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A suggestion on how to address Brexit has arrived from Switzerland

Friday, September 9th 2016 - 10:04 UTC
Full article 19 comments

A former Swiss president has said the UK should work with her country to find a way to balance freedom of movement with single market access. Micheline Calmy-Rey said the two countries shared a common purpose out - or planning to be out - of the European Union. But both still want a good trade relationship with the union. Read full article

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  • Max

    advices from a trumped up country Swiss

    how can UK work on with you !

    UK's %55 GDP is from foreigners' investments !!

    Sep 09th, 2016 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • darragh

    @1 Sad Max

    The 'trumped up' country of Switzerland has been independent since 1648 rather longer than the colonialist enclave of Argentina.

    According to the world bank, as of 2014, UK Foreign Direct Investment is 1.52% of GDP

    www.theglobaleconomy.com

    If you are going to make up things at least try to make them plausible.

    Sep 09th, 2016 - 01:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    Its just my opinion, but we don't need to be like Switzerland , Sweden , Norway , Iceland , or Saturn 12,

    the majority voted for the British way,
    im sure we are quite capable of doing things by ourselves,
    without possible moles from the EU trying to tie strings.

    Sep 09th, 2016 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    “A suggestion on how to address Brexit has arrived from Switzerland....With little movement from the EU, the Swiss parliament has now suggested...that a “safe-guard” clause could be used to give people living in Switzerland priority in the jobs market over people coming to the country from the EU.”

    And that's the idea? Waste of time then.

    OUT is OUT, no hangers on from tin pot countries and no uneducated migrants taking basic jobs from the Brits.

    Sep 10th, 2016 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    ““The question is what political price Great Britain and Switzerland are willing to pay to limit migration. Do they have to pay with access to the big market - totally, partially or not at all?”

    The question should be “If they DON'T limit immigration what price will they pay ?” Immigration should be controlled and allow in only those who have something to offer, provided their skills are needed ; if the immigrants' only objective is to choose a rich country to lie on their arses and collect social welfare, to hell with them

    Sep 10th, 2016 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 5 Jack Bauer
    “The question should be “If they DON'T limit immigration what price will they pay ?” ”

    That is why the more sensible of us voted LEAVE.

    The ditherers and those who were frightened to grasp the last chance of ridding the country of the EU are now panicking to the point they want to abandon all sensible negotiating tactics just to get a deal at any price.

    Tit's May needs to start dressing properly and behaving like a PM who has given her word to the entire country that Brexit means out and moving forward with the economy: getting rid of the Canuck in the BofE plus the 'blocker to Brexit Hammond' would help.

    Sep 11th, 2016 - 10:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @ChrisR, Jack Bauer
    The point is Switzerland is offering to be Britain's ally in our negotiations with the EU, because they have some of the same issues and aims. The more countries we have on our side the better.

    Switzerland is hardly a tin pot country, and with their small population and wealth are suffering more from immigration than the UK.

    The more voices objecting to EU policy, the more pressure on the EU to change it.

    Sep 11th, 2016 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @7 DT
    When I changed the question that 'should be asked', by no means was I insinuating that Switzerland was a tin-pot country, nor that their support isn't welcome - it is . However , the question as I put it, cannot be ignored. And I agree, the more countries against this liberal approach, the better. I am not against immigration, provided controlled. You cannot just open the flood gates and let all the scum in ; the high price for this populist, irresponsible policy, such as France's and Belgium's in the past, and now Ms Merkel's, will be paid alike by liberals and conservatives , only difference being that the liberals will never admit they screwed up.

    Sep 12th, 2016 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @8 Jack Bauer
    Guess I should have split up my comment; it was ChrisR who called Switzerland a tin-pot country and said we didn't need 'hangers on'.

    And I don't agree with you anyway. Immigrants to Britain from within the EU are not 'scum', the only major problem with them is the sheer number of people.

    And if you are referring to Muslim immigration, Brexit is not likely to reduce it and may make it worse. The refugees and other migrants that were welcomed to Germany have not been allowed into Britain.

    Besides which, Angela Merkel's party is centre-right, not liberal, and high immigration has never been a populist policy - it's generally done for economic reasons, which may have been part of the motive for Merkel.

