MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Lula's defense hopes for an early retrieve if Supreme Court changes a key law
Brazil's ex-president Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, who began a 12-year jail sentence on Saturday in Curitiba, could win an early reprieve if the country's top court decides to change a key law. Marco Aurelio Mello, a judge at the Supreme Federal Tribunal (STF), said he would petition the divided court next Wednesday to revisit the current law on incarceration during appeals. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesWhat is wrong in Brazil? I was under the impression that it is supposed to be a democratic country. To my mind, in the case of Brazil, law is something determined by the Chamber of Deputies and the Federal Senate. Since when does a judge in the Supreme Federal Tribunal “petition” the Supreme Federal Tribunal to change the law? The numbskull proposing to do this should resign immediately. He isn't fit to hold office. And there should be a prompt investigation by the Federal Police to find out how much he's been paid or what he's been promised.
Apr 09th, 2018 - 09:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0@Conqueror:
Apr 09th, 2018 - 11:47 am - Link - Report abuse +1REF: DEMOCRACY [“I was under the impression that it is supposed to be a democratic country”]:
Please give this a thought: In ANY country where/when:
- The elections are funded by the “donations” [in billions]
- The opinions are adulterated by the media [social, etc.]
- The votes are negotiated by the candidates
- electing a leader is EASY but kicking him/her out [for whatever reason/s] is practically IMPOSSIBLE.
- A constitution & the laws are intentionally misinterpreted for the frequent benefit of the crooked
REF:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Sb-_bGzgVxA/VCbu4UDvNlI/AAAAAAAAAPQ/dQXfyiwGjQM/s1600/democracia5.jpg
DEMOCRACY JUST DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE! So why should Brazil be DIFFERENT?
It's certainly refreshing to read Conque's impassioned defense of legality and order in Brazil.
Apr 09th, 2018 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse -3Of course, he is all worked up at the thought the Tribunal Supreme may change a law and that Lula da Silva may be freed as a result.
Here, Conque, I am going to give you a couple other things you may get indignant about.
Judge Sergio Moro sentenced Lula after finding him guilty of accepting an apartment as a bribe. Lula never owned the apartment and never stayed in it.
Out of the 73 witnesses, not one provided concrete evidence linking the apartment to the former President. They confirmed Lula visited the apartment...on one occasion.
Lacking evidence, Moro used a statement from Leo Pinheiro, who as OAS (the builder of the apartment) president had been sentenced to 44 years in prison and who saw his term reduced after implicating Lula.
Moro allowed Pinhero to spend two and a half years in prison and to apply for a community sentence--even before he compensates Petrobras for losses he caused.
Let's see how mad Conque becomes.
“The evidence against Mr. da Silva is far below the standards that would be taken seriously in, for example, the United States’ judicial system.” The New York Times, By Mark Weisbrot Jan. 23, 2018
Apr 09th, 2018 - 07:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@EM:
Apr 09th, 2018 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse +1REF: “Moro allowed Pinheiro to spend two and a half years in prison and to apply for a community sentence -even before he compensates Petrobras for losses HE caused”:
- “HE”; of course refers to Pinheiro and NOT Lulla PLUS his whole gang [also behind the bars]
- On the other hand, Pinheiro&Co. aren't exactly The Saints.
- Both - he & Lulla & Co - sound more like the experts in a well-established system of “One hand washes the other” or “You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours” - to put it MILDLY.
- OTHERWISE, just for offering bribe; Lulla himself could have ensured that Pinheiro goes to jail a long time ago.
The Responsibility of a politician is to improve the Quality of Life of the MASSES, improve their Standard of Living AND Lower the Costs of Living. But then; how would a political system survive without a well-organized bribe giver AND without a bribe taker?
IN FACT; the MOST Attractive Part of BEING a politician is the “Fringe Benefits”, the Legal Protection to KEEP these benefits and the possibility of being re-elected [even after the condemnation] by twisting the judicial system. Those who believe otherwise may pl. give up their faith in the Fairy Tales aboutor at least stop sucking on their mama’s titties.
