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IMF holding constructive talks with Argentina on inflation and GDP data
International Monetary Fund announced it was holding “constructive” talks with Argentina about addressing flawed economic data that led to an unprecedented IMF censure of a member country. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesStep 1: INDEC to stop lying
Nov 09th, 2013 - 06:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Step 2: .....
Wow that easy! And yet it has taken Argentina 2 years and they still can't stop lying.
In other words...
Nov 09th, 2013 - 09:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0We IMF are powerless to press Argentina in any manner so after so many years of reporting less GDP, high inflation and less per capita GDP and economy performance we now look like Idiots denying the obvious.
So we have to get away in some manner to don’t be seen as the clown of this soup opera and diplomatically we can accept that we were wrong and just we got an agreement with Argies because we will lost more then 3bn in income by performing the weak policeman without guns.
Clap, clap, clap.
Can you now update the figures or ARG GDP to 520bn please?
Thank you
@3
Nov 09th, 2013 - 09:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0That's odd, it sounds more to me like an IMF exasperated and trying desperately to prevent another Argentine default, which will have a knock-on effect in the whole of South America.
If you don't stop biting that hand that feeds you, you're going to starve.
@JBritworker
Nov 09th, 2013 - 10:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh! boy IMF on the contrary always was expected for a new default of Argentina to see if the can put their dirty hands again over AgrieLand.
But none want them but some powerless moron that used to profit from external credits and banks bailouts from the 90.
ArgenLatina is a country that can close it borders and live quite happy because has low population, is self sufficient in many aspects, does not require of foreign capital to grow and there is nothing that you cannot make here if you really want to.
The day Argies realised that will become a mayor power able to rule the world together with Brazil in the western hemisphere.
“you're going to starve”
And how is that going to happen?
To make DanyBerger happy, the Argentine GDP has now been updated to 520,000,000,000 Zimbabwe dollars. Both bills are safeguarded in the Argentine national bank.
Nov 09th, 2013 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0(520,000,000,000 Zimbabwe dollars = 5,574 mio US$ or 475 US$ per person).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITuuVjXeHCs
Nov 09th, 2013 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The law-abiding Brits. My cornflakes@!!!!
Lol, makes you laugh how Dirty Danny Beef Burger and that son of a rat The Truth PaTroll try to make light of a lying thieving nation that Argentina is and always as been.-shame on you plonkers.
Nov 09th, 2013 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“lying thieving nation”
Nov 09th, 2013 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_the_British_Empire_in_the_1920's.png
Which most now have independence or are still aligned to the British crown BECAUSE THEY WANT TO and how many of the worlds population belong to The British Commonwealth?? 1/3rd because THEY WANT TO
Nov 09th, 2013 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh so if I ransack your house, sell all the valuable items, and kick you out of it, and 5 years later I give it back to you, that's supposed to absolve me of all wrondoing??
Nov 09th, 2013 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ The Truth PaTroll What's your point old boy I am telling you how it is today what you describe above is what Spanish Pirates did to South America way back.We know it but for some reasons you Argentines have never come to terms you live in a land of immigrants because that's what you are EUROPEAN IMMIGRANTS.
Nov 09th, 2013 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh for Christ’s sake Lagarde, you stupid twit,
Nov 09th, 2013 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just give Argentina a couple of trillion quid and stop embarrassing your self,
You lot have been try every trick in the book to give CFK money,
Why, god only knows, but your that bloody desperate just give it em,
And sod off.
Ouch lol.
.
@8
Nov 09th, 2013 - 08:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0100 years ago?
But you really should stop looking at the British Empire as if it was the same as the Spanish Empire of which you are the descendant and beneficiary.