    I'm a liberal and don't support unlimited immigration, but I would agree to free movement in order to keep the other benefits of the EU.

    Sep 12th, 2016 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @9 DT
    You have every right to disagree. But to be clear, what I am referring to as 'scum' are most of the immigrants coming from north Africa and the Middle East. Most have no intention of adapting to a new way-of-life....what they are after is a cushy handout, and the continuation / dissemination of their backward culture. Immigrants from most other European countries - provided they aren't recent arrivals from Africa & the ME - and which have come from somewhat more 'civilized' societies than those I mentioned, and whose values are similar, are not a problem. Just to be clear.

    I am referring to Muslim immigration, and while Brexit will unlikely reduce it in other European countries, it definitelty will in Britain. One of the reasons Brexit came about. As to Merkel's recent change of heart - letting dozens of thousands in, without vetting them, - will be something the Germans will have to juggle with referring to 'economic reasons'...these 'economic reasons' could well have been attended without this uncontrolled, indiscriminate flow of immigrants. Kind of strange, knowing the Germans.

    Sep 13th, 2016 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 9 DemonTree

    What I posted in @ 4 was:

    “OUT is OUT, no hangers on from tin pot countries and no uneducated migrants taking basic jobs from the Brits.”

    No reference to any named country, certainly not Switzerland, they don't tolerate such people.

    Sep 14th, 2016 - 12:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @10 Jack Bauer
    I don't agree most of the immigrants coming from the ME are scum either. Many are fleeing from war, some are fleeing extreme poverty; most have risked their lives to reach Europe. I doubt many of them even stopped to think about whether they were prepared to adapt to a new culture and way of life.

    However, I do think that they *will* find it hard to adapt, and will unfortunately bring a lot of their problems and cultural baggage with them. Plus they will have to learn a new language before they can get any decent jobs, and having large numbers of unemployed people around is destructive to the community.

    As for the economic reasons, the article I read claimed that Merkel wanted Syrian refugees because many were well educated and prosperous before the war, unlike the usual kind of economic migrants. How many of the migrants who reached Germany were actually from Syria is a different question though.

    And how do you think Brexit will reduce Muslim immigration to Britain? Most of it comes from Commonwealth countries and will not obviously be affected.

    @11 ChrisR
    Since the article was about Switzerland wanting to join with the UK in negotiations, I naturally assumed you were talking about that country.

    So do you think it would be useful for the UK and Switzerland to try and negotiate free movement together?

    Sep 14th, 2016 - 11:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 12 DemonTree
    “So do you think it would be useful for the UK and Switzerland to try and negotiate free movement together?”

    They have not done too well so far, have they?

    I don't agree with being in the single market if the price is taken the riff-raff from Turkey and other countries.

    Perhaps there are some in the government who are panicking about having to work out how to do things, it seems very much that way to me, starting with 'Tits' herself.

    So no, I cannot see any advantage to the UK in joint talks.

    Sep 15th, 2016 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @12 DT
    Despite some similar views on immigration', seems we'll have to disagree on the rest. I still think that immigration, to be successful and to produce the desired effects, has to be controlled, allowing in people who can show they are capable of being productive and that they are truly willing to adapt to their 'new' way-of-life, accepting the Laws of their new home, unconditionally. If Your example of “Syrian refugees because many were well educated and prosperous before the war”, is valid, but how many, in the hordes trying to emmigrate, fit that description ?
    Outside of that, no way.
    Regarding the reduction of Muslim emmigration to the UK, the simple fact that the UK is no longer subject to the EU's liberal, demagogic policies, should have a significant impact. And if they keep on coming from other, less developed Commonwealth countries, maybe it's time they reviewed that policy as well. Don't say they will, but the alternative to ignoring it might not prove too nice.

    Sep 15th, 2016 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @13 ChrisR
    “They have not done too well so far, have they?”

    Nope. And that's not good news for us, is it?

    “I don't agree with being in the single market if the price is taken the riff-raff from Turkey and other countries.”

    If we had stayed in the EU we would have been able to veto Turkey joining. Except our government wasn't doing that, oh no, they were encouraging Turkey's application. Guess whose government pushed for the inclusion of the Eastern Block countries into the EU? It's really impressive how many of the things people object to about the EU were supported by our various governments.

