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Brazil’s defence industry booming and promoting projects with neighbours
Brazil's defence industry is booming, fuelled by government incentives to modernize the country's armed forces and develop a robust, export-oriented military industrial complex. With the world's sixth largest economy, Brazil was ranked as the eighth largest arms exporter in the 1980s but currently languishes in 30th place, according to industry experts Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesClearly contrary to the rubbish on here this isn't aimed at Argentina, otherwise why would it be “promoting projects with neighbours”?!
Aug 28th, 2012 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0BK
Aug 28th, 2012 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree. Brazil has no pretensions on any of its neighbours’ territory.
Brazil is buying foreign military hardware and cleverly demanding major technology transfer along with it. For the fighter jets, I think they will buy French again, because the Franchutes are usually very generous about the amount of technology they transfer. At the same time, they are tying Chile, Argentina and Colombia in to domestic projects, but as junior partners. All very sensible.
Also, looks like the KC 390 will have some customers, unlike the airbus M-400!
@2 Worth noting that a British company will be providing hardware, embedded software, system design and integration support of the flight control electronics.
Aug 28th, 2012 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#3 interesting that UK is providing the avonics, essentially the guts that make a plane fly these days. I never knew that anyone in SA had a blue water navy. I always thought that SA's had to be tall to join the navy, so that when their ships sink, they can wade back to shore.
Aug 28th, 2012 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@3 Thanks for that point of interest. I am sure they have chosen a good supplier.
Aug 28th, 2012 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@4 Perhaps we should go with the US approach of being so fat that we float back to shore. Although the US Navy only picked a fight with us once, that was in 1891. Half a dozen Valparaiso locals gave the crew of the US Baltimore a good kicking. Result: 20 US casualties (2 fatal).
'In August 2010, Argentine Defence Minister Nilda Garré announced that Argentina will participate on the construction of the C-390.'
Aug 28th, 2012 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I believe she will be selecting the material for the cockpit cushions.......
@5“ Perhaps we should go with the US approach of being so fat that we float back to shore.”
Aug 28th, 2012 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Quite a shocking insult.....I feel so harmed by meaningless drivel !!! You should read the medical study from Cuba and Brazil that aouth americans are piling on the fat at alarming speeds and in the next decade will be the fatest countires in the world el gordo.
”Although the US Navy only picked a fight with us once, that was in 1891. Half a dozen Valparaiso locals gave the crew of the US Baltimore a good kicking. Result: 20 US casualties (2 fatal).”
you have to go back to 1891 huh. lol CHile was the strongest navy in the pacific than. But then again Bejamin Harrison was the president, women could not vote, argentina was a respected leader. You had a mob of sudacas attack sailors on shore leave.....that makes you militarily strong 121 years later??
Captain Poopy,
Aug 28th, 2012 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don’t get all bent out of shape. Of course you are not harmed by meaningless drivel...you would be a masochist if you were.
This thread was about the KC-390 until you started dribbling about SA sailor wading back to shore.
Move along troll.
Sure if you can get me to move along. south america uses government paid trolls such as all the indians here
Aug 28th, 2012 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@9
Aug 28th, 2012 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nope, never been to India.
Troll Fail!
Argentina and Colombia should be jumping on the wagon, I am glad someone is listening its always better late then never.
Aug 28th, 2012 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 7 Captain PuPu
Aug 29th, 2012 - 01:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0No matter what you say nobody read your comments ! Tell it to the Marines!
lol
Captain Pupu!! I like it!! Lmao!
Aug 29th, 2012 - 05:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0I thought the drivel began with this: “I always thought that SA's had to be tall to join the navy, so that when their ships sink, they can wade back to shore.” Don't b a hypocrite captain Poopoo:) lol
I sincerely hope the Uruguayan government spends the money on housing for the poor instead. BTW, the Uruguayan papers have stated that in proportion to population, we are the country with the most troops serving the UN.
Aug 29th, 2012 - 07:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think people are confusing RG in particular and SA in general.... the RG navy rarely ventures far enough offshore to sink.
Aug 29th, 2012 - 07:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Armada de Chile is , in my personal experience, as professional a navy as any on the planet and more so than many. So there.......
@15
Aug 29th, 2012 - 12:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Absolutely! In terms of equipment training, professionalism and organisation the Chileans have a fantastic armed forces, much better in terms of Organisation compared to Brazil.
http://peoplesworld.org/united-states-adds-bases-in-south-america/
Aug 29th, 2012 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Frank / Conor
Aug 29th, 2012 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well said.
