MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Lava Jato leaks: Calls for Minister Moro to resign
Brazil’s Justice Minister Sergio Moro faced intense pressure on Tuesday after leaked personal messages raised doubts about his impartiality as the judge overseeing landmark corruption cases, with an influential newspaper calling on him to resign. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesBugger Moro he is prima facia a corrupt political judge. What about Lula who is the object of his evil act?
Jun 12th, 2019 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse -1Now the morally depraved are trying to have Greenwald deported. He is legally protected under the law from deportation, as he has two dependent children. Besides, not committing any no known offence in law.
REF: “Moro will appear before the Senate judiciary committee next week to explain the leaked messages”:
Jun 12th, 2019 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0I Repeat: ANY Politician = CORRUPT [N0 Holds Barred]
http://www.chargeonline.com.br/php/charges/AUTO_sid.jpg
The hunter has been hunted. He fell from high, poor Sergio, and will take with him a good part of the infamous lawfare strategies. No doubt this judge of Italian descent was looking at becoming a “blond” to the dominant elites, which may have motivated him to go well beyond his functions to become prosecutor, judge and conspirator -- all in one man.
Jun 12th, 2019 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To become a what?
Jun 12th, 2019 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Geeeeee....
Jun 12th, 2019 - 05:17 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Things are moving FAST...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IXk3k6EZh2M
THINK is happy...
REF: “Calls for Minister Moro to resign”:
Jun 12th, 2019 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the worst possible scenario; it may be a Front-Door Exit and Back-Door Entry!
Bolsonaro's choice of justice minister doesn't look so good now.
Jun 13th, 2019 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse +1Lula Sees Collusion in Lava Jato Messages between Moro and Deltan
Jun 13th, 2019 - 11:53 am - Link - Report abuse -1Lawyers will discuss with Lula a strategy to try to annul his guilty verdict
Lawyer José Roberto Batochio, one of ex-President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva (PT) defenders, revealed that Lula was surprised by two elements of the released messages between the Lava Jato prosecutors and ex-judge Sergio Moro: how rapid the “truth was revealed” and the “promiscuity” of the messages.
The Intercept Brazil published messages that show that former judge Sergio Moro and prosecutor Deltan Dallagnol collaborated when they were part of the Lava Jato task force.
According to Batochio, the Lula stated that “truth gets sick, but it never dies.”
“We did not expect [the truth] to be revealed so quickly. The second reason for the surprise was the degree of promiscuity revealed in the dialogue exchanges by this system. He believed that this did not come to light so quickly because the scheme here is so well structured, so organized that it was practically open to challenge, and no sooner had journalism brightened up this episode that was secret, scary, in that country?” the lawyer said.
https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/internacional/en/brazil/2019/06/lula-sees-collusion-in-lava-jato-messages-between-moro-and-deltan.shtml
Waiting for enlightenment about this new development from turnipy Anglo-Argie-Brasilian terminator of street kiddos before they become hard criminals..., “Jack Bauer”...
Jun 13th, 2019 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eKmRkS1os7k&t=9121s
Stink
Jun 13th, 2019 - 07:03 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Always ready to oblige....but in this case, perhaps you, Gollum and Reekie are counting your Chubut chickens before they hatch.
As for Mr. Juan Gonzalez, a 'progressive' - meaning left-wing - journalist and investigative reporter - from whom I'd expect no less - I wouldn't put too much faith into his conclusions, otherwise, in the near future you might be doing what Gollum always does when he pisses out the pot - i.e., allege that he was only quoting the source....capisce ?
Seems the Rio street kiddos episode really struck a nerve, didn't it, Pussy Stink ?
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jun 13th, 2019 - 10:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Always ready to oblige ... from whom I'd expect no less - I wouldn't put too much faith into his conclusions”
It's noted you're unable to refute the truth of his contentions. While you allude to others motives, it confirms that what I had stated all along was correct. Which was based on a life time of studying injustices, and how they occur. While your motive is quite clear.
12 Jack Bauer; “..'Military dictatorship', ..history is showing,.. that it was good for Brazil
http://en .mercopress.com/2015/07/17/brazil-s-corruption-scandals-reach-lula-da-silva-probe-into-influence-peddling/comments#comment406602
15 Jack Bauer; “..Am pretty sure that military are accompanying all this … I hope they DO take over...”
Brazil remembers the 50th anniversary of the coupe…
I'll give another prediction, based on the empirical evidence. That the driving force behind these unhappy circumstances is the US. Lula may not receive a just remedy, it depends how pervasive the corruption is. What is important is the evidence absolutely exonerates Lula. If there is any justice Moro should be barred from ever practicing law again.
Lula must be freed and new elections held!
Jun 14th, 2019 - 02:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0At the bottom of all, it's the fact that the political right is backward, reactionary and anti-poor. As a result, the right could not win an election by telling electors the truth about their intentions. Nor can they bring about an honest election campaign. No sir -- instead, the right needs to resort to dirty tricks in order to win.
Jun 14th, 2019 - 03:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Current Argentina president Mauricio Macri got elected by telling electors the exact opposite of what he was planning to do.
Brazil's current president Jair Bolsonaro won the election after the main candidate was securely put behind bars.
