MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Bali, Indonesia will host the Special Committee on Decolonization, Pacific Region
The United Nations Special Committee on Decolonization approved the guidelines and rules of procedure for its 2023 Pacific Regional Seminar, which will be held in Bali, Indonesia, from 24 to 26 May. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesWhat a complete wate of time and money, and a pretty pointless story,
Mar 23rd, 2023 - 12:21 pm - Link - Report abuse +1And the Circus begins again!!!!!!!!!
Mar 23rd, 2023 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Always hold seminars/meetings in the South Pacific and Caribbean, must be tough, reviewing progress achieved in this, the fourth International Decade for the Eradication of Colonialism. No rush then.
Mar 23rd, 2023 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Always refusing to visit the Falklands or Gibraltar.
Well paid holidays, with very little if any meaningful work being done. When was the last time they de-colonised anywhere??? And they never will, just look at who’s on the committee:
China, India, Russian Federation, Syrian Arab Republic, really, on a de-colonisation committee???
Anyone asked the Tibetans, Uyghurs, Kashmiris or Ukrainians what they think about that???
Then there is Bolivia, Chile, Cuba, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of), the only one missing is Argentina itself.
I ever there was a UN organisation unfit for purpose, indeed deliberately counterproductive to its intended purpose and in need of dissolution, this is it.
Greatest thing England gave the world was the British Empire. The Marxist catastrophe after taking the Empire out justifies its greatness. It was governed from the playing fields of Eaton and that is where it fell as the Communist International with Russian money did its work, now England is falling too, same traitors same place!
Mar 23rd, 2023 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Marxist Attlee gave us India in pieces, Burma just take a look, Aden don't book holidays to go there, the “breadbasket” of Africa Rhodesia.. don't go to Zimbabwe if you are looking for bread!
The Marxists want to decolonise Mathematics in Oxbridge and are also in Canterbury! They are trying to destroy everything English, turned history upside down with Presentism lies. Marx himself chose to live in the capital of the Empire because it was the best place to be THEN!
We need to purge Marxism and Islam which are destroying and colonising England
Marxism comes in fuelled by envy and then instills the feeling of guilt totally unfounded but there you are ready to take part in the destruction of England if you bought the decolonisation lies. You will be paying reparations to anything not English for giving world progress!
If we were terrible racists would we be invaded by other races?
Before the end of the last Marxist Government Gordon Brown left the anti-white anti-English brainwashing Equality Act 2010. Marxist infiltrated Conservatives are enforcing it because they are New Labour, in England we have TWO Labour Parties!
Live pea nuts
Mar 23rd, 2023 - 11:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You wouldn't know what a 'marxist' was if it crept up behind you and bit your arse or a socialist or a social democrat or a liberal democrat for that matter
I'm sure it will come as a shock to know that there was no 'English' Empire.
The fact that you are unable to distinguish between England, Great Britain and the UK tells me you are either an Argentine or Russian tro££ or an uneducated American. I suspect the later.
I agree darragh , a very bizarre post by LP,
Mar 23rd, 2023 - 11:16 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Bali?
Mar 24th, 2023 - 01:09 am - Link - Report abuse +1Indonesia?
A well known Non-Self Governing territory on the UN's list.
Very nice. The C24 do know how to enjoy themselves. All paid for by the UN of course.
The Falklands have already conformed with the UN Charter requirement for decolonization, by holding a Referendum.
Mar 24th, 2023 - 05:56 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“UN Charter; DECLARATION REGARDING NON-SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORIES; Article 73; Members of the United Nations which have or assume responsibilities for ..peoples have not yet attained .. self-government recognize the principle ..b. to develop self-government, ...”
”Decolonization (American English) or Decolonisation (British English) is the undoing of colonialism ... The fundamental right to self-determination is identified by the United Nations as core to decolonization, allowing not only independence, but also other ways of decolonization. The United Nations Special Committee on Decolonization has stated that in the process of decolonization there is no alternative to the colonizer but to allow a process of self-determination.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decolonization
Wow This article must be wrong. It includes Malvinas as a non Self-Governing Territory while our british friends here, has told us many times that they are self-governing!!!.
Mar 25th, 2023 - 03:31 am - Link - Report abuse -2Terence Hill, quote:“The Falklands have already conformed with the UN Charter requirement for decolonization, by holding a Referendum.”.
Wow, is that so?. Did you tell the UN about it?. And what was the response?. Did they told you to negotiate with Argentina uh?.
They already voted to be associated with the United Kingdom.
Mar 25th, 2023 - 06:14 am - Link - Report abuse +2We all of us know they very much do not want to be a part of Argentina, this is very certain.
So why would they speak with Argentina about being a part of Argentina?
October 16th,1975
Mar 25th, 2023 - 08:48 am - Link - Report abuse -1The ICJ presents its advisory opinion on two questions concerning Western Sahara; “The validity of the principle of self-determination, defined as the need to pay regard to the freely expressed will of peoples, ...” The Court also states; “The Charter of the United Nations, in Article 1, paragraph 2, indicates, as one of the purposes of the United Nations: “To develop friendly relations among nations based on ...the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples . .” This purpose is further developed in Articles 55 and 56 of the Charter. ...the subsequent development of international law in regard to non-self-governing territories, as enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, made the principle of self-determination applicable to all of them”
Judge Dillard, .. adds; “ .. it is for the people to determine the destiny of the territory and not the territory the destiny of the people.”
Liberato getting all excited again over the word colony, Let it sink into your brain that the toothless powerless pointless committee is irrelevant, so called decolonization that you are obsessed with does not mean the transfer of ownership to Argentina it means transfer to the people who live there. ie the FALKLANDERS, every BOT can have their independence when ever they want, its their home and they decide, deal with it and stop crying,
Mar 25th, 2023 - 10:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Liberato
Mar 25th, 2023 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse +1The territories you refer to are all modern self-governing democracies, with a constitutional arrangement they have chosen, are happy with and can change at any time they want to.