#16 , #15
Aug 29th, 2012 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You underestimate the brazilian navy. We participate this year in an exercise in Norfolk with the US navy and we were able to destroy an aircraft carrier with one submarine. And you clearly don't have any knowledge about naval warfare and equipment to claim the chilean navy is better.
Where is Clyde15? Maybe he could explain that for you two guys.
@18
Aug 29th, 2012 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your welcome Mr Condorito, may I ask, are you a Chilean? Just out of curiosity.
@19
Actually sir as regards Naval activities, I know exactly what I'm talking about. I never underestimated any Navy but I was merely pointing out that in terms of equipment and training and organisation Chile is very advanced. Aircraft carrier or not the Brazilian Navy is still undergoing mass modernisation were as the Chilean Navy is mostly up to modern standards. No disrespect intended, its just a fact. Oh and as for sinking an aircraft carrier with one submarine, well thats nothing new, the Swedish Navy recently performed such an exercise with the same result.
Are referring to the COMPTUEX excercises?
Aug 29th, 2012 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@20
Aug 29th, 2012 - 07:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Afirmativo.
@22
Aug 29th, 2012 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh I see well I have to say I certainly admire the Chilean armed forces indeed. As I said, very functional and organised despite its smaller size. I also admire the fact that Argentine's armed forces are slightly larger but far less powerful than Chile's. Not to mention that your Navy actually does what its meant to do rather than having 60% of it lying up in dry dock because you cant afford to run it, unlike the Argentines.
23
Aug 29th, 2012 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Our armed forces have benefited from Chile’s historic militaristic tradition. I don’t know where that comes from (it could go back to the Mapuche) but on the only two occasions that our armed forces were called upon to defend the country (both times against a Peruvian / Bolivian alliance) we were very superior in ability to our neighbours. In the war of the Pacific, the very successful Chilean amphibious assaults (under fire) were some of the first of their kind and were closely observed by the British and Americans.
In modern times, there was a law that ring-fenced 10% of Codelco’s (national copper company) earnings for the armed forces. In other words the government didn’t get to set the defence budget. The result was that the armed forces have always received a healthy chunk of cash, significantly more than our neighbours. This law has only just been scrapped this year.
Whilst happy with our armed forces I would like to see the removal of classist recruitment practices – the military academy where officers are trained is expensive, resulting in an officer class which is from a very different background to the men and women they command. That is a bit too 19th century for my liking.
Have you ever worked with our armed forces?
#24 I am curious as what you mean by the officers having a different background as the NCO's and troops?
Aug 29th, 2012 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Conor, please. Of course the chilean navy is a very professional force, however you cannot say that the brazilian navy is amateurish. i don't think a crew without proper training would be able to sink an American aircraft carrier. Other thing, an AC is something very important in naval warfare, as the brazilians are the ONLY who operates this kind of ship in the south hemisphere and we have been doing this for the last 50 years, now we are even training the chineses. Our submarine fleet is already modernized by Lockheed Martin even able to launch mk 48 torpedos. We produce our own licensed Exocet missiles and we have state-of-art ASW equipment, also all frigates are already modernized , as the only old thing is the hull. Please justify why the chilean navy is much better than ours. I'm open to the discussion.
Aug 29th, 2012 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@24
Aug 29th, 2012 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I thank you for your information, I have been considering joining the Royal Navy at some point in the near future, but my my family has always been a maritime family and my father is a maritime historian and I have been a sailor for years, but since I was little I always used to make lists of other countries Navies and how they could improve them. As a result of all this research and examination of Naval battles of the past I have hoped to use it to my advantage if I joined the Navy as a Warfare officer. But as for Chile itself my family has a friend who is from the Chilean Navy and he is nuts on maritime matters and he was absolutely buzzing when the three Type 23 frigates were sold to your Navy. He also mentioned an officer academy, I believe it might be the one you are talking about. May I ask what is your opinion on the Falklands dispute and where do you think the Chilean population stands?
@26
Again you appear to be overreacting a bit. I never said that your Navy was amateurish but as regards the overall structure of the forces Chile knows what it needs in the future and has its mindset focused. Brazil is in this position as well but as I said in terms of modernisation the Chileans have kept right on top, purchasing the latest F-16's and Harpoon missiles while Brazil keeps the obsolete Exocet missile that even the French are trying to get rid off. But that said it is only a general criticism as the Brazilian Navy is modernising at a very impressive rate. I also look forward to the hopeful purchase of some of the new Type 26 frigates, I hope your government will consider it as they are far and away superior to the French FREMM design.