And these are only two examples.
@EM
Jun 14th, 2019 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“ it's the fact that the political right is backward, reactionary and anti-poor”....the “fact” ??
Well, you've been really well brainwashed, but I suppose I should believe that all the mess in Brazil right now has absoutely nothing to do with 14 years of Lula, Dilma and the PT....and that the Maduro and his socialist party (left-wing ???) have nothing to do with the sh*t VZ is in.
As usual, brilliant conclusions. You'd do even better if you stuck to Argentina's affairs.
JB
Jun 14th, 2019 - 10:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You'd do even better if you stuck to Argentina's affairs.”
You may keep ranting about the left at a time when we are getting evidence of the Machiavellian plot by the Brazilian right, concocted to avoid the favourite candidate of the electors to win the election.
The political right is there to ensure those who have more keep making more and when those who have nothing revolt, they will use the powers of the state to crush them.
Don't you believe it? Ask Sergio Moro.
@Enrique Massot
Jun 15th, 2019 - 01:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: Mauricio Macri got elected by telling electors the exact opposite of what he was planning to do.
Is that supposed to be an Earth-Shaking News?
https://duploexpresso.com/?p=105578
In Glen Greenwald's recent interview of Lula he asked, that given that his administration was good for the rich oligarchs in Brazil, why where they so opposed to PT. Lula's answer was that it is “cultural”. The oligarchs are so oppressive that they do not want to see Brazilians in “their” airports, malls, .... The only time they want to see them is when they are acting as their servants.
Jun 15th, 2019 - 05:22 am - Link - Report abuse +1So, are the oligarchs in Brazil Brazilians? The answer is no. They are, in effect, colonialists who oppress the Brazilian people.
Why should a WRONG person be blamed?
Jun 15th, 2019 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.otempo.com.br/image/contentid/policy:1.2195964:1560468099/CHARGE-O-TEMPO.jpg?f=3x2&q=0.6&w=620&$p$f$q$w=a6a92ba
RT
Jun 15th, 2019 - 01:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The oligarchs are so oppressive that they do not want to see Brazilians in “their” airports, malls, .... The only time they want to see them is when they are acting as their servants.”
You hit the nail in the head. The existence of backward oligarchies in Latin America is what has kept the subcontinent in a state of shameful inequality and sub development -- for them, even capitalism is too much 'to the left.'
To understand the concept, one must compare the model of land distribution in Latin America and in North America.
In the US and Canada, farmland was distributed in economic-sized units, to maximize productivity and the viability of capitalist modes of production.
In Latin America, as soon as the original peoples were out of the picture, the land was distributed to the most wealthy and influential families, in sizes that defy imagination (100,000 hectares, one million hectares etc). This helped create small elites immensely rich and atrociously reactionaries. Their progeny today have the same mindset and Mauricio Macri, whose maternal side of the family are large landowners, is a clear example: An enemy of developing domestic production, his only goal is to produce huge harvests which will bring dollars in droves -- being, of course, subject to the ups and downs of commodities.
Oh, and those people can die for the US or any West European country, which is where they send their kids to be educated and where they go for holidays, in an effort to acquire some “varnish of civilization.”
@EM / @RT
Jun 15th, 2019 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “The only time they want to see them is when they are acting as their servants”:
And of course at the time of elections too!
https://toligadojm.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/6666666666662.jpeg
Based on “a massive archive of previously undisclosed materials,” The Intercept is reporting that judge Sérgio Moro ... secretly aided the prosecution in Lula’s case, an egregious ethical violation in a justice system that depends upon the impartiality of the presiding magistrate. ... Internal communications involving Operation Car Wash’s chief prosecutor Deltan Dallagnol also reveal that decisions about Lula’s case last year were made with explicitly partisan motives in mind: Lula was barred from being interviewed by Brazil’s leading newspaper out of fears that it might help Fernando Haddad. ... These findings offer fresh evidence ... that the prosecution against Lula, the most popular president in the country’s history, was motivated by political animus and sustained by flimsy evidence. ... The Intercept is injecting itself directly into ongoing debates around fake news, the role of the press, and the use of hacked or anonymously leaked information in investigative journalism. ... “When making these judgments, we employ the standard used by journalists in democracies around the world: namely, that material revealing wrongdoing or deceit by powerful actors should be reported.
Jun 15th, 2019 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://newrepublic.com/article/154150/conspiracy-discredit-brazils-left
@Terence Hill
Jun 15th, 2019 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “a massive archive of previously undisclosed materials”:
WORTH INVESTIGATING: What these Crooks are conniving with/against each other, will NEVER be known!
@DT
Jun 15th, 2019 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“at a time when we are getting evidence of the Machiavellian plot by the Brazilian right, concocted to avoid the favourite candidate of the electors to win the election”.
Funny, so iyo, the “plot” was concocted beginning 2014, while he was trying to get Dilma re-elected. It was “concocted” only to make sure that when he declared all he wanted was to relax, spend time with his grandchildren 'n that he had to intention of running again, he meant it.....also, it was a mere coincidence he only decided to run again after he was accused of corruption....but of course, as I said, a mere coincidence.
