MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Brazil's Lula gives his party the green light to find a new presidential candidate
Brazil's ex-president Lula, who is imprisoned for corruption, on Tuesday gave his Workers' Party (PT) the green light to find a new candidate for the October presidential election in which he remains the frontrunner. “I want you to feel totally free to take whatever decision you need because 2018 is an important year for the PT, for the left and for democracy,” wrote Lula da Silva in a letter to the party leadership. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesHis party still wants him, but Lula does not want to become an obstacle to the candidacy of another PT candidate.
Apr 26th, 2018 - 01:23 am - Link - Report abuse -1That is the wood true leaders are made of. As Lula said in his speech before turning himself in, he no longer counts as an individual--he represents an idea. And while men or women may be imprisoned or killed, nobody can prevent spring and hope to come back--every year.
Arrogant corrupt pillock.
Apr 26th, 2018 - 01:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0“but Lula does not want to become an obstacle to the candidacy of another PT candidate”...
Apr 26th, 2018 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Well, well, well, how dramatic of you, and how magnanimous of Lula....one more for Lula's collection of arrogant self-praise :- “Never has there been a more magnanimous man in the world, than me”....”...if he weren't ridiculous, he'd be funny.
Lula represents the political crooks of Brazil...
@JB:
Apr 27th, 2018 - 09:06 am - Link - Report abuse +1REF: “if he weren't ridiculous, he'd be funny”:
His being ridiculous; he really is funny! :o))
But it looks like he has a very strong competitor [in being not only ridiculous but also in racketeering]:
EXAME:
REF: “se eleito, será tarefa difícil tirá-lo do cargo”:
https://exame.abril.com.br/brasil/ciro-gomes-diz-que-se-eleito-sera-tarefa-dificil-tira-lo-do-cargo/
@:o))
Apr 27th, 2018 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Ciro Gomes' arrogant speech, “if elected, no one will take me down, I'm not Dilma” sizes up this leftist pretty well. His declaration that Brazil's problems are structural , is stale news.
IF the PT had actually used the hundreds of billions of dollars spent (disappeared) with the 2 PACs, in an honest fashion, Brazil would be in a relatively good situation.
His idea that the problems will be solved by the restauration of democracy (? is he saying it's not a democracy, now ?) and political leadership (true, but provided in the right direction) is far easier said than done....no government that has to deal with 32 parties, having to bribe them for the necessary support, will manage to do very much....and if it does, it'll be at a very high cost to the population....in other words, good ole corruption will flourish like always, and investments will be kept at the bare minimum to fool the poor into thinking that they are being 'looked after'.
@JB:
Apr 28th, 2018 - 02:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes.
Additionally - as I always mentioned - if one is a politician; he/she is there for the “Fringe Benefits” [= corruption].
@JB
Apr 28th, 2018 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse -1JB's convoluted explanations as to how Lula da Silva was, in fact, a bad president don't stand a chance against the record and the enduring support a majority of Brazilian electors still bestow to him--even when tarnished and thrown behind bars by partial judges and the whole status quo apparatus.
Lula, one of the world's most successful presidents, was effective in fighting Brazil's endemic poverty--and no amount of rhetoric can obscure that.
@EM:
Apr 28th, 2018 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse +1REF: “and no amount of rhetoric can obscure that”:
TRUE - neither his involvement in all kinds of rackets.
His “Right-Hand” men are about to spill out the beans so please hold on just little a bit!
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gr-IAyn4rhI/VWfgWudTreI/AAAAAAAAp58/hINrnuO-h3w/s1600/spn-lula-roubalheira-fifa.jpg
@EM
Apr 28th, 2018 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse +1It is clear that you are just another person who believes that Lula's “claimed” but unproven record is far more important than his proved corruption.....
Once again I'll ask you, what do YOU KNOW that can prove your hero's innocence ? or are you just blowing hot air because you and Lula stand in the same ideological field ?
Here's your chance to show what you know, or DON'T know, about what led to Lula's conviction.
@JB:
Apr 29th, 2018 - 03:28 am - Link - Report abuse +1REF: “what led to Lula's conviction”:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7jTBmlr0gBk/Vlzm5r7VQ5I/AAAAAAAARn8/b--OBTJ45Bw/s1600/politica-charge.jpg
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Apr 29th, 2018 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“What do YOU KNOW that can prove your hero's innocence“
“Brazil’s Democracy Pushed Into the Abyss
The evidence against Mr. da Silva is far below the standards that would be taken seriously in, for example, the United States’ judicial system.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/opinion/brazil-lula-democracy-corruption.html
Which along with myself, and many others who are familiar with bona fide functioning legal systems. Also with the prima facia UN Human Rights abuses.