It's a question of emphasis, of course, but the essential distinction is that the Spanish Empire was primarily about plunder, whereas the British Empire was primarily about trade. This difference in emphasis has had numerous consequences which we still see today. The British, for example, and for the most part, tended to work with and through the local elites, whereas the Spanish preferred to exterminate them. This is why much of the former British Empire is now in the hands of its indigenous population, including, for example the world's largest democracy, whereas the near totality of the former Spanish Empire is nowadays in the hands of conquistadors and implanted colonists. This is why it was the Spanish, rather than the British, who made the remarkable discovery that it's possible to steal so much you impoverish yourself. This is why the greatest investment in Argentina was made by Brits. And this is why Latin America has been bedevilled throughout its history by thieving oligarchies supported by the Catholic Church and the military, or fascist ideologies imported from Europe, and kept alive long after Europe had learned better.
Bu tit's nice to see some progress made in sorting that lot out. And we'll know that Argentina has made it when the national vendetta against a tiny population hundreds of miles away gets dropped.
Just back from Twickers (Twickenham). For all those Pumas fans out there the score REALLY WAS 31-12 to England. No Argentine statistics office here. England really ran away with the game in the first half but strangely faded in the second. Argentina were very dis-organised and never really in the game. Granted Argentina were without key players including Juan Martin Hernandez, but still, a pretty poor show.
Nov 09th, 2013 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nevertheless England will have to raise their game to beat the All Blacks next Sunday. .
@13. HN +1 from me!
Nov 09th, 2013 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@14: I watched the match. Good game: A lot of drama and true grit from both teams - Argentina and England played very well and the boys did themselves credit. The sad this is there are rarely draws in this game! But both teams were great examples of sportsmanship and athleticism! Well done to both.
@2: Yes, all true, yet the simple truth is the IMF are only asking for the Argentine authorities to publish the truth based on actual data rather than distortions - that is a reasonable request, so why not comply. Hiding from the truth is foolish and dishonest; better to face the truth and work to improve matters
The IMF is going to drag this along until CFK is out of office. Then they'll say, “We believe in fresh starts, we will work with the new administration”
Nov 10th, 2013 - 01:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0In essence, dragging it along even further. But, don't worry, although the IMF will have accomplished nothing, they will all continue to receive healthy paychecks, for nothing.
@6, 8, 10. I'd love to debate that with you. assuming it was intelligible and was posted by someone intelligent and educated.
Nov 10th, 2013 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@3 The problem is Lagarde. There are various things she doesn't understand. Honesty, integrity, truth and similar things. But then she's French and female. Even French males don't understand honesty, integrity and truth. Imagine how little chance a female has!
Comment removed by the editor.
Nov 11th, 2013 - 04:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0@11, 13, etc...
Nov 11th, 2013 - 04:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, those wafts redolent of self-determination re-emerge in your replies. That “you just let the Empire go”, that it was “free” and “peaceful”.
I have done some digging about how deeply the British, and Europeans in general, feel about this “self-determination” thing. It turns out, you don't believe in it at all!!
And no, I will spare you all the “Chagos” angle.
I will hit you all from a completely unexpected side. I did some digging, this is what I found.
How about self-determination for a fellow EURO nation?
What did the other Europeans think when this question arose once? TO DENY IT!!!!!
- - - - -
On German reunification:
“...Thatcher also clarified that she wanted the Soviet leader to do what he could to stop it, telling Gorbachev 'We do not want a united Germany.' Although she gradually softened her opposition, as late as March 1990 Thatcher summoned historians and diplomats to a seminar at Chequers to ask ”How dangerous are the Germans?...“
”...A representative of French President François Mitterrand reportedly told an aide to Gorbachev, 'France by no means wants German reunification.' On 20 January 1990, Mitterrand told Thatcher that a unified Germany could 'make more ground than even Hitler had'. He predicted that 'bad' Germans would reemerge, and would likely dominate Hungary, Poland, and Czechoslovakia, leaving ”only Romania and Bulgaria for the rest of us'
(and I thought you guys didn't believe in dominating other countries!!)
