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Montevideo, August 18th 2022 - 14:05 UTC

 

 

Compassionate charter flight to Chile not approved by Government of Argentina

Thursday, March 10th 2022 - 09:38 UTC
Full article 86 comments

The Falkland Islands Government (FIG) has been informed that the permissions required to operate a compassionate charter flight between the Falkland Islands and Chile have not been granted by the Argentine authorities. This flight was due to travel to Chile from the Falkland Islands on Saturday 19 March 2022, and return on Saturday 9 April, it was informed by the FIG on Wednesday. Read full article

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  • Tænk

    Esteemed Ms. Barkman & FIG(leaf) Co.

    This* is, arguably, a small administrative decision on the part of the Falklands/Malvinas local authorities, but it could and would have made a whole world of difference for those South-American citizens in your community...

    - *(Your administative decision of not granting the permission required for Aerolineas Argentinas to operate an normal charter flight between the Falkland/Malvinas Islands and Chile...)

    Capisce...?

    Mar 10th, 2022 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse -5
  • Dirk Dikkler

    Pure Pettiness on the Argentine Government`s part, should not be a Surprise really with the upcoming 40th Anniversary and Argentina not being allowed to have its own way.

    Mar 10th, 2022 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Tænk

    Pure Pettiness on the Falkland/Malvinas Local Government`s part, should not be a Surprise really with the upcoming 40th Anniversary and them Anglos not being allowed to have its own way.

    Mar 10th, 2022 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse -5
  • Islander1

    Think,
    I sort of agree with you- it was dumb stupid of FI Govt to announce the proposed flight- in the first place and thus raise the hopes of a lot of Chilean folks here who cannot travel via UK as their passports have expired - before they had obtained the overflight permit - which anyone with half a brain knew would not happen.

    Mar 10th, 2022 - 11:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tænk

    Mr. Timlander1...

    You keep reconfirming that you are a worthy, auld school Kelper adversary...
    Good thing there ain't many of you left..., it would make things much harder for us...

    Keep safe...
    El Tænk...

    Mar 10th, 2022 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • FitzRoy

    Think, Argentina does not allow charter flights to operate into the Falkland Islands, so why would AA be treated any differently? IF, it were allowed no one would be allowed to leave the aircraft, disembark or be free to wander.
    The only reason a so-called “humanitarian country” has disallowed this flight is sheer pettiness and nothing more. I see, elsewhere, in your press that Argentina is blaming the UK for this flight not going ahead. Would you like to explain how it is the UK's fault?

    Mar 10th, 2022 - 02:12 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Falklands-Free

    It is purely the selfishness of the Argentines . The reason Argentina was not accepted as the country to fly any humanitarian flights was due to the fact Argentina wanted to use that as another propaganda tool.
    Now they are using a tit for tat system.
    Well it might cost our Chilean friends a little more which our government may sponsor , but one way or another we will go round the sick Argentine regime. We have been doing that for forty years so it is possible. Argentina has placed embargoes on us for years and it has not stopped us developing our country.
    We have proved we are more than capable of doing things ourselves and dont need the Argentines period.
    All Argentina is doing is causing a greater devide between them and us. If they wanted to normalise relations they would act more responsibly.
    So while this was expected it will not stop our Chilean community getting home. Our country has financial resources to do this.
    We will stand up to Argentine bullying and defeat their pathetic attempts to interfere with our economy,
    This incident is going to look pretty good in the international scheme of things. Argentina again has shot themselves in the foot.

    Mar 10th, 2022 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Pugol-H

    There is absolutely no humanitarian reason why the Planes have to be Argy, this is a purely political act by the Argy Gov.

    The suffering of their ‘Shilean hermanos’ is of no consequence to them, especially when compared to the political objective of getting an Argy flag on the Islands, anyway possible.

    I suspect the Chileans know better than to expect anything else from Argentina.

    Stay strong Kelpers, stay strong.

    Mar 10th, 2022 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    “The Falkland Islands Government (FIG) has been informed that the permissions required to operate a compassionate charter flight between the Falkland Islands and Chile have not been granted”

    It should at the minim be requested by the traveling party. But it is also a requirement of international law that such permission cannot be withheld. Thus, the Charterer should demand “the right of innocent passage” under “The Right of Innocent Passage in the UN Convention
    The term Innocent Passage is defined under international law referring to a ship or aircraft’s right to enter and pass through another’s territory…
    … was affirmed by Jessup in 1927 that
    “As a general principle, the right of innocent passage requires no supporting argument or citation”

    Mar 10th, 2022 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Falklands-Free, you dont have normal relations with Argentina becouse you are not a nation. Ergo, if You want Argentina to colaborate with you, she will offer its flag carrier airline (through the UK obviously). It can not offer other airline of any other nation for obvious reasons. Also, argentine airplanes flew to the islands for years before the war without being accused of propaganda.

    But you wanna choose what planes passes through argentine airspace?. I suggest that, if you consider you have self determination rights, then use it to tell the UK to negotiate with Argentina the end of the sovereignty dispute, so we can all have normal relations and choose whatever airline you want to use .
    .“sick Argentine regime”?. We have a democratic government and you have a colonial regime.
    UN status of the Falklands (Malvinas):
    https://www.un.org/dppa/decolonization/en/content/falkland-islands-malvinas

    Pugol-H, You said: “There is absolutely no humanitarian reason why the Planes have to be Argy”. There is, becouse you are asking Argentina, and Argentina does not control LAN. If you want a humanitarian flight to be executed by LAN, you have to ask Chile, and then, Chile should ask Argentina to open its airspace for humanitarian reasons.

    Terence Hill, I sincerelly dont know why is not applied innocent Passage. It should, but then we see that the UK does not allow innocent passage to Russian civilians aircraft passing its air space.
    Cheers.

    Mar 11th, 2022 - 12:06 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Roger Lorton

    What sovereignty dispute?
    If Argentina had any claim - legal, historical or geographical - then surely it would have taken its arguments to the ICJ. No?
    The matter is settled - only the Islanders can decide their future.

    https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2022/02/letter-dated-18-january-2022-from-the-united-kingdom-to-the-united-nations.-refutes-allegations-in-agentine-letter-dated-31-dec.-2020-concerning-the-falkland-islands.-a76656-en.pdf

    Mar 11th, 2022 - 01:31 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Terence Hill

    “The UK does not allow innocent passage to Russian civilians aircraft passing its air space.”

    That is because Russia is adjudged to be a pariah state, that is a threat to world peace; according to the majority of the civilized world.
    Meanwhile back at the ranch house, Argentina is not vested with any legal authority to refuse a “request of innocent passage”; according to the International Law of the Sea.
    Perhaps Argentina should abide by the Chicago Convention which she signed on 4 June 1946. Also known as:
    The International Air Services Transit Agreement, 1944 containing what has come to be known as ”The Two Freedoms”.
    1) The privilege to fly across the territory of a state without landing;
    2) The privilege to land for non-traffic purposes; which she signed on 4 June 1946.

    Mar 11th, 2022 - 01:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Roger Lorton, What sovereignty dispute?. Well, if you fail to recognize there is a sovereignty dispute, then dont complaint if we treat you as colonialists. Do whatever you want, as always and we will do whatever we want as always. Its simple. Go around Argentina to fly to Chile or invade Argentina or whatever your nation thinks appropiate. We cant care less.

    Terence Hill, Russia is adjudged to be a pariah state, becouse 27 nations that forms the biggest military alliance in human history moved their influence around the globe to make Russian a pariah state. But i remember Iraq's cities and infrastructure been completly destroyed by bombs before even an american or a british soldier set one foot on iraquians soil. And without being atacked, becouse Iraq did nothing at all to deserve being invaded and ransacked.
    There are no Ukranian waiting to be liberated in Crimea, Lugansk and Donetsk as there was no iraquians welcoming the invaders as the liberators!!!.
    British Petroleum are still enyoing the results of the invasion and 10 years occupation. But you are not a pariah right?. Why is that?. Indoctrination perhaps?. The “evil” Russian or the axis of evil while you are the good guys? defenders of freedom and democracy?.

    You are invoking international law with regard to International Air Services Transit Agreement? while at the same time you refuse passage to russian becouse they are a pariah state? You are joking right?.

    Mar 11th, 2022 - 03:31 am - Link - Report abuse -3
  • bushpilot

    Innocent Saddam Hussein did nothing to provoke the U.S. led invasion of Iraq in 2003. The U.S. just invaded on a lie about weapons of mass destruction. Hussein was of course completely behaving in the run up to the 2003 Iraq invasion.

    All those neighbors of Russia wanted to become NATO allies even though Putin is an innocent little pussycat. Putin did nothing!

    There are plenty of Ukrainians that need to be liberated now, don't you think. Even though innocent Vladmir did nothing?