“The political right is there to ensure those who have more keep making more”...Wrong. The pension reform has one main objective, besides trying to make Brazil viable again...to relieve the contribution of the poor, while maintaining the level of benefit, and to transfer the burden to those who are better off....the latter will contribute more, and receive less....unless you have actually read the proposal, and have understood what is in it, may I respectfully suggest you stop talking through your elbows....The PT always ensured that the 'elite' was happy, as a happy elite translated into a happy (and very rich) PT.
And while I'm at it, I'm curious to know who, in your opinion, makes up those “who have more, keep making more” ??? I'd say .....the banks....and just what happened to the poor banks during the PT administrations ? they never made such big profits.
Who favoured Odebrecht, OAS and a handful of other large construction companies with taxpayer money (BNDES) at rates that no other Brazilian had access to ? Who has paid the price of PT irresponsibility ?
What happened to Petrobras ....besides losing 90% of it's market value between 2007 n 2012 - screwing foreign and local investors alike - it almost went bankrupt. Ask why.
Reekie, your rant is purely ideological, nothing to do with fact. As I said, don't talk about what you haven't the slightest clue.
@Jack Bauer
Jun 15th, 2019 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “As I said, don't talk about what you haven't the slightest clue”
TRUE!
The Rock-Bottom Reality - the ABSOLUTE Truth - can NEVER be known; thanx to the [supposed to be] Impartial-Media & a Gigantic Propaganda-Machines!
Hence, as I mentioned earlier: The Best Government is the only ONE which helps a vast majority to improve the Standard/Quality of their Everyday-Life while drastically reducing the Cost of Living - and FU*K the Ideologies/Belief-Systems! No matter how crooked the politicians are; because if they weren't, they wouldn't be in politics and besides; would NEVER last in politics!
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jun 16th, 2019 - 12:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hopefully, “transfer the burden to those who are better off....” to those who have disgustingly disproportionate pensions, to certain persons that have received disproportionate pensions for government employment. Such as judiciary, civil service, and military and the like.
@TH
Jun 16th, 2019 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “disgustingly disproportionate pensions”:
It all boils down to:
“Let's take the masses for a ride; as in any case, they are either ignorant or brainwashed or both”!
http://blogs.correiobraziliense.com.br/aricunha/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/2018/04/OLIVEIRA-060317-DG-551x420.jpg
”General Augusto Heleno's deplorable attack on journalists this morning (June 14), exposes his hatred of President Lula and all that he represents for the suffering Brazilian people. It is a pathological hatred that overflows in the moment in which the truth about the judicial farce that led Lula to unjust and illegal imprisonment has been confirmed for Brazil and the world.
Jun 16th, 2019 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In demanding “life imprisonment” for Lula, the general showed contempt for the Brazilian Constitution, which provides no such penalty for anyone. His speech is a clear threat to the Federal Supreme Court, which is about to judge the suspicion of former judge Sergio Moro in the action in which he condemned the former president in illegal collusion with the Lava Jato Task Force...”
Gleisi Hoffmann Presidenta Nacional do Partido dos Trabalhadores
https://pt.org.br/gleisi-hoffmann-general-expoe-odio-a-lula-e-ameaca-instituicoes/?fbclid=IwAR2_gtd3lR-CnMXlH7uZJfkyzoDQqeMgejblEUzjJGNuKNGZUE_PWHcjSIg
@DT
Jun 16th, 2019 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Apologise for addressing my last post (5th above) to you....it was meant for Reekie.
@Gollum
“...to those who have disgustingly disproportionate pensions, to certain persons that have received disproportionate pensions for government employment. Such as judiciary, civil service, and military and the like”.....
EXACTLY, Gollum, it's finally sunk into your thick, slimy skull, that one of the objectives of the pension reform is to make the pension system fairer. Only thing that's a wee bit off, is your mention of the military....which I can understand, given that the RAF forced you to clean lavatories with your toothbrush...BTW, do you have any teeth left in your skull ?
As far as Gen Heleno's hatred for Lula, you are right...again...wow !!!....but Lula's legacy will be one of corruption and of screwing the people out of a decent future, with the feeble excuse that the BF took them “out of poverty”.....my heart bleeds for Lula.
Sadly, you see conspiracy everywhere, against you hero, the toad....just as slimy as you are, eating flies in the basement.
I'd go one further, I'd execute the toad. There, I've given to something new to repeat 'ad nauseam' or, until the cows come home....bringing your precious flies with them.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jun 17th, 2019 - 01:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ah we know that anything you claim is a lie like your claim that Heleno wasn't in Haiti.
“Blame the source for misguiding you.” The source was accurate, you're simply lying again.