“Other European leaders' opinion of reunification was ”icy“. Italy's Giulio Andreotti warned against a revival of 'pan-Germanism' ...” ...“The Netherlands' Ruud Lubbers questioned the German right to self-determination.”
Well, I rest my case.
Liars.
Nostils
Nov 11th, 2013 - 06:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0And yet it is now 2013.
Is Germany United and sovereign?
Hmmm wasn't 1990 only 8 short years since Argentina actually invaded the sovereign territory of another nation and denied the inhabitants the right to self determination?
Amazing how the world changes and evolves.
After 31 years Argentina still denies self determination to the Islanders.
And yet the Vertrag über die abschließende Regelung in bezug auf Deutschland was signed on 12 September 1990. Only 10 months after the Wall came down. Unification and sovereignty resorted.
So Argentina hasn't changed or learnt anything in 31 years.
It took France, Britain, America and Russia just 10 months to not only change, but also to sign an actual treaty.
If we are liars then you are from a nation of hypocrites.
YOU CANT ARGUE!
How cute, so because you could not STOP it, you just pretend you were for it all along. hahahaha.
Nov 11th, 2013 - 06:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina does not have to change because it doesn't want to be part of your failed community of nations. I do share the hope that we will drop the issue of the Falklands for good one day and leave those people be.
Everything else however, is a big fat no. Argentina will never again cooperate.
Blah blah blah.
Nov 11th, 2013 - 09:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0You really don't say much do you. For all that intelligence trapped in your head you can't even argue a point. You feel you know a topic from the shallowest perusal on the Internet.
So let's show everyone how pathetic you are YET AGAIN.
If any of the four powers that occupied Germany had wanted to, they could have stopped reunification. Your woefully inadequate life experience have confused reservations with denial. You look around the world now and have no concept whatsoever about the Cold War. There was no guarantee Germany would reunite. Two countries that had existed for nearly four decades themselves didn't just unite without thinking about it. Indeed the DDR was trying to save itself by reforming.
What changed?
The movement of people. Thousands upon thousands of Germans were moving and voting with their feet. It wasn't even reunification. The BRD took over the DDR.
Looking from 2013 doesn't give you perspective.
As for the rest of your banal unceasing whining, you are just plain wrong.
There is no failed community of nations. What a stupid thing to say. Argentina is not on another planet and does not exist in a vacuum. The fact that a snotty nosed kid from Mendoza can't even give up the Internet means that Argentina is not snubbing the world. It is a fully integrated nation in the world community.
Oh it might feel that you are standing alone and blazing a new path.
But you aren't.
There is nothing being done in Argentina that hasn't been tried elsewhere. Argentina has not invented some new economic system or social movement. Its autarky-like tendencies have not insulated itself from anything. The capital and industry it scares away just goes elsewhere.
It still exports goods and imports goods. It still partakes in international fora.
It is just poorer and less powerful in absolute terms than it once was.
If a teenage boy in Mendoza can't give up the Internet, how could an entire country give up everything else!
Now AgoloLatino become and expert on Germany affairs...
Nov 11th, 2013 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0What can we do????
The funny thing of all this is that the Argentine Government, claiming that wanted to “get rid of the IMF tyranny” and to “break chains of the slavery” canceled the IMF debt of the country and took new debt with Venezuela at an interest rate that is of more than double the cost of IMF credits. Very good business !!!
Nov 11th, 2013 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In addition, and in order to take advantage of inflation, collect more money through the “inflation tax”, pay less interest of the international bonds and debt changed the method of calculating inflation and retained most of the legislation of the Convertibility Law.
Then, in a sample of “consistency” Peronist, additional money was taken from IMF twice.
And now, desperate for scarcity of dollars, again indebted the country with credits of World Bank and want to change the calculation of inflation (and of the rest of the economic data) just in case they need IMF assistance.
Don’t worry, it is the typical Peronist attitude, “if you are not going to change the reality you can change the figures of reality to lie and cheat.
