Rousseff and Lula furious with Netflix series "The Mechanism" on corruption

:o))

REF: “The Mechanism”:

http://www.chargeonline.com.br/php/DODIA//clayton.jpg

Apr 02nd, 2018 - 01:27 pm - Link - +1

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Jack Bauer

@:o))
Boa !!! as they say here, “if the hat fits, use it”...

Apr 02nd, 2018 - 01:50 pm - Link - 0

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:o))

:o))))
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KYPnWCrCP1k/TqvG_EI5Y5I/AAAAAAAAACQ/s7Um1D-oT-g/s1600/Charge_Corrup%25C3%2583%25C2%25A7%25C3%2583%25C2%25A3o.jpg

Apr 02nd, 2018 - 01:58 pm - Link - 0

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DemonTree

Have either of you watched it? We were thinking of getting Netflix again, if we do I'll have a look.

Apr 02nd, 2018 - 05:19 pm - Link - 0

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Jack Bauer

@DT
Not yet, but sounds interesting ; the PT’s going crazy, alleging it doesn't reflect the truth; funny that should worry them - in 2010, a film portraying the 'great' Lula was released, designed to give Dilma a boost ; besides negative reviews, it frustrated the PT becos it was a big failure...on the 3rd day it no longer filled cinemas, and after 2 weeks showings stopped...only 473,000 people went to see it, while a Brazilian comedy, in the same period attracted 6 million

Cont. of previous post:
Not exactly ‘random’, people I saw frequently, with whom I had a good rapport, and a good idea as to their mindset. I wouldn’t discuss politics with a stranger. Was only relatively successful, but today, many regret not having listened, having finally realized that despite PT rhetoric, their lives ‘n those of their friends have not improved (unless by their own effort).

Lula’s initial popularity had nothing to do with his govt program, and I say this because in 2002, he didn’t have one…so much so, when he was (surprisingly) elected, this became painfully obvious, forcing the PT to adopt FHC’s policies, despite having strongly criticized them in the campaign.

One thing is the economy growing in a solid, sustainable fashion, another is when it grows 'only apparently', based on uncontrolled credit, benefits ‘n tax breaks…there comes a day when the bill has to be paid. The PT wasn’t concerned with saving for a rainy day, preferring to believe the bonanza would never end, and that alone, would keep the wheel moving.

The reason I hate Lula is much the same why I don’t like 90% of politicians : corruption ; but he is undoubtedly, the only one with who says one thing today, another tomorrow. His aggressive, uncouth manner, his constant rhetoric of “us against them”, his lack of humility, besides his declared support of dictators (Chavez, Maduro, Castros), and the “foro de São Paulo”, make him especially intolerable. In Oct we vote for Pres ‘n Congress.

Apr 02nd, 2018 - 06:39 pm - Link - 0

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Enrique Massot

Hey! Here comes a reinvigorated Jack!

A much more balanced and informed story on the topic can be found in the NYT.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/02/world/americas/brazil-netflix-lula-corruption.html

Apr 02nd, 2018 - 08:20 pm - Link - -1

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DemonTree

@JB
“people I saw frequently, with whom I had a good rapport, and a good idea as to their mindset”

Fair enough. Did any of them try to persuade you to support Lula?

Sounds like Lula didn't expect to win either If he was forced to adopt FHC's policies. What did he say he'd do in his campaigning? There must have been something. Plus, it was his third try at the presidency AFAIR, so what was different compared to the first two?

“[Lula] is undoubtedly, the only one with who says one thing today, another tomorrow”

Now that can't be true, politicians all around the world are experts in doing that. I'm guessing the other reasons you gave have more to do with your antipathy towards him - do you think he'd include you in his 'them'? Anyway, all the top people seem quite objectionable, perhaps I should have asked you why you don't hate them all instead.

@EM
It's funny, Jack's description of the economy under Lula reminds me of your complaints about Macri; uncontrolled borrowing, tax breaks (for the agribusiness in Macri's case), growth that doesn't have a real foundation... and the bill that has to paid some day.

Your article says Netfix are planning a series about Nisman's death. If that gets made the fuss about 'O Mecanismo' will seem like nothing in comparison. I wonder who they'll put the blame on?

