward us.
@JM
“Do you think for one moment that Spain or Argentina would stop their moaning if the Uk suddenly make those territories part of the mainland Uk and gave them a seat in Westminster.”
Of course I don't, that's what I've been saying all along!
Demon Tree
Mar 30th, 2018 - 03:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0You have read the wrong history books - IMHO!
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