MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Death of Brazilian black woman activist and councillor remains unsolved
Shadowy criminal gangs operating in Rio de Janeiro are the chief suspects in last month's murder of Marielle Franco, a prominent black rights activist and city councilor, a government minister said on Monday. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rules“Shadowy criminal gangs operating in Rio de Janeiro are the chief suspects in last month's murder of Marielle Franco…. “The most likely hypothesis is that it was done by the Rio de Janeiro militias,” Public Security Minister Raul Jungmann told CBN radio.
Apr 17th, 2018 - 11:23 am - Link - Report abuse -2Rubbish, the bullets that killed her have been identified as police issued
@TH:
Apr 17th, 2018 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse +1The “partnership” between politicians & the Drug-Cartels will ensure that the case remains unsolved - FOREVER!
DO YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH THAT?
@Terence LulaLiar Hill
Apr 17th, 2018 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Rubbish, the bullets that killed her have been identified as police issued”...
Is that as far as your little brain can see ? The ammo was bought from CBC for the Federal Police in Brasilia, in 2006, and part of it then distributed to other regional offices. This lot in particular was stolen from inside the head post office in Paraiba, most probably by corrupt cops with connections to the Rio militias. The bullets that were used in the assassination of a judge (Patricia Accioli) in 2011 came from the same lot.
You really ought to get your facts right before opening your blow hole.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Apr 18th, 2018 - 12:34 am - Link - Report abuse -2If you believe that then I’ve got some great property in Florida for sale.
I get furious at “white” pe0ple referring tho afro-americans as “blacks.” and even worse when mixed race people are referred to as “blacks”. This woman is of mixed race. In Brazil she is a “mulata” a respected title. Why is Obama called “black”? HE is as much “black” as “White”. So was Marielle Franco. Why are we so discriminatory?
Apr 18th, 2018 - 01:25 am - Link - Report abuse -1“Shadowy criminal gangs operating in Rio de Janeiro are the chief suspects in last month's murder of Marielle Franco.”
Apr 18th, 2018 - 03:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh come on MP. Marielle was a social activist, highly critical of Michel Temer's recent 'smart' move to send the military to patrol Rio streets, especially the favelas.
One month after Marielle's death, and nothing has happened as I suspected from the beginning.
The facts the bullets that killed Marielle had been denounced as “stolen” does not prove anything--it only made them available for “special missions” such as the killings reported.
In addition, on April 8, community activist Carlos Alexandre Pereira, was found dead, riddled with bullets. Pereira was a volunteer community advisor in Taquara for councilman Marcello Siciliano, and was killed two days after Siciliano spoke to investigators regarding the murder of Marielle and her driver Anderson Gomes.
Those murders, and the obvious impunity that goes along, are a customary way to send a message to opponents: “don't open your mouth, don't do anything or else.”
Let's hope real democracy takes hold in Brazil and justice is done for Marielle and all the other social advocates. In the current situation, hope is faint.
REF: “Death of Brazilian black woman activist and councilor remains unsolved”:
Apr 18th, 2018 - 02:33 pm - Link - Report abuse +2This has NOTHING to do the Skin-Color, Race, Gender, Nationality, Status, Beliefs of an Individual, Creed, etc. A crime had been committed and it looks very much as if [it's quite likely that] the Law-Enforcement, Political Leaders, Investigators & the Culprits are on the SAME side.
@Terence Lula Liar Hill
Apr 19th, 2018 - 02:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0you claim ”the bullets that killed her have been identified as police issued”...
And I said nothing different...just gave you the path the bullets trailed until reaching the 'milicias' in Rio...but that is far too difficult for your wee brain to understand, isn't it ?
Just fyi, as looks like you don't know - although I've said this several times - the 'milicia' members are cops and ex-cops.....and rivals of the drug gangs.
@EM
do you really belive that Michele Temer is behind Marielle's death ????? and just for YOUR info, the 'smart' move was approved by 87% of Rio's residents.....including the 'favela' residents. Stop spreading fake news. That is just the rhetoric of the radical lefties, to whom the worse the situation, the better.
Of course the bullets used, or the capsules found at the crime scene haven't proved anything - yet - but if they can get prints off the capsules they might find who shot her, or who at least loaded the weapons......could be a lead.