REF:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6dtdgm8QsnU/T8f17N-LmiI/AAAAAAAAET8/Ov8CDFfB8OM/s1600/charge_politicos.jpg
@TH:
REF: “The evidence against Mr. da Silva is far below the standards that would be taken seriously in”:
As mentioned above, it takes TWO to “Play the Game”. Besides, the illicit deeds of the corrupt are ALWAYS without leaving any traces of evidence. There are Specialists & Consultants to make this work smoothly. Certainly; it's not expected that there would be a proof - hard evidence - such as the signed agreements and the receipts. Even the huge sums [gifts, donations, etc - NOT bribes] are clandestinely transferred anywhere in the world without leaving any trace or are hidden in somebody else's apartments [rang a bell?]
@EM
Apr 09th, 2018 - 08:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Speaking of evidence, please will you answer JB's question here:
http://en.mercopress.com/2018/04/06/lula-resists-arrest-deadline-waiting-for-last-minute-habeas-corpus-filed-at-an-appeals-court/comments#comment486666
He certainly thinks the witnesses gave enough evidence linking Lula to the apartment. What were the other 72 witnesses saying if they weren't?
@Conqueror
The Supreme Court in the US works the same way, their job is to interpret the law, decide between conflicting laws, and judge whether laws violate the constitution. If they do, they cease to be law.
Do you consider America to be a democratic country?
@DT:
Apr 09th, 2018 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse +1REF: “Do you consider America to be a democratic country?”:
- Aforesaid [by me] is not strictly restricted to Brazil alone.
- Pl. go through D. T's tweets + the mounting scandals & political confusion [ALMOST to a crisis-level] and you'll get the answers + the proofs.
REF:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8ioetS7seak/Vg2_oF8w-pI/AAAAAAAA6rM/Z0_si3GR5PM/s1600/partidos%25252520politicos.png
Bonehead
Apr 09th, 2018 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The illicit deeds of the corrupt are ALWAYS without leaving any traces of evidence.”
What an incredibly inept and stupid statement. So according to you every person charged with offence must be guilty. I believe that to be one of most fascist statement’s I’ve ever encountered.
DT “He certainly thinks the witnesses gave enough evidence linking Lula” No he doesn’t, he has overwhelmingly been discredited. His wife is major player in an opposition political party.
@ :o))
Apr 09th, 2018 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +1The question was what Conq thinks, not what I think. I suppose the US is mostly democratic.
@The Liar
What on earth are you talking about now? Whose wife?
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Apr 09th, 2018 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Moro you idiot, who else’s could it possibly be?
WTF is wrong with you? I was talking about Jack Bauer, and you not only misunderstand but have the cheek to call me an idiot for not reading whatever passes as your mind! Crawl back under your bridge, troll.
Apr 09th, 2018 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse +1@DT:
Apr 09th, 2018 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse +1REF: “Every person charged with offense must be guilty”:
CORRECTION:
Every person charged - due to a reasonably doubtful suspicion of offenses [WITH motives] - could well be hiding behind a law [AND protected by HIGHLY paid Advocates] to pose as NOT guilty - in spite of the confessions from the Whistle-Blowers [“Ex” Associates].
SIMPLY PUT:
- It takes TWO to Tango
- Where there is smoke, there is/was FIRE
- Birds of the SAME [political] feathers flock together
Just as an example; MAYBE IT DIDN'T CROSS YOUR MIND that the Russian Agents could possibly have been killed in the past; by Russia. But there is NO Evidence.
And pl. don't worry too much. Lulla will be free in a jiffy! They'll spare you the agony of waiting for twelve years.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Apr 09th, 2018 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I was talking about Jack Bauer” the untruth that claim is in the address ‘liar’.
Bonehead
“Every person charged -“ You made yourself abundantly clear the first time. You don’t get a second kick at the can.
“Lulla will be free in a jiffy!”
Apr 09th, 2018 - 11:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In November perhaps? It's not true that every person charged is guilty, don't forget the judges can be bribed to convict the innocent as easily as to let off the guilty. Besides, sometimes the police just get it wrong.
