MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Former minister and advisor confirms payments of bribes in hand to Lula da Silva
Antonio Palocci, who was minister during the governments of Lula da Silva and Dilma Rousseff, affirmed that he gave the former president, in “several opportunities”, cash proceeds of bribes from the construction companies Odebrecht and Andrade Gutierrez, according to the Globo Group. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesWho stole, actually how much + to what extent; will perhaps never be known. The worst part is that the stolen wealth will surely NEVER be returned to the public.
Jan 21st, 2019 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse +2At least the new government began well & efficiently too!
https://apnews.com/30e95461eccf42049490f0079c4a89f2
“In a statement, the former president's counsel said that the Justice “decided to validate the statements” of Palocci in exchange for “lies without evidence against the former president.”
Jan 21st, 2019 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse -3“All the fiscal secrets of Lula and his family were lifted without irregular values being found,” the note said.”
With out corroboration this sort testimony with its promises or favours is notoriously unreliable. Moreover, it is in clear breach of an accused's right of an opportunity to answer. I personally am extremely sceptical.
“Testimony for Sale: The Law and Ethics of Snitches and Experts
In their recently published book, Actual Innocence, Dwyer, Neufeld, and Scheck ...Of the sixty-four cases of DNA exoneration analyzed by Dwyer, Neufeld, and Scheck, ”snitch“ testimony was a factor in twenty-one percent of the wrongful convictions. ... Despite the obvious incentives for perjury and tailored testimony, our justice system accepts payments to witnesses in these two contexts as justifiable and necessary. ...”
https://digitalcommons.pepperdine.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1332&context=plr
I am certain that LULA can verify all the money he has accumilated, can't he? As can CFK?
Jan 21st, 2019 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse +1golfcronie
Jan 21st, 2019 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse -3“I am certain that LULA can ...” So thanks for the confirmation that even with the best financial forensics assets arrayed against him, there is absolutely no evidence any unlawful act.
“All the fiscal secrets of Lula and his family were lifted without irregular values being found,” the former president's counsel said.”
golfcronie
Jan 21st, 2019 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse +1I seem to side with Terrence Hill's belief that Lula was erroneously imprisoned because... well... err... ...he's innocent from corruptly participating in the great plundering the great wealth of the Brazilian people...
As Terry fully explained earlier, Brazil's economic demise was directly due to world gold prices... If there had not been a drop in gold futures, none of this terrible situation would have occurred.
That's the truth, Terry is the expert. Lula is innocent. The Brazilian Supreme Court was incorrect.
By the way, the evil fake news anarchist BBC currently has a very good 3 part documentary about the Brazilian scandal. Well worth watching!
Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire and mythology major
Jan 21st, 2019 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse -3Chicureo the flamer
“The Brazilian Supreme Court was incorrect.”
“Sarah Cleveland, vice-president of the UN Human Rights Commission, has condemned statements made by Brazilian officials following the UN's determination that the state should “take all necessary measures” to allow Brazilian presidential candidate Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva to “exercise his political rights” as a candidate in the October presidential elections. Speaking in an interview with swissinfo.ch Cleveland said the measures put forward by the Committee are “legally binding.”
“The precautionary measures issued are not recommendations, they are legally binding and impose an international legal obligation on Brazil to fulfill them,” she said. ... But warned that “failure to comply with the precautionary measures would mean that Brazil would be violating” international treaties to which it is a signatory.
The UN Human Rights Commission issued the decision on August 17,
”Presumption of innocence could not be regarded as an ‘absolute’,(Moro) he declared: it was merely a ‘pragmatic instrument’ that could be over-ridden at the will of the magistrate. Leaks to the media he celebrated as a form of ‘pressure’ on defendants, where ‘legitimate aims cannot be achieved by other methods.’“
Crisis in Brazil. Perry Anderson
“The fact that there is no physical evidence implicating Lula led Mark Weisbrot, writing in the New York Times”
Did someone mention me...?
Jan 22nd, 2019 - 01:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0I never said nuffin guv....
Chicureo the flamer
Jan 22nd, 2019 - 02:10 am - Link - Report abuse -3“Yet crucially, there is no evidence that Lula either owned or lived in the triplex at any point. Beyond the suspicious activity with apartment 164-A, the court cited no evidence that directly implicated Lula in a quid pro quo with OAS. Instead, it argued that because it is known that OAS was taking kickbacks from Petrobras, and Lula was the sitting president at the time, it is reasonable to infer that he was aware and complicit. This is, needless to say, not sufficient evidence to convict someone beyond a reasonable doubt. And indeed, according to several analysts, no European or American court would have ruled to convict based on the evidence presented”
http://www.brownpoliticalreview.org/2018/03/brazils-democratic-woes-anti-elitism-reemergence-illiberalism/
Terry
Jan 22nd, 2019 - 12:20 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Oh forgive me for doubting your excellent and clearly astute observations that because the world gold trading futures declined, it triggered the Brazilian economic ressesion which in turn upset a lot of samba loving folks to fill the streets in anger and rage demanding a change in their political leadership.
You're right Terry, I expect that we'll sonn see the UN send in special forces to release Lula in prison and to annul the recent Presidential election.
Like I said the BBC has a great 3 episode documentary about what happened that's well worth watching.
@Voice
Jan 22nd, 2019 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Lol. Poor Terry can't keep up with who's who, no wonder he likes to pretend you and Think are the same person. Don't tell him, but I'm pretty sure Patrick Edgar is really Chicureo, Jack Bauer is secretly Think, and I am actually Kanye. ;)
Chicureo the flamer
Jan 22nd, 2019 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse -2I realise as a yokel, you're a lot closer to the “village idiot” than the expert opinions who have squarely laid at the door-step of you and your ilk, a major responsibility for the malnutrition of '50% of Chilean children, fifteen and under'.
“BBC has a great 3 episodes” No it has only 2 available.