DanyBerger
Nov 11th, 2013 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unlike you and many of your friends on here I have never made a secret of where I now live and where I have lived. And even where I plan to live.
I've lived in Germany. Studied German not only at high school but also university as well as done a major in European Studies.
This is only surprising to you. But then considering how you see the world I'm guessing you are continually surprised by what others consider normal and mundane.
I see you couldn't being yourself to contradict or correct Nostrils. Of that no one is surprised.
Anglotino....don't mention this to Dany...he won't understand how someone can live outside “the Argentine paradise”.
Nov 11th, 2013 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He also believes that Germnay is in decadence..the World is falling !!!.
@pgerman& facker AngoloLatino
Nov 11th, 2013 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stupids cretins I'm a German born and my father is German like my mother & co. and you always talk BS.
“If any of the four powers that occupied Germany had wanted to, they could have stopped reunification”
really and why that didn't happen?
Come on AngoloLatino, tell me why the powers that occupied Germany as you say were so generous with us?
Why Ukistan after a century and not Fox have been opposed to Germany and then so generous allow as the re unification?
pgerman Germany is in decadence for may factors like the whole Europe and US the problem with you is that you cannot see that until would be to late and the Chinese kick your @rse to wake up of the stupid dream your a living in....
Wait and see who the world is gonna change in 10 years.
BTW you never answer in which country you are living Pgerman may be ashame of that?
People don't see their house crumbling until the walls begin to crack. But that is not the day the decline of your house begin. The decline began MUCH earlier, you just failed to noticed it or made a blind eye to the subtler warning signs.
Nov 11th, 2013 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's what North Americans and Europeans, including all the poor souls in this boat called Mercopress, are doing.
I have accepted that Argentina's glory days are past, but at least we had them. No other country in Latin America has even come REMOTELY CLOSE to achieving the status Argentina had for almost one hundred years from 1860 to about 1950.
And money isn't everything, we have other things you people no longer have, like functioning families, a value for the little things, and the ability to go somewhere without fearing being shot like lamb in a a mass shooting, or killed by religious extremists while waiting for the metro.
@The Truth PaTroll
Nov 11th, 2013 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are wrong because they have Kebabs, Astronomical debts, MacShittyDonals, sharia law, British got talent , CaMoron and the most valuable thing the “Royal Nadie” that cannot fight even with 2 Talibans drunk without weapons.
Don be jealous please will you : )
Still kick the living daylights out of you surrender monkeys with your roll over navy and no can fly airforce.
Nov 11th, 2013 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah? Say what you wil of the “navy”, but that no fly airforce killed hundreds of you and sank more of your crappy, useless ships in a few weeks (must be crappy to be sunk by planes that can't fly), than at any time since you were fighting your current economic masters, the Germans.
Nov 11th, 2013 - 04:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 028 The Truth PaTroll
Nov 11th, 2013 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina’s glory days were built on the back of British investments, which amounted to Billions of dollars in today’s money value.
The British built most of Argentinas rail network, including the grand city termini of Constitución and Retiro stations. In finance the British opened the first modern bank in Argentina in 1822. The British virtually created Argentinas banking and insurance system. The British built Argentinas, tram system, the meat packing factories, shoe factories, warehouses, and port facilities. They built the fertiliser plants and introduced cold storage warehouses and ships. The bulk of Argentina’s exports used British built ships. The telegram system and early telephone system were British built. The first underground trains was built by the Anglo-Argentine Tramways Company
The British introduced football, cricket, polo, tennis and rugby to Argentina. They established Argentina’s oldest and most prestigious sports clubs such as the Hurlingham Club, the Old Georgian Club, and the Buenos Aires lawn tennis club. They started many Argentine football clubs like Newell's Old Boys and Rosario Athletic. The famous gentlemans club the (British)”Jockey Club “ once housed South America’s largest private art collection and most important library, until Peron’s thugs burnt it down. Some of the best schools in Argentina were established by the British, such as St Georges College, Balmoral College and Belgrano Day School. Harrods opened their only overseas store in Buenos Aires in 1912, it’s now closed.
