MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Twenty people killed overnight in Sao Paulo, in what seems rogue police vengeance
A least twenty people were killed and seven injured in a wave of Thursday/Friday overnight shootings in Brazil's biggest city, Sao Paulo, some of them gunned down in cold blood as they sat in a bar.Alexandre de Moraes, head of the Sao Paulo state security department, announced the death tally -- originally placed at 20 -- Friday after media reports of a deliberate massacre in the suburbs, possibly by rogue police. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rules“The murders were shocking even in a country used to runaway violence.
Aug 15th, 2015 - 09:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0“What I can say for sure is that it's the biggest killing this year,” de Moraes said.”
“He said a police link had not been ruled out. ”
What comment do we have from the Brazil Gang?
Interesting. Selective summary executions of known criminals. I wonder if these criminals bought their way out of jail and the Police just did what was necessary?
Aug 15th, 2015 - 10:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Should be interesting to watch how this comes out.
Drug trade, murder of a Police Officer--if the coppers did it, l don't condone murder, but can't say that its not justice.
Aug 15th, 2015 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Olympics anyone?
Aug 15th, 2015 - 11:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0@2. A “considered” approach. Brazil out of money through overextending itself. No money for trials. Therefore....? How about a new Brazilian sport? Sponsored machine pistol fights. Not even an offence. National reconstruction!
Aug 15th, 2015 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BRASSO,
Aug 15th, 2015 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0where are you.. ??
Whats more lethal than Ebola?
Aug 15th, 2015 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A Brazilian cop!
Frankly, as long as the “victims” are guilty of very serious crimes does anybody in the area GAF?
Aug 15th, 2015 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you lived there and had been terrorised by the “victims” wouldn't you be pleased, I know I would.
Olympics anyone?
Aug 15th, 2015 - 06:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One thinks it will be safer in London watching it on TV.
You should never applaud or support vigilante justice by police, otherwise where do you draw the line?
Aug 15th, 2015 - 09:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@10 Skip,
Aug 15th, 2015 - 09:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0l understand your sentiments.
But it would be extremely frustrating to spend a lot of time & resources apprehending some drug pushing, murdering lowlife, then see a judge let him/her go.
Especially if said lowlife was guilty of murdering one of your Police colleagues.
@ 10 Skip
Aug 15th, 2015 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You should never applaud or support vigilante justice by police, otherwise where do you draw the line?”
When all those who are known by the local people to be serious criminals are dead. The locals know who they are and have been abused in some way or another by them.
The police MUST stop then.
@10
Aug 15th, 2015 - 11:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Correct.
And a little perspective (not exactly Owney Madden at the Cotton Club) :
http://g1.globo.com/sao-paulo/noticia/2015/08/criminosos-em-carro-deixam-mortos-e-feridos-em-osasco-dizem-bombeiros.html
So, who decides what is an OK murder or just murder? Surely it is subjective.
Aug 16th, 2015 - 10:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 14 ElaineB
Aug 16th, 2015 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Surely it is subjective”
Consider for a moment someone living in the squalid areas we have all seen on the TV and the local gang enforcer shoots and kills one of your family who has no known criminal connections.
The local people will also be aware of the facts, I can assure you. He would definitely be a contender for the police to eliminate.
My family was poor, we lived in rented Victorian era accommodation until I was about seven and moved to a new council house on a new estate. It was heaven! No petty criminal and thugs to prey on my parents who knew them all. No murders but plenty of grief that we were able to escape.
Now please re-read my post @ 12 and if you still don't understand it I cannot help you further.
@15 Why do you think my post was directed at you? I rarely address you as you are Daily Mail though and through. Small-minded and prejudiced. No help for you.
Aug 16th, 2015 - 01:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For everyone else, my comment was general and in relation to the article.
When the gov't can't provide security citizens have the right and the obligation to do it for themselves.
Aug 16th, 2015 - 02:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When I was living in Argentina I saw an uncountable number of vigilantes on Cronica TV burn down houses, stone people, hang people, etc etc because the neighbors knew who committed the crimes but for one reason or another nothing was done about it.