I think that IF they do find the killers, it will be a great disappointment to you, because then you might have to admit that Temer had nothing to do with it.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Apr 19th, 2018 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse -2“Terence Lula Liar Hill” Says one who cannot meet his BoP, and has such impeccable credentials.
Whereas your untruths are so common place.
JB “Your insistence that I'm a fascist”
Brazil's corruption scandals reach Lula da Silva: ...
12 Jack Bauer; “..'Military dictatorship', ..history is showing,.. that it was good for Brazil
“The idea that toilet paper cannot be flushed down toilets, is true in only 'parts”
Is absolutely false as besides myself, four other sites have confirmed. While as usual you cannot produce any support for your claim, which therefore confirms your assertion is untrue.
http://en.mercopress.com/2017/07/20/ex-brazilian-president-assets-and-bank-accounts-frozen/comments#comment471252
@Terence Lula Liar Hill
Apr 19th, 2018 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I knew it ! when you're caught out, you resort to going off at a tangent, or to changing the subject, repeating all your SOS - as you have nothing new to offer.
Btw, what I said about the bullets etc, is all over the news and can be found on the internet....if you want to be mouth fed, suggest you intern yourself in an asylum.
But keep on reading the PT's and other leftist sites to get your (des)information...
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Apr 20th, 2018 - 12:52 am - Link - Report abuse -1“When you're caught out” You certainly are Ollie You’re calling me a liar with absolutely no proof, and I’ve just shown two instances where there is irrefutable proof that you’re the only proven liar here. You can claim what want, but she was killed with police issued bullets, there is no proof that anyone other than the police could have been involved. In spite of unproven speculation to the contrary. “if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's a duck”
At it's BEST; the so-called 100% proofs [evidence] - as always - are sketchy AND are intentionally misleading; so that in the end [if there IS an “end”]; the crooks can go scot-free; to close the case permanently.
Apr 20th, 2018 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse +1@Terence Lulla Liar Hill
Apr 20th, 2018 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Get someone to read your post to you....if you didn't know you were the author, you'd think it was pure BS.
“killed with police issued bullets”.....so by that we must presume that the Federal Police are not police....well done, numb nuts.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Apr 20th, 2018 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse -2There only proven liar is yourself, as I have shown with thread title and URL.
Yes! She was killed by police bullets. So you can twist and squirm all you want. But as a person with absolutely no credibility
Theres nothing valid you can offer that will change that reality.
WHY blame the crooks when the population itself is the MAIN culprit?
Apr 21st, 2018 - 11:41 am - Link - Report abuse +2http://www.chargeonline.com.br/php/DODIA//paixao.jpg
@Terence Lulla Hill, and confused Liar
Apr 21st, 2018 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse -1You claim : “Yes! She was killed by police bullets”...
'police bullets'...from a batch bought by the “Federal” Police in 2006...as explained above, and with no one squirming. Or don't you know that bullets manufactured (in this case by CBC, only ammo manufacturer in Brazil) for exclusive use by police forces can be traced back to a particular lot (and when purchased) because of the capsule markings ?
For someone who claims to have worked in the military (falsely claimed, no doubt), you appear to know nothing about firearms and ammunition...caught out again numb nuts !
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Apr 21st, 2018 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse -2“’police bullets'...from a batch bought by the “Federal” Police in 2006...as explained above” The implausable and unlikely scenario that they were stolen by unidentified person(s).
Like I said if you accept that, then I’ve got some land in Florida that might be of interest to you. Ammunition storage is in an armoury where there I strict guidelines to prevent such a claimed occurrence from happening.
@Terence Lulla Hill, confused and confirmed Liar
Apr 21st, 2018 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse -1In the same way that the ammo (bought by the Feds) was in fact stolen - (probably by members of the Federal police itself - and who knows if they are still unidentified ? besides, wouldn't be the type of crime to make headlines in Brazil, especially during Lula's presidency) - where do you think the dynamite used by criminals to blow up ATM's all over Brazil, comes from ? the same dynamite, like any other explosive, that is supposed to be controlled by the army, “following ”strict guidelines” ? (guidelines that demand the quarries keep it safe, under lock and key).