Okay, we also have the harpoon and the exocet we have in production is the latest, i had no information about the french trying to get rid off them, i will search about it. I was talking about the ships not aircrafts, whatever airplane we choose (f-18, Gripen NG , Rafale ) we will have the edge against the F-16 block 50, if im not mistaken. I'm a very entusiast about british ships, and i hope that the type 26 project will be consolidated when we close the contract. However there still the problem of technological transfer. The French are making a very good work with the submarine and the new naval base. Maybe the best ship will not matter much in this issue.
Aug 29th, 2012 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@28
Aug 29th, 2012 - 10:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I will admit that the upgrades to the Exocet are pretty good but you know as well as I that the Exocet as well as the Harpoon are becoming obsolete. They are subsonic in an age of supersonic anti-missile missiles. When talking about about getting rid of the Exocet I was referring to the New Perseus missile being jointly developed by the UK and France. It will also replace the Harpoon missile. But it is also a anti-land as well as a anti-surface missile. What makes this missile successful is that it is a supersonic unit and can outrun many surface to air missiles.
Interesting read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CVS401_Perseus
Do you know when Brazil will make a final decision on the frigate purchase? I only ask because the avaliable information is limited and I don't suppose that you would have more info as a Portuguese speaker?
Conor,
Aug 29th, 2012 - 11:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The RN and the Chilean Navy have always maintained close links. Right from the early days of the Chilean Navy there has been a British influence. Lord Cochrane, a Scottish admiral was the great hero of our war of independence against Spain. Regarding your question about the FI: there was wide spread support for the British position in the aftermath of the 82 war but that has lessened over the years. Back then Argentina posed a real risk to Chile so most of us were very happy to see their military significantly reduced in 82. Their military has never been rebuilt so there is now a generation of Chileans who have not know the threat of Argentine invasion and would probably be apathetic on the FI question.
Personally I support the FI position. I think the RGS should just let them be.
Cptn Poopy
What I mean is that, because one must pay to go to the military academy, only youngsters from relatively wealth backgrounds can become officers.
That is so different from the USA. The government pays for it but is very selective in whom they choose. It seems they may lose good qualified candidates because of lack of funds to pay for the academy.
Aug 30th, 2012 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0C Poppy,
Aug 30th, 2012 - 12:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0I agree. They surely lose talent this way.
Yes, however the Perseus is a long-term shot, not yet in operation. In my knowledge the only operator of this kind of missile is the PLN, but we have very few and not reliable sources about the real projects of the chineses forces. We have three main missiles projects for the next 10 years , MAN-1 ( Upgraded version of MM40 exocet block 2), AVMT-300 (similar to the tomahawk) and the FOG-MPM (Fiber Optics Guided Multi Purpose Missile). The next generation of missiles will have their projects starting when the 14x hypersonic aircraft is operative, by 2013. But, it would be a great leap if we join the Perseus project and bind our technological expertise.
Aug 30th, 2012 - 12:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0i actually have access to more information as i have a high rank naval engineer uncle, the navy is by far the best managed brazilian force and with more money to invest. Unlike the aircraft purchase what is delaying any decision is only technical and political issues. Summarizing, they are waiting. We received three major proposals by Finnmeccanica(FREMM) , DCNS (FREMM) and Bae (Type 26) , talking about the frigates. However the bid is far more wide, including the project of a second fleet, so cannot be rushed, the choosen country will be a major partner in the brazilian naval security. I think that by 2014 we will reach a conclusion.
@ 30 & 33
Aug 30th, 2012 - 01:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for the info, both of you.
Mr Condorito, I was unaware of the Chilean Navies UK links, very interesting. And thanks for the info on your countries mindset.
Mr DeMouraBR, The Perseus will be a fantastic missile when it does enter service so I'am very pleased that the Type 26 will carry up to 24 of them. Thanks also for the 'extra background info' as regards the frigates as I had been looking around for more information.
Good night to you both.
DeMouraBR @ 33
Aug 30th, 2012 - 03:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Friendly relations between the RN and the Brazilian Navy also go a long way back. Many of the officers commanding Brazil's first warships were from Scotland. The Naval Museum in Rio de Janeiro has full information.
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