    It is actually a good thing that the passage through Argentine airspace was denied. It maintains the Falklanders isolation from Argentines. Normalized relations with the Argentines would spell the end of the Falklanders culture. Beware of the Argentine swearing up and down that nothing would change.

    Mar 11th, 2022 - 04:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Bushpilot, this is not about Putin or Saddam or Bush or Blair. They are all criminals. Putin is not right on invading a sovereign nation becouse Ukraine was not atacking Russia. The same with the USA and the UK invading a whole nation without being atacked in any way. Saddam did not atacked nor invading no one at that time but murdered its own people.
    They are all criminals in different ways. But what im talking about its about nations and its people. Do you think this Ukraine war is more bloodiest than the war on Iraq?. Do you think this war is more illegal than the war on Iraq? or more ilegitimate?. Do you think that zelenski is better than Saddam?. Putin acted on behalf of russians but the russians had no desire for war in the same way that you as citizens did not desired to invade Iraq. But russians will suffer while you didnt suffer any consecuence. You even fill your car with iraq's oil. Did you know that hospitals were also bombed on Iraq, during the invasion of 2003?.
    And its not your fault either, but you are indoctrinated in believing that russians are evil, chinese are evil, but Bush and Blair made a “mistake”.
    Im amazed that you dont have the minimum logical sense. Americans and british people are good people in the same way as russians. We all work hard to progress. But you are being ignorant in blaming nations insted of governments. Becouse your governments will increase the agressions, militarily or economically counting with your aproval of atacking the evil russian and accepting a wrong doing.
    Ignorants like you, will lead us to ww3.

    Of course it is my opinion only. Cheers.

    Mar 11th, 2022 - 05:17 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Falklands-Free

    Liberato.
    You certainly are a gobby one for sure.
    You dribble on about almost everything that you refuse to hear or see printed.
    We are fully aware of the position in Argentina with regards to the Falkland Islands . Your only acceptable settlement in any negotiations is full sovereignty. You know very well that Britain or the Falkland Islands are not going to give to you something that has never belonged to you.
    As for crossing Argentine air space the islanders dont have to. However what Argentina tries to control is their fellow neighbours crossing your air space to get to and from the islands. You have already admitted that.
    Fact is we islanders dont have an international plane services of our own, we use other internationals. Latam being one. This obstruction of humanitarian flights is just the usual event that the spiteful even resentful Argentines use against the islanders.
    For the record for what it's worth to you as an ignorant. The Falklands and Argentina had a reasonable existance before 1982 and many of the islanders were happy to use your services. Trade was in the eyes of many better than aggression. However your lot got greedy, you decided to go that step further because you hate the British so much, you invaded us.
    Doing that you destroyed every last bit of respect we islanders ever had for you.
    We have good reasons to not respect you even today 40 years after that invasion. You are among the most selfish people on the planet and you wont stop untill you try to get what you want.
    It dont work like that. Argentina has to start growing up in many ways. Even to the point of fixing their own internal problems. Not only are you internationally in debt you have a serious poverty issue. Just yesterday you were declared the worlds worst for inflation.
    I guess you are very proud of those issues. Meanwhile here on the free democratic Falkland Islands we are, in spite of harassment from a failed country forging ahead economically.
    That hurts you so much.

    Mar 11th, 2022 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    “Russia is adjudged to be a pariah state, becouse 27 nations that forms the biggest military alliance in human history moved their influence around the globe to make Russian a pariah state”

    She is adjudged to be a pariah state, because she has acted like one. As she has acted contrary to the UN Charter.
    You’re unable to refute Argentina’s behavior that is in complete opposition to the Law of the Sea, and The International Air Services Transit Agreement, 1944. Just like another pariah state.

    Mar 11th, 2022 - 10:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    Liberato
    ‘you are not a nation’.

    Well you are not the Judge of that and it is particularly laughable from an implanted population, which ethnically cleansed the land you now call home, saying exactly that to the indigenous population you massacred.

    Which shows how early in the sad history of your nation this type of MalviNazi thinking took hold.

    This is also what Saddam said about Kuwait and Putin said about Ukraine, which then lead to invasions, just as it did in the S. Atlantic in 1982.

    You cannot be surprised that the Islanders want nothing whatsoever to do with you, nor will they tolerate your flag or any other Argy national symbols in their territory.

    I get the distinct impression that they barely tolerate Argys even visiting the Islands.

    So long as this MalviNazi thinking persists in Argentina, nothing will change, no point in even talking, the British will continue to ignore you, harder for the Islanders but they are more than capable of succeeding without you, as they have more than proved.

    In short, you need not concern yourself with who the new Police Commissioner is, it is not going to be any of your concern for the foreseeable future.

    As for Russians being evil, well it all depends on your perspective, personally I have had some very good times with Russians and they are a warm, friendly and very sturdy people, by and large.

    It is very sad that Putin, a demented relic from a bygone era, has lead them into what is increasingly looking like an un-winable war. With mounting casualties and losses of equipment that is making even the Russians wince and which is only going to get worse.

    However ask a Chechen, or Ukrainian, or Syrian and you will likely get a different answer.

    Mar 11th, 2022 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • mishmashbash

    Im quite enjoying the disconnection......No more puffy chests marching the town....no more mountain graffiti....no more you need us and unfortunately there will be no more Falklands for you as we are quite happy for our present connection of which improvements can be made. Ask yourself this, sunny blue and whites, can you carry on without the prospect of visiting here for your own political needs as i really think you have slit your own throats....

    Mar 11th, 2022 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Jo Bloggs

    I was interested and heartened just now to read the comments on a thread on FB about this. So many Argentines saying how ashamed they are of their government.

    Mar 11th, 2022 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Tænk

    Hmmmmmmmm...

    The above Perfid Albion bard asks...:
    - ”Ask yourself this, sunny blue and whites (NA: He means us Argies)..., can you carry on without the prospect of visiting here for your own political needs...?

    I say...:
    - No sweat..., Chay...
    1) Fourty loong years have gone...
    2)The boys have gotten an appropriate final restplace in them Patagonian Windblown Isles...
    3) The boys moms and dads have already visited their tombs and most of them have already joined them...
    4) Our mutton tastes better tha yours...

    No real reason to spend a fortune in airfares and ½ stars corrugated iron roofed B&B's...

    Capisce...?

    Mar 11th, 2022 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Falklands-Free, i dont know what a gobby is, and i dont mind. I know there is a british colony in Malvinas where one colonist call himself “Falklands-Free”.
    You said:“Your only acceptable settlement in any negotiations is full sovereignty.”. Just in the same way that your only acceptable settlement in any negotiations is self-determination. Or am i wrong?.
    Then you said:“You know very well that Britain or the Falkland Islands are not going to give to you something that has never belonged to you.”. Actually, the UK was willing to and going to on more than one occasion.
    And then you said:“ This obstruction of humanitarian flights is just the usual event that the spiteful even resentful Argentines use against the islanders.”. Argentina has publicly offered all the humanitarian flights that the british considered necesarily to the destination they considered necesarilly. The problem is that the colonial regime wants to act like an independent nation, while you are not even a nation.
    before 1982, like you said,many of the islanders were happy to use our services, they could come to Argentina to be treated in our hospitals, schools, work, etc. But it didnt worked the other way around. colonialism does not allowed argentines to reside there, or buy a property there, etc. The only benefited from that was the british part that had a lower expense to mantain the colony.
    And we are the selfish?. Not Britain that controls millons of square kilometers of the South Atlantic and the Antartic?. That do not return a little islands to the chagossian for “defenses” purposes?.

    Pugol-H, im not the judge, but the whole world is telling you there is not a nation in Malvinas.
    Ok, Saddam was a monster so it was ok to kill one millon iraquians, ocupy them for 10 years and exploit their natural resources until now. And you call us malvinazi?. Arent you ashame to be so fascist?.

    mishmashbash, Im happy that you are happy!.

    Mar 11th, 2022 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Falklands-Free

    Liberato.
    You are so out of touch with reality. But hey whatever gives you your kicks.
    You dont even know that several Argentine families actually live here and some arrived to settle here after the 1982 war. So little you actually know about us.
    As for Argentina offering humanitarian flights it would be a good time to remind you that Argentina jumped in with their offer so that they did not have to let Latam do it.
    There is only one reason Argentina wanted to offer such a flight was because it would have meant we islanders accepting an Argentine flagged aircraft and that is not going to happen so long as you dispute our right to determine our own future.
    You can go on for year after year and you will still be in the same place as you are now over the islands because you only want one outcome , to steal our homes.
    Dress it up in any way you want but you will never be able to prove you ever owned or were even gifted these islands. It is all part if the corrupt Argentine indoctrination of their children.

