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Argentine sixth-graders supplied educational material reading “East and West Falkland” in English
Education authorities in the Argentine Province of Santa Fe were placed under investigation Tuesday after it was found that a booklet distributed among sixth-grade schoolchildren featured a map where the Malvinas (Falkland) Islands were depicted as British territory despite the country's claim otherwise. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesIn a controversial article entitled 'Are the Malvinas ours?' published in La Nacion´ on 14th February 2012, Argentine historian Luis Alberto Romero wrote that: ''We have outlined [the frontiers of Argentine territory] so many times at school that we have ended up believing this was the reality.'' (Las Malvinas Son Argentinas' : Who Taught You That?'' Monella L.M. The Argentinian Independent, 4 April 2012). Detractors and critics of Argentina's position point out the only reason why most Argentines today know much about the Malvinas other than the disastrous 1982 war, is by the way of martillo escolar – it's hammered into them at school, a practice that goes back to the Peronist indoctrination strategies of the 1940s and 1950s. A geopolitical perspective on Argentina's Malvinas/Falkland Claims, Keeling D.J quoting, Garcia, A.B. 2009. Textos escolares: Las Malvinas y la Antárctica para la 'Nueva Argentina' de Perón. Antitesis, 2(4): 1033-1058).
Nov 17th, 2021 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse +4Hoooooooory !! a massive victory for the thieving English. Hang all the teachers. Purge the hierarchy. Impeach the politicians. That will change the world, and geo-political reality.
Nov 17th, 2021 - 10:45 am - Link - Report abuse +4“The complaint requested that the controversial material “be publicly destroyed with an act of reparation to the Argentine people and especially to our heroes and war veterans who offered their lives for the cause of our national sovereignty.””
Nov 17th, 2021 - 11:54 am - Link - Report abuse +6Because nothing says your cause is right like an old-fashioned book burning...
This is the work of Cipayos, undermining Argentina’s claim from within.
Nov 17th, 2021 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Congratulations Britain!!!!!. You now have to convince the United Nations The rest of the grades in argentine schools and the USA that the islands are not a colony, but a “self-governed” “people”.
Nov 17th, 2021 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cheers.
Libby, the UN will only accept independence as an end result for all/any of the NSGTs.
Nov 17th, 2021 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Until then, the UN fully supports the Islanders right to self-determination and a 'full measure' of self government.
https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/occpap12.pdf
As for this particular storm in a teacup - I am always amazed at just how efficient Argies are at shooting themselves in their collective feet.
The world laughs.
Full panic! The offensive material must be “publicly destroyed”. One could think that some hard core pornography had been spread among the kids. But it is just a map with correct names on it. An odd country, Argentina.
Nov 17th, 2021 - 11:11 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Lorton, you contradict yourself with your two first sentences. First you say that “the UN will only accept independence” and then that they “fully supports the Islanders right to self-determination and a 'full measure' of self government.”.
Nov 18th, 2021 - 01:58 pm - Link - Report abuse -3There is nothing more that the british detest than the current UN list of decolonization. They tried tho to incorporate a self determination right many times unsuccessfully while voting against in every time the UN made a resolutions regarding decolonization.
The legal status of the islands are not decided by the UK against the international law. The colonial power can call them Falklands, a BOT, or whatever but their legal status under international law remains being a Non Self-governing territorie under the UN process of decolonization.
You want the UN “accept independence”? and “supports the Islanders right to self-determination and a 'full measure' of self government.”?. Then the UK have first to solve the sovereignty dispute with Argentina as requested in ALL resolutions of ALL UN bodies regarding Malvinas.
Cheers.
Liberato
Nov 18th, 2021 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse +3As I have said before.
The UN position is that all the peoples of the non-self-governing territories have the inalienable right to self-determination.
https://en.mercopress.com/2012/11/12/ban-ki-moon-and-colonialism-people-should-be-able-to-decide-their-own-future
According to General Assembly resolution 1541 (XV) of 1960 entitled “Principles which should guide Members in determining whether or not an obligation exists to transmit the information called for under Article 73 e of the Charter”, a Non-Self-Governing Territory can be said to have reached a full measure of self-government by:
• Emergence as a sovereign independent State;
• Free association with an independent State;
• Integration with an independent State.
It’s not the UK violating UN resolutions.
Also, you are clearly not British and obviously have no idea how the British think or feel, never mind know what they do or do not ‘detest’.