But hey, what does the opinion of the inhabitants matter???
It is clearly of no account to you.
The reason they are still listed as non-self-governing territories is simple, look at who’s on the committee.
This is why self-determination is so important, it ensures that the inhabitants of the territories decide their future, not people like you.
bushpilot, quote: “They already voted to be associated with the United Kingdom.”. You failed to demostrate they are a people distinct to those in Britain and that “referendum” charade was not supported by any UN body. So the importance you give to your own people installed on the islands its irrelevant. They are british and will not want to become anything else than british citizens.
Mar 25th, 2023 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Juan Cervantes, i dont like colonies. Colonies are for imperialistic and powerfull nations like the UK. Who are now extracting oil from nations they were not alowed to. Syria, Iraq, Libya,etc.
quote:“...every BOT can have their independence when ever they want, its their home and they decide,....”. They have always been on the UN list of territories under a decoloniaation process. In all its history, they have never had any other status than the status of colony, now called a Non Self-Governing Territorie“.
Pugol-H quote:”The territories you refer to are all modern self-governing democracies“.
That is your view on the matter. But for the United Nations, your view is the view of the Colonial power of a territorie that was never in history a ”modern self-governing democracy” but a territorie under a colonial situation.
“You failed to demostrate they are a people distinct to those in Britain and that “referendum” charade was not supported by any UN body.”
Mar 25th, 2023 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse -2There is no such requirement under the Charter. If there is you that bear the burden of proof, of your assertion.
“… was not supported by any UN body”
Yes, it was by their silence.
“..qui tacet consentiré videtur-lit. he who is silent is thought to consent. Thus, he who keeps silent is assumed to consent; silence gives consent. In law, the silence of a party implies his consent.. A maxim of crime and consent. qui tacet, consentit-lit. he who is silent agrees. Thus, who keeps silent consents; silence means consent; silent consent is same as expressed consent; consent by conduct is as good as expressed consent. This is an implied term in law....”
SOMA'S DICTIONARY OF LATIN QUOTATIONS MAXIMS AND PHRASES
A Compendium of Latin Thought And Rhetorical Instruments For The Speaker Author And Legal Practitioner
Terence Hill, ahhhh their silence. But isnt the islands still in the process of decolonization?
Mar 25th, 2023 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Liberato, give it a rest for goodness sake, its becoming embarrassing watching your desperate arguments and clutching at any straw , the Falklands are here to stay, they will be in time independent but for now they are happy with BOT status, India China, Russia Iran on a pointless toothless committee are having a paid vacation thats all it is, they all have territory issues themselves, you deny a people to call themselves Falklanders not British, what about the 250 Chileans, the Philippinos the Swedes the Zimbabweans etc, who have settled in the Falklands, they are Falklanders, just like all you Spanish and Italians that settled in Argentina call yourself Argie not Spanish or Italian, your not a stupid man but you let yourself down with your fantasy comments, just like Belize, formerly British Honduras had a bully trying to deny they exist and take over there land the Falklands have the same, enough with the utter nonsense you spout, sheer desperation and pointless arguments, start living in the real world.
Mar 25th, 2023 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse -2“But isnt the islands still in the process of decolonization?
Mar 25th, 2023 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse -1It already has conformed with the UN Charter requirement for decolonization, by holding a Referendum.
“UN Charter; DECLARATION REGARDING NON-SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORIES; Article 73; Members of the United Nations which have or assume responsibilities for ..peoples have not yet attained .. self-government recognize the principle ..b. to develop self-government, ...”
“The United Nations Special Committee on Decolonization has stated that in the process of decolonization there is no alternative to the colonizer but to allow a process of self-determination.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decolonization
October 16th,1975
The ICJ presents its advisory opinion on two questions concerning Western Sahara; “The validity of the principle of self-determination, defined as the need to pay regard to the freely expressed will of peoples, ...” The Court also states; “The Charter of the United Nations, in Article 1, paragraph 2, indicates, as one of the purposes of the United Nations: “To develop friendly relations among nations based on ...the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples . .” This purpose is further developed in Articles 55 and 56 of the Charter. ...the subsequent development of international law in regard to non-self-governing territories, as enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, made the principle of self-determination applicable to all of them”
Judge Dillard, .. adds; “ .. it is for the people to determine the destiny of the territory and not the territory the destiny of the people.”
So darragh enlighten me what is a Marxist? Do you have a clue of what you talk?
Mar 25th, 2023 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse -1And England, if you didn't know, is the motor of everything, the original Empire was English Empire, it included the Falklands. We should be extremely proud of England, in the good old days good stuff was “made in England” none of all this “Great Britain”. So much so that today in Spain and Argentina they still talk about English meaning everything (very small error indeed- same thing I would say)
A Marxist is anybody who wants to implement the Marxist social contract or if you like using their new name a Postmodernist
Juan Cervantes, It is you who needs to give it a rest. Colaborate with the UN and decolonize the ten territories that remains under british colonialism. End negotiations with Mauritious, return to them their territory and stop exploiting natural resources your armed forces previously ransacked.
Mar 25th, 2023 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Stop the operations Shock and Awe and imprison the criminals of war you have that made those “mystaken” wars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yr-LaMhvro.
Give peace a chance for crist sake.
Terence Hill, “It already has conformed with the UN Charter requirement for decolonization, by holding a Referendum.”. Thats your point of view. Not in the eyes of the UN that keeps the islands under the process of decolonization.