    Much of what we see coming out of Argentina today is quite pitiful. The absolute rubbish being created for the defeated army is being laughed at accross the free world and you cant even see it.
    You are so obsessed with trying to make life difficult for us you have even forgot about your own people who are now growing in numbers of poverty.
    A complete disgrace of a country that can do what they have done to their own people let alone us.

    Anyway enough said. The Falkland islands are British, we will be British for ever and their is nothing you can do to change it.
    One day your good people will say enough is enough and put an end to your indoctrinated dreams. It will happen, just a matter if time.

    Mar 11th, 2022 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    Settled Libby.

    https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2021/02/falklands-future-in-own-hands-by-douglas-hurd-1994.pdf

    As settled as it is ever going to be. Unless Argentina fancies its chances at the ICJ.

    Mar 11th, 2022 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    Liberato
    ‘Britain that controls millions of square kilometres of the South Atlantic and the Antarctic’, well, yes, long established British Territory, just like you control ‘millions of square kilometres’ of Patagonia and TDF.

    Except we controlled the S. Atlantic/Antarctic long before you controlled Patagonia and TDF.

    ‘The whole world’??? Ban Ki moon (Former Sec Gen UN) said:

    ‘Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said UK is not violating relevant UN resolutions referred to the Falklands’ and more specifically on colonialism, he argued that a prevailing impression is that “people living under certain conditions should have a certain level of capacities so that they can decide their own future”, be it independence or some kind of government in their territories.’

    https://en.mercopress.com/2012/11/12/ban-ki-moon-and-colonialism-people-should-be-able-to-decide-their-own-future

    ‘you are not a nation’.

    Therefore you have no rights and can be dispossessed!!!

    And this is not ‘Fascist’???

    Who do you think you are kidding???

    Like I said, MalviNazi.

    Mar 11th, 2022 - 11:16 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Pogul-X

    Well, there we have it from Ersatz Stinke himself, no need for any further dealings between the free peoples of the British S. Atlantic and Kurepi Planter occupied S. America.

    Liberato no longer has any reason to exist.

    Mar 12th, 2022 - 12:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Falklands-Free, “....some arrived to settle here after the 1982 war”. Name them.

    “As for Argentina offering humanitarian flights...” Period, Argentina offered humanitarian flights!.

    “....It is all part if the corrupt Argentine indoctrination of their children.”. The UN consider the islands to be in a colonial situation. Your biggest ally, the USA takes no side regarding sovereignty. Who is being indoctrinated?. You british distrust the UN, get angry at your ally, but still they dont recognize the islands to be british and to be self-governed with self-determination rights. So, indoctrination?.
    Of course you go then to play the economic card, as if it will make a stronger british case in its colonial situation.

    “One day your good people will say enough is enough and put an end to your indoctrinated dreams”. This can be the day. Open your frontiers. Accept inmigration from anywhere without distinction and one day you will have a south american english speaking nation. Not just a copy of a british little town outside london. But you do not want to be another nation. Becouse you are not another people distinct to Britain.

    This is the people that runs the colonial regime and claims to be different from Britain. Can you tell me where did they came from?.

    The Royal Falkland Islands Police, Jeff McMahon
    Fire chief Gardner Fiddes CMgr FCMI
    Director of Emergency Services, Andy Bell
    Falklands Chief Justice James Lewis
    Governor of the Falkland Islands, Nigel Phillips
    Falkland Islands Senior Magistrate Sarah Whitby
    Director of Emergency Services and Island Security and Principal Immigration Officer Ms PamelaTrevillion
    Director of Education Marie Horton
    Director of Health and Social Services David O’Neill

    Ive heard McMahon is no more in charge. Who replaced him?.

    Pugol, no nation is not the same to say you have no rights and can be dispossessed. They are a territory under a colonial situation. Do not put me under the axis of evil list please.

    Mar 12th, 2022 - 03:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    Interesting point, Libby.

    How many officials in the Argentine Government carry indigenous names?

    Mar 12th, 2022 - 05:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Falklands-Free

    Liberato.
    Just proves to the world that you are in need if a lot of educational help.
    A lot of your comments are as fake as the claim to our islands itself.
    You are corrected in every comment you ever make yet you still dribble on.
    You are the living proof of indoctrination perfection.

    Yes we do have many nationalities living here and for your information I am not , like you, going to name drop any of them.

    Yes we have several Argentine families living here on the islands who actually came here and settled. Even built their own homes. Built on sites developed in the last six years.
    They, just like any other national came here applied for a Falkland Islands permit then applied for a permanent residence permit. They came here of their own free will, not implanted by Britain as you keep rambling on about.
    So you see we are a multicultural society.
    As for the UN it has recognised the right of people to live the lives of their choosing. We chose in 2013 to remain a part if the British overseas territory.
    A much better choice than being a part of Argentina.
    We are self governing economically but you would not believe that anyway.
    The only input Britain makes is that they provide an armed force of suitable size to deter Argentina attempting another land grab. That is the part that eats so much into your indoctrinated mind.
    Wake up, a lot of Argentines dont agree with you, but you would not know that either because you live in your own deluded bubble.
    You communicate with distortion to entice us to respond because you have no other people that actually want to listen to you.
    Your lot are in a growing minority and you know it.
    For me this is a pastime responding to deluded people like you because it gets you to make a fool of yourself on the international stage.
    I sugest you go and have a nice cup of British tea, it will do wonders to your indoctrinated brain.

    Mar 12th, 2022 - 08:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tænk

    Geeeeee....

    - The irony of it all...
    - The symbolism of it all...
    - An Anglo-Colonial Kelper youngster suggesting foreigners to have a nice cup of BRITISH tea...!

    Capisce....?

    Mar 12th, 2022 - 09:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    “There is not a nation in Malvinas.”

    So what? The essential point being that both the UK and the
    Falklands are in complete compliance with the UN Charter.
    While Argentina is decidedly not.

    Mar 12th, 2022 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Liberato

    Lorton, “How many officials in the Argentine Government carry indigenous names?”. There are indeed but what you wont see its 100% of argentine officials getting their governmental job in Spain, traveling to Argentina to inmediately claim to be Argentine.


    Falklands-Free, I dont know what dribble on is, but my comments are not fake and are not reffuted with proof but with insults like the economy of Argentina for example. You know that economy has nothing to do with sovereignty rights, the law, the legal status of Malvinas, the United Nations, etc right?.

    You: “Yes we do have many nationalities living here”. Or “we are a multicultural society”
    ME: Great, Where did all the people from the list i gave you were born?.
    The Royal Falkland Islands Police, Jeff McMahon
    Fire chief Gardner Fiddes CMgr FCMI
    Director of Emergency Services, Andy Bell
    Falklands Chief Justice James Lewis
    Governor of the Falkland Islands, Nigel Phillips
    Falkland Islands Senior Magistrate Sarah Whitby
    Director of Emergency Services and Island Security and Principal Immigration Officer Ms PamelaTrevillion
    Director of Education Marie Horton
    Director of Health and Social Services David O’Neill

    You:“Yes we have several Argentine families living here on the islands”.
    ME: 29 and not previous 1982. And im not counting the british that gave birth in continental argentina becouse they used our medical hospitals.

    You:“As for the UN it has recognised the right of people to live the lives of their choosing”.
    ME: For the UN you are a non self-governing territory under a process of decolonization.

    You:“We are self governing economically but you would not believe that anyway.”
    ME: UN put the islands on the list of NON SELF- GOVERNING.....So.... no

    .You:“a lot of Argentines dont agree with you”.
    Me: Thats the point on anything anywhere dont you think?.

    Distortion????

    U:“I sugest you go and have a nice cup of British tea”.
    Me: From India?.I like british products anyway. Their Motorbikes, puddings, etc.

    Mar 12th, 2022 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Tænk

    Another fantasy....

    Mar 12th, 2022 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Terence Hill

    “My comments are not fake and are not reffuted with proof”

    Yes, they are, the essential point being that both the UK and the
    Falklands are in complete compliance with the UN Charter.
    While Argentina is decidedly not.

    Mar 12th, 2022 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Liberato

    Terence Hill, i said in this article that the status that the United Nations grants to the Malvinas its of a non self-governing territory, While it is not reffuted by you guys, you try to convince me that it is the opposite.
    You go around that, talking about the UN charter or what Ban Ki Moon said this or that. But the fact is, that the UN keeps the islands as a colony of Britain. That is not reffuted and is not a fake. Its a fact, we may agree on it or not. You can check it out by yourself or i can deliver, again, the link of the UN where it describe the legal status of Malvinas.

    Another fact that contradict your “self-government” its the list of all officials of the colonial regime that were born in London and took a job in London to manage the justice, health, education, security, inmigration, etc. in Malvinas. That list had names which can not be altereded by me or suspected .Those who live on Malvinas can for sure TELL if im wrong or not that they were all brought from Britain.

