MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Lula negotiating his surrender following a Saturday mass for his deceased wife
Ex-president Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, Brazil's polarizing election frontrunner and leftist icon, was negotiating his surrender after dramatically skipping a first deadline Friday to start his 12-year prison sentence for corruption. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rules“NEGOTIATING” with a crook; aren't we? That's progress!
Apr 07th, 2018 - 11:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Brazil is now busy in creating an Excellent Image:
REF:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-d0PTOiMQCyg/V1w-3tsuQiI/AAAAAAAAQ64/LtftwOWZGnorKYYVrWczHhBI0qzS2n3wgCLcB/s1600/edra.jpg
Good thing that the Federal Police did not accept the Toad's provocation....all he wanted was for the police to enter and remove him forcibly from the Union's HQ, so that later on, he could claim, that besides being a political prisoner, he was a victim of physical aggression....didn't work , you stinkin' toad ...
Apr 07th, 2018 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@JB:
Apr 07th, 2018 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “later on, he could claim, that besides being a political prisoner, he was a victim of physical aggression”:
The crooks in the favelas do the same ANYWAY!
So by NOT keeping the Law & Order [or whatever of it is still left] and by not taking him forcibly; the System proved that they are EXTREMELY fragile. They had all the chance to demonstrate “Zero Tolerance” and they LOST it! Observing Lulla's “SUCCESS”; the copycats will repeat his performance. Watch the rest of the crooks escape - lock, stock & barrel.
Hear, hear the defenders of “Law & Order” become all worked up at Lula's postponing the moment of going behind bars.
Apr 08th, 2018 - 03:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0No doubt they shudder at the prospect of a former president who lifted over 20 million Brazilians out of poverty walking on the streets for a few more hours.
Judge Sergio Moro, who ordered Lula's prison, is the same who, in a mission to get Lula, illegally released a 2016 wiretapped conversation between Lula and Dilma to give a little help on the public side. No indignant calls for legality from Lula's enemies or valiant MP commentators at the time. Hey, what bad a little pushing can do when the goal is worthy?
Moro is the same guy who reduced it to 26 years through what is known in Brazil as “delação premiada” (reward for denunciation) when OAS's Leo Pinheiro, under the weight of a 45-year sentence, agreed to testify against Lula.
In the midst of it, is inspiring to see a human being of Lula's stature to face the prospect of being deprived of his personal freedom for years, and still calmly say nothing but good of those surrounding him. Compare this to those yappying and yearning to see him behind bars--as if changing history were so easy.
@EM
Apr 08th, 2018 - 10:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “as if changing history were so easy”
Indded NOT!
REF:
http://www.otempo.com.br/polopoly_fs/1.1593034.1522974466!image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/main-charges-resize_620/image.jpg
TILL THE REST OF THE CROOKS [MANY amongst them are Lulla's associates and coincidentally; they are in the SAME prison] TOO ARE BEHIND BARS!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/07/crowds-in-sao-paulo-block-lula-from-handing-himself-in
Apr 08th, 2018 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Words are not necessary.
“Brazil is a country of the future... and always will be.” ...Charles de Gaulle...
Apr 08th, 2018 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse +2@EM
Apr 09th, 2018 - 03:22 am - Link - Report abuse +1“Hear, hear the defenders of “Law & Order” become all worked up at Lula's postponing the moment of going behind bars”.
Who's getting worked up ? I think it's you, now that your hero IS behind bars....I was just explaining how Lula's cunning mind works, to try to get his followers to feel even sorrier for his sorry ass....but his ploy failed ....tough shit.
“No doubt they shudder at the prospect of a former president who lifted over 20 million Brazilians out of poverty walking on the streets for a few more hours.”
Reekie where d'you get such silly ideas ? The Federal Police just decided not to play Lula's little game, trying to play cat 'n mouse in the union HQ....and then, when Lula 'tried' to leave the HQ, his followers wouldn't let him ?? premeditated little show, which convinced nobody except his ignorant supporters (and that includes you).
And please tell me where the 20 million that Lula supposedly “lifted out of poverty”, are today ? Ok, I'll tell you, back where they were 16 years ago. And do you really think the Bolsa familia (around US$ 50/month) is going to lift anyone 'out of poverty' ?