When PT came to power, the economy was not exactly in the pink of its health. But after 15 years of PT, when Dilma was kicked out [for whatever reasons]; the economy was actually GASPING for BREATH. Wasn't it?
Apr 29th, 2018 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse +1@JB
Apr 29th, 2018 - 06:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0RE your comment in 'Lula's party preparing Plan B':
@JB
But didn't other countries in South America suffer recessions at the same time, like Argentina? That's what made me think it was caused by external factors.
The great recession in the US and Europe would be a good reason to not reply on those markets, but not a good reason to become dependent on China instead. Seems like there should be some happy medium. Now with Trump in charge it'll be harder to build up exports to the US, but at least you'e benefiting indirectly as China is currently buying Brazilian soy beans instead of US ones.
How is the economy doing now? I think I read that it's technically out of recession, but is that reflected on the ground with less unemployment etc?
And US$ 200 billion a year? That can't be right, it's like 10% of Brazil's entire GDP!
@DT
Apr 29th, 2018 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Sure, not saying most South American countries weren't affected by the US recession (signs had already appeared 2007), as well as by China’s slowdown (2011), but none of them, like Brazil, had put most of their eggs in one basket; When the Chinese slowdown began, instead of tightening their belt, Dilma / Lula kept on ‘spending’ billions - in preparation for World Cup/Olympics (w/ rampant corruption, but that’s another story)…just one example of their fiscal irresponsibility.
Had they actually invested in infrastructure, instead of ‘inventing’ the (suspicious) PACs, Brazil could have weathered the two ‘crises’ better.
To not “rely” on EU and US (in Crisis) is recommendable, to ‘abandon’ them (relatively speaking) is not. As :o)) said, instead of making hay when the sun shined, they thought it was time to steal more. Lula devoted far more time visiting countries to negotiate deals (including offering ‘generous’ financing though the BNDES) that had little to offer in return (those in which his ‘friends’ were in charge – Uruguay, Argentina, Moçambique, Angola, Venezuela, Bolivia, Cuba), instead of with traditionally better trading partners. Just fyi, Temer will have to include an extra R$ 1,3 billion is next year’s budget, to repay the BNDES a loan that VZ has defaulted on.
Brazil IS technically out of recession, but only just. The labor-intensive sectors aren’t doing too well, while (most) commodities (mainly agribusiness) are recovering well. Unemployment has fallen, but not much (perhaps 7-800 thousand new jobs). Confidence indexes have improved, but as I said the labor intensive sectors, with few exceptions, seem to be stagnated.
US$ 200 billion does sounds a lot, but it’s the common estimate made by some prominent economic consultancy firms. When you hear of the corruption schemes being uncovered, every day, all over Brazil, involving dozens to 100s of millions, you find it easier to believe.
Still owe you a reply on TD, but need space…Tks.
@JB
Apr 29th, 2018 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the various layers of government in Brazil were really stealing US$200 bn a year, and a lot of it was going out of the country, I'm not surprised you had a recession. The only surprise is that it didn't happen earlier.
But what did you want Dilma to do, cancel the World Cup and Olympics? It might've been better not to agree to host both so close together, but they're not the kind of thing you can just back out of.
Those countries Lula visited, Angola and Mozambique, are former Portuguese colonies aren't they? Was he trying to create some Portuguese-speaking version of the Commonwealth? And I guess Venezuela actually was quite rich at the time, but not a good credit risk as it turned out...
And about the economy, is the agribusiness recovering better because the government policy is favouring it, like in Argentina? Seems like they ought to try and do more for the manufacturing sector, if that's where the jobs are.
@DT:
Apr 30th, 2018 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “The only surprise is that it didn't happen earlier”:
Do you really believe in THAT“? The stealing of Public-Funds has always been a culture, a routine, the hobby and the character of the corrupt! THAT's why they keep constantly struggling & ”investing” in holding-on to power.
The ONLY difference between then & now; is that finally, their corrupt practices are openly available for everyone to see [but not necessarily to react against]! And THAT is a BIGGER problem! THAT is why, ALL the corrupt, in spite of being condemned; are graciously permitted to keep all of their $$$!
@DT
Apr 30th, 2018 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Corruption wasn’t always that high; after inflation was controlled, perception was that salaries lasted longer, confidence was up, ‘n economy was producing superavits. To the opportunists it was the chance to deviate funds and remain UNnoticed. Only once in recent history, can I remember a govt (FHC) passing power to another (Lula), in such a favorable conditions. That Brazil survived as long as it did under the PT, speaks for its resilience.