    About Iraq, the same. Before the invasion, NATO had already de facto control of all Iraq's airspace. But an “intelligence” report told them Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. The UN have even sent an inspection teem that searched in all the nation where the USA send them to, in search for weapons of mass destruction. Hans Blix, Head of the UN team, was tiresly telling the north-americans that there was not one indication that Saddam had such weapons in a country already devastated by the US embargo.
    They went ahead and invaded. But before sending troops, They atacked all mayor infrastructure, airports, military bases, etc.
    -More than a millon iraquian deads.
    -10 years occupation with a puppet “president” instaured by the coalition.
    -Now we see British Petroleum extracting oil from one of the mayor oil deposits.
    You didnt reffuted that. You went around talking about Saddam, as if you were legally acting by invading a nation becouse you considered the head of state a monster.

    Mar 12th, 2022 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Falklands-Free

    Liberato
    We islanders are not a colony we are a part by choice of the BOT Britush overseas territory.confirmed in an internationally approved referendum where 99.8% of the people decided.
    The only country who did not recognise that decisions was of course Argentina because it slapped them right in the face.
    You claim to know everything and actually know very little.
    What I can tell you again right now we chose a british way of life and there is nothing and I repeat nothing Argentina or you can do about it.
    Keep spitting the dummy out it won't win you any brownie points.
    It was requested that we be removed from colony status in the UN but oh wait, Argentina would not allow that to happen.
    You see Argentina uses every excuse it can to keep their illegal claim alive.
    Has it not occurred to you that all Argentina wants to do is a totally colonise us, something they are opposed to in the UN.
    Double standards we call that.
    It is like I said a complete waste of time communicating with you because you have a one set indoctrinated mind.
    You refuse to listen to the islanders because you believe we do not exist.
    I can tell you we very much do exist and we have over 3500 multinational people to prove it.
    We have a multicultural society far greater than the hand full of carefully selected names you keep rattling on about.
    Your whinging wont chang a thing.
    Now go and ask your mother to put your dummy back in, would not want to see you upset any longer than necessary.
    This is the last comment on this subject because it is getting rather boring communicating with a brick wall.well in truth a brick wall probably would talk more sense than you do.

    Mar 12th, 2022 - 09:27 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Terence Hill

    “Terence Hill, i said in this article that the status that the United Nations grants to the Malvinas its of a non self-governing territory,”

    No shit Sherlock nobody has said anything to contrary. The UN can neither deny nor allow any articles of the UN Charter. As it is crystal clear, that both the UK, and the Falklands are simply exercising their own protected UN Charter rights.

    Mar 12th, 2022 - 10:45 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Roger Lorton

    The Falklands are indeed listed as a NSGT at the UN, and that will remain the case until such time as they opt for independence.

    https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/occpap12.pdf

    Some things to note about NSGTs:
    1) All the NSGTs have a people (otherwise they would not be eligible for listing)
    2) All the NSGTs have the right of self-determination (a right attached to the territory, according to the ICJ's Chagos AO)
    3) All the NSGTs have the right to benefit from their natural resources (including fish and oil)
    4) All the NSGTs have the right to be left in peace by their neighbours (UN Charter Chapter XI: Article 74)

    Seems to me Libby, that a listed NSGT with all those rights also has the right to employ who they like.

    Mar 12th, 2022 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    “The UN keeps the islands as a colony of Britain.”

    Decolonisation is a mere political term

    ”In the context of decolonisation, the 'political' moment in international law is repeated several times over. ... begins in 1960 with the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples, an initiative taken by the Third World at the United Nations General Assembly (GA Res. 1514).“

    Which, while a worthy goal, is merely an advisement, and not international law. Is the fact that GA resolutions are merely recommendations, not laws, and thus not binding on member states.

    ”Decolonization (American English) or Decolonisation (British English) is the undoing of colonialism ... The fundamental right to self-determination is identified by the United Nations as core to decolonization, allowing not only independence, but also other ways of decolonization. The United Nations Special Committee on Decolonization has stated that in the process of decolonization there is no alternative to the colonizer but to allow a process of self-determination.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decolonization

    Mar 12th, 2022 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Liberato

    Falklands-Free, “We islanders are not a colony”. I respect your opinion, but you should also respect mine. For me, Argentina, ;our neighbours and the UN, Malvinas are a colony in the UN process of decolonization along with other nine territories under british colonialism.

    You choose a british way of life becouse you are exactly british!!!!. I choose an argentine way of life becouse im argentine and love to remain being argentine. This is the obvious reason why almost 100% in your “referendum” choosed to be british. Becouse you ARE british with a population with 98% of british origins.

    “It was requested that we be removed from colony status in the UN but oh wait, Argentina would not allow that to happen.” Ok, so the all mighty Argentina retains Malvinas under the UN decolonization process?. what about then the other nine territories under british colonialism in the same UN process of decolonization, where most of them has no sovereignty dispute?.

    “Has it not occurred to you that all Argentina wants to do is a totally colonise us”. Nope, i would never imagine that a colony is threaten to continue to be a colony.

    “You refuse to listen to the islanders because you believe we do not exist.”. You do exist, and we even have your rights preserved in our own constitution. But you are not a different people from those living in Britain. You are not a third party in this dispute and it is stipulated in all UN resolutions regarding Malvinas.

    The hand full of carefully selected names i mentioned are in charge of all departments of governments. Did i miss sports?.

    Good luck, and stop falling on british indoctrination. My suggestion is that if you dont want to be considered a colony anymore, stop acting like one. You are not a subjugated people that cant stop colonialism. you are part of the colonialism.

    Lorton, im out of space but no. There is a people in the islands but not a different people from Britain. It is well differenciated in the ICJ rulling of Diego Garcia.

    Mar 12th, 2022 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Tænk

    Sr. Liberato...
    Pero qué paciencia..., pibe!
    Seguro que sos de Gimnasia y Esgrima...
    Como 130 años pateandola y nunca un campeonato...!

    Mar 12th, 2022 - 11:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    UN Resolution 567 (VI) of 1952 lays out the conditions for listing as a NSGT

    “The General Assembly,
    Recalling that, in resolution 334 (IV) adopted on 2 December 1949, the General Assembly invited any special committee, which might be appointed on information transmitted under Article 73e of the Charter to examine the factors which should be taken into account in deciding whether any territory is or is not a territory whose people have not yet attained a full measure of self-government,...

    1. Decides to take as a basis the list of factors drawn up at the sixth session of the General Assembly, which list is annexed to the present resolution;...

    Annex
    1. The territories which are covered by Chapter XI of the Charter are those territories whose people have not yet attained a full measure of self-government...

    3. The condition under which the provisions of Chapter XI of the Charter cease to apply will be that the inhabitants of the territory have attained, through political advancement, a full measure of self-government. The fulfilment of this condition may be achieved by various means, involving in all cases the expression of the free will of the people. The two principal means are (a) the attainment of independence and (b) the union of the territory of a footing of equal status with other component parts of the metropolitan or other country or its association on the same conditions...”

    Seems clear enough. To be listed, there had to be a people who had not attained a full measure of self government.

    https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2020/09/1900-to-1959.pdf

    And no, the Chagos AO did not change that.

    Mar 12th, 2022 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    “It is well differenciated in the ICJ rulling of Diego Garcia.”

    Since the UK had not consented, the court has no jurisdiction.

    “Britain rejects International Court of Justice order to return Chagos Islands to Mauritius
    The ICJ’s ruling has no binding status. The British government, determined to hold onto its colonial possessions, has rejected both the ICJ’s order and its unanimous ruling that it has jurisdiction because it relates to a UN process of decolonization, not a dispute between two states.” by Jean Shaoul — 06/03/2019

    Mar 13th, 2022 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Pugol-H

    Liberato
    Still going on about what is none of your business, I see.

    Seriously, this obsession of yours is frankly un-healthy.

    You need to concern yourself with events in your own country, Argenzuela.

    Ersatz Stinke himself has said there is no need for any further dealings between the free peoples of the British S. Atlantic and Kurepi Planter occupied S. America.

    You are free to get on with the rest of your life.

    If you no longer have any reason to exist, you can worry about Diego Garcia, although that will soon be underwater, but hey, never let the truth get in the way of a good story, eh.

    P. S. Remember, you’re at best a S. American (Even that is stretching a point), definitely not a S. Atlantian, not even close.

    Mar 13th, 2022 - 12:49 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Roger Lorton

    As Lippy hasn't rushed back, I'll take the opportunity to quote the Chairman of the UN Decolonization Committee in August 1982 following objection by Venezuela, Cuba and Czechoslovakia to the arrival of Falkland Islanders.