How ridiculous you are Liberato, if you truly believe the stuff you spout then either counsiling or deprograming is required, clearly you are a political fanatic and a member of your crazy right wing government, wasting your time posting lies and distorted facts will achieve nothing, i am done with your spiel, go cry into your pillow and takes some medication,
Mar 25th, 2023 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Bud Spencer, how many wars a soldier of your nationality has lived through?. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, etc. And you think those wars were to defend freedom and democracy?. Are you that dumb?.Why dont you go to those places and ask people what they think?.
Mar 25th, 2023 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse -1I didnt saw Putin arming Saddam Hussein with weapons, money or mercenaries to stop you back in 2003. I didnt saw Gaddafi atacking its neighbours either. but i see British and North Americans oil companies exploiting their natural resources as we speak.
In response to your statement, i truly believe in what i said, and im not a fanatic. Any doubt you have about what i said i can easilly prove it with british sources. Just name what you consider a lie and i will EASILLY prove it.
Cant speak for Bud, but would the people of Afghanistan want the west to return there to police the country . yes they dam well would, so girls can go to school and have a work career, does Iraq want to return to the Saddam Hussein days, clearly they dont, does Libya want Gadaffi back, definately not, the West has made mistakes just like Argentina has , you live in a cuckoo world, everything you say is distorted or downright lies, and like Bud says go cry in to your pillow over a fantasy and myth, the Falklands will still be here in 10 years, 20 years, 50 years, 100 years and thats a fact, get a life and find something better to do, i couldnt agree more with Budd, i too waste no more time on a political fanatic,
Mar 25th, 2023 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Juan Cervantes, ahhh so a ten years invasion of Iraq, millons of civilians dead, their natural resources looted but its better becouse they killed Saddam Hussein?.
Mar 25th, 2023 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Ten years invasion of Afghanistan, against the Taliban (that was an american invention to counter the soviets), And left to be replaced by the same enemy?.
Libya and Gadaffi. How is now Libya?. Is it better?.
Like i said, go to those places and ask them if they prefer the “democracy” you offers them while exploiting their natural resources or the dictators?.
There is a thing called sovereignty. You must respect it the same way you are asking the russians to respect.
Its impossible to underestand how can you invade a sovereign nation for having weapons of mass destruction, killing millons of people without finding those weapons and exploiting their natural resources in the process to later say that it was a mistake!!!!.
Lets imagine that the excuse was not the lie about weapons of mass destruction or the Al Qaeda conection. Lets imagine that it was to remove the cruel dictator of Saddam Hussein. Millons of civilians dead, ten year occupation and its oil being extracted to this day by your oil companies????.
What can you tell Putin if he tell you the invasion of Ukraine is to remove Zelenski?. Or that zelenski has weapons of mass destruction?. Or declare that opps it was a mistake.
You obviously are the fanatics. You only need a cross in the military uniforms and start another cruzade.
An American invention to counter the Soviets, what a stupid little man you are, the Soviet Union had been dissolved ,
Mar 25th, 2023 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Juan Cervantes
Mar 25th, 2023 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwpR6ngoSjQ
You need to read history.
Liberato, anyone can pull up a video from youtube with theories and opinions, its meaningless, you say read history, funnily enough my subjects are Economics, politics, Geography and History, was shit at Maths though, so i would back my knowledge against you any time, social media is entertainment nothing more, are you forgetting the twin towers ?, the west went in to Afghanistan for the right reasons but did not have the political will to see it through, hence the stupid deal Trump, signed with the Taliban, Iraq was a huge mistake and the West was clearly wrong and the vast majority of people in the west know that, Libya was an uprising on their own during the arab spring, the west tried to help nothing more, we tried to stop the slaughter of people but in the end we made things worse in the short term, all 3 are completely different issues and if you stopped reading your newspaper the Daily Propaganda. Brainwashing edition you could see that, As someone who is now retired i educate myself , not a fan of the British government or any that whip up nationalism to hide their mistakes, may be you should go to another country and do some studying and open your mind, try Switzerland,
Mar 25th, 2023 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“Thats your point of view. Not in the eyes of the UN that keeps the islands under the process of decolonization.”
Mar 25th, 2023 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse -2No, that’s not how international law works. All you have done is presented the opinion of sub, subcommittee, in which it or its senior, the Fourth committee, or even the UNGA are vested with no lawful authority. Merely, the issuing of advisements. In fact, both the UK, and the Islanders are both so endured with the colour of right, that legally they are unimpeachable.
So, dream on little fruitcake.
Terence, Libby has been told over and over again that the c24 committee is nothing but a sub committee of no standing but he gets excited about it and almost has an orgasm every time he hears the word colony, you are correct in what you say but unfortunately he is so indoctrinated by Buenos Aires propaganda he will never accept the facts no matter how many times he is given them, he is clueless about politics and history and just quotes tabloid bee ess, his statement about that America invaded Afghanistan to counter the Soviets proves just that, he tries to compare other situations with the Falklands that are not remotely the same issue, Mauritius is an example of that, every case he has put forward has been debunked and dismissed but still he keeps saying them like a parrot, one day the Argentine public will mature and see through all the right wing nonsense but it will take a couple of generations of deprogramming, goodnight. .
Mar 25th, 2023 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Juan Cervantes. It is not a theorie or an opinion. I linked a youtube video of the former vicepresident of the US to be easilly for you to underestand. You should had readed the source you wanted and prove me wrong with other sources. If you want, i can give you the links to many westerns media webs relating the history of Taliban, Al Qaeda, The North Alliance, etc.
Mar 25th, 2023 - 10:54 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Iraq invation was a huge mistake you say????. So invading a sovereign nation with a lie its a mistake. But the russian invation of Ukraine its an act of an evil criminal?. Is that what you suggest?. Pardon me, but making operation “shock and awe” and then tell those people bombed it was a mistake i find it very, very, disturbing.