When are you going to learn that “strict guidelines” are what are most disrespected in this country....which, IF you had lived here, you would know. But you don't...
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Apr 21st, 2018 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“Terence Lulla Hill, confused and confirmed Liar” I’m neither, nor can you meet your burden and prove. Whereas I’ve proved by your own posts that you are in fact a confirmed liar. “strict guidelines” Means there is a “chain of evidence” and one on who’s “watch” it disappeared is now an accessory to murder. But I’m talking about a jurisdiction that follows the rule of law, not the “primitive legal system” in Brazil.
At least ONE thing is for SURE - ALL the crooks are NOT politicians [but what about the “vice versa”?]
Apr 22nd, 2018 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse +1A lot of discussion over the bullets that killed Marielle Franco.
Apr 22nd, 2018 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Meanwhile, there cannot be speculation over the fact that, after a month, Marielle's executioners run free as living proof of the incapacity or unwillingness of Brazil's justice system. Of course, finding the material authors of the crime would increase the chances of finding those who commissioned Marielle's assassination.
Even worse, the fact this crime remains unsolved becomes a warning to those following Marielle's example, opposing a government bent on keeping the Brazil of wealth concentration, favelas, beaches, sbirs and Carnaval.
@TH
Apr 22nd, 2018 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Pointless as usual, you're talking about Brazil but you're not talking about Brazil?
@JB
I was thinking about Aécio Neves. He's accused of obstructing justice, so what would have happened if he'd won the last election? I reckon there's a good chance the Lava jato would have disappeared without trace...
RE Sixty Brazilian members of Congress...
Think the NE goes beyond conservative, the term doesn't usually refer to feudalism. I can see why anyone would want to get out of the place. And I've plenty of times heard of countries objecting to illegal immigration, but never of states trying to stop internal migration. Surely turning away immigrants from within Brazil isn't legal? How cold can it get in the south of Brazil anyway? The most southerly point is on the same latitude as north Africa in the northern hemisphere.
@Terence Lula Hill, confused and confirmed LIAR
Apr 22nd, 2018 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Nice try, but won't work. Can't just wiggle out of your 'mistake of fact' by claiming you 'meant' something else.
@EM
“...who commissioned Marielle's assassination”. You can't let go of the conspiracy theory, can you ? I think it's far more straightforward - while I don't KNOW who the actual killers are (or in whose name they may have acted,) any more than you do, I think one needs to look at whom she was hurting most with her campaign against police violence in Rio - I'd say both the police as well as the “milicias”. And, just fyi, she was already actively participating in denouncing police violence (and collecting enemies) as early as 2008...only 10, repeat 10 years before the military 'intervention' started.
Violence in Rio, perpetrated by the Police, the 'milicias', and the drug gangs go back to well before Marielle.
Your futile attempt to blame Temer for her death, directly or indirectly, is the same as trying to blame him for the 2014 crisis (caused by Dilma, with Lula's help) while he was only a 'decorative' VP.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Apr 22nd, 2018 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Pointless as usual is your opining, as you’re unable to point to any part of my post that is factually incorrect. But, to put you into proper perspective, your exalted view of your own opinions.
“I managed to have a perfectly sensible argument with Roger Lorton in a different thread, with no irrelevant quotes or whining about the burden of proof. That's because RL actually knows what he's talking about, even though he was wrong about the article in question.”
You’re so deluded, I ran into that thread you had been given seven, eight, plus more negative votes. Guess you’re a star in your own mind as you didn’t get a very good audience rating. http://en.mercopress.com/2018/03/29/falklands-argentine-professor-visits-stanley-and-offers-proposal-to-end-the-dispute/comments#comment485242
Aww, dimwit Terry thinks truth is determined by democracy. If 99/100 people don't believe in gravity, planes still fly, and you still die if you jump off a cliff. This is why I like physics; it's so clear cut, and absolutely works whether you believe in it or not.
Apr 22nd, 2018 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@JB
Actually that kinda supports EM's theory. If she's been campaigning against police violence and militias for 10 years, why was she only killed now, after complaining about the military intervention? Either way, there aren't good odds for her murder being solved, when the people supposed to investigate it are the main suspects.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Apr 22nd, 2018 - 09:42 pm - Link - Report abuse -2I don’t have wiggle since the onus is entirely yours not mine.