“Yet crucially, there is no evidence that Lula either owned or lived in the triplex at any point. Beyond the suspicious activity with apartment 164-A, the court cited no evidence that directly implicated Lula in a quid pro quo with OAS. Instead, it argued that because it is known that OAS was taking kickbacks from Petrobras, and Lula was the sitting president at the time, it is reasonable to infer that he was aware and complicit. This is, needless to say, not sufficient evidence to convict someone beyond a reasonable doubt. And indeed, according to several analysts, no European or American court would have ruled to convict based on the evidence presented”
http://www.brownpoliticalreview.org/2018/03/brazils-democratic-woes-anti-elitism-reemergence-illiberalism/
“But warned that “failure to comply with the precautionary measures would mean that Brazil would be violating” international treaties to which it is a signatory. Sarah Cleveland, vice-president of the UN Human Rights Commission issued the decision on August 17,”
So Lula ends up in the eyes of the world at large, as both a 'prisoner of 'conscience' and a 'cause célèbre'
While you have just revealed your own 'unclean-hands'.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
“No wonder he likes to pretend” Nice bit of sucking, did you get any on you?
Terence Hill
Jan 22nd, 2019 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A minor couple of quibbles with your post.
1. “expert opinions who have squarely laid at the door-step of you and your ilk, a major responsibility for the malnutrition of '50% of Chilean children, fifteen and under”: Actually the Chilean minister of health here is alarmed with the high incidence of obesity, across all economic classes.
2. The BBC has a great THREE episodes, the third:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0c14391
I think Terry you need to learn some basic information that may enlighten your dreary day in what must be a miserable freezing day in Canada:
Terry, LGBTQIAP is the long version of LGBT.
Lesbian refers to a woman who loves other women
Gay refers to a person, often a man, who loves members or their own gender
Bisexual, or Bi, refers to a person who loves both or all genders
Transgender, or Trans, refers to a person who identifies as a different gender then what her/his birth certificate says
Queer refers to anyone who loves people of their own gender, either a gay person or a bisexual person
Intersex refers to anyone born with any of several variations in sex characteristics.
Asexual/Aromantic, or Ace/Aro, refers to a person who does not experience sexual/romantic attraction
Pansexual refers to a person who loves any person for their personality, regardless of their gender.
I hope this helps you, you certainly need the compassion, whatever you are...
Chicureo the flamer
Jan 22nd, 2019 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse -2“The BBC has a great THREE episodes, the third” No it doesn't because I checked on BBC iPlayer last night, which is the only site you can stream from.
“What Happened to Brazil...”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b0by8sn1
“you and your ilk, a major responsibility for the malnutrition of '50% of Chilean children, fifteen and under”
You quibble?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b0by8sn1copress. com/2018/12/28/netanyahu-will-visit-president-elect-bolsonaro-this-friday-in-rio/comments#comment496550
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b0by8sn1copress. com/2019/01/07/bolsonaro-in-the-process-of-purging-some-3.300-federal-staff-allegedly-communists-or-socialists/comments
What is the point of revealing your obsessions, your not that interesting.
Terry
Jan 22nd, 2019 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse +1You're doing some bad drugs or something...
If you had clicked on the link I kindly provide you, it would link you to PART THREE.
Furthermore, your links you just posted are EXACTLY THE SAME.
By the way, Lula still rots in prison, your favorite Supreme Court Justice still is hanging on to life, Bolsonaro is the star speaker at the Global Davos Summit. I'll keep you updated.
Chicureo the flamer
Jan 22nd, 2019 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse -2“you and your ilk, a major responsibility for the malnutrition of '50% of Chilean children, fifteen and under”
You quibble?
http:// en.mercopress. com/2018/12/28/netanyahu-will-visit-president-elect-bolsonaro-this-friday-in-rio/comments#comment496550
http://en.mercopress.com/2019/01/07/bolsonaro-in-the-process-of-purging-some-3.300-federal-staff-allegedly-communists-or-socialists/comments
What is the point of revealing your obsessions, you're not that interesting.
“Your dreary day in what must be a miserable freezing day..” I'm living in warm sunshine so guess again,rube.
I can watch the two episodes that are available if so choose, but being well acquainted with issue I'm not going to learn anything new from a such a summary.
“By the way, Lula..” is both a 'prisoner of 'conscience' and a 'cause célèbre' ”And indeed, according to several analysts, no European or American court would have ruled to convict based on the evidence presented”
http://en.mercopress.com/2019/01/07/bolsonaro-in-the-process-of-purging-some-3.300-federal-staff-allegedly-communists-or-socialists/commentswnpoliticalreview .org/2018/03/brazils-democratic-woes-anti-elitism-reemergence-illiberalism/
While Brazil is still a human rights pariah. “Failure to comply with the precautionary measures would mean that Brazil would be violating” international treaties to which it is a signatory. Sarah Cleveland, vice-president of the UN Human Rights Commission issued the decision on August 17,”
Terry
Jan 22nd, 2019 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse +1If you log on to the BBC website and register your preferred customer access account: https://account.bbc.com/signin
That will give you to unlimited premium access to everything, including live feed.
I'm certain you mother's basement is warm and toasty inside. Just don't go outside without your mittens...
Chicureo the flamer
Jan 22nd, 2019 - 11:55 pm - Link - Report abuse -3Don't need to tell me, I've an account since you were first required to register.
Oh here comes your Freudian 'mummy' hang-up on display again.
Terry
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 01:01 am - Link - Report abuse +1The why on earth did you say that you couldn't see part three?
You really are the village idiot here...
Chicureo the flamer
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 01:55 am - Link - Report abuse -3It clearly shows “What Happened to Brazil...” ”2 EPISODES AVAILABLE
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b0by8sn1
It's perfectly clear who the village idiot is here. Thanks for confirming you are.
@Chicureo
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 09:34 am - Link - Report abuse +1I went to your link and it says “This programme will be available shortly after broadcast”. Dunno if it's different if you're outside the UK.
Chicureo the flamer
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse -3Follow my finger, now don't blink. What does 2 EPISODES AVAILABLE mean? Quick now it's not rocket science.
DemonTree
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Terry does not have a preferred customer access account, which gives viewers advance access. Program 3 is well worth watching.
Well that was a pointless argument, then.
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse +1But how can you even watch stuff on iplayer, I thought it wasn't available abroad?
Chicureo the flamer
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse -3“Terry does not...” No such animal, I have the same preference as anyone else having an account. You're toast on your bike.
DT
“I thought it wasn't available abroad?” Like I've said, you have no idea where I live.