Apr 02nd, 2018 - 11:16 pm - Link - 0

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:o))

Irrespective to the good wishes of all; SOMETIMES, the dreams DO come TRUE:
http://politica.estadao.com.br/blogs/fausto-macedo/wp-content/uploads/sites/41/2018/01/WhatsApp-Image-2018-01-24-at-17.58.44.jpeg
- BUT IT's JUST A WISHFUL THINKING! :o))))

Apr 03rd, 2018 - 10:45 am - Link - +1

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DemonTree

Lol. I liked the first one too, it looks like Lula's about to be crushed in the gears, which is probably exactly how he's feeling right now.

Apr 03rd, 2018 - 12:23 pm - Link - 0

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:o))

I don't understand why everybody criticizes the politicians; just because they ARE corrupt!
REF:
http://www.filosofia.seed.pr.gov.br/modules/galeria/uploads/3/dinheiro_publico.jpeg

Apr 03rd, 2018 - 01:01 pm - Link - +1

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Jack Bauer

@EM
Reekie, your remarks are always ‘reinvigorating’: your interpretation of my “Not yet, but sounds interesting ; the PT’s going crazy, alleging it doesn't reflect the truth”, insinuating that I’m trying to compete with a NYT journalist, is wrong, as usual.
As I haven’t seen the film, all I can refer to is the PT’s “outrage”. Thought it was clear, but obviously not to you.

@DT
No, none tried…perhaps because their only defense was the BF, or weren’t smart enough to turn the tables. Lula’s virtually only campaign promise was to eradicate hunger (‘zero hunger’ program, promising 3 meals /day), without saying how they'd implement it. When they did, the govt issued debit cards to the poor, credited monthly with a fixed value ; as most things here, didn’t work, led to fraud, was cancelled in its 2nd year.

His 1st two failed attempts got nowhere because his campaigns were very generic, lacking substance, not to mention that during the 1990 campaign (v. Collor) a ‘hairy’ story emerged about how he had abandoned his first wife and kid…that buried him.
In ’94, he lost miserably to FHC (creator of the Plano Real);

In ’88, the PT voted against the new Constitution ; early 90s Lula condemned the BF, claiming it was just a vote catcher - in 2003, he criticized those who had said that ; in ’94, Lula criticized the Plano Real, and the PT voted against it ; In his 2nd term and in Dilma’s 1st, he claimed the PT was responsible for controlling inflation; in 2011, the PT voted to approve the law which stipulates prison after (unanimous) conviction in an appellate court - today, to protect Lula, they want to revoke it…despite the fact that if revoked, it would put dozens of 1000s of convicted felons (murderers, rapists, drug dealers, corrupt politicians) back on the street. Is that enough ?
“D’you think he'd include you in his 'them'? perhaps, because I’m not uncouth, I have an education, am not corrupt, don’t support Maduro, Foro de SP, and don’t try to spread hate.

Apr 03rd, 2018 - 08:09 pm - Link - 0

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:o))

The Crooks must NOT be blamed or criticized. Afterall, they are just trying their very best to make the ends meet - Just like EVERYBODY else!
http://midia.gruposinos.com.br/_midias/jpg/2015/10/20/sinovaldo_para_2110_2015_cmyk-1124857.jpg

SO WHAT'S WRONG?

Apr 03rd, 2018 - 10:10 pm - Link - +1

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DemonTree

@JB
Well, if that was Lula's only promise it should have been easy to keep! He did manage to reduce hunger significantly as least, helped by the buoyant economy, but he must have had a few more policies, surely? Wikipedia says he supported land reform and a debt default when he first campaigned; I imagine that made him very unpopular in certain quarters, and he'd abandoned those by the time he was elected.

He really does seem to have changed his mind a lot, about important things. I suppose it's good to recognise when a plan is working and start supporting it, but not as good as seeing the benefit in the first place and being willing to support something another party proposed. And letting violent criminals out of jail would be a *very* unfortunate side effect of his desire to stay out himself.

Which president did you like best, anyway?

Oh, and did you feel the Earthquake yesterday? It was mentioned in another story, they said it could be felt as far as SP.