@The Liar
You're being ridiculous as usual. I know who I was talking about; it's not my fault you misread it, but I know you can never admit to your mistakes.
@DT
Apr 10th, 2018 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse +2REF: In November perhaps?
OR well before!
$$$+POWER is a deadly combination. PRACTICALLY; anything & everything is possible for anyone/whoever has both - if he/she/it/they put their minds to it.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Apr 10th, 2018 - 12:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0There’s no mistake, as he hasn’t even posted on this thread. “I was talking about Jack Bauer” the untruth that claim is in the fact that, therefore, it's an impossibility to claim you’re addressing someone who isn’t present, ’liar’. Confirmed by the use of ‘@The Liar’ in both your last post and the original. Give them enough rope.
“or the wretched conceit of a liar, in supposing himself clever enough to invent stories so ingenious that they shall, for any time, impose on people for the truth, and the still grosser folly in imagining, as he must do, that the world will, without investigation and analysis, take for granted anything he chooses to assert that world more shrewd, more cunning, and as prying as himself what a conceited ass must the liar be! How superior over others in cunning must he not believe himself! What fools must he not suppose the rest of mankind!”
CHARLES WILLIAM DAY, The Maxims, Experiences, and Observations of Agogos
@Dimwit
Apr 10th, 2018 - 08:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0If I had been addressing JB I would have said 'you'.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Apr 10th, 2018 - 09:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0@The Liar is what you used in both posts, and “Whose wife?” Besides JB is conspicuously absent.
So your caught in yet another lie, liar. So nobody other than myself has used the term wife.
@DT:
Apr 10th, 2018 - 09:40 am - Link - Report abuse +1REF: In November perhaps?
Petista diz que País precisa de ‘mais Gilmar Mendes’
http://politica.estadao.com.br/blogs/coluna-do-estadao/petista-diz-que-pais-precisa-de-mais-gilmar-mendes/
I HAD ALREADY REPLIED “WELL BEFORE” AND WITH THIS DEVELOPMENT; LULLA IS PRACTICALLY FREE ALREADY AND MIGHT AS WELL BE THE [NEXT ???] PRESIDENT!
I call you a liar because you are a liar and also because you use stupid offensive names for other people. If you stop then so will I.
Apr 10th, 2018 - 09:42 am - Link - Report abuse +1And I never said anybody else used the term wife. What on earth are you babbling about now?
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Apr 10th, 2018 - 09:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Wiggle all you want, but you are ingloriously revealed.
“I call you a liar because you are a liar” Without meeting your BoP alone, reveals who is the liar here.
I’ve met my BoP, so over to you liar.
The only thing you've revealed is that you're dumber than a door.
Apr 10th, 2018 - 10:28 am - Link - Report abuse +1BBC [Brasil]:
Apr 10th, 2018 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse +1Os 4 governadores citados na Lava Jato que perderam foro privilegiado para disputar eleições:
http://www.bbc.com/portuguese/brasil-43707120?ocid=socialflow_twitter
- WATCH THEM Receiving Back Their Privileges - S00N
- WATCH THEM Become The Candidates - S00N
@ :o))
Apr 10th, 2018 - 11:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Now this could be interesting. How vigorously will they be pursued? It says there won't be enough time for a conviction before the election, but what if they don't win? Alckmin is running for President so he may be taking a big risk.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Apr 10th, 2018 - 11:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Since I beat you in every encounter what does that make you?
You and JB make many claims, but, I’m the only one that proves theirs, liar.
@DT:
Apr 10th, 2018 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse +2- Once a politician; ALWAYS a politician
- If not directly; indirectly, the laws can/will change in their favor.
- If not directly, indirectly; their stooges will be in power
- The buying/selling of votes can show who the winner is.
@DT
Apr 10th, 2018 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“Speaking of evidence, please will you answer JB's question here:”
http://en.mercopress.com/2018/04/06/lula-resists-arrest-deadline-waiting-for-last-minute-habeas-corpus-filed-at-an-appeals-court/comments#comment486666
DT: No. I don't debate in JB's terms.
Nice try, JB.