Wrong. You said “ I'm living in warm sunshine”. It's sunny where I am right now, but it ain't warm anywhere in the British Isles. And I was asking Chicureo, anyway.
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 03:41 pm - Link - Report abuse +1DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Like I've said, you have no idea where I live.
Then you're a liar.
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Then where do I live, Ollie?
Outside the legal coverage of BBC iPlayer.
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chicureo the flamer
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse -2“Outside the legal coverage...” Speculative at best, like all your other wild guesses
The UK in January is not warm and sunny. Either I'm right, or you lied earlier. Which is it?
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chicureo the flamer
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse -2“Which is it?” Ah the old 'and or argument'
Hey, it's not my fault you made two contradictory statements. Some might say that makes you a liar. ;)
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 11:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why d'you keep calling me Chicureo?
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 23rd, 2019 - 11:52 pm - Link - Report abuse -2“False Dilemma
Arguments that frame the debate such that only two options are possible, when other possibilities may exist.”
“how the test makers describe circular reasoning: “presupposes the truth of what it sets out to prove”
”A trick of the presuppositionalists is to hold others to impossible standards while using special pleading to excuse themselves from such justification. One cannot use reason to justify reason (that would be a form of circularity), but that is what the presuppositionalists demands. Words such as “justification,” “account for,” and “explain” all are part of the reasoning process. ... My advice, don't bother arguing circularity with the presuppositionalist. In fact, don't bother arguing with the presuppositionalist at all, since they already presuppose that they are right, and they can't possibly be wrong”
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/bg/Bo/LogicalFallacies/NY6XCqXp/Arguing-with-a-Presuppostionalist
@Terence Hill
Jan 24th, 2019 - 01:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “I personally am extremely sceptical”:
That makes TWO of us:
https://i2.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Laranja-Foro-Privilegiado.jpg?zoom=0.8999999761581421&fit=480%2C360&ssl=1
@Liar
Jan 24th, 2019 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0False dilemma and circular reasoning are not the same thing. It's really painful seeing you misuse perfectly good logical concepts.
And if you think it's a false dilemma, then what is the other option? I could come up with some, but I don't think you have the brains.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 24th, 2019 - 01:01 pm - Link - Report abuse -3”My advice, don't bother arguing circularity with the presuppositionalist. In fact, don't bother arguing with the presuppositionalist at all, since they already presuppose that they are right, and they can't possibly be wrong”
Very well. I will stop arguing with you, since that describes you perfectly.
Jan 24th, 2019 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 24th, 2019 - 05:36 pm - Link - Report abuse -3“Very well. I will stop arguing...”
Bo Bennett, PhD in Arguing with a Presuppostionalist, anticipated you and your ilk. The problem with you liars is you presuppose that sophistry is is irrefutable. Amazing that people like you with the biggest heads, always seem to have the smallest brains. I guess that's the compensation you need to shield you from the stark reality.
My goodness golly gee,
Jan 24th, 2019 - 07:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Using the word “Presuppostionalist,” always seems to be used by the smallest brains...
Comically IMPRESSIVE:
Jan 24th, 2019 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.weforum.org/events/world-economic-forum-annual-meeting/sessions/special-address-by-jair-bolsonaro-president-of-brazil
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 24th, 2019 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse -3“Using the word..” I guess you'll have to tell the good doctor Bennett. Don't forget send a copy of your CV along with your critique.
As if the Immunity + Privileges were not enough:
Jan 25th, 2019 - 12:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: BC propõe afrouxar regras para banco monitorar parente de políticos e notificar Coaf:
https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mercado/2019/01/bc-quer-que-banco-filtre-dado-do-coaf-e-deixe-de-vigiar-parente-de-politico.shtml
Heh, is this how they fight corruption? Reducing the controls so it won't be reported? How many times have we seen relatives receiving money? If anything the monitoring should be extended to employees and other associates of the politicians. And in theory the banks would be better able to determine which transactions are suspicious, but it practice their aim is to keep their customers, not detect fraud.
Jan 25th, 2019 - 09:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0@Chicureo
Yup. People think using long words makes them seem smarter, but it generally has the opposite effect. It's easy to tell whether someone knows what they are talking about or not, and pretending more knowledge than they have just makes them look foolish.
@DemonTree
Jan 25th, 2019 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “is this how they fight corruption?”
A long time ago, when I said that they'll legalize corruption gradually; NOBODY believed!
http://domtotal.com//img/charges/2426.jpg
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 25th, 2019 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse -3“People think using ...” it's a citation from an expert that totally refuted your sophistic rubbish. But, that fine point was beyond the grasp of your moronic ally.
@ :o))
Jan 25th, 2019 - 02:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lol.
And Chicureo may be a troll but he's far from moronic.
DemonTree & :o))
Jan 25th, 2019 - 02:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Terry the presuppositionalist seems to be in a “False Dilemma” as so called objectives actually frame the debate such that only two options are possible, when other possibilities may exist. This is why presuppositionalist idiots like Terry try using test makers to describe circular reasoning: “presupposes the truth of what it sets out to prove”. Terry's clear misuse and misunderstanding is based on the silly trick of the so laughingly called presuppositionalists that hold others to impossible standards while using special presuppositionalist pleading to excuse themselves from such justification. One cannot use reason to justify reason (that would be a form of circularity), but that is what the presuppositionalists demands. Words such as “justification,” “account for,” and “explain” all are part of the reasoning process. This alone clarifies why sane persons should avoid arguing circularity with the presuppositionalist. In fact, don't bother arguing with the presuppositionalist Terrence Hill at all, since they already presuppose that they are right, and they can't possibly be wrong! They even have an entry to explain what exactly a presuppositionalist like Terry actually is: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Village%20Idiot
ESCALATING POPULARITY certainly is ADMIRABLE!
Jan 25th, 2019 - 02:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://youtu.be/4W-vSqZUmfk
DemonTree
Jan 25th, 2019 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse -3“And ... he's far from moronic.” Yeah he's the bright spark who referred to experts as “village idiots“. But, as a bona fide yokel rube he's the closest to the definition, both figuratively and literally.
”This is why ...” when you use a fallacy, I rely experts like Dr. Bennett to reveal the truth of the matter.