Apr 03rd, 2018 - 11:00 pm - Link - 0

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:o))

@DT:

PROBLEM/S:
REF: “letting violent criminals out of jail would be a *very* unfortunate side effect”:
- It isn't the 'side' effect. It's the MAIN Effect/OBJECTIVE
- A vast majority of the crooks are FREE anyway!
- Even if he is imprisoned, it will be for a namesake
- Even if he is imprisoned, he'll be a “hero”
- Even if he is imprisoned, he can still “rule” the country

SOLUTION - the ONLY solution:
https://i0.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Odebrecht-Presidente.jpg?resize=580%2C415&ssl=1

Apr 04th, 2018 - 09:57 am - Link - +1

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Jack Bauer

@DT
“Well, if that was Lula's only promise it should have been easy to keep! ”...one would expect so ; he obviously believed it was a promise that would compel the poor to vote for him...he was right, but he didn't keep it.

After the 'zero hunger' failure, he embraced the BF concept, more realistic and already mol tested...while the BF ended chronic hunger problems, I repeat, it “raised NO ONE out of poverty”...as the PT and lefties like to claim (40 millions... bla, bla, bla). Lula's greatest achievement, if could call it that, was to continue with just about all FHC's policies.
Honestly, at the moment I cannot think of any 'achievement' of his that was not already (partial) reality, or in the pipeline before he was elected....he didn't 'create' anything new ;
The economic boom gave poorer people the impression it was all Lula's doing, but all it needed for the truth to surface was the end of the boom and the end of the easy money.

I agree that it is perfectly normal to modify your opinion if strong, new evidence to support the change, appears...but Lula would always say what he thought the people wanted to hear at that moment, even if it contradicted what he had said two days before...and his dumb followers, too stupid to realize this, would applaud him like fanatics. You might say he 'abused their ignorance'.
Lula couldn't care less about the 'side-effects', given that he always put himself first (not Brazil) and believes that the worse the situation, the easier for people to believe his miraculous promises.

Considering Brazil's various chronic problems, would have to go with FHC for controlling inflation. The truth is that the civilian governments, after the military, didn't do anywhere near what they promised to, and could have done...FHC set the base for sustainable progress, and Lula mistook it for a chance to steal..

No didn't feel the quake...in SP, it was felt mainly on the Av. Paulista, the highest built-up area in São Paulo.

Apr 04th, 2018 - 04:21 pm - Link - 0

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DemonTree

@ :o))
It would be pretty funny if Lula was running the country from jail, like those drug kingpins but on a grander scale. I'm pretty sure letting out violent criminals is not an objective, though. Just letting out themselves and their corrupt cronies.

@JB
TBH, I think you could have done lot worse. Imagine if he'd gone in for Chavez-style socialism instead of mostly sticking with FHC's policies, and even if he hadn't gone that far, it's surprisingly easy to screw up the economy. Social programs and a rise in the minimum wage help people without being too much of a drain (the corruption on the other hand...) Ending chronic hunger is nothing to sniff at either. Brazil is not so poor as to escuse leaving people to starve, and probably any previous president could have done it if they had made it a priority.

It's just a shame he didn't keep his promise to try and tackle the reforms, I wonder if he regrets leaving them to Temer now? But he's probably a lot more worried about whether he's going to prison.

I would have guessed you'd pick FHC. It sounds like he did a decent job, and defeating inflation is a real achievement.

Apr 04th, 2018 - 10:23 pm - Link - 0

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:o))

@DT:

REF: “running the country from jail”: The idea is just too tempting; NOT to cross his mind! REF:
http://blogdoaftm.web2419.uni5.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/1855-1024x768.jpg

REF: “letting out violent criminals is not an objective”: Yes, of course not!

Almost ALL of those who are behind the bars; are the Small-Timers. The Bosses + the Corrupt [partnership] can now refine their “Skills & Strategies”.

So; ALL the corrupt will continue enjoying their Loot + Freedom and The Old-Crooks will gradually be replaced by the New-Crooks.

The happy ending is that everyone lives happily ever after!

Apr 05th, 2018 - 11:52 am - Link - 0

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Jack Bauer

@DT
Before Lula was elected (and the PT had a taste of power) there was no “Foro de SP”...this came afterwards, when the PT realized it was easy to steal and saw the possibility of staying in power indefinitely. VZ's Chavez was obviously an inspiration to Lula and Brazil's left.

Increasing the minimum wage above inflation, and social programs didn't even dent the budget, it was extreme corruption and incompetence. I've always been in favour of getting rid of chronic hunger, presuming it would lead to better things...better to live in a country without extreme poverty....but when it became obvious that the BF was also being used politically, as an electoral tool, it pissed me off.