You have shitty polititians, as we have shitty polititians. But dont be that fool to support your sons going to war every 5 year to “liberate” a nation or to deliver “demoracy”.
Libya is devastared. Syria is devastated. Iraq is devastated. But British oil companies have jobs. You think im Brainwashed?. You want me to show you the pictures of what was left by your democracy delivery?.
You have to use the simple logic. A war every 5 years, is not for liberation purposes or to deliver democracy. There is no way. This is just a modern Roman Empire. Unfortunetally, going this path, we will end up in ww3.
Terence Hill, foget the c24. What has ever said the United Nations regarding the status of Malvinas islands?.
Syria devastated, yes by ISIS and then Russia and Assad, western involvement was small, mainly to give arms to the Kurds to stop genocide by ISIS,
Mar 26th, 2023 - 12:27 am - Link - Report abuse -1and devastation in Iraq yes i have already said how wrong it was but you fail to mention that a lot of the devastation has been by Iraqi on Iraqi, different sects hate each other,
a war every 5 years ? what on earth are you on about, the vast majority of Brits do not want any wars ever , Roman Empire ? more conspiracy nonsense, what planet do you live on, if WW3 was to break out and its highly unlikely then its down to the mad midget from Moscow, no one else, yes you clearly are indoctrinated and a fanatic as your posts prove and always have to have the final say,
What has ever said the United Nations regarding the status of Malvinas islands?”
Mar 26th, 2023 - 01:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0As to the Referendum? Nothing, again only silence.
“.qui tacet consentiré videtur-lit. he who is silent is thought to consent. Thus, he who keeps silent is assumed to consent; silence gives consent. In law, the rsilence of a party implies his consent... A maxim of crime and consent. qui tacet, consentit-lit. he who is silent agrees. Thus, who keeps silent consents; silence means consent; silent consent is same as expressed consent; consent by conduct is as good as expressed consent. This is an implied term in law....”
SOMA'S DICTIONARY OF LATIN QUOTATIONS MAXIMS AND PHRASES
A Compendium of Latin Thought And Rhetorical Instruments For The Speaker Author And Legal Practitioner
Liberato
Mar 26th, 2023 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lets pretend for a second that you are correct, and that the Falklands are still a colony, requiring the help of the decolonization committee to decolonize.
In the last 70 years many former colonies were on the list and they followed one of the three methods the decolonization committee allow to come of the list:
1) The people of the colony choose independence
2) The people of the colony choose to become full unified in the host country
3) The people of the colony choose to become fully integrated into another country
It is the fact the people of the British Overseas Territories want a fourth option that the Decolonization committee do not accept.
It would be quite simple for the British Overseas Territories to take one of the three options and call the bluff of the decolonization committee, but they choose not to.
I notice there is no fifth option, the people of the colony are forced against their will to hand their territory to a belligerent and corrupt neighbour and either be governed by their failed state or leave.....which appears to be your proposal.
Monkeymagic, The UN is not expecting the islanders to choose on one of the three options. In fact, for such a move they need to know first whether the islands belongs to Argentina or the UK. Why? becouse it would change the whole nature of the colonial situation.
Mar 26th, 2023 - 09:22 pm - Link - Report abuse -1If the territory belongs to Argentina, they would wonder why Argentines were not alowed to reside in their own territory?. Why they were not alowed to work there?, buy a property?, start a business?. Why they were forced to use a passport?, etc.
If the UN considers the islands to be british, then it would be the same case as the other territories under british colonialim (except Gibraltar) where the UN organize visiting missions, assist in organizing referendums and cooperate with the administering powers to advance in its aim of decolonization.
What the UN in all bodies of it, has always said is that Malvinas has a special and particular colonial situation where its sovereignty, is in dispute between the UK and Argentina. They cant solve sovereignty disputes but they need both to negotiate to continue the process of decolonization.
There are only two territories under british colonialism, where the UN has not made any visiting missions nor any assistance of any kind.. Do you know which are those territories?.
You have already been appraised of that status before, by no less a luminary than Rosalyn Higgins President of ICJ who arrived at a similar conclusion when she pointed out:
Mar 27th, 2023 - 01:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0“No tribunal could tell her [Argentina] that she has to accept British title because she has acquiesced to it But what the protests do not do is to defeat the British title, which was built up in other ways through Argentina’s acquiescence.” 1
1. Rosalyn Higgins, “Falklands and the Law,” Observer, 2 May 1982.
And by the highest US legal examination.
“…this was a sufficient period to extinguish Argentina's claim in spite of her diplomatic protests.
“Great Britain has acquired title to the Islands by extinctive prescription Argentina did not take advantage of the available international bodies for peaceful adjudication of the disputed title.
6. Comparison of the Competing Claims of Argentina and GB
Regardless of the conclusion reached above, however, the establishment of the world courts changed the situation so that diplomatic protests were no longer sufficient to keep Argentina's claim to sovereignty alive.”
The Falklands (Malvinas) Islands: An International Law Analysis of the Dispute Between Argentina and Great Britain Major James Francis Gravelle
MILITARY LAW REVIEW CONTEMPORARY INTERNATIONAL LEGAL ISSUES
Pamphlet NO. 27-100-107 HEADQUARTERS DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY; Washington, D.C., Winter 1985
Liberato
Mar 27th, 2023 - 07:58 am - Link - Report abuse +1As I suspected, you believe the decolonization committee has any scope to discuss sovereignty, it does not. Its sole and only purpose is to represent the people of non-self governing territories.
It is therefore by your own admission failing in its purpose, and ignoring the General Assembly directive that a sovereignty dispute does not over-rule the right of non-selg governing territories to self determination.