But hey, when has not knowing what you are talking about ever stopped you in the past.
Saludos.
Pugol-H you said “The UN position is that all the peoples of the non-self-governing territories have the inalienable right to self-determination.”
Nov 18th, 2021 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse -3I agree with that. The same with Argentina that voted in favour of resolution 1514 that described that right. It was the UK that abstained in that vote and that it only considered “selfdetermination right” in the case of Malvinas (not in diego Garcia, or Hong Kong) voting against each resolution regarding decolonization.
The problem you have, is that you consider that the community of british, living in the islands as a different people from those living in the UK.
About resolution 1541. It is a resolution made specifically to all colonial powers to identify the reimaining territories to decolonize,. Do you have a territorie under colonialism? Yes? well dont. Give power to the people there and transmit the information to the UN. Does the fact you have a territorie under colonialism means the land is yours or that the grabbing and granting them independence to the colony legitimate that colony?. No.
Res 1541 was a resolution made to identify the remaining terrritories under colonialism. It is not a resolution made so the UK can invade and the british subjects can choose between those three.
By the way, do you know how the UK voted in that resolution?.
So Liberato, you are saying the Falklands don’t govern themselves? Or are you saying that because they aren’t Spanish they can’t have self determination?
Nov 18th, 2021 - 10:07 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Zaczac121, If the UN keeps the islands on the list of non self-governing territories while the UK says they govern themselves. Which one do you think i have to believe?. Should i trust in the UN or the colonial power?.
Nov 18th, 2021 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse -2What Spain have to do with self determination?. I believe in the self determination right and Argentina have voted always consistently with that right in the UN, while the UK have voted always consistently against resolutions regarding decolonization.
Did i answear correctly to your question?.
Contradictory Libby? Well, that's the UN for you.
Nov 18th, 2021 - 10:54 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Did you read the link? Not by me, if that is what is worrying you. By Prof. Peter Willets who is heavily involved in the South Atlantic Council. An organisation generally viewed as pro-Argentine. Prof Willetts is less easy to pigeon-hole. Worth the read.
https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/occpap12.pdf
Lorton, generally viewed as pro-Argentine????.
Nov 19th, 2021 - 02:55 am - Link - Report abuse -2The charade of the referendum has nothing to do with your contradiction or the UN “support” of your views on the matter. In fact the UN was not a factor in the “referendum” while it should have been made with their support and coordination.
Did you know that the colonial regime “decided” to perform a “referendum” in the same moment Jeremy Browne, the british Minister of State was on a “visit” in the islands and after Cameron was in a war of words with Argentina accusing her of colonialism?.
About that prof., why we should bother discussing what he wrote?. Do you agree with him that the islands does not govern themselves as described in article 67 of their “constitution”?. No?.
Hardly coherent there, Libby. But I'll give it a go.
Nov 19th, 2021 - 05:10 am - Link - Report abuse +2Yes, Libby, the South Atlantic Council is generally considered to be pro-Argentina (though they deny it). That said, it was member of the SAC that advised Argentina to drop 2065 from the wording of UN resolutions back in 1984. Didn't quote work out as planned, though. RIP 2065.
I know the reasoning behind the referendum. I asked. The reasons for were very simple. During their annual visits to New York, Members of the UN kept telling the Islanders representatives that they did not know, with any certainty, what the views of the islanders were as regarded the future of their Islands. Following the comments by the Sec-Gen in 2012, it seemed opportune to rectify any misconceptions that Members of the UN may have held by ascertaining the views of the people of the Falklands.
Why should you bother reading Prof Willetts? An expert opinion. the Prof is rather knowledgeable. Particularly his understanding of the way in which the UN operates.
Art. 67? That provides two exceptions whereby a Governor may decline to take the advice of the Executive Council, and what action he must take if he does. Do you find it confusing? It's the UK Government's 'get out' clause. After all, the islands have not (yet) chosen independence.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/2846/schedule/paragraph/67/made
Do try harder, Libby.
NSGT list doesn’t actually take into account that the Falklands and other BoTs govern themselves Democratically and elect their own representatives, infact there was a news report on this very website about the election of some members of the Falkland’s Assembly.
Nov 19th, 2021 - 08:17 am - Link - Report abuse +2Decolonization was mostly a good thing instead of colonial wars against independence movements. Algeria, India, Angola etcetera. and earlier in the history U.S.A, Argentina, Chile etc. But if the people living in a remaining “colony” does not want to be “decolonized” they should of course themselves decide what relation they want with their “mother country”. The Falkland Islanders have voted in favor of remaining a BOT. That should be respected.