If you disagree I guess you'll have to tell the good doctor. Don't forget send a copy of your CV along with your critique.
Terrence Hill
Jan 25th, 2019 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But is it not your post is indeed presuppositionalist?
Doesn't it seem you really are the village presuppositionalist here?
Just asking...
Have a very presuppositionalist day!
However on a very POSITIVE side; the Economic Crisis has already disappeared, fortunately! That's reason enough to celebrate the carnival & for bursting crackers:
Jan 25th, 2019 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://blogdoaftm.web2419.uni5.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/2134-820x615.jpg
DemonTree
Jan 25th, 2019 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse -3“But is it not your post..”
If you disagree I guess you'll have to tell the good doctor. Don't forget send a copy of your CV along with your critique.
Remember that he is an expert, and at best you may have attended some classes at a polytec.
FAKE-News from BBC:
Jan 25th, 2019 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Flávio Bolsonaro: entenda as suspeitas e o que o senador eleito diz sobre elas”:
https://www.bbc.com/portuguese/brasil-46994829
”They can label me anything, homophobic, racist….they just can’t call me corrupt” – Jair Bolsonaro.
Jan 25th, 2019 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse -3In a matter of weeks Brazil has been transformed into a pariah state, US Viceroyalty and an international joke. “Eu Avisei!” (I told you so!), is the chorus that greets every new scandal that hits Bolsonaro’s beleaguered new Government, and his would-be political dynasty. Connection to allegations of money laundering, illicit finance, and links to organised crime gangs so early in his Presidency is proving catastrophic for the already difficult public image of a former Army Captain elected on spurious anti-corruption rhetoric. His party PSL has descended into infighting and chaos, whilst the number of Military personnel in that Government increases daily, now occupying 21 areas of policy.”
http://www.brasilwire.com/power-corruption-and-lies-3-weeks-in-bolsonaro-regime-is-falling-apart/
Instead of reading the Communist rag Brazilwire, I suggest you read instead O Globo or something reflective of the truth.
Jan 25th, 2019 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0YET ANOTHER FAKE-NEWS:
Jan 25th, 2019 - 11:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “Brazil Weakens Law Aimed at Holding Government to Account”:
https://www.voanews.com/a/brazil-weakens-law-aimed-at-holding-government-to-account-/4758251.html
Chicureo the flamer
Jan 26th, 2019 - 12:09 am - Link - Report abuse -3“Instead of reading .. Brazilwire I suggest you read instead O Globo ...reflective of the truth.” There isn't exactly an abundance of Brazilian English language news sources. Hardly when they are one of the most biased sources.
“Globo media organisation apologises for supporting Brazil’s dictatorship
The network comes clean about working as the propaganda wing between 1964 and 1985
After nearly 50 years of denying that it had any involvement with the military regime...The apology cited the views of Robert Morinho, the founder of Globo, who claimed in 1964 that military “intervention was essential to the maintenance of democracy and to contain the outbreak of urban warfare”. Which was a known lie as it never happed until 1967.
”In 1982, Rede Globo is alleged to have been complicit in the so-called Proconsult scheme, an attempt at election fraud in the gubernatorial race of state of Rio de Janeiro. ... Rede Globo is accused of helping to elect presidential candidate Fernando Collor de Mello (owner of TV Gazeta in state of Alagoas, a Rede Globo affiliate) in the 1989 presidential election, by manipulating segments of the last, televised, pre-recorded debate between Collor and Lula .. ”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Rede_Globo
@Terence Hill:
Jan 27th, 2019 - 09:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: Mass-Media:
In order not only to survive but also to grow; it's hardly any surprise if they indulge themselves in all kinds of tactics - necessary and considered as legal [+ some, not so legal] - and deals [shady & otherwise]: REF: “5 reasons LatAm Organized Crime will strengthen in 2019”:
https://www.insightcrime.org/news/analysis/reasons-latam-organized-crime-strengthen-2019/
You do find the depressing stuff, don't you? But what they say is unfortunately very plausible.
Jan 27th, 2019 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Terry, the village bicycle (as well as 'idiot')
Jan 27th, 2019 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“In a statement, the former president's counsel said that the Justice 'decided to validate the statements' of Palocci in exchange for 'lies without evidence against the former president'.”
Oh noooo! again ?? “more lies without evidence”....this is Terryble, but on the other hand, what can we expect the “toad's” former counsel to say ? it's just the same old bs answer. But never mind, the next conviction regarding the Atibaia home, is a slam dunk...
You know Numb nuts, I feel sorry for you, having to go through such pain every time one of Lula's ex-pals squeals on him, and buries him a bit deeper in shit.
Aha, I see you are back to your old tricks .....“Nice bit of sucking, did you get any on you?”
Why the obssession with 'sucking' ? go and visit Lula, get it out of your system, but be careful not to “get any on you”.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jan 28th, 2019 - 12:03 am - Link - Report abuse -2“Oh noooo! again ?? “more lies without evidence”.. ”
“This is, needless to say, not sufficient evidence to convict someone beyond a reasonable doubt. And indeed, according to several analysts, no European or American court would have ruled to convict based on the evidence presented”
http://www.brownpoliticalreview.org/2018/03/brazils-democratic-woes-anti-elitism-reemergence-illiberalism/
@DemonTree:
Jan 28th, 2019 - 12:45 am - Link - Report abuse -1REF: “depressing stuff”
U r right! That's why Brazil is on it's way to legalize corruption! Perhaps you already knew about: “Crime without Punishment: Brazil’s Massive Contraband Trade”:
https://www.insightcrime.org/news/analysis/brazil-contraband-smuggling-trade-networks/
@ :o))
Jan 28th, 2019 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0I do remember hearing that Paraguay's president was involved in organised crime. You'd think with Paraguay being in Mercosur, Brazil and Argentina would be able to do something about this, but apparently not. AFAIK the contraband is a significant part of Paraguay's economy so they can't easily give it up. As for smuggling textiles from Bolivia, couldn't they make a trade deal so Bolivia can export them without duty to Brazil and accept some Brazilian product in return (vehicles maybe)? That would solve the problem.