    “I am not going to ask members of the Secretariat to read General Assembly resolution 1466 (XIV), although I shall refer to it. I would point out that these two gentlemen are not here as petitioners; they are here as representatives of the PEOPLE of the Territory which we are about to consider. Therefore, the question of referring any requests to the Sub-Committee on Petitions, Information and Assistance does not arise. That is the practice, has been the practice, and, I hope, will continue to be the practice in this Committee.”

    https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2020/06/1982-to-1999.pdf
    page 16

    Mar 13th, 2022 - 12:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Tænk, y en momentos incluso les explico lo obvio.

    Lorton, ICJ advisory opinion on the chagos case:
    https://www.icj-cij.org/public/files/case-related/169/169-20190225-01-00-EN.pdf

    On page 38:
    ”158. The right to self-determination under customary international law does not impose a specific mechanism for its implementation in all instances, as the Court has observed:
    “The validity of the principle of self-determination, defined as the need to pay
    regard to the freely expressed will of peoples, is not affected by the fact that in certain
    cases the General Assembly has dispensed with the requirement of consulting the
    inhabitants of a given territory. Those instances were based either on the consideration
    that a certain population did not constitute a ‘people’ entitled to self-determination or
    on the conviction that a consultation was totally unnecessary, in view of special
    circumstances.” (Western Sahara, Advisory Opinion, I.C.J. Reports 1975, p. 33,
    para. 59.)“

    We all on every nation constitute a people. But not all people are entitled to self-determination.

    The res you mention is what the UK considered to be the case. You suggest that the UN only accept territories whose people have self-determination rights and becouse the ”islanders” have not choosen any of the general recomendations for delisting they remain being considered a colony but you forgot all the resolutions regarding Malvinas. In the General Assembly, as in the decolonization committe.

    Again, you are desperately saying that yes, they are considered a colony, becouse they do not complied with burocracy and the legal framework at this fourth decade for erradication of colonialism in all its forms?.

    About your last comment i fully agree with the chairman. They are the representatives of the people who lives there and its interests are conserned in that Committe.

    Mar 13th, 2022 - 01:48 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Roger Lorton

    Did you read it properly, Lippy?

    “in certain cases the General Assembly has dispensed with the requirement of CONSULTING the inhabitants of a given territory.”

    Nothing about the Falklanders not being a people then? Para 158 is about consultation and, in particular, that the people of Mauritius were not consulted regarding the separation of the Chagos.

    Res 567(VI) of 1952 was issued by the UN GA and I quoted it accurately. To be listed as a NSGT, there must be a people. The Falklanders are the people of the Falklands NSGT, and All the NSGTs have the right of self-determination. Perhaps Argentina should demand that the Falklands be delisted?

    Of course, the Chagos AO does raise the question of whether the Falklanders should have been consulted regarding the separation of South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands which were Falklands Dependencies. A question for another day, methinks.

    You remain as confused as ever, Lippy. The Chagos AO clearly went against Britain, but it supported all the NSGTs - including the Falklands.

    And in 1982, the Chair of the C24 referred to the People of the Territory, not the people who live there.

    Try harder, Lippy

    Mar 13th, 2022 - 02:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Lorton, what i quoted described the determination by the court of the nature, content and scope of the right to self-determination and if its applicable to the process of decolonization of Mauritius. It start in page 35.

    Consulting the inhabitants of all the NSGT its one of the main requirements of the UN to the NSGT. In what cases that requirement is dispensed?. when a certain population did not constitute a ‘people’ entitled to self-determination or on the conviction that a consultation was totally unnecessary.

    Re-read that link please.


    Quote: ”Res 567(VI) of 1952 was issued by the UN GA and I quoted it accurately. To be listed as a NSGT, there must be a people”. Of course they are a people. But not a people entitled to self-determination as described above.

    You are trully desperate. There are many forms of colonialism and the aim of the res 1514 is to eliminate all of them. We agree that there are no NSGT with no people on it. We agree also that all people have the right to self-determination. Dont believe me, see how Argentina has voted consitentely in that direction. Even in the Chagos case (at the contrary of ....you know who).
    If the inhabitants of Malvinas have automatically gained a self-determination right just by being on the list, then the UK would had voted in favour, the res 2065 and the rest of the resolutions regarding Malvinas would have never existed and visiting mission of the UN to Malvinas would have occurred long time ago. Or also, the “referendum” would have been validated and organized by the UN:

    Let me guess if i follow correctly your theorie. ALL territories under the NSGT list have gained automatically the right to self determination, but becouse of a “burocratic” principle of res 1514 they do not consider the islands to be decolonised?. Is that correct or not?.
    Why was Britain willing to transfer sovereignty to Argentina?. On negotiations sponsored by the UN itself?.

    You not only fail to read a document, you dont read at all.

    Mar 13th, 2022 - 03:24 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Roger Lorton

    Still confused, I see Lippy. I read it. Many times.

    Paragraph 158, deals with the issue of consultation and refers to the (unspecified) times when consultation had supposedly not been deemed necessary. No example provided, however. Nothing in the Chagos AO to say that the Falklanders are not a people. Not a single sentence.

    You say - “We agree that there are no NSGT with no people on it. We agree also that all people have the right to self-determination.”

    Well done Lippy.... you are almost there.

    The listing of the Falklands and its people was 1952. The application of self-determination was Res 1514 of 1960 and extended by 2625 of 1970. So, any listed NSGT has the rights granted in 1514. Ergo, the people of the Falklands NSGT have the right of self-determination. No exceptions under 1514 have ever been identified by the UN or the ICJ.

    The UK did not vote against Res 2065 of 1965. The UK always abstains when the issue is an NSGT - as it had abstained in 1960.

    Of it will assist you, allow me to clarify –
    ALL of the peoples of ALL of the listed NSGTs have the right of (external) self-determination. The UN recognises 3 possible outcomes for NSGT self-determination (Res. 2625). The Falklanders choice of retaining its links with the UK was not one of those three options. Hence, the Falklands remains listed, despite calls from the Islanders that they be so (read Prof Willetts paper which covers this).

    UK has only been willing to transfer sovereignty with the approval of the Falklanders. All the negotiations after 1972 are detailed here -

    https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2020/09/1972-to-1982.pdf

    Reading comprehension, Libby, has consistently been your problem.

    Try harder

    Mar 13th, 2022 - 04:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Falklands-Free

    Liberato, you are going round in ever increasing circles as usual.
    You copy just the tiny parts of the UN documents that fit with your narrow mind.
    We here on the islands call that clutching at straws.
    We as a people have by law the right to determine our own future as set out in the UN.
    Your take on people is from your comments only certain people have rights. That comes accross as you prefer to be a dictator of free choice of any people, the exact attitude Argentina adopts against us and indeed their own people.
    That act of being a dictator was defeated in 1982 and the free people of Argentina tried to restore faith in human society. That has been overruled by your current government. Nothing you write about is relevant you keep telling me but the fact is it is written in history for all to see.
    Argentina has never had a legal claim to our territory but keep the campaign alive because it is the only diversion left to a failed country to stop the free people doing what they should have done in 1982. Completely removed all dictators.
    You included if indeed you were even born then.
    Radical changes need to happen within Argentina and people like you need to be controlled. Failing to do that will see further declining of the country , is that what you hope to eventuality achieve.
    You refuse to listen to anyone other than yourself.

    Mar 13th, 2022 - 10:47 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Roger Lorton

    Thank you for the opportunity to continue Falklands-Free

    Firstly, my error – 1514 was defined by 1541 and extended by 2625. The three possible outcomes are from 1541. And if you see an O where an I should be, I have worn the letters off some of my keys ;-)

    As for the Chagos reference to a 1975 court response, let me emphasise this another way -

    “The validity of the principle of self-determination, defined as the need to pay regard to the freely expressed will of peoples, is NOT affected by the fact that in certain cases the General Assembly has dispensed with the requirement of consulting the inhabitants of a given territory. ...” (Western Sahara, Advisory Opinion, I.C.J. Reports 1975, p. 33, para. 59.)

    “The validity of the principle of self-determination, defined as the need to pay regard to the freely expressed will of peoples, is NOT affected …....”

    “The validity of the principle of self-determination, ... is NOT affected by the fact that in certain cases the General Assembly has dispensed with the requirement of consulting ...”

    So, the rights of self-determination granted by Res 1514, as defined by Res 1541 and Res 2625 are VALID and NOT AFFECTED by certain cases (unspecified) where the GA has dispensed with the requirement ... blah, blah, blah

    Worthy of note that the statement of 1975, was just 3 years after the UN GA had, without (public) discussion and without consultation with the territory's people, delisted the Hong Kong NSGT.

    To put that another way, ….