“Establishing the “burden of proof” – determining who made the initial claim and is thus responsible for providing evidence why his/her position merits acceptance.
For the one carrying the “burden of proof”, the advocate, to marshal evidence for his/her position in order to convince or force the opponent's acceptance. The method by which this is accomplished is producing valid, sound, and cogent arguments, devoid of weaknesses, and not easily attacked.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentation_theory
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Dimwit DemonTree thinks truth is determined solely by his personal opining, with no requirement too furnish proof.
This is why I like evidence or argument of establishing a fact or the truth of a statement; it's so clear cut, and absolutely works whether you believe in it or not.
Well then, Terry, why don't you find some evidence or argument showing I'm wrong, rather than relying on heavily biased votes on a website?
Apr 22nd, 2018 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unfortunately evidence and argument only force an opponent's acceptance what that opponent is smart enough to understand then and honest enough to admit they are wrong, neither of which is true of you. It's an absolute joke to say you like evidence or argument, the only thing you like or listen to is the sound of your own voice, and the only evidence you care about is what agrees with you.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Apr 22nd, 2018 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse -2“Well then, Terry, why don't you find some evidence or argument showing I'm wrong”
There is no such requirement since you’re the one claiming success, since the onus is entirely yours not mine. Whilst Vox populi shows the overwhelming majority reject your self-serving opinion.
“Establishing the “burden of proof” – determining who made the initial claim and is thus responsible for providing evidence why his/her position merits acceptance.
For the one carrying the “burden of proof”, the advocate, to marshal evidence for his/her position in order to convince or force the opponent's acceptance. The method by which this is accomplished is producing valid, sound, and cogent arguments, devoid of weaknesses, and not easily attacked.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentation_theory
@DT
Apr 22nd, 2018 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“I was thinking about Aécio Neves.”
If he'd been elected, I/O Dilma, the sh*t may have hit the fan immy after he'd have taken over, as the Dilma woudn't have been in a position to try to hide her cock-ups.
In a way, it was good he didn't win. IF he had, 1) the PT would have accused him of causing the recession.......they still tell whoever wants to listen, that they are not to blame...then who is ? and 2), the same accusations against him would've surfaced, and now he, I/O Temer would be fighting for survival.
PR's turning away immigrants they didn't want, WAS illegal, however they got around it by conditioning their passage to having a job/ place to live...and got away with it. AFAIK, the Federal government didn't embrace the migrants' cause, so nothing came of it.
Down south, temperatures can go down to near freezing, while in the NE, are usually in the mid 30s (Celsius). Brazil's southern-most point is the same latitude as SOUTH Africa.
“Actually that kinda supports EM's theory”.....While I think the timing - her death and the military intervention tends more towards a coincidence, the military intervention may have made the more violent factions of the police and the militias jittery, in that the Army was clamping down on their activities and all they didn't need was a 'Marielle' adding insult to injury...And the fact she was complaining about police violence long before the military intervened, and that when they did (intervene), they had a very high approval rating from the population in general, I am not so sure she was lambasting the army, especially since the army was not taking over police functions...they only patrolled the avenues and streets near the favelas in order to intimidate but not confront the drug gangs and/or the militias.
More recently they've made incursions in to one or two 'favelas', but only as back-up for the police.
@Terry the Liar
Apr 23rd, 2018 - 12:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Is that all you can say? “Burden of proof, burden of proof, burden of proof”? I don't believe you've had an original thought in your life.
I'm not claiming success, dumbo. I'm only saying I had a sensible discussion with RL, without constant whining about BoP and the other idiocies that you come up with. I'm saying you should look at his arguments to see how to do it.
@JB
Depends if he or his ministers would be implicated in the lava jato investigation. This article says Dilma had several chances to stifle it which she didn't take:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/dilma-rousseff-will-be-remembered-in-brazils-history-books-for-more-than-recession-and-corruption-a7042691.html
Is it true she fired ministers who were implicated in corruption?
Temer certainly hasn't been doing that.