As Brazilian Government records confirm
Institutional Security Office
Augusto Heleno
“He was then appointed to be the first Military Commander of the United Nations Stabilization Mission in Haiti, led by Brazil, a position he held from May 2004 to September 2005.”
http://www. brazil.gov.br/government/ministers/institutional-security-office?TSPD_101_R0=cc4a28ecd8159fe39d32d86eac12564de230000000000000000cbcb5c51ffff00000000000000000000000000005d06cc4300b4ab831f08282a9212ab2000ed6a5aa3721ab18d8a8041f04e367ebfc4c56f309b21a7888c62c0bd515c88f00827462fc80a2800376e8fdfde3e80d7309e2223a2dea9fe888c5a980fbac939703339873704cd02d1b0f850b4ff29dc
Brazil’s military dictatorship: General Heleno Is home from Haiti to roost
By Dady Chery, Oct. 31, 2018
the retired General Augusto Heleno Ribeiro Pereira. ... In his capacity as MINUSTAH commander, Ribeiro Pereira is associated with a notorious massacre on July 6, 2005 in the Port-au-Prince slum neighborhood of Cite Soleil, after which he quickly returned to Brazil ... In that report, MINUSTAH described a firefight that “lasted over seven hours during which time their forces expended over 22,000 rounds of ammunition,” and an operation that involved 1,440 troops: 1,000 who “secured the perimeter” and 440 who engaged in a raid. It has been suggested that Ribeiro Pereira left Haiti for fear of “being hauled before an international court for war crimes.”
https://canada-haiti.ca/content/brazils-military-dictatorship-general-heleno-home-haiti-roost
REF: “Lava Jato leaks:”
Jun 17th, 2019 - 01:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0While the Hackers+Jokers are at play; at least somewhere it's “Business as Usual” AT LAST!
http://www.chargeonline.com.br/semana/2019/sinovaldo160619.jpg
@Gollum
Jun 17th, 2019 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“Ah we know that anything you claim is a lie like your claim that Heleno wasn't in Haiti”
Gollum, while I have always said and sent links proving, beyond any doubt, that MOURÃO never served in Haiti....Gen Augusto Heleno did...and I never said he didn't.
Are u feeling faint, not enough flies to eat in the basement ?
But TBH, I agreed with you TWICE ....doesn't that give me some brownie points ?
You keep on posting stale news.....take a look at the date of the newspapers when they are dumped in the basement. Since you use them as 'bumf', can understand that trying to read through shit smears can be difficult, even for a trained lavatory cleaner like you.
Economic Overhaul/Reforms are strictly necessary while the Economic-Drainage continues NON-STOP:
Jun 17th, 2019 - 11:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.reuters.com/article/odebrecht-bankruptcy/update-1-brazils-odebrecht-files-for-bankruptcy-after-years-of-corruption-probes-idUSL2N23O1FY
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jun 18th, 2019 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Mourão, together with General Augusto Heleno, were Brazil’s top military commanders in its disastrous intervention in Haiti. According to international observers and human rights organizations, they are responsible for massacring dozens of civilians in the slums of Port au Prince in 2006. Now, they stand close to the highest political office in Brazil.”
https://www. jacobinmag.com/2018/10/bolsonaro-military-pt-haiti-lava-jato-lula
Whether the authors got it wrong as to Mourão is incidental. The point is the stint in Haiti didn't appear to serve the army or Brazil's interests very well. ”According ... , some 300 heavily armed men ... and murdered 63 people, leaving another 30 wounded. ... a complaint to the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights (IACHR), based on testimonies from residents and a report prepared by the Center for Global Justice and Harvard University (USA). In the document, the MINUSTAH was accused of allowing abuses to occur, favoring impunity and contributing to the wave of violence in the Caribbean country.“ https://www.brasildefato.com.br/2019/03/19/ghosts-of-massacre-in-haiti-haunt-bolsonaro-government-generals/
”Were the freedom fighters “resisting” because they decided the govt was corrupt (on the day after the military took over) or because they wanted to install a communist government ?“
There was no resistance until 1967, three years later. There never was evidence of any desire to install such government.
”As far as Gen Heleno's“ a dangerous man, a loose cannon, who has no control over his infantile excesses. Makes a statement, indicating his desire to overturn any and all legal restraints, and has been accused of 'war crimes.'
”Lula's legacy” Is he is a wrongly convicted political prisoner, by a corrupt judge. Who by his own communications record appears implicated, as an agent of American interests. I see 'clear and convincing' evidence for such a claim.
@Terence Hill / @Jack Bauer
Jun 18th, 2019 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “Mourão+General Augusto Heleno, were Brazil’s top military commanders in its disastrous intervention in Haiti”:
So now they are better Experienced+Qualified in creating disasters elsewhere - & more economically too:
https://expressoilustrado.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/cazo-brasilia-1.jpg
@:o))
Jun 18th, 2019 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Can I give you some advice ? it's free ! Don't fall for Gollum's shit. You at least, understand Portuguese, so read below, taken from the site of the “Exercito Brasileiro”..
Quote” Comandantes militares visitam o Brabat 21
Porto Príncipe (Haiti) – De 17 a 21 de março, o Batalhão de Infantaria de Força de Paz do 21º Contingente Brasileiro (BRABAT 21) na Missão das Nações Unidas para a Estabilização no Haiti (MINUSTAH) recebeu a visita de uma comitiva liderada pelo Comandante de Operações Terrestres, General de Exército Araken de Albuquerque, e pelo Comandante Militar do Sul, Gen de Exército Antônio Hamilton Martins Mourão“. Unquote
Clear to see , by ”recebeu a visita de uma comitiva liderada pelo Comandante de Operações Terrestres, General de Exército Araken de Albuquerque, e pelo Comandante Militar do Sul, General de Exército Antônio Hamilton Martins Mourão“, that Gen Mourão only VISITED Haiti, from 17 to 21st March...in a Committee headed by himself & General Arakem de Albuquerque.