What, you don't debate in terms of the evidence? Do you base all your opinions on news articles? Or you've made your mind up in advance; you think Lula's such a wonderful person he can't possibly be guilty, so there's no need to check?
Apr 10th, 2018 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@EM
Apr 10th, 2018 - 11:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Of course, he - Conque - is all worked up at the thought the Tribunal Supreme may change a law and that Lula da Silva may be freed as a result.”
Reekie, P-L-E-A-S-E stop showing off your extreme ignorance. The STF , or rather 2 or 3 of the SC judges, were anxious to judge on the ruling of Lula's request for an HC, and to eventually, in the same session, start to 'try' to change jurisprudence (established Nov 2016) which currently permits those condemned unanimously in an appellate court, to start to serve their prison sentence, with the only and specific purpose of trying to free ONE man, Lula....so in your opinion, it is quite OK to change the law to favour ONE crook. Reekie, you and your pal TH, aka the “Liar”, are too stupid for words...I'm just writing this for the benefit of those who want to know the truth....which neither you, nor numb nuts are interested in.
As to you Reekie, I think I have always overestimated your intelligence. Please forgive me...“I don't debate in JB's terms”.....there are no terms, just to stick to the truth.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Apr 11th, 2018 - 12:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0“TH, aka the “Liar” Say you, also JB “Your insistence that I'm a fascist”, Brazil's corruption scandals reach Lula da Silva: ...
15 Jack Bauer; “..Am pretty sure that military are accompanying all this … I hope they DO take over…”, Brazil remembers the 50th anniversary of the coupe…
Mary, Mary quite contrary.
“the truth....which neither you, nor numb nuts are interested in.”
Since you like to frequently engage in name calling, as you’re unable to piece together a coherent argument.
So you enjoy North American parlance and even tried to pass yourself off as Canadian. I’ve got great one from Quebec for you, cocksuckure.
@DT
Apr 11th, 2018 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“What, you don't debate in terms of the evidence?”
DT: Most MP postings express readers' opinion on MP stories. As for myself, I have limited time and as a result I will mostly post my opinion on matters published here or on opinions expressed by other readers.
However, anybody wanting to dig into a deeper debate and analysis is welcome to it and I will be reading it with interest.
For example, let JB post a link to photos and let him explain how, in his opinion, such photos are irrefutable proof of Lula's guilt. He got a bit uncomfortable when you asked him to show how to view such photos. In any event, I do encourage you and other readers to follow his direction ”google 'fotos mostram visita do Lula a triplex em Guarujá” and make your own opinion about the material. But don't ask me to validate or refute it--I simply don't have enough information about it and won't be spending time on it. I do know how judge Sergio Moro has behaved and I don't believe he is in search of justice. He is just an instrument of those who couldn't care less about democracy in Brazil.
@JB
Don't patronize me, JB--and don't pretend to be neutral either. You hate Lula and what Lula represents, and for you, as it is for the Brazilian elite, putting Lula in prison is just one more step in trumping Brazil's democracy.
I hope to see your comments on today's story showing (oh supreme irony) a “tiny, right-wing PEN party” petition for a legal change that could mean freedom for Lula will be considered by the Supreme Tribunal.
Come on, JB, tell us what do you think of the following:
“PEN filed the petition back in 2016. The hard-right party had a change of heart this week, even trying to withdraw its petition, when it became clear that if successful the petition would benefit Lula, the main leader of Brazil's left.”
We are anxiously waiting.
http://en.mercopress.com/2018/04/11/brazil-supreme-court-delays-considering-a-change-a-law-that-could-release-jailed-lula
Old habits: REF:
Apr 11th, 2018 - 03:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZQo62XWdfgU/VRSkM2FOthI/AAAAAAAARLc/GUuZ5-GS-Ug/s1600/charge_propina.jpg
@EM
Apr 11th, 2018 - 05:25 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Reekie, already told you to google “imagens de Lula no triplex” to see the photos; but ok, if it’s too difficult, watch https://youtu.be/qnRGvbhRDEo
And, I’ll explain why, imo, “such photos are irrefutable proof of Lula's guilt”. Were taken Sep/Oct 2014, during the final inspection of the apartment, after which he'd receive the keys from Leo P.