@JB
Considering Terry just announced he thinks truth is irrelevant, it's quite pointless talking to him.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 28th, 2019 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Considering Terry just announced he thinks truth is irrelevant” Your usual dishonesty. “IT IS WHAT THE SPEAKER CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THAT COUNTS, NOT WHAT HE PRIVATELY THINKS. The Relevance of Intention in Argument Evaluation Charlotte Jørgensen” I'm simply paraphrasing an expert that shows your claim of “By intent I mean intent to deceive.” is patently fraudulent. http://en.mercopress.com/2019/01/17/bolsonaro-and-macri-agree-to-review-and-perfect-mercosur-and-advance-trade-talks-with-eu/comments#comment497392
“Truth or intention are irrelevant.”
Jan 28th, 2019 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 28th, 2019 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Truth or intention are irrelevant.” Yeah it pulls the rug from under liars like yourself and JB from trying to apply a standard of men rhea. Like you said, it's not a 'court', under this exclusive situation of argumentation.(the action or process of reasoning systematically in support of an idea, action, or theory)
The Relevance of Intention in Argument Evaluation Charlotte Jørgensen”
If truth is irrelevant then so is everything you say, Terryble Liar Hill. You're irrelevant.
Jan 28th, 2019 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 28th, 2019 - 01:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“To show someone is deliberately lying, you have to prove intent, and you can't.” I don't have to according to an authority, as your claim is absolutely refuted. The Relevance of Intention in Argument Evaluation Charlotte Jørgensen
@DemonTree:
Jan 28th, 2019 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “I do remember hearing that Paraguay's president was involved in organised crime”:
I was told that the organized crime is so well organized and that too at the Int'l. Level; that besides the obvious involvement of the cartels+politicians; the corporations, foundations and even the churches are involved.
The conclusion is that sooner/later, either a Cartel-Boss or a Bishop [they could also be one & the same] is very likely be a president of a South American Country [maybe it's happening already].
But THAT's Democracy - THAT's Progress!
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1637/24699275810_c232d3c872.jpg
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 28th, 2019 - 02:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“truth is irrelevant” According to you as I never said such a thing.
Liar. You said “Truth or intention are irrelevant.”
Jan 28th, 2019 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ :o))
I wonder if it has happened already?
@TH
Jan 28th, 2019 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Me : “Oh noooo! again ?? ” 'more lies without evidence' “
You : ”This is, needless to say, not sufficient evidence to convict someone beyond a reasonable doubt. And indeed, according to several analysts, no European or American court would have ruled to convict based on the evidence presented“
How Terryble, but you are so bloody stupid, you actually post what you consider a serious answer.....why bother ? you should know by now that your opinions are irrelevant to the case in question. And, according to other analysts, he got off lightly...
But regarding your mantra ”no European or American court would have ruled to convict based on the evidence presented” is pure, unadulterated bs....first, he'd never have been elected in a 1st world country, and second, if he were tried in one, for the crimes he committed here, he'd be sentenced to life in prison.
Would be better if you stuck to what you are good at, cleaning bogs and sucking. Lula's waiting for you....
@DemonTree
Jan 28th, 2019 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: I wonder if it has happened already?
Sooner or later - S00NER - most probably! The competition is severe! :o))
@JB
Jan 28th, 2019 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“he'd never have been elected in a 1st world country”
Cough*Trump*cough*Berlusconi*cough*Tsipras.
But did you see the videos of the MST occupation of the infamous triplex? The decor wasn't exactly distinctive. Or very finished looking.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 28th, 2019 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Where is there any mention of “ ... admitted you think truth or intention are irrelevant.” By me, prior to you raising the issue first at. http://en.mercopress.com/2019/01/26/bolsonaro-undergoes-surgery-on-monday-and-will-spend-ten-days-in-hospital/comments#comment497518 So who's the liar again, you claimed falsely as as there no such post of mine preceding this post of your's.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
The only opinions posted here are your biased and unqualified one; and those of a qualified impartial expert.
“No European or American court would have ruled to convict ... is pure, unadulterated bs.”
Pity you can't find can't find your own impartial expert, that's probably because none exist.
It's obvious that's what you did in the reservists. I had the pick of any trade I wanted when I joined the air force. Freud said 'Thought is a Roundabout Way of Wishing'. It's not difficult to surmise what your thoughts are, since you can't refrain from revealing them. He also said ”The Unconscious. Nothing Comes “Out of the Blue.”
And indeed, according to several analysts, no European or American court would have ruled to convict based on the evidence presented”
http://www. brownpoliticalreview.org/2018/03/brazils-democratic-woes-anti-elitism-reemergence-illiberalism/
It's linked in the comment above yours, you imbecile:
Jan 28th, 2019 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2019/01/17/bolsonaro-and-macri-agree-to-review-and-perfect-mercosur-and-advance-trade-talks-with-eu/comments#comment497490
And indeed it's not hard to work out what your thoughts are, given your obsession with sucking.
@DT
Jan 28th, 2019 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You know what I'm getting at.....no one in their right mind, say in the UK, the US, in AUS or NZL, would vote for such an ignoramus, or a person with Lula's track record... as for the others, Berlusconi and Trump, don't see how they can be used as a justification for Lula, because the situation/ reality of their countries bears little resemblance to Brazil's and Lula's.
One thing Berlusconi, Trump, and Lula (in his re-election) had in common, was the disproportionate amount of money at their disposal. The fact that the average voter is not too bright, also plays a part. How many people, in any country, really check the background of who they are voting for, instead of guiding themselves by false promises ?
Yeah, I saw several videos of the MTST invasion of the triplex. The actual construction was by no means luxurious, as when under Bancoop's responsibility, its intended occupants were ordinary federal civil servants, not millionaires. Anyway, the invasion occurred 3 and a 1/2 years after the Lavajato accused Lula of being the de-facto owner of it (+/- Nov 2014), during which time, it was abandoned and allowed to deteriorate. The fact there was only a stove in the kitchen, leads me to believe that either OAS had already removed all the furniture (which had been bought, as proved by numerous bills) and most kitchen appliances, or never got around to taking it all to the flat..
Nevertheless, a bribe is a bribe.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 28th, 2019 - 06:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I found this on a preceding thread
DT “Your quote says nothing about lying”
“The Relevance of Intention in Argument Evaluation” states it quite clearly “IT IS WHAT THE SPEAKER CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THAT COUNTS, NOT WHAT HE PRIVATELY THINKS” So truth or intention are irrelevant.'