Based on the fact the committee is wilfully ignoring its brief, we can wilfully ignore its recommendations.
Liberato
Mar 27th, 2023 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0‘Modern self-governing democracies’, is the view of the Inhabitants of the Territories.
But hey, what does the opinion of the inhabitants matter???
It is clearly of no account to you, despite their opinion being the only one that counts.
And that’s the point here, you categorise people according to the needs of your own political agenda, completely ignoring their rights in the process.
You know very well why the C24 will not de-colonise any territories, not just the Malvinas.
This is why self-determination is so important, it ensures that the inhabitants of the territories decide their future, not people like you, deciding it for them for ideological/political reasons of your own.
‘millons of civilians dead, their natural resources looted’, err, Conquest of the Desert anyone.
“The fact the committee is wilfully ignoring its brief, we can wilfully ignore its recommendations”.
Mar 27th, 2023 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Christopher Hitchens
Monkeymagic, i said that the UN cant solve sovereignty disputes. Thats why they invites the two sides to negotiate sovereignty so they can continue with their decolonization aim. Go read again what i said.
Mar 28th, 2023 - 02:57 am - Link - Report abuse -1You claimed that the islands choosed not to be decolonized becouse they want a fourth option. What i said is that the four option is if we give for granted that there is no sovereignty dispute and a people with self-determination rights.
The UN does not recognize british sovereignty nor argentine sovereignty over the islands. If negotiations or arbitration or whatever determine that the islands are argentines, the form of colonialism would be different than if that negotiation or arbitration determine that the islands are british.
So, Or they are in a colonial situation or they are not, right?. They are, BUT, there are many forms of colonialism. And even if the UK mantains a perfect democracy, electing representatives of the islands in Parliament, etc. It would still be a territory under a colonial situation if you do that in somebody elses territory.
The UN, to continue with decolonization of Malvinas, need to know first, who is the owner of the place?. Thats why there will be no visiting mission, nor referendum support, from no body of the UN until the sovereignty dispute is solved. And thats why historically all resolutions regarding Malvinas, recalls the two sides to negotiate sovereignty. You can cry about the C24 members or the almighty Argentina's super power making lobby to UN members, but all the rest of the territories under british colonialism has had the support and assistance of the UN and UN Decolonization Committe. Except Malvinas and Gibraltar.
Pugol-H, the opinion of the inhabitants matter?. Yes, but not regarding the sovereignty dispute and its decolonization. There are even more people of british origins in Malvinas than in Britain itself or (i dare to say) in the british bases in the Antartic.
“The UN, to continue with decolonization of Malvinas, need to know first, who is the owner of the place?”
Mar 28th, 2023 - 08:47 am - Link - Report abuse +1They have the answer from numerous ICJ determinations, and legal opinions of experts.
Moreover, everyone is bound by the Charter itself and the requirements of Article 73. Since Argentina is barred from any legal claim by the passage of time and constraints of “Great Britain has acquired title to the Islands by extinctive prescription Argentina did not take advantage of the available international bodies for peaceful adjudication of the disputed title.
The Falklands (Malvinas) Islands: An International Law Analysis of the Dispute Between Argentina and Great Britain Major James Francis Gravelle.
And the following treaties.
The Peace of Utrecht, which explicitly bars any Argentine claim of succession.
The Convention of Settlement, 1850.
Libby, no one is crying about the irrelevant c24 committee, people are just pointing out to you that they are of no relevance what so ever, it is the Argentine government who constantly cries and moans at every opportunity they get on the international scene,
Mar 28th, 2023 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse +1there are more people of British origins in the Falklands than in Britain itself ? keep off the magic mushrooms Lib, and dont get too excited over your colony word obsession, as
Liberato
Mar 28th, 2023 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The fact is, the argument that Argentina has a valid sovereignty claim in the first place, vis a vie the British claim, cannot be sustained.
An alleged ‘sovereignty dispute’ claimed (erroneously) by Argentina, does not affect the rights of the inhabitants to self-determination.
Argentina and Spain have twice proposed a resolution to the UNGA limiting the right of self-determination, where there is an existing sovereignty dispute, it was rejected both times by a large majority.
Followed by the passing of a resolution, by a large majority, stating there is no alternative to self-determination.
Did Argentina not get the memo? Or was it just ignored?
The C24 are now so irrelevant that they can legitimately be ignored, for the time they have left.
How many Argentinian Military personnel are stationed in Patagonia and TDF then? Where they are an alien occupying force.
Unlike the British military in the S. Atlantic.
“The provisions and objectives of the Charter of the United Nations, including the principle of territorial integrity.”
Mar 28th, 2023 - 03:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It cannot be applied to an act that preceded the creation of the Charter.
Intertemporal Law
“The rule that the effect of an act is to be determined by the law of the time when it was done, not of the law of the time when the claim is made, is elementary and important. It is merely an aspect of the rule against retroactive laws, and to that extent may be regarded as a general principle of law. It is especially important in international law because of the length of the life of states. It is peculiarly apt to questions of title; though by no means confined to questions of title,”
As the former President of the ICJ wrote:
The Acquisition of Territory in International Law
by Robert Yewdall Jennings
Juan Cervantes, an Pugol-H. The United Nations entered in the Fourth International Decade for the Eradication of Colonialism.
Mar 28th, 2023 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.un.org/dppa/decolonization/en/history/international-decades
Having said that, we must assume that if we are in the “Fourth Decade for...” its becouse there is still colonialism. And if there is colonialism, there are colonies. and so on. You have your right to think differently and think that Malvinas are not in a colonial situation, you can think there is a people with self-determination right there and you can think that they are not officially decolonized becouse they didnt choose a “three” UN option.