    Now we are leaving the EU, but we'll still be ruled by the same old people, and they will have a freer hand to do what they like.

    @14 Jack Bauer
    I do agree that immigration needs to be controlled, generally. It's the assumption that immigrants are just interested in welfare and sitting on their arses that I object to. Most are looking for opportunities, work and safety, things that are often in short supply in their own countries.

    The truth is, we know letting in hordes of migrants would be bad for us, and for our countries. But it's easier to tell ourselves that the migrants are scum, they are just looking for a handout, and wouldn't try to adapt anyway, than to admit we are essentially just being selfish.

    Regarding the EU, the UK had an opt out from Schengen, so our border security (or lack of it) was already under our own control. The EU only required us to allow free movement for citizens of other member states, none of which are Muslim.

    As for changing policy on Commonwealth nations, they could have done this at any time, had they chosen to. If they do change anything, it will be because they have realised how angry people are, not because we have left the EU.

    Sep 15th, 2016 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @15 DT
    So we are basically on the same page...just a few more comments, on your :

    “Most are looking for opportunities, work and safety, things that are often in short supply in their own countries”.
    “But it's easier to tell ourselves that the migrants are scum, they are just looking for a handout, and wouldn't try to adapt anyway, than to admit we are essentially just being selfish.”

    While that might have some truth in it, I suppose each situation needs to be analysed differently. The problem is that liberal governments are just 'too' willing to allow the hordes in, without the slightest notion of how to deal with them....far less the capacity to do so. Just take a look at the 1,500 (?) homeless migrants sprawling in the central streets of Paris...is that fair for the people who live there, to have their streets turned into ragtag camps and lavatories ? not to mention the crime...The governments are more interested in upholding their liberal stance so that people can say how good they are, than concerned with the people who already live there, and pay heavy taxes....Seems to be a slight inversion of values. Call that selfish if you will, but why should any of them have to sacrifice their well-being without even being consulted first ? Do the Governments' actions represent what the majority of the people want ? I don't think so.

    Sep 16th, 2016 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 15 DT
    “Now we are leaving the EU, but we'll still be ruled by the same old people, and they will have a freer hand to do what they like.”

    How can that be if the UK gets out of the strait jacket that is the Brussels machinery?

    We won't have EU law unless we want it and it will be under UK control. I have already said my piece about the single market and it's trappings or are you saying that the UK Government will continue to adopt the EU directives into UK law because if that happens the Conservatives will go the way of Labour under Corbyn?

    Sep 16th, 2016 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @16 Jack Bauer
    “Do the Governments' actions represent what the majority of the people want?”

    Hmmm, I think in this case they are not so far off. The various European countries had and have very different attitudes to the refugee problem, from Germany and Sweden who were welcoming them, to Hungary, Macedonia, and Croatia who fenced off their borders to keep them out.

    From what I have seen, most Germans were broadly supportive of their government's policy, at least until the numbers got so high and the sexual assaults in Cologne happened. Now that they have changed their minds, the EU has managed to do a deal with Turkey to return migrants and the numbers have slowed to a trickle.

    Of course even in one country people disagree, so some will be unhappy with the decision, but if the government goes too far from what the majority want it presumably won't be reelected.

    As to it being selfish, it's natural to put yourself, your family, and your community first. But most of us also want to help those in need, and consider it at least a little selfish not to. Still I agree, people should choose to help others (or not) rather than be forced to.

    @17 ChrisR
    Because we will still have the same government in the UK, and they have done far more to mess up the country than the EU has.

    They haven't managed to fix the economy after 6 years, they haven't achieved most of the things they said they would, and they held a referendum on EU membership without having any plan for what to do if we chose to leave.

    And now I am supposed to trust them to complete the most important negotiations of my lifetime?

    Sep 16th, 2016 - 11:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 18 DT
    “And now I am supposed to trust them to complete the most important negotiations of my lifetime?”

    Please yourself, you have no other option as far as I can see but don't forget they are OUR fuck-ups, not unelected EU Mandarins!

    They CAN be voted out of office at the next election, try doing that with the EU.

    I see 'Tits' May now claims Article 50 will be signed in February, she didn't give the year though.

    Sep 17th, 2016 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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