Alrdy 2011, humongous costs /suspicions of corruption, made many question the wisdom of hosting the 2 events, ‘n recommended pulling out. PT refused to listen.
Lula’s visits to ANG/MOZ, besides being POR speaking nations, were motivated by fact tt were ruled by communist dictators/“easier” to negotiate with.
Why the agribusiness is a success : modern tech, efficient, privately-run.
Re Lula's voters, seems ideology/ignorance trump honesty.
Plea-bargains, once concluded/accepted by the court, can be used as judge sees fit.
Article on TD sums it up well: As Odeb employee fm 2011/16 , accused of being PMDB /PB bribe facilitator, he instructed directors what to say in plea-bargains/'n that a few e-mails from Odeb’s intranet “might've been” adulterated…thus implying e-mails used in the Odeb/PB investigations (Moro jurisdiction) “could” be compromised. Did not mention Moro’s wife in his deposition/reiterated he had nothing on Moro. Reminder : Lula’s “triprekis” was ‘OAS’ gift). TD claimed Moro’s arrest warrant hurt him, but when offered plea-bargain by the MPF, turned it down, alleging it’d make him look guilty. He then hired Zucolotto, from a “Curitiba” law firm (where Moro’s wife worked). Privy to LJ details ? TD couldn’t afford Zucolotto’s fee (US$ 5 mil), presumably why he fled to Spain. Very weak connection to Moro.
Doubt a radical pres will get in, and re the army’s “threats”, don’t believe they’ll be carried out.
While VP, no one imagined Temer taking on the reforms, nor being as corrupt
@JB
Apr 30th, 2018 - 09:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So TD worked for Odebrecht (construction company) which would have been giving the bribes, and he said the spreadsheets the LJ investigation are using have been altered, as well as that they asked him to confess to things he (said he hadn't) done. How does that relate to PMDB/PB and to Lula? Is it completely separate to the Triplex case? But AFAIR there are 5 other cases pending against Lula, so probably one of them involves Odebrecht. The altered spreadsheets thing is especially worrying because they are supposed to be evidence confirming that was said in the plea bargains, right? If they were instructed what to say and the documents altered to match before being handed over... it would mean nothing could be relied on.
And Zucolotto's fee was US$5m? That's ridiculous, why would he charge so much unless because he was providing some 'special' service? But I found an article saying TD had $13m in a Swiss bank account, so I guess he still could have afforded it.
As for the rest, can see why they wouldn't want to pull out of hosting WC/Olympics, but I think they were overambitious in the first place, especially when there are so many important things to spend the money on.
If the manufacturing sector is struggling, is that because it isn't modern, efficient and privately run?
As for Temer, I'm sure I remember him saying at the time the reason they were voting out Dilma was so they could reform the economy, and he may not have been accused of anything yet, but there were definitely suspicions. Actually, he had been accused of something; both he and Dilma were accused of taking illegal campaign donations, something the court later let them off for.
@DT
May 01st, 2018 - 02:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The LJ investigation is focused on bribes to obtain PB contracts. The PT, as well as the PMDB (after 2010) after Temer became VP, were who wielded the power, i.e, to determine which contractor would get the BNDES financing and the contract.
The 'triprekis' had nothing to do with Odebrecht....only OAS.
As far back as 2001, Odeb saw Lula as a potential candidate and started to finance his campaigns...their “friendship' goes back quite some time...in the spreadsheets/other docs found in Odeb's bribe dept, Lula figures as ”amigo do pai“, or ”father's friend“, the father being Emilio Odebrecht. Emilio testified to Moro, than on 31 Dec 2010, Lula's last last day as president, he met up with Lula and promised him R$ 300 million, to be used by Lula as a checking a/c within Odeb...in order avoid having a bank account being tracked. This cash was used to pay Lula for his ”arranged” lectures, held in Odebrecht, and countries where Lula's dictator friends ruled...
Yday Lula was charged once again ...for the 7th time; this one includes Gleisi Hoffman and her husband (ex-PT minister).
TD's allegations were that “some” e-mails “might have been ” altered. Without proof. Anyway, why would Odeb bother to alter e-mails / spreadsheets in a system (Drousys) kept secretely in Switzerland, and which they were confident would never be discovered ? Makes no sense. Anyway, it was the Swiss prosecutors who uncovered the system and sent the details to Brazil. If TD were really telling the truth, and had nothing to hide, why flee to Spain ?...could've accepted the plea-bargain and cleared his name.
All lawyers defending LJ defendants presume there's big money behind them, so they're out to fleece their clients. TD obviously thought it was better to flee than to pay.