“the Federal government didn't embrace the migrants' cause, so nothing came of it.”
Another example of enforcement being the problem rather than the laws themselves, but also shows how much that government didn't care. It's not that they didn't help the migrants, but that they basically allowed crimes against them without doing anything.
TBH the south sounds way better temperature wise, but I guess it depends what you are used to. If the temp goes over 30C here it makes the national news, that's far too hot.
And are the army clamping down on the violent police and militias? It sounds like they are not doing that much TBH; maybe they are getting in the way a little but nothing more. What did Marielle say about the military, anyway?
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Apr 23rd, 2018 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse -1“I’m not claiming success,… even though he was wrong about the article in question.” You have clearly stated that he was wrong, therefore you’re claiming too be right. Since it follows that you’re not conceding the point, the only possible view you could hold is it was a was a success. As you don’t accept it as a failure, and the only other possible opinion is you consider it as tie, in your exalted opinion.
“Is that all you can say?” It’s a minimum requirement, otherwise an argument cannot be satisfactorily resolved without such evidentiary proof.
That's my opinion, Terry, which I reached over the course of the discussion. We couldn't find conclusive proof so we don't know for sure who was right, but we were mostly able to discuss it sensibly and civilly, something you cannot (or will not) do.
Apr 23rd, 2018 - 08:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Apr 23rd, 2018 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse -1So you’ve changed your stanza from a previous validation of successful to the antithesis, or are you now claiming a tie? Regardless, peer review was still quite revealing. While RL received numerous approval ratings, it appears the consensus was, you were anything but successful.
@DT
Apr 23rd, 2018 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse +1REF: Conclusive-Proof:
You refer to a country where the bona fide racketeers are encouraged to become the candidates and the where their Devoted Voters pray that such candidates win the elections. After assuming power; they are very likely to “improve” the Legal System. So watch-Out!
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PCnM_2juQkQ/WkTkaJNHJmI/AAAAAAAAMZk/eAfVYlyVKuUVQgqtre5EPwUIvoqj_9RDgCLcBGAs/s1600/genildo.jpg
God Terry, you're so thick. No, I haven't changed my 'stanza' (sic). And anonymous votes on a forum are not remotely similar to peer review. There's absolutely nothing to stop one person creating 6 accounts and downvoting you 6 times, for a start (hi Kanye!) Secondly, as you are so fond of saying, everyone has an opinion and without evidence they don't mean a thing. If I go on a forum of Flat Earthers and they all vote me down for saying we live on a globe, does that mean they must be right? Wait, are you a Flat Earther?
Apr 23rd, 2018 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Apr 23rd, 2018 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“No, I haven't changed my 'stanza” Except for “even though he(RL) was wrong about the article in question.” To “We couldn't find conclusive proof so we don't know for sure who was right,” “Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall. Humpty Dumpty had a great fall…” You’re spinning your narrative so much that you can’t tell up from down, you’re living proof that sophism doesn’t really work.
“anonymous votes on a forum are not remotely similar to peer review.” Then how are dissimilar, as you have no proof that anyone else engages in fraud like you do.
@DT
Apr 23rd, 2018 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse -2“Trying” to discuss anything with the Liar is an exercise in wasting time. He thinks he's infallible, and his BoP crap is boring. An opinion does not need proof, i.e., I don't have to prove that I think he's an idiot...I'm allowed to think whatever I want of him.
If Aecio had won the 2014 election, and with the scarcity of honest politicians, he'd probably have appointed his (also corrupt) friends as Ministers, so don't think the outcome would be much different to what's happening now.
“The deposed Brazilian president - Dilma - was overwhelmed by a position she was never qualified to hold”......says it in a nutshell.
She only fired a Minister - like Lula, and even Temer - when the political cost of maintaining them became too high. The fact she (apparently) didn't try to stifle the “lavajato” was a good thing, but on the other hand, were she intelligent, she would've realized she was surrounded by crooks (I'm giving her just 'a bit' of credit) and would've taken drastic measures....but she didn't ; incompetent, not-too-smart, stubbornly stupid are fitting descriptions of her,.and the anecdotes the author of the article mentions (of her giving speeches) are hilarious...better than stand-up comedy.