Even if taking your point of view, that the islands are self- governed, self-determined with self-determination rights but that remains in the colony list becouse supposedly there is no fourth option. The fact remains, that now, you are still considered a colony. Not only by the c24, but for the entire United Nations Organization.
So, taking aside the sovereignty dispute, the characteristic of the population, the c24 and the differences regarding the islands. For the UN, Malvinas TODAY, remains being a colony, administered by the UK, claimed by Argentina.
Claim all you want. We are in the Fourth International Decade for the Eradication of Colonialism.on the United Nations.
Liberato
Mar 28th, 2023 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unfortunately you are wrong. I know it is complicated but you must try and understand.
You are confusing “the UN” with the C24 sub-committee, who do not speak for any other body of the UN and very often have to resolutions they propose changed by the UN General Assembly.
The C24 have one role, and one role only, to follow one of the three paths to decolonisation, they are in no position to comment on sovereignty, advise on sovereignty, or even give a suggestion that a sovereignty dispute stops decolonisation. They have tried to pass that through the General Assembly and failed. It is quite simple, for the non-self governing territories the ONLY route is self-determination.
All you are repeating is that the C24 reuse to listen to the General Assembly.
Both are advisory, but when you say the UN, you must be clear that the C24 is not “the UN”,
So unfortunately the C24 ignore their mandate, ignore the guidance from the general Assembly and rely on rather foolish people parroting their obvious bias as “the view of the UN”
Until you have an ICJ judgement that says the inhabitants of the Falklands do not have the right to self determination, you have nothing.
“For the UN, Malvinas TODAY, remains being a colony”
Mar 28th, 2023 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not when you are legally decolonized by virtue of a Referendum.
“Residual Colonialism In The 21St Century”. United Nations University. Retrieved 18 October 2019. The decolonization agenda championed by the United Nations is not based exclusively on independence. There are three other ways in which an NSGT can exercise self-determination and reach a full measure of self-government (all of them equally legitimate): integration within the administering power, free association with the administering power, or some other mutually agreed upon option for self-rule. [...] It is the exercise of the human right of self-determination, rather than independence per se, that the United Nations has continued to push for.”
Monkeymagic, All resolutions mentioned in the link i gave above, are all General Assembly resolutions. I suggest you to read them.
Mar 29th, 2023 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse -1The c24, the UN, takes no position regarding sovereignty. And i have cleared it more than once. The problem for you is not the c24. The problem for you, is Argentina.
Fourth International Decade for the Eradication of Colonialism (2021 - 2030)
https://www.un.org/dppa/decolonization/en/history/international-decades
From the 17 remaining territories under colonialism. !0 remains under british colonialism.
The problem for us is Argentina ?. not in your wildest dreams is Argentina a problem , your colony word obsession grows by the day, move on Libbo., you aint getting the Falklands not now not ever unless the people who live there choose so, i can not for the life of me understand why you waste so much of your life on this fantasy,
Mar 29th, 2023 - 12:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0“From the 17 remaining territories under colonialism. !0 remains under british colonialism.”
Mar 29th, 2023 - 01:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0The only legal effect is as provided at https://en.mercopress.com/2023/03/23/bali-indonesia-will-host-the-special-committee-on-decolonization-pacific-region/comments#comment525189
C 24 is a toothless-tiger, since it has no legal authority under international law.
Guys, with all due respect, the monkeys are smarter than you. Im telling you that the United Nations are in its Fourth International Decade for the Eradication of Colonialism trying to end colonialism in all its forms. That includes, ten territories that are under british colonialism and you get offended by me, becouse i use the word colony?.
Mar 29th, 2023 - 04:20 am - Link - Report abuse -1Goodby geniusis!!!.
Libbo. why would we be offended about your obsession with the word colony, ? to us its just piffle and quite laughable, and with all due respect to you if monkeys are smarter than us then sheep are certainly more intelligent than you,
Mar 29th, 2023 - 07:06 am - Link - Report abuse +1Liberato
Mar 29th, 2023 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I’ll say it again:
‘Argentina and Spain have twice proposed a resolution to the UNGA limiting the right of self-determination, where there is an existing sovereignty dispute, it was rejected both times by a large majority.’
So, the UNGA decision is that the right to self-determination of the NSGTs is unaffected by any alleged sovereignty dispute.
As Monkeymagic correctly says the C24 committee cannot overrule a decision of the General Assembly, it can only follow it or act illegally.
You should also note that the C24 has to act in conjunction with the Administering powers to do anything, where the UK and US whilst retaining their seats, do not participate in the committee in protest at the actions and composition of the committee.
So, complete deadlock with no change in sight. Best idea I have heard is to de-fund the C24 so it can still sit but at the expense of the members, no more paid holidays in Bali.
And if you think this situation puts any pressure on the British to negotiate then you are simply deluding yourself.
Meanwhile the NSGTs continue to develop apace in the way they have chosen, in the case of the Malvinas without any connection or even contact with Argentina.
And so it will continue, you can argue ‘special colonial situations’ and ‘colonies’ till the cows come home, it changes nothing in the real world and certainly does nothing to advance Argentina’s cause, indeed it ensures the continued exclusion of Argentina from the S. Atlantic.
Which suits the British cause very well. But you obviously do not realise that that.
Liberato
Mar 29th, 2023 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse +1You seem to believe that either GA/SPD/406 in 2008 does not exist and the vote went in the favour of Argentina.
You claim that a sovereignty dispute supersedes the right of a non-self governing territories people the right to self determination.
This was voted on by the UN GA in 2008 and the C24 and Argentina LOST, It does not.
You had your vote and lost.
The only method for ALL non-self governing territories is SELF DETERMINATION.