You can search the whole site of the Brazilian Army - and any other (”serious”, well understood) - and nowhere will you see anything that even remotely suggests Mourão ever “served” in Haiti....Gollum can't prove the contrary - because it's not true - 'n that really upsets him...he'd rather stick to his lie, mistake - call it whatever you want - before he'll admit he pissed out the potty (his mother left in the basement for him).
Gollum's “Whether the authors got it wrong as to Mourão is incidental”; “incidental” ? so, “not important” ? they “got it wrong”, deliberately.....and 'that' is the basis of Gollum's whole argument ! well, it's just like him...100% fake.
And of course, he then goes off at a tangent, changing the subject....
As for his saying (in a previous post) Capt. Charles Chandler got what he deserved - killed in Brazil by Dilma's gang - because the lefties claim he was a torturer... in “Vietnam”, just shows what a despicable, slimy, piece of shit he is.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jun 18th, 2019 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Gollum can't prove the contrary”
I have never stated an opinion one way or another. I have simply quoted verbatim the copy of professional journalists. If you've got an issue with them, then that's who you need to address it too. Since, for my purpose it was to illustrate the pickle they had got into in Haiti, under the leadership of a current cabinet member.
@JB
Jun 18th, 2019 - 10:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When the criminals behead each other in jail, or get shot by the police, you think they got what they deserved, right? So why not the same for a war criminal? (Torture is against the Geneva conventions.)
As for Gollum, when he gets something wrong it's 'incidental', but if you do, he literally spends years following you around the site accusing you of lying. If you cut him open you'd see the word hypocrite running through every inch, like a stick of rock.
And now he's straight up lying again. His original purpose in posting that article was to try and discredit Mourão, then he refused to admit Mourão never served in Haiti and posted a mistranslated Facebook comment to try and 'prove' it, then he blamed the journalist for his mistake. Now he lies that you said Heleno wasn't in Haiti (another 'mistake of fact'?), and denies every having an opinion. Five stars for dishonesty!
@Jack Bauer
Jun 19th, 2019 - 02:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: Mourão
One thing is true - his comments sound more sensible!
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jun 19th, 2019 - 10:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0“That you said Heleno wasn't in Haiti” The writers say both were there as I have shown, therefore your issue, is with them.
Mea culpa Heleno was in Haiti as I wrote earlier at https://en.mercopress.com/2019/06/12/lava-jato-leaks-calls-for-minister-moro-to-resign/comments#comment501859
Keep sucking buttercup, keep on being an apologist for a chronic liar. 'A man is known by the company he keeps' Aesop
@DT
Jun 19th, 2019 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Have never seen such a liar, a manipulator of the truth, as Gollum. And he's proud of it.
His “I have never stated an opinion one way or another. I have simply quoted verbatim the copy of professional journalists. If you've got an issue with them, then that's who you need to address it too.”
Well, partially true, he “never stated an opinion”, because he doesn't have one....he uses other peoples quotes to back his fake narrative.
He always tries to pass the buck - I have said before and will repeat, IF you forward a link or a text, to back up your 'opinion', it's tantamount to believing it (or most of it) - otherwise you've gotta be a complete asshole to post it - and being just as responsible.
I couldn't give a sh*t who the journalists are (probably some semi-illiterate idiots who don't understand Portuguese, or English, very well), it's not them posting their crap on here, it's Gollum.
The fact he gets his “truths” from Brasilwire, jacobinshit, averdadedelua, Brasil247, says it all.
”When the criminals behead each other in jail, or get shot by the police, you think they got what they deserved, right? So why not the same for a war criminal? (Torture is against the Geneva conventions.)“
Ok, let's go by parts : ”When the criminals behead each other in jail, they got what they deserved“...in 90% of the cases, yes. A few probably get involved involuntarily.
”...or get shot by the police“....not necessarily - but if the are armed and fire back, yes.
”So why not the same for a war criminal? (Torture is against the Geneva conventions.)“
For a ”war criminal“, depends on whether the ”war” was declared or not, as the Geneva convention hardly covers what happened during the military regime. And since no one ever talked about it, how do we know that the guerrillas didn't torture the military members they caught before killing them ? You always presume the left did nothing bad, and was not to blame, but the military were. where's your sense of impartiality ?
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jun 19th, 2019 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I couldn't give a sh*t who the journalists are” Neither could anyone else give a hoot what the unproven narrative of a former shipping clerk is, who's only other experience was in the pioneer corp of the reservists.
'A ”war criminal“, depends on whether the ”war” was declared or not'. Sheer sophistry, as it is not the only international law that could be invoked for such a crime. It could also be considered as 'a crime against humanity'
Brazil’s Prosecutor-General Touts Impartiality of Corruption Probe. JULY 20, 2017
“Brazilian prosecutors and law enforcement have been at the forefront of the anti-corruption fight over the last few years,” US Acting Assistant Attorney General Kenneth Blanco said in a keynote address. Operation Car Wash, especially the guilty verdict levelled at Lula, “Put Brazil at the forefront of countries that are working to fight corruption both at home and abroad,” Blanco said.