The army in Rio still only patrols the city, not venturing into the 'favelas' other than to serve as back-up to the police, reason being that if they went in to get rid of the drug gangs and milicias, lots of innocent people would die. But it may just reach the point where the 'residents' are told to clear out (before a military raid) for their own safety. Dealing with the problem in the current fashion doesn't seem to be making much difference.
Not really sure if Marielle did criticize the military, but if she did, it would make no sense....the situation in Rio has existed for decades. Besides, during Dilma's presidency, the military were called out twice (if I remember correctly) to do much the same what they re doing now. No one complained.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Apr 23rd, 2018 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“He thinks he's infallible,” Hardly my fault that such a dishonest opposition might leave people with that impression.
@JB
Apr 23rd, 2018 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're right, I know you're right, but still astounds me that any human being can be that wilfully stupid and so full of himself. I guess I'd better just 'peer review' his comments and move on.
Who has Temer fired, then? I haven't been keeping track. I daresay it should be at least half of them, perhaps we'll see a bit more turnover come May...
And Dilma absolutely must have known she was surrounded by crooks. I guess she didn't feel able to take on the fight, or thought she'd soon be pushed out if she tried, what with the amount of guilty senators (and that ended up happening anyway). Maybe she really was hoping the judges would do the job for her, and didn't think she had anything to fear herself since as far as we know she never accepted any bribes personally.
I don't see how the army could warn the favela residents to move out without alerting the criminals to move out with them. They've been called out before and don't seem to have achieved a whole lot (and I bet people did complain when Dilma was President, it just maybe wasn't reported as much).
According to Al Jazeera, Marielle was head of a commission tasked with monitoring potential abuses associated with the military intervention.
The same article also says this:
“Rio de Janeiro is a violent state - yet the deployment of military troops has repeatedly proved to be a failure. The Military Police is known for its abuses, extrajudicial killings and disappearance of suspects. According to human rights activists and security experts, the presence of the army merely amplifies the abuses - and does not solve any problem. According to research carried out with the residents of Mare, the military occupation of the favela did not significantly alter the perception of insecurity and fear.”
Seems like a good enough reason to oppose it.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Apr 23rd, 2018 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse -2A lot of things astound you, mainly being caught in contradictions that you’re unable to extradite yourself from. Like my last post, as a perfect example. Incidentally, it’s not my fault you’re so unpopular, especially with your warm winning ways.
At least 15 of the 20 candidates who might run for president of Brazil in the October elections are targeted in more than 160 cases in courts throughout the country, according to FOLHA de SAO PAULO: REF:
Apr 24th, 2018 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2018/04/24/some-15-brazilian-presidential-hopefuls-have-some-160-cases-in-court-according-to-folha-de-sao-paulo#comments
Obviously, predictably not so surprisingly; Brazil already is and will continue to be kidnapped [also be dominated] by the Traditional-Racketeers.
@DT
Apr 24th, 2018 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Temer changed about 10 ministers, half fired for becoming inconvenient, or embarrassing : Romero Jucá (for interfering with ‘Lava Jato’); Fabiano Silva (openly criticized LJ, counseled future LJ defendants while in office); Henrique Alves (corruption charges /Transpetro); Fabio Osorio (unclear ‘why’, apparently becos he accused Govt of obstructing LJ); Geddel Vieira Lima (pressuring another minister for personal favours, unable explain origin of R$ 51 million found in his flat); others resigned, alleging ‘personal’ reasons.
Dilma sure did know…she only kept quiet because she was a puppet, and had more to gain by it. Hard to say what she really wanted, but the fact she is now like a tic on Lula’s nuts, makes one wonder…presuming she WAS aware of the thievery, then why travel abroad to defend Lula and to badmouth Brazil ? Up to now, she’s not been charged with passive bribery, but her ‘incompetence’, such as managing to ‘lose’ US$ 1 billion in the purchase of the Pasadena refinery, is highly suspicious.
As they announce the ‘evacuation’ the army could surround the favela, installing checkpoints at the entrances /exits. Other than that, the intervention is no better than ‘drying ice’.