“Moro illegally released a 2016 wiretapped conversation between Lula and Dilma”....how terrible....when Moro learned that Dilma was trying to protect Lula (give him 'immunity') by appointing him her cabinet Minister, Moro took the lead and aborted her stinkin' plan...so he really divulged what, illegally ? a crime in the making, OR, Lula's and Dilma's plan to get around the law...which is what ? perhaps “illegal” ?
Reekie why are you so angry about Leo Pinheiro's testimony in exchange for a reduced prison term ? it's known as a 'plea-bargain'. If what he had to say, had no value, the plea-bargain would have been thrown out and he'd serve his full sentence. Further, plea-bargains to reduce time served is a normal and legal procedure in most civilized countries...including the US and Canada. What is it that you cannot understand about it ?
It is extraordinary that cooperating with the police trying to bring law and order to a chaotic country is O.K. if it helps the guy on your team but a sin if it puts your guy behind bars. It is simplistic and infantile thinking by a bloke who never grew out of his teenage rebellion phase.
Apr 09th, 2018 - 10:04 am - Link - Report abuse +1You could easily argue for the positives that people living in abject poverty in Argentina, Brazil and Venezuela gained from electing a populist leader. The clever criminal like the Kirchners, Lula and Chavez did indeed give just a little to the poor to make their lives a little easier in return for their votes. Except they were all very clever not to give too much. Enough to keep them onside and voting for them but not so much that they pulled themselves out of poverty, actually worked and supported themselves, and questioned where all the money went.
The method of distracting with a little money whilst steal vast sums for their own enrichment is a well-worn path of leaders claiming to speak for the poor. That they fool the voters is expected because if you or I were hungry and someone offered you a meal a day for your vote, you would probably think it a fair deal. What is puzzling is that apparently educated and knowledgeable people seek to defend the criminal acts of these leaders.
Do the mathematics. Venezuela had a massive resource that should have had every single person wealthy, or at least living comfortable. Instead it is now the worst country in South America for levels of poverty. People are starving and dying for lack of food and healthcare. Where has all the money gone?
For every morsel fed to the poor in Argentina and Brazil, a larger portion of the wealth was stolen by the leaders and their cronies. How can anyone of any intelligence defend that? Imagine if the populist leaders had actually spent the money as they should have and how much better the lives of the poor would be.
@ElaineB
Apr 09th, 2018 - 10:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “a larger portion of the wealth was stolen by the leaders and their cronies”:
If it was just a “portion” [small/large]; the countries could have been the envy of the 1st World Countries! THE PROBLEM is that the political parties, the [so called] leaders and their “associates” [who are not necessarily involved in politics] steal EVERYTHING. So NOTHING is left for the masses - the present AND the future masses!
According to relatively recent figures (2018 estimate), Brazil has a population of 208,733,102. So Lulu “lifted” less than 10% out of “poverty”.
Apr 09th, 2018 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse +1“However, sparked by indignation and frustrations accumulated over decades from corruption, police brutality, inefficiencies of the political establishment and public service, numerous peaceful protests erupted in Brazil from the middle of first term of Dilma Rousseff, who had succeeded Lula after winning election in 2010.
Enhanced by political and economic crises with evidence of involvement by politicians from all the primary political parties in several bribery and tax evasion schemes, with large street protests for and against her, Rousseff was impeached by the Brazilian Congress in 2016. In 2017, the Supreme Court has asked for the investigation of 71 Brazilian lawmakers and nine ministers in President Michel Temer's cabinet allegedly linked to the Petrobras corruption scandal.”
So Lulu's magnanimity didn't have a lasting effect. Essentially, it could be seen as a pre-planned sop to keep the masses quiet whilst somebody else got on with the corruption. One item of information that would useful is the names of the 71 “lawmakers” and 9 ministers that were also in office when Lulu was president. That would help us to decide whether Rousseff was just a temporary stop-gap before Lulu got his gang back together. And have they been identified because they couldn't wait. After all, creaming off 0.1% of what more than 208 million people should have is quite a tidy sum. And then it depends on how many times a year and for how many years the creaming has been done. Starting with when Lulu got into power (2002) and when the street protests began (2012), it might be possible to see whether certain people decided that they couldn't wait to get Lulu back into power and that, protected by Dilma, they could just carry on taking their “cut”.