Now we have established that, if the C24 want to doggedly accept that only the three options I outlined are acceptable means to get off the list...I repeat, which do you want the Falkland Islanders to choose, as its their choice...or equally their choice to stay on the list.
Best wishes, but you are wrong.
May be now Just may be senor Liberato can now see the reality of the situation, and finally see the truth,
Mar 29th, 2023 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Monkeymagic, https://press.un.org/en/2008/gaspd406.doc.htm
Mar 29th, 2023 - 11:31 pm - Link - Report abuse -1The Fourth Committee (Special Political and Decolonization) would have the General Assembly reaffirm the inalienable right of the peoples of 11 of the 16 remaining Non-Self-Governing Territories to self-determination by an “omnibus” draft resolution it approved today.
The omnibus text -- on the questions of American Samoa, Anguilla, Bermuda, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Guam, Montserrat, Pitcairn, Saint Helena, Turks and Caicos Islands, and the United States Virgin Islands and included as the sixth draft resolution in the report of the Special Committee on Decolonization (document A/63/23) -- achieved consensus only after an amendment to its second operative paragraph was adopted by a recorded vote of 61 in favour to 40 against, with 47 abstentions.
The amendment of c24 draft resolution A/63/23, which struck the qualifying phrase “and where there is no dispute over sovereignty” was about those 11 territories that do not include Malvinas.
But did you read what the draft resolution said about the question of Malvinas..?.
A/63/23:
”...Distressed that, notwithstanding the time that has elapsed since the adoption of
General Assembly resolution 2065 (XX), this prolonged dispute has not yet been
settled, “
”1. Reiterates that the way to put an end to the special and particular colonial
situation in the question of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas) is the peaceful and
negotiated settlement of the dispute over sovereignty between the Governments of
the Argentine Republic and the United Kingdom of Great Britain”....
link:
documents-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N08/409/66/PDF/N0840966.pdf?OpenElement
No Liberato
Mar 30th, 2023 - 06:06 am - Link - Report abuse +1You know full well that the C24 tried to separate the 11 territories and added “where no sovereignty dispute exists” to give them a special and different status...the General assembly voted to remove the words “where no sovereignty dispute exists” to include ALL territories to show there was no difference between the eleven and the other five.
Read the resolution, the majority voted that ALL territories have the right to self-determination highlighting the biased and wholly wrong view of the C24. It was a humiliation for Argentina and its lies.
So, quite clearly all would like an end to the Malvinas myth, and its end is by recognising the unalienable right to self determination of the Falkland Islanders.
Perhaps its time for a wholesale change in countries on the C24. Pick fewer from the 40 that voted with Argentina and far more from the 61 that voted with the UK....
Unfortunately Bud. Libbo is a fanatic and cant accept anything other than what he thinks is the truth, you can see from his posts how he tries to distort things, his Falklands myth obsession will stay with him no matter how many times the facts are presented to him.
Mar 30th, 2023 - 07:54 am - Link - Report abuse +1Its quite fun making a fool out him and Argentina though, they are no nearer colonising the Falklands now than at any time in the past 40 years.
Mar 30th, 2023 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse +1The reason is that its a myth built on lies.
If you listen to the myth, and of course Argentina is a “victim”
If you find the truth, Argentina is only a victim of itself, its corruption, its lies and its deceit.
So for Liberato its far better to live with the myth.
Liberato
Mar 30th, 2023 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lost the vote and now lost the plot.
Ok, ‘the special and particular colonial situation’ continues for now.
So what, the Islands continue to develop apace in the way they have chosen, without any connection or even contact with Argentina.
https://en.mercopress.com/2023/03/27/falklands-sea-lion-development-offshore-could-be-reached-next-year-estimates-rockhopper-exploration/comments
And Argentina continues to be excluded from the S. Atlantic and also eventually from the Antarctic, when the Antarctic treaty expires and British sovereignty, once again, applies there as well.
What have you or are you achieving, how does this advance Argentina’s cause???
You should look at Spain and Gibraltar, where after decades of trying to ignore them, Spain are now desperate to reach a deal to keep the border open with Gibraltar, because of the economic importance of Gib to that whole region of Spain, one of the poorest regions in Europe.
Where is your ‘special and particular colonial situation’ in all that talking??? Nowhere, not even mentioned, history has passed it by.
For the Islanders it is a case of no Argentina, no problems, futures so bright they gotta wear shades.
“The way to put an end to the special and particular colonial
Mar 30th, 2023 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0situation in the question of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas) is the peaceful and
negotiated settlement of the dispute”
“There is no obligation in general international law to settle disputes”.
Principles of Public International Law, third edition, 1979 by Ian Brownlie
The UK can rely on the Peace of Utrecht, which explicitly bars any Argentine claim of succession.
There was a peace treaty, which was acknowledged as such in both the Argentine and the UK in their own archives, the Convention of Settlement, 1850. This is how legal scholars of the day and therefore nations viewed the effects of such a peace treaty to wit:
LAWS OF WAR By H. W. HALLECK, 1866, CHAPTER XXXIV, TREATIES OF PEACE.
§ 12. Principle of uti possidetes. A treaty of peace leaves every thing in the state in which it finds it, unless there be some express stipulations to the contrary. The existing state of possession is maintained, except so far as altered by the terms of the treaty. If nothing be said about the conquered country or places, they remain with the possessor, and his title cannot afterward be called in question. ... ...Treaties of peace, made by the competent authorities of such governments, are obligatory upon the whole nation, and, consequently, upon all succeeding governments, whatever may be their character.
While the USS army considers.