Don't understand your allegation that “He (JB) got a bit uncomfortable when you (DT) asked him to show how to view such photos” ....where did you see 'discomfort” ?
But take a look now ‘n knock yourself out. And once again, pls stick to what I actually say instead of trying to twist my words, to create doubt.
If you think that TV Globo’s report is fake news, don’t you think Lula would’ve sued them ? You can bet your dupa on it, but seems you’d rather deny the proof, even when it's rubbed in yr face.
It’s clear that you and I have very different ideas about democracy.
Me “patronize you” ? you crazy ? might feel sorry for you but I don’t , because it is your choice to ignore the proof. And ‘yes’ I DO hate Lula and all that he represents : ignorance, arrogance and corruption.
Regarding the PEN’s petition (request for injunction presented to the STF in 2016) to suspend ‘prison after conviction by appellate court’ (2nd instance), days after the STF had established jurisprudence (not yet Law) “permitting” prison immediately after conviction in an appellate court, PEN now alleges that their lawyer “Kakay”, went ahead with the petition, UNauthorized ; the reason why they now want to withdraw the petition, is because they realize it might favour Lula, and don't want to seen as a party that favors endless appeals so that criminals can delay the beginning of their sentences. What is so mysterious ?
Believe that Marco Aurelio (judge) has agreed to postpone its examination for 5 days, until PEN has time to justify their current request. STF Sorry to keep you waiting, causing unnecessary anxiety.
@EM
Apr 11th, 2018 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“But don't ask me to validate or refute it--I simply don't have enough information about it and won't be spending time on it.”
That would be all very well - it's not your job to know and I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to spend the time on it - except you then come on here declaring Lula is innocent and there's a conspiracy against him, accusing Jack of having some kind of agenda because he thinks differently, even criticising me for believing what is in the papers... when you've never checked it for yourself. Either you're *so sure* Lula is innocent that you don't need any evidence, or you just don't care.
I'd like to know; if some really conclusive proof appeared tomorrow that Lula was guilty, would you want him to stay in jail? Would you still support him becoming president again?
@JB
“Were taken Sep/Oct 2014, during the final inspection of the apartment, after which he'd receive the keys from Leo P.”
We can only see the entrance of the flat in the photos, but it looks very white and plain. Wasn't it supposed to have been decorated and furnished to Lula's - or rather Marisa's - specifications?
It was interesting seeing this famous triplex, anyway. It doesn't look like that much from the outside, for an Ex-President who supposedly stole billions. What sort of homes do the other former presidents have, or the powerful ministers?
RE PEN, apparently they weren't worried about either allowing endless appeals (effective impunity), or being seem as the party that favours endless appeals, until they realised it might benefit Lula. It doesn't say much for their principles either way.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Apr 11th, 2018 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“accusing Jack of having some kind of agenda because he thinks differently, even criticising me for believing what is in the papers”
“The evidence against Mr. da Silva is far below the standards that would be taken seriously in, for example, the United States’ judicial system.” The New York Times, By Mark Weisbrot Jan. 23, 2018
@DT
Apr 11th, 2018 - 10:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yr question to EM “if some really conclusive proof appeared tomorrow that Lula was guilty”....you mean, MORE conclusive than that already presented, right ?
IF EM has refused to accept any of the proof so far presented, and it's a lot, even if Lula confessed, Reekie would say it's because the Feds coerced him....poor Lula, poor Reekie.
The 'final' inspection customarily is only to check the structure, and in this case also the structural changes....another company (Tallento), contracted by OAS, took care of the flooring, furniture and finishing touches (done after Lula received the keys).
The building really isn't anything to write home about, but remember that when Marisa Leticia bought into it (1st installment, to Bancoop, before it went bust) Lula was still in the middle of his first term.. before the money started to roll in ; later, when OAS got involved and Lula knew it was going to be a “gift”, he must've realized it was best to keep a low profile, an apartment that would not raise suspicions. Then again, why look a gift horse in the mouth?