The manufacturing industry is modern enough, but when people have no money, they stop consuming.
If Temer ever said that , was probably when Dilma's impeachment was imminent and he wanted to send an optimistic msg.
Why did Odebrecht want to pay Lula personally only after he finished as president? Even supposing he still had some influence that doesn't make much sense.
May 01st, 2018 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I saw where they said they gave to all campaigns, both the government and opposition, to cover themselves no matter who won. Makes sense they'd fund Lula, and I bet he never would have won if he hadn't taken their money for campaigning. Corruption seems to be pretty much how politics functions in Brazil. Is Emilio Odebrecht in jail also?
”why would Odeb bother to alter e-mails / spreadsheets in a system (Drousys) kept secretely in Switzerland, and which they were confident would never be discovered ?“
Maybe they realised the shit was about to hit the fan? I mean, it must have been discovered or we wouldn't be talking about it, so it can't have been that well hidden.
As for TD, he said he didn't want to confess to things he hadn't done. Considering they were just going to give him house arrest for 6 months if he accepted the plea bargain, I can't believe it was fear of going to jail that made him flee. So maybe he's telling the truth?
”The manufacturing industry is modern enough, but when people have no money, they stop consuming.”
That's pretty much the definition of a recession, and why governments are supposed to save during the boom and spend during the recession. Of course, the former is never so popular as the later...
@DT
May 02nd, 2018 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Why did Odebrecht want to pay Lula personally only after he finished as president? Even supposing he still had some influence that doesn't make much sense”.
It makes a ton of sense. Lula had been very useful to Odebrecht for 8 years (2003-2010) and with his grip on Dilma (already elected to her 1st term), he would carry on being, not only useful but essential. Just fyi, during Marcelo Odebebrecht's testimony, when asked 'why' he would pay such millionaire bribes, he answered that for every 1 million in bribes, he had a 5 million profit....sounds like a good enough reason to me...
I believe Emilio is under house arrest.
AFAIR, the MPF and Fed Police only had their suspicions about the Drousys system (maintained in Switzerand for security reasons) confirmed in June 2016, during the deposition of the Odeb employee, in charge of (the local bribe dept - already known to them - and ) operating the system from Brazil. Probably thought it better to spill the beans that go to prison. It was immy blocked by the Swiss authorities who sent the files to Brazil, some of which already in possession of the police, found in the local bribe dept.
The later suspicion of possible tampering with data, referred not to alterations, but to the partial deletion of some files before being discoverd....Don't think Odeb could just alter or delete important data without losing control.
Regarding TD, to accept a plea-bargain and 6 months house arrest seems quite a bit better than self-exile...if his truth is that he is innocent, and he effectively had something to contribute to the investigation, why didn't he stay ?
Presume that to those who could read the signs, as well as suspect the absurdity of the economic indices Dilma's government announced for 2013, and continued into 2014 (clear manipulation), the recession may not have been “such” a surprise, but probably didn't expect it to be as serious...overnight people became scared, started to lose their jobs.
“Regarding TD, to accept a plea-bargain and 6 months house arrest seems quite a bit better than self-exile”
May 02nd, 2018 - 11:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes it does, which makes his story more credible to me. If he thought he could trust the police and the courts, why wouldn't he stay in Brazil on those terms?
I don't think he claimed to be innocent, at least that was the impression i got. Only that the plea deal included confessing to things he hadn't done. According to El País they refused to extradite him because he's a Spanish citizen, but they might prosecute him there for his involvement in Odebrecht. That makes exile seem like an even worse option.
I guess Odeb wouldn't want to change or delete the data unless they had a copy elsewhere, or unless they knew it was about to be discovered.
Was the recession a surprise to you as well then? I don't think there was much reported about it here until it affected the Olympics, they certainly weren't talking about early warning signs.
@DT
May 03rd, 2018 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re TD, which ‘story’ are you referring to ? his allegations/suspicions of files being deleted ? or tt he believed the MPF/FP would not give him a fair chance to explain his involvement ? the doubts you believe he had with respect to MPF/FP/Courts, makes it sound like all the evidence presented/proof found is all fabricated, and his conviction was a done deal…well, by what I’ve seen (including confessions during testimony), absolutely no one convicted in the LJ, whether a politician (very few), or the Odeb/OAS executives, is innocent. If involuntarily involved (obeying orders to not he fired), that has and would be taken into account…He would explain the extent of his involvement : which goes from being the middle-man in certain deals (bribes, money-laundering) between Odeb/PB – with or without personal gain, but more likely ‘with’ – to having to instruct executives to combine their stories, and might’ve been let off with a rap on the knuckles, as happened with many of the executives who took plea-bargains. So don’t see why he’d have to confess to what he ‘did not do’.