And then what happened? Benito Mussolini’s great admirer General Peron came to power with his poisonous mixture of socialism and nationalism and destroyed everything. Where are your railways now? Where is your wealth and prestige now?
The countries which are doing well are those which are open to the world. Paranoid nationalism and autarky is a dead end.
@31
Nov 11th, 2013 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Those crappy useless ships carried a force ten thousand miles, landed them on an hostile island, then stayed and fought to supply and protect them.
Why don't you remind us what your navy did?
Oh yeah, they ran away!
@32
Nov 11th, 2013 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It was business, none of that you did out of charity. You made money, and plenty of it, with those investments. You were supplied with cheap, good food for over half a century, it helped you get through two wars. All the other things “you brought” were brought by British workers and immigrants, it wasn't some sort of gift. Just like all other groups that came and come to Argentina, the tens of thousands of English immigrants brought their costumes to a new land.
I never denied any of what you said, what I deny (not deny, it's just a fact anyway, I need to deny that as much as I have to deny the sky is not blue), is the “narrative” you maladroit British posters attempt to foist, that Britain did all of that “out of the goodness of their heart”.
It wa BUSINESS. You invested, you made money. Immigrants came, they brought cultural artifacts with them. Cut and dry as that.
Daniel
Nov 11th, 2013 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for your insults. it's the least I can expect from a peronist. Nothing less....nothing more.
In fact, caming from a peronist insults are blessings
So, you are a German living in Argentina and in love of CFK, in love of the peronism and in love of the “relato”...ha ha ha....well even in Germany there are people that are homeless....
I wrote several times the place where I'm living now, it's not a mistery, I ever wrote it to you...but I'm not the issue, neither you. Knowing the country wehre I'm living now doesn't add a thing to this “friendly” discussion..
I travelled two time to China Mainland and it's an amazing colture, a prosperous country with an incredible future. What's your point?
Are you going to compare a decadent Argentina governed by a corrupt populist and conservative gang to China?
In addition, it seems that Germany (the decadent GermanY....,) has adapted very well to the new winds....
Don't worry, it doesn't matter what the future will bring...an Argentina governed by a Peronist president will always be a decadent country.
34 The Truth PaTrol
Nov 11th, 2013 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course its business, a two way process. Britain got dividends and profit shares, Argentina got thousands of miles of railways, and more. The question is, since Peron nationalised the railways (amongst other industries ) where are they now?
The countries which are doing well are those which are open to the world. Paranoid nationalism and autarky is a dead end....well said.
Nov 11th, 2013 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oooh I seem to have upset DanyBerger @27, so my day has started with a smile.
Nov 11th, 2013 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I accept that you are German Dany….. and so what! You can't even spell my name right, you believe everything INDEC publishes and you think that growing a potato makes a country industrialised.
So thanks for the name calling. It is always great to see the real you.
“If any of the four powers that occupied Germany had wanted to, they could have stopped reunification”
really and why that didn't happen?
Umm HELLO! Prior to 1990, how unified was Germany? From 1945 until 1990, the four powers prevented reunification. So yes they did prevent it for 45 years.
As for continual racism regarding immigration to the UK from muslim countries, guess what my favourite and cheapest eat was when I was living in Berlin?
Ein Döner Kebab ohne Zwiebeln und mit Knoblauchsoße!
How very German! I ate more in one week in Berlin than I did in the 2 1/2 years I lived in London.
(Oh, translation of the above: Doner kebab without onion and with garlic sauce)
As for your deluded and totally uneducated theory on the “Chinese kick your @rse to wake up of the stupid dream your a living in….” and “Wait and see who the world is gonna change in 10 years.”