Which was in turn preceded by your claim ”The only way you could be sure someone was lying deliberately” Is to show the initial claims, and then showing the later denials.” Which I did.
JB “Your insistence that I'm a fascist” Brazil's corruption scandals reach Lula da Silva: ...
15 Jack Bauer; “..Am pretty sure that military are accompanying all this … I hope they DO take over...”
Brazil remembers the 50th anniversary of the coupe…
@Jack Bauer
Jan 28th, 2019 - 07:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: The fact that the average voter is not too bright, also plays a part.
TRUE!
That, and many - too many - parasites of doubtful reputation + outright condemnation are enthusiastically active, with their fingers into each & every Imaginable
& Unimaginable pie; with the legal system being in their favor.
So what else can be expected? The immunities, the legal protection & the privileges in fact, are the Key-Factors - the incentives/encouragements - to be & to remain corrupt.
@JB
Jan 28th, 2019 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would have agreed with you before 2016, but it's obvious now that voters in those countries are no smarter or better informed than those in Brazil, despite having less excuse. And I think you're being a bit unfair to Trump; he had money of his own but the campaign funds he raised were much less than most of the other candidates. Though he had NO track record - reason some people voted for him, but not a very good one IMO. Honestly, the way some Americans talk you'd think their government was as corrupt and ineffective as yours.
Re the triplex, I did think it looked pretty modest for a former President. Doesn't exactly fit with the 'billions in Swiss bank accounts' image. But even if they took the furniture out, or never put it in, they wouldn't take away decorations, surely? Tiles, paint on the walls, flooring? It wasn't the best quality video, but the floors looked like bare concrete to me and all the walls were plain white. It all seems a bit fishy.
@The Liar
Exactly, you wrote “So TRUTH or intention are irrelevant.” You claimed truth is irrelevant.
Also, YOU claimed “The only way you could be sure someone was lying deliberately” Is to show the initial claims, and then showing the later denials,” not me, so that is another lie of yours. You may think truth is irrelevant, but I don't agree. Please stop lying about me.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 28th, 2019 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“YOU claimed “The only way you could ...” No I didn't you liar, you did here: http://en.mercopress.com/2019/01/17/bolsonaro-and-macri-agree-to-review-and-perfect-mercosur-and-advance-trade-talks-with-eu/comments#comment497287
“The Relevance of Intention in Argument Evaluation” states it quite clearly “IT IS WHAT THE SPEAKER CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THAT COUNTS, NOT WHAT HE PRIVATELY THINKS” “The Relevance of Intention in Argument Evaluation, Charlotte Jørgensen. There is no subjective test of intent, or whether the actor is even truthful. You say it you wear it. “THE SPEAKER CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE”. Therefore, it mimics a 'strict liability offence' the only consideration is the 'actus reus' of the actor.
”He may be lying and think something quite different from what he says, but even then he is committed to what he has said and, consequently, the listener can hold him to his word. (van Eemeren and Grootendorst, 1992, p. 32)
You linked to a comment where I never said that line you quoted. More lies from the biggest liar on MP.
Jan 28th, 2019 - 08:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And stop shouting at me. You can hold JB accountable for his words, but you can't call him a liar. They are two different things.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 28th, 2019 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“@TH THE ONLY WAY YOU COULD be sure someone was lying deliberately would be to read their mind” Is what you stated.
“But you can't call him a liar.” Oh yes I can. JB “Your insistence that I'm a fascist”
Brazil's corruption scandals reach Lula da Silva: ...
15 Jack Bauer; “..Am pretty sure that military are accompanying all this … I hope they DO take over...”
Brazil remembers the 50th anniversary of the coupe…
Says IT ALL. Just keep sucking up, but it won't put Humpty Dumpty together again.
Exactly I said:
Jan 28th, 2019 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The only way you could be sure someone was lying deliberately would be to read their mind.”
And then you claimed I said:
“Which was in turn preceded by your claim ”The only way you could be sure someone was lying deliberately” Is to show the initial claims, and then showing the later denials.””
Notice these things are different? You LIED about me. Again, you sucking LIAR. You can lie all you like, but it doesn't make it true. You are the only LIAR here.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 28th, 2019 - 11:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DT “JB has never denied that he supported the military government, BUT he doesn't believe that makes him a fascist. So he wasn't lying. Simple.”
”Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical authoritarian ultranationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy“.
TH ”The only way you could be sure someone was lying deliberately” Is to show the initial claims, and then showing the later denials. Thats how it's done sunshine, you do your homework.”
JB “Your insistence that I'm a fascist”
Brazil's corruption scandals reach Lula da Silva: ...
15 Jack Bauer; “..Am pretty sure that military are accompanying all this … I hope they DO take over...”
Brazil remembers the 50th anniversary of the coupe…
Doesn't matter what he or you believe, the evidence is the measure, not you two's denial.
Since he is accountable, and his accountability means the rejection of his claim under 'The Relevance of Intention in Argument Evaluation', Charlotte Jørgensen
”FOR OUR PURPOSES, IT IS WHAT THE SPEAKER CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THAT COUNTS, ...Over the last decades, the notion of intentionality has been challenged from various theoretical perspectives within rhetoric and argumentation.”
So he and you are accountable, nobody has to do anything other than show what he has stated, there's no escape or deniability. That makes him a fascist. So you're both caught like deers in the headlights.
I don't care what you say, Irrelevant Liar, just don't attribute your idiocies to me.
Jan 29th, 2019 - 09:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 29th, 2019 - 09:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0One hook two fish, revealed in all their ethical finery. Both exposed as unmitigated liars.
@DemonTree
Jan 29th, 2019 - 09:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “The way some Americans talk you'd think their government was as corrupt and ineffective as yours”:
Funnnny! I always suspected that theirs was the MOST corrupt country - being the largest importers of drugs. The Latin American Politicians/Presidents [including: Juan Carlos Varela, Daniel Ortega, Nicolás Maduro, Juan Orlando Hernández - to name just a few] are getting increasingly richer + more powerful with the passage of time; on account of “THIS business” with the US of A.