If not mistaken, Odeb did in fact transfer part of the data to another server (also in Switzerland), which was discovered soon after the first one, so their ploy didn’t work.
By comparing indices published by Dilma, with daily reality : supermarket prices rising every month, govt-controlled prices (such as energy, gasoline, GLP, and even the cost of private health plans) increasing by 15/20% per year, it was easy to see things were out of control and that the government was lying. The only part of the crisis that caught me by surprise was its extent, which became obvious when millions started to lose their jobs. The first clear sign of problems which impacted people directly was the lack of funds for social programs (scholarships, public health, popular housing), which the govt tried to justify as momentary difficulties. By the end of 2014 her “pedalling” and lies were uncovered.
Odebrecht [and the other “similar” industries] + the politicians [need I add “corrupt”?] are but the two sides of the SAME coin - R$, USD, Euros - YOU name it
May 03rd, 2018 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@JB
May 03rd, 2018 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0His story that he was asked to pay a bribe to get a plea deal, which if true implies someone (or several someones) is crooked in the police or courts. You may have looked at the evidence, but it's pretty easy for the police to fake evidence and even get confessions IF they are willing to. I really hope it's not true.
RE the recession, it seems weird a government trying to hide it. I remember in 2007 they told us there would be a recession, and a few months later the effects became very evident. Weren't the press talking about the price rises etc during that time?
They said this was Brazil's worst recession since, I think, the 30s, which is pretty shocking. It almost seems like the higher the rise, the deeper the fall. I guess a lot of those millions are still unemployed, too.
@DT:
May 04th, 2018 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “this was Brazil's worst recession”:
100% TRUE!
This is just a BEGINNING. Wait till the elections are over. Soon thereafter, I expect the Soaring of Inflation + Recession + Stagnation + Unemployment + Crime + US$ - you name it! No amount of tightening of the belts will be sufficient; except perhaps in a few highly privileged sectors [agro-industries; just as one example].
@DT
May 04th, 2018 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“His story that he was asked to pay a bribe to get a plea deal”.....don’t recall reading this, but would appreciate it if you could point to where you did, as if true, his fleeing to Spain would make sense.
“it seems weird a government trying to hide it, ” ....for the 1st world, that rings true, but here ? It's all part of the same problem, which basically stems from ignorance...people aren’t sufficiently well-informed to know when they are being manipulated, or told a lie....and our governments, counting on that, lie.
Everyone felt the inflation, the press hammered away at it, but the government just attacked the press, alleging political motivation. Many people only saw what they wanted to until the sh*t started to hit the fan. And even now, many refuse to acknowledge the cause, resorting to the ridiculous arguments of “40 million lifted out of poverty”.
In a country where the majority can think for itself, they wouldn’t get away with it.
I think one of Brazil's main problems is the underlying mentality of immediatism ; over decades of only ‘relative’ stability, most people no longer trust the government (or Congress,) making long-term planning (and business investments) risky, because the situation/ rules can change overnight ; honest citizens have generally lost faith in public institutions, such as the Police and the Judiciary. This, allied to the widespread corruption makes solid and sustainable growth difficult.
The fact that there are such enormous social contrasts, with the great majority living in far-less than ideal conditions, just seems to feed the problem. The fact that the authorities have ignored many problems while still ‘fixable’, allowing them to reach overwhelming proportions, has just contributed to the mess.
@JB
May 04th, 2018 - 10:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think this was the original article that other newspapers were referring to:
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/poder/2017/08/1913355-advogado-acusa-amigo-de-moro-de-intervir-em-acordo.shtml
“I think one of Brazil's main problems is the underlying mentality of immediatism”
I agree, but unfortunately as long as things aren't stable and people can't trust their government, it's rational to prioritise the short term, even though it's bad for the economy. Only by showing they can be trusted in the long term can the government change things, and that will necessarily take time.
Even the corruption, if they had spent the bribes in Brazil, would not have been *so* bad for the economy, but for them too it was more rational to put their money abroad, both to hide it and protect it from inflation etc.
“The fact that the authorities have ignored many problems while still ‘fixable’, allowing them to reach overwhelming proportions, has just contributed to the mess.”
I'd say the social contrasts have contributed largely to that; the masses of poor have little power or influence so their problems are easily ignored. Not to mention that even if well intentioned (which is frankly debatable) very few of the politicians are from a background that would let them understand those problems from the inside, or give them much sympathy with them.
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