@Conqueror:
Apr 09th, 2018 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse +1You are 100% RIGHT! but Guess Again - WHO'LL WIN?
REF:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OUNJLz4MBxE/UDPTsdNG1uI/AAAAAAAAAV4/BkN8KOeVJnQ/s1600/Vereador+analfabeto.jpg
@JB
Apr 09th, 2018 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jack, who claims to live in Brazil, is angry at Lula for not surrendering quickly to police.
Jack's anger is always directed to popular leaders. Never against generals orchestrating coups, never against the killers of courageous activists such as Marielle Franco. Not sir. Jack was one of the few to put in circulation rumours that Marielle's election campaign “may” have been funded by a criminal gang. Jack is not saying anything that Marielle's assassins are still at large. Jack is not indignant that those who fired shots at Lula's election campaign caravan are doing well. Jack doesn't find that a group of generals issuing a threat of coup d'etat to Supreme Tribunal judges to influence their vote is a big deal.
Judge Moro's release to the media of a private wiretapped conversation? No problem! It's all good if it furthers the cause against Lula.
Interesting to see all the usual suspects coming back to MP comments section, united in their enthusiasm now that they believe their cause is finally going ahead. Both Elaine and Conque have found a new theory: Governments who redistribute wealth are in fact stealing much more than that. Ergo, all popular governments are, in fact, bad. Evidence? Who cares?
REF: Negotiations:
Apr 10th, 2018 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://youtu.be/LQTFkj0Jue8
@EM enough evidence to put Lula in jail. Enough evidence to land CFK in court. Venezuela speaks for itself. Have you been to any of the countries to see for yourself? No, of course not. That would destroy your fantasy.
Apr 10th, 2018 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Redistribution of wealth is pushing it. Buying votes is closer to the truth. Populist leaders don't want the great unwashed to become wealthy because they wouldn't vote for them. They enrich themselves and the people around them and feed a few crumbs to the poor; that's all.
I don't disagree with the THEORY of spreading wealth, I am intelligent enough to see that the populist leaders I named work to an entirely different paradigm.
@EM
Apr 10th, 2018 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Jack who claims to live in Brazil, is angry at Lula for nor surrendering quickly to the police” …Unbelievable.
First, why are you doubting I live in Brazil ? any specific reason ? IF I didn’t, I’d probably be a an uninformed clown like you….but I can see where you’re coming from, when you cannot prove me wrong, you try to discredit me, as if I lived in Timbuctoo and had no idea where Brazil is; Just another well-known socialist tactic.
Second, I’ve already explained I’m not angry becos the toad tried to play hide ‘n seek with the police…really couldn’t care less, but found it amusing to see him act exactly as I had predicted he would after Moro ordered his arrest. In fact, Moro was decent enough to allow him to surrender himself, and not be put in handcuffs…but the toad, too arrogant - as most stupid people who think they aren’t – he thought he’d outsmart the police. He failed, and on Saturday, after turning his deceased wife's mass into a political rally, with the right to get drunk in front of his ignorant followers, he marched off to jail like a good boy….but frothing at the mouth, bad mouthing the judges, the prosecutors and anyone else he remembered to. He just made a fool of himself, for all Brazil and the rest of the world to see.
For Dilma to appoint Lula as her cabinet Minister, just to give him immunity ? No problem ! it’s all good if it furthers the Toad’s impunity.
But Reekie, how about answering my statement and question to you, of a few days ago ? DT even reminded you, just in case you had forgotten...what’s happened ? Doesn’t your naivety allow you to reply ?
Reekie don't you know the difference between a government that is ‘popular’, and a ‘populist’ government ? I won't hold my breath waiting for any of your answers, which will never come...