Nov 19th, 2021 - 12:40 pm - Link - Report abuse +2But this article is not about that, It is about the hysterical reaction in Argentina then they see a map showing the actual situation and not their wishful thinkings.
Lorton, I think the UN knows very well the nature, the composition of the people living in Malvinas and their wishes. It is very well expressed in the reports of the colonial power and the c24 Committe where they heard the voice of the people living in Malvinas.
Nov 19th, 2021 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Zaczac121, “NSGT list doesn’t actually take into account...”. They gather each year addressing that and they consider that Malvinas does not field the requisites to be delisted and not becouse they havent choose independence but becouse the British does not comply with the resolutions claiming for sovereignty negotiations with Argentina.
Swede, “But if the people living in a remaining “colony” does not want to be “decolonized”...”. Im gonna show you a list of all the branch of the colonial government and if you can, confirm me if they were all born in Malvinas or in Britain so we can all stablish who are the people living in a remaining “colony” as you say.
The Royal Falkland Islands Police, Jeff McMahon
Fire chief Gardner Fiddes CMgr FCMI
Director of Emergency Services, Andy Bell
Falklands Chief Justice James Lewis
Governor of the Falkland Islands, Nigel Phillips
Falkland Islands Senior Magistrate Sarah Whitby
Director of Emergency Services and Island Security and Principal Immigration Officer Ms P amelaTrevillion
Director of Education Marie Horton
Director of Health and Social Services David O’Neill
Cheers.
Liberato you very well know that they won’t delist the Falklands because of the Negotiations about sovereignty when the only option Argentina will want is full sovereignty without any consultation with the islanders, I do not want to see people who don’t want to be Argentinian be simply handed off. It IS their right to choose their own destiny which they do with their elected representatives.
Nov 19th, 2021 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse +1You bring UN stuff as if in the end, it’s what the UN decides goes and not real tangible human beings with families and lives of their own who just want to be part of a country that:
1. Speaks their language
2. Respects their Democratic decisions
3. Doesn’t give derogatory or offensive names to their towns like “Puerto Argentino” which is offensive to the islanders but Argentina uses the name anyway
4. Doesn’t constantly posture for aggressive expansion as a way to take land.
I fundamentally disagree with you completely, the UN doesn’t matter at all when it’s the PEOPLE who choose their destiny. Not anti-British bureaucrats from a bunch of corrupt ex-colonies.
Zaczac121, I very well know that what Argentina wants is full sovereignty without any consultation with the islanders regarding it, but taking care of its interests as requested by the UN. What the british wants its quite the opposite. And what the UN wants, its to have these two opposite views to negotiate in order to end the sovereignty dispute and the colonial situation.
Nov 19th, 2021 - 08:10 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Ive never said the UN its the end of it. The UN represent the international community That is telling the UK that cant have territories under colonialism. We are all tangible human beings. Like the people of Diego Garcia that were expelled from their homes to build a military base, or the people in Hong Kong that had to change their flag becouse of a desition of the UK. Or the People of Iraq that are in this moment sharing its oil with you.
quote:“the UN doesn’t matter at all when it’s the PEOPLE who choose their destiny”. For sure you thinks that, becouse it is YOUR people. And its not that the UK even care for the people, but for the millons of square kilometers of sea oil and the antartic.
Corruption is in every nation, even with your pm. The difference is that the thief are richer. Cheers.
@Liberato: You list a number of persons. As I do not live on the Islands or in the UK I do not know where these people are born. But I do not think that it is important. The Governor represents the UK Government (or formally perhaps the Queen) and is of course sent from London as the F.I. is not a sovereign state. But the others, I think, are employed by the islands' local government. Due to the small population it is not possible to recruit all these experts locally. And it is only natural that most of them come from the U.K. If Argentina should take over (just theoretically) they would be sent from Argentina instead. That would really be a “colonial situation”.
Nov 19th, 2021 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Swede, ahhh the excuse of “they are so few.....”. But lets take your excuse as valid for a moment:
Nov 19th, 2021 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Imagine that the Principal Immigration Officer imported from britain have to choose between granting citizenship to an argentine or to a british. what would he choose?.