Most other politicians that have been rich for a long time, i.e., didn't become rich overnight (which does not mean their fortunes did not come from stealing), usually live in far more luxurious homes.
Re the PEN, that's why I said they are now doing the right thing , for the wrong reason.
@JB
Apr 11th, 2018 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I was going to say 'if Lula confessed', but then I realised EM would probably think it was coerced. What I meant was proof that would convince EM, whatever that might be, because I wanted to know if he cares at all whether Lula is guilty or not.
I didn't realise Lula was even supposed to have received the keys. Who gave them to him and who testified about it? And what happened to them, did he return them after deciding not to move in? Structural changes = personal elevator?
“an apartment that would not raise suspicions”
That was a waste of time if so. Perhaps he should have been more ambitious like some of the other politicians. Were most of them very rich before going into politics then? I noticed some of those STF judges had familiar names; two Mellos, are either of them related to the former President Collor de Mello?
All very well “ ripping off ” billions, but how does one spend it without causing concern? I would appreciate a reply so as I can spend some.
Apr 12th, 2018 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@DT
Apr 12th, 2018 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The proof of Lula’s guilt fills more than 1000 pages (only this 'first' case – 6 more to go). Agree, far too long to read, but having watched the testimony of all the witnesses, of both the accusation and of the defence (on TV), and reading the papers, became quite familiar with it, as well as the next one (Lula's home in Atibaia - “which belongs to a good friend of mine” - due to OAS involved in both cases).
The defence obviously only called Lula’s friends to be character witnesses, and what would you expect them to say, other than “I know of nothing that condemns Lula in any way ? ”
The fact is that their testimony added nothing to the process, other than their ‘friendly’ opinions.
Regarding the keys, it was part of Leo Pinheiro’s testimony, as well as that of the engineer which accompanied him on the visit. As to where they ended up isn’t important, as Lula could’ve thrown them out.
The structural changes were the elevator, the pool, the layout…the furniture etc could be in the flat in less than a month, permitting the family to spend Christmas in it, as requested by M. Letica, according to Leo P.
Many Congressional members were rich before they were elected, as their families are owners of industry, agricultural and commercial empires…probably built on money stolen years ago, but considered ‘respectable’ now. Their interest in getting elected is to present projects, or make laws, to favour their businesses and that of their friends. Marco Aurelio Mello is Fernando Collor’s cousin, so it’s all in the family.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Apr 13th, 2018 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The proof of Lula’s guilt fills more than 1000 pages”
“The evidence against Mr. da Silva is far below the standards that would be taken seriously in, for example, the United States’ judicial system.” The New York Times, By Mark Weisbrot Jan. 23, 2018
@DT:
Apr 13th, 2018 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse +1REF: @ :o))
Why do you keep calling him Lulla?
Just to keep THE Lula separate from the REST of the Lulas. P.S.: It was not intended to offend you or anyone else, for that matter. REF:
http://www.otempo.com.br/polopoly_fs/1.1599407.1523576164!image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/main-charges-resize_620/image.jpg
@TH:
REF: “The evidence against Mr. da Silva is far below the standards that would be taken seriously”:
Pl. don't be too concerned/worried.
He and the rest of the crooks will be out on the streets [&/or in Their Very Own Triplexes]; just in a few days from now. So please hold your breath till then.
“So please hold your breath till then.”
Apr 13th, 2018 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, please do. ;) I do love your posts sometimes, :o)). And I'm not offended by 'Lulla', if it's offensive in some way then I don't know it.
@JB
Surely the defence tried to discredit Pinheiro's testimony, if it was key to the case? And what was the name of this engineer who saw Lula receive the keys? I'll try and look up what he said if the papers are online. I take it the keys were not found, anyway?
Those modifications sound quite difficult if the building was already mostly complete. The weight of the pool would surely need reinforcements if the building wasn't designed for it, and there wouldn't have been any space left for the elevator shaft. I suppose the pool is on the roof? I'm trying to find photos but it's hard to know if they are of the right thing. And was the flat furnished or not? I'm confused.