“...Argentina …title to the Islands. None …argued by Argentina …establishing sovereignty. …the rules concerning the mode of extinctive prescription to GB ‘s claim … involves possession, ... this was a sufficient …to extinguish Argentina's claim in spite of her diplomatic protests. Regardless …however, the establishment of the world courts …protests were no longer sufficient to keep Argentina's claim to sovereignty alive. ”
The Falklands (Malvinas) Islands: … James Francis Gravelle
MILITARY LAW REVIEW …
Pamphlet NO. 27-100-107 Washington, D.C., Winter 1985
Monkeymagic in the link of the draft resolutions documents-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N08/409/66/PDF/N0840966.pdf?OpenElement
Mar 30th, 2023 - 10:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0its the full text before the amendment.
quote:“Its quite fun making a fool out him and Argentina though, they are no nearer colonising the Falklands now than at any time in the past 40 years.”
The UN is in its Fourth International Decade for the Eradication of Colonialism where the UK remains being the colonial power of ten territories and you claim that Argentina wants to colonize Malvinas?. Human idiocy. The most evil dictators went to church thinking they were clean as a virgin pubert. the same way soldiers go to Syria thinking they are fighting for freedom and democracy.
Pugol-H, the special and particular colonial situation existed and will exist while the status quo remains. Malvinas never had any other status than a territory under british colonialism.
“And Argentina continues to be excluded from the S. Atlantic and also eventually from the Antarctic”. OH so, you want us to accept the british in the south atlantic so they are gonna share it with us?. How nice of you.
Gibraltar ( as the other bots) is known as tax heaven, specialized in smugling cigarettes to Europe. It does not enrichen the neighbouring cities, it empoveris them.
Terence Hill, i agree, There is no obligation in general international law to settle disputes. Nobody is forcing the UK.
“i agree, There is no obligation in general international law to settle disputes”
Mar 30th, 2023 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is noted your silence says everything.
“… he who is silent is thought to consent. Thus, he who keeps silent is assumed to consent; silence gives consent. In law, the silence of a party implies his consent. …” SOMA'S DICTIONARY OF LATIN ...
The Peace of Utrecht, which explicitly bars any Argentine claim of succession.
And a treaty of peace leaves every thing in the state in which it finds it, unless there be some express stipulations to the contrary.
While the USS army considers.
“the establishment of the world courts changed the situation so that diplomatic protests were no longer sufficient to keep Argentina's claim to sovereignty alive.”
Liberato
Apr 01st, 2023 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse +1‘the special and particular colonial situation existed and will exist while the status quo remains.’
Yes and the status quo suits us but not Argentina, my question was:
‘What have you or are you achieving, how does this advance Argentina’s cause???’
You have no choice about the British being in the S. Atlantic, whether you accept it or not is irrelevant. We are there and you are not and you clearly have no idea how to change that.
And the Antarctic will follow, if you cannot get the British out of the S. Atlantic, you cannot prevent British sovereignty, once again, applying there as well.
Yeah, yeah black money, cigarette smuggling and parasitizing are what some nationalists politicians claim in Madrid, however there is no evidence to support this, indeed the evidence contradicts this and this view is not shared by local politicians who get very angry when people in Madrid, unaffected by this, threaten their livelihood.
Like you, some in Madrid are happy to destroy the lives of OTHER people for their own political ends.
Some 12,000 Spanish workers cross the border into Gib every day, money spend by Gib on goods and services from Spain represents 40% of the local economy.
This is why Spain is so desperate for a deal, they cannot afford not to have one as it would collapse the local Spanish economy. If that happened the Campo de Gibraltar would probably secede from Spain and apply to become a BOT.
Oh, and there are no discussions on sovereignty, history has passed it by.
You might try putting people and not politics first in situations, it’s the humanitarian approach.
Liberato
Apr 01st, 2023 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina was a colony, at not time in history was it returned to the indigenous people, all that happened is the Spanish “squatters” decided not to be Spanish any more and call themselves Argentine.
This is still one of the three acceptable ways to stop being a colony.
I don't remember the indigenous people being asked about their sovereignty.
In the Falklands there are no indigenous people and no people have ever lost their homes because of the islanders (we can go through the 1832/3 myth if you like), so there is nobody to ask about sovereignty.
You have claimed on this thread that the C24 added the words “where no sovereignty dispute exists” to a proposal concerning only the 11 territories where “no sovereignty dispute exists”, then voted against those words being removed....but the proposal was only ever about the 11 territories?
Why did they, and Argentina campaign so strongly to keep the words then, if it was only about the 11 territories the words were meaningless?
You know full well what the UNGA voted for and it is the opposite of you claim as to the position of the UNGA.....
The Falklands could claim independence tomorrow, the UK could offer the Falklanders votes in the UK General Elections tomorrow...both would remove them from the silly list.
The UK knows the list is a silly waste of time, the islanders are happy with the status quo, the C24 can blow hot air all they like. Its fun to watch their impotence.
Argentina is irrelevant in an discussion over the future of the islands, they are not and never have been Argentine save 10 weeks in 1832 and 10 weeks in 1982....
The sad thing is that the Argentine politicians know full well that the issue is dead in the water. but constantly use it as a distraction to cover up all their failures of governing the country, for people such as Liberato it is hard to accept, coming out with comments like an open sore or turning up the pressure. probably stuff he has read in a newspaper. when in reality the airport at Mont Pleasant has made Argentina obsolete, so there is no pressure or sore that will affect the islanders, if oil is ever produced in the South Atlantic and it is an if, Argentinians could have been part of it with well paid jobs for some of them, but the last 5 years of their stupid immature behaviour has put even that out of reach, the Falklands dont need Argentina for anything, but Argentina needs the goodwill of the islanders to allow them to visit, may be one day they will realise that goodwill is the only way forward, but i doubt it,
Apr 01st, 2023 - 08:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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