Imagine that a Director of Education imported from London have to decide what curricula are gonna be aproved to teach the kids in the islands.
Imagine that the “falklanders” wants to be independent but the Falklands Chief Justice imported from London and the Falkland Islands Senior Magistrate also imported from london decided that those who proposed independence are corrupted.
If they are so few.....That have to rely on Britain or people imported from London to manage the islands. then, they do not govern themselves. In any case, can be claimed some economic autonomous. But self-governed????.
Certainly, if all judges, governors, lawers, police men, fire fighters, directors, teachers, engineers, the militaries, the economy, doctors, etc are imported from London to “govern” a comunity with a 98% of british origins. Then, we are not talking of a people with right to self determination, we are talking of a british government in disputed land.
What if the Argentines that have born in argentine bases in the antartic declare that they dont feel argentines, that they have self determination rights there but as they are so few they will rely on Argentina?. Its the same stupid excuse.
Are all these guys people from london that feel they were “falklanders”?:
The Royal Falkland Islands Police, Jeff McMahon
Fire chief Gardner Fiddes CMgr FCMI
Director of Emergency Services, Andy Bell
Falklands Chief Justice James Lewis
Governor of the Falkland Islands, Nigel Phillips
Falkland Islands Senior Magistrate Sarah Whitby
Director of Emergency Services and Island Security and Principal Immigration Officer Ms P amelaTrevillion
Director of Education Marie Horton
Director of Health and Social Services David O’Neill.
Falklands has its own elected assembly of local people, only the “governor” and the British army there are from the UK (bar people who move over to the Falklands)
Nov 19th, 2021 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Fact of the matter is that the people there had a referendum in 2013 and said no to Argentina and the UN regards that referendum as Free and Fair. I won’t allow these Falklanders to be handed over to a nation that just wants to exploit them for morale.
I cannot help but think that you Liberato, despite being decently knowledgeable, you fail to understand the crutch of the issue is not with the rest of the international community or other places, it’s about the people on those islands and what they wish.
Zaczac121, “Falklands has its own elected assembly of local people”. Nono, some of them are local people and some of them imported from London.
Nov 19th, 2021 - 09:22 pm - Link - Report abuse -2”only the “governor” and the British army there are from the UK (bar people who move over to the Falklands)“. The people who move over, move already with all the jobs in the judiciary, all the jobs in the health system and ALL the jobs of the education system.
”Fact of the matter is that the people there had a referendum in 2013“. That referendum was not consulted with the UN bodie in charge of its decolonization.
You can organize a referendum in your own house, and the result would be more natural than the results in the colony.
” I won’t allow these Falklanders to be handed over to a nation that just wants to exploit them for morale.”. Ah you got me. You discovered me. It was for morale that we wanted them.
The international community in all its resolutions regarding Malvinas did not talked about wishes, but about interests.
We can argue all day. Becouse for you there is only one form of colonialism that you can underestand that is where a people is subjugated. And this special and particular form of colonialism (as described by the UN) escape the mind of the guy who travel from London to assume as the head of all the justice in the islands.
Cheers.
France has an overseas territory (as big as Austria) on the South American mainland. It is an integrated part of the French Republic and not more “self governing” than Provence or Bretagne. But it is not blamed as a “colony” and it is not on the NSGT-list. Can anybody explain that? If the majority of its population want to stay connected to France it is totally fine with me. And if the majority of the population of the F.I. want to stay connected to Britain is also totally fine, I cannot understand the difference.
Nov 19th, 2021 - 11:55 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Only the Islanders can decide their future, as only they have the right of self-determination over that listed NSGT. The UN fully supports that right, as does international law. If the islanders wish to retain their links to the UK - as they voted in 2013 - then the UN has no choice but to respect that. Does not mean that the UN is obliged to delist the territory, however. The UN has clearly set one target for decolonization, and that is independence. Until such time as the Islanders opt for that, the status quo remains.
Nov 20th, 2021 - 12:26 am - Link - Report abuse +2Argentina is irrelevant. After 76 years of failure at the United Nations, Argentina is clearly impotent.
The matter is settled.
2013 vote considered here -
https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/2000-to-2015.pdf
Liberato
Nov 21st, 2021 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse +1The UN recognises the right to self-determination of the inhabitants of the NSGTs, regardless of origin.
Lucky for you this is the accepted principle, Argentina being a country with an implanted population of mostly Spanish and Italian people.
Eh, Kurepi.
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