@DT
Jan 29th, 2019 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't get me wrong, a hell of a lot of people vote irresponsibly......if a candidate promised to give you a new house in exchange for your vote, YOU would immy see thru the bs, but most wouldn't. When you listen to many Americans, randomly interviewed on the street, or during some protest march, most can't even express themselves coherently, or don't even know why they are there...
As I said, the triplex was far from being luxurious, but it was quite in line with what Lula and his wife were used to....have you seen his apartment in SBCampo ? a modest building, in a not very pretty neighbourhood....I don't think luxury was ever on the top of his list of priorities. Although of course, high-end kitchen appliances make all the difference, even in a modest home.
The decorations, or furniture (at the triplex) what's the difference ? pictures hanging on the wall, lamps, carpets ? easily removed, especially after OAS realized Lula would never take possession of the flat. Re flooring, 99% of inexpensive beach homes have tiled floors, or, what they call “cimento queimado” ('burnt' cement) which after being sanded, gives a very uniform, light, smooth finish....
The Atibaia home was no different (reformed in order to store Lula's collection, the stuff he'd received while president, plus other items taken from the Presidential palace) - nothing expensive, except in the kitchen (supplied by a renowned firm called “Kitchen's”) :-
Try googleing “Reforma da cozinha do sítio de Atibaia foi discutida no churrasco com Lula e empreiteiro, diz executivo” (as told by an OAS executive who was invited to the country home for a BBQ with Paulo Gordilho, to discuss the kitchen), as well as “imagens de cozinhas Kitchen's”.....it was budgeted at well over US$ 100,000.00 ...not exactly what I call cheap.
Have only one word of advice for Terryble Terry, the Liar : stick to sucking ....
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jan 29th, 2019 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“stick to sucking ...” when you are a liar you're going to be exposed.
If you're gonna be a smartass, first you have to be smart. Otherwise you're just an ass.
To do what you state there has to be another party in the picture in order to achieve what you and your buddy have.
In addition, it has to involve servile, subservient, fawning, obsequious, sycophantic, excessively deferential, toadying, ingratiating, unctuous, grovelling, cringing, toadyish, sycophantish, abject, craven, humble, Uriah Heepish, self-abasing; informal slimy, bootlicking, sucky, soapy, forelock-tugging; North American informal brown-nosing, apple-polishing; arse-licking, bum-sucking; kiss-ass, ass-kissing, suckholing.
@Jack Bauer & @DT
Jan 29th, 2019 - 08:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: Triplex, Atibaia-Home & many other “commissions”
+/- 15 years in power - that too without pocketing “NOTHING” at all? Tsk tsk - sounds nauseatingly fraudulent; doesn't it?
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9UGRCFnAgC85gJUpUELsp2A1hqaI-J_cjD9LSY8ekAArscXbB
@JB
Jan 29th, 2019 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“99% of inexpensive beach homes”
Exactly, inexpensive. It doesn't make sense. He has a modest flat, a modest country home, he wants a modest holiday apartment - why not just pay for them himself? The article said the renovation of the house in Atibaia was costed at R210k - expensive for a kitchen, but peanuts compared to the fees an ex-President could earn for speaking. And even more trifling compared to the billions we are told has been stolen. Why wasn't Lula living in a mansion if he had so much money? Or at least in a better part of town?
And the triplex. Estadão costed the kitchen appliances discovered there at under R$20k. So where did the rest of the money go? Apart from the fact it's dirty and deteriorated - presumably the result of four years of neglect - the decor just strikes me as very impersonal. Everything white and plain, generic. Exactly how you'd decorate a flat that was to be sold to an unknown owner. Now sure you can add pictures, rugs etc, but what about a bit of colour? Tiles with patterns on maybe? How does it compare to your condo?
It also puzzles me why Lula and Marisa would want a room with four bunk beds, not to mention all the fuss over the kitchen. Were they keen cooks?
@Terryble Liar
It's obvious you would have no difficulty at all in kissing your own ass, considering how far you manage to stick your head up it...
Also, if you take the notations like “North American informal” out of your list, it will be slightly less obvious that you copied it straight from a thesaurus. But we'll know anyway, since you have no ideas of your own.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 29th, 2019 - 10:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Also, if you take...copied it straight from a..”No, no, no, the expression is 'fly straight' and copyright. To defend the indefensible shows the size of your obsession. Go ahead cuddle and commiserate, because all is revealed.
You've got your head so far up your ass you can chew your food twice
Well that made no sense. Stick to cleaning toilets, Liar.
Jan 29th, 2019 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 30th, 2019 - 01:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Stick to cleaning...”Your bosom buddy is the only one that has any knowledge on the subject. So its not hard to surmise what he was doing in the reservists.
Freud said 'Thought is a Roundabout Way of Wishing'. It's not difficult to see what his thoughts are, since he or you can't refrain from revealing them. While you're just the ingratiating echo.
He also said ”The Unconscious. Nothing Comes “Out of the Blue.”
We all know what Freud would have said about your obsession with sucking. You should stop repressing your feelings, Terry. You'd be happier, and since your frustrations would no longer drive you to slander strangers on the internet, we'd be happier too.
Jan 30th, 2019 - 09:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Lula - The Saint, is replaced by Bolsonaro - The Saint! So what exactly is new besides the absolutely normal impunity, corruption, [& oh yes - the missing driver], etc?
Jan 30th, 2019 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 30th, 2019 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“...obsession with sucking...” Is entirely yours as the sucker, to engage in it takes two parties. Your clear defence of your indefensible chum is a perfect example.
“..you to slander strangers on the internet...” Absolute poppycock, totally refuted at http://en.mercopress.com/2019/01/21/former-minister-and-advisor-confirms-payments-of-bribes-in-hand-to-lula-da-silva/comments#comment497579
@The Liar
Jan 30th, 2019 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Surely even you can find another 'party' to satisfy your frustrated desires? Wearing a bag over your head would kind of defeat the object, but you could just tell him to shut his eyes....
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 30th, 2019 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Surely even you can find...” Who am I sucking up to? It takes to to tango. It's duly noted you don't deny the accusation when it's provided evidence is irrefutable.