“Many Congressional members were rich before they were elected, as their families are owners of industry, agricultural and commercial empires…probably built on money stolen years ago, but considered ‘respectable’ now. Their interest in getting elected is to present projects, or make laws, to favour their businesses and that of their friends. Marco Aurelio Mello is Fernando Collor’s cousin, so it’s all in the family.”
Sounds lovely, and you still prefer those people to Lula?
@DT:
Apr 13th, 2018 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “Many Congressional members ........................., so it’s all in the family.”
THAT's why I call it a FAKE Democracy where there is an illusion of freedom and the reality of “almost” slave style lives of the [always victimized] repressed masses.
Speaking of Collor:
http://www.avozdocidadao.com.br/agentesdecidadania/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/charge-mariano-collor.jpg
@DT
Apr 13th, 2018 - 10:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sure the defence tried to discredit Leo P, but besides his testimony, there was that of OAS employees ‘n engineers at the site/apartment when Lula used to make an appearance ; the OAS director with Leo P, that was there to hand over the keys, was Roberto Moreira ; a final inspection before handing over the keys is standard procedure, however it is never done by the company’s directors…unless, of course, the new owner is a VIP ; besides their testimony, there is that of the janitor, who confirmed the various visits by Lula and his wife - and once or twice with two of the kids (those that today are also millionaires) – and was sacked because he testified.
Regarding the modifications, not really all that difficult, especially for a company that was used to taking on enormous and complex projects, not to mention that OAS took over the building when it was still in its unfinished state. The slab under the pool could easily be reinforced to support the pool, which is probably quite small. An elevator shaft could be constructed and well disguised on the side of the building. That's why the cost of the modifications was higher than that of the original apartment. The furniture etc would only go in after Lula had the keys...watching an interview on TV, with the director of the company in charge of the final touches (Tallento), am not sure if he said he wasn't able to start, or unable to finish the work, before the “lavajato” placed its finger on the apartment .
Don't get me wrong... I never said I 'prefer' those people to Lula...Of course I don't. I want all of them to get screwed, as they deserve. But even they, with all the corruption, and their disdain for the population, never got close to bankrupting the country, or trying to implement a Venezuelan-style democracy.
@JB:
Apr 13th, 2018 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “I want all of them.....Venezuelan-style democracy”:
Can't say that you are wrong! A relevant [old] story:
https://i1.wp.com/blogdoaftm.web2419.uni5.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/charge-3-820x615.jpg
@JB
Apr 14th, 2018 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I looked for Roberto Moreira's testimony, but I could only find a Youtube video; almost an hour of it and I can't understand a word. You can't google translate a video or even do a search for 'chaves' as you could with a document.
I did find this article though, which might shed some light on the alterations:
https://noticias.uol.com.br/ultimas-noticias/agencia-estado/2017/05/04/ex-diretor-da-oas-afirma-que-triplex-estava-reservado-a-lula.htm
It says the lift was installed inside the apartment, going between the 3 floors, a much smaller job. It also sounds like the triplex already had a pool and it simply needed repairs, and they also altered the staircase.
Now something else I'd like to know is when these modifications were made, that should be possible to find out, right? From another article, Lula said he found faults in the triplex when he went to look at it (the same time the pictures were taken), so it would make some sense if the changes were made after his visit?
@DT
Apr 15th, 2018 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Video IS long, but the article sums it up pretty accurately. But I stand corrected : pool was already foreseen in the original Bancoop project, and the elevator was internal.
But the main points made by Roberto Moreira, were that the apartment was reformed for the Lula's family (which he became aware end 2013), & that it was never put up for sale. The fact that Lula never became the “official” owner of the apartment - already explained why - is irrelevant.
Was unable to find a renovation chronogram, but seems that the reno took place btwn April & Oct 2014. However, IMO what’s important, is : B4 Bancoop went bust, Marisa had bought a quota of R$ 47,000 (2005/6 ?) for flat 141, which was changed for 164A when OAS took over in 2010.