I've said in previous posts, not so long ago, that one of the main reasons why the PT is against all the reforms, is exactly because the PT had the chance, wasted it and now does not want anyone else to take credit.

Just been watching scenes taken from TV Globo's helicopter filming Lula leaving the “Instituto Lula” (in SBCampo, where he was when he received the news that he'd have to present himself to Moro tomorrow , by 5 pm) and they filmed his two-car convoy driving over sidewalks and going through red lights to get to the Metallugy Union's HQ in SBCampo). ...probably to try to enact some plan to obstruct justice from being carried out...will he make run for it ? will he allege he's ill and incapacitated to go to Curitiba ? one can expect anything from theses 'petistas'...
Anyway, with the rejection of the toad's HC, common criminals are not about to be allowed to walk....

Apr 05th, 2018 - 10:28 pm - Link - 0

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:o))

@JB:

Watch him escape - just like the other crooks - with an excuse of being of depleted health and live in his triplex!
https://i1.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/OLIVEIRA-150316-Face.jpg?resize=580%2C373&ssl=1

Apr 06th, 2018 - 07:54 am - Link - 0

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Jack Bauer

@:o))
“Watch him escape”.....the toad has already declared he will NOT present himself to the Federal Police in Curitiba....don't know what he is planning, but I would say that his intention is to oblige the Feds to knock on his door, so that he can then fake that he is being forcibly dragged out of his home....just a well planned show to create more sympathy amongst his red followers and perpetuate the instability....wouldn't expect anything less from him.

Apr 06th, 2018 - 05:31 pm - Link - 0

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DemonTree

@JB
I looked it up on Wikipedia, and it says the Foro de SP was launched in 1990, long before Lula became president. Seems to me the PT had to move further towards the centre in order to get elected, and perhaps became more interested in power and wealth than their principles along the way.

I can't help thinking that Lula enjoyed his high approval ratings, and abandoned the reforms because they would make him less popular, and that that's probably a big part of the reason the PT oppose them now. But no doubt there are changes that they honestly object to as well.

I think Lula is due at Curitibia in 45 minutes. Wonder what will happen?

Apr 06th, 2018 - 07:19 pm - Link - 0

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:o))

@TH

REF: “I think Lula is due at Curitiba in 45 minutes. Wonder what will happen”:

: DON'T YOU KNOW?
: CAN'T YOU GUESS?

ANY or ALL of the following:
- He [+ the other crooks] will gradually be released as “NOT Guilty”
- They'll receive compensations of ridiculously high amounts for being “Wrongly Accused”
- Being NOT Guilty; they'ill be permitted to keep their loot
- They'll be considered as the National HEROES
- They ALL will continue to steal from the taxpayers.
- They'll LEGALIZE corruption [maybe it's legal already]
- They'll rule the country - FOREVER!
REF:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-24ZhRsqIgQI/VGYSu_clEVI/AAAAAAAAGV0/vxXYFijEYV0/s1600/pega-ladr%C3%A3o.jpg

Apr 07th, 2018 - 04:23 pm - Link - 0

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Jack Bauer

@DT
“Wikipedia says the Foro de SP was launched in 1990, long before Lula became president”

You’re right, but he only had the power to try to implement its philosophy in Brazil AFTER he was elected. Lula went into politics proper, only in 1982 when he entered and lost the race for Governor of SP.

In 1986 he was elected Congressman for SP, and during his 4 yr mandate, did absolutely nothing. However, his main, declared policies : to limit the right to private property (maybe why now all his assets are in other people's names...LOL) ; in favor of abortion (not surprising, given he’d abandoned his 1st wife and kid); nationalize all banks and the financial system (in order to control all the money); sever diplomatic relations with S.Africa due to apartheid...(morally correct, but more likely due to its popular appeal).

In 1988 he refused to sign the Constitution ; In 1990, he and Fidel founded the Foro de SP movement (he claims it was his idea), bringing together over 100 left-wing political parties in S.America and criminal organizations linked to drugs (FARC in Colombia, MIR in Chile).

He and other FSP leaders did not go public about the FSP, which was only discovered by a Brazilian lawyer, in 1997, and which forced the movement keep a low profile while it made plans for his future presidency and project of power.