“Thus, who keeps silent consents; silence means consent; silent consent is same as expressed consent; consent by conduct is as good as expressed consent.” Soma's Dictionary Of Latin Quotations Maxims And Phrases
@DT
Jan 30th, 2019 - 03:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ why not just pay for them himself ? ”
Good point...but we're not referring to an honest, hard-working person. Lula never did an honest day's work in his whole life...so, from that perspective, why not accept a “gift”' in exchange for favors to OAS...“they OWE me” !!
DT, you really need to start thinking like a corrupt politician to understand Lula...and why many others act the way they do.
Regarding the Atibaia kitchen...regardless of the fact that Lula could have paid for it himself - and if he had, it would probably have been very modest, in line with the rest of it - it was all part of a package deal....you don't complain when someone gives you a nice present !!
However, Lula was an uncouth, unrefined man...when he drank expensive wines he'd gulp them down as if they were grape juice or “cachaça”....he did not see money as a means to the ostentatious life of a millionaire - he was so comfortable in his personal, very ordinary way-of-life, he even refused to better himself, by studying, when the opportunity arose.
The bunkbeds : to accomodate the extended family, all the grandchildren.
“Exactly how you'd decorate a flat that was to be sold to an unknown owner”...you said it all, 4 years of neglect, after being emptied out. And having seen Marisa L in action on a few occasions while 1st lady, can imagine her lack of (good) taste.
Your presumptions, or questions, are based on the principle that Lula was a sophisticated, cultured man, who, if had the money, would live accordingly.....but he chose to live in accordance with his lack of sophistication 'n culture.
My condo is in a good, high-value area, lots of trees, nice setting. The building itself, now 30 years old, was not a luxury condo, but when people move in, some knock down a few walls to get an open concept, renew the bathrooms and kitchen. It has 2 underground garages for 110 cars, a garden of 1,600 sq metres, plus a swimming pool..'n 11 employees.
@TH
Keep sucking....on Lula.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less'
Jan 30th, 2019 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Keep sucking..” So you recommend practice as a 'suckee' not as a 'sucker'. I decline with thanks and I'll take your word for it.
@TH
Jan 30th, 2019 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I've only recommended you keep on practising your sucking... on Lula....Presume you thanked him for allowing you to be a 'suckee'....
But I still think you are a sucker, Lula will never love you the way you love him...
@JB
Jan 30th, 2019 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I like the fact you think being President doesn't involve an honest day's work... and maybe that's true... of ALL the politicians. But I wasn't thinking 'why not accept a gift', but 'how can I get away with accepting the gift'. Being paid for a lecture, even one he doesn't give, seems far less risky than accepting favours directly, and if it results in a similar amount of money, why take the riskier option? He'd already seen the Mensalão scandal unfold and his friends go to jail, you'd think that would make him more cautious.
And I'm not particularly assuming Lula was sophisticated or cultured, but if he had simple tastes then where did the money go? Why would OAS need to spend so much on the triplex, with seemingly so little result? And then there's the disparity between the amount spent on the kitchen in Atibaia, and the value of the triplex appliances as calculated by Estadão. How do you explain that?
You've accused Lula of being the mastermind of a web of bribery, but now you say he had a very ordinary way of life. Why bother, then? Take his presidential salary, earn some big-bucks telling his rags-to-riches tale to executives, live simply and leave the corruption to others. Which is pretty much what he claimed.
Re your condo, you make it sound nicer than Lula's apartment! But have you made any changes to the inside? If you moved out tomorrow, taking all your stuff, would it look different to when you moved in? (Ignoring wear and tear.)
@The Liar
It's not my job to deny your lies. You've proven yourself to be both untruthful and incapable of reason, so there is no point debating with you.
And you are *definitely* a sucker. And you suck.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less'
Jan 30th, 2019 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I appreciate your candour, you continue to enjoy the reassurances of your ingratiator. But rest assured every time you state something that is untrue I'll remind you with the facts.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
“You've proven..” everything I've revealed about your narrative. So go and enjoy a nice commiseration together.
“You are definitely...” Unlike you I'm not ingratiating myself with anyone else posting here.
Que otário. Pobre Terry, Lula nunca vai amar você.
Jan 30th, 2019 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 30th, 2019 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To ingratiate yourself the parties have to be in the loop like.
DT “JB has never denied that he supported the military government, BUT he doesn't believe that makes him a fascist. So he wasn't lying. Simple.”
JB “Your insistence that I'm a fascist”
Brazil's corruption scandals reach Lula da Silva: ...
15 Jack Bauer; “..Am pretty sure that military are accompanying all this … I hope they DO take over...”
Brazil remembers the 50th anniversary of the coupe…
Where in the face of evidence to the contrary, have I so persisted like you, with any other poster.
So thanks for reconfirming who the liar is here.
Don't worry Liar, you're doing a great job kissing your own ass.
Jan 30th, 2019 - 09:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 30th, 2019 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Liar, you're doing a great job...”Unfortunately, you're unable to produce any evidence of such. Whereas we have a full display of your behaviour. “DT “JB has never denied that he supported the military government, BUT he doesn't believe that makes him a fascist. So he wasn't lying. Simple.” Thats what you must presuppose and reader is.
”or the wretched conceit of a liar, in supposing himself clever enough to invent stories so ingenious that they shall, for any time, impose on people for the truth, and the still grosser folly in imagining, as he must do, that the world will, without investigation and analysis, take for granted anything he chooses to assert that world more shrewd, more cunning, and as prying as himself what a conceited ass must the liar be! How superior over others in cunning must he not believe himself! What fools must he not suppose the rest of mankind!
Charles William Day, The Maxims, Experiences, and Observations of Agogos
Grasp your ears firmly and pull; you might just be able to remove your head from your ass.
Blah blah blah, more irrelevant quotes from people who aren't irrelevant fools. I'm happy you include me in your quotes, because unlike you I have something to say.
Jan 30th, 2019 - 11:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 30th, 2019 - 11:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Unlike you I have something to say..”which is obviously, and patently untrue. As what your claiming is “That he supported the military government, ... doesn't ... makes him a fascist.” I don't know how to put any gentler. But, those who support and call for a return of a dictatorship, psst... they're called fascists.
What, like Stalists? Castro's supporters? Psst... they're called communists.
Jan 30th, 2019 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fascists support a fascist dictatorship. But not all dictators are fascist.
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