Don’t consider Al Jazeera a very reliable source…but what ‘abuses by the army’ were reported ? doesn’t make sense, the army’s been there for less than 2 months and is NOT substituting the police. On the other hand, if Marielle considered the soldiers requests for residents’ IDs (and photographing them) was an ‘abuse’, it was only her opinion.
I think that the military intervention – as being carried out now – is innocuous ;
Note however, the ‘military police’, despite the name, have nothing to do with the army.
AFAIC, the HR‘s allegations are stretching it, to serve their narrative. Their allegations contradict the polls whereby residents are glad of military presence, and leftist groups are spreading fake news that is the beginning of another military coup (???)
@JB
Apr 24th, 2018 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: As they announce the ‘evacuation’ the army could surround the favela, installing checkpoints at the entrances /exits. Other than that, the intervention is no better than ‘drying ice’:
Sounds more like a Three-Way AMICABLE-Pact - between the Politicians, the Armed Forces and the Cartels; which might as well go like this:
- “Let's hoodwink the population”
- “Our racketeering will continue Non-Stop but please DO look the other way”
- “We'll look the other way, while you continue with a very easy life”
- “Let's support each other and share profits”
@JB
Apr 25th, 2018 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's still amazing to me that so many of them did those things and must have expected to get away with them, too. The rot must have been growing for a long time.
I suppose Dilma is travelling abroad to help Lula, and maybe she really thinks the law is being applied unfairly. It's not much of a stretch to say there is favouritism visible in who gets prosecuted and what sentences they get. Without the press coverage it could be even worse, I don't suppose Temer would have fired those ministers if it wasn't for the bad publicity.
I'm not in the police so I don't really know what the army could effectively do, but I can't think of any other country that has successfully solved a problem with drug gangs, unless you count the US which got rid of the gangsters by repealing prohibition. AFAIK in Mexico the problem is ever so much worse; any journalists or politicians who threaten the gangs are killed, and you hear of big groups of bodies being found by the road, or sometimes just heads left there to scare their rivals. The Mexican army can't do anything. It's basically a war zone.
Anyway, no one seems to think the army is doing much good in Rio at the moment. For all I know Marielle objected due to experience with the previous interventions; I seem to remember reading the army killed quite a few people before the Olympics, who may or may not have been guilty of anything.
And I don't see the military intervention as the start of a coup, but the statements by current and former generals are enough to make anyone worry, given the history.
@DT
Apr 25th, 2018 - 08:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The 'rot' set in soon after Brazil was 'discovered'....so yes, it's been growing for a long time.
If Dilma were truly honest she would extricate herself from the mess the PT created, and try to salvage her reputation....the fact she does not, and keeps on defending Lula, is because she is a as rotten as the rest, combined with taking the easy way out....just imagine if she had to apply for a job ? who the hell would take her on ?
As to who gets prosecuted and who doesn't, all parties will have their share of prosecutions, it's just a matter time...meanwhile all people can talk about is the toad, so obviously he is going to be in the limelight for quite a while. But as others are convicted, those who think he is being 'persecuted' will realize he's just one more corrupt politician.
Rio already is in fact, a war zone...more people killed there than in Iraq.....all it needs is the population and the army to accept this for more effective measures to be adopted.
As I said, the army is 'fighting' a war of contention....just defending their territory without advancing into the enemy's...that will not work. Let's not forget, previous requests for intervention - as this one - were requested by the state government, and attended by the “PT's” Federal Government....but don't recall there being the same resistance by the groups who are complaining now. AFAIC, current resistance (against the army) is more politically motivated (by the radical left) than anything else.
People read what they want into the threats, but facts show the Armed Forces have always been reluctant to take over. They know they weren't made to run the country, but they also know they don't want corruption and impunity threatening democracy.
@DT:
Apr 26th, 2018 - 01:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “US got rid of the gangsters by repealing prohibition”:
And yet it is difficult to justify & to explain; how the USA continues to be the largest “IMPORTER” of all kinds illicit of drugs - from South America and from many different AND distant parts of the world [INCLUDING Afghanistan]! Obviously; “somebody” in the US is fattening his/her wallet [putting it mildly] - for YEARS!
@JB
Apr 26th, 2018 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“just imagine if she had to apply for a job ? who the hell would take her on ?”