However, “without international legal cooperation, it would be impossible to do what we have been doing,” said Janot.
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/brazil-s-prosecutor-general-touts-impartiality-of-corruption-probe
@Terry
Jun 19th, 2019 - 10:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Mea culpa Heleno was in Haiti”
Well done for admitting you were wrong. Better later than never.
@JB
Yup, Terry doesn't have an opinion of his own, he just borrows other people's. It was reasonable enough for him to believe the journalist at first, but not to keep insisting on it against all the evidence, and pretending his misread Facebook comment was better evidence than the Brazilian army website, just because it agreed with what he had claimed.
”...or get shot by the police“....not necessarily - but if the are armed and fire back, yes.“
Agree with that, and not all the criminals in jail are murderers, or have committed horrible crimes. But as for war crimes, the Vietnam war definitely counts, and torture is a crime regardless whether done during a war or peacetime.
”since no one ever talked about it“
Not to say it couldn't have happened once or twice, but if they made a habit of it, then someone would have talked. And the torture wasn't done for kicks; the army were trying to get information on the revolutionaries. Did the latter ever capture anyone high up in the military or government, who might actually have had useful knowledge to make them worth torturing?
”You always presume the left did nothing bad”
I presume they robbed banks, kidnapped people, and killed some, because that's what I've heard they did. That's reasonable, no?
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jun 19th, 2019 - 11:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Well done for admitting you were wrong. Better later than never.”
All that happened was an error, the saddle was on the wrong horse. Moreover, “Equity regards substance rather than form.”. As I've said many times, E&OE Errors and omissions excepted. The infantile general, seeing his recent nut-bar tantrums. I can really understand why there was such a serious cock up in Haiti. It explains why he was so rapidly brought back to Brazil. He has made his view on the Constitution known, he believes his judgement is sufficient to override any all its constraints.
@DemonTree
Jun 20th, 2019 - 10:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “I presume they robbed banks, kidnapped people, + killed some, because that's what I've heard they did”
Are you referring to the past glory?
Cheer-Up! Better days are here again!
https://www.otempo.com.br/image/contentid/policy:1.2198047:1560896531/CHARGE%20O%20TEMPO.JPG?f=3x2&q=0.6&w=620&$p$f$q$w=904c3fd
What on earth does that mean, :o))?
Jun 20th, 2019 - 03:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@DT
Jun 20th, 2019 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Regarding Gollum’s above rant on ‘war criminals’ it’s all very nice, but he forgets that IF Chandler tortured anyone, it allegedly happened in Vietnam, not in Brazil…So, no proof it ever happened in Brazil, th4 no one in Brazil had the right to execute him. They executed him without plausible reason.
Maybe someone should execute Gollum because of his lavatory cleaner’s job in the RAF, because the RAF bombed defenseless terrorists in the MEast...it's a ridiculous association, isn’t it ? Just like Gollum’s on Chandler.
But, due to your “But as for war crimes, the Vietnam war definitely counts”, sounds like you NOW think that the Brazilian left, fighting against the military, had the right to act as judge, jury and executioner…right ?
“…but if they made a habit of it, then someone would have talked”. Really ? who is going to admit to a crime unless they are obliged to ? or are nuts ?
The guerrillas must have treated the 126 very well until they put a bullet through their heads.
“…the army were trying to get information on the revolutionaries” - exactly, and what army, even today, in a war situation does not resort to it, sometimes ?
“…anyone high up in the govt or military” ? I don’t know, but they assassinated innocent civilians who got in their way, and targeted businessmen whom they did not like.
“presume they robbed banks, kidnapped people, and killed some, because that's what I've heard they did. That's reasonable, no?”
Yes, from their perspective in the dirty war, it’s reasonable…as it was also reasonable from the military’s, fighting the guerrillas.
They have a saying here, very appropriate, “quem sai na chuva, é p´ra se molhar”… “If you walk out into the rain, you’re gonna get wet”.
I see Gollum is trying to excuse himself again…”the saddle was on the wrong horse”….how condescending of him…then he immediately resumes his arrogant posture. Should admit the mistake and then STFU.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jun 20th, 2019 - 09:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“IF Chandler tortured anyone, it allegedly happened in Vietnam, not in Brazil… no proof ...”
“He with his peculiar talent, is in a country that's under a dictatorship”
“If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_test
”the saddle was ...” I have shown my original source, and where they obtained their information from, a Brazilian publication. That the one General refers to the other as his 'boss'. I just report the news not write it. The point of the excise was to show journalistic misgivings about a military decision in Haiti. Which seems well placed.
Gollum,
Jun 20th, 2019 - 10:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you never get it right, do you ?