Hahahahaha yeah sure! The Chinese working aged population has already started shrinking. And it happened EARLIER than predicted by anyone including the government. China has Japan's demographics from 1990 with the living standard and income levels of Japan in 1970.
In 10 years time, China will be facing an actual population decline together with a massive increase in its elderly and unproductive citizens. The future isn't Chinese.
@36
Nov 12th, 2013 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Where are the railways? I still see them all the time, and in use, all over town.
America (the continent) is NOT Europe. Europe is barely the size of the USA, Brazil, or Canada. Western Europe the size of Argentina. But much more populous and with a much higher density of cities.
That's what makes trains today financially viable.
Why do you think not ONE country in the new world has a train system like Europe? Not even Canada, or the USA?
It's just inconvinient to travel vast distances between two cities, with nothing in between but farms, on a train.
When commercial aviation hit in the 1950s, that was the knell of the golden age of railways, in the USA, in Canada, and in Argentina, the three countries where trains where such a major factor in developing the frontier and settlement.
No Peron in the USA, and how is their passenger train service? It's a shell of it's former self.
39 The Truth PaTroll
Nov 12th, 2013 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Running a suburban/commuter network in a city of 10 million should be profitable or at least efficient enough to function with small tax payer subsidies. The problem isn’t Argentina’s geographical size, but maladministration, corruption, lack of pride and politicisation; all the things which have bedevilled Argentina for decades.
There was an interesting article from the Economist recently on this very same thing.
http://www.economist.com/news/americas/21587217-government-decides-it-time-shake-things-up-not-driving-sleeping
And some comments.
http://www.economist.com/news/americas/21587217-government-decides-it-time-shake-things-up-not-driving-sleeping
New Yorks railways seem to work fine. try travelling on the Long Island Rail Road system. No problems there.
Toby is confusing passenger trains to freight trains. He probably doesn't know the difference.
Nov 12th, 2013 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Toby, The freight train networks in the USA are immense, profitable and growing and gasp PRIVATELY OWNED. Just like Arg had BEFORE Peron let it rot. Stupid Monkeys had a good thing going but now have to use old trucks on bad roads to get the grains to market.
Plus they have their untrained Army trying to build new tracks. That seems like a good idea. bahahaha
BTW Toby, Did you steal my explanation regarding Passenger train service when you asked my why the USA doesn't have bullet trains? Yeah same reason you gave above.
Although there is a plan to build an underground Maglev train from NYC to DC. Very very cool. Psst and guess what our plans very often come to fruition. We don't just put out PR lies like the Ks.
@yankeeBobo
Nov 13th, 2013 - 05:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Toby, The freight train networks in the USA are immense, profitable and growing and gasp PRIVATELY OWNED”...
Lying again Mr. Yankee Bobo?
Washington post (By the way Washington is from where Yankee Bobo claim to be from)
“Amtrak loses a ton of money each year”
“Amtrak is coming under heavy scrutiny these days. The passenger rail service needed $1.4 billion in subsidies from Congress in 2012, and many Republicans are skeptical that the government should be losing so much money on train travel.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/03/01/amtrak-loses-a-ton-of-money-each-year-it-doesnt-have-to/
Stupid Dany, maybe you need a reading lesson, this is what I said:
Nov 13th, 2013 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The freight train networks in the USA are immense, profitable and growing and gasp PRIVATELY OWNED.
freight train networks is the key phrase in this sentence
Do you get dumber with every post?
In my opinion Amtrak needs to be privatized, its a waste of money and a political boondoggle. Virgin has made an offer I hope the next Administration takes them up on it.
Danyboywimpyburger's native American name is “Walking eagle”
Nov 13th, 2013 - 12:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@yankeeboy
Nov 14th, 2013 - 03:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Can you try now to write that in English again, unfortunately I have never learnt Spanglish.
Key word here Spanglish...
Dany, poor stupid Dany.
Nov 14th, 2013 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I feel sorry for you.
How do you work when you are so obviously retarded?
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