According to RM, ML and Lula’s son, Fabio Luis visited apartment around March ‘14, and it was only weeks after that visit with Leo P that he ordered the reno. Apparently most of the work was completed by Aug, except for the kitchen.
Witnesses of that and other visits by ML, are Condo janitor (later sacked for opening his mouth), the super, porters, 2 OAS engineers, director & employees of Co hired by OAS to install kitchen, decoration etc. One OAS employee (don’t have a name) confirmed participation in a meeting with ML, Luis Fabio and Leo P, to discuss details of the reno.
The cost of renovations (R$ 1,1 million) were subtracted from Lula’s credit with OAS, as per discussions btwn Leo P and Paulo Okamoto (Pres of Inst. Lula) and João Vaccari (PT treasurer). When the ‘lavajato’ was closing in, Leo P asked PO and JV how to proceed ; Leo P’s testimony of that meeting : was told to keep going as arranged, apartment must remain in OAS’s name, and later they’d see how to transfer it, or “whatever”. Lula later testified it was all his wife’s doing. The “faults” in the apartment Lula talked about in front of Moro, were presumably addressed by the renovation, the main one being the circular staircase, which was changed.
If the renovations were done between Apr & Oct 2014 then it was before Lula visited the apartment. I haven't heard that he went there more than once, even if ML did. And OAS gave ML her money back, which seems a little odd if they were going to take an apartment. I don't see what's wrong with having a spiral staircase anyway.
Apr 15th, 2018 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How do you mean, 'Lula's credit with OAS'? And did Paulo Okamoto and João Vaccari testify at the trial?
GREAT NEWS [for some]: From: Reuters:
Apr 16th, 2018 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”Brazil TOP Court Ruling:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brazil-politics-lula/brazil-top-court-ruling-could-free-lula-derail-graft-fight-idUSKBN1HN1EY?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5ad4a30804d3012405f6e9ec&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter
The prediction by me was not so different!
@DT
Apr 16th, 2018 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When Lula testified, he said he'd been to the apartment only once, in Feb 2014, which was when he concluded it was full of problems. Probably why ML visited the apartment with son Fabio, in March (to discuss how to improve it).
When asked about the photos in which he appears with Leo P & RM, he admitted “he might have made aother visit, months later”, as confirmed by both LP ‘n RM ;
According to witnesses (OAS personnel who worked on the renovations, ‘n Condo employees), it was ML, not Lula, who visited frequently, to check progress.
So it's known that Lula went (at least) twice, in Feb and in Oct/Nov 2014 (to accompany the final inspection). There is no proof that he visited the apartment other times, but the fact that some condo residents (plus the janitor, I believe) claimed that on several occasions the main elevator was commandeered by people extraneous to the Condo, who held it on the 16th floor for short periods of time, seems to suggest that perhaps he did.
Whether ML's down payment to Bancoop before the project was transferred to OAS, was actually returned (or not, in 2010/11) is not 100% clear...but even if one is to presume it WAS, this would’ve occurred by 2011....so why would Lula, and/or ML have any reason to visit the building again ?
Lula's credit : Emilio Odebrecht testified that at the end 2010 (when Lula left the presidency), he (EO) informed Lula he was being given a R$ 300 mil credit (as per speadsheets found in Odeb's bribe dept, showing a R$ 23 mil balance, as well as in their computer filing system in Switzerland (Drousys); the funds were used to pay Lula's highly lucrative lectures in Brazil ‘n around the world, as well as to finance PT activities.
In the same manner as w/ Odebretcht, Lula had an account with OAS, controlled inside OAS. Vaccari kept silent when called by Moro; AFAIK, Okamoto was only questioned /spoke abt the R$ 1,3 mill paid by OAS to store Lula’s “stuff’ (taken fm Palacio Alvorada) btwn 2011/14.
WHAT A RELIEF! FINALLY, A RAY OF HOPE!
Apr 17th, 2018 - 08:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “..............................diz Raquel Dodge em Harvard”
https://oglobo.globo.com/brasil/a-corrupcao-comeca-nas-urnas-diz-raquel-dodge-em-harvard-22597889
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