“That the one General refers to the other as his 'boss'”.....when Gen Augusto Heleno refers to his “longtime friend and respected military 'chief' ”, he did not mean 'boss', by the word 'chief', just “a” military chief, “a” colleague..... and you are unable to understand the simplicity of what was written in General Heleno's FB...if you choose to read your shit leftist sites (and not the “original” source - as it's a bit difficult for the original source to be any other than Gen Heleno's FB), that is the kind of interpretation you will get....and you, being an idiot, lap it up, then insist, even after being shown ample proof that Mourão never “served” in Haiti and was never his 'boss' (or even vice-versa).
The point of your “excise” ??? or “exercise” is to deviate attention from your mistakes...as to the alleged “misgivings” (by more of your shitty sites), you'd believe them even if they claimed the world was flat.
But please, don't bother reporting any more “Gollum News” - it's a waste of our time, we are all capable of getting our own news, from reliable sources.
@JB
Jun 20th, 2019 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Actually, AIUI every government is supposed to punish war criminals, because they broke international law. Random revolutionaries are not empowered to act as judge, jury and executioner, however. But I thought you did consider this okay, at least when it's death squads acting as judge, jury and executioner killing criminals?
On the likely assumption Chandler was in Brazil to train the military there in torture, it's pretty understandable why they'd want to kill him. I don't think they have the right to kill anyone they want, but gotta say I feel a lot more sorry for their civilian victims.
“who is going to admit to a crime unless they are obliged to ?”
People who are being tortured themselves, people who want a lighter sentence by confessing (and usually testifying against someone else), people who tell their friends and relatives who later talk, groups that split over disagreements and disapprove.... besides that, what useful information could they get from innocent civilians and businessmen? There'd be no point. There's just no reason to believe it happened, I think you're 'looking for hair on eggs'.
And I meant it's reasonable for me to believe they did the things I listed, not that their actions were reasonable. I don't think that's true of either side.
@Gollum
The Facebook comment did not even mention Haiti, you pulled that part out of your ass. You are attempting to write the news, by making up evidence to try and prove something a journalist got wrong. When JB questioned it, you should have checked the evidence, realised there wasn't any and the journalist most likely got it wrong, and said as much. At that point you could truthfully say you were just reporting the news. Instead you invented your own evidence, out of desire to prove Jack wrong, and made yourself look a fool as usual.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jun 21st, 2019 - 12:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0“He did not mean 'boss',” Sorry you don't get a look in, your credibility is at absolute zero. I prefer those that are qualified experts. But, regardless their misgivings have a clear basis. Gen Heleno's“ a dangerous man, a loose cannon, who has no control over his infantile excesses. Makes a statement, indicating his desire to overturn any and all legal restraints, and has been accused of 'war crimes.'
Heleno's deplorable attack on journalists this morning (June 14), exposes his hatred of President Lula and all that he represents for the suffering Brazilian people. It is a pathological hatred that overflows in the moment in which the truth about the judicial farce that led Lula to unjust and illegal imprisonment has been confirmed for Brazil and the world.
In demanding “life imprisonment” for Lula, the general showed contempt for the Brazilian Constitution, which provides no such penalty for anyone. His speech is a clear threat to the Federal Supreme Court, which is about to judge the suspicion of former judge Sergio Moro in the action in which he condemned the former president in illegal collusion with the Lava Jato Task Force...”
Gleisi Hoffmann Presidenta Nacional do Partido dos Trabalhadores
https://pt.org.br/gleisi-hoffmann-general-expoe-odio-a-lula-e-ameaca-instituicoes/?fbclid=IwAR2_gtd3lR-CnMXlH7uZJfkyzoDQqeMgejblEUzjJGNuKNGZUE_PWHcjSIg
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
“The Facebook comment did not even mention Haiti,” Again my original site is what I rely on, one which succinctly
raises the question of his decision making ability. What faults you want to nit-pick over as to rest, knock yourself out. But stick to what you do best ingratiating yourself with your cuddle chum.
@DemonTree
Jun 21st, 2019 - 01:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “What on earth does that mean”
It means that it is so simple to improve the economy - just divert the attention of the brainwashed - that's ALL!
http://www.contraovento.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/posto-Ipiranga-de-Jair-Bolsonaro.jpg
Gollum, if you want to talk about Heleno's record in Haiti then stick to the point. YOU brought up his Facebook post which is completely irrelevant - what is your actual point?
Jun 21st, 2019 - 10:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ :o))
Your cartoons are getting more and more obscure. What is that thing Guedes is holding?
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jun 21st, 2019 - 11:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0“YOU brought up his Facebook post” NO I did not your perpetually lying cuddle chum did.
Do you never stop lying? You brought up the Facebook post here:
Jun 21st, 2019 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0https://en.mercopress.com/2019/06/12/lava-jato-leaks-calls-for-minister-moro-to-resign/comments#comment501951
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jun 21st, 2019 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You brought up the Facebook post here” I'm guessing it's not the Duck Test.
“I have shown my original source, and where they obtained their information from, a Brazilian publication. That the one General refers to the other as his 'boss'. I just report the news not write it.”
The Face book reference is from your cuddle chum.
And where does the one General refer to the other as his boss?
Jun 21st, 2019 - 03:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jun 21st, 2019 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“And where does the one General refer to the other as his boss” If you're interested research it yourself, or consult your cuddle chum. I've shown what I needed too, which is no surprise, the the former general has some serious deficiencies in judgement.