    “The validity of the principle of self-determination, defined as the need to pay regard to the freely expressed will of peoples, is NOT affected ….... by the UN's abandonment of the people of Hong Kong”

    Mar 13th, 2022 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Jo Bloggs

    I feel sorry for those who were preparing to make the flight. They can, however, take solace that their loss is not without a silver lining. No Argies here during the war dates will go some way to make up for it.

    Mar 13th, 2022 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Lorton, ”Paragraph 158, deals with the issue of consultation and refers to the (unspecified) times when consultation had supposedly not been deemed necessary. No example provided, however. Nothing in the Chagos AO to say that the Falklanders are not a people. Not a single sentence.”.

    I did not quote the ICJ saying that Malvinas are not a people, But saying that not all people are entitled to self-determination. For you, to underestand paragraph 158, you will need to read 157 and 156 where it talks specifically of res 1541. the three paragraph are conected. The important thing is that it proves directly your assumption that becouse there is a people in the islands, they are A people with self-determination rights.

    Hong Kong and Macao is exactly the case where a NSGT was not granted an automatically self-determination right by being on the decolonization list. Following your theorie, China could have never retired them from the NSGT list without consulting the people living there.

    Your theories are so beyond reality that are absolutely boring. And i feel so dumb in responding them. hahaha. So to be clear with your theorie. ALL NSGT are already recognized to have self determination rights since the moment they became a NSGT? (proved wrong above). And they are still listed as colonies becouse they didnt choose one of the three options right?. So, in theorie, you are saying that the UN consider the islanders to be another people different from Britain, but the question is. Why the UN has not dispensed visiting missions? Organized the referendum? Why 40 years of resolutions not taking acount of the wishes of the islanders?. Why british and islanders fuze about not being incorporated as a third party on the british Argentine sovereignty dispute?.

    And another thing. Following your logic, even if the UN grant the status of colony to the islands becouse of burocracy, why should we recognize a new people there that only you recognize but not the UN?.

    Mar 13th, 2022 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Falklands-Free

    Liberato.
    On what grounds do you deny anyone the right to self determination. Only a dictator would make that comment. Does that mean you really are a dictator.
    Every human on this planet has the right to determine their own future . To deny anyone that right goes against the united nations constitution.
    The people of the Falkland Islands exercised that very right in 2013 and verified by an independent international body that they wished to remain a part of the British overseas territories. Are you suggesting that even those internationals had no right to approve that referendum. Please state your reason. Was it just because that was not the choice Argentina wanted to hear. We do have the absolute right to determine our own future.
    Unless Argentina or in particular you can provide concrete evidance that Argentina has more rights than we, the people of the islands do in deciding our future.
    You have as yet provided nothing concrete to sugest otherwise so stop trying to rewrite the constitution of the UN.
    You can repeat this argument for millennium to come and you will still be in exactly the same place you are right now, FRUSTRATED.

    Mar 13th, 2022 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    Lippy, all people have the right of self-determination.

    Those who are people of listed NSGTs have an extra right of cession.

    As the Chagos AO has confirmed.

    FIN

    Mar 13th, 2022 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Tænk

    Uhhhhhhhh....

    “”All people have the right of self-determination.“”..., says a British copper...

    Except for the ~8,000,000 souled population of the bloody, freaking, ugly, self-proclaimed rouge terrorist Russsssssian states of Donetsk..., Luhansk..., Crimea & Transnistria..., of course...

    And..., as the Anglosphere has absolutely no doubt about its Double Standard position on the principle of self-determination as set out in the UN Charter..., they are happily pushing us all to visit my noble ancestors idea of Disneyland...: RAGNARÖK...

    Capisce...?

    Mar 13th, 2022 - 08:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    Yes, Trunk, ALL people have the right of self-determination, even those in Donetsk..., Luhansk..., Crimea & Transnistria. They fall into the category - ALL.

    But they were not listed as NSGTs, and so do not have a right of cession.

    That is the difference between internal and external self-determination.

    Russia seems to be in favour of extending the right of the majority by removing its internal limitation. Not sure that the world is ready for that. Will Spain wave goodbye to Catalonia? Will China support the separation of Tibet? Can Patagonia separate itself from Argentina?

    However you cut it, the Falklanders win.

    Now I grow bored with trying to educate the uneducable; the willfully blind.

    Only the Islanders can change their future and, as the UK is prepared to defend their right, Argentina has become irrelevant.

    FIN FIN

    Mar 13th, 2022 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Tænk

    What a haughty, doublefaced lying Colonialist Anglo you have become..., Copper...

    Pretending to debate about UN concepts & principles you have no knowledge or respect for...

    I preferred you a decade ago when you were an equaly haughty but sincere Colonialist Anglo...

    Mar 13th, 2022 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Liberato

    Falklands-Free, all people on this planet has the right to self determination. But not all population form a new people. The british antartic survey, are a team of people that form part of the british people, but do not form a new people. Have those british in the antartic have a self determination right?. Yes, but not in Antartica. Is that too much difficult to underestand?.
    There are also argentines that were born in the antartic, that goes to school in the antartic but they are argentines with self-determination rights but not on the antartic.

    The “referendum” should have been organized or supported by the UN, as it is one of their aim in the decolonization process. But as the UN does not seems to consider the islands to be a people entitled to self-determination, they do not make visiting mission nor any referendum assistance. I guess the C24 needs to be sure of who is the owner first of the islands if Britain or Argentina to continue decolonization.

    “You can repeat this argument for millennium to come ”.... “ yes, likewise”...

    Lorton, “all people have the right of self-determination”. i agree, if there is a people.... If population would count Nigeria would be the owner of half Cameroon right now.

    Mar 13th, 2022 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Pugol-H

    Liberato
    Clearly the British have a completely version of S. Atlantic history to Argentina, the British position being that the evidence does not support the Argentinian version of events.

    Also a completely different interpretation of self-determination and UN/intl law. Again, the evidence does not support the Argentinian position on this, it cannot be sustained.

    Then the Argentinian constitution say Argentina getting the Islands ‘is the only possible outcome’. For there to be a ‘negotiation’ more than one outcome must be possible.

    To even talk to each other you must at least be on the same planet and that is clearly not the case here.

    There is no way forward, what they call a frozen dispute, if indeed it is actually a dispute at all.

    Unless of course it went to the ICJ, what do you think???

    Ersatz Stinke
    Oh, and the Ukrainians of course are not really a nation and therefore have no rights to their land or to decide their own future, just like the Kelpers.

    And the native inhabitants of S. America, when the Kurepi Planters, implanted themselves and exterminated the natives.

    For some people götterdämmerung is already here and for others it has already been and gone, no one left to tell about it.

    Mar 13th, 2022 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Pugol, Lets stablish some basic facts then ok?

    You: “ The Falkland Islands are a self governing territory”
    UN: ” The Falkland Islands (Malvinas) are a non self-governing territory, administered by the UK and claimed by Argentina”
    https://www.un.org/dppa/decolonization/en/content/falkland-islands-Malvinas#:~:text=The%20Falkland%20Islands%20(Malvinas)*,Charter%20of%20the%20United%20Nations.
    Me: “the only thing correct in your sentence is the word territory”.

    Mar 13th, 2022 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Ann Other

    Chile should ban Argentine aircraft from its airspace if they can't fly where they want ...

    Mar 13th, 2022 - 11:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Falklands-Free

    Liberato could you find and print the exact words of the UN where they say we dont have a right to self determination. You may be looking a very long time.
    Like Roger has already stated it is a total waste of time trying to educate the unedcuatable.

    Mar 13th, 2022 - 11:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Ann Other, And how you know Chileans wants to fly to Malvinas?. Does Chile support the “self-determination” right of Malvinas inhabitants?.

    Falklands-Free, “Liberato could you find and print the exact words of the UN where they say we dont have a right to self determination”.
    Thats exactly the point. If you have a right to self-determination the UN have long time ago assisted you to be delisted. Like assist monserrat, and Antigua and Barbuda, Cook islands, Equatorial Guinea,British Virgin Islands, etc.
    https://www.un.org/dppa/decolonization/en/c24/visiting-missions#:~:text=The%20most%20recent%20visiting%20mission,and%20challenges%20to%20achieve%20sustainable.

    There are many years of UN resolutions regarding Malvinas. And each year, they tell you the same. That the way to put an end to the special and particular colonial situation in the question of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas) is the peaceful and negotiated settlement of the dispute over sovereignty between the Governments of the Argentine Republic and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland;

    So, Lorton was educating this whole time?. I thought he was doing something else!. I guess im gonna have to pass and believe the United Nations this time. Let me know when you convince the UN of your self determination right executed perfectly and then, we can visit each other.

    Mar 14th, 2022 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Terence Hill

    “There are many years of UN resolutions regarding Malvinas.”