@ElaineB:
Apr 13th, 2018 - 01:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “They enrich themselves and the people around them and feed a few crumbs to the poor; that's all”:
So under the name of democracy; what's wrong with THAT?
http://agora.com.vc/media/source/26-01-18_-_Charge_de_Ricardo_Welbert_sobre_a_condenacao_do_ex-presidente_Luis_Inacio_Lula_da_Silva_pelo_TRF-4_de_Curitiba.jpg
@EM
Apr 13th, 2018 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Reekie, you still there ? you had the nerve to allege I never answered your questions...tut, tut....I asked you to show me where, inadvertently I may have .......and then YOU don't reply....It's pretty clear what is happening here.....you accuse - without the slightest basis; when challenged, YOU slink out the back door...Ah, I get it, you don't 'debate on JB's terms'....very childish Reekie, but very representative of your just speak through your elbows.
@JB
Apr 13th, 2018 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jack: Instead of asking me to validate or defeat your postulates--which I won't--go right ahead and post links to your sources for all to see. In any event, I did a quick search with the google keywords you indicated, which was very educational--not so much for the pics, but seeing the use of them the Brazilian mainstream media did.
In any event, it's a bit late for you to pose as someone who has been convinced by evidence. You hate what Lula is and what Lula proposes. You have the gall to insult a leader using your keyword, but you won't ever take the risks the man did--all you can do is to yap at the man, purportedly because he took bribes -- but you also prodigally hate people like Marielle Franco, -- had the gall to help spread a nasty -- and quickly debunked -- rumour about her shortly after her assassination.
About your claim to live in Brazil, I must be skeptical. You appear to know some about that country--that's all. Lastly, I pity your nasty image--speaks a lot about your complexes.
@EM
Apr 13th, 2018 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You have the gall to insult a leader using your keyword”
So? You have criticised Macri enough times, and delighted in repeating that offensive song about him. If another Peronist government takes over and Macri is convicted of corruption in a few years time, it won't take much evidence to convince you he is guilty, will it?
RE Marielle, do you think you know Jack's opinion better than he does? He repeated something he read in the press, and debunked it himself in his very next comment. As for hating her 'prodigally', here's what he said at the time:
”But just fyi, over the last 2 days I have read and seen (TV) dozens of reports on Marielle, and her political trajectory, which have given me no motive to resent her, so why would I try to lie about her ?“
”Fully agree it IS a damned shame that she, and dozens of others, in many locations, are killed for trying to stand up for the lesser privileged, and that this has a lot to do with the state’s absence in public security.”
PS. If by 'nasty image' you mean his icon, it was me who suggested he use that picture, back when the site was redesigned and none of the comments had names on them. Perhaps it is my complexes you should be worried about?
@EM
Apr 14th, 2018 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Jack: Instead of asking me to validate or defeat your postulates--which I won't--go right ahead and post links to your sources for all to see”.
Reekie Lula Massot, 99% of what I post is easily verified through impartial TV reports, available on the internet (careful of fake news), in newspapers - just a matter of taking the time ; Regarding the links I DID send, even though you obviously didn't open all of them, you still try to imply that the ‘pics’ (presumably those of Lula in the ‘triprekis’ ?) were used ‘unfairly’ by the Brazilian MM. The photos speak for themselves, not much else is needed…and that must be what pisses you off.
“In any event, it's a bit late for you to pose as someone who has been convinced by evidence”.
WTF is that supposed to mean ? Hardly late. I’ve followed Lula’s steps since 1973, and I know the crook he is. That, along with him being founding member of the FSP, is why I hate him.
Sooner or later his arrogant confidence that he’d never be caught, would bite him in the ass….and that day has arrived.
Reekie Lula Massot, there you go again : “but you also prodigally hate people like Marielle Franco”…
Presume what you will, even that because I only mentioned a ”rumour about Marielle”, that I necessarily have to ‘prodigally’ hate her…I’d never even heard of her before her assassination, far less hated her.
“About your claim to live in Brazil, I must be skeptical”;
Why ? you know I live in Brazil, I never denied it, so why NOW, after my commenting on mainly Brazilian issues, for 3 years, do you come up with such a brainless doubt ? Trying to discredit me ?...but why would I even bother to follow what happens here if I didn't live here ? So tell me, where DO I live ? If in Timbuctoo, I’d be concerned with Timbuctoo's local politics, not Brazil's.
You pity the image ? how awful… You mean you never watched any the '24 hours' series on TV ? Would it make you happy if I changed my icon for a fluffy pussy cat ?
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