To get elected, he lied and said whatever he thought the population wanted to hear…especially his fantastic promises to end hunger, as a way to captivate the poor…and to combat corruption....very sly of him, but with no scruples ;
Once elected (which was a big surprise to the PT), he wrote an open letter to the nation, trying to downplay his leftist tendencies, and saying he would (have to) adopt most of FHC's policies.

Now that Lula has made his show in SBCampo, and his plan, to try to oblige the Feds to remove him forcefully, failed, think he’ll present himself to the federal Police in SP.

Apr 07th, 2018 - 08:02 pm - Link - 0

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DemonTree

@JB
“He and other FSP leaders did not go public about the FSP, which was only discovered by a Brazilian lawyer, in 1997”

What? They could hardly bring together 100 different parties from several different countries and expect to keep it a secret!

I guess nationalising the banks is somewhat standard for a socialist, but what does limit the right to private property mean? And he evidently abandoned those ideas before he became president. Probably realised he'd never get elected with those kind of policies, But what did he do once in power? You said he had a scheme to end hunger that didn't work, and he expanded the BF to do the job instead. I guess he didn't nationalise the financial system. Did he follow any of the plans from the Foro de SP?

And now he's in prison. That only leaves another 500 or so crooked politicians to go...

Apr 09th, 2018 - 11:21 pm - Link - 0

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Jack Bauer

@DT
Ok, while not a state-secret in the true sense of the word, FSP made a point of not going public about its intentions. They knew it would call undue attention which could upset their plans. So the average citizen was not really aware of its existence until quite a bit later. When Lula was elected (end 2002), although he did not use the FSP as a platform, people with a bit of sense knew they should be concerned.

To limit ownership of private property : you can't own any property other than the home you live in. You cannot buy property as an 'investment'...to gain when/ if you sell it. In other words, trying to make very one equal by decree.
Knowing such extreme policies would make him powerful enemies, he chose to appeal to the poor (obviously the large majority) to get elected. His campaign promises were pure demagoguery : ) to eradicate hunger (the 1st project that failed - but if honest & sincere, would've been good) and 2) to combat corruption (a joke...); once in power, he had to put together some kind of programme, as the PT didn't have one, thus the continuation of FHC policies for a while. Also, cannot forget he was inheriting a country whose accounts were in order, with hopes for a better future.

The BF, which he built on top of previous successful experiments, was what really boosted his popularity, but mostly amongst the recipients (which after a few years reached 30 million...today, about 39 mil).

When he got to power, he realized he would not further any of his plans without support from the elite (business, political). He wrote - well, not exactly him, as he's semi-illiterate - an open letter to the nation, to tranquilize the elites that he would not make any drastic changes...this made the country relax, while he & his cronies started making plans, which ended (partially) when the “mensalão” scheme was uncovered in 2007, and more recently, with the “lavajato”. So, only 6 federal cases to go, as well as about 500 other crooks.

Apr 10th, 2018 - 08:00 pm - Link - 0

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DemonTree

@JB
So really, you mean they didn't advertise it. Guess they thought it would be unpopular, and I think it would have been. No property other than your own home seems kind of draconian. What about farms and other productive land? I've never heard of any country trying this, it could be kind of interesting to see what happened - as long as it's not here. What would they do with all the extra land that is owned by companies, or individuals? Give it to the government to run, or hand out to supporters?

I don't see anything wrong with his campaign promises except that he should have had more. Ending hunger is obviously a good thing, even if his first project didn't work, and combatting corruption would have made a big difference, IF he had done it. FHC did well ending the inflation, but you can't forget that previous presidents didn't even try to end hunger, and also did nothing about the corruption. Hence all the people who still support Lula.

And 'semi-illiterate', really? Isn't Portuguese easier to read than English, without all the irregular and illogical spellings?

We did get Netflix again, and I watched the first two episodes of 'The Mechanism'. Seems pretty good so far, and the real people are *very* thinly disguised. Similar names, and they even found similar looking actors for some of them. There was a funny bit where not-Lula and not-Dilma were preparing speeches; the Lula character was complaining the apartment they were using as a set was too middle class and had too many books.

Apr 11th, 2018 - 10:48 pm - Link - 0

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MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency

Rousseff and Lula furious with Netflix series “The Mechanism” on corruption

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