    Which still cannot refute the UN Charter articles that give the Islanders and the UK absolute colour of right under international law. While Argentina has not one vestige of law she can rely on.

    Mar 14th, 2022 - 10:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Falklands-Free

    Liberato, there lays the problem. The Falklands islands and Britain have repeatedly stated what they want to the UN but Argentina refuses to accept our wishes.
    Argentina used the excuse we islanders have no right to self determination and Britain repeatedly states they will do nothing against the wishes of the people.
    Clearly you and Argentina cannot accept an outcome that says we do not want to become Argentine.
    What is the absolute point of Britain sitting at a negotiating table with a country like Argentina that wants but one outcome. Argentina is the problem in this whole affair and untill they start accepting that WE the people of the Falkland Islands have made our choice and Great Britain has repeatedly told Argentina of our position yet Argentina continues to use the language we dont exist, this issue will go on forever.
    What else can Britain actually talk about other than trading relations and even then when an agreement was made in 1999, Argentina a few years later tore it up. Clearly Argentina or the likes of you dont want peaceful negotiations otherwise you would accept our wishes that are endorsed by the united kingdom.
    You continue to whinge because it is not about the Falklands but about your own failures. Argentina is a very broken country on the brink of total collapse and the only diversion you have to try to save yourselves is the debate on the islands.
    Its run its course and you just as well admit it.

    Mar 14th, 2022 - 10:43 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Liberato

    Falklands-Free, “The Falklands islands and Britain have repeatedly stated what they want to the UN but Argentina refuses to accept our wishes”.
    Your “wishes” are to keep the status quo and perpetuate colonialism for obvious reasons. The antartic and a vast area of natural resources in an strategic area in british hands, just like the chagoss area. And keeping the islands british is how they manage to do it.
    The UN ask for sovereignty negotiations between the UK and Argentina respecting the interest of the population, not its wishes.
    The problem is not Argentina, that even tried several ways of negotiations, including a seduction policy, an agreement to share oil, trying to incorporate islanders with the continent hoping it would change the colonial problem. It was a total failure. The british used it to fly over Argentina, the agreement on oil was used by britain to exploit it without the part they were gonna share it, and the agreement on fishing scientific was used by Britain to illegally know where to fish without any controll of the fishstocks.

    “Clearly you and Argentina cannot accept an outcome that says we do not want to become Argentine.”. Clearly you want to continue being a colony not respecting the United Nations requirements for several decades.

    “What is the absolute point of Britain sitting at a negotiating table with a country like Argentina that wants but one outcome”.
    How many outcomes are willing to offer the british?. Dont be a hypocrite.

    Again, Wishes are not what the UN is asking for. And why is not asking for your wishes?. Becouse you are not a different people than britain. You are a 98% of british origins stablished even in your census.

    Cheers.

    Mar 14th, 2022 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Falklands-Free

    You have just confirmed liberato why Argentina wont accept our ideals. You state that Britain uses the islands to exploit the natural resources around the islands. Let me clear that statement for you. First Britain gets nothing from exploitation as you put it. The people of the Falkland Islands run their own economy. The only part Britain plays in that is giving us total protection from an aggressive neighbour which by your very own statements wants these untapped reserves we sit upon.
    I need to remind you of another fact. Britain did not tear up the 1999 agreement Argentina did with but one exception. They kept the air link so thay could continue to have access to our islands. Covid has stopped that these past two years and it shows.
    Further Argentina refused to be a partner in certain parts of the oil development because they want it all for them selves. Also the Argentines reneged on the fisheries agreement after the falkland islands people (who they accepted as existing then) gave them all the scientific information in the fishing zone.
    So everything you have said is untrue.
    You say what you believe should be the case never what actually is the case.
    Either way you are still clutching at straws.
    You havet run your course and it is time for you to accept that everything you say is a whole bunch of made up lies to get more attention.
    Do us all a favour and start growing up a bit.

    Mar 14th, 2022 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Terence Hill

    “You want to continue being a colony not respecting the United Nations requirements “

    Aren’t you absolutely the proven liar?
    With the completion of the Referendum UK has fulfilled all its legal obligations under the Charter, as the Islands are now “decolonized”. It's therefore irrelevant who doesn't accept the affirmation of international law, as it is not the UK's problem, as there is no legal power on earth to compel them to do anything else.

    “UN Charter; DECLARATION REGARDING NON-SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORIES; Article 73; Members of the United Nations which have or assume responsibilities for ..peoples have not yet attained ..of self-government recognize the principle that the interests of the inhabitants of these territories are paramount, ..b. to develop self-government, ...”

    Mar 14th, 2022 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Liberato

    Falklands-Free, quote1: “You have just confirmed liberato why Argentina wont accept our ideals”. Nope, we will never accept your ideals of colonialism.
    quote2: “You state that Britain uses the islands to exploit the natural resources around the islands”.Is not what i said. I said the antartic and a vast area of natural resources in an strategic area in british hands.

    quote3:“Further Argentina refused to be a partner in certain parts of the oil development because they want it all for them selves”. i Remember correctly, Argentina did not refused. She was taken aside. Britain was not interest in sharing oil nor anything like that. British oil companies needed some Argentine acceptance and compromise at least for 20 years, so they could invest without risking its investment, into a sovereignty dispute. Britain offered to share oil in disputed area signing the Joint Declaration on Oil of 1995. The british licensed areas to british companies and ignored argentine companies completely.

    About the fisheries commision you said:” Also the Argentines reneged on the fisheries agreement after the falkland islands people (who they accepted as existing then) gave them all the scientific information in the fishing zone.“
    Thats a lie. The loligo is born on our continental zee and then travel to Malvinas shores. You needed that cientific information to know how many catches you could have. You used that information to againt grant licenses and even overfishing.

    Even a diplomat or schoolar went to Malvinas to propose a diplomatic solution and was received by few hostiles that threaten him. His proposal offered an autonomy to the islanders and a referendum in 30 years to independence.

    Your excuse that Argentina refuse to negotiate becouse of our constitution or becouse we claim it all its very ridiculous. No one will go to a negotiation table claiming it will go for half their claim. Argentina does not denounce your ”constitution” have the queen Elizabeth as the head of state!!!.

    Mar 14th, 2022 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Falklands-Free

    Liberato. Like I have already said you twist everything to suit your needs. You refuse to accept the truth.
    That is the nature of indoctrinated people.
    You sure must lead a very dismal life.
    I live on the islands I know who did what in the so called joint agreement.
    But you have confirmed something. Argentina obviously wants to exploit Antarctica otherwise you would not be so annoyed that Britain controls the area and does not exploit it themselves because they signed up to the Antarctic agreement to not exploit that area. We know Argentina would exploit it.
    Have a great day looking for more rubbish to spout.

    Mar 14th, 2022 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Terence Hill

    “You want to continue being a colony not respecting the United Nations requirements “

    Aren’t you absolutely the proven liar?

    ”Decolonization (American English) or Decolonisation (British English) is the undoing of colonialism ... The fundamental right to self-determination is identified by the United Nations as core to decolonization, allowing not only independence, but also other ways of decolonization. The United Nations Special Committee on Decolonization has stated that in the process of decolonization there is no alternative to the colonizer but to allow a process of self-determination.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decolonization

    Mar 14th, 2022 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Falklands-Free, I dont twist things. I have a point of view, evidently different than yours. You are not the owner of the truth. You have to understand that one of the basic facts of life is that not everybody will ever thinks like you. You guys get angry and call me fascist, while you have not one, TEN territories under colonialism in this 21 century!!!!.
    Your “truth”, Is not accepted in Argentina, the United Nations, even in Chile and the USA: I suggest you the same that i suggested Pugol to start from the most basic facts of the two opposing point of views:

    You: “ The Falkland Islands are a self governing territory”
    United Nations: ” The Falkland Islands (Malvinas) or Islas Malvinas (Falklands) are a non self-governing territory, administered by the UK and claimed by Argentina”
    https://www.un.org/dppa/decolonization/en/content/falkland-islands-Malvinas#:~:text=The%20Falkland%20Islands%20(Malvinas)*,Charter%20of%20the%20United%20Nations.

    Am i twisting things????. You obviously do not agree with the UN and obviously you will accuse Argentina of manipulating the UN but is it correct that for the UN the islands are a non self-governing territory?.

    I dont have a dismal life, this dispute will go for ever and it does not affect me, so i see this as a pure relax in the work to practice some english. But i have to admit that these few days i got overpassionate and active on this topic. Where else im gonna debate with you?.

    “Argentina obviously wants to exploit Antarctica otherwise you would not be so annoyed that Britain controls the area”. No and no. Im not annoyed and ive never heard of Argentina planning to exploit the antartic. By turism perhaps? i sincerelly dont know but find incredible that the UK claim almost half the whole South Atlantic (if not all), including the argentine and chilean claim to the antartic.