We have to give a badge of honor to each of these police officers.
Aug 16th, 2015 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0HONOR THE MERIT!
@ 16 ElaineB
Aug 16th, 2015 - 05:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Daily Telegraph actually and the response you have given just proves your lack of worldly experience.
Yes, you have been to some awful places but only as a seagull: you fly in, eat all the food, shit all over the place and then fly out again.
If you had to live in those types of communities just what would YOU do with the murderers in your community? Nothing because you would be powerless as the people who live there are.
At least killing these thugs gives the real people some respite until another bunch spring up.
18 Brassiere
Aug 16th, 2015 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We know the Police are acting outside the Law.
If they are not acting for the Government, who are they working for, a rival drug gang?
@19 How charming, do you speak to all women like that? Probably, you have a filthy mouth.
Aug 16th, 2015 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have no idea what I do or how much time I spend living in such communities. Every post you make is full of hatred and I am heartily grateful they took your guns away from you. You should never have been allowed to have them in the first place.
I don't trust your judgement and fortunately you have no power over anything
So what we have here is criminals in uniform executing alleged criminals, one of whom was a child, but I guess that's OK 'cause, of course, he would've become a criminal himself.
Aug 16th, 2015 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And lots of people, within and without Brazil, unable to distinguish between justice and revenge.
@22 Exactly.
Aug 16th, 2015 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please lets not fight amongst ourselves.
Aug 16th, 2015 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0lts a hard one to know what to do.
We all want to live by & be protected by the law.
But what to do when the law fails you & for one reason or another, refuses to act?
Wheres the line between “taking the law into your own hands” & “citizen's arrest”?
lf l were in the Police & one of my colleagues, while doing his/her duty was murdered in front of me & l caught the person responsible, well, they wouldn't live long.
l understand & sympathise with you ChrisR, but you shouldn't have personally attacked ElaineB.
She has the right to her own opinions(as do you & l).
Peace, brothers & sisters.♥
@ 21 ElaineB
Aug 16th, 2015 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So now you have never heard of the well known American expression of SEAGULL used to describe certain types of visiting Main Board Management? I don't believe that given you claim to spend a fair amount of time in the US and investigate whatever you do for whoever you do it for
What you think of me holding guns is typical of the know-all's who actually know very little about risks from firearm users to the public. The HO were quite happy to appoint me as an independent firearms expert to the Police Forces of England until I retired.
And, as usual you have not answered how YOU would help people held under the thrall of these murderers and having no-one to turn to. Care to advise us?
As you accuse me of using bad language to you as distinct from on this site am I mistaken or did YOU use the 'F' word in one of your posts recently, I think you did!
Bit hypocritical that, don't you think?
@ 22 Heisenbergcontext
“And lots of people, within and without Brazil, unable to distinguish between justice and revenge.”
I think it is a little more involved than that.
You know from your own experience how things can get misunderstood regarding drugs. Put yourself in the position of the poor sods who are routinely threatened with firearms by the plethora of drug gangs in Brazil: they may even witness a killing themselves and they will certainly believe their neighbours that these killings are being done by certain people.
What do YOU suggest the answer is because it certainly isn't arrest and court visits, is it? That would just result in the witnesses being murdered, wouldn't it?
There is one potential problem that no-one has addressed and that is false information to the police about a rival, although given the rival has 'probably' murdered his way to being a rival perhaps it's no great loss?
@25 ChrisR
Aug 17th, 2015 - 07:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0The phrase I used is my interpretation of the motives of the individuals who committed these executions, based on the information in this article and the link provided by the poster @13. Perhaps there are other reasons I am not aware of, but based on the information available to me I think vengeance, not the higher motive of justice, is the most accurate interpretation.
Most of the posts above seem to see this action in the light of law & order vs criminality. I simply see it as the dynamics between two gangs. I also don't believe, for one minute, that this is somehow going to make Brazilian law enforcement officers any safer. It will simply harden attitudes.