Ah, but Terry, it's your burden of proof, not mine. Your refusal to answer proves you know I'm right. QED, bitch.
Jun 21st, 2019 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jun 21st, 2019 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“It's your burden of proof” You're the one who raised the issue about Face Book, not me. I don't have any knowledge, yet alone mentioned it. So I can't write about what have no direct involvement in.
“You know I'm right” If you were, you'd be able to show where I did. The fact that you can't tells the story.
@DT
Jun 21st, 2019 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “What is that thing Guedes is holding?”:
It's better known as “NOTHING” which is actually less valuable than a used toilet-paper!
https://www.otempo.com.br/image/contentid/policy:1.2199084:1561081965/CHARGE%20O%20TEMPO.JPG?f=3x2&q=0.6&w=620&$p$f$q$w=904c3fd
@DT
Jun 21st, 2019 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Am not going to discuss ‘war criminals’, given that circumstances determine what war crimes are…(Nazis, WWII ?)
Only suggested you thought it was ok for “the Brzln left, against the military, had the right to act as judge, jury & executioner”, because you obviously believe the military didn’t…either, both had the right, or both didn’t.
Be ‘specific’, or ‘generalize’...fine with me…but don’t use one case to justify the other – each case has its own particulars, which may/ may not justify them.
“On the likely assumption Chandler was in Brazil to train the military in torture”….“likely assumption” ?…your’s 'n that of the freedom-fighters…based on what ? intel reports ? First, doubt Brazilians ever needed lessons in how to torture, 2nd, I’ve read articles suggesting he was killed because they thought he was CIA…and “presumed” he was there to torture...which they alleged to justify their actions.
Me: “who is going to admit to a crime unless they are obliged to ?”; You: “People who are being tortured themselves…”
For Pete’s sake, stick to the subject…we’re discussing the ex-freedom-fighters who never volunteered any of their crimes when the CNV was crucifying the military in 2011/12. None confessed because they weren’t obliged to.
The civilians were collateral damage (who gave a shit ?) ‘n the targeting of businessmen is not 'looking for hair on eggs’ : Albert Boilsen, Danish entrepreneur, naturalized Brazilian, CEO of the Ultra Group in SP, assassinated 1969, becos the FIESP financed some investigations/repression of leftist “armed” groups.
Gollum
Looks like ‘your’ (illiterate) “qualified experts” got it wrong, didn’t they ? And yr justifying ‘their’ misgivings because ‘you’ think Heleno’s a “loose cannon” is hilarious.
“His deplorable attack, his hatred of Lula”, as if he were responsible for the Brzlns’ ‘suffering’....u poor wee communist.
Pls note, ”your“ original source, is not ”the” original source, dumbass.
Stop ‘reporting’ fake news.
@JB
Jun 21st, 2019 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“either, both had the right, or both didn’t. ”
Well, which is it, in your opinion?
“I’ve read articles suggesting he was killed because they thought he was CIA…and “presumed” he was there to torture”
This is what the BBC says about it:
“According to Magalhães, after the assassination, the guerrillas fired leaflets and fled. In the material, it was written: ”To create one, two, three Vietnames, this is the command word of Commander Che Guevara, who was cruelly murdered in Bolivia by imperialist agents of the level of this Chandler, a notorious war criminal in Vietnam, and today punished and executed by the Revolutionary Justice. “
Communists, and THEY certainly believed they had the right to be judge, jury and executioner. There's a lot more here:
https://www.bbc.com/portuguese/brasil-48303427
”the targeting of businessmen is not 'looking for hair on eggs’”
I wasn't referring to targeting businessmen, but you saying the armed leftists must have tortured people too. It doesn't matter if they would have owned up to it 30 years later or not, because it would have come out at the time, for the reasons I gave. Their other crimes did; we even have some idea who gave the order to kill Chandler, and who actually shot him - it's in the article.
As for Gollum, he's always so quick and eager to post his beloved quotes, again and again and again. Until it would mean admitting he was referring to Facebook, and thus lying again. Then he suddenly gets all shy.
I know I'm right, he knows I'm right, and he knows I know he knows, but he still can't admit it. Pathetic.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jun 21st, 2019 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Looks like ... got it wrong, didn’t they?” Not at all, and if they did its because they were misinformed by Brazil, that's who they'd ask. “Mourão, ... According to international observers and human rights organizations,”
“You’ think Heleno’s a ”loose cannon” 'an unpredictable or uncontrolled person who is liable to cause unintentional damage' here's a perfect example of: ”Heleno's deplorable attack on journalists this morning (June 14),(shouting, and banging table with his fists) ... the general showed contempt for the Brazilian Constitution, which provides no such penalty for anyone. His speech is a clear threat to the Federal Supreme Court, which is about to judge the suspicion of former judge Sergio Moro in the action in which he condemned the former president in illegal collusion with the Lava Jato Task Force...”
Only posting to say, it's the summer solstice and the sun is just going down behind the houses. If google isn't lying to me, today it will set in SP before it does here, despite the former being so much further west. Flat Earthers are stumped. ;)
Jun 21st, 2019 - 08:29 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Commenting for this story is now closed.
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