    I hope your response to a simple fact of life. You think you self-govern yourself and not me and not Argentina, but the UN considers you are not.

    Mar 14th, 2022 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Tænk

    Serás de Gimnasia pero te merecés ser de River, pebete...!
    ;-)))

    Mar 14th, 2022 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Pugol-H

    Liberato
    Errr, sorry you must have me confused with someone else, I made no such comment in my last posting:

    https://en.mercopress.com/2022/03/10/compassionate-charter-flight-to-chile-not-approved-by-government-of-argentina/comments#comment520476

    However your comment of: ‘the only thing correct in your sentence is the word territory’, is a prime example of what I WAS talking about, the only thing both sides can agree upon is that ‘there is a territory’.

    This is not the basis for any kind of ‘talks’ never mind ‘negotiations’.

    Until Argentina accepts the right (as in the UN Charter) of the Islanders to self-determination, this is not going to change, and that does not look likely any time soon.

    This ensures that the Falklands/British S. Atlantic/Antarctic will develop completely separately from Argentina, but develop they will nonetheless.

    Actually, UNGA Res 2065 says:

    ’with a view to finding a peaceful solution to the problem, bearing in mind the provisions and objective of the charter of the UN and of GA resolution 1514 (XV) and the interests of the Falkland Islands population (Malvinas):’

    If you read those documents, the charter of the UN and of GA resolution 1514 (XV), the objective is self-governance and the provision is for self-determination, free from outside interference.

    Also ‘the interests of the Falkland Islands population’, is not going to be best served by being part of Argentina. Be honest, they are doing a much better job of it by themselves.

    Saludos

    P. S. The ten territories are still British because they want to be, democratically expressed wishes of the people of those territories, all have the right to change that any time they want to, hardly a ‘colonial situation’, what more can the British do???

    British claims in the S. Atlantic/Antarctic are very old, Argentinian claims are very new. It should not surprise you that we continue maintain those claims any more than you maintain your (still much newer claims) to Patagonia and TDF.

    Mar 14th, 2022 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Tænk
    jajaja. Gracias!!!. Im just a working class average man, not a history teacher or schoolar.and have no animosity towards them. Nobody is bothering them. But they pretend to have normal relationships like nations and convince us to treat them like a normal nation but they are not. They have a colonial situation fisically administered by people brought from London and regardless Argentina, they failed to convince the UN and even their closest ally of their rightfully sovereignty rights and self-governance.

    Pugol-H, You british are biblically atached to the UN Charter as the americans to the fifth enmend after commiting a crime. While the Charter does not talk specifically about Malvinas. The UN charter and the decolonization process makes to the administering power an obligation to cede control to the NSGT Thats why the UK ( as the administering power) have to inform each year of the condition on the colony. It does not recognize that the people in Malvinas have self-determination rights. More if that NSGT have a sovereignty dispute, which will make it a Special and Particular colonial situation.

    You claim about the UN Charter, and about how malvinazi or fascist we are for not recognising the islanders “right to self-determination” and their “self-government”, but at the same time you dont recognize the UN decolonization process. For you, that belongs to the colonial power, the islands are already decolonised. And here is the problem, for the UN the islands are still in the process of decolonization and even if you says that it is only a burocratic problem of the UN that the islands were not delisted yet, for them, Which represent the international community, the islands remains being a colony.

    So, first, convince the UN that the islands are self-governed and have self-determination rights to get finally delisted from the NSGT list. And then claim to Argentina that the islands are self-governed and decolonised.

    If you fail to do so. Call THEM nazis!!!.

    Mar 14th, 2022 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Falklands-Free

    Liberato. You sure get through a lot of gripe in a day.
    You forget to mention that Argentina is the one rejecting our choice of self determination. Everyone else supports the idea. To be self determined requires military protection because Argentine does not accept that we should determine our own future and as soon as we have removed that protection we know what Argentina will do. We are not stupid.
    Argentina is at the root cause if the whole problem because no matter what we decide to do Argentina refuses to agree unless they get full sovereign status and you and I both know that will never happen.
    So be it many more years of bitching and meanwhile we the islanders continue to develope our way of life and the many internationals that have chosen to make this place their home. Invited by the falkland islanders NOT Britain.
    Keep arguing.

    Mar 15th, 2022 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Monkeymagic

    Liberato

    I am sorry but you are confused.

    The UN decolonization committee recognises all British Overseas Territories as “colonies” for a single reason. That reason is the inhabitants do not vote in UK general elections. It has absolutely nothing to do with Argentinas fake sovereignty claim.

    France resolved the issue for their Overseas Territories by granting the vote to the inhabitants of their territories.

    In that way the territories became “part of France”.

    The UK could do the same thing tomorrow, if they believed any of the following

    1) Its what the inhabitants of the Overseas territories wanted
    2) It was the best thing for the Overseas territories
    3) The UN decolonization committee had any importance whatsoever.

    The UK regularly accepts the wishes of its Overseas Territories to maintain the Status Quo.

    What would of course be true colonialism is that Argentina invades the territory against the wishes of its inhabitants.

    Mar 15th, 2022 - 01:44 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Liberato

    Falklands-Free, you said: “Argentina is the one rejecting our choice of self determination. Everyone else supports the idea”.
    If Argentina is rejecting your choice of self determination. Who is rejecting the other nine territories under british colonialism to their choice of self determination?. And who is everyone else?.

    Monkeymagic, you said: “The UN decolonization committee recognises all British Overseas Territories as “colonies” for a single reason. That reason is the inhabitants do not vote in UK general elections. It has absolutely nothing to do with Argentinas fake sovereignty claim.”

    So what you are saying is that the fact the UN keeps the islands on the colony list is not becouse of Argentina rejecting your choice of self determination and Argentina's claim has nothing to do with it?.. Wow im really confused now becouse i think that the guy that commented before you said the opposite exactly.

    So we are ok then. The UN colony list has nothing to do with argentine claim, right?......

    Mar 15th, 2022 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Judge Jose

    Libby, stop embarrassing yourself. it has been explained to you over and over why the Falklands are still on their list, the UN dont give a toss about Argentinas dubious claim, you have no claim that stands up in a court of law, you just keep on repeating the same old drivel while ignoring the facts presented to you, stop wasting your life on a made up pipe dream and move on,

    Mar 15th, 2022 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Liberato

    Judge Jose, again, If the islands are on the colony list of the UN just for “burocracy”, Then its fine, i accept that, but i will still believe in the UN: Solve the burocracy of the UN so they can officially delist Malvinas from the colony list and it will be just fine for us. Until then, You will still be considered a colony by us and the world. Are you consider Britain more important than the UN for us to believe in you instead of them?.

    Mar 15th, 2022 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Judge Jose

    Libby, no one gives a damn what Argentina thinks, Argentina should be an economic power house, but its not, its a basket case, why? corrupt government after corrupt government and what do corrupt governments do. they LIE, everthing you have been taught is either a lie or a twisted version of facts or downright denial of historical facts which both France and Spain concur with, let it go and move on. in the year 2000, Agentinian politicians were saying the islands would be returned in 20 years. its never going to happen,

    Mar 15th, 2022 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Liberato

    Judge Jose, you have no idea how ridiculous you sound when you try to convince others of a self government in the islands while the UN have them on a colony list requesting for the UK to colaborate in its decolonization each year. And what is worse is to say that the UN already considers them as self governed with self determination rights but do not delist them becouse of a burocracy on its papers!!!. And what is even worse!!!! the United Nations also recognize a sovereignty dispute over that colony asking both governments (UK and Argentina) to negotiate in order to them to continue with decolonization. Something that escapes your theorie is that the UN doesnt know who is the owner of the islands until the dispute is over.

    Mar 15th, 2022 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Judge Jose

    Libby , i sound ridiculous? , you are kidding me, you live in a fantasy world full of waffle drivel twisted facts and untruths from years of indoctrination by corrupt governments,
    stop wasting your life on a dream that will never happen,

    Mar 15th, 2022 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Liberato

    Ok take care!, have a nice day.

    Mar 15th, 2022 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    “The UN have them on a colony list requesting for the UK to colaborate in its decolonization each year”

    With the completion of the Referendum UK has fulfilled all its legal obligations under the Charter, as the Islands are now “decolonized”. It's therefore irrelevant who doesn't accept the affirmation of international law, as it is not the UK's problem, as there is no legal power on earth to compel them to do anything else.

    “UN Charter; DECLARATION REGARDING NON-SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORIES; Article 73; Members of the United Nations which have or assume responsibilities for ..peoples have not yet attained ..of self-government recognize the principle that the interests of the inhabitants of these territories are paramount, ..b. to develop self-government, ...”

    Mar 15th, 2022 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse +2

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