Meh, there's plenty of people like EM who'd be glad to employ her. It's the people who do rock the boat who end up out of a job, like your colleague who got sent back to Europe for making a fuss. And I'm not as confident as you that all parties will get their share of prosecutions, the judges can be bribed just as well as anyone else.
“Rio already is in fact, a war zone...more people killed there than in Iraq.....all it needs is the population and the army to accept this for more effective measures to be adopted.”
Maybe. I doubt they want to see the sort of collateral damage there has been in Iraq, and the government has shown no sign that they are willing or able to step up and rebuild things afterwards. They could do that now; having more of a presence in the favelas and in people's daily lives would surely help. It's their absence that created the vacuum the gangs and militias are filling.
As for resistance to the interventions, I certainly remember objects before the Olympics, but I think Temer had already taken over then. And I didn't see much in the news before then, it was the Olympics and maybe the World Cup that brought international attention to the violence.
“facts show the Armed Forces have always been reluctant to take over”
Not reluctant enough. If they did it once they can do it again, it's not something long ago in history, you lived through it yourself. And really, why say those things if not for the implied threat? I don't remember any of our generals ever commenting on anything that wasn't related to war or defence spending (complaining about cuts mostly). Anything else is outside their job description.
@ :o))
It is difficult to explain, when the 'war on drugs' has been such a failure. Some people suspect sinister motives.
@DT
Apr 26th, 2018 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yeah, Reekie would take her on....but he'd better be careful, she even managed to bankrupt a 99 cents shop (which she owned).
Right, collateral damage would be a problem, Then there's one last resort : surround the 'favelas' and starve the gangs out. Everyone who leaves or enters must go through heaviliy armed checkpoints.
Can you imagine the Olympics going on in Rio with its current situation ? given that in the last two years things have got exponentially worse, but back then it was Rio's government and citizens alike who were clamouring for help...The World Cup was held in 2014 ; the Olympics in the first 3 weeks of August 2016 ; Dilma was impeached end August 2016, Temer took over in September.
“not reluctant enough”.. the notion of there being various degrees of reluctance doesn't work when the threat being faced is real. As I've said before, people who didn't go through that period (50 to 30 years ago) tend to look at the events as not being as serious as claimed ; besides, today, there is no lack of leftist-inspired reports and fake news....so it's somewhat difficult to convince someone of the opposite of what they've grown up reading.
“And really, why say those things if not for the implied threat?”.......the implied threat can be only to intimidate, or can be real.....only by knowing the real situation, which is the cause of the threat, can you evaluate if it's reasonable or exaggerated. And how do you judge Rio's current situation ? exaggerated, calm, chaotic, plain dangerous, intolerable ?
Your generals have NEVER been even remotely involved in anything like the situation in Brazil in 1964, and nor in the war zone Rio has become, so it's kind of pointless to make the comparison.
Our generals have been involved in real war zones, in Iraq and Afghanistan, so they know the difficulties and limitations of fighting against guerrillas who come from the local population and disappear back into it, and who the people are too scared to inform on. And those two wars show the vast difference between winning battles and building a functioning country, and how untrained and ill-suited the military is for the latter. Having the people on your side is essential. If the police and the military treat everyone in the favela as a suspect they will just alienate them even more, when their cooperation is essential for a real solution.
Apr 26th, 2018 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As for Brazil's generals, I presume you don't think the situation now is as bad as 50 years ago. Do you believe there is any chance of the military taking over again or not?
And about the Olympics, I don't know how much worse things are in Rio now compared to then, but I definitely remember Temer giving the opening speech and getting booed. Must have been during the impeachment, after Temer took over but before the final verdict.
@DT:
Apr 26th, 2018 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “Do you believe there is any chance of the military taking over again or not?”:
At least, ONE thing is ABSOLUTELY clear:
The FUNDAMENTAL requirement for being a politician; is that one MUST be - HAVE to be - absolutely corrupt!:
https://i0.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Palocci-decide-falar.jpg?resize=580%2C403&ssl=1
WHAT'S THE GUARANTEE THAT THE ARMED FORCES WILL REFRAIN FROM TAKING THE SAME ROUTE?
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