I don't know what Brazilians need to do, other that what people in the circumstances you described, in many other parts of world, also have to do. The great Brazilian film, City of God, of which I know you are a fan, is a good template. People raised in such circumstances still have choices - hard choices, but choices nonetheless.
@25 Give it up. You cannot stand that a woman (or 'bitch' to use your favourite word for a woman) has a different view from you. Go and vent your frustration at the failure of your life at someone else. I don't agree with you.
Aug 17th, 2015 - 09:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0@24 It is not 'fighting amongst ourselves' in my opinion. I am not on any team. I completely support the Falkland Islanders right to self-determination and condemn utterly Argentines who believe otherwise. (Though I do have some pity for them having been inculcated in this regard). I also heartily condemn the Argentine government and would love to see the K's brought to justice. Other than that I don't want to be seen as on a team with bigots and small-minded idiots advocating murder. If I support a view I will say so and if I don't I will comment thus.
I do appreciate your sanity and calm words. :)
@ 27 ElaineB
Aug 17th, 2015 - 11:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Still no answer to what you would do to stop the murderers from getting away with murder and terrorising the people of the area then? I am not surprised at that, it would mean you having to think 'bad' things and come to 'dark' decisions for it to be an effective answer.
”You cannot stand that a woman (or 'bitch' to use your favourite word for a woman) has a different view from you.“
Apart from 'TMBOA' which of course has the word 'bitch' in it which accurately describes the woman I cannot remember using the term outside of the argie government and I have most certainly never used it with you.
”Go and vent your frustration at the failure of your life at someone else.”
How can a person from a very poor beginning rise to be a director of a major UK company through working hard at school and working hard AND smart during his career and progressing to having a number of businesses over 25 years which kept his family very comfortably off and finally retired to a place which suits his wife's health perfectly consider his life a failure? It's one thing to be (laughingly) accused of having a 'small' mind and another to have a closed mind as yours has become when MEN disagree with you.
But we know what the trouble is don't we? What happened to the ElaineB who reacted with laughter when, during a topic on the sexes I posted 'does the B stand for 'busty' :o)? I am in my fifth year of posting on here and in that time you have altered considerably in you attitude to me and others. Perhaps you might want to consider that and your responsibility for it?
“I don't agree with you.”
Fine, not many people want to face reality, it frightens them for a start whereas I have lived through a number of problems with the communities around where I have lived brought about by various moves related to my career progression. I know first hand you have to deal with the facts not some cosy view of what you want them to be, that will just result in grief for everyone.
@28 I don't agree with your 'reality'.
Aug 17th, 2015 - 12:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For your information I face the reality, the dark and the bad more often than most in my line of work. I doubt you do, though I am sure in your mind you think you do.
I have listened to you become more bitter and twisted. I don't like your character or your beliefs. I certainly will not agree with you just because you have the arrogance to think you have the answers. You don't.
BTW you use 'bitch' a lot. Check yourself. That you don't understand the difference between banter and calling women bitches says a lot about you.
You can disagree with me all you like, that's what happens in a debate. In fact, live it up because your posts reveal the true nature of your character and it is not at all attractive. I have wasted enough time on you.
@ 29 ElaineB
Aug 17th, 2015 - 12:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Another 'no answer' then?
You really believe this the fancy claims you put on here, don't you.
Apart from flying First or Club class to your destinations what is it that you actually achieve for the poor sods that you audit?
Does anything happen when you put your report in to your company who appears to be contracted to the MF, WB and the other 'back slapping' organisations? Anything positive ever?
Given you will not betray yourself to answer a real question I would be amazed if anything ever did.
@30 Like everything else you post, you are completely wrong about me and the work I do. I think, old man, you spend more time than is healthy thinking about me. Eewww.
Aug 17th, 2015 - 12:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 31 ElaineB
Aug 17th, 2015 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ I think, old man, you spend more time than is healthy thinking about me.”
Well, you got the old man bit right! :0)
confirmed criminals killed?
Aug 20th, 2015 - 12:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0sounds cool to me.
Me too.
